my twin brother and I are currently 16 and I have a 1964 Pontiac tempest lemans with the GTO package with a 389, while my brother owns a 1976 Pontiac trans am with a 400. The 389 is running the Pontiac 068 cam, the 400 is running the summit 2801. We haven’t started them yet because we just now finished the rebuild for both motors. Eventually we will race against each other yes. Pontiac ROCKS!
One thing I would add is that the 041 cam is designed to be run with the 1.65 ratio rocker. That was standard on the RA-IV. It will make a little more power than your simulation is showing due to 1) more lift, but more importantly 2) the bigger ratio rockers make the ramps faster by reaching .050 and higher lifts faster.
This is an excellent point - I've ran into "issue" engines that were RA-IV. It seems some came with longer valves to make up for the extra requirements of the lift. Most OEM replacement cams for the 041 are available in similar grind with 1.5, though it wouldn't be the exact same as a 1.65 setup.
The 041 camshaft came out in the 1968 Ram Air II 400 with 1.5:1 rocker arms. It does call for adjustable rockers, for two reasons, one for the lift, that reduces the base circle of the cam lobes and the other is the original lifters were reduced travel, anti-pump up lifters. With regular lifters and the stack up of machining and gasket thickness, some get away with the bottle neck studs with the 041, but not recommended. Longer valves are not required, but were used with taller valve springs by the factory and with longer push rods. It works fine with standard length valves and push rods. The Ram Air IV added 1.65 rocker arms and an aluminum intake manifold and the heads have to be machined for 1.65 rocker arms. Install the 041 camshaft 4 degrees advanced and see how it runs. The Lunati version is 2 degrees advanced and recommends an additional two degrees of advance. The Crower version has the same cam lobes, but with 112 degrees lobe separation and is 4 degrees advanced. Crower has a good line of dedicated Pontiac camshafts. The 221/229 is most popular. The 218/226 is a computer enhanced version of their ld 221/229 cam, with more aggressive cam lobes. The 228/235 is torquer than the 041, while making the same power. The Summit 224/234 is good one and was Edelbrock's second choice to the 041. The Speed Pro 224/234 is the 112 lobe separation version of the Summit cam, Speed Pro part number, Speed Pro CS1175R. Lunati has some of the best Pontiac valve springs and 10 degree keeper retainers to match them.
interesting video, but a few things are off- 6x-4 heads are not 7 to 1 heads, 6x-8 heads are, the 6x-4 head is around 8.2:1 on a stock engine with smog pistons, and the 6x-4 heads are one of the best flowing D-port head, that is why everyone uses them on a budget build, they flow well, respond well to porting, and being an emission head, are an early fast burn design. also, no need for diff. pushrods if using a 1.65 rocker. hp is also a little off as some calculations are missing info-44yrs in the business, and over 300 pontiac engines under my belt, a 406, 8.7/9.0:1 compression, 6x.4 heads,RA 4 cam, 1.5 rockers, performer RPM intake, re-worked q-jet, headers- i get around 410/420hp, 430/450lbs torque. the summit 2901/2802 is a comp cam, was a good cam, and made good power, but you couldn't make me use 1 with a gun to my head, comp cams flat tappet cams are junk, close to 50% failure rate if not more, i use American sticks in my engines now-
Ah, working on my 1947 Dodge Power Wagon mounted on a 1997 Dodge 2500 4x4 12 valve 5 speed Dana 80 rear truck. Chassis has a 6 inch lift kit and running 47 inch tires, re-arching rear fenders to match arc of tires and making front fenders wider to cover tire width. Working out well so far.
I am running 068 cam in my Pontiac bored0.040 over stroked .25" dished pistons compression 9.5. 3.36:1 rear end. ported heads and intake. very happy and great street manners.
@@LSxHunter went with the1.5 rockers. might get a little more hp with the 1.65 but didn't feel it was with the cost on this build. running 16 heads on it.
To be honest you really might be in the sweet spot with the ported heads and the stock lift. I was just talking with another builder about low-lift and good heads.
I just found this video, but i'll post anyway. My daily driver is a 72 Lemans. I'm not going to put a cam in it right now. It just turned 89,000 miles. Not a speck of rust on it and nothing broken on it. I'll wait for a repair to make any changes.
Thanks for the videos. Im running a 65 389 in my gto. Just took off the stock 4 bbl (edelbrock1406) and 067 cam and put on a tripower and Spotts 068 high lift cam. I think this is he same cam as the 2801 as soecs on paper are the same Has a really nice midrange punch. Perfect if you want a streetable cam with a relatively stock engine.
Just picked up a 76 Grand Prix a couple months ago. It has the 185hp 400-4bbl engine, which Im hoping to boost up power, considerably! Hoping to find a good set of higher comp heads like #13s, and already have a Performer RPM intake, and a set of Hooker 4701 headers. Then I need to decide which cam. Would prefer to keep costs low, but worse come to worse, spend the money and get the performer RPM cam. Probably will eventually get some better rods, as theyre the Pontiac’s Achilles heel.
1973 Pontiac Firebird! Recently bought a motor, '68 400 2 barrel, hoping to use some 6x heads, a fuel injection intake, a cam, pair it with a 2004r and hopefully make a nice cruiser! If I don't fall through the floors on the highway.. I don't have a lot of money, so I'm trying to just throw it together for now. Hope this can help me find a cam for the build.
Back in the day we would use the 041 cam 1.65 rockers and rhoades variable duration lifters. All of this on a 455 with 6x4 heads 3.42 gears, will put a 3400 pound firebird deep in the 12s in a quarter mile.
As much as I love the 041 cam if you're willing to deal with some drivability issues its hard to not love a 2802. We've got a few "bench" cams we'll be throwing at the 350 in 2021. If I don't hit 12s in one of the cars next year I'm going to be salty.
@@LSxHunter Use the rhoads lifters with the 041 and the vacuum and drivability issues go away. Low end torque is noticably better too. Its and old Jim Hand trick.
My 1969 428 has the 067 cam with a .410” lift. I added Ram Air IV rocker arms. My lift went up to .450.” I put a 2 4-barrel manifold on equipped with Carter AFBs. It ran AMAZINGLY well! Very fun engine!
My 400 is bored 0.030. Has old TRW flat top pistons. Running a Summit 2801 cam. My engine cam with #16 heads but I have swapped out to 6X-4 heads. Heads have been ported and shaved 0.060. Using stock valve setup with Comp Cams roller tip rockers. Intake is an Edelbrock Performer dual plane with a Holly 770 CFM carb. Headers are three tube type. Manufacturer Unknow. Late model HEI with a curve kit. Turbo 400 transmission with modified valve body. Light stall converter. 3:55 gears out back. I figure it's about 9.25 compression and will make about 325 HP. I followed Pontiac guru Jim Hand on this build. Jim has actually had real world experience racing Pontiacs starting in the 1950's. In family station wagons no less ! Once I can get a base chassis dyno run or a set of runs laid down at the strip, I'll know where I'm at. I was hoping to get into the high 13s with this setup. I will probably go with a bigger manifold, 650 Holly or modified 850 CFM Qjet. Ram Air exhaust manifolds. Ford 9 inch rear end.
The RA 2 and RA 4 motors were round port exhausts and they did have longer valves and better springs than the HO 400 motors. Thats how they could accept the higher lift. The Pontiac heads do not flow well past .500 lift unless work is done- a lot of it. Factory RA 744 cams are good as are the 041 especially if it a "Blueprinted" style cam meant for NHRA stock eliminator.
I have a 461 cid Pontiac 4.155X4.25, Mahle -22 dish pistons ,6.8" rods, Speedmaster 281 heads, summit 2801 with 1.65 rockers , Static comp. is 10.2:1 Dynamic is 9.46:1. But no one considers the rockers 10 % more lift, What Should my initial timing be,? Mechanical? Vacuum? Would you plug it in ti your machine, Please
I found it very interesting reading your recomendations, realizing how close I'd come to the "ideal" set-up in my '68 F'bird, back in the day, ca.1970-75. I had a '69 4-bolt main 400; I added the 744 cam & springs, roller timing chain, ported the heads with competition valve job w/street seats, P.C. teflon seals, polylocks, RA IV valves, pushrods, guide plates, oil pump, rejetted & rodded Q'Jet, recurved distributor w/36-38°, and HD/RA (Y-type) exh. manifolds w Camaro "Off-Road" chambered true dual exhausts. Car used a w.r. Muncie w/Hurst Comp-Plus, a 12-bolt 3.55 ltd. slip, and manual '69 frt. disc brakes w/Velvetouch metallic rear drums, Z-28 wheels w/RA I center caps, F60-15 T/A's, '69 T/A hood, T/A sway bar, Z/28 frt. spoiler, and SW guages. Car was Verdoro Green w/ black deluxe interior, and, rare for the time, factory AM/FM. This was my street racer/ daily driver. From a 750/800 rpm idle, I could slowly let out clutch in 4th, and car would motor away smoothly as if an automatic. But from 3200-6000 acceleration was a non-stop increasing rush, and my self-imposed shift point of 6200 was more because I didn't want to enter "hand grenade" territory, which I reckoned was 6500-ish, and not because the engine was done. The car was light at 3350 with only v.r. pwr. steering, and me in the seat. I feared pretty much only Hi-perf 427s & Hemis. Recalling opening up growing leads on 440-Six Pack Challengers still brings a smile to my face. I will say that my impression is, that 'though there were many street racers & "super cars" on the roads then, it seemed as if only a minority of them kept their cars carefully "dialed-in" in a super-tuned state, and THAT was often a crucial factor in many street races.
