Sorry for anyone hankering for a Project Siesta update… but I am waiting on some bits from eBay… been ages Grrrrr!!!! So enjoy this little diversion in the meantime!
I welded shafts together for my build too. Everyone said they will fail, but worth a shot compared to custom units. I keyed mine together though, might be something to try on your next ones. Cut off half of each so the lock together. Also, I ran a hole saw on my sleeve on each end so the weld didn’t go around in one circle. Was hoping that would prevent a shear at the sleeve weld. Check it out sometime, might give you some ideas.
@@MakingforMotorsport glad to help! Mine is being built for 400hp, not sure they will hold up but if those are the first thing to break I’ll happily pay for custom shafts
to be honest, the keyed part is pretty pointless, they always break at the weak points, which in your case will be the root of the key. It would be no stronger. The sleeve bit is a common practice, all be it not with a hole saw, but usually V shape cut out. I like the hole saw though, less sharp edges to root a crack.
As someone with a PhD in Materials, I particularly enjoyed your NDE testing of the shaft and your use of the words, 'heat affected zone' and 'stress raiser'. You got me subscribed on that basis alone! Oh, and I love classic minis too. Great video. 👍
@@ThunderAppeal As someone with your intellect will not doubt know, it is impossible to prove something completely, only to disprove. For instance I cannot prove that you have no friends and live an empty life trolling people on TH-cam, but I can suppose it's a likely hypothesis based on recent evidence. Extra-awesome with bells on.
I put uprated driveshafts with beefier Cv joints on my 106. they worked flawlessly, and never broke, unlike the factory ones. Instead of changing driveshafts in 20 minutes, I moved to a routine of having to repair gearboxes that grenaded, as that was where the mechanical fuse was moved to with my "upgrade".
@@MakingforMotorsport When I started out, I was a 17 year old who was more concerned with how loud I could get my exhaust (for shame). In the process of destroying yet another gearbox, I found it pretty hard to get hold of the box from the 1.4 8v engined cars that I needed, and had to make do with one from a 1.1 8v. It was the best thing I ever did. I forget the exact ratios, but 2nd gear in the 1.1 box was like 1st in the 1.4 box. I could beat a McClaren F1 to 20MPH with that setup! I bought that little French shitbox brand-new and never sold it on. It has been sat at the bottom of my parents garden for about 15 years. I so desperately want to drag it out of the weeds.
Welded a number of broken driveshafts. For me the trick seems to be simple - no transverse welds on the sleeve. Make the sleeve a bit longer, and cut 3 wide grooves lengthwise
This is a great shout and makes perfect sense, the one I showed is the first one ever that has gone on the weld so I have never had to improve the process but I will definitely integrate this next time!
So you mean you basically cut the sleeve into 3 pieces and weld lines parallel to the shaft direction to fill in each of the 3 gaps? Basically 3 long welds?
Rather than grinding a cone for the welding joint, you should grind the ends as a chisel. Then you would be able to get full penetration of the weld and it is also easier to weld.
Great content and production as always. I’ve used the same process to make propshafts for land rovers. Cutting the tube near the yoke, splitting the offcut and using it as a sleeve to hold everything true, then welding the sleeve at each end and filling the split. Then grind everything back as smooth as possible. No failures or balance problems. By keeping the joint near an end rather the middle run out is less. Interestingly I did one by grinding out the weld of the yoke, shortening the tube and welding the yoke back in. This looked better, but was terribly out of balance causing bad vibrations around 60mph. Made another with the sleeve method and all good lol. I got this sleeve method from a book called “ How to build a T Bucket Hot Rod on a budget”. The authors philosophy was do it yourself and get the project finnished, then anything you don’t like or didn’t work change later, but at least you have a finnished rolling car.
I’ve did this too many years ago on a fiesta, think I stick welded them together because it was all I had, I did use a DTI during the process to ensure they where straight! Gave them them hell never failed or vibrated.
Great video, I’ve got 4 to make up, doing a 3.2 vr6 swap in my t5 van, could of avoided if using t5 existing manually transmission but using the dsg and Quattro, this splicing will do until I get some custom ones done 😊
Good video on this subject! I built a Mk1 Mini with a CG13DE engine swap around three years ago and I made the driveshafts in a very similar fashion to the way you describe. The only differences were that I turned the end of the shaft halves in a lathe, which enabled me to turn one half to a point and drill a socket in the other, which ensured co-linearity. I also welded a one piece sleeve over the top and drilled and pinned both just for giggles. Admittedly the car doesn't get the hard forward and reverse load cycles yours do, but they're still together!
Interesting to see a video showing a different way of joining shafts. I've built a set recently but machined collars that were a very close fit to keep the shafts concentric.
Nice video, i work on my shorten drive shaft too, but i put a Pin bar in both of center diameter of shaft to make it stronger shocked them then welding it together.
I work at a place that pumps out 1/4 million OEM driveshafts a month, and your process is just a home shop version of ours. We have a friction welder for shafts, then heat treatment, then a straightening machine that is literally an automated version of the measuring and bending process you show. We even crack check with a similar method too. The most common failure location is the tiny gutter where the spline teeth end, as it's usually the smallest diameter and in a highly stressed area. Nice job.
