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Behringer PRO 800 vs Prophet 600 // In depth analysis
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ส.ค. 2024
- Download my V1.4.1 patch bank from starskycarr.com
Sound demos here: Behringer Pro 800 Patches
• Behringer Pro 800 Patches
Make your own mind up but watch the video before commenting :) - and don't shoot the messenger! I've nothing invested in this - except the 2 synths! Just going through the motions and demoing the differences.
FYI this was done using firmware 1.2.6. Some updated stuff is included my main manual here:
• Behringer Pro-800 Manu...
** and please forgive the thumbnail ** I couldn't resist. Maybe the title's a little obvious but hey.. I've spent long enough recording and editing the video to spend any more time thinking of a more intelligent title!!
There are some differences, but do they matter? It really depends on what you want from this - if it's an 8 voice analog polysynth for under $400 that leans heavily on the looks, functionality and quirks of the Prophet 600, or if you're looking for a 1:1 likeness of an original Prophet. For some, the things I find in here may be a major turn-off for others they'll be inconsequential minor details ... you decide.
AND let me know what you think.. it's always interesting to see varied perspectives :)
And one for the pedants who'll tell me Brian wasn't Jesus... not a false prophet... read your bibles Matthew 13:54 where Jesus refers to himself as a prophet "A prophet is not without honour except in his hometown and in his own household." ... yeah I did my homework first ;) /// and I realise Brian wasn't a false Jesus, just mistaken for him.... hopefully that catches all that :o
I've bought these myself, so a little support is always appreciated:
/ starskycarr
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• From The Studio
0:00 Prophet 5, 600 bit of background
1:43 Issues with the 600s
3:07 Oscillators - big ticks
7:45 Pulse width - red pen is out
8:27 Filter - you decide
13:24 Filter Mod Depth - Hmmmm
18:04 Envelopes - Always a talking point!
21:30 Poly-Mod - like a Prophet 5?
23:41 Sync - better than others
25:23 LFO range and depth
26:01 False Prophet?
29:12 Sound Examples (from sound only demo)
41:42 Track with only the Behringer Pro-800
#behringer #pro800 #review
Download my V1.4.1 patch bank from starskycarr.com
Sound demos here: Behringer Pro 800 Patches
th-cam.com/video/OHw0MS0RCAE/w-d-xo.html
The Pro 800 is pretty remarkable for the price. They're going to sell a ton of these.
i heard the preorders were phenomenal.
I think they already have done!
In April we were talking 50.000 pre-orders. Might have increased by now.
@@martattacks do you have a source for this number please?
Well there's a new update. It does some cool things such as increase the VCF envelope response range :)
Improvements:
- Increased VCF ENV AMOUNT range
- Increased LFO to VCF modulation range
- Poly AT reimplemented and improved
- Increased range on POLY MODE - FIL ENV
- Added a LPF to the Aftertouch function to smoothen the response and make it more musical
Fixes:
- Reduced Settings save timer from 47 to 3 sec. which solves all issues related to settings not being stored after a power cycling
- Resolved ARP UP-DN issue when only one key is pressed
- Improved LFO target: resolved Ab, A and b settings
- Resolved CC=59, LFO target for Ab, A and b which was related to an issue where LFO target was not working when connected to a DAW
- Resolved voice assign issue to the same note, related to some Yamaha piano instruments
I guess you're back at square one with your analysis :) Or somewhere close to it!
Just updated my Pro 800, and it's pretty awesome! The new response ranges really open up the pro 800! And somehow they managed to retain my presets :)
Pro 800 proves a very important thing, you don't need to buy an aging synth that costs almost 5 times that of the P800 for almost an identical character.
What a great video, much appreciated Clark!!! (see if you get the joke lol)
As in Kent…. Shhhh 🤫
Thanks for the comparison
Good to see the Waveforms
Starsky, you are so cutting edge, and you're always spot on!
Great demo, thank you. Also a very cool track at the end!
Long time no comment! lol great video as always Starsky!
Your American boi over here FINALLY got the call from Sweetwater this morning telling me I'll have it in 2 days!
Couldn't be more hype! Been a long time comin 😂
Excellent work as always I'm enjoying mine 8 voice analog poly for this price that sounds this good is amazing. I listened without watching both your comparison videos everything and sounds great. What matters more than that.