Back in the day, in the 70s, I helped my friend rebuild his 64 GTO 389 engine. Along with that, we installed an Isky 280 hyd cam and lifters with the associated springs. It was a straight drop in cam. The specs were 280 duration 108 lobe center 440 lift and both intake and exhaust. At idle it did “talk”, but it really came to life above 1500 rpms . Later in the 70s I did work at Isky cams and Ed Iskenderian told me the biggest problem was hot rodders tended to over cam the engine and not consider the efficiency of the head flow. He in fact said on the street was to slightly under cam the engine so it would be better street performance. Thank you for the posting, it was good to see a Pontiac enthusiast.
A camshaft is but one part of the puzzle. Head flow / comp ratio / intake type / carb / stall / gear ratio / tire size are all factors. Very difficult or impossible to find a " one cam fits all".
Dyno proven Pontiac 400 cid 400+ HP 470 TQ cam. 400 w/ oem 72cc d-port cylinder heads ie #62/16 etc. (9.5-1 to 9.70-1 compression) Crower 60916 hyd flat tappet ran with 1.65 rocker arms. Specs w/1.50 rockers: .455”/.470” @.050 221/229 adv 278/289 LSA 112. w/1.65 rockers .500”/.516” lift. Dyno In California recorded 405 HP @5400 rpm 470 TQ @4100 rpm. Kauffman Racing in Ohio recorded 419 HP @5400 rpm and 470 TQ @4100 rpm. *** Performer RPM intake Holley 750 carburetor. The engine pulls a solid 15-16 hg of vacuum at a 900 rpm idle.
The 066 cam wasn't used in two barrel engines. It came out in 1965 with the newer, more aggressive 75% cam lobes. It was used in automatic transmission 4 barrel engines from 1965 through 1969. The two barrel cam was the old 70% cam lobe two barrel cam, that was used even before 1965. In 1970, 4 barrel engines went to the manual transmission 4 barrel 067 cam, even with automatic transmissions, for improved emissions. The 4 barrel 326 engine used the older two barrel camshaft. The long stroke 455 isn't well suited for the close lobe centers of 066 and the 455 does better with the 067 and its wider lobe centers.
Anyone? Rebuilding my 400 has performer intake,4 barrel carb,hei, headers and just 5c-8 heads 101cc came with 066 cam.what cam will work for my setup or just get stock cam again? Stock cam 066 or will something else work better? Oh and stock converter.
The factory 068 and 041 cams, while yes they clearly run, they were designed 50+ years ago for the 400 cid. There are so many better, modern lobe designs currently available. Folks are leaving a lot of power on the table.
I have a stock 400 4 speed with ram air 3 heads edelbrock rpm performer intake with the edelbrock performer rpm cam #7157 Could you do a output of the combination??
1977 Pontiac Grand Prix with 75’ 400 block. .030 over rpm intake Ram air exhaust 2500 stall. I may look into this 2802 summit. That’s what I’m looking for I believe. Have the 46 heads
NOW how about comparing Comp Cam extreme cam line and Crane Cams 112 lca versus these cams? I remember reading a Book that stated Pontiac v8s do well with 112 lca. I'm just wondering how this would play out with a 455, which is essentially a small valued Pontiac v8, because the valves going from the 400/428 to a 455, hasn't been upsized.
Me and my dad are working on a 77 Pontiac Firebird Smokey and the bandit baby. Doesn’t have the original engine but it does have a 400 from a 74 Firebird. Sounds super nasty but want to make it sound nastier.
so, i have a 65' 389 in pieces and a 68' pontiac 350 with #16 heads between a 65 GTO intake. i want to build my 389 up for a high speed cruiser & daily driver, but for the time being the 350 will do. got it for 300 bucks and cannot complain.
@@LSxHunter please for the love of God, use your platform to dissuade people from inflating the prices of pontiac stuff. Some people are putting absolutely ridiculous prices on things. Hopefully that doesn't come off harsh, lol.
@@LSxHunter yeah man, a smog 400 with 5C heads in unknown condition from a 77 Grand Am sedan is NOT worth 900 bucks. There's another TH-camr who paid that for a siezed 1975 400 and that shit made me cough up my drink upon hearing what he paid. Ugh, I'm ranting at this point. I love your channel, the information you provide is a godsend.
I’ve got a bare block from a 1968 GTO that’s sitting in the garage - the dude offered me $900 for it. I’d be lying if I said I’m not considering the offer. The biggest issue in my mind now is Pontiac parts have almost become exotic to most people even through you can order them from almost anywhere. Appreciate you checking out the channel - if there’s anything you’d like to see focused on just let me know!
041/Ram Air 4 absolutely sucks in a 400 unless you build it with high compression, high stall/clutch and deep rear gears 3.90+ 041/Ram Air 4 w/1.65’s is a great cam for a 10.0-1 455+
My motor is a 1969 WW 4 bolt main Ram Air IV 406 with a forged steel crank out of 1961 389 Super Duty soon to get H beam rods from Butler and J/E flat top pistons. Heads now are 1967 / 670s 2.111/ 1.600 with Ram Air IV valves but am really thinking about a pair of aftermarket aluminum tunnel port V round port heads. Currently have a Crane 284 hyd. cam in it, (not happy at all with it.) but I think I will go back to old faithful the pre 72, Sig Erson 500 HLH, .505 lift ,308 Der on a 108 C/L. what a beast of a cam in a 400 ! only bad part is water temp hit's the roof with it. The motor is for my 1968 Firebird 400 / 4 sp.Convert (yeah a real one) with 4:11s
Was just trying to order the Crane 289641 cam and it is apparently no longer available. I have already decided that I really want to go the roller route and have my hydraulic roller lifters already (HT2148B) that you recommended in a more recent video. Anyway, I think I've found a replacement cam (Lunati 20510712) and was wondering what your thoughts are on it. Thanks again, Patrick
I used the HO Racing HC-04 cam (?) with Rhodes lifters & ported #48 RA III heads with 1.65 roller rockers. Advertised duration was 308/320, or 244/252 @ .050". Great combo. I installed it 4° advanced. Best conventional cam for the Pontiac, IMHO.
@@apachebill Thapnks 4 the correction; HC-03, not HC-04. It was a long time ago. I had the Norris Aerosteel SS roller rockers, with the 1.65 ratio, so perhaps the .510 lift was .551...?
I am building a 1969 428 (bored .030 over to 433-ish) with 1968 #16 Heads. Cam recommendations? I'm looking to build a street car (my '68 F-bird) with some balls and I want a mean-sounding idle. I'm leaning 041 with Rhodes lifters. I'm also concerned about my block/head combo having too much compression. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
I thought I heard you mention the 744 but didn't run that one. I'm surprised because that was the Ram air III cam for manual transmissions in 69. Story goes they switched over to the 068 even for the manuals later in 69??? I don't know the real truth but I know for certain that I had a 744 in my 69 GTO from the factory. It was a very good cam but you would certainly need a stall converter in an automatic car.
Love your video, but it was all Greek to me. I have the Pontiac 400 engine. It was recently rebuilt and they put in COMP CAMS .218/.224 - .462/.470 @.50 W/ 1.110 LOBE SEP. CAM, COMP CAMS DUAL TIMING CHAIN, COMP CAMS SOLID HYDRAULIC LIFTERS. What can you tell me about this combination?
Thanks for watching! That cam setup should be a good all around performer. The 218/224 cams should still give a solid bump over the stock cams. Should have plenty of vacuum for power brakes too. What heads are you slapping on there?
1959 Chevy impala builds working on this engine for it trying a Two-way Differential rear.Racing Silent Block balance that keep it for what night are day battle off at any race track.....my web.,.?!
Nice job, way to put some insight out about cam selection. I'm currently working on my 1967 Tempest convertible. Owned it since 1984. Also have a 1967 Tempest hardtop and a 65 Barracuda.
what are your thought on the Voodoo 10510701 Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 256/262 Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 213/219 Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .455/.468 LSA/ICL: 112/108 thinking on putting this in my 72 400 in my 72 Catalina with the Kuafman head 85cc
Great video. Thanks for sharing your research. I'm currently restoring my '67 LeMans that I've owned since 1974. 2 Dr. hardtop, Red with Black vinyl top and Red interior. Bucket seats, console and 3 speed (Dearborn) with factory Hurst shifter.
I'd look into either Jones Cam Designs or David Vizard's program to spec a cam. These old school designs are out of date and the extra money spent to get a proper cam on proper lobes with the right LSA is worth the extra effort
I'm a Pontiac lover who is without a project at this time. If I ever do build another hot rod I'm probably going to go with a 455 Buick just because of the cost factor. A rebuildable 455 Pontiac costs about $1000. I can find rebuildable 455 Buick engines for $400. Pontiac V8s have about a dozen different head castings to choose from and the cost just keeps going up. That makes the Buick more attractive because the only difference between the popular Stage 1 heads and any 455 Buick head is the valves and springs. The Buick heads have bigger valves, better flow, combustion chamber design and spark plug location. If money were not a factor I would definitely go Pontiac all the way.
