Man I really shoulda yapped more lmaooo. Thanks for inviting me to be a part of this, Rinon. May our prayers finally be heard in the year 2030 or something.
I only just picked up dancer this expac, and literally I was thinking the same thing. I actively dislike the ability BECAUSE it fills the gauge. If they don’t change it to a proc, they should just remove it. It’s simply annoying
The funny thing is how brain-dead easy it is to actually balance in this game for greedy jobs. People can spread-sheet out exact Potency-Per-Minute caluclations of how much MCH can pump in 1, 2, 4, 6, 10 minute fights and factor in battery, etc. Okay so a MCH puts out 6500 potency a minute, and it is 10% behind a samurai. You want MCH to be about 2% under the samurai, which requires increasing the potency per minute by 520. Okay so let's add 60 potency to drill, anchor, chainsaw, and 20 to this and this and this. This is a simplified example, but these minor-ass changes could be shot through a minor update, they don't need to wait until 7.1 or 7.15, they just choose to do so because they are allowed to be this complacent in their work ethic.
@@xeno942 But the expectation is that they do, however. A job with no buffs the party can utilize should at least be able to compensate for the loss of increased party DPS by doing higher personal DPS. A job with no party utility that doesn't bring anything else to the table that the other jobs can't do, and are better at the things it can do, is simply put a badly designed job.
@@xeno942 Are you serious? How does it make any sense for a job who offer nothing but pure DPS to do less damage than the DPS job that come with party utility? Nobody is saying their DPS should be substantially better. Just that they need to do more damage or offer something to the group, otherwise it make no sense for MCH to be a greedy dps because currently it is just bad DPS.
@@Newbtuber they specifically said rdps. In a perfect world selfish jobs should do massively more adps than buff jobs, while the latter should crush rdps charts. Unfortunately with current design that would mean cramming even more potency into the 2m exclusively because uptime managed buffs or more frequent windows don't exist anymore aside from Bards passive song buffs which are pretty negligible and don't really add anything to gameplay.
Stal's tillana rant LMAO preach it sister all my homies hate new tillana! Making it a saber dance/dotd ready buff would be so much nicer than 50 gauge outright for sure Great vid as always Rinon, I enjoyed hearing opinions from top phys ranged players as a phys ranged main myself. My hope is for more "phys ranged mechanics" that require movement away from the boss etc to give us more reason to be there than 1% :D
As a dancer main, I absolutely HATE the tillana change. “Oh what’s that? Your partner is feeding you a crap ton of esprit for 2min? “OH WHATS THAT??? YOU OVERCAPPED?? LMAO SUCKS FOR YOU, FEEL BAD NOW EVEN THOUGH YOU DID NOTHING WRONG GET PUNISHED IDIOT” like part of me doesnt wanna tillana during 2 minute especially if my partner is going sicko mode and feeding me hella hard but then there’s an issue of “oh shit you need to hit tillana cause of raid buffs“BUT YOUR ESPIRIT GAUGE IS FULL AND YOULL FREAKING OVERCAP” i absolutely hate it here. If anything i would love to see it just give a ‘dance of the dawn ready’ proc like how they changed reaper and machinist’s, gauge buttons just…MAN…
I legit don't understand why it was changed anyway. And to that of all things. Every other class had their gauge fill button turned into a proc ready function "to help players against over capping." And then they looked at dancers and went "AND YOU GET OVERCAPPING THAT WASN'T THERE BEFORE!" Why? What was wrong with it giving you finishing step? It made the opener so much easier and it legit took me a few cycles to realize that change. So now you are want to do standard step pre-pull so you can hit technical step at the pull and get everyone going including your partner for their opener burst. Previously, you could handle both with technical which you could pre-dance and then unleash at go.
I'm not a dancer main, but I've been gearing dancer over the past 3 weeks and I knew something felt bad about it and trying so hard to squeeze every saber dance I could into my 2 minute window while my buttons lit up like a Christmas tree and feeling like a failure. So, that explains that.
they forget the changes they make to old design while making new designs. They forget they got rid off leaden fist on Monk, and gave 2 leaden fists for Vipers. They forgot they made gauge gainers just make the combo/button available and introduce a new gauge gainer. It's really like 2 different teams working on it
I agree with Stal. Square Enix should just embrace the _support_ part of the PhysRange role's job. Make the buffs PhysRange are supposed to give stronger than the melee buffs. Make the role just as essential as a healer or tank.
as a bard main: I do really feel like making Ranged DPS more support focussed by putting their importance more on buffs/debuffs could really give the Ranged DPS bracket something to make them feel special and meaningful. I might be biased because I do really feel like it fits well with bard style wise as well, but it could really give them something to call their own. I feel most satisfied on a bard run when I manage to optimally use my raid-wide mits, healing buffs, peon(bard esuna) and even properly using peleton.
If they lowered the cooldown on Head Graze from 30s to something like 10s then they can add quite a few interrupts to fights, giving phys ranged more utility. They can even keep interject on tanks, but keep the 30 second cooldown so phys ranged is needed in theoretical interrupt-heavy sections.
But then there's the issue of not always having a Phys Ranged, and also forcing a certain style of comp because of needing more interrupts. It's not a good idea
Stal's Tillana change rant is so real... I always die inside whenever my opener grants me 80 gauge before I press Tillana... please squenix make it a dotd/Saber Dance ready
DOTD ready is already granted by Technical finish Just make Tillana grant a buff that makes your next esprit spender cost no esprit. So your DOTD would be free in burst. There's no need for it to grant 50 gauge, the amount of times I've overcapped because I've entered burst with high esprit due to no fault of my own feels bad
As a BRD main I wish I felt more... supportive? When I was brand new I was sold on the idea of doing okay damage while helping boost my allies and while that technically happens, it's all in the background and doesn't feel like I'm actually helping. You can't really feel the difference a 1% damage buff gives the party, it feels like a rounding error. Troubadour can occasionally feel clutch, but mostly you can forget it and do fine outside of highly specific scenarios. Minne is in there as well. At least DNC has some healing, the standard mit, and Improv during downtime or to flash a regen. I think personally I'd prefer more active, noticeable support. Heck, give BRD a raise. They will never do it, but give it like a super long cooldown raise or a 10,000 MP raise and it might actually see some use.
Bard has a lot of support tools. Troubador is an unaspected 10% DR, making is more versatile than Feint and Addle. With coordination, Nature's Minne can make HoTs and Shields notably more potent. In lower end content, The Warden's Paean can save lives, or at the very least take some stress off of healers. The buffs from the songs and Radiant are actually quite significant, however it comes at the cost of bard's raw damage output. If your party is doing a significant amount of adps, and you're in sync with them, your buffs will give you a crazy amount of rdps (up to like 7k at the ceiling right now.) The issue is that even the best performing, most geared bard will not make up that damage in place of simply bringing an median melee or picto, and worse yet, if your party is not doing a lot of adps, your damage will be closer to your dismal adps. I think the primary buff that bard needs is for Minuet to have a significant personal crit buff, as this would significantly improve damage when under Army's Muse, which is when you're probably bursting: more probably criting (and CDHing,) the big hitters would probably make bringing bard more forgiving. For support skills, I think making Nature's Minne have a 90s cooldown (or giving it a weak HoT) would be more than enough.
@@drahsid2 Troubadour is basically shared by the other two Physical Ranged job and also overwrites them so that's not unique to BRD. Minne is a unique skill, but as I said, outside of very high end content can feel pretty extra (I think this is mentioned by one of the contributors in videos). Warden's Paean barely matters, until it does, but actual debuffs that need cleansing are honestly quite rare. Meanwhile, the other Phys Ranged unique utilities feel better to use. Dismantle is just more mit, it is always welcome. Curing Waltz, when stacked, can heal for an okay amount. Improv is kinda weak, but the HoT is absolutely free, and the tiny shield is at least something. One third of BRD's utility kit is basically never used unless a fight has a debuff that is scary, which is rare. I'd appreciate maybe Paean having a secondary effect, maybe a HoT, or even a small shield, to make it a button you would actually want to press. Minne having a HoT is honestly something I've suggested before, it seems like a no-brainer. As for the songs, yeah, they're good, after a fight, where you see the damage breakdown and see how they helped boost damage, but they just don't feel like they do a lot in the moment. You just sort of tell yourself "I'm contributing!" and hope your party are good enough to make use of that 1% damage boost.
@@formy52 My point about troubadour was it was more versatile than the other roles, not that if was unique within phys range haha. I'm not really sure support can be particularly useful outside of high end content, because low end content is designed to be trivial (which makes Warden's Paean's existence feel kinda awful, since high end fights usually don't have debuffs it can cleanse.) I think something that might make Warden's Paean a single-hit DR (similar to how the debuff imunity lasts until a debuff lands,) or a HoT as you suggested would make it much less of a waste. As for the songs, party-wide they do feel pretty weak in the moment (and are admittedly weak unless you have a very good party,) I'm not sure there's a particularly good solution to that which won't either make bard entirely beholden to the party, or make bard damage so strong that the rdps isn't important- though as I mentioned before, I do think bard damage should be higher.
@@drahsid2 Fair fair, the Troubadour/Tactical/Samba mitigation button is arguably the Phys Ranged best feature, before the 1% party bonus. Yeah the songs are an interesting balance problem. I actually like the idea of the songs providing some kind of specific self-buff to the BRD. As you say, a BRD lives or dies by their party also performing well. As for the rest of it, it's just fight design, which is more of a baked in problem supports face. They certainly *could* make debuffs and DoTs appear more often, but they don't. So Paean continues to gather dust. The few times it is helpful though, I do feel joy though, love finding a use case here or there.
As someone who cleared on MCH, just everything Serenaya said. I feel the depression in their voice in my bones. Autocrossbow not reducing cd like heatblast feels bad. Flamethrower is useless. Being at the bottom of every DPS list ever with a substantial gap between us and the 2nd worst is depressing. But at least I have my wrench back. At this point Ive given up on ever expecting a selfish phys range to be competitive. Just give me a 2min buff like everyone else I guess.
Very interesting video and the guests' input was very meaningful and on point. I think Surana's idea of adding more interrupts is definitely a very good way to increase the responsibility and make Prange feel more rewarding - kind of in the style of WoW where precise interrupts were extremely important for many fights. That being said it might have to be on a shorter CD or have it removed from tanks so that there are limited interrupt resources available. Additionally adding Prange-oriented mechanics like liquid hell is definitely another way to make the role more meaningful. Obviously Tillana is currently busted because it makes players feel punished for doing nothing wrong. Lastly the person that said make peloton usable in combat and on a long CD deserves a medal for originality - that is such a brilliant idea that can make Prange players feel needed and not just for the 1%.
I think you can do both. Interrups and baiting. Without changing the cd for it. However you can't do interrupts by removing tanks. Because then your there as an interrupt bot plus 1%. That alone is probably not the best execution. Better done by interrupts being asked during tank swap and buster sequences. When their ogcd are very active. Or some engaging tank mechanic. Where they can technically still do it, bit better for physical ranged there. Removing tanks and only ranged phys for interrupts. Runs into the issue of a dead ranged phys possibly causing an auto wipe. Lots of stress. Where having others still capable but suboptimal would likely be better. An add phase maybe. Or boss jumping across the room the casting etc. Where technically tanks can still do it. But it's very tight timing vs phys ranged getting it immediately
My FFXIV buddy and I were theory crafting a Phys Range with a Blitzball inspired weapon to give a nod to FFX in the same way Gunbreaker and Viper have been homages to FFVIII and FFIX.
i think yoship said "NO!" to blitzball, so probs no hope for the 8.0 phys ranged, but maybe in 6-8 years by the time the next one releases they change their mind?