Excellent video. I’ve done many engine conversions that I have made shafts in exactly the same way, although I leave it 5”-7” long and drill some holes in and then fill with weld. Just for added strength. The video at 14.06 reminds me of my drive to work when trying to squeeze a 15min drive into 5mins 😂😂 Keep up the good work 👍
This is the first of your videos I've seen and I'm actually impressed! Stuff I should have considered myself when fabricating my shafts for my 6 speed swapped MK2 golf 8 years ago now. Those shafts came out this week. Better than £800 for shafts! And allowed for extra camber and track width for track time! 😎
@@MakingforMotorsport It's crazy right!? And it is. A White Big bumper, but it's 5 door. All I wanted was a clean shell all that time ago! Learnt everything I know from that car going back almost 10 years now! Almost scared to work on it seeing the values of them currently. 😬 I'm hot for a classic mini though. I see it sitting in this video. And I swear I can hear the thromps from those throttle bodies! 😅
My 4x4 front prop is solid (as opposed to a tube like normal) - it needed shortening. So we cut it, created a sleeve that went over the join. Cross drilled it and doweled and finally tigged either end of the sleeve to the shaft. This ensures it’s perfectly true. Engine is. 5.7 twin turbo driving 35” mud tyre’s - worked for the last 15+ years
A Belt Sander attachment for the grinder can make it easier to get all the paint/coatings off the driveshaft as the belt would be sanding around the circumference instead of using a grinder wheel making flats around the circumference of the shaft
Post 2 years comment. If you press fit both half shafts into the sleeve and have a few holes in the sleeve to plug weld you can ensure a very accurate shaft balance
I cut and shortened two driveshaft's when we put a Metro turbo engine into a Mini as we wanted to keep the wheel spacing the same width as a mini, that was in the 90's and 1000's of miles later they are still holding, everyone at the time said it wouldn't last five minutes, I turned out sleeves on the lathe and welded it all with a nickel chrome stick welding rod
My cg13de mini on the machinist's suggestion we machined down the larger diameter shaft and cut the mini CV splines on this, no welds or heat effected zones and really pretty cheap. No problems so far (about 5 years). There's a question about losing the hardening on the splines though... I've not seen anyone else do it this way but I'm not sure why not as it's worked fine for me.
Make the join closer to the other end, more mini shaft allows more twist, so less impulse (shock) to the join, . On run-out, checking with wide V blocks is good then moving your V blocks closer to the misalignment will let the press straighten the problem and get the centrelines of the spline shafts more inline. Wide V blocks bows the whole shaft.
Thanks for an interesting video. Your method obviously works. The one shaft that broke at the sleeve might have been avoided if you could blend and polish in a large radius with a flap wheel. The location where one blob of filler metal touches the next is a "sharp" internal radius. The stress concentration goes up as one over the dimension of the radius. You can see the factory made a large internal radius where the shaft had to change diameter.
Yeah, in retrospect it’s a obvious stress concentration point, some guys are suggesting a “wavy” cut on the end of the shaft with a hole saw which I will definitely be doing next time! 👍
Cheers bud! I had been thinking about this channel for years, wish I’d started then…. All I can say is start now!! (And I hope you like editing!! 😂😂😩😩)
Great video and great timing, I was thinking of converting solid diff Autoslalom Locost to IRS, with subaru impreza pieces. I'm was looking for inspiration on how to shorten the driveshaft... Keep the the DIY videos coming, Motorsport is fun on the track and in the garage, even better when it doesn't break the bank
I think the sleeve method is the way to go, but picking up on the comments, cutting the end of the sleeve with a hole saw so it “wavy” and on a radial ring should reduce the stress raisers and make it even stronger!
There was an interesting thread on Retrorides (I think it was a Hillman Imp) with a guy who made his own shafts, one broke so he re-made them extremely well
All the way through this you'd be thinking " One day I'll be able to 3 D print this " I've done this a few times for various application, rally included. The only difference is that I cut about a 30mm step (key ) For rally I do a longer sleeve and plug weld it, and get them balanced. Usually do 3 gravel meetings, or 4 /5 tarmac meeting before checking, or replacing them. That spray check stuff is good for checking roll cage welds.
I turned the shafts so that one fitted inside the other to ensure alignment. Then I made a sleeve which was fishmouthed at each end so that your not welding directly around in one spot. Seems to be working ok so far.
Maybe creating center holes and a corresponding center pin on a lathe may diminish warping by the welding and save time straightening the combined shafts. Also making the shaft ends to be welded properly round and same diameter on the lathe would help more accurate straightening. I do suspect that the cause of the broken shafts at / around the splines lies in the misalignment as the negative impact concentrates there.
Just a machinist's input, but next time you press your shaft to straighten it (or something similar) mount the DTI UNDER the job. Then use a low point instead, set as 0, rotate to get a reading of how far out it is across 180 degrees, then you can press and measure your alteration at the same time as the press will be pushing towards the DTI.
Seen a few people test this I know the boosted boiz don't it with a AWD 900+ whp car those lasted and garage54 have done it will cam shaft cranks shaft and driveshafts and not had a problem either.
I chickened out and bought a propshaft for my rear wheel drive project, but just thinking about your method for a potential future project. So, if it wasn't for you heat affected area, your joint would be stronger than the original shafts I suspect. Bigger second moment of area and all that jibberish. So would it be better (or worse) to weld the outer tube with a series of cold short tacks? This would somewhat prevent the heat affected area +at least at the sleeve ends), but you would have weaker welds with less penetration (on the sleeve). But since you've got the internal weld with the outer sleeve for good measure could it not still end up being stronger than the original shaft, even if the outer sleeve has very little penetration? A good video for someone to make would be to torque test different welding methods on shafts to destruction.