Your music takes me on a journey every time! Love this channel! 🎶🌍
Thanks ever so much.. great to hear. :)
My P800 was delivered this afternoon!! Can't wait to play with it
Takes me back to my tech college days with the Z80 microprocessor, I did a bit of assembly language with RML microcomputers in the classroom, wrote a program which simulated traffic lights with 3 LEDs, happy days! I'm absolutely no whizz at electronics but I owe my career in telecoms to the lecturers at North Trafford College in Stretford❤❤❤❤❤
Great review as ever, Starsky.
I think this is a great option for those after a vintage analog sound. This has a great classic Sequential interface, so clear and well laid out. Very compact too, awesome!
Thanks for the detailed comparison. Interesting stuff, and the P800 sounds great to me. By the time I save up my pennies for it they will have updated the firmware again :)
Loving the thumbnail and the title.... personally I think you've been "a very naughty boy" and not sure you deserve all these fantastic synths 😉😀 Great video as ever Starsky... thanks.
Great track at the end! Keep the great work up!
Great review, these really help me determine if I want to buy something. Appreciated the sneaky “bad gear” reference 😂
Great stuff, Starsky. I have a great Prophet 600, but I could see the use case for the Pro 800 to save space/weight, especially when gigging. The P600 will always sound dirtier and nastier - it really excels at that while the Pro 800 sounds a bit cleaner through the signal path.
Good, in-depth video. Nice bit at the end, too. The B Pro 800 seems like a nice little, analog poly module. The price is attractive. The controls are intuitive and it sounds pretty good. Would I buy one? Maybe, but I'm pretty happy with my current rig and would have to find a fit for the Poly 800 into my workflow. But for the rest of you, it seems like a good buy.
That jam at the end though. Top notch dude!
nice one, cheers
I thought the P600 uses a different filter chip from the P800. Behringer used a cool audio version of the cem 3320 like the P5, but the p600 uses a cem 3372 filter (and more) which has resonance compensation.
Well that explains a lot!
You are right, Coolaudio dont make a V3372 (unfortrunately), so its the V3320 and it explains the filter differences. I hope they can correct the filter/env response in firmware. I am building a P600 rack synth out of an original voice card. And a chorus card from a VS.
As someone who wished Behringer had made a P5 module instead, this discrepancy makes me very happy 😊
23:08 Was surprised to see you smoking (thought mistaken or an edit error) realised it's guest fingers
Wanted a polysynth so sudenly my new guitar funds are gone and PRO-800 is ordered. Very excited 😯thanks for the video
Ha, I recognized that immediately. It’s a cut from Spinal Tap movie! Nigel’s fingers 😂 these go to 11!
Since there were sound affecting changes, I think that mostly explains the differences. All the modern analog synths (including things like DCOs/BDD with analog audio paths) generally have fewer stability issues even with a clone chips, just due to the advances in semiconductor manufacturing.
Hopefully they fix the poly after touch issue with their new firmware with the snapper envelopes.
Got mine two days ago, so nice for dark dub chords 😍. Thanks for the comparison the original is obviously more gritty and has more character.
I have one of the early 600's, I upgraded the chip to a newer OS before the gligli came out which smoothed things out and fixed some midi issues. It was my first synth so I can't get rid of it for nostalgic purposes, I love the digital grit, it has its own sound. but the p-800 does seem quite nice.
One win for the Pro-600 in the Unison. On that sound demo, it sounded the better synth. Smoother and more pleasant sounding.
This is my first behringer purchase. I've been holding off, but I couldn't resist an analog polyphonic synth at this price. Cheers. Oh, it sounds exactly the same as the original, oscillator wise. Amazing. The original definitely has some more vibe to it, in that pulse width and filter part.
same here. I got fed up waiting for Behringer to release the DS80 / UBXa so I plumped for a wonderful Roland JPX. But can't wait to get my hands on a repro of an SCI Prophet. Especially at the price. Wow.
The filter is a huge miss
Hmm, that's strange about the filter amount. Could be a deal-breaker for me - hope they get it sorted out. Nice track at the end, btw.
New firmware appears to have fixed the filter modulation issue, so Pro-800 should sound closer to Prophet 600 now..