@@pitta3114 i mean, i think it's self-evident that when he says "no blitzball," he's talking about the mini-game, i don't see any good or rational reason that that should somehow bar any possibility of a blitzball-THEMED job a la wakka for the future, maybe they could incorporate his reels into it somehow
Throw caution to the wind w/ Mch. Crank its dmg up to Bard levels during early months of ARR after the relaunch. Maybe give the job close/far positional like its PvP counterpart. Its main combo and certain oGCDs /‘tools’ do more dmg when standing at/beyond a certain range. Agree w/ adding more mechanics in fights that need ‘long range’ interrupts to comfortably deal with as well. If not ‘long range’ maybe frequent mechanics requiring alternating interrupts. Maybe reintroduce mechanics/adds that can/ need to be slowed w/ heavy (but immune to stuns) effect as well.
Im not a fan of the damage crank (phys ranged feels better as support with a focuses in party mits, movement (give Dancer summoners mid fight speedup ability), esuna, and minor healing). On the other hand having close and far positionals could be an interesting thing to experiment with Drill and Excavator doing more damage at close range just makes sense as well as Air Anchor at longer ranges. Biggest hurdles would be how to create another indicator on the boss ring for such positionals and convincing SE to even try it since they seem to be not happy with doing such a thing if we look at what they wanted to do with Viper. Edit: Speaking of Viper we already kinda do have a non required range positional for the class in Uncoiled Fury regularly being saved for boss disconnects. Maybe somewhere in that spaghetti code they can reverse the range meter and make it so you CANT use skills within a certain range
Me: "Please don't make another prng job until you can make the existing ones meaningful." ~~ I didn't ask for a 4th scoop of sardine flavored ice cream.
@@RinBananaI'll settle with it being the expansion for literally anyone. That's already an Everest-sized bar to pass judging by DT's shenanigans or lack thereof.
I don't know how the algorithm knew I needed to hear two top level Range Phys players say it feels like the role is just +1% but I am so glad it it did. I really hope they hold off on making a fourth Phys range until they prove to us they can make the current three feel like they deserve to still be in the game. It's my favorite role because I love the pew pew lyfe on principal, but it's been depression pews since 5.0
I think a change that could help is a role action unique to range phys, that functions similarly to Addle and Feint, where instead of mitigation it increases the damage a target takes by a percentage, this could help with giving ranged more supportive tools while also giving it a bit more of an identity than it has
As a healer main who has been very vocal about healer's current problems, just shy of striking, I look on phys ranged with pity. Like yeah we're in a rough spot, but they just can't catch a break.
As a DNC main myself - I 110% agree with what Stal is saying about Tillana - It's current functionality is unbelievably bad and needs to be changed asap. Making it grant 50 gauge has to be one of the most lazy, zero thought changes they could of made to the job. If your group is doing well and you're unlucky to go into burst with > 50 or esprit procs put you > 50, enjoy overcapping through no fault of your own. They went and took +50 gauge granting from MCH and RPR only to go and say "Hey, lets give the mechanic to Dancer!" All they have to do make Tillana grant a buff for say 30 seconds called Saber Dance Ready that does the following - "Your next Esprit spender will cost no Esprit." It would be used on DOTD anyway and remove the annoying uncontrollable overcap issue. Also, why does Finishing Move take an eternity for it's damage and animation to go off.
As a bard main I just want to feel like an actual DPS 😅 Overall I’d love more mechanical responsibilities, I think the freedom of movement and range phys range has is very under-utilized in the current tier Love the vid! Thank you for making it! Hope you feel better soon
i been needing this as i recently went from being a healer main to purely playing Dancer and i am loving every second of it, and i plan to master machinist and bard too!! so this video is helpful for someone like me who is currently learning more about being a phys ranged main, thank you for uploading this at such a perfect timing! :D
There is one thing that can be added to phys range, even though it may lead to a complete chaos in encounter dances and positions...and it is something both Monster Hunter and FFXI do with their range weapons, and it is a sweet spot range, where you deal the most damage at a specific range of distance from the target and the farther you are from that range, the damage drop-off, maybe having that in FF14, and having some attacks that ignore that distance sweet spot, you could have that sweet spot as a reason to close the damage profile gap of range phys and melee dps.
Something that I think none of the experts focused on (understandably) is that I think this role in particular has received very little in the way of new systems or mechanics that actively change how the job plays in a significant way in YEARS. Obviously their new additions change how their burst window looks, and changes to song balance can change how long you stay in each song on Bard, but there hasn't been an extra layer added to any of these jobs for ages. Summoner is obviously worse, where they get one new button to press during burst and that's it, and to a certain extent that same argument can be extended to a lot of other jobs this expansion as well. But from the outside looking in it seemed like most of the changes for the phsyranged role this expansion were...another follow-up attack to use in burst or something. Anecdotally, I've had trouble filling PF groups because of a missing physranged about as often as I've struggled to fill them because of a tank or a healer, maybe even more. But every time I consider trying the role I just get bored out of my mind because it feels like there aren't enough systems at play compared to other roles. Really hope 8.0 gives us big, meaningful NEW additions to all jobs, but especially phsyranged, on the level of how much was added to jobs going into Stormblood where tons of jobs got new systems or resources to manage.
I'm a DNC main and I agree with Stal's point of Tillana. The constant thought of potential overcapping feels bad. due to also, we can't control the Espirit generated during the burst and Dance Partner. If they make it like the next Saber Dance/DoTD be able to be cast at no cost instead that be great. NGL the moment Stal talked about Tillana I laughed >
Combat pelotons, more precise short window interrupts, and perhaps even use of the bind/heavy role actions on something like an add moving from arena's edge to buff the boss that requires coordinated burst to take down, but with bind/heavy it slows it down and lengthens the window for killing it. There's a lot of unexplored design space for mechanics that would use bind/heavy and I'm keen to see Squeenix make those actions useful.
One thing that wasn't really mentioned in the video was that tanks being so strong supportively also minimizes anything that phys range can do. It seems that most of the problems with the role isnt the role itself, but everything else like fight design and other jobs encroaching on what phys range are supposed to do
I really appreciated Surana's input, and I hope you have him back in other videos. He took the matter seriously and put thought into his answers ahead of time, and thus had interesting responses that were communicated effectively. He also refrained from whining, which I definitely appreciated.
For the speculated class: In Endwalker, Admiral Merlwyb has dual pistols. It came complete with animations. The base stance for Rogue was available much earlier with Thancred in his stabby days. So my take is that Merlwyb was the smoke signal for where the RDPS is headed.
I see them this way: MCH is pure DPS. DNC is damage buffs for the party but majorly for the partner and, done well, a red healer for the party. Bard is in the middle with its variety of damage buffs and DOT playstyle. A new phys range should maybe focus on having more defensive capabilities beyond the typical Troubadour ability, or some other gimmick that gives it a unique definition in the role. (And maybe give DNC even more healing or DP abilities to further define it?)
Yeah, i always wanted this idea to be taken seriously, but a big part of the community hates the idea of hybrid jobs (I can't understand why). Just make phys ranged more supp, and make healers a bit more dps (you don't need to have 10 different healing skills, just make it like sage, but a bit more further). This would open up a new way of playing the game, like the proper rework that we deserved on 7.0.
I feel the need to clarify for Bard songs (4:29) , you do still have to be in combat to use songs, you just don't need to be directly targeting an enemy anymore
se hates doing risky things and changing up the formula. I wish they were more willing to make decisions people could potentially dislike like what you mentioned.
From someone that started playing BRD on TEA, cleared TEA, Ucob, Asphodelos and had to change for DSR to DNC because the job was too weak for the fight, I just hope 8.0 makes playing phys ranged more... rewarding, I always though the idea of Bowmage scary but I agree with Stal now, bring Bowmage back, I think the class would be more challenging instead of just "Fine get your 1% increased damage and be happy" in the meantime, I'll play some other class (Trying Tank for the first time and feels great!) I'm really sad class boy doesnt feel like... a star a behind the curtains, pulling the strings and stuff, it just feel like I'm the other dps that exists for extra mit and raid buff.
As someone who played through bowmage to the point it made me quit please never wish that horror upon the game again x~x. Bowmage turned off auto attacks, created inconsistent weave windows on a class that has Empyreal arrow, Sidewinder, 3 charges of Bloodletter/heartbreak shot, Raging strikes, Radiant finale, Barrage, Battle Voice and 1 of the songs (probably WM which would also add pitch perfect to the list of oGCDs needing to be pressed) that needs to be put on cooldown in the opener and then kept on cooldown for the whole fight unless stocking up 3 bloodletters/heartbreak shots which would then create a mess on the two minute burst. Why would it cause a mess? because the only way to get a full GCD to double weave consistently (or triple weave if ping allowed it) was procing straight shot/refulgent arrow, otherwise you were locked into a 1.5 second cast bar. This meant at most you could only reliably weave 1 oGCD between GCDs and even then if you had any amount of ping you would then drift your GCD. Could they have designed it in a way that worked? Possibly. Do I trust the development team that decided to remove noxious gnash from viper despite the fact it was designed around the debuff existing to create interesting play for the class and create a cohesive engaging rotation to not mess up on making bowmage actually fun, engaging and playable? No No I don't, because when they first implemented it it was at the time when bloodletter fully reset and had no charges while also having 2 other oGCDs as well. Imho Bowmage was the single worst design choice the dev team has ever placed within this game and the fact that it took them an entire expansion before they removed it still leaves me feeling resentful for its inclusion to this day.
Yeah, I mostly agree that other than balance questions the jobs themselves aren't necessarily bad. It's more that they don't really have a purpose when it comes to fight design. More interrupts, more movement required, maybe even needing to use slows or binds, etc. And some form of combat peleton.
If I was to start taking a specific job into the current raid tier, I’d go with Bard. It’s always been my favorite ranged and the changes that came with Dawntrail have been some fantastic quality of life. I am not sure what to expect from 8.0 in terms of a new physical ranged or how I feel they should go into said next expansion, mostly due to the fact that a lot of that was covered in this video, but I hope that they all receive good cheered and more people start picking up the role regularly. Also I’m sorry to hear that you were so sick Rinon, I hope that it’s entirely passed now. This was a good video, and it’s given me a better appreciation for the phys ranged role.
I agree with the statement that it's mostly the fight design that needs to change, not the job design. Not that the jobs themselves don't need changing, but I think that figuring out how to work with what's already there should come before adding new things. As for a new phys ranged, I think a job that pushes a massive ballista or cannon on a cart is a cool idea. Call it "artillerist" or something, and it would focus on much slower gameplay, sorta like an equivalent to black mage, maybe along with more defensives and party mitigation. I also just think the mental image of a lalafell pushing around a cannon five times their size is really fun.
For me id love a whip user--a sort of 'mid-range' (somewhere between melee and full range dps) or alternatively a mad scientist/alchemist with debuff bomb-type things. With cannon cart id worry about it sort of leaning too far into mch in terms of identity. whip is its own thing and alchemist with weird looking/suped up potion bottles would be fun!
"no matter how much I may hate the class, if it uses a bow or xbow I will play it" this completely resonates with me. i LOVE all things bows and always look for an angle to do something related to archer in literally every single game I play.
As a dancer main who started raiding at Endwalker launch and has raided every tier since, none of these conclusions about 'existing for the 1% party buff' or 'missing a purpose' is brought about by comparing the role to what it used to be versus what it is now; I, and I'm sure every other phys ranged main who started with this modern phys ranged design, quickly came to notice how I'm the least important person in the group. The biggest thing thats kept me sane playing the role this long has been adding value to myself through any external responsibilities I can: making call outs, simplifying mechanics, keeping a clear view of the arena to review clips, whatever you can think of really. But end of the day, it doesn't change the feeling like you could be doing so much more playing anything else, but we can't possibly abandon the 1% party buff. I frequently find myself in the position across multiple statics where I am playing phys ranged, and feel TRAPPED in phys ranged, because I know how to play it, and, if I were to switch to something else, its highly unlikely my replacement will match what I brought in the role. The overwhelming majority of phys ranged players are frankly not very good and often newer players hopeful to contribute best they can as their favorite jobs (just like where I and everyone else like me came from) who havn't hit that reality yet that they don't really bring anything to the table. Once that sinks in, people either move to other roles, move to other games maybe idk, or keep themselves in this phys ranged prison they've walked themselves into.