I think you’re right and if I can address the metallurgy problems in the HAZ then it would stronger I think, but I wouldn’t go for anything less than full puddle weld with good penetration. The joy with prop shafts is that you can often cut off the UJ yokes and either cut down the tube or put a longer one in…. It they do have to be balanced due to the bigger diameters involved 👍
@@MakingforMotorsport ye, my main concern with the propshaft was not really knowing what would happen if it failed. It would be about 6" away from my arrse with GRP and a tiny bit of steel box section to block it. I'm pretty sure I could have welded it properly. But what if???? Hope the guys that made it for me know what they are doing 🤣
You do it the same way my brother does on his 4wd 400+ hp abused heap of s#:£ and never broke one yet. Normally ends up being the drive shaft that’s still holding that corner together
What about friction welding? In theory it could work and be much more durable? I imagine that it would be rather difficult to keep the centerline straight.
Friction welding would be ideal for dissimilar and “unweldable” materials but the kit required is quite something… I’ll keep my little TIG welder I think 🙈
I think that's the kind of modification is is perfectly acceptable for auto test but if it were for circuit use a properly done shaft would be the way to go. It's shafts were one of the reasons I decided against putting a k24 into my 405 and instead have decide to go with a 2.3ltr stroker gti6 engine
It’s kind of one of those things… if I were doing something that had £400 entry fees I would fear a non-finish a lot more…. But I reckon this is plenty strong enough for circuit racing… And I wanna know more about a 2.3 GTi6 engine! That’s gotta be a beast! Custom crank?
@@MakingforMotorsport that would be my trail of thought on it. Likely strong enough for circuit racing but I wouldn't want to chance the failure. The 2.3 is a reasonably budget friendly build the way I am doing it (for the bottom end anyway) 96mm 2.2 hdi crankshaft 158mm pec turbo conrods for a gti6 Honda k20 87mm pistons 280degree cams Adjustable cam pulleys Ported head Arp head and crank studs Hdi oil squirters Big capacity baffled sump Planning a custom intake manifold rather than throttle bodies purely so I can mirror polish it along with anything else aluminium
I don’t tend to spin these fast as I am only in 1st gear (although that means lots of torque!) but at normal road speeds (under 100mph) I am not seeing this as a problem. Prop shafts need balancing in RWD applications but they spin 3times faster as they are before the final drive gear, are much longer. That said, I’d make even more effort to get them as straight as possible if I was doing 100mph+ but it’d be good I think
I welded a broken shaft back together but didnt have a sleeve available . chamfered the edges and tig welded it . will it be ok ? or do you always need a sleeve ?
I've always imagined if I ever needed to shorten a longitudinal driveshaft I'd cut it at one end near a U-joint rather than in the middle. The idea being if the angle wasn't perfectly straight it wouldn't matter as much. I suppose you can't really do that with axles since that would put the joint under the boot? Or is there some additional reason that makes it better to join shafts in the middle portion instead on one end?
Yeah that is the best way to do them for the DIY guy. It's how I do mine. Lengthening them I would get a longer tube the right size instead but that's for 'Driveshafts' only. 'Stub Axles' like what this guy is doing have heat treats and are usually machined. You have to very careful and at least a good understanding welder to shorten or lengthen stub axles or CV shafts (basically same) reliably. Stub axles I'd rather buy first if it's possible but if not I'd take them apart to what process is need to change length. I would make that change more near the ends if possible and set up a jig and prep for rollout before laying on weld, not afterwards if you want any real hope of something that is straight.
I went with the place I did due to the similar diameters… and as long as the shaft is “straight”, I don’t think it matters. The reason for re-welding at the UJ yoke on a prop shaft is that there is already a weld there, and they sometimes pick up axial alignment with a bore… if you already have a weld, why make another? I am not so lucky…
So the heat treats on these are there for the splines and it’s only a “case harden” rather than a full through heat treat as that would be far too brittle. Like I say in the video, co-axial at the joint is most important, you could jig that to a girder and it would move all over the place with that much weld and heat in it. Even OEM driveshafts still need straightening post friction weld….
@@MakingforMotorsport Seen that process too, I use to manufacture them and I have seen driveshafts made aftermarket and the long ones they do straighten afterwards. I straighten them and check runout before hand while I'm welding them up and my result is usually within 1-2 thou runout. It comes out better but then that's what the jig was for. You probably won't see full induction hardening on cheapy old axles especially on old cars so welding, but ye you got keep that in mind.
Minis are always popular and generally a good choice, cut the roof off and they are even faster… Lotus 7 style cars are also super quick! I have an event report video which you may find interesting….
Looking at it in person, you can see the scale-like formation from a fatigue crack growth… potentially from a surface crack…. In the future every 4-5 events I will pull the shafts and DyePen them… that’s should catch any failures like this…
@@MakingforMotorsport this has already made up my mind. I'm going to carefully measure and then make my own axle shaft. And then when I'm sure that works I'll go back and order custom shafts. But this way I know the shaft will be the perfect fit.
Ofcourse we could find a quality workshop with a friction welder, and do 2 axles in 10 mins including setup time, find a suitable place and offer unlimited advertising via TH-cam for their bussiness and they may do it for a very reasonable price?
Small tiny car will little power, lot's people do it like this. Heavy cars with any appreciable power these almost always fail. For what you use them for would be perfectly acceptable.
I am not so sure.. plenty of comments on here doing it with 300hp plus who have done it like this…. Remember, it’s not power but torque that kills shafts… I look forward to trying it with a bigger motor!
@@MakingforMotorsport Yeah I usually hear about them breaking with motors making more than 400hp with similar torque. I feel bad for the people with Datsuns that boost them. Even some BMW guys, just not as common around here with beamers.