Hi was wondering if the 041 cam is a good selection for my 428 motor comes from a 69 GP now currently running torker intake 750 holley headers and 62 heads would I also need a stall also would it have a rough idle Thanks buddy
I have #16 heads(small valve) and am looking at my options for rebuilding. Pros/Cons for converting to Roller rockers/lifters. What cam will allow me to still run pump gas with this 10:1 static ratio?? I have press in rocker studs, so I probably need to convert those to screw in. Changing my intake to Edelbrock Performer and Ram Air III style exhaust manifolds. Thanks for any advice you might lend. Thanks, Patrick
Rollers will give you a LITTLE more power up top but the bigger thing is the advantage of less stress on components. That said, if you're running an OD transmission you won't be constantly at 3,000RPM like the old days. It's really hard to say the specific cam but I'd look for something with a high duration. We're building a higher RPM 350 and not planning on changing to screw-ins. For a 400 the small valves will probably struggle (180-200cfm), you can hand port them for a little more success, if I were going to put money into them I'd look for good 6X-4s for under $500 and have the large valves + the screw in studs. If you wanted to get them milled from there to 85cc they'd put you in a fairly happy spot. At 10:1 static I'd run 93 octane without thinking about it.
Working on my 1968 GTO. The plan is to rebuild the drive-train this winter, so have been checking out lots of videos to get an idea what I am getting into that how much I want to attempt to do myself. Great videos, keep them coming!
@@LSxHunter Mostly just a street/cruise car. Some highway getting to car shows(75 miles or less) Currently have 3.36 gears, so even with the turbo 400, she is only turning about 3200 at 65 which seems fine so far.
@@chrisharrison3245 COMP Cams High Energy Camshafts CCA-51-413-11 Camshaft, Hydraulic Roller Tappet, Advertised Duration 264/270, Lift .487/.495, Pontiac, V8 This was a good fit with my cast iron heads due to the limited lift available.
041 is a great cam....in a 455. It requires lots of compression and gear in a Pontiac 400. What knucklehead would run a 400 with 6X-4 heads WITHOUT milling the heads to 85-87 cc and zero decking the block? BTW... what works on a desk top sumo DOES NOT mean you will actually see these gains in REAL LIFE.
Its a fairly common practice to keep costs low and use cheap fuel. Would I personally set up a 6X head for myself? No. I'm a e85 and 10.5:1 guy. We see these set up with basic 6Xs constantly in later 2nd gens.
Hi, im fixing up my 400 engine in my 1967 grand prix, 10,5:1 compression and 670 heads. Thouts on cam to bring it over 400hp. It Will run on 95 octane. Sorry for the spelling, i Am Swedish
I have a 70 Firebird 350 with a stock automatic, 3:08 gears and original heads. I don’t race much but need a bit more power. What cam would you recommend?
For the 350 the Sum-2800 or 2801 would likely do you well. They’re not crazy cams but are an improvement over most stock ones. If you wanted to keep in the original lineup look for a 067ish cam. If you’re wanting to drive it on a regular basis I’d probably shoot for the 2800.
I have a some questions. If you were to maximize a 400 (Pontiac) for ultimate air flow, how much milling of the heads would you go? With the torker 2 port matched. I have the holley 750 carb and was thinking of going back to the original rochester carb buit to high performance specs. And I was curious to know if there's a big difference between 3:42 and 3:73 gears. Just want to make best with what I have.
It really depends on the heads - 6x8 heads you can get away with usually around .060" of milling which should get you do to roughly 85cc in the chamber. Another major part is the raw air flow of the cylinders. Most 6X heads end up around 211cfm @ .500 lift but with the right port job you can get 230+cfm. As far as the gearing goes it really depends on your goals, transmission, weight, and tire size. Personally I like the 3.42 gears for most applications.
Pontiac V8's respond to same cam grinds as a SBC 400... Summit K2801 214/224 cam/lifters is like a modernized Pontiac TriPower cam... K2802 224/234 is like a Chevy 350 HP 350" cam... (can do up to 435 HP in a properly built Pontiac engine with better heads)... Jegs has same grinds as Summit for about $10 less... they no longer carry the 234/244 grind for Pontiacs which is similar to 'Ram Air V' 500 HP cam/Edelbrock Performer RPM cam, but they may still be available at a low price on eBay, Amazon, Sears, etc... Ram Air V was only over the Pontiac Parts counter DIY parts or crate engine using heads with round tunnel intake ports... some dealers may also have offered to install it (but no warranty)...
The RPM cam is an 041 RA IV copy, the 2802 is a 744 RA III copy. The RA V had a different valve layout like a nail head or FE Ford as in EI EI IE IE rather than the usual D and round port EI IE EI IE layout. That means the V cam will not work without the V heads. The thing Pontiac engines REALLY like is a tight LSA, 108 to 110 rather than the 114 and wider of the stock cams. Its all about where they make their power. The runner length, port cross section, valve inclination angle, valve size, and the port shape is different enough from the chevy 400 to the Pontiac 400, that what works in one won't work the same in the other. Sure those cams will improve things in either engine, but its all about *where* they make their torque and how much of it that matters. The Pontiac will make more torque between idle and 4500rpm, due to port length and size which increases velocity. The chevy needs more RPM to start making power, the heads flow more CFM but they are lazy at low lift/RPM and the ports are short which moves the RPM range where torque is best produced. Thats why the chevy needs more gear than a Pontiac, and why most Pontiacs go slower when someone thinks they are the same as or close enough to a chevy and builds them like one. Its even worse with a 455 running iron heads, because the airflow above 5800rpm simply isn't there, but the torque it makes between idle and 5000 dwarfs that of chevys of any factory size. The chevy will need a 3.73 and up whereas the Pontiac 455 will run essentially the same with a 2.73 to 3.55 gear, and lose at least 1mph with a 3.73 and gain no ET, then slow down more and more as more gear is put behind them. The 400 can use a 3.08-3.73 but more than that starts doing the same thing, killing mph and ET... unless of course, you increase the airflow above 270cfm, crank up the compression and throw more duration at it. The 670 headed 455 in my 3750lb 79 Formula slowed from 11.40s@120 to 12.1@114 by going from a 3.42 gear to a 4.10 both turning a 28" tall tire, with the same UD 288/296 cam, and 2200 stall. It was all done before 1000ft and turning 6000rpm for the last 330ft with the 4.10. With the 3.42 it pulled harder, ran faster in the 1/8 by .4 and even 60ft better than the 4.10. I put the 4.10 in to slow it down, because back then 11.99 was the cut off point requiring a roll bar, and I didn't have the funds to put one in. Been building and racing Pontiac engines, and beating lots of chevys, since 1986. There are five 455s in cars right now, three 461s, a 467 Butler did for me while I was deployed(its kinda sick with 650ftlbs at 3000 and 700+ftlbs at 4500 on pump gas), and five more 400s in my yard. Four of the 400s that are ready to go are waiting for me to get the car done. I've built chevys too, and they respond to similar things but are different in what they do. Its all about port length and velocity.
It depends on how much octane booster you can afford. Compression ratios on 400s can vary from 7.6:1 to over 10.5:1 Avoid the 1967 400s with closed chamber heads.
Hi! Currently building a '65 389 for my '65 gto. I've got a fresh short block bored .060 over and 10:1 c.r. with factory stroke. I plan on running the stock cast iron "76" heads with tripower. I am still unsure on a cam though. Ive heard good things about the 068 and the 744 cam. Thoughts?
For that combo I'd go with the milder 068 - the '65 era heads aren't known for moving a ton of air so you might as well take advantage of the velocity and torque. The longer duration of the 744 might hurt you out of the hole with the 389 until 2400-2600 rpm. The only other consideration I'd make is changing out the heads to the later style. If you're going with a "stock" rebuild porting those heads would pay BIG dividends.
building a junk yard find lemans into a gto clone. AKA my own murder goat. at least thats the plan. thanks for videos like this, had no idea what cam i should be looking for before this.
Pontiac made great factory exhaust manifolds, similar aftermarket ones are good .. RARE have the biggest outlet 2.5". Dual exhaust, the 068 cam or the mild summit cam he recommended. If it's a 4 bbl, leave it alone, if not, get the factory 4 bbl or edelbrock performer and a q-jet.
working on a 1979 trans am with a 1973 400 engine in it and and turbo 400 trans. we need to put a cam in it as one of the lobes it dead and we are getting no compression on on the cyl due to that. we want to put a high compression flat tappet cam that has better duration and lift than the factory cam we are not going to take it to the track or put a blower on it. thinking about investing in some high flow heads but that would be allot of extra cash. if we did that i would want to go roller cam to get the most out of it, but honestly me and my dad are just looking for maybe 450 foot pounds around 3 grand.
Before you go roller check out the video we'll be posting later on this week. We have a solution to make a roller-lifter Pontiac a little more cost effective and more reliable. Personally I'd spend some time porting the heads you have to make some power on the cheap.
@@LSxHunter we have the wimpy 7J2 heads and i guess it would be better to just replace them with a better option. To be honest having it running sounds best at this moment. I have been told that the 6X heads are better but we are debating getting aluminum heads that come with valves and springs and porting is offered as well. Worked on it tonight and got hung up removing the heads. there are two bolt heads that are really hard to head at because the pipe bends back over the bolt head making it super tough to get at.
For a street 455 the cams will act at a lower RPM. If i was going to drive the car on a regular basis I'd opt for the 2801, its basically a 068 cam with a TAD more lift. The 041 might give you a little extra power but you might have to contend with head issues.