I agree with all of them tbh. As a pranged main I feel like I'm just there to fill a slot. The only momments I can think of that actually felt good being a pranged is baiting liquid hell in UCoB and interrupting in p1 of DSR. SE needs to introduce more baits and interrupts like that
As DNC main I understand the tilana rant, I just usually empty my gauge before my 2mn window (or if I somehow get past 50 before I'm supposed to click it I adapt) but during the opener it can be so annoying sometimes yeah. My one complaint is that I kind of wish last dance would grant us a guaranteed feather just so I can weave in an extra skill after using it, sometimes it feels a bit clunky. And I really hope we get buffs on our support abilities. It's exhausting seeing my pictomancer being ahead of me in hps just with their star prism. Improv needs a rework, it's good in down phases but otherwise the 3s cooldown makes you lose a gcd if you want the Shield so I tend to just click it for the group regen and it just feels so weak for a 2mn cooldown I wouldnt care if dancer did even less dps if we had incredible support tools, but at the moment it just feels sort of weak, besides the partner ofc.
Revert Tillana to 1.5 seconds and give it DotD-ready or something like it. It'd completely change the burst, likely more towards an enhanced Endwalker burst, where you can go into your burst hoarding Esprit and Feathers, and just dump EVERYTHING during that window. An enhanced Endwalker burst window would be PERFECT, the job's only flaw during Endwalker was bursts being 10 seconds of Ninja-tier weaving, then 10 seconds of Summoner-tier gameplay.
I remember in Second Coil where a bard was a must to do the cyclops tether thing properly. I wish I had some kind of special thing that I could do. Also, while I personally didn't play physical ranged in Heavensward (I arguably chose less suffering as a healer), I think something really cool would be to bring immobility back. For example, if dancer had some leylines mechanic where choosing where to drop your "stage" increased your esprit generation for you and your partner; or if bard had Foe's Requiem back, but couldn't move while singing (we don't use our MP anyway); or if machinist could actually increase their damage output by selectively setting up a bunker zone to do more damage. I mostly agree with everything here, something to feel like I shouldn't just go back to playing melee or something.
Leaning into the mobility aspect of phys range from a fight design standpoint is personally where I'd like to see the devs take the role. just having mechanics that everyone does but the ranged jobs are away from the boss isn't enough. Mechanics that can be baited and require freedom of movement while also requiring disengagement from the boss would be more in line. a decent example of this is the eruptions during Ifrit nails in UWU, or even something as simple as the aoe in Cloud of Darkness that forces one random player to run a lap at the start of the fight.
from a midcore mch enjoyer perspective. something i've been thinking about lately is splitting the role into two "types" of physranged. much like how we have shield vs regen healers and res vs no-res casters, support physranged vs pure damage physranged might just go a long way. lean HARD into support for bard and dancer, give them more heals and mits, design fights better around them being able to use interrupts and bard's esuna, so on and so forth. make them able to save a bad pull the way a chain-rezzing rdm can if they pull out their entire kit, make the healers for heal-heavy fights or mechanics like in m3s or p10s say, "oh, thank god, a bard". then take mch, maybe pair it with a new damage-centric physranged in 8.0, and make it a category of its own. let it lose a little mobility, even - bring in the walking castbars from PVP for some skills, maybe give mch a long-cast, high-damage cooldown "snipe" skill it needs to stay still for and hardcast, i don't really care. just whatever the dev team needs to justify in their minds giving it the same level of damage as other selfish dps. this hypothetical 8.0 damage physranged doesn't have to be anything special on its own, just any generic dps with a normal amount of damage and probably the standard raid buff, probably also featuring very slightly less mobility than dnc and brd. just something to match mch, since the devs seem to like having things equal in roles with an informal split.
Yeah Blitzball would be a fantastic addition to Phys Ranged. Like Wakkas whole thing is applying debuffs to enemies which would fufill the final support structure each job seems to focus on. MCH uses mits, BRD likes Esuna (and i wouldnt say no to minor healing), DNC is all about party buffing, and having Blitzball be about debuffing the enemy just fits. Imagine being able to cast slow to decrease a bosses auto attack on MT, Scan increases damage taken on boss (kinda like Ninjas trick attack and mug), Immobolize for those weird moments when you want the boss to sit still but MT is being forced to move around. And the most fascinating one to play with, specific to FFX, Delay which would increase a bosses cast bar. That would be a unique skill that would be useful in raids for some mechanics especially in Ultimates where a single half second fix error in position is catastrophic. (This of course would be on a massive cooldown along the lines of 180s or even a Tanks emergency button 5 minute cooldown) Theres A LOT of debuffs throughout the years they could search through and having Blitzball be a job that focuses on addressing those minor annoyances and hiccups when moving the boss or having those moments where a healer needs to focus on another player. Blitzball should be a Job that can give the slightest breathing room for those mechanics that keep wiping parties. To get back control of a fight youre losing
I like that they've been creating more original jobs in recent expansions so I'd like to see that continue with whatever new Phys Ranged they release next. Personally, I came up with a pitch for a circus-themed job called Ringmaster, which uses a whip and performs feats of acrobatics like trapezes, tightropes, and so on, while also commanding certain "tamed" monsters in a similar manner to a physical Summoner. Also make Tillana give a free Saber Dance instead of gauge, what were they smoking???
If there is gonna be a new ranged job, I think it would be cool to see something like a physical ranged red mage (having a melee phase once in a while). Square somehow managed to get one of my favorite weapon types into the game once before, what if they did it again with a shrotsword and gun combo for a class (I'm coining the term Duelist).
I could see them going with a crossbow-using job as the next Phys Ranged, probably something like Hunter who’s like Bard’s angry brother. But on some level I want them to make a job that uses a Blitzball, using “shot” single-target and “pass” multi-target skills building up an “offensive pressure” gauge for big-damage hits and buffing the party with a “team spirit” gauge. Also they’d get two defensive buffs, a single-target one called “Man-to-Man Defense” and a group one called “Zone Defense” (their version of Troubadour/Tactician/Shield Samba). Basically a big excuse to reference Wakka and make a bunch of sports references in attack names…and maybe throw the peeps who want a Blitzball minigame in the Gold Saucer a bone.
I think it would be interesting if they split dps identity in the sense that Phys ranged would be the consistent dps not based around burst. We could retain burst raid buffs, but have them not affect the job itself. This would make them excel at fights with difficult two minute bursts (or ones that end early) while retaining their ability to buff the party during their two minutes.
I've always been drawn to the support dps playstyle in other mmos, so I've been thinking about picking up phys ranged as a secondary role since caster is, uh, a bit competitive right now. I've been having fun leveling them all, but this was a really interesting perspective to hear. I agree with Surana though, I'd love a proper gunslinger style phys ranged. Merlwyb's had pistols for ages, let us have them too!
I'd really like to bring back phys ranged having cast times and doing about as much damage as casters from HW. As for new jobs I think it'd be really funny to bring chemist in as like a more supportive option, throwing buff potions at allies and hazerdous materials at enemies
My hope for a fourth Phys-Range would be Gunner(Sniper). Utility should maybe be different ammo types. NO TOOLS! I really just want to have a sniper (semi or bolt) as a main arm.
Tilana being 2.5 is just a matter of adjusting to the rotation again, but it giving 50 gauge is messy due to how random the gauge generation can be, sometimes you just quickly overcap. Also Serenaya is 100% on point about MCH and the role in general. A new phys.range option in 8.0 will be fun especially if they work on the current issues of the role, personally I hope its a blitzballer but it seems unlikely lmao
An "alchemist" job archetype would be neat imo, mixing brews on the battlefield to throw at allies to buff them and yourself would probably fit nicely into the melee ranged DPS niche. I'd say it'd be an interesting rework path for MCH and would lean well into the mad scientist with a gun aspect, but I feel like people would scream bloody murder if they tried to make MCH not a greedy DPS.
I think it'd feel nice for the role to have some utility that would allow for unique strats without being required, like a strong and unique mobility tool
I have two ideas for new phys ranged classes. The first would be a buccaneer that mainly shoots pistols, but can dash in for sword attacks (yes, i know this is just a reskinned red mage. Let me have my fun). The other idea is a grenadier that throws or launches bombs. No idea what the "weapon" would be for that one though.
10:14 phys range right now doesn't really have "their thing", I think that they should "buff" the mits that they have (by either buffing troubadour and the other two by adding a charge or add a new, shorter but weaker mit with like a 50s cooldown). Buffing their mits would make them feel more support focused but it's probably not enough to make them feel uniquely outside of "I can walk everywhere". Tbh I'm okay with phys ranged doing less dps than melees but the difference being 10% really makes them feel weak compared to the rest of the jobs, of course you could buff their potencies but it won't make them really unique, that's why I think they should add back long cooldown with a weird cooldown like 5 minutes, right now every job burst every 2 minute and having a cooldown that you would either use ASAP to get another use (or use and let the buffs it gives you tick for like 27s before using it in buff window) would be nice and make them feel more special. This is just a quick idea that passed by but it could be something along the line of: - MCH, reduce the cooldown of wildfire by 15s if a weaponskill is used by someone else, if 8 people used a weaponskill instead grants wildfire ready - DNC, grants a buff to you and your dance partners that guarantees direct hit - BRD, stacks the 3 songs effect and, like monk, allow you to overcap without losing charges on heartbreak shot and pitch perfect, effect cannot stack with army's muse (so you'd use that before going to wanderer's minuet and gain the 30s buff from quitting army's muse) I think a longer cooldown where you might hold it or use it on cooldown depending on the fight is enough to make them feel truly unique and different in a meta where the longest ability that is a DPS gain is dissipation on sch for more energy drain :')
So I was looking through my old Deltascape (Savage) logs the other day (the only tier i've actually raided), and reminiscing with a friend about it, when I came across an O3S run I didn't remember doing at all. (I was subbing for that friend's static. I think.) The friend pointed out to me that our AST in that run was now one of the top phys ranged players in the world, and now I see Surana in this video and it's sort of surreal. So a quick shoutout to Surana for not being like the AST in my own static, and standing in my clock spot every single first sword waltz and making us take four hours to reclear O3S every week. Sigh.
I'm hopeful that the next phys ranged takes inspiration from Setzer in FF6 and uses something like a magic deck of cards, or a real gunslinger with quickdraw type of animations.
As a dancer main and who also plays Bard and much i have to agree with all 3 people. Also, hearing Stal go off on Tillana had me laughing so hard and crazy thing is, I agree with everything she said 😂😂
How about some reasons to press foot graze and leg graze? There's 2 phys ranged role actions in the game that are going woefully unused. I think the heavy could be used in E8S adds and beyond that I can't from the top of my head even remember any instance of either of them ever getting pressed.
I'm a bard main, and I love the new changes. Especially what happened in Endwalker where we can finally hear our Battle Voice, etc. That was so dumb that the Bard couldn't hear our songs. It's hilarious. For a new job, I have no idea what it could or should be.
The things that Physical Ranged DPS classes that the others don't is Peloton. Speeds up dungeons... Otherwise, they can also put out good damage consistently at range while constantly moving. A lot of the bosses have AOE's the force everyone to move and often out of melee range. Other classes then need to use their weaker 1 or 2 ranged skills until they can get back into melee range. Phys Ranged DPS don't need to worry about that. There's not really anything else I can say to defend this role. Lol. For 8.0 I really want a Blitzer job. Aesthetically it can have active/sporty/islander type gear. Give us a blitz ball that we can shoot/throw at ranged. Add a mechanic that allows us to enchant our ball with different elements that add higher damage and DOTs to our attacks for a period of time. Perhaps also give it a skill that has you lock on to a target, and all direct hit damage to that target is increased. Or all attacks to that target are guaranteed Critical Hits for 10 seconds or something. Give it Scouting gear to set it apart from the other physical ranged DPS jobs.