I have always wondered about this! thanks for making the video so detailed! I wonder if tempering the whole shaft after welding would make the cracks less likely to appear on the heat affected zone?
Temper would not likely do it as that’s normally “low” temperature and that’s pretty much what the welding does anyway as the middle 4” is about 450c, but a full heat and anneal might help but I don’t wanna lose any hardness on the spline area… That shaft lasted 2 years of the worse abuse I could give it… it did well!
Please take this as constructive criticism, but wouldn't the "right way" be to use a lathe for a lot of this? After cutting them, you could use the lathe to clean them up so your runout test wouldn't have any rough spots, your mating surfaces for welding would have been a much better match. Plus, if the welder was co-located with the lathe (as opposed to the lathe being in someone's machine shop), you could actually put them in the lathe for welding eliminating the need for the angle bracket. DIY, yes. Right way? Not sure.
It’s a good point on cleaning up the surfaces to be absolutely sure on run out, but you never weld in a lathe, spatter on the ways, current running through the bearings… bad joo joo…. When I said “right way” I mean more the idea of measuring and correcting run out and then checking the weld… It doesn’t really matter, the “right” way is to make new and then harden the ends… anything else is just shades of bad. (P.s. working title for this was “bodging driveshafts”! 😂)
Why not Make a whole new shaft from bulk its a lot easier. Or get over lenght Opel shaft and do only The other end?? Std Will do on auch small car. Wtf
@@MakingforMotorsport usually i do. And mostly i get over lenght stuff and grind ends only. Nice try still hope IT Works. 3000nm on 355 BASIC steel should be no lesser prob than ua on russia. So this A lot More stiffer GT from Finland
Without the proper tools (milling machine with a dividing head Chuck on a-axis or a shaper/broach or rolling machine) I don’t see how you are doing it with any accuracy at all… and then it (may) need case hardening… well beyond the home enthusiast….
Sorry for anyone hankering for a Project Siesta update… but I am waiting on some bits from eBay… been ages Grrrrr!!!! So enjoy this little diversion in the meantime!
Fleabay, best place to start making your car faster.
I welded shafts together for my build too. Everyone said they will fail, but worth a shot compared to custom units.
I keyed mine together though, might be something to try on your next ones. Cut off half of each so the lock together. Also, I ran a hole saw on my sleeve on each end so the weld didn’t go around in one circle. Was hoping that would prevent a shear at the sleeve weld. Check it out sometime, might give you some ideas.
The throated sleeve ends with a hole saw IS pure genius… that will help a lot with HAZ!
@@MakingforMotorsport glad to help! Mine is being built for 400hp, not sure they will hold up but if those are the first thing to break I’ll happily pay for custom shafts
to be honest, the keyed part is pretty pointless, they always break at the weak points, which in your case will be the root of the key. It would be no stronger.
The sleeve bit is a common practice, all be it not with a hole saw, but usually V shape cut out. I like the hole saw though, less sharp edges to root a crack.
I'd like to see a picture of this. I did rosette welds on my sleeves but honestly they're crooked as can be.
@@fooquestionmark I did a video on my channel about my shafts. Managed to get less than 1000th runout.
As someone with a PhD in Materials, I particularly enjoyed your NDE testing of the shaft and your use of the words, 'heat affected zone' and 'stress raiser'. You got me subscribed on that basis alone! Oh, and I love classic minis too. Great video. 👍
Thank you for proving that many PhD's are idiots.
Awesome.
@@ThunderAppeal As someone with your intellect will not doubt know, it is impossible to prove something completely, only to disprove. For instance I cannot prove that you have no friends and live an empty life trolling people on TH-cam, but I can suppose it's a likely hypothesis based on recent evidence.
Extra-awesome with bells on.
@@thequantumduckling
I put uprated driveshafts with beefier Cv joints on my 106. they worked flawlessly, and never broke, unlike the factory ones.
Instead of changing driveshafts in 20 minutes, I moved to a routine of having to repair gearboxes that grenaded, as that was where the mechanical fuse was moved to with my "upgrade".
I feel your pain buddy! Time to give the lovely fellas at Quaife a ring!
@@MakingforMotorsport
When I started out, I was a 17 year old who was more concerned with how loud I could get my exhaust (for shame). In the process of destroying yet another gearbox, I found it pretty hard to get hold of the box from the 1.4 8v engined cars that I needed, and had to make do with one from a 1.1 8v. It was the best thing I ever did. I forget the exact ratios, but 2nd gear in the 1.1 box was like 1st in the 1.4 box. I could beat a McClaren F1 to 20MPH with that setup!
I bought that little French shitbox brand-new and never sold it on. It has been sat at the bottom of my parents garden for about 15 years.
I so desperately want to drag it out of the weeds.
Quality video! So many people screech when you mention welded shafts, but the proof is right there. Mini looks rapid too! Nice work.
There is the right way, and the wrong way… I like to think that this is the right wrong way!
Welded a number of broken driveshafts. For me the trick seems to be simple - no transverse welds on the sleeve. Make the sleeve a bit longer, and cut 3 wide grooves lengthwise
This is a great shout and makes perfect sense, the one I showed is the first one ever that has gone on the weld so I have never had to improve the process but I will definitely integrate this next time!
Could you elaborate of the specifics?
So you mean you basically cut the sleeve into 3 pieces and weld lines parallel to the shaft direction to fill in each of the 3 gaps? Basically 3 long welds?
Rather than grinding a cone for the welding joint, you should grind the ends as a chisel. Then you would be able to get full penetration of the weld and it is also easier to weld.