455 with mildly ported 6X 4s and a Crower 606919 cam. It's basically a RA IV that better on the street. I ran 12.40s with that set up in my Ventura and a 3.23 gear. Make sure you port match the performer intake to the gasket. They tend to be a little off on the intake port.
@@LSxHunter I run a Crane Commander III (close to the Summit 2802) in a 400 Pontiac and its really not bad at all. It's suppose to be killer in a 455!!!! I used the car as a daily driver The cool thing is it does 0-60 ft in 1.60s and 0-60 mph in 3.4 seconds with non ported #16 heads on pump gas. It also has stock rods. Napa Autoparts built the short block in 1991 for $999 . It never gets over 175 degrees and does the 1/4 in 12.5 seconds and thats a 3810 lb race weight. Remember non ported #16 heads on pump gas. So then I added a 150 shot of Nitrous and have done 11.75 running pig rich on the wide band!!! Below 10. Not bad for a basically cheap stock rebuild with non ported heads and a heavy car. Fastest MPH in the 1/4 was 107.7 without nitrous and 119 with. I also shift this car on a regular basis at 6500 and have been doing it for 30 years!!! Its rediculous to limit yourself with low compression heads when you have way better choices for "PERFORMANCE CAMS" if you stick with the factory 10-1 Compression.
Sounds like a great setup! That's no light car to be moving! I could see it being good in a 455 or 461 stroker - the 461 is typically where we see guys also make the jump to aluminum heads though!
Working on a 73 Pontiac Ventura, chassis off the frame restoration (power coated and reinforced) it’ll have a Pontiac 400 11:1 mild cam, turbo 350 trans, Dana 60 rear end with 325 Possi 🤘🏻
@@LSxHunter also wanting a (modest) cowl hood, when I was younger I thought they looked ugly on the Ventura (Raised V) but now I’m liking it! I got the car in Scottsdale Az (rust free 😉) I got it as a starter car because I am young and it’s a post car (unlike the true Nova)
Hello, I have a 1979 Pontiac Trans Am with the W72/400. It is a 4 speed with a 323 gear. It has Ram Air 2.5 manifolds, full 2.5 exhaust with X-Pipe, performance Quadrajet rebuild, and recurved distributor. I do not wish to raise compression, so heads are stock originals. Can you give me some flat tappet cam recommendations? Plz explain pros and cons for each. Thanks in advance!
Off the top of my head I would heavily suggest a MEL-SPC7. This is a Melling 068 replacement cam. This will give you OEM driveability and reliability at the expense of high end power. Another good option would be a Melling SPC3. This is basically a 744 Camshaft. Kinda like the 068 but with more duration. You might need a hair more stall than factory to compensate for the losses under 2k.
Reminder, my car is a 4 speed with a 323 gear. You peeked my interest with the 2801 and the 2802. Also had someone recommend and com 268h. Can you elaborate on these 3? Thanks
Even being a 4 speed I would likely still reach for a lower-lift cam in a fairly stock configuration. The 2801 is the safe bet out of the two - it should be within 5hp through most of the curve right along side the 2801. The 2802 should out perform the 268h after 2500rpm due to the lobe separation angle difference and the longer duration on the 2802. The 2802 isn't recommended for low-compression engines but plenty of people do it. Your gearing might make up for the short comings of the 2802 down low. Personally, I'd check the valve spring travel and run the 2802. For other people I recommend the 2801 as it is a "safer" cam due to the smaller lift. You can always put 1.65 rockers on to up the lift later as well.
I have a 535 also with SD Performance top end Edelbrock heads that are cnc ported, let me know if you want his recommendations to a computer designed cam
Hey mike, My heads flow almost 350cfm and I had a big Solid roller which I just took out as I want to street drive my Judge now and not just run at the track. Dave spaced out this cam for my combo to have maximum power for street driving. The cam is hydraulic roller and I’m installing short travel Johnson lifters. He designed it with 5 degrees advanced, hope this helps you
I have a 77 Trans Am. It has the 500577 block. I would like 425 -450 horsepower. Would this block be able to handle this? What cam would you recommend? Currently, I have a Stage 3 Lift cam. It's a special cam from Competition Cams. I purchased it through Sandoval Performance. I remember it's similar to a Ram Air4. I do have the stock heads. It has 1:52 Scorpion Rocker Arms. Coan Torque Converter. An Edelbrock Torker 2 manifold. A Holley 750. It has 3:42 gears. Eventually, I want to get a hood scoop kit. And get new exhaust. I plan on getting Ram Air Exhaust manifolds. What I'm looking for is a upper 12 - low 13 second Street car. I was thinking of having the manifold and heads to be port matched. How about a 3 angle valve job? What do you think?
I would personally - yes. Many people will tell you the webbing is too thin to push the 577 blocks but people tend to have issues around 550-600. I don't see why you couldn't smack 12s with 400hp in a properly set car. 3-angle valve jobs are always a good thing. Any idea what the cam specs are? I'd assume it'd be set up perfectly for a 5200-5500rpm peak with a good high duration, high lift cam and a torker 2. I'd think you're right where you want to be. The only thing that might hold you back is the Ram Air exhaust manifolds. They've been known to outflow headers AND be more restrictive than the log manifolds due to the primitive sand-casting process. Pretty easy to know though, if they look clean inside with no major flashing you're gold.
@@scottteeselink6251 yes and no. Due to the old style of sand casting they are extremely varied in their flow characteristics. If you look into the manifolds you'll either a nice smooth pathway OR a flashing mess. The more used a sandcasting is the more it breaks down at the parting lines causing flashing. As far as the cam goes, there are two modern grinds for the 068 cam. One with .410 lift, which is equal to 1.5 ratio or the .470 which is about equal to using 1.65 ratio rockers, but still using 1.5 rockers, it just has more lift at the cam instead of the rockers.
my twin brother and I are currently 16 and I have a 1964 Pontiac tempest lemans with the GTO package with a 389, while my brother owns a 1976 Pontiac trans am with a 400. The 389 is running the Pontiac 068 cam, the 400 is running the summit 2801. We haven’t started them yet because we just now finished the rebuild for both motors. Eventually we will race against each other yes. Pontiac ROCKS!
One thing I would add is that the 041 cam is designed to be run with the 1.65 ratio rocker. That was standard on the RA-IV. It will make a little more power than your simulation is showing due to 1) more lift, but more importantly 2) the bigger ratio rockers make the ramps faster by reaching .050 and higher lifts faster.
This is an excellent point - I've ran into "issue" engines that were RA-IV. It seems some came with longer valves to make up for the extra requirements of the lift. Most OEM replacement cams for the 041 are available in similar grind with 1.5, though it wouldn't be the exact same as a 1.65 setup.
Unfortunately the 041 cam is still slow acting compared to the faster accelerating lobes available today.
The 041 camshaft came out in the 1968 Ram Air II 400 with 1.5:1 rocker arms. It does call for adjustable rockers, for two reasons, one for the lift, that reduces the base circle of the cam lobes and the other is the original lifters were reduced travel, anti-pump up lifters. With regular lifters and the stack up of machining and gasket thickness, some get away with the bottle neck studs with the 041, but not recommended. Longer valves are not required, but were used with taller valve springs by the factory and with longer push rods. It works fine with standard length valves and push rods. The Ram Air IV added 1.65 rocker arms and an aluminum intake manifold and the heads have to be machined for 1.65 rocker arms. Install the 041 camshaft 4 degrees advanced and see how it runs. The Lunati version is 2 degrees advanced and recommends an additional two degrees of advance. The Crower version has the same cam lobes, but with 112 degrees lobe separation and is 4 degrees advanced. Crower has a good line of dedicated Pontiac camshafts. The 221/229 is most popular. The 218/226 is a computer enhanced version of their ld 221/229 cam, with more aggressive cam lobes. The 228/235 is torquer than the 041, while making the same power. The Summit 224/234 is good one and was Edelbrock's second choice to the 041. The Speed Pro 224/234 is the 112 lobe separation version of the Summit cam, Speed Pro part number, Speed Pro CS1175R. Lunati has some of the best Pontiac valve springs and 10 degree keeper retainers to match them.
Lots of info, thanks for taking the time l. My build 83 Silverado 67 400/th400 combo from a catalina
Ugh I’m restoring a 72 goat and wish I had a clue about cams . Engine work is my weak area .
comp cam xe262 or xe 268 with 16 48 or 62 heads i love the power of this set up.
interesting video, but a few things are off- 6x-4 heads are not 7 to 1 heads, 6x-8 heads are, the 6x-4 head is around 8.2:1 on a stock engine with smog pistons, and the 6x-4 heads are one of the best flowing D-port head, that is why everyone uses them on a budget build, they flow well, respond well to porting, and being an emission head, are an early fast burn design. also, no need for diff. pushrods if using a 1.65 rocker. hp is also a little off as some calculations are missing info-44yrs in the business, and over 300 pontiac engines under my belt, a 406, 8.7/9.0:1 compression, 6x.4 heads,RA 4 cam, 1.5 rockers, performer RPM intake, re-worked q-jet, headers- i get around 410/420hp, 430/450lbs torque. the summit 2901/2802 is a comp cam, was a good cam, and made good power, but you couldn't make me use 1 with a gun to my head, comp cams flat tappet cams are junk, close to 50% failure rate if not more, i use American sticks in my engines now-
Ah, working on my 1947 Dodge Power Wagon mounted on a 1997 Dodge 2500 4x4 12 valve 5 speed Dana 80 rear truck. Chassis has a 6 inch lift kit and running 47 inch tires, re-arching rear fenders to match arc of tires and making front fenders wider to cover tire width. Working out well so far.