Bard main here. I feel like I agree with most things said. New bard is great, my burst feels less thrown together and more effective. But I am very frustrated about the role having basically no unique job. Yes, trouba can be important in critical situations when people are undergeared, but I would like something that only a phys range can to in Savage raids. Something where we would shine. I often think of the UWU LBs and how the physrange lb is only good for adds. Maybe something could be done with that, Armys Paeon or the basic interrupt (heads grace). I'd like to see something unique that would let parties be happy to have a phys range
I am holding out hope for Corsair being added in the next expac as it was my favourite Job design from FF11 and FF14 overall, a phys ranged gambler support Job that has to play Blackjack to give the party stronger buffs. Of course SE has just moved away from the gambling vibe of AST so I guess that won't happen, but I do think that moving Phys Ranged to having more support/utility (and more varied mechanics in fight design) could really help the Job feel unique and useful again in a meta where increasingly everything feels a bit homogenised and sanded-down. Great discussion points from the guests and good video!
if they dont add a BLITZ MF BALL job in 8.0 ima be so heated its unreal, a blitzball job would go so unfathomably hard and ik yoshi said no to blitzball mini game in the media but idgaf we can still get a job for it give that mf the elemental reel gauge that either augments your main combo or lets you use different elemental skills or combos give it poison shot which is a dot and wither shot which is either a second dot or a dps debuff like death design give it a 1/2 min burst with a finisher thats obviously called jecht shot raid buff called team rally or something sports related for utility give it passing skills where you pass the ball to a party member which can be a heal, mit, or even a damage buff i have so many ideas for this job that would be sick i need this job bro
I definitely think if they added a "support caster" that did similar buffage to dnc/brd so that if your group brought a MCH it wouldn't hinder the groups raid buffs
As a dragoon main knowing my robot crafting friend doesn’t get hype from seeing battle litany like the other classes do makes my heart ache on a level that can not be explained in words.
Imo bard should be a wide range sustained support, the dancer should be a partner wide burst support, and the machinist should be a burst self buff dps. when i think of machinist i think of the accretians and their siege kits from another game a very long time ago called RF Online, this role was a very low dps but very high ttk class which utilized a mobile artillery platform called a "siege kit" to deal enormous amounts of burst damage within a short window, it shoots slow and has a very long cooldown but its damage is unmatched by anything other than the opposing factions MAU's (mobile armored unit - basically a piloted mech). Bard is in a decent place right now (even if im still salty about dnc stealing brd's kit all those years ago) so the only thing i would suggest would be either more support songs or the ability to mesh songs together in the way dancer does with its attack skills to graduate the song into a symphony. And as for dancer itself, i feel that it should focus less on sustained support and focus more on burst support, with its attack combo's augmenting what their partner buff gives to others.
More than anything I want a time mage. Something that hastes others cooldowns at a cost of their own or looks to provide huge buffs at some sort of draw back. I love the idea of having a utility class, especially for high end content. It could create such interesting strategy's!
@@MyVanir I completely understand that, but the heart wants what it wants. I'd be fine with it being a limited job much further down the line tbh similar to blue mage.
The main issue with job balance I is player themselves : due to all tools available, it's very easy to know how job performs, and we will always get something as "We only exist for the 1% buff". I mean, we saw the same complains about SUM and RDM with "We only exist for battle rez". And if they just put forward range DPS close to melee, melee would probably feel the same "We only exist for the 1% buff and the LB". I agree as the main gimmick of ranged right know is the added and better mitig overall, which is not very revelant in most content. But what to give them ? Bring back Mage Ranged don't make them an identity, even more when mages got many mobility tools for not being turret who cannot do mechs overall. Slow cast like in PvP could do the trick, but i think it will mostly slow down the paste with less ogcd opening. I would love to know some info about the jobs revamp the dev team work on before being delayed to 8.0 due to battle overall changes, it would be very interessing to know what they think about the role, and it's probably something many would love to know. If i could add one thing to the jobs : For bard it would be to find something a bit better for DoT or scrap them. I mean, 45 s long is just too long, and iron jows feel less relevant due to this. I get what tieing inspiration to songs is better, as it avoids Aoe crazy procs (like in Mage Ballad on ShB), being unable to get proc when the job get away. For Machinis i would to have a solo target equivalent of flamethrower, and maybe turn their duration down to 5s with a potency increase to make them feel a bit better. I also find strange auto cross bow doesn't reduce checkmate and double check cd. I don't play Dancer so... For a new addition to the role, i think a fast paced dual gun wielder could be fun. Dancer, Machinist and Bard are mostly slow with few attack speed bonuses.
Yea if they want to have phys range be it's own category and work similar to how it is designed now the issue is with fight design more than anything. IE if there was a fight where an add spawned that had to be killed, but only the first person to attack it could damage and it chased after that person and would kill them if it reached them, this is something rdps would be key for. Obviously you cant do that specific thing every fight but you could create similar other mechanics to necessitate the mobility of the rdps category. -=Other easy off the top of my head potential mechanics rdps could do and others couldn't without dps loss: -A tether that follows the character's path and they have to draw a shape around a spot to create a safe space. -Collecting something around the arena to get a buff and then moving it to a specific area to propegate the buff to the raid. -An add phase that doesn't end with a certain # of waves or certain enemies dying and instead ends when some movement heavy mechanic is resolved that dps can still be done during such as running through a maze around the edge of the arena, or more ambitiously splitting off the rest of the raid to do a chase sequence with the boss and do damage to it and obstacles on the way in order to end the add phase. They don't necessarily have to be mechanics ONLY rdps can accomplish, as long as they're mechanics where they are the best ones for the job due to their mobility. If you aren't going to create a tangible benefit to the freedom of movement rdps have, stop treating the freedom of movement as part of their power budget in the game's balance.
Always loved being a support DPS and guns, so when I started the game MCH felt perfect for me. At the end of Shadowbringer, when the tax was instaured and MCH got rework, I became tired of MCH and decided to move to tanks... Which was a very good call considering EW iteration of tanks. I got more tired of ShB MCH than SB MCH, that tells a lot.
Maybe make a bit of use for their role abilities, like heavy and bind, implement them in savage fights, release a cool job next expansion, buff mch damage
i'd love juggler to be added to phys ranged, but i am biased not playing the mainline final fantasy games prior to xiv and only playing crystal chronicles and tactics/tactics advanced and there's just something special about a moogle in a clown costume throwing molotovs.
I would think a fun physical range would be alchemist. Hear me out, alchemists would have a bevy of potions that they have already ready made so they can move and toss potions without having to craft them. They can be extremely dot as well as explosives as normal damage. They can build fun healing pots for supports and can be extremely support based where they deal good damage and good supports with buffs and such, like a ASTRO version of dps
Kinda ironic that some of the most OP weapons in historically-accurate warfare ended having a lower damage output than almost every other Job/Role in this game... ( T - T ) In all serious though, as someone who's relatively new to FFXIV and trying to figure out what makes every Job stand out from a design & gameplay perspective-thereby slamming my head in frustration over Archer's messy base kit and its lack of synergy with the general Bard rotation-thanks a ton for sharing your experiences and thoughts on what is clearly the most underutilized role in the game As for a hypothetical 4th Ranged Job, I'd probably go with the Gambler, although my mean reason for this is simply because I hate the RNG aspects of the Archer/Bard kit (curse you _Straight Shot Ready_ / _Hawk's Eye_ and your atrocious 12-35% activation rate) and would rather prefer if the various Repertoire(s) activated from performing certain actions relative to each song instead of just happening without any input over time In fact, why not make it so the 3 songs Bard has actually modify and empower certain actions in ways relative to the song's name & theming? (e.g. Mage's Ballad bringing back a more mobile version of Bow Mage via magicked/enchanted arrows, while The Wanderer's Minuet..., well I'm sure we've all seen how practically EVERY Bard main reacted to a certain boss fight from the Myths of the Realm raids)
I've been playing since late Shadowbringers and don't have nearly as impressive of a record as anyone in the video, just a few savage fights (and one tier clear!) under my belt as bard. I came into this game wanting to be a "support DPS", but right now the job feels like DPS lite, I guess? We have the freedom to skitter around the battlefield w/o worrying about positionals or cast times, but that's the only real standout. I would absolutely adore more support options. The current song system gives party buffs, why not expound on that? Individual skills that give buffs to the party (or a targeted party member) would be pretty sick imo. Get the AST card mechanic feeling and inject that into bard and I'll be happy! What buffs? Damage is always fun, but whackier stuff might be cool too. An actual shielding ability for mitigation in tight spots could safe a caster's life if mits were blown earlier in a fight! In the spirit of healing, maybe a Bloodbath-esque buff slapped on a dying melee DPS could save them. Giving ranged DPS support options that have long cooldowns but good impact could completely transform how they're played. Alternatively, I wouldn't mind abandoning the support aspect altogether if bard just slapped on another DoT or two and became the de facto DoT DPS job. We already have Iron Jaws for reapplication! Maybe in 8.0 there can be branching paths for job customization with one option having an emphasis on more impactful support abilities while the other more heavily dips into DPS, comparable to but not QUITE as strong as melee DPS. Sure, one would technically be "better" than the other in terms of raw damage, but I think that as long as both are fun to play that's not really an issue for me. I play bard because it's fun, if I wanted to do loads of DPS I'd play something else and have less fun. Also please please please add more esuna mechanics so paean is used at all. I want to use that button so bad but there's never a reason to.
It's funny that the MCH sounds depressed and tired of everything. A great job representative.
Love Seren
Man I really shoulda yapped more lmaooo.
Thanks for inviting me to be a part of this, Rinon. May our prayers finally be heard in the year 2030 or something.
+10 drill potency, you're welcome
@@xeno942 can't wait.
@@xeno942 then an immediate -20 potency
3rd reassemble stack and drill 6
Stal going off on Tillana sent me lmao
the best part about stals dnc rant is i had to cut parts of it due to length and it was 10/10 the entire time
They arn’t wrong
I havent heard her swear like that in so long its refreshing lol
@@RinBanana Any chance you'll post the whole thing at some point?
I only just picked up dancer this expac, and literally I was thinking the same thing. I actively dislike the ability BECAUSE it fills the gauge. If they don’t change it to a proc, they should just remove it. It’s simply annoying
Mch being the greedy ranged and doing the lowest dmg of all jobs is fucking insane
The funny thing is how brain-dead easy it is to actually balance in this game for greedy jobs.
People can spread-sheet out exact Potency-Per-Minute caluclations of how much MCH can pump in 1, 2, 4, 6, 10 minute fights and factor in battery, etc.
Okay so a MCH puts out 6500 potency a minute, and it is 10% behind a samurai. You want MCH to be about 2% under the samurai, which requires increasing the potency per minute by 520. Okay so let's add 60 potency to drill, anchor, chainsaw, and 20 to this and this and this.
This is a simplified example, but these minor-ass changes could be shot through a minor update, they don't need to wait until 7.1 or 7.15, they just choose to do so because they are allowed to be this complacent in their work ethic.
@@sinistersaintsgaming738 there is no reason a "greedy" job should be doing more rdps than other jobs
@@xeno942 But the expectation is that they do, however. A job with no buffs the party can utilize should at least be able to compensate for the loss of increased party DPS by doing higher personal DPS. A job with no party utility that doesn't bring anything else to the table that the other jobs can't do, and are better at the things it can do, is simply put a badly designed job.
@@xeno942 Are you serious? How does it make any sense for a job who offer nothing but pure DPS to do less damage than the DPS job that come with party utility?
Nobody is saying their DPS should be substantially better. Just that they need to do more damage or offer something to the group, otherwise it make no sense for MCH to be a greedy dps because currently it is just bad DPS.
@@Newbtuber they specifically said rdps. In a perfect world selfish jobs should do massively more adps than buff jobs, while the latter should crush rdps charts.