Good shout, it would also then just likely move in 1 plane when welding… might try that next time!
Great content and production as always.
I’ve used the same process to make propshafts for land rovers.
Cutting the tube near the yoke, splitting the offcut and using it as a sleeve to hold everything true, then welding the sleeve at each end and filling the split. Then grind everything back as smooth as possible. No failures or balance problems. By keeping the joint near an end rather the middle run out is less.
Interestingly I did one by grinding out the weld of the yoke, shortening the tube and welding the yoke back in. This looked better, but was terribly out of balance causing bad vibrations around 60mph. Made another with the sleeve method and all good lol.
I got this sleeve method from a book called “ How to build a T Bucket Hot Rod on a budget”. The authors philosophy was do it yourself and get the project finnished, then anything you don’t like or didn’t work change later, but at least you have a finnished rolling car.
Interesting… I thought the grinding out the yoke weld, shorten and reweld method was the way…. Guess not!
this channel is my discovery of 2021 and potentially my 2022 favourite 👍🏻
Cheers bud… I’m gonna keep these vids coming!
👏🏾The video I needed,thanks for this I’m gonna try fabricating my driveshafts for my Vr6 swap.
I’ve did this too many years ago on a fiesta, think I stick welded them together because it was all I had, I did use a DTI during the process to ensure they where straight! Gave them them hell never failed or vibrated.
Another great one. Always awesome to see the Mini at Autotesting
Cheers gafrers!
Great video, I’ve got 4 to make up, doing a 3.2 vr6 swap in my t5 van, could of avoided if using t5 existing manually transmission but using the dsg and Quattro, this splicing will do until I get some custom ones done 😊
Good video on this subject! I built a Mk1 Mini with a CG13DE engine swap around three years ago and I made the driveshafts in a very similar fashion to the way you describe. The only differences were that I turned the end of the shaft halves in a lathe, which enabled me to turn one half to a point and drill a socket in the other, which ensured co-linearity. I also welded a one piece sleeve over the top and drilled and pinned both just for giggles. Admittedly the car doesn't get the hard forward and reverse load cycles yours do, but they're still together!
Unfortunately my lathe’s spindle just isn’t quite big enough for the shaft and it’s too long otherwise. Many ways to skin a cat I get!
Interesting to see a video showing a different way of joining shafts. I've built a set recently but machined collars that were a very close fit to keep the shafts concentric.
Nice video, i work on my shorten drive shaft too, but i put a Pin bar in both of center diameter of shaft to make it stronger shocked them then welding it together.
Another really ace video! It's great to see how well the channel is coming along, keep up the good work!
Cheers buddy! You keep watching, I’ll keep making them!
I work at a place that pumps out 1/4 million OEM driveshafts a month, and your process is just a home shop version of ours. We have a friction welder for shafts, then heat treatment, then a straightening machine that is literally an automated version of the measuring and bending process you show. We even crack check with a similar method too. The most common failure location is the tiny gutter where the spline teeth end, as it's usually the smallest diameter and in a highly stressed area. Nice job.
That’s very interesting to know, I have been involved with shaft manufacture but not automotive drive shafts… great info to know! Cheers 👍
Excellent video. I’ve done many engine conversions that I have made shafts in exactly the same way, although I leave it 5”-7” long and drill some holes in and then fill with weld. Just for added strength. The video at 14.06 reminds me of my drive to work when trying to squeeze a 15min drive into 5mins 😂😂
Keep up the good work 👍
Cheers buddy… I will keep making and breaking!!
This is the first of your videos I've seen and I'm actually impressed! Stuff I should have considered myself when fabricating my shafts for my 6 speed swapped MK2 golf 8 years ago now. Those shafts came out this week.
Better than £800 for shafts! And allowed for extra camber and track width for track time! 😎
£800! 😳 man I knew I couldn’t afford custom shafts! 😂 and a swapped Mk2! (Please tell me it has the big 16v bumpers 😍)
@@MakingforMotorsport It's crazy right!? And it is. A White Big bumper, but it's 5 door. All I wanted was a clean shell all that time ago! Learnt everything I know from that car going back almost 10 years now!
Almost scared to work on it seeing the values of them currently. 😬
I'm hot for a classic mini though. I see it sitting in this video. And I swear I can hear the thromps from those throttle bodies! 😅
My 4x4 front prop is solid (as opposed to a tube like normal) - it needed shortening. So we cut it, created a sleeve that went over the join. Cross drilled it and doweled and finally tigged either end of the sleeve to the shaft. This ensures it’s perfectly true. Engine is. 5.7 twin turbo driving 35” mud tyre’s - worked for the last 15+ years
A Belt Sander attachment for the grinder can make it easier to get all the paint/coatings off the driveshaft as the belt would be sanding around the circumference instead of using a grinder wheel making flats around the circumference of the shaft
It’s a good shout, I need to get myself a proper belt grinder… it’s been on the list for a while!
Loved the clip of your driving! Italian Job worthy
Cheers bud… trying hard!
Great driving!!!
Just about to do a k20 engine in my 205 gti this as helped me big time thanks 😊
When an Mi16 on ITBs isn’t enough… K20 that pocket rocket! Best of luck my fried… that’ll be a machine!
20k subs.. Congratulations 👍
Great engineer, a lot of common sense which I like to see.
Haha… cheers bud, the common sense makes me smile… I am gonna show that to my wife!! (She disagrees!)
@@MakingforMotorsport I do similar things to my weekend car. She keeps saying it is waste of time.
I keep waste it. So much of it.