Okay, as the guy who flew from San Jose to DC with one of the two 600 prototypes ("You don't need a flight case" Barb F) only to have American Airlines run a forklift through the box, I can say with some degree of experience that the original envelope software on the 600 sucked. However the notorious "soft" front end 80s polysynth was there, articulation was not. The "barking horns" patch off the P5 was one of mine, and there was no way, at the time, to get close with a 600. For some reason engineering ran all the resolution to the back side of the Attack stage. Nowhere in this vid (but I skimmed) did I see a demo of the front end tightness. It used to go "now" and "bwop" with no "zip" in between, particularly from the filter or using unsynced B mod to get that pitch squawk on the front end. That "squawk" is where most sounds get their character in analog impersonations of any instrument (which is what we did before samplers and Romplers). Very few instruments in the real world start out in tune. Clavs, reeds, horns. In fact, prepping for a NAMM demo back in the demo room Dave said, "Phil, oscillator B mod isn't the answer to every patch problem." I said, pointing to a p5, "On this thing it is." I didn't get fired. Regardless - does the Behringer replicate this Attack stage disaster? I don't care about sustain, I'd love the goofy dirty warmth of a 600 with some snot on the front end. Any insight?
What an elaborate in-deep comparison.
For me, the conclusion is clear after hearing the track starting at 41:42
This Behringer module proudly, and rightfully, carries the name Pro-800.
And you sir, are an expert on Sequential poly-mod programming.
The bad part about recreations is that we are comparing it to another synth.
I don’t blame people for comparing them but we shouldn’t do that. A $400 analog poly synth is unheard of.
Good point. The contrast effect
Great price for such a nice synth, but it just reminded me that i want a DeepMind 12D 😁
Great track at the end, by the way. I hit rewind to hear that arp again.
Great vid, I don't really think it's much of a different between these two synths, but that's just my opinion. Don't think somebody listening casually to this would hear a difference
thanks for another great comparison video, hopefully there will be a firmware update which fixes or improves these things. it's on the gas list (lol), hopefully something will change before I get around to picking one up!
What a nice track at the end Mr Carr
Use to love my DX 7 and p600 midied up together, tr808 blipping along in the background,, great times..
Thanks Starsky that was great. Don’t think I’m in market for one of these but my goodness! Really, really tempting for the price!😮. Not sure if you’ve videoed in that place before-maybe a studio tour at some point please?...( ps speaking of videoing, just a minor point, but for next time maybe change lighting a bit as the reflection off your glasses was a bit distracting).
I noticed the reflections but no idea how to get rid of them 🤷♂️🤦♂️
This stuff is ace. Thank you.
Thanks.
For a split second I thought that was Alex Ball on the thumbnail. 😆
Behringer did a darn good job there and offers maximum bang for the buck. Somehow sad that I really don‘t need another ‘Prophet‘.
Me too 😂
Now you come to mention it 😂
The Pro 800 is incredible and most of these issues you mentioned will get fixed with firmware updates.
Bheringer also hade similar Cutoff issues on their MonoPoly clone they later fixed. Good you pointed it out, clearly a range problem.
it is a design choice , not a range problem as such - look at all the ways the vcf can be opened to max using PB wheel, mod, velo or AT alongside the env amt pot -. either way the 0-100 will come in FW so all can be happy 🙂
@@ogasi1798 Cf pot is nothing more a "reference point" for any applied modulation so you want full range as per old school machines so yes its a design error.
Thanks for this. My guess is the filter envelope amount being bipolar (nice feature) is part of the range limitations. My hope is since it is digital control of a digital envelope they can (and will) add a fairly aggressive exponential option to it (in addition to what is probably now linear) so you get really fine amount control from 0 to around 2 then from there up to 5 you end up in the same place as the 600. I do think there is a good chance of ongoing envelope refinements and maybe even additional choices which one would think will include polymod amount.
The p600 is also bipolar…
Hi, I am sure there is a lot of potential in refinement. In the P600 the poly-mod could never be a target because it is paraphonic in that parameter, meaning all voices have the same amount at a given time. In the P800? Most likely the same... But not something I'd complain about.
@@StarskyCarr I'm too.
I honestly think this is close enough to what the p600 is/was and it adds additional features. The discrepancies are small. Bear in mind every p600 probably sounds different now too. Its an amazing poly synth both of em well done again Behringer
My theory is the Pro800 sounds very similar to the 600 Behringer had during development and like you said they all sound different decades later. Besides the filter not being quite as aggressive, it’s pretty close and sounds great in general.