Unfortunately with current design that would mean cramming even more potency into the 2m exclusively because uptime managed buffs or more frequent windows don't exist anymore aside from Bards passive song buffs which are pretty negligible and don't really add anything to gameplay.
Stal's tillana rant LMAO preach it sister all my homies hate new tillana! Making it a saber dance/dotd ready buff would be so much nicer than 50 gauge outright for sure
Great vid as always Rinon, I enjoyed hearing opinions from top phys ranged players as a phys ranged main myself. My hope is for more "phys ranged mechanics" that require movement away from the boss etc to give us more reason to be there than 1% :D
I find it super interesting just hearing other people's thoughts on stuff like this too, hoping to do the other roles if this one is well received
SAY IT AND SING IT SISTER
WE HATE TILLANA IN THIS HOUSE !!!
As a dancer main, I absolutely HATE the tillana change. “Oh what’s that? Your partner is feeding you a crap ton of esprit for 2min? “OH WHATS THAT??? YOU OVERCAPPED?? LMAO SUCKS FOR YOU, FEEL BAD NOW EVEN THOUGH YOU DID NOTHING WRONG GET PUNISHED IDIOT” like part of me doesnt wanna tillana during 2 minute especially if my partner is going sicko mode and feeding me hella hard but then there’s an issue of “oh shit you need to hit tillana cause of raid buffs“BUT YOUR ESPIRIT GAUGE IS FULL AND YOULL FREAKING OVERCAP” i absolutely hate it here. If anything i would love to see it just give a ‘dance of the dawn ready’ proc like how they changed reaper and machinist’s, gauge buttons just…MAN…
I legit don't understand why it was changed anyway. And to that of all things. Every other class had their gauge fill button turned into a proc ready function "to help players against over capping." And then they looked at dancers and went "AND YOU GET OVERCAPPING THAT WASN'T THERE BEFORE!" Why? What was wrong with it giving you finishing step? It made the opener so much easier and it legit took me a few cycles to realize that change. So now you are want to do standard step pre-pull so you can hit technical step at the pull and get everyone going including your partner for their opener burst. Previously, you could handle both with technical which you could pre-dance and then unleash at go.
I'm not a dancer main, but I've been gearing dancer over the past 3 weeks and I knew something felt bad about it and trying so hard to squeeze every saber dance I could into my 2 minute window while my buttons lit up like a Christmas tree and feeling like a failure.
So, that explains that.
they forget the changes they make to old design while making new designs. They forget they got rid off leaden fist on Monk, and gave 2 leaden fists for Vipers. They forgot they made gauge gainers just make the combo/button available and introduce a new gauge gainer. It's really like 2 different teams working on it
I agree with Stal.
Square Enix should just embrace the _support_ part of the PhysRange role's job. Make the buffs PhysRange are supposed to give stronger than the melee buffs. Make the role just as essential as a healer or tank.
as a bard main: I do really feel like making Ranged DPS more support focussed by putting their importance more on buffs/debuffs could really give the Ranged DPS bracket something to make them feel special and meaningful. I might be biased because I do really feel like it fits well with bard style wise as well, but it could really give them something to call their own. I feel most satisfied on a bard run when I manage to optimally use my raid-wide mits, healing buffs, peon(bard esuna) and even properly using peleton.
If they lowered the cooldown on Head Graze from 30s to something like 10s then they can add quite a few interrupts to fights, giving phys ranged more utility. They can even keep interject on tanks, but keep the 30 second cooldown so phys ranged is needed in theoretical interrupt-heavy sections.
yeah even something like this would fit the bill for a "moment of glory" where you get to feel exceptionally important as the solution to a problem
But then there's the issue of not always having a Phys Ranged, and also forcing a certain style of comp because of needing more interrupts. It's not a good idea
@@Draco-9158Just eat shit then, you traded interupts for more DPS.
@@Draco-9158 tanks also have an interrupt so you're covered there as a just in case tbh
@@Draco-9158 they can treat it like they do knockback mechanics in that it's solvable without, but easier if you have the cooldown available
Stal's Tillana change rant is so real... I always die inside whenever my opener grants me 80 gauge before I press Tillana... please squenix make it a dotd/Saber Dance ready
DOTD ready is already granted by Technical finish
Just make Tillana grant a buff that makes your next esprit spender cost no esprit.
So your DOTD would be free in burst.
There's no need for it to grant 50 gauge, the amount of times I've overcapped because I've entered burst with high esprit due to no fault of my own feels bad
When she went off I started laughing lol thats was 180 flip in I like procs to who the fuck
As a BRD main I wish I felt more... supportive? When I was brand new I was sold on the idea of doing okay damage while helping boost my allies and while that technically happens, it's all in the background and doesn't feel like I'm actually helping.
You can't really feel the difference a 1% damage buff gives the party, it feels like a rounding error. Troubadour can occasionally feel clutch, but mostly you can forget it and do fine outside of highly specific scenarios. Minne is in there as well. At least DNC has some healing, the standard mit, and Improv during downtime or to flash a regen.
I think personally I'd prefer more active, noticeable support. Heck, give BRD a raise. They will never do it, but give it like a super long cooldown raise or a 10,000 MP raise and it might actually see some use.
As long as you guys are willing to eat the 2-3k dps raise tax.
Bard has a lot of support tools. Troubador is an unaspected 10% DR, making is more versatile than Feint and Addle. With coordination, Nature's Minne can make HoTs and Shields notably more potent. In lower end content, The Warden's Paean can save lives, or at the very least take some stress off of healers.
The buffs from the songs and Radiant are actually quite significant, however it comes at the cost of bard's raw damage output. If your party is doing a significant amount of adps, and you're in sync with them, your buffs will give you a crazy amount of rdps (up to like 7k at the ceiling right now.) The issue is that even the best performing, most geared bard will not make up that damage in place of simply bringing an median melee or picto, and worse yet, if your party is not doing a lot of adps, your damage will be closer to your dismal adps.
I think the primary buff that bard needs is for Minuet to have a significant personal crit buff, as this would significantly improve damage when under Army's Muse, which is when you're probably bursting: more probably criting (and CDHing,) the big hitters would probably make bringing bard more forgiving.
For support skills, I think making Nature's Minne have a 90s cooldown (or giving it a weak HoT) would be more than enough.
@@drahsid2 Troubadour is basically shared by the other two Physical Ranged job and also overwrites them so that's not unique to BRD.
Minne is a unique skill, but as I said, outside of very high end content can feel pretty extra (I think this is mentioned by one of the contributors in videos).
Warden's Paean barely matters, until it does, but actual debuffs that need cleansing are honestly quite rare.
Meanwhile, the other Phys Ranged unique utilities feel better to use. Dismantle is just more mit, it is always welcome. Curing Waltz, when stacked, can heal for an okay amount. Improv is kinda weak, but the HoT is absolutely free, and the tiny shield is at least something.
One third of BRD's utility kit is basically never used unless a fight has a debuff that is scary, which is rare. I'd appreciate maybe Paean having a secondary effect, maybe a HoT, or even a small shield, to make it a button you would actually want to press. Minne having a HoT is honestly something I've suggested before, it seems like a no-brainer.
As for the songs, yeah, they're good, after a fight, where you see the damage breakdown and see how they helped boost damage, but they just don't feel like they do a lot in the moment. You just sort of tell yourself "I'm contributing!" and hope your party are good enough to make use of that 1% damage boost.
@@formy52 My point about troubadour was it was more versatile than the other roles, not that if was unique within phys range haha.
I'm not really sure support can be particularly useful outside of high end content, because low end content is designed to be trivial (which makes Warden's Paean's existence feel kinda awful, since high end fights usually don't have debuffs it can cleanse.)
I think something that might make Warden's Paean a single-hit DR (similar to how the debuff imunity lasts until a debuff lands,) or a HoT as you suggested would make it much less of a waste.
As for the songs, party-wide they do feel pretty weak in the moment (and are admittedly weak unless you have a very good party,) I'm not sure there's a particularly good solution to that which won't either make bard entirely beholden to the party, or make bard damage so strong that the rdps isn't important- though as I mentioned before, I do think bard damage should be higher.
@@drahsid2 Fair fair, the Troubadour/Tactical/Samba mitigation button is arguably the Phys Ranged best feature, before the 1% party bonus.
Yeah the songs are an interesting balance problem. I actually like the idea of the songs providing some kind of specific self-buff to the BRD. As you say, a BRD lives or dies by their party also performing well.
As for the rest of it, it's just fight design, which is more of a baked in problem supports face. They certainly *could* make debuffs and DoTs appear more often, but they don't. So Paean continues to gather dust. The few times it is helpful though, I do feel joy though, love finding a use case here or there.
As someone who cleared on MCH, just everything Serenaya said. I feel the depression in their voice in my bones. Autocrossbow not reducing cd like heatblast feels bad. Flamethrower is useless. Being at the bottom of every DPS list ever with a substantial gap between us and the 2nd worst is depressing. But at least I have my wrench back.
At this point Ive given up on ever expecting a selfish phys range to be competitive. Just give me a 2min buff like everyone else I guess.
as a dnc main, i felt stal's tillana rant deep in my soul.
Very interesting video and the guests' input was very meaningful and on point. I think Surana's idea of adding more interrupts is definitely a very good way to increase the responsibility and make Prange feel more rewarding - kind of in the style of WoW where precise interrupts were extremely important for many fights. That being said it might have to be on a shorter CD or have it removed from tanks so that there are limited interrupt resources available. Additionally adding Prange-oriented mechanics like liquid hell is definitely another way to make the role more meaningful. Obviously Tillana is currently busted because it makes players feel punished for doing nothing wrong. Lastly the person that said make peloton usable in combat and on a long CD deserves a medal for originality - that is such a brilliant idea that can make Prange players feel needed and not just for the 1%.
I think you can do both. Interrups and baiting. Without changing the cd for it.
However you can't do interrupts by removing tanks. Because then your there as an interrupt bot plus 1%. That alone is probably not the best execution. Better done by interrupts being asked during tank swap and buster sequences. When their ogcd are very active. Or some engaging tank mechanic. Where they can technically still do it, bit better for physical ranged there.
Removing tanks and only ranged phys for interrupts. Runs into the issue of a dead ranged phys possibly causing an auto wipe. Lots of stress. Where having others still capable but suboptimal would likely be better.
An add phase maybe. Or boss jumping across the room the casting etc. Where technically tanks can still do it. But it's very tight timing vs phys ranged getting it immediately
My FFXIV buddy and I were theory crafting a Phys Range with a Blitzball inspired weapon to give a nod to FFX in the same way Gunbreaker and Viper have been homages to FFVIII and FFIX.
That would be hilarious and trigger Mr. Happy. Because he doesn't want Blitzball to be added to FFXIV. XDDD
i think yoship said "NO!" to blitzball, so probs no hope for the 8.0 phys ranged, but maybe in 6-8 years by the time the next one releases they change their mind?
@@pitta3114 i mean, i think it's self-evident that when he says "no blitzball," he's talking about the mini-game, i don't see any good or rational reason that that should somehow bar any possibility of a blitzball-THEMED job a la wakka for the future, maybe they could incorporate his reels into it somehow
@@pitta3114he said no to the blitzball mini game but that doesnt mean there cant be a job for it
a blitzball job would be cringe. why do people keep asking for it.
Making peloton work in-combat & give like 2 or 3min cooldown will be cool, especially if there is some raid mechanics that require fast movement
Throw caution to the wind w/ Mch. Crank its dmg up to Bard levels during early months of ARR after the relaunch.
Maybe give the job close/far positional like its PvP counterpart. Its main combo and certain oGCDs /‘tools’ do more dmg when standing at/beyond a certain range.
Agree w/ adding more mechanics in fights that need ‘long range’ interrupts to comfortably deal with as well.
If not ‘long range’ maybe frequent mechanics requiring alternating interrupts.