Post 2 years comment. If you press fit both half shafts into the sleeve and have a few holes in the sleeve to plug weld you can ensure a very accurate shaft balance
I cut and shortened two driveshaft's when we put a Metro turbo engine into a Mini as we wanted to keep the wheel spacing the same width as a mini, that was in the 90's and 1000's of miles later they are still holding, everyone at the time said it wouldn't last five minutes, I turned out sleeves on the lathe and welded it all with a nickel chrome stick welding rod
Love the vid.
Thanks for sharing
Cheers bud!
Love your videos mate keep the quality work👌
Cheers bud!
You have an amazing channel. You've got me subbed just for the technical description. It was the 3d printed cad hub that got recommended to me!!
Cheers bud, glad you’ve found it! Thanks for watching…
My cg13de mini on the machinist's suggestion we machined down the larger diameter shaft and cut the mini CV splines on this, no welds or heat effected zones and really pretty cheap. No problems so far (about 5 years). There's a question about losing the hardening on the splines though... I've not seen anyone else do it this way but I'm not sure why not as it's worked fine for me.
I need to get myself a tame machinist…. Unfortunately I only know of a couple of shops and I am not there often enough for “mates rates” 😩
Make the join closer to the other end, more mini shaft allows more twist, so less impulse (shock) to the join, . On run-out, checking with wide V blocks is good then moving your V blocks closer to the misalignment will let the press straighten the problem and get the centrelines of the spline shafts more inline. Wide V blocks bows the whole shaft.
Good stuff! Lots of good tips in this video, I’m glad I found it. You earned yourself a new subscriber.
Cheers bud, glad you are enjoying it!
Thanks for an interesting video. Your method obviously works. The one shaft that broke at the sleeve might have been avoided if you could blend and polish in a large radius with a flap wheel. The location where one blob of filler metal touches the next is a "sharp" internal radius. The stress concentration goes up as one over the dimension of the radius. You can see the factory made a large internal radius where the shaft had to change diameter.
Yeah, in retrospect it’s a obvious stress concentration point, some guys are suggesting a “wavy” cut on the end of the shaft with a hole saw which I will definitely be doing next time! 👍
I love your videos, I hope I'll be able to upload some similar content in the near future
Cheers bud! I had been thinking about this channel for years, wish I’d started then…. All I can say is start now!! (And I hope you like editing!! 😂😂😩😩)
Great video and great timing, I was thinking of converting solid diff Autoslalom Locost to IRS, with subaru impreza pieces. I'm was looking for inspiration on how to shorten the driveshaft... Keep the the DIY videos coming, Motorsport is fun on the track and in the garage, even better when it doesn't break the bank
I think the sleeve method is the way to go, but picking up on the comments, cutting the end of the sleeve with a hole saw so it “wavy” and on a radial ring should reduce the stress raisers and make it even stronger!
@@MakingforMotorsport That is a good suggestion.
There was an interesting thread on Retrorides (I think it was a Hillman Imp) with a guy who made his own shafts, one broke so he re-made them extremely well
Awesome video and damn you really handle that car!
I learnt all I know from McDonalds car parks! (That may not translate across the pond but I’m sure you get the idea 😉🤣)
I'm impressed with your ingenuity. I came here from 'Pakistani Truck' who are also expert turd polishers.
You chad you. So much i didn't know and now know.
After a small amount of internet research I believe that chad is complimentary… so thank you very much!
All the way through this you'd be thinking " One day I'll be able to 3 D print this " I've done this a few times for various application, rally included. The only difference is that I cut about a 30mm step (key ) For rally I do a longer sleeve and plug weld it, and get them balanced. Usually do 3 gravel meetings, or 4 /5 tarmac meeting before checking, or replacing them. That spray check stuff is good for checking roll cage welds.
pre heating the drive shaft before welding would be a good idea also you did not say what filler wire you used but 309 would be best
I turned the shafts so that one fitted inside the other to ensure alignment. Then I made a sleeve which was fishmouthed at each end so that your not welding directly around in one spot. Seems to be working ok so far.
Maybe creating center holes and a corresponding center pin on a lathe may diminish warping by the welding and save time straightening the combined shafts. Also making the shaft ends to be welded properly round and same diameter on the lathe would help more accurate straightening. I do suspect that the cause of the broken shafts at / around the splines lies in the misalignment as the negative impact concentrates there.
A quality bodge.
Just a machinist's input, but next time you press your shaft to straighten it (or something similar) mount the DTI UNDER the job. Then use a low point instead, set as 0, rotate to get a reading of how far out it is across 180 degrees, then you can press and measure your alteration at the same time as the press will be pushing towards the DTI.
Using the dti to measure is a great idea… I’m abit tight on space in the garage but I’ll try that next time 👍
Seen a few people test this I know the boosted boiz don't it with a AWD 900+ whp car those lasted and garage54 have done it will cam shaft cranks shaft and driveshafts and not had a problem either.
Garage54 does some mental stuff… and the boostedboiz are giving it a much harder time than me so I think we’re good! 👍
I chickened out and bought a propshaft for my rear wheel drive project, but just thinking about your method for a potential future project.
So, if it wasn't for you heat affected area, your joint would be stronger than the original shafts I suspect. Bigger second moment of area and all that jibberish.
So would it be better (or worse) to weld the outer tube with a series of cold short tacks?
This would somewhat prevent the heat affected area +at least at the sleeve ends), but you would have weaker welds with less penetration (on the sleeve).
But since you've got the internal weld with the outer sleeve for good measure could it not still end up being stronger than the original shaft, even if the outer sleeve has very little penetration?