I am running 068 cam in my Pontiac bored0.040 over stroked .25" dished pistons compression 9.5. 3.36:1 rear end. ported heads and intake. very happy and great street manners.
It's really the right cam, did you go 1.5 or 1.65 rockers?
@@LSxHunter went with the1.5 rockers. might get a little more hp with the 1.65 but didn't feel it was with the cost on this build.
running 16 heads on it.
To be honest you really might be in the sweet spot with the ported heads and the stock lift. I was just talking with another builder about low-lift and good heads.
@@LSxHunter take a listen for your self.
watch
it won't let me link , but if you go to "dean hickey GTO rebuild" there is a short clip of the engine running.
I just found this video, but i'll post anyway. My daily driver is a 72 Lemans. I'm not going to put a cam in it right now. It just turned 89,000 miles. Not a speck of rust on it and nothing broken on it. I'll wait for a repair to make any changes.
Thanks for the videos. Im running a 65 389 in my gto. Just took off the stock 4 bbl (edelbrock1406) and 067 cam and put on a tripower and Spotts 068 high lift cam. I think this is he same cam as the 2801 as soecs on paper are the same Has a really nice midrange punch. Perfect if you want a streetable cam with a relatively stock engine.
I’m about to start putting a Pontiac 400 down in a 86 Pontiac gta
That sounds awesome…would definitely like to see updates
Just picked up a 76 Grand Prix a couple months ago. It has the 185hp 400-4bbl engine, which Im hoping to boost up power, considerably! Hoping to find a good set of higher comp heads like #13s, and already have a Performer RPM intake, and a set of Hooker 4701 headers. Then I need to decide which cam. Would prefer to keep costs low, but worse come to worse, spend the money and get the performer RPM cam. Probably will eventually get some better rods, as theyre the Pontiac’s Achilles heel.
1973 Pontiac Firebird! Recently bought a motor, '68 400 2 barrel, hoping to use some 6x heads, a fuel injection intake, a cam, pair it with a 2004r and hopefully make a nice cruiser! If I don't fall through the floors on the highway.. I don't have a lot of money, so I'm trying to just throw it together for now. Hope this can help me find a cam for the build.
Back in the day we would use the 041 cam 1.65 rockers and rhoades variable duration lifters. All of this on a 455 with 6x4 heads 3.42 gears, will put a 3400 pound firebird deep in the 12s in a quarter mile.
As much as I love the 041 cam if you're willing to deal with some drivability issues its hard to not love a 2802. We've got a few "bench" cams we'll be throwing at the 350 in 2021. If I don't hit 12s in one of the cars next year I'm going to be salty.
@@LSxHunter Use the rhoads lifters with the 041 and the vacuum and drivability issues go away. Low end torque is noticably better too. Its and old Jim Hand trick.
@@bobgipson9330 I know a lot of guys swear by the Rhodes - the oil controlled duration seems like a genius idea.
Are you ponyakr?
My 1969 428 has the 067 cam with a .410” lift. I added Ram Air IV rocker arms. My lift went up to .450.” I put a 2 4-barrel manifold on equipped with Carter AFBs. It ran AMAZINGLY well! Very fun engine!
My 400 is bored 0.030. Has old TRW flat top pistons. Running a Summit 2801 cam. My engine cam with #16 heads but I have swapped out to 6X-4 heads. Heads have been ported and shaved 0.060. Using stock valve setup with Comp Cams roller tip rockers. Intake is an Edelbrock Performer dual plane with a Holly 770 CFM carb. Headers are three tube type. Manufacturer Unknow. Late model HEI with a curve kit. Turbo 400 transmission with modified valve body. Light stall converter. 3:55 gears out back. I figure it's about 9.25 compression and will make about 325 HP. I followed Pontiac guru Jim Hand on this build. Jim has actually had real world experience racing Pontiacs starting in the 1950's. In family station wagons no less ! Once I can get a base chassis dyno run or a set of runs laid down at the strip, I'll know where I'm at. I was hoping to get into the high 13s with this setup. I will probably go with a bigger manifold, 650 Holly or modified 850 CFM Qjet. Ram Air exhaust manifolds. Ford 9 inch rear end.
The RA 2 and RA 4 motors were round port exhausts and they did have longer valves and better springs than the HO 400 motors. Thats how they could accept the higher lift. The Pontiac heads do not flow well past .500 lift unless work is done- a lot of it. Factory RA 744 cams are good as are the 041 especially if it a "Blueprinted" style cam meant for NHRA stock eliminator.
I’m working on a 1968 Pontiac Catalina
I have a 461 cid Pontiac 4.155X4.25, Mahle -22 dish pistons ,6.8" rods, Speedmaster 281 heads, summit 2801 with 1.65 rockers , Static comp. is 10.2:1 Dynamic is 9.46:1. But no one considers the rockers 10 % more lift, What Should my initial timing be,? Mechanical? Vacuum? Would you plug it in ti your machine, Please
I found it very interesting reading your recomendations, realizing how close I'd come to the "ideal" set-up in my '68 F'bird, back in the day, ca.1970-75. I had a '69 4-bolt main 400; I added the 744 cam & springs, roller timing chain, ported the heads with competition valve job w/street seats, P.C. teflon seals, polylocks, RA IV valves, pushrods, guide plates, oil pump, rejetted & rodded Q'Jet, recurved distributor w/36-38°, and HD/RA (Y-type) exh. manifolds w Camaro "Off-Road" chambered true dual exhausts.
Car used a w.r. Muncie w/Hurst Comp-Plus, a 12-bolt 3.55 ltd. slip, and manual '69 frt. disc brakes w/Velvetouch metallic rear drums, Z-28 wheels w/RA I center caps, F60-15 T/A's, '69 T/A hood, T/A sway bar, Z/28 frt. spoiler, and SW guages. Car was Verdoro Green w/ black deluxe interior, and, rare for the time, factory AM/FM. This was my street racer/ daily driver. From a 750/800 rpm idle, I could slowly let out clutch in 4th, and car would motor away smoothly as if an automatic. But from 3200-6000 acceleration was a non-stop increasing rush, and my self-imposed shift point of 6200 was more because I didn't want to enter "hand grenade" territory, which I reckoned was 6500-ish, and not because the engine was done. The car was light at 3350 with only v.r. pwr. steering, and me in the seat. I feared pretty much only Hi-perf 427s & Hemis. Recalling opening up growing leads on 440-Six Pack Challengers still brings a smile to my face. I will say that my impression is, that 'though there were many street racers & "super cars" on the roads then, it seemed as if only a minority of them kept their cars carefully "dialed-in" in a super-tuned state, and THAT was often a crucial factor in many street races.
Back in the day, in the 70s, I helped my friend rebuild his 64 GTO 389 engine. Along with that, we installed an Isky 280 hyd cam and lifters with the associated springs. It was a straight drop in cam. The specs were 280 duration 108 lobe center 440 lift and both intake and exhaust.
At idle it did “talk”, but it really came to life above 1500 rpms .
Later in the 70s I did work at Isky cams and Ed Iskenderian told me the biggest problem was hot rodders tended to over cam the engine and not consider the efficiency of the head flow. He in fact said on the street was to slightly under cam the engine so it would be better street performance.
Thank you for the posting, it was good to see a Pontiac enthusiast.
A camshaft is but one part of the puzzle. Head flow / comp ratio / intake type / carb / stall / gear ratio / tire size are all factors. Very difficult or impossible to find a " one cam fits all".
So many bits and pieces that go into building an engine the right way!
Dyno proven Pontiac 400 cid 400+ HP 470 TQ cam. 400 w/ oem 72cc d-port cylinder heads ie #62/16 etc. (9.5-1 to 9.70-1 compression)
Crower 60916 hyd flat tappet ran with 1.65 rocker arms.
Specs w/1.50 rockers:
.455”/.470” @.050 221/229 adv 278/289 LSA 112.
w/1.65 rockers .500”/.516” lift.
Dyno In California recorded 405 HP @5400 rpm 470 TQ @4100 rpm.
Kauffman Racing in Ohio recorded 419 HP @5400 rpm and 470 TQ @4100 rpm.
*** Performer RPM intake Holley 750 carburetor. The engine pulls a solid 15-16 hg of vacuum at a 900 rpm idle.
78 Pontiac bonneville with a 400 with 6x8 heads...QFT 750 and an Eldenbrock intake from Butler Performance
The 066 cam wasn't used in two barrel engines. It came out in 1965 with the newer, more aggressive 75% cam lobes. It was used in automatic transmission 4 barrel engines from 1965 through 1969. The two barrel cam was the old 70% cam lobe two barrel cam, that was used even before 1965. In 1970, 4 barrel engines went to the manual transmission 4 barrel 067 cam, even with automatic transmissions, for improved emissions. The 4 barrel 326 engine used the older two barrel camshaft. The long stroke 455 isn't well suited for the close lobe centers of 066 and the 455 does better with the 067 and its wider lobe centers.