Maybe reintroduce mechanics/adds that can/ need to be slowed w/ heavy (but immune to stuns) effect as well.
Im not a fan of the damage crank (phys ranged feels better as support with a focuses in party mits, movement (give Dancer summoners mid fight speedup ability), esuna, and minor healing).
On the other hand having close and far positionals could be an interesting thing to experiment with Drill and Excavator doing more damage at close range just makes sense as well as Air Anchor at longer ranges.
Biggest hurdles would be how to create another indicator on the boss ring for such positionals and convincing SE to even try it since they seem to be not happy with doing such a thing if we look at what they wanted to do with Viper.
Edit: Speaking of Viper we already kinda do have a non required range positional for the class in Uncoiled Fury regularly being saved for boss disconnects. Maybe somewhere in that spaghetti code they can reverse the range meter and make it so you CANT use skills within a certain range
Me: "Please don't make another prng job until you can make the existing ones meaningful." ~~ I didn't ask for a 4th scoop of sardine flavored ice cream.
8.0 is surely the expansion of the phys ranged, surely, suuurely
@@RinBanana We can only hope!
@RinBanana God I hope.... thus fledgling MCH main would LOVE to have it be actually spoken well of...
LOLLLL
@@RinBananaI'll settle with it being the expansion for literally anyone. That's already an Everest-sized bar to pass judging by DT's shenanigans or lack thereof.
I don't know how the algorithm knew I needed to hear two top level Range Phys players say it feels like the role is just +1% but I am so glad it it did.
I really hope they hold off on making a fourth Phys range until they prove to us they can make the current three feel like they deserve to still be in the game. It's my favorite role because I love the pew pew lyfe on principal, but it's been depression pews since 5.0
I think a change that could help is a role action unique to range phys, that functions similarly to Addle and Feint, where instead of mitigation it increases the damage a target takes by a percentage, this could help with giving ranged more supportive tools while also giving it a bit more of an identity than it has
God i miss the old mch hypercharge debuff lmao
As a healer main who has been very vocal about healer's current problems, just shy of striking, I look on phys ranged with pity. Like yeah we're in a rough spot, but they just can't catch a break.
As a DNC main myself -
I 110% agree with what Stal is saying about Tillana - It's current functionality is unbelievably bad and needs to be changed asap.
Making it grant 50 gauge has to be one of the most lazy, zero thought changes they could of made to the job.
If your group is doing well and you're unlucky to go into burst with > 50 or esprit procs put you > 50, enjoy overcapping through no fault of your own.
They went and took +50 gauge granting from MCH and RPR only to go and say "Hey, lets give the mechanic to Dancer!"
All they have to do make Tillana grant a buff for say 30 seconds called Saber Dance Ready that does the following -
"Your next Esprit spender will cost no Esprit."
It would be used on DOTD anyway and remove the annoying uncontrollable overcap issue.
Also, why does Finishing Move take an eternity for it's damage and animation to go off.
As a bard main I just want to feel like an actual DPS 😅 Overall I’d love more mechanical responsibilities, I think the freedom of movement and range phys range has is very under-utilized in the current tier
Love the vid! Thank you for making it! Hope you feel better soon
i been needing this as i recently went from being a healer main to purely playing
Dancer and i am loving every second of it, and i plan to master machinist and bard too!!
so this video is helpful for someone like me who is currently learning more about being a phys
ranged main, thank you for uploading this at such a perfect timing! :D
ME AND MY HOMIES HATE TILLANA!!!!!!
Serenaya has the same audio clip twice for some reason, for the first and last question
5:42 Stal pops off on Tillana.
For anyone wanting a quick shortcut back to it for that serotonin.
There is one thing that can be added to phys range, even though it may lead to a complete chaos in encounter dances and positions...and it is something both Monster Hunter and FFXI do with their range weapons, and it is a sweet spot range, where you deal the most damage at a specific range of distance from the target and the farther you are from that range, the damage drop-off, maybe having that in FF14, and having some attacks that ignore that distance sweet spot, you could have that sweet spot as a reason to close the damage profile gap of range phys and melee dps.
that concept exists in FF14 PVP mode for the bard job class only the farther you are from a target in PVP the more damage the bard job class does.
@@1BadAssArchAngelvs14there are things from pvp that could be implemented into pve, like slow moving when casting
Something that I think none of the experts focused on (understandably) is that I think this role in particular has received very little in the way of new systems or mechanics that actively change how the job plays in a significant way in YEARS. Obviously their new additions change how their burst window looks, and changes to song balance can change how long you stay in each song on Bard, but there hasn't been an extra layer added to any of these jobs for ages. Summoner is obviously worse, where they get one new button to press during burst and that's it, and to a certain extent that same argument can be extended to a lot of other jobs this expansion as well. But from the outside looking in it seemed like most of the changes for the phsyranged role this expansion were...another follow-up attack to use in burst or something.
Anecdotally, I've had trouble filling PF groups because of a missing physranged about as often as I've struggled to fill them because of a tank or a healer, maybe even more. But every time I consider trying the role I just get bored out of my mind because it feels like there aren't enough systems at play compared to other roles.
Really hope 8.0 gives us big, meaningful NEW additions to all jobs, but especially phsyranged, on the level of how much was added to jobs going into Stormblood where tons of jobs got new systems or resources to manage.
I'm a DNC main and I agree with Stal's point of Tillana. The constant thought of potential overcapping feels bad. due to also, we can't control the Espirit generated during the burst and Dance Partner. If they make it like the next Saber Dance/DoTD be able to be cast at no cost instead that be great.
NGL the moment Stal talked about Tillana I laughed >
Combat pelotons, more precise short window interrupts, and perhaps even use of the bind/heavy role actions on something like an add moving from arena's edge to buff the boss that requires coordinated burst to take down, but with bind/heavy it slows it down and lengthens the window for killing it.
There's a lot of unexplored design space for mechanics that would use bind/heavy and I'm keen to see Squeenix make those actions useful.
One thing that wasn't really mentioned in the video was that tanks being so strong supportively also minimizes anything that phys range can do. It seems that most of the problems with the role isnt the role itself, but everything else like fight design and other jobs encroaching on what phys range are supposed to do
I really appreciated Surana's input, and I hope you have him back in other videos. He took the matter seriously and put thought into his answers ahead of time, and thus had interesting responses that were communicated effectively. He also refrained from whining, which I definitely appreciated.
The comments about Tillana, I felt it to my soul.
For the speculated class: In Endwalker, Admiral Merlwyb has dual pistols. It came complete with animations. The base stance for Rogue was available much earlier with Thancred in his stabby days. So my take is that Merlwyb was the smoke signal for where the RDPS is headed.
I see them this way: MCH is pure DPS. DNC is damage buffs for the party but majorly for the partner and, done well, a red healer for the party. Bard is in the middle with its variety of damage buffs and DOT playstyle. A new phys range should maybe focus on having more defensive capabilities beyond the typical Troubadour ability, or some other gimmick that gives it a unique definition in the role. (And maybe give DNC even more healing or DP abilities to further define it?)
There is already an overabundance of healing and mitigation.
Mch has dismantle and it's already everyone's excuse why it is so low on dps despite of being a selfiss dps
Yeah, i always wanted this idea to be taken seriously, but a big part of the community hates the idea of hybrid jobs (I can't understand why). Just make phys ranged more supp, and make healers a bit more dps (you don't need to have 10 different healing skills, just make it like sage, but a bit more further). This would open up a new way of playing the game, like the proper rework that we deserved on 7.0.
I feel the need to clarify for Bard songs (4:29) , you do still have to be in combat to use songs, you just don't need to be directly targeting an enemy anymore
Glad you are feeling better Ri!
I'm surprised they don't try something weird with the classes. Like a ranged tank or a melee healer.
se hates doing risky things and changing up the formula. I wish they were more willing to make decisions people could potentially dislike like what you mentioned.
@@rare9242 melee healer isnt even new thing, several games has it, aion's chanter is good example
@@glimoreganajai2206 I never said it was a new thing, only new to FFXIV. SE hates change lol
From someone that started playing BRD on TEA, cleared TEA, Ucob, Asphodelos and had to change for DSR to DNC because the job was too weak for the fight, I just hope 8.0 makes playing phys ranged more... rewarding, I always though the idea of Bowmage scary but I agree with Stal now, bring Bowmage back, I think the class would be more challenging instead of just "Fine get your 1% increased damage and be happy" in the meantime, I'll play some other class (Trying Tank for the first time and feels great!) I'm really sad class boy doesnt feel like... a star a behind the curtains, pulling the strings and stuff, it just feel like I'm the other dps that exists for extra mit and raid buff.
As someone who played through bowmage to the point it made me quit please never wish that horror upon the game again x~x. Bowmage turned off auto attacks, created inconsistent weave windows on a class that has Empyreal arrow, Sidewinder, 3 charges of Bloodletter/heartbreak shot, Raging strikes, Radiant finale, Barrage, Battle Voice and 1 of the songs (probably WM which would also add pitch perfect to the list of oGCDs needing to be pressed) that needs to be put on cooldown in the opener and then kept on cooldown for the whole fight unless stocking up 3 bloodletters/heartbreak shots which would then create a mess on the two minute burst. Why would it cause a mess? because the only way to get a full GCD to double weave consistently (or triple weave if ping allowed it) was procing straight shot/refulgent arrow, otherwise you were locked into a 1.5 second cast bar. This meant at most you could only reliably weave 1 oGCD between GCDs and even then if you had any amount of ping you would then drift your GCD.
Could they have designed it in a way that worked? Possibly. Do I trust the development team that decided to remove noxious gnash from viper despite the fact it was designed around the debuff existing to create interesting play for the class and create a cohesive engaging rotation to not mess up on making bowmage actually fun, engaging and playable? No No I don't, because when they first implemented it it was at the time when bloodletter fully reset and had no charges while also having 2 other oGCDs as well. Imho Bowmage was the single worst design choice the dev team has ever placed within this game and the fact that it took them an entire expansion before they removed it still leaves me feeling resentful for its inclusion to this day.
Yeah, I mostly agree that other than balance questions the jobs themselves aren't necessarily bad. It's more that they don't really have a purpose when it comes to fight design. More interrupts, more movement required, maybe even needing to use slows or binds, etc. And some form of combat peleton.
If I was to start taking a specific job into the current raid tier, I’d go with Bard. It’s always been my favorite ranged and the changes that came with Dawntrail have been some fantastic quality of life. I am not sure what to expect from 8.0 in terms of a new physical ranged or how I feel they should go into said next expansion, mostly due to the fact that a lot of that was covered in this video, but I hope that they all receive good cheered and more people start picking up the role regularly. Also I’m sorry to hear that you were so sick Rinon, I hope that it’s entirely passed now. This was a good video, and it’s given me a better appreciation for the phys ranged role.
I’ve always theorycrafted a MCH with positionals. Give their weapons a close/medium/far type positional (
I agree with the statement that it's mostly the fight design that needs to change, not the job design. Not that the jobs themselves don't need changing, but I think that figuring out how to work with what's already there should come before adding new things. As for a new phys ranged, I think a job that pushes a massive ballista or cannon on a cart is a cool idea. Call it "artillerist" or something, and it would focus on much slower gameplay, sorta like an equivalent to black mage, maybe along with more defensives and party mitigation. I also just think the mental image of a lalafell pushing around a cannon five times their size is really fun.
For me id love a whip user--a sort of 'mid-range' (somewhere between melee and full range dps) or alternatively a mad scientist/alchemist with debuff bomb-type things. With cannon cart id worry about it sort of leaning too far into mch in terms of identity. whip is its own thing and alchemist with weird looking/suped up potion bottles would be fun!
"no matter how much I may hate the class, if it uses a bow or xbow I will play it" this completely resonates with me. i LOVE all things bows and always look for an angle to do something related to archer in literally every single game I play.