A good video for someone to make would be to torque test different welding methods on shafts to destruction.
I think you’re right and if I can address the metallurgy problems in the HAZ then it would stronger I think, but I wouldn’t go for anything less than full puddle weld with good penetration.
The joy with prop shafts is that you can often cut off the UJ yokes and either cut down the tube or put a longer one in…. It they do have to be balanced due to the bigger diameters involved 👍
@@MakingforMotorsport ye, my main concern with the propshaft was not really knowing what would happen if it failed.
It would be about 6" away from my arrse with GRP and a tiny bit of steel box section to block it.
I'm pretty sure I could have welded it properly. But what if????
Hope the guys that made it for me know what they are doing 🤣
@@richardschofield2201 🤞🤞🙏🙏
You do it the same way my brother does on his 4wd 400+ hp abused heap of s#:£ and never broke one yet. Normally ends up being the drive shaft that’s still holding that corner together
I do love an abused heap of sh1t!
What about friction welding? In theory it could work and be much more durable? I imagine that it would be rather difficult to keep the centerline straight.
Friction welding would be ideal for dissimilar and “unweldable” materials but the kit required is quite something… I’ll keep my little TIG welder I think 🙈
Useful stuff 😎 Just joined the Patreon, is there a discord? Saw a mention but can’t see the link, good possibility I’m just blind though 😂
Thanks for joining! Top man! I have sent you the link, I have to do it manually as they only have like a week validity.
Check your Patreon account 👍
@@MakingforMotorsport Awesome, cheers! 😎
I think that's the kind of modification is is perfectly acceptable for auto test but if it were for circuit use a properly done shaft would be the way to go.
It's shafts were one of the reasons I decided against putting a k24 into my 405 and instead have decide to go with a 2.3ltr stroker gti6 engine
It’s kind of one of those things… if I were doing something that had £400 entry fees I would fear a non-finish a lot more…. But I reckon this is plenty strong enough for circuit racing…
And I wanna know more about a 2.3 GTi6 engine! That’s gotta be a beast! Custom crank?
@@MakingforMotorsport that would be my trail of thought on it. Likely strong enough for circuit racing but I wouldn't want to chance the failure.
The 2.3 is a reasonably budget friendly build the way I am doing it (for the bottom end anyway)
96mm 2.2 hdi crankshaft
158mm pec turbo conrods for a gti6
Honda k20 87mm pistons
280degree cams
Adjustable cam pulleys
Ported head
Arp head and crank studs
Hdi oil squirters
Big capacity baffled sump
Planning a custom intake manifold rather than throttle bodies purely so I can mirror polish it along with anything else aluminium
I have heard of people drilling holes in the sleeves and plug welding them. I would imagine they would be on the longer side.
I think that would work, and also less likely to generate stress raisers 👍
Is balancing ever an issue with vibrations etc. Just curious as rear drive shafts get balanced I'm no pro on cv shafts just wanna learn some stuff
I don’t tend to spin these fast as I am only in 1st gear (although that means lots of torque!) but at normal road speeds (under 100mph) I am not seeing this as a problem.
Prop shafts need balancing in RWD applications but they spin 3times faster as they are before the final drive gear, are much longer.
That said, I’d make even more effort to get them as straight as possible if I was doing 100mph+ but it’d be good I think
I welded a broken shaft back together but didnt have a sleeve available . chamfered the edges and tig welded it . will it be ok ? or do you always need a sleeve ?
Never tried without the sleeve to be honest so I don’t know. For light duty I reckon it would work but I am going for overkill… 👍
I've always imagined if I ever needed to shorten a longitudinal driveshaft I'd cut it at one end near a U-joint rather than in the middle. The idea being if the angle wasn't perfectly straight it wouldn't matter as much. I suppose you can't really do that with axles since that would put the joint under the boot? Or is there some additional reason that makes it better to join shafts in the middle portion instead on one end?
Yeah that is the best way to do them for the DIY guy. It's how I do mine. Lengthening them I would get a longer tube the right size instead but that's for 'Driveshafts' only.
'Stub Axles' like what this guy is doing have heat treats and are usually machined. You have to very careful and at least a good understanding welder to shorten or lengthen stub axles or CV shafts (basically same) reliably. Stub axles I'd rather buy first if it's possible but if not I'd take them apart to what process is need to change length. I would make that change more near the ends if possible and set up a jig and prep for rollout before laying on weld, not afterwards if you want any real hope of something that is straight.
I went with the place I did due to the similar diameters… and as long as the shaft is “straight”, I don’t think it matters.
The reason for re-welding at the UJ yoke on a prop shaft is that there is already a weld there, and they sometimes pick up axial alignment with a bore… if you already have a weld, why make another? I am not so lucky…
So the heat treats on these are there for the splines and it’s only a “case harden” rather than a full through heat treat as that would be far too brittle.
Like I say in the video, co-axial at the joint is most important, you could jig that to a girder and it would move all over the place with that much weld and heat in it.
Even OEM driveshafts still need straightening post friction weld….
@@MakingforMotorsport Seen that process too, I use to manufacture them and I have seen driveshafts made aftermarket and the long ones they do straighten afterwards. I straighten them and check runout before hand while I'm welding them up and my result is usually within 1-2 thou runout. It comes out better but then that's what the jig was for.
You probably won't see full induction hardening on cheapy old axles especially on old cars so welding, but ye you got keep that in mind.
Great video! Is the mini the best car for that type of event?
Minis are always popular and generally a good choice, cut the roof off and they are even faster… Lotus 7 style cars are also super quick! I have an event report video which you may find interesting….