Blindfolded, you'd be guessing which was which.
You have proof of this video that Behringer has done it well!❤
Good Stuff as always 👍
Surprised how much the basic tones are nailed but all the modulation ranges are constrained! It's not that it's bad, exactly, but these old designs need to have that range to get to some of the interesting places, I think. On the upside, I do like that form factor for a polysynth.
The sound difference is hardly noticeable at all. Behringer are doing great job in offering some old classics at affordable prices with more flexibility. That said I don't I would go for a Behringer Jupiter since I already have the JupiterX and it's great.
Hi Starsky! Nice video, as always! I wonder how long it took you to produce it? And there weren't really many alternatives for the thumbnail title this time! 👍🤖
great vid as always fella - just my opinion: p600 has no velo etc and thus relied on the env amt pot for its obvious task.
As we can route the mod wheel, pb wheel, velo or AT to the VCF in addition to the env amt pot to hit the 100% mark it made sense to only allow 50% mod through the bipolar env amt pot (0-5 being 0-50%)🙂 yes there can be a disagreement on this choice made at engineer level but somebody somewhere always has to make decisions when gear is leaving a factory:
The beauty of modern synths is this, changes will happen in future FW to meet the OG env amt pot hitting 100% (among other updates) but then we have to hope folk don't moan that the env amt is -50 to +50 and they don't know what the F is going on and complaining they have a busted synth when they are getting 50% mod @ the zero point or why they can't get specific amounts due to too much range in too small an area..... you know it'll happen 🤣
aah... that makes more sense now .. I hate using velocity for that sort of stuff so it would never cross my mind (will do in future though!). Pinned btw.
@@StarskyCarr i hope i am right in my interpretation of the p600 btw as i am not lucky enough to own it. FTR i know what you mean about velo especially if we were playing drawn out sweeps or chords etc, not sure right now how new implementation will happen but of course your valuable feedback is always welcome and helps bring noise to certain operations 🙂- pro800 has miles in it and will hopefully also serve as a new 'flatbed/template' for other poly modules to follow
@@ogasi1798 for “least surprise” you would want pot ranges to be the same as P600 with velocity depth at zero which would be the default. Then increasing velocity depth would affect the low velocity end, or maybe bipolar around the depth zero situation.
@ogasi1798 The Gligli/Imogen version of the Prophet-600 (the one that is being demonstrated in this comparison) does support velocity (via MIDI). Of course it can't be noticed if the 600 is played at its own keyboard. This analysis should have been done using the same MIDI controller to play both instruments.
@@Synth_Tools using the same midi controller is fraught with issues… not only because it’s difficult to play them quickly one after the other, but simultaneously showing waveforms etc. now if someone was prepared to pay me for spending another couple of days putting it all together that would be different… but there’s only so much time anyone can spend doing stuff for free. I still hope it was useful for someone at least.
What a bargain that thing is,great analysis
MPC One +, Behringer Pro 800, Crave, and Edge will be my setup... Waiting for them to release the Subharmonica clone Spice then that would be added. With the Crave theres no need for me to get a Model D anymore but looks like most of my setup will be Behringer
I've had mine a few days, and I'm enjoying it a lot. There's some menu diving and headscratching. I thought mine was faulty as it kept tuning to a semitone out and I was having to use the extremes of the master tuning. Turns out that I'd transposed it by accident in the global settings.
Haha.. I did exactly the same. Tuned it... tuned it again... scratched my head then remembered I'd done something similar on something else.
I'm not normally a fan of synth modules but a this price it's a no brainer.
Nice laid-back pretty tune at the end. I'm guessing there was a lot of Prophet in Jamiroquai.
GliGli stopped supporting his version but Imogen took over the project and improved GliGli’s firmware even more. I own a ARP Odyssey MK2, Moog Source, Yamaha FS1R and Roland MKS70, but the P600 is my favorite! You can check the sounds created with the P600. ‘Cloud Number Seven’ and ‘Cloud Number Eight’. (swankinc)
Having the P-600 already for ages. Sexy synth with a own sound. The GLiGli update I did remove again. It messed up my original presets, so I kept my P-600 as it is.