As a dancer main who started raiding at Endwalker launch and has raided every tier since, none of these conclusions about 'existing for the 1% party buff' or 'missing a purpose' is brought about by comparing the role to what it used to be versus what it is now; I, and I'm sure every other phys ranged main who started with this modern phys ranged design, quickly came to notice how I'm the least important person in the group. The biggest thing thats kept me sane playing the role this long has been adding value to myself through any external responsibilities I can: making call outs, simplifying mechanics, keeping a clear view of the arena to review clips, whatever you can think of really. But end of the day, it doesn't change the feeling like you could be doing so much more playing anything else, but we can't possibly abandon the 1% party buff. I frequently find myself in the position across multiple statics where I am playing phys ranged, and feel TRAPPED in phys ranged, because I know how to play it, and, if I were to switch to something else, its highly unlikely my replacement will match what I brought in the role. The overwhelming majority of phys ranged players are frankly not very good and often newer players hopeful to contribute best they can as their favorite jobs (just like where I and everyone else like me came from) who havn't hit that reality yet that they don't really bring anything to the table. Once that sinks in, people either move to other roles, move to other games maybe idk, or keep themselves in this phys ranged prison they've walked themselves into.
I agree with all of them tbh. As a pranged main I feel like I'm just there to fill a slot. The only momments I can think of that actually felt good being a pranged is baiting liquid hell in UCoB and interrupting in p1 of DSR. SE needs to introduce more baits and interrupts like that
As DNC main I understand the tilana rant, I just usually empty my gauge before my 2mn window (or if I somehow get past 50 before I'm supposed to click it I adapt) but during the opener it can be so annoying sometimes yeah. My one complaint is that I kind of wish last dance would grant us a guaranteed feather just so I can weave in an extra skill after using it, sometimes it feels a bit clunky.
And I really hope we get buffs on our support abilities. It's exhausting seeing my pictomancer being ahead of me in hps just with their star prism. Improv needs a rework, it's good in down phases but otherwise the 3s cooldown makes you lose a gcd if you want the Shield so I tend to just click it for the group regen and it just feels so weak for a 2mn cooldown
I wouldnt care if dancer did even less dps if we had incredible support tools, but at the moment it just feels sort of weak, besides the partner ofc.
Revert Tillana to 1.5 seconds and give it DotD-ready or something like it. It'd completely change the burst, likely more towards an enhanced Endwalker burst, where you can go into your burst hoarding Esprit and Feathers, and just dump EVERYTHING during that window. An enhanced Endwalker burst window would be PERFECT, the job's only flaw during Endwalker was bursts being 10 seconds of Ninja-tier weaving, then 10 seconds of Summoner-tier gameplay.
Next range will probably be Selphie or Quistis themed. Ranged whip with blue magic flavored attacks or Nanchaku attacks with slots.
I remember in Second Coil where a bard was a must to do the cyclops tether thing properly. I wish I had some kind of special thing that I could do. Also, while I personally didn't play physical ranged in Heavensward (I arguably chose less suffering as a healer), I think something really cool would be to bring immobility back. For example, if dancer had some leylines mechanic where choosing where to drop your "stage" increased your esprit generation for you and your partner; or if bard had Foe's Requiem back, but couldn't move while singing (we don't use our MP anyway); or if machinist could actually increase their damage output by selectively setting up a bunker zone to do more damage. I mostly agree with everything here, something to feel like I shouldn't just go back to playing melee or something.
Leaning into the mobility aspect of phys range from a fight design standpoint is personally where I'd like to see the devs take the role. just having mechanics that everyone does but the ranged jobs are away from the boss isn't enough. Mechanics that can be baited and require freedom of movement while also requiring disengagement from the boss would be more in line. a decent example of this is the eruptions during Ifrit nails in UWU, or even something as simple as the aoe in Cloud of Darkness that forces one random player to run a lap at the start of the fight.
I love machinist. Its the job i fell in love with. Sure been playing viper now, but gonna be mixing it up during my savage prog
from a midcore mch enjoyer perspective. something i've been thinking about lately is splitting the role into two "types" of physranged. much like how we have shield vs regen healers and res vs no-res casters, support physranged vs pure damage physranged might just go a long way. lean HARD into support for bard and dancer, give them more heals and mits, design fights better around them being able to use interrupts and bard's esuna, so on and so forth. make them able to save a bad pull the way a chain-rezzing rdm can if they pull out their entire kit, make the healers for heal-heavy fights or mechanics like in m3s or p10s say, "oh, thank god, a bard". then take mch, maybe pair it with a new damage-centric physranged in 8.0, and make it a category of its own. let it lose a little mobility, even - bring in the walking castbars from PVP for some skills, maybe give mch a long-cast, high-damage cooldown "snipe" skill it needs to stay still for and hardcast, i don't really care. just whatever the dev team needs to justify in their minds giving it the same level of damage as other selfish dps. this hypothetical 8.0 damage physranged doesn't have to be anything special on its own, just any generic dps with a normal amount of damage and probably the standard raid buff, probably also featuring very slightly less mobility than dnc and brd. just something to match mch, since the devs seem to like having things equal in roles with an informal split.
I love this format, ur my favourite content creator for ffxiv.
Yeah Blitzball would be a fantastic addition to Phys Ranged.
Like Wakkas whole thing is applying debuffs to enemies which would fufill the final support structure each job seems to focus on. MCH uses mits, BRD likes Esuna (and i wouldnt say no to minor healing), DNC is all about party buffing, and having Blitzball be about debuffing the enemy just fits.
Imagine being able to cast slow to decrease a bosses auto attack on MT, Scan increases damage taken on boss (kinda like Ninjas trick attack and mug), Immobolize for those weird moments when you want the boss to sit still but MT is being forced to move around.
And the most fascinating one to play with, specific to FFX, Delay which would increase a bosses cast bar. That would be a unique skill that would be useful in raids for some mechanics especially in Ultimates where a single half second fix error in position is catastrophic. (This of course would be on a massive cooldown along the lines of 180s or even a Tanks emergency button 5 minute cooldown)
Theres A LOT of debuffs throughout the years they could search through and having Blitzball be a job that focuses on addressing those minor annoyances and hiccups when moving the boss or having those moments where a healer needs to focus on another player.
Blitzball should be a Job that can give the slightest breathing room for those mechanics that keep wiping parties. To get back control of a fight youre losing
My eyes magnet to the little line at the bottom right.
I like that they've been creating more original jobs in recent expansions so I'd like to see that continue with whatever new Phys Ranged they release next. Personally, I came up with a pitch for a circus-themed job called Ringmaster, which uses a whip and performs feats of acrobatics like trapezes, tightropes, and so on, while also commanding certain "tamed" monsters in a similar manner to a physical Summoner.
Also make Tillana give a free Saber Dance instead of gauge, what were they smoking???
If there is gonna be a new ranged job, I think it would be cool to see something like a physical ranged red mage (having a melee phase once in a while). Square somehow managed to get one of my favorite weapon types into the game once before, what if they did it again with a shrotsword and gun combo for a class (I'm coining the term Duelist).
I could see them going with a crossbow-using job as the next Phys Ranged, probably something like Hunter who’s like Bard’s angry brother.
But on some level I want them to make a job that uses a Blitzball, using “shot” single-target and “pass” multi-target skills building up an “offensive pressure” gauge for big-damage hits and buffing the party with a “team spirit” gauge. Also they’d get two defensive buffs, a single-target one called “Man-to-Man Defense” and a group one called “Zone Defense” (their version of Troubadour/Tactician/Shield Samba). Basically a big excuse to reference Wakka and make a bunch of sports references in attack names…and maybe throw the peeps who want a Blitzball minigame in the Gold Saucer a bone.
I think it would be interesting if they split dps identity in the sense that Phys ranged would be the consistent dps not based around burst. We could retain burst raid buffs, but have them not affect the job itself.
This would make them excel at fights with difficult two minute bursts (or ones that end early) while retaining their ability to buff the party during their two minutes.
I've always been drawn to the support dps playstyle in other mmos, so I've been thinking about picking up phys ranged as a secondary role since caster is, uh, a bit competitive right now. I've been having fun leveling them all, but this was a really interesting perspective to hear. I agree with Surana though, I'd love a proper gunslinger style phys ranged. Merlwyb's had pistols for ages, let us have them too!
I'd really like to bring back phys ranged having cast times and doing about as much damage as casters from HW. As for new jobs I think it'd be really funny to bring chemist in as like a more supportive option, throwing buff potions at allies and hazerdous materials at enemies
For the next expansion I really want a cannoneer. Like they wield a big-ass cannon and their kit is all about gunpowder and explosions and stuff.
My hope for a fourth Phys-Range would be Gunner(Sniper). Utility should maybe be different ammo types. NO TOOLS! I really just want to have a sniper (semi or bolt) as a main arm.
Tilana being 2.5 is just a matter of adjusting to the rotation again, but it giving 50 gauge is messy due to how random the gauge generation can be, sometimes you just quickly overcap. Also Serenaya is 100% on point about MCH and the role in general.
A new phys.range option in 8.0 will be fun especially if they work on the current issues of the role, personally I hope its a blitzballer but it seems unlikely lmao
An "alchemist" job archetype would be neat imo, mixing brews on the battlefield to throw at allies to buff them and yourself would probably fit nicely into the melee ranged DPS niche. I'd say it'd be an interesting rework path for MCH and would lean well into the mad scientist with a gun aspect, but I feel like people would scream bloody murder if they tried to make MCH not a greedy DPS.
In ShB you had to be in melee range for the DNC opener that was kinda neat
I think it'd feel nice for the role to have some utility that would allow for unique strats without being required, like a strong and unique mobility tool
I have two ideas for new phys ranged classes. The first would be a buccaneer that mainly shoots pistols, but can dash in for sword attacks (yes, i know this is just a reskinned red mage. Let me have my fun). The other idea is a grenadier that throws or launches bombs. No idea what the "weapon" would be for that one though.
10:14 phys range right now doesn't really have "their thing", I think that they should "buff" the mits that they have (by either buffing troubadour and the other two by adding a charge or add a new, shorter but weaker mit with like a 50s cooldown). Buffing their mits would make them feel more support focused but it's probably not enough to make them feel uniquely outside of "I can walk everywhere".
Tbh I'm okay with phys ranged doing less dps than melees but the difference being 10% really makes them feel weak compared to the rest of the jobs, of course you could buff their potencies but it won't make them really unique, that's why I think they should add back long cooldown with a weird cooldown like 5 minutes, right now every job burst every 2 minute and having a cooldown that you would either use ASAP to get another use (or use and let the buffs it gives you tick for like 27s before using it in buff window) would be nice and make them feel more special.
This is just a quick idea that passed by but it could be something along the line of:
- MCH, reduce the cooldown of wildfire by 15s if a weaponskill is used by someone else, if 8 people used a weaponskill instead grants wildfire ready
- DNC, grants a buff to you and your dance partners that guarantees direct hit
- BRD, stacks the 3 songs effect and, like monk, allow you to overcap without losing charges on heartbreak shot and pitch perfect, effect cannot stack with army's muse (so you'd use that before going to wanderer's minuet and gain the 30s buff from quitting army's muse)
I think a longer cooldown where you might hold it or use it on cooldown depending on the fight is enough to make them feel truly unique and different in a meta where the longest ability that is a DPS gain is dissipation on sch for more energy drain :')
4th P.Range should be Juggler from FFTA2.
Can have a lot of fun weapon variety and support skills with that.
So I was looking through my old Deltascape (Savage) logs the other day (the only tier i've actually raided), and reminiscing with a friend about it, when I came across an O3S run I didn't remember doing at all. (I was subbing for that friend's static. I think.) The friend pointed out to me that our AST in that run was now one of the top phys ranged players in the world, and now I see Surana in this video and it's sort of surreal.
So a quick shoutout to Surana for not being like the AST in my own static, and standing in my clock spot every single first sword waltz and making us take four hours to reclear O3S every week.