@@MakingforMotorsport that's interesting! Yeah I wondered if FF is better than FR for an event like that? I'd definitely be interested in that!
Did you use like a hard facing filler rod on just a mild steel?
No need to… hard facing gives you nothing here, and I think a bit of flexibility here helps so these are just my standard all purpose TIG filler
They harden these by dropping them through a high current coil at the factory. Utterly mental as it goes in cold and drops out red hot.
The speed the make these aswell i something else
You seem to run those shafts at a fairly low speed.
I'd suspect that for higher speeds (like circuit racing) you'd need to balance them.
I haven’t had the opportunity to run these at high speed… but you may be right… but that said… with less than 0.25mm run out it should be pretty close
Did you get to keep the 3d scanner?
I did yeah, I will be incorporating it into my workflow as needed… it’s a great tool but not the best tool for every job
is that Bovingdon?
Not this airfield, it’s a disused old airfield just south of York… but they all tend to look the same 😂
Do you make shafts for customers?
Not really, I have a full time job so my free time is just for my stuff and you tube (and my kids…. 😂)
You could tel that old failed shaft didnt have good penetration of the weld...
I bet every weld since, has been better.
Looking at it in person, you can see the scale-like formation from a fatigue crack growth… potentially from a surface crack…. In the future every 4-5 events I will pull the shafts and DyePen them… that’s should catch any failures like this…
Hmmm. I wonder how well this would hold up to a Subaru connected to GM V8 hardware...
Only one way to find out! 🤣
@@MakingforMotorsport this has already made up my mind. I'm going to carefully measure and then make my own axle shaft. And then when I'm sure that works I'll go back and order custom shafts. But this way I know the shaft will be the perfect fit.
Ofcourse we could find a quality workshop with a friction welder, and do 2 axles in 10 mins including setup time, find a suitable place and offer unlimited advertising via TH-cam for their bussiness and they may do it for a very reasonable price?
Small tiny car will little power, lot's people do it like this. Heavy cars with any appreciable power these almost always fail. For what you use them for would be perfectly acceptable.
I am not so sure.. plenty of comments on here doing it with 300hp plus who have done it like this…. Remember, it’s not power but torque that kills shafts…
I look forward to trying it with a bigger motor!
@@MakingforMotorsport Yeah I usually hear about them breaking with motors making more than 400hp with similar torque. I feel bad for the people with Datsuns that boost them. Even some BMW guys, just not as common around here with beamers.
Why did you not do it on the lathe would have been perfect and tig is to weak and will also be out of balance I Think
:)
I have always wondered about this! thanks for making the video so detailed!
I wonder if tempering the whole shaft after welding would make the cracks less likely to appear on the heat affected zone?
Temper would not likely do it as that’s normally “low” temperature and that’s pretty much what the welding does anyway as the middle 4” is about 450c, but a full heat and anneal might help but I don’t wanna lose any hardness on the spline area…
That shaft lasted 2 years of the worse abuse I could give it… it did well!
Please take this as constructive criticism, but wouldn't the "right way" be to use a lathe for a lot of this? After cutting them, you could use the lathe to clean them up so your runout test wouldn't have any rough spots, your mating surfaces for welding would have been a much better match. Plus, if the welder was co-located with the lathe (as opposed to the lathe being in someone's machine shop), you could actually put them in the lathe for welding eliminating the need for the angle bracket. DIY, yes. Right way? Not sure.
It’s a good point on cleaning up the surfaces to be absolutely sure on run out, but you never weld in a lathe, spatter on the ways, current running through the bearings… bad joo joo….
When I said “right way” I mean more the idea of measuring and correcting run out and then checking the weld…
It doesn’t really matter, the “right” way is to make new and then harden the ends… anything else is just shades of bad.
(P.s. working title for this was “bodging driveshafts”! 😂)
@@MakingforMotorsport Yeah, that makes sense. Good info on welding in a lathe. I would not have thought about that. I'll have to keep that in mind.
You didn't want to use your 3D printer?
Even I wouldn’t try to make 3D printing for this…. (Maybe next time? 😂)
@@MakingforMotorsport You could use a 3D print to align both shafts (so that they're perfectly concentric) and tack them in place
@@anidiotinaracingcar4874 you took the words out my mouth!
1:59
Ah fuck, I can’t believe you’ve done this!
th-cam.com/video/wKbU8B-QVZk/w-d-xo.html
Welding 101: Expose the root of the weld or this happens.
Sorry dude, don’t get it…. What’s “this”?
Why not Make a whole new shaft from bulk its a lot easier. Or get over lenght Opel shaft and do only The other end?? Std Will do on auch small car. Wtf
Okay… I am going to presume that you have never “made a whole shaft from bulk” in your garage…
@@MakingforMotorsport usually i do. And mostly i get over lenght stuff and grind ends only. Nice try still hope IT Works. 3000nm on 355 BASIC steel should be no lesser prob than ua on russia. So this A lot More stiffer GT from Finland
@@MakingforMotorsport presuming 25mm thickness on 355 std
Overall this should be a good and reasonable approach. What you just did. at least good Start.
Without the proper tools (milling machine with a dividing head Chuck on a-axis or a shaper/broach or rolling machine) I don’t see how you are doing it with any accuracy at all… and then it (may) need case hardening… well beyond the home enthusiast….
❗ Ｐｒⓞм𝕠𝕤𝐌
Good stuff! Lots of good tips in this video, I’m glad I found it. You earned yourself a new subscriber.
Cheers buddy 👍