It’s a great little synth. The issue for me is that there have been delays delays delays delays for this and many of their other clones. With so much time between announcement and release, there is no reason that these issues shouldn’t be ironed out. It’s not like they’re making a new instrument. It’s a clone, you have the original to compare it to. If you’re going to clone, it needs to be able to everything the original can, exactly the way the original does, or better. Full stop. If the 600 has through 0 PWM the 800 should too. Filter and envelope response should be spot on. Maybe they’re small picks but if you’re going to base your whole synth department around cloning, do it right. 🤷🏻♂️ All that being said it’s a great sounding synth and for the price an easy way to get real vintage poly analog tones on your tracks and in your setup. Hopefully these small differences can be corrected with updates.
Hi Starsk, Love your work bud but please consider lowering the volume of the background music by 30% .😊
Sounds great 👍 😊
Great comparison
cheers.
I'm shocked at how much they didn't nail - they're usually pretty bang on. Still a great value
I’m really happy with it. Great price for a good sounding polyphonic analog synth even if it’s not a proper clone of the 600.
Like what?
nice comparison. surprised to hear much better the prophet 600 sounds - especially the env amount... thanks!
The only reason i can think of for the pulse width not reaching zero - they may have been trying to avoid ‘complete silence’. This is positive for the casual user, but negative for those of us who might want to modulate to 0 width pulses. Maybe some behind-the-scenes cost cutting, too? Behringer are great for making classic gear affordable, but they will have to cut costs in the build and the electronics to do this. If you’re working on sound design, solos or hi-def music, having an original Prophet or Moog might make a subliminal difference.
Pulsewidth going through zero was a trick back then to turn off oscilator sound (Korg Polysix works same way) to be able to play / use filter self-oscilation without VCO playing.
Rest differences are just matter of calibration, I think after firmware update, they will make them sound even closer.
Awesome to hear P600 again, I prefer its sound over P5 rev. 3 (rev. 2 with SSM VCO and VCF is of course different beast :) )
You can also do some cool effects with through zero modulation… like pseudo sequences and delay style stuff.
BRIAN!!!......sorry i could'nt resist!...😇
I love the short reference to Spinal Tap 😂
Are you telling us: "The Pro 800 is *not* the Messiah - he's a very naughty boy..!!"..?
😂
filter mod depth part is like: in the end there must be a certain difference in having a decade long development experience and high class synth dev and a company that tries to copy it and producing with new hardware etc., in good faith tho i guess, but all in all done a good job prbably being at 96% of the original. and the last 4 are partially substantial in making sounds. lets see if behringer deems it worth enough to make an update, which always means putting money into development, that simply cuts the profit
I'm going to ride over before this summer ends just to chat about the importance of LFO, but I want a proper pan of Scouse 🙂
Have you got the Behringer system 100? An in depth video on that would be ace especially the ring mod I can't seem to get that doing anything interesting 🙂
Just curious did the P800 have the latest patch
Hi Starsky,
Any chances of a Pro 800 vs Prophet 5 comparison video anytime soon? Would be really a very useful and interesting one that quite a lot of people would love to see and hear. Thank you!
great video!! so what’s the final verdict on the P600 is it a keeper? Originally you bought it for this comparison, and said you’ve grown quite fond of it. But in all of your other shoot out videos with the take five, P6 , etc, you seem to lean to more of the modern ones for similar functionality. So will the P600 stay and will the prophet 6 or the take five leave?
also have you opened up the pro800 ? are there 16 3340s in there ?
28:23 - Love that reference. ;-)
I sure hope they can update to add range to lfo, env, and poly mod!
Put the 800 through some overdrive effect and they will sound even closer.
I encourage you to kindly make a follow-up video following some firmware upgrades to detail how these have or have not changed your assessment!
I have! 🤫😀 I demo the changes in my ‘manual’ video
@@StarskyCarr oh! Great to hear, I'll check it out forthright!
It'll do until the UBXA appears. Honestly, setting aside the reduced feature set compared to the Prophet 5, the 6/800 has a big advantage over its sibling IMO: The 5 has this EQ thing happening, this upper midrange peak that to my ears makes it slide into a mix nicely, but somehow manages to distract from its bottom end and general juiciness. I always have to listen to the bottom end actively to hear it. It's a big part of why I've always preferred the Oberheim sound. Plenty will disagree with me, but I've always thought these sounded better than the P5.