Anyone? Rebuilding my 400 has performer intake,4 barrel carb,hei, headers and just 5c-8 heads 101cc came with 066 cam.what cam will work for my setup or just get stock cam again? Stock cam 066 or will something else work better? Oh and stock converter.
The factory 068 and 041 cams, while yes they clearly run, they were designed 50+ years ago for the 400 cid. There are so many better, modern lobe designs currently available. Folks are leaving a lot of power on the table.
Which ones are good? I'm trying to figure out one with a modern ramp that will be more snappy
I have a stock 400 4 speed with ram air 3 heads edelbrock rpm performer intake with the edelbrock performer rpm cam #7157
Could you do a output of the combination??
1977 Pontiac Grand Prix with 75’ 400 block. .030 over rpm intake Ram air exhaust 2500 stall. I may look into this 2802 summit. That’s what I’m looking for I believe. Have the 46 heads
A custom ground cam will always offer more power some 30 40 more hp.
NOW how about comparing Comp Cam extreme cam line and Crane Cams 112 lca versus these cams? I remember reading a Book that stated Pontiac v8s do well with 112 lca. I'm just wondering how this would play out with a 455, which is essentially a small valued Pontiac v8, because the valves going from the 400/428 to a 455, hasn't been upsized.
Thanks dude great stuff
Thanks for stopping by! Feel free to reach out of you need anything!
I have a Pontiac 400 from 1977. Can I put an 041 ram air cam In it? And what heads … need MORE POWER
Have 74 pontiac 455 motor done 30 over 4x heads what's the best cam to put in without upgrading heads
1966 GTO Convertible. Non-parts matching, has 68 428 with Quadrajet
The description says ram air 3 068 cam. But the ra3 is the 744 cam with 224/236 duration.
The 744 was available in manuals - the 068 cam was available in automatics.
1978 trans am, the last of the 400s
Me and my dad are working on a 77 Pontiac Firebird Smokey and the bandit baby. Doesn’t have the original engine but it does have a 400 from a 74 Firebird. Sounds super nasty but want to make it sound nastier.
What website are you on?? I wanna run some tests
Have 73 lemans sport coupe 400 would like to cam and lifter without changing pushrods and rockers. Any advice appreciated..
Pontiac 400 60 over with 4speed and 16 heads
1964 pontiac Catalina
Talk more about cams that work with a 4 speed
so, i have a 65' 389 in pieces and a 68' pontiac 350 with #16 heads between a 65 GTO intake. i want to build my 389 up for a high speed cruiser & daily driver, but for the time being the 350 will do. got it for 300 bucks and cannot complain.
The 350 seems to be a super solid budget engine. Honestly feel like we’re moving into a time in which the 350 will finally start getting love.
@@LSxHunter please for the love of God, use your platform to dissuade people from inflating the prices of pontiac stuff. Some people are putting absolutely ridiculous prices on things.
Hopefully that doesn't come off harsh, lol.
Oh no I completely agree - there’s no reason for parts to be insanely priced when they’re out there 😂
@@LSxHunter yeah man, a smog 400 with 5C heads in unknown condition from a 77 Grand Am sedan is NOT worth 900 bucks. There's another TH-camr who paid that for a siezed 1975 400 and that shit made me cough up my drink upon hearing what he paid.
Ugh, I'm ranting at this point. I love your channel, the information you provide is a godsend.
I’ve got a bare block from a 1968 GTO that’s sitting in the garage - the dude offered me $900 for it. I’d be lying if I said I’m not considering the offer. The biggest issue in my mind now is Pontiac parts have almost become exotic to most people even through you can order them from almost anywhere.
Appreciate you checking out the channel - if there’s anything you’d like to see focused on just let me know!
Melling SPC5 (066) - ebay.us/wmJ4cr
Melling SPC7 (068) - ebay.us/7liVb4
Melling SPC8 (041) - ebay.us/XG3hMC
Summit 2801 - ebay.us/8IObsf
Summit 2802 - ebay.us/4cDNQ5
Building a 12.5:1 412 with #16 heads and a roller cam on E85.
I'm working on a 77 olds omega with a Pontiac 400
What are the best cams for a Pontiac 455
Where is the McKeller #11 Cam?
041/Ram Air 4 absolutely sucks in a 400 unless you build it with high compression, high stall/clutch and deep rear gears 3.90+
041/Ram Air 4 w/1.65’s is a great cam for a 10.0-1 455+
If you aren't building for high comp, high stall and running 4.10s - are you even really racing?
My motor is a 1969 WW 4 bolt main Ram Air IV 406 with a forged steel crank out of 1961 389 Super Duty soon to get H beam rods from Butler and J/E flat top pistons. Heads now are 1967 / 670s 2.111/ 1.600 with Ram Air IV valves but am really thinking about a pair of aftermarket aluminum tunnel port V round port heads. Currently have a Crane 284 hyd. cam in it, (not happy at all with it.) but I think I will go back to old faithful the pre 72, Sig Erson 500 HLH, .505 lift ,308 Der on a 108 C/L. what a beast of a cam in a 400 ! only bad part is water temp hit's the roof with it. The motor is for my 1968 Firebird 400 / 4 sp.Convert (yeah a real one) with 4:11s
Was just trying to order the Crane 289641 cam and it is apparently no longer available. I have already decided that I really want to go the roller route and have my hydraulic roller lifters already (HT2148B) that you recommended in a more recent video. Anyway, I think I've found a replacement cam (Lunati 20510712) and was wondering what your thoughts are on it. Thanks again, Patrick
I used the HO Racing HC-04 cam (?) with Rhodes lifters & ported #48 RA III heads with 1.65 roller rockers. Advertised duration was 308/320, or 244/252 @ .050". Great combo. I installed it 4° advanced. Best conventional cam for the Pontiac, IMHO.
HC-O3. .510 gross lift on that long duration. They call it a “Poor Man’s roller now..”. Wicked cam. Probably the best ever. Hard to find one now.
@@apachebill Thapnks 4 the correction; HC-03, not HC-04. It was a long time ago. I had the Norris Aerosteel SS roller rockers, with the 1.65 ratio, so perhaps the .510 lift was .551...?
68 bonneville stock
I am building a 1969 428 (bored .030 over to 433-ish) with 1968 #16 Heads. Cam recommendations? I'm looking to build a street car (my '68 F-bird) with some balls and I want a mean-sounding idle. I'm leaning 041 with Rhodes lifters. I'm also concerned about my block/head combo having too much compression. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
I thought I heard you mention the 744 but didn't run that one. I'm surprised because that was the Ram air III cam for manual transmissions in 69. Story goes they switched over to the 068 even for the manuals later in 69??? I don't know the real truth but I know for certain that I had a 744 in my 69 GTO from the factory. It was a very good cam but you would certainly need a stall converter in an automatic car.
1970 Pontiac 400 ramsir
Love your video, but it was all Greek to me. I have the Pontiac 400 engine. It was recently rebuilt and they put in COMP CAMS .218/.224 - .462/.470 @.50 W/ 1.110 LOBE SEP. CAM, COMP CAMS DUAL TIMING CHAIN, COMP CAMS SOLID HYDRAULIC LIFTERS. What can you tell me about this combination?
Thanks for watching! That cam setup should be a good all around performer. The 218/224 cams should still give a solid bump over the stock cams. Should have plenty of vacuum for power brakes too. What heads are you slapping on there?
@@LSxHunter 6x heads with new Crower valve springs and 3 angle valve job. Also I have .308 gear ratio in the differential.
1959 Chevy impala builds working on this engine for it trying a Two-way Differential rear.Racing Silent Block balance that keep it for what night are day battle off at any race track.....my web.,.?!
Nice job, way to put some insight out about cam selection. I'm currently working on my 1967 Tempest convertible. Owned it since 1984. Also have a 1967 Tempest hardtop and a 65 Barracuda.
Thanks for stopping by! The 65 Barracuda is extremely high on my want list.
what are your thought on the Voodoo 10510701
Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 256/262
Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 213/219
Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .455/.468
LSA/ICL: 112/108
thinking on putting this in my 72 400 in my 72 Catalina with the Kuafman head 85cc
I bet it’d be a hoot - I’m a big Lunati fan for SBCs - I’ll add your build to my viewer video this week
Great video. Thanks for sharing your research. I'm currently restoring my '67 LeMans that I've owned since 1974. 2 Dr. hardtop, Red with Black vinyl top and Red interior. Bucket seats, console and 3 speed (Dearborn) with factory Hurst shifter.
I can dig it! I've fallen in love with the 67 LeMans we've been playing with. Id be interested in checking out the progress!
I'd look into either Jones Cam Designs or David Vizard's program to spec a cam. These old school designs are out of date and the extra money spent to get a proper cam on proper lobes with the right LSA is worth the extra effort
70 Formula 400 Ra4 cam 10.5:1 number 13 ported heads 2600 stall and 3:55 12 bolt posi. Hooker super comp headers.
Hard combo to argue with! Bet it's a hoot! Had it to the track?
@@LSxHunter it hasn't been to the track in many years. Last time it had 3:07 gears and no posi. we are in simi restoration mode
1970 Trans Am 400 Ram Air III and I have the top end for a GTO Ram Air VI not sure if I need a different cam if I change to the Ram Air VI.