Sigh.
liking this video so at least it catches the game developer's/community managers/yoshi-p's attention so as to give the phys range more thought :)
I'm hopeful that the next phys ranged takes inspiration from Setzer in FF6 and uses something like a magic deck of cards, or a real gunslinger with quickdraw type of animations.
As a dancer main and who also plays Bard and much i have to agree with all 3 people.
Also, hearing Stal go off on Tillana had me laughing so hard and crazy thing is, I agree with everything she said 😂😂
How about some reasons to press foot graze and leg graze? There's 2 phys ranged role actions in the game that are going woefully unused. I think the heavy could be used in E8S adds and beyond that I can't from the top of my head even remember any instance of either of them ever getting pressed.
Thank you for making that video because I feel the same really 😢 it's a mess
Love Stal just going off on Tillana 😂
Stal was SO REAL when she started ranting about tilana lol
I'm a bard main, and I love the new changes. Especially what happened in Endwalker where we can finally hear our Battle Voice, etc. That was so dumb that the Bard couldn't hear our songs. It's hilarious.
For a new job, I have no idea what it could or should be.
The things that Physical Ranged DPS classes that the others don't is Peloton. Speeds up dungeons...
Otherwise, they can also put out good damage consistently at range while constantly moving. A lot of the bosses have AOE's the force everyone to move and often out of melee range. Other classes then need to use their weaker 1 or 2 ranged skills until they can get back into melee range. Phys Ranged DPS don't need to worry about that.
There's not really anything else I can say to defend this role. Lol.
For 8.0 I really want a Blitzer job. Aesthetically it can have active/sporty/islander type gear. Give us a blitz ball that we can shoot/throw at ranged. Add a mechanic that allows us to enchant our ball with different elements that add higher damage and DOTs to our attacks for a period of time. Perhaps also give it a skill that has you lock on to a target, and all direct hit damage to that target is increased. Or all attacks to that target are guaranteed Critical Hits for 10 seconds or something. Give it Scouting gear to set it apart from the other physical ranged DPS jobs.
Bard main here. I feel like I agree with most things said. New bard is great, my burst feels less thrown together and more effective. But I am very frustrated about the role having basically no unique job. Yes, trouba can be important in critical situations when people are undergeared, but I would like something that only a phys range can to in Savage raids. Something where we would shine.
I often think of the UWU LBs and how the physrange lb is only good for adds. Maybe something could be done with that, Armys Paeon or the basic interrupt (heads grace). I'd like to see something unique that would let parties be happy to have a phys range
Put barrel stabiliser onto flamethrower (y'know...the hot thing giving us heat gauge would make sense) and make it another 550 or higher :D
I am holding out hope for Corsair being added in the next expac as it was my favourite Job design from FF11 and FF14 overall, a phys ranged gambler support Job that has to play Blackjack to give the party stronger buffs. Of course SE has just moved away from the gambling vibe of AST so I guess that won't happen, but I do think that moving Phys Ranged to having more support/utility (and more varied mechanics in fight design) could really help the Job feel unique and useful again in a meta where increasingly everything feels a bit homogenised and sanded-down. Great discussion points from the guests and good video!
if they dont add a BLITZ MF BALL job in 8.0 ima be so heated its unreal, a blitzball job would go so unfathomably hard and ik yoshi said no to blitzball mini game in the media but idgaf we can still get a job for it
give that mf the elemental reel gauge that either augments your main combo or lets you use different elemental skills or combos
give it poison shot which is a dot and wither shot which is either a second dot or a dps debuff like death design
give it a 1/2 min burst with a finisher thats obviously called jecht shot
raid buff called team rally or something sports related
for utility give it passing skills where you pass the ball to a party member which can be a heal, mit, or even a damage buff
i have so many ideas for this job that would be sick i need this job bro
You're already putting more thought into it than they ever will lol buy it honestly would be great if they went for it
I definitely think if they added a "support caster" that did similar buffage to dnc/brd so that if your group brought a MCH it wouldn't hinder the groups raid buffs
As a dragoon main knowing my robot crafting friend doesn’t get hype from seeing battle litany like the other classes do makes my heart ache on a level that can not be explained in words.
Imo bard should be a wide range sustained support, the dancer should be a partner wide burst support, and the machinist should be a burst self buff dps.
when i think of machinist i think of the accretians and their siege kits from another game a very long time ago called RF Online, this role was a very low dps but very high ttk class which utilized a mobile artillery platform called a "siege kit" to deal enormous amounts of burst damage within a short window, it shoots slow and has a very long cooldown but its damage is unmatched by anything other than the opposing factions MAU's (mobile armored unit - basically a piloted mech).
Bard is in a decent place right now (even if im still salty about dnc stealing brd's kit all those years ago) so the only thing i would suggest would be either more support songs or the ability to mesh songs together in the way dancer does with its attack skills to graduate the song into a symphony.
And as for dancer itself, i feel that it should focus less on sustained support and focus more on burst support, with its attack combo's augmenting what their partner buff gives to others.
More than anything I want a time mage. Something that hastes others cooldowns at a cost of their own or looks to provide huge buffs at some sort of draw back. I love the idea of having a utility class, especially for high end content. It could create such interesting strategy's!
There is a reason HW Spear was removed - changing other people's cooldowns desyncs everything and will likely be a detriment over a fight's length.
@@MyVanir I completely understand that, but the heart wants what it wants. I'd be fine with it being a limited job much further down the line tbh similar to blue mage.
The main issue with job balance I is player themselves : due to all tools available, it's very easy to know how job performs, and we will always get something as "We only exist for the 1% buff". I mean, we saw the same complains about SUM and RDM with "We only exist for battle rez". And if they just put forward range DPS close to melee, melee would probably feel the same "We only exist for the 1% buff and the LB".
I agree as the main gimmick of ranged right know is the added and better mitig overall, which is not very revelant in most content. But what to give them ? Bring back Mage Ranged don't make them an identity, even more when mages got many mobility tools for not being turret who cannot do mechs overall. Slow cast like in PvP could do the trick, but i think it will mostly slow down the paste with less ogcd opening.
I would love to know some info about the jobs revamp the dev team work on before being delayed to 8.0 due to battle overall changes, it would be very interessing to know what they think about the role, and it's probably something many would love to know.
If i could add one thing to the jobs :
For bard it would be to find something a bit better for DoT or scrap them. I mean, 45 s long is just too long, and iron jows feel less relevant due to this. I get what tieing inspiration to songs is better, as it avoids Aoe crazy procs (like in Mage Ballad on ShB), being unable to get proc when the job get away.
For Machinis i would to have a solo target equivalent of flamethrower, and maybe turn their duration down to 5s with a potency increase to make them feel a bit better. I also find strange auto cross bow doesn't reduce checkmate and double check cd.
I don't play Dancer so...
For a new addition to the role, i think a fast paced dual gun wielder could be fun. Dancer, Machinist and Bard are mostly slow with few attack speed bonuses.
Yea if they want to have phys range be it's own category and work similar to how it is designed now the issue is with fight design more than anything. IE if there was a fight where an add spawned that had to be killed, but only the first person to attack it could damage and it chased after that person and would kill them if it reached them, this is something rdps would be key for. Obviously you cant do that specific thing every fight but you could create similar other mechanics to necessitate the mobility of the rdps category.
-=Other easy off the top of my head potential mechanics rdps could do and others couldn't without dps loss:
-A tether that follows the character's path and they have to draw a shape around a spot to create a safe space.
-Collecting something around the arena to get a buff and then moving it to a specific area to propegate the buff to the raid.
-An add phase that doesn't end with a certain # of waves or certain enemies dying and instead ends when some movement heavy mechanic is resolved that dps can still be done during such as running through a maze around the edge of the arena, or more ambitiously splitting off the rest of the raid to do a chase sequence with the boss and do damage to it and obstacles on the way in order to end the add phase.
They don't necessarily have to be mechanics ONLY rdps can accomplish, as long as they're mechanics where they are the best ones for the job due to their mobility. If you aren't going to create a tangible benefit to the freedom of movement rdps have, stop treating the freedom of movement as part of their power budget in the game's balance.
Hoping for Blitzball Player as 4th job, bouncing between melee sword attacks and ranged Jecht Shot finisher, similar to Red Mage.
Always loved being a support DPS and guns, so when I started the game MCH felt perfect for me.
At the end of Shadowbringer, when the tax was instaured and MCH got rework, I became tired of MCH and decided to move to tanks... Which was a very good call considering EW iteration of tanks.
I got more tired of ShB MCH than SB MCH, that tells a lot.
Maybe make a bit of use for their role abilities, like heavy and bind, implement them in savage fights, release a cool job next expansion, buff mch damage
i'd love juggler to be added to phys ranged, but i am biased not playing the mainline final fantasy games prior to xiv and only playing crystal chronicles and tactics/tactics advanced and there's just something special about a moogle in a clown costume throwing molotovs.
I would think a fun physical range would be alchemist.
Hear me out, alchemists would have a bevy of potions that they have already ready made so they can move and toss potions without having to craft them.
They can be extremely dot as well as explosives as normal damage. They can build fun healing pots for supports and can be extremely support based where they deal good damage and good supports with buffs and such, like a ASTRO version of dps
Kinda ironic that some of the most OP weapons in historically-accurate warfare ended having a lower damage output than almost every other Job/Role in this game... ( T - T )
In all serious though, as someone who's relatively new to FFXIV and trying to figure out what makes every Job stand out from a design & gameplay perspective-thereby slamming my head in frustration over Archer's messy base kit and its lack of synergy with the general Bard rotation-thanks a ton for sharing your experiences and thoughts on what is clearly the most underutilized role in the game
As for a hypothetical 4th Ranged Job, I'd probably go with the Gambler, although my mean reason for this is simply because I hate the RNG aspects of the Archer/Bard kit (curse you _Straight Shot Ready_ / _Hawk's Eye_ and your atrocious 12-35% activation rate) and would rather prefer if the various Repertoire(s) activated from performing certain actions relative to each song instead of just happening without any input over time
In fact, why not make it so the 3 songs Bard has actually modify and empower certain actions in ways relative to the song's name & theming?
(e.g. Mage's Ballad bringing back a more mobile version of Bow Mage via magicked/enchanted arrows, while The Wanderer's Minuet..., well I'm sure we've all seen how practically EVERY Bard main reacted to a certain boss fight from the Myths of the Realm raids)
I've been playing since late Shadowbringers and don't have nearly as impressive of a record as anyone in the video, just a few savage fights (and one tier clear!) under my belt as bard.
I came into this game wanting to be a "support DPS", but right now the job feels like DPS lite, I guess? We have the freedom to skitter around the battlefield w/o worrying about positionals or cast times, but that's the only real standout.
I would absolutely adore more support options. The current song system gives party buffs, why not expound on that? Individual skills that give buffs to the party (or a targeted party member) would be pretty sick imo. Get the AST card mechanic feeling and inject that into bard and I'll be happy!
What buffs? Damage is always fun, but whackier stuff might be cool too. An actual shielding ability for mitigation in tight spots could safe a caster's life if mits were blown earlier in a fight! In the spirit of healing, maybe a Bloodbath-esque buff slapped on a dying melee DPS could save them. Giving ranged DPS support options that have long cooldowns but good impact could completely transform how they're played.
Alternatively, I wouldn't mind abandoning the support aspect altogether if bard just slapped on another DoT or two and became the de facto DoT DPS job. We already have Iron Jaws for reapplication!
Maybe in 8.0 there can be branching paths for job customization with one option having an emphasis on more impactful support abilities while the other more heavily dips into DPS, comparable to but not QUITE as strong as melee DPS. Sure, one would technically be "better" than the other in terms of raw damage, but I think that as long as both are fun to play that's not really an issue for me. I play bard because it's fun, if I wanted to do loads of DPS I'd play something else and have less fun.
Also please please please add more esuna mechanics so paean is used at all. I want to use that button so bad but there's never a reason to.
06:20 and 17:50 are the same