My P5 exhibits none of that.
@@SPAZZOID100 Yes it does, they all do. It's part of the whole gestalt of that synth. The difference is that you like it while I don't, not that it doesn't exist.
What does the footswitch do?
I don't have the original to compare but what I've noticed in my Behringer Pro-800 is that I can't take certain chords, which are not that uncommon really. For example, some 6th chords which contain a second in it. The polyphony gets limited to 6 or 7, instead of expected 8. To me this indicates that the synth does not have true 8 voices but rather uses some sort of a frequency division technology.
my original does something very strange.. playing an F4 along with a C5 or D5 adds a C#5 !! yuck :)
Thanks alot!
New firmware 1.2.7 = " Increased VCF ENV AMOUNT range" yeah!! ;-)
great video
Thanks!
Cool video as always...thanks Starsky. My unit arrives tomorrow...cant wait.
Did you do the recent firmware update to make the env's snappy?
He did, he replied elsewhere. In any case, a new firmware is in the works and it may add poly-aftertouch.
@@gadjox ok thanks
At 11:37 comparing filter resonance it sounds like the drive into the filter is a little lower on the Pro 800, but unlike the crossfade between oscs on the 600 the 800 has level for each? This is potentially good for flexibility of character.
15:44 filter mod depth - as the mod is digital almost certain this could be changed to increase the range.
I thought the most recent update added snappy envelopes? Was this video made before then?
Excellent! Thank you for this. It is still much for the money
lol Ride 'em cowboy!
I thought that was Alex Balls in the thumbnail 😂
Are the envelopes digital like on the Pro1 by Behringer?
is your name in the update manual?!...wow!
My local music retailer has 302 Behringer products listed on its website, but when filtered by in stock items only, the number is 4
😂😂 oh dear!
More updated info in my main video 'manual' with newer firmware th-cam.com/video/qLR8yiGibDM/w-d-xo.html
Those saying the differences are a deal breaker get real, embrace it for what it is an eight voice polysynth for under 400😮 btw, starsky, whats Alex Ball doing in the thumbnail for this vid 😮😅
Nice outro.🙂
Hi Starsky! I think that 19:00 - these are some quircks in the code. Maybe bad envelope tables. The worst that it can be - a bad ADC (cheap) with low resolution. So if envelopes will not be cutting off then you'll clearly hear steppings. BUT it's JUST my suggestion, not more!
Actually any steppings at low values can be filtered by usual RC (passive) filters... And I believe it's possible to program and use some digital potentiometers for that... So they will only work at some threshold... But actually - it's a lot of hassle around cheaper ADCs :)) Easier to install good 10-12-bit ADCs.
It exactly what the GliGLi envelopes do, and why they were upgraded to the new (non GliGLi) beta for the teensy chip gligli.github.io/p600fw/
Still way better than any poly synth in that price range. $400 USD for 8 voices is a steal.
Maybe dreadbox nymphes
@@vjfxtheory but soundwise it's nice. Ui is confusing. Nymphes has more modulation opportunities and fully midi cc and work with usb power and its light and fits every package.
@@godot5082interface sux.
It's kinda weired why Behringer don't just incorporate all the revision filters and envelopes like Sequential did with the Reissue of the Prophet 5 when they easy could while working with GleeGlee so people could choose what they prefere. Cudos to doong a pretty good emu of all the quircks of the Prophet 600 filters and envelopes. But when they upgraded it already to be 8 Voice instead of 6, why not go all the way. The Synth is already a slam dunk bargain for a real analog modern Polysynth. Only thing I could wish for was that a 2020 Synth had a build in dual Stereo effect with some good retro effects. I could care less that they arent 100% the same sound at eg all knobs set to the same value.I agree that a bigger range in the filter to that extra snappiness of the P600 would be prefearable
For a minute I thought that was Alex Ball in the thumbnail 😂😂
You’re not the first! I haven’t had the heart to tell him though 😀
Was this made before the firmware update?
The filter limitations on the PRO are kinda odd. Hope this is fixable with the firmware. Otherwise nice try, from Uli.
I thought they updated the envelopes?
@@ghost_mall where I find the menu for that?