I'm a Pontiac lover who is without a project at this time. If I ever do build another hot rod I'm probably going to go with a 455 Buick just because of the cost factor. A rebuildable 455 Pontiac costs about $1000. I can find rebuildable 455 Buick engines for $400. Pontiac V8s have about a dozen different head castings to choose from and the cost just keeps going up. That makes the Buick more attractive because the only difference between the popular Stage 1 heads and any 455 Buick head is the valves and springs. The Buick heads have bigger valves, better flow, combustion chamber design and spark plug location.
If money were not a factor I would definitely go Pontiac all the way.
1967 GTO, 400 HO, 4 speed with 3:31 12 bolt rear end. Factory A/C and 670 heads.
Great video can you make a video for the 1969 pontiac 428 engine with 16 heads 2.11 intake and 1.77 exhaust what cam would you recommend
Hi was wondering if the 041 cam is a good selection for my 428 motor comes from a 69 GP now currently running torker intake 750 holley headers and 62 heads would I also need a stall also would it have a rough idle
Thanks buddy
I have #16 heads(small valve) and am looking at my options for rebuilding. Pros/Cons for converting to Roller rockers/lifters. What cam will allow me to still run pump gas with this 10:1 static ratio?? I have press in rocker studs, so I probably need to convert those to screw in. Changing my intake to Edelbrock Performer and Ram Air III style exhaust manifolds. Thanks for any advice you might lend. Thanks, Patrick
Rollers will give you a LITTLE more power up top but the bigger thing is the advantage of less stress on components. That said, if you're running an OD transmission you won't be constantly at 3,000RPM like the old days. It's really hard to say the specific cam but I'd look for something with a high duration. We're building a higher RPM 350 and not planning on changing to screw-ins.
For a 400 the small valves will probably struggle (180-200cfm), you can hand port them for a little more success, if I were going to put money into them I'd look for good 6X-4s for under $500 and have the large valves + the screw in studs. If you wanted to get them milled from there to 85cc they'd put you in a fairly happy spot.
At 10:1 static I'd run 93 octane without thinking about it.
I have a set of 6x4 heads will sell cheap
78 trans am w72
I have a 72 Lemans with a 400 engine. Not gonna lie, it's kicking my ass...
😂 welcome to Pontiac - where you better enjoy working on cars cause it happens a lot.
@@LSxHunter 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Working on my 1968 GTO. The plan is to rebuild the drive-train this winter, so have been checking out lots of videos to get an idea what I am getting into that how much I want to attempt to do myself. Great videos, keep them coming!
Thanks for stopping by! What is your plan for the car?
@@LSxHunter Mostly just a street/cruise car. Some highway getting to car shows(75 miles or less) Currently have 3.36 gears, so even with the turbo 400, she is only turning about 3200 at 65 which seems fine so far.
@@DoItMyselfGarage what did you end up with on your engine build
@@chrisharrison3245 COMP Cams High Energy Camshafts
CCA-51-413-11
Camshaft, Hydraulic Roller Tappet, Advertised Duration 264/270, Lift .487/.495, Pontiac, V8
This was a good fit with my cast iron heads due to the limited lift available.
1969 gto with 4 speed Muncie 48 heads 355 gear in need of a good cam and Pistons
#16 heads big value,440 460 cam,rpm manifold, 30 over, hookers, 3.55 posi,2800 stall
1968 LeMans
The most amazing thing about this video is his ability to speak clearly while simultaneously drinking coffee.
Pontiac 428 and a Pontiac 400
.489"/.476"Thumper Series Cams at $213.99 at jegs Flames on baby super pro Street...... Ultimate LS INDuction SYSTEM S Fitech👍🤣🤑
041 is a great cam....in a 455. It requires lots of compression and gear in a Pontiac 400. What knucklehead would run a 400 with 6X-4 heads WITHOUT milling the heads to 85-87 cc and zero decking the block? BTW... what works on a desk top sumo DOES NOT mean you will actually see these gains in REAL LIFE.
Dyno, not sumo. Damned I phone.
Its a fairly common practice to keep costs low and use cheap fuel. Would I personally set up a 6X head for myself? No. I'm a e85 and 10.5:1 guy. We see these set up with basic 6Xs constantly in later 2nd gens.
Hi, im fixing up my 400 engine in my 1967 grand prix, 10,5:1 compression and 670 heads. Thouts on cam to bring it over 400hp. It Will run on 95 octane. Sorry for the spelling, i Am Swedish
Hur gick de?
I have a 70 Firebird 350 with a stock automatic, 3:08 gears and original heads. I don’t race much but need a bit more power.
What cam would you recommend?
For the 350 the Sum-2800 or 2801 would likely do you well. They’re not crazy cams but are an improvement over most stock ones. If you wanted to keep in the original lineup look for a 067ish cam. If you’re wanting to drive it on a regular basis I’d probably shoot for the 2800.
1970 GTO with a. 455 H.O. With a ram air iv cam and a ProCharger
I have a some questions. If you were to maximize a 400 (Pontiac) for ultimate air flow, how much milling of the heads would you go? With the torker 2 port matched. I have the holley 750 carb and was thinking of going back to the original rochester carb buit to high performance specs. And I was curious to know if there's a big difference between 3:42 and 3:73 gears. Just want to make best with what I have.
It really depends on the heads - 6x8 heads you can get away with usually around .060" of milling which should get you do to roughly 85cc in the chamber. Another major part is the raw air flow of the cylinders. Most 6X heads end up around 211cfm @ .500 lift but with the right port job you can get 230+cfm. As far as the gearing goes it really depends on your goals, transmission, weight, and tire size. Personally I like the 3.42 gears for most applications.
Pontiac V8's respond to same cam grinds as a SBC 400... Summit K2801 214/224 cam/lifters is like a modernized Pontiac TriPower cam... K2802 224/234 is like a Chevy 350 HP 350" cam... (can do up to 435 HP in a properly built Pontiac engine with better heads)... Jegs has same grinds as Summit for about $10 less... they no longer carry the 234/244 grind for Pontiacs which is similar to 'Ram Air V' 500 HP cam/Edelbrock Performer RPM cam, but they may still be available at a low price on eBay, Amazon, Sears, etc... Ram Air V was only over the Pontiac Parts counter DIY parts or crate engine using heads with round tunnel intake ports... some dealers may also have offered to install it (but no warranty)...
The RPM cam is an 041 RA IV copy, the 2802 is a 744 RA III copy. The RA V had a different valve layout like a nail head or FE Ford as in EI EI IE IE rather than the usual D and round port EI IE EI IE layout. That means the V cam will not work without the V heads. The thing Pontiac engines REALLY like is a tight LSA, 108 to 110 rather than the 114 and wider of the stock cams. Its all about where they make their power.
The runner length, port cross section, valve inclination angle, valve size, and the port shape is different enough from the chevy 400 to the Pontiac 400, that what works in one won't work the same in the other. Sure those cams will improve things in either engine, but its all about *where* they make their torque and how much of it that matters.
The Pontiac will make more torque between idle and 4500rpm, due to port length and size which increases velocity. The chevy needs more RPM to start making power, the heads flow more CFM but they are lazy at low lift/RPM and the ports are short which moves the RPM range where torque is best produced.
Thats why the chevy needs more gear than a Pontiac, and why most Pontiacs go slower when someone thinks they are the same as or close enough to a chevy and builds them like one.
Its even worse with a 455 running iron heads, because the airflow above 5800rpm simply isn't there, but the torque it makes between idle and 5000 dwarfs that of chevys of any factory size. The chevy will need a 3.73 and up whereas the Pontiac 455 will run essentially the same with a 2.73 to 3.55 gear, and lose at least 1mph with a 3.73 and gain no ET, then slow down more and more as more gear is put behind them. The 400 can use a 3.08-3.73 but more than that starts doing the same thing, killing mph and ET... unless of course, you increase the airflow above 270cfm, crank up the compression and throw more duration at it.
The 670 headed 455 in my 3750lb 79 Formula slowed from 11.40s@120 to 12.1@114 by going from a 3.42 gear to a 4.10 both turning a 28" tall tire, with the same UD 288/296 cam, and 2200 stall. It was all done before 1000ft and turning 6000rpm for the last 330ft with the 4.10. With the 3.42 it pulled harder, ran faster in the 1/8 by .4 and even 60ft better than the 4.10. I put the 4.10 in to slow it down, because back then 11.99 was the cut off point requiring a roll bar, and I didn't have the funds to put one in.
Been building and racing Pontiac engines, and beating lots of chevys, since 1986. There are five 455s in cars right now, three 461s, a 467 Butler did for me while I was deployed(its kinda sick with 650ftlbs at 3000 and 700+ftlbs at 4500 on pump gas), and five more 400s in my yard. Four of the 400s that are ready to go are waiting for me to get the car done. I've built chevys too, and they respond to similar things but are different in what they do. Its all about port length and velocity.
hey im building a 79 lemans wanted to know what year 400 will give me the most power
It depends on how much octane booster you can afford. Compression ratios on 400s can vary from 7.6:1 to over 10.5:1 Avoid the 1967 400s with closed chamber heads.
Hi! Currently building a '65 389 for my '65 gto. I've got a fresh short block bored .060 over and 10:1 c.r. with factory stroke. I plan on running the stock cast iron "76" heads with tripower. I am still unsure on a cam though. Ive heard good things about the 068 and the 744 cam. Thoughts?
For that combo I'd go with the milder 068 - the '65 era heads aren't known for moving a ton of air so you might as well take advantage of the velocity and torque. The longer duration of the 744 might hurt you out of the hole with the 389 until 2400-2600 rpm. The only other consideration I'd make is changing out the heads to the later style. If you're going with a "stock" rebuild porting those heads would pay BIG dividends.
Those old 389 heads have 350 2 barrel valves. Anything over .400 lift would be a waste.
1967 Catalina. 400, 2 barrel.
building a junk yard find lemans into a gto clone. AKA my own murder goat. at least thats the plan. thanks for videos like this, had no idea what cam i should be looking for before this.
Glad we could help! Look forward to seeing it! I've got a soft spot for custom A-Bodies ;).
I just picked up a 73 Pontiac Catalina with 400. What would you do first to increase power?
Intake, Holley carb, headers
Pontiac made great factory exhaust manifolds, similar aftermarket ones are good .. RARE have the biggest outlet 2.5". Dual exhaust, the 068 cam or the mild summit cam he recommended. If it's a 4 bbl, leave it alone, if not, get the factory 4 bbl or edelbrock performer and a q-jet.
what you think is the best cam for a 350 and 455?
Working on a bunch of the 350 stuff with some known manufacturers - I’ll have a 455 breakdown sometime this week coming in short form.
I would like to see what the software says if you use 370cfm ramair v heads
And so it shall be! Keep an eye out ;)
working on a 1979 trans am with a 1973 400 engine in it and and turbo 400 trans. we need to put a cam in it as one of the lobes it dead and we are getting no compression on on the cyl due to that. we want to put a high compression flat tappet cam that has better duration and lift than the factory cam we are not going to take it to the track or put a blower on it. thinking about investing in some high flow heads but that would be allot of extra cash. if we did that i would want to go roller cam to get the most out of it, but honestly me and my dad are just looking for maybe 450 foot pounds around 3 grand.
Before you go roller check out the video we'll be posting later on this week. We have a solution to make a roller-lifter Pontiac a little more cost effective and more reliable.
Personally I'd spend some time porting the heads you have to make some power on the cheap.
@@LSxHunter we have the wimpy 7J2 heads and i guess it would be better to just replace them with a better option. To be honest having it running sounds best at this moment. I have been told that the 6X heads are better but we are debating getting aluminum heads that come with valves and springs and porting is offered as well. Worked on it tonight and got hung up removing the heads. there are two bolt heads that are really hard to head at because the pipe bends back over the bolt head making it super tough to get at.
What would be a good cam and good set of heads for a street car with a 455 4 speed with performer intake?
For a street 455 the cams will act at a lower RPM. If i was going to drive the car on a regular basis I'd opt for the 2801, its basically a 068 cam with a TAD more lift. The 041 might give you a little extra power but you might have to contend with head issues.
455 with mildly ported 6X 4s and a Crower 606919 cam. It's basically a RA IV that better on the street. I ran 12.40s with that set up in my Ventura and a 3.23 gear. Make sure you port match the performer intake to the gasket. They tend to be a little off on the intake port.
@@LSxHunter I run a Crane Commander III (close to the Summit 2802) in a 400 Pontiac and its really not bad at all. It's suppose to be killer in a 455!!!!
I used the car as a daily driver The cool thing is it does 0-60 ft in 1.60s and 0-60 mph in 3.4 seconds with non ported #16 heads on pump gas. It also has stock rods. Napa Autoparts built the short block in 1991 for $999 . It never gets over 175 degrees and does the 1/4 in 12.5 seconds and thats a 3810 lb race weight. Remember non ported #16 heads on pump gas. So then I added a 150 shot of Nitrous and have done 11.75 running pig rich on the wide band!!! Below 10. Not bad for a basically cheap stock rebuild with non ported heads and a heavy car. Fastest MPH in the 1/4 was 107.7 without nitrous and 119 with. I also shift this car on a regular basis at 6500 and have been doing it for 30 years!!! Its rediculous to limit yourself with low compression heads when you have way better choices for "PERFORMANCE CAMS" if you stick with the factory 10-1 Compression.
Sounds like a great setup! That's no light car to be moving! I could see it being good in a 455 or 461 stroker - the 461 is typically where we see guys also make the jump to aluminum heads though!
Working on a 73 Pontiac Ventura, chassis off the frame restoration (power coated and reinforced) it’ll have a Pontiac 400 11:1 mild cam, turbo 350 trans, Dana 60 rear end with 325 Possi 🤘🏻
The Ventura is such an underrated car! That’s the next one on my list 😂. What color scheme are you going with?
@@LSxHunter right now it’s orange with a black Vinyl top, I’ll be keeping the vinyl but changing it to burgundy!
@@LSxHunter also wanting a (modest) cowl hood, when I was younger I thought they looked ugly on the Ventura (Raised V) but now I’m liking it! I got the car in Scottsdale Az (rust free 😉) I got it as a starter car because I am young and it’s a post car (unlike the true Nova)
What about the 744 cam ?
Hello,
I have a 1979 Pontiac Trans Am with the W72/400. It is a 4 speed with a 323 gear. It has Ram Air 2.5 manifolds, full 2.5 exhaust with X-Pipe, performance Quadrajet rebuild, and recurved distributor.
I do not wish to raise compression, so heads are stock originals.
Can you give me some flat tappet cam recommendations? Plz explain pros and cons for each.
Thanks in advance!
Off the top of my head I would heavily suggest a MEL-SPC7. This is a Melling 068 replacement cam. This will give you OEM driveability and reliability at the expense of high end power.
Another good option would be a Melling SPC3. This is basically a 744 Camshaft. Kinda like the 068 but with more duration. You might need a hair more stall than factory to compensate for the losses under 2k.
Reminder, my car is a 4 speed with a 323 gear. You peeked my interest with the 2801 and the 2802. Also had someone recommend and com 268h. Can you elaborate on these 3?
Thanks
Even being a 4 speed I would likely still reach for a lower-lift cam in a fairly stock configuration. The 2801 is the safe bet out of the two - it should be within 5hp through most of the curve right along side the 2801. The 2802 should out perform the 268h after 2500rpm due to the lobe separation angle difference and the longer duration on the 2802. The 2802 isn't recommended for low-compression engines but plenty of people do it.
Your gearing might make up for the short comings of the 2802 down low. Personally, I'd check the valve spring travel and run the 2802. For other people I recommend the 2801 as it is a "safer" cam due to the smaller lift. You can always put 1.65 rockers on to up the lift later as well.
Thanks LSXHunter👍
@@joseinterian4213 Go with the 2802!!! You wont be sorry!!!
68 Pontiac 350 and a 67 400
Working on 535 all Pontiac block.. 4.5 stroke. 4.35 piston. Looking to see what's the best cam to run at the moment
I have a 535 also with SD Performance top end Edelbrock heads that are cnc ported, let me know if you want his recommendations to a computer designed cam
@@GtoJohn yeah 👍 I'm down
Hey mike,
My heads flow almost 350cfm and I had a big Solid roller which I just took out as I want to street drive my Judge now and not just run at the track.
Dave spaced out this cam for my combo to have maximum power for street driving. The cam is hydraulic roller and I’m installing short travel Johnson lifters. He designed it with 5 degrees advanced, hope this helps you
Trying to send you cam card
Can you send me yr email or contact?
I have a 77 Trans Am. It has the 500577 block. I would like 425 -450 horsepower. Would this block be able to handle this? What cam would you recommend? Currently, I have a Stage 3 Lift cam. It's a special cam from Competition Cams. I purchased it through Sandoval Performance. I remember it's similar to a Ram Air4. I do have the stock heads. It has 1:52 Scorpion Rocker Arms. Coan Torque Converter. An Edelbrock Torker 2 manifold. A Holley 750. It has 3:42 gears. Eventually, I want to get a hood scoop kit. And get new exhaust. I plan on getting Ram Air Exhaust manifolds. What I'm looking for is a upper 12 - low 13 second Street car. I was thinking of having the manifold and heads to be port matched. How about a 3 angle valve job? What do you think?
I would personally - yes. Many people will tell you the webbing is too thin to push the 577 blocks but people tend to have issues around 550-600. I don't see why you couldn't smack 12s with 400hp in a properly set car. 3-angle valve jobs are always a good thing. Any idea what the cam specs are? I'd assume it'd be set up perfectly for a 5200-5500rpm peak with a good high duration, high lift cam and a torker 2. I'd think you're right where you want to be.
The only thing that might hold you back is the Ram Air exhaust manifolds. They've been known to outflow headers AND be more restrictive than the log manifolds due to the primitive sand-casting process. Pretty easy to know though, if they look clean inside with no major flashing you're gold.
@@LSxHunter I believe the cam specs are similar to a Ram Air IV.
@@LSxHunter I'm not sure what your trying to say about the ram air exhaust manifolds. You don't think it's a good idea?
@@scottteeselink6251 yes and no. Due to the old style of sand casting they are extremely varied in their flow characteristics. If you look into the manifolds you'll either a nice smooth pathway OR a flashing mess. The more used a sandcasting is the more it breaks down at the parting lines causing flashing.
As far as the cam goes, there are two modern grinds for the 068 cam. One with .410 lift, which is equal to 1.5 ratio or the .470 which is about equal to using 1.65 ratio rockers, but still using 1.5 rockers, it just has more lift at the cam instead of the rockers.
@@LSxHunter okay. Thanks for responding. I appreciate it!
86 trans am