@@David-xt1wj "it couldn’t be done in reality therefore it should be impossible in a game where you are free to choose your options too!"?????? As stated, the program was obviously supposed to be a challenge, but the rewards should be higher than this
Plan Z requirements are rather accurate to what Germany had in mind for their naval reforrm, thing is that plan was to be completed by 1948, and it was approved in 1939, so Paradox wants us to throw every resource available early on to build over the top dockyards to build an over the top navy vs the AI to get 1 small buff and naval exp. It would be nice if you could get a national focus like Regia Marina which gives buffs here and there.
@@Corristo1994 Imagine if the Kriegsmarine would have been able to just absorb (and propperly position and man) the French fleet after their surrender. Would have been a stretch for the RN to keep those shipping lanes save
@@markusz4447 That's why the Royal Navy sank a lot of the French Navy at Mers-el-Kebir. The French fleet wouldn't sail to Malta or the French Caribes after the French capitulation, as the British asked. So the Royal Navy sank their former allies. The British meant bussiness in Naval matters, because they knew it was life or death to them.
@@markusz4447 True. But the French were fooling around and delaying. The British even sent over a motor launch with an officer to bring the ultimatum to the French Fleet commander in Mers-el-Kebir. He didn't want to see that officer because he was of too low a rank...
If you notice, the production code for CV planes is missing for France, Japan, and USA. I've submitted a bug report and fixed it in my own files. I also changed the files so the AI actually builds updated ships (90% of the AI build que would consist of lvl 1 mine layers and sweepers). Made the naval game a lot more fun. Thanks for the video!
Well, they partially listened: all countries will now build carrier aircraft if they have carriers AND increased carrier aircraft wanted buffer for countries with carriers to 1.5x total deck space
I actually really enjoy delving into navy. Probably because it’s this treasure trove of unexplored potential and freedom. Specifically when trying to not just bathtub spam or meta play it. AI’s do jack with their navy, so even though numbers might be scary, you will be up against mostly 36 and pre war ships. So you can make a quality 60 ship fleet. Personally, i really like making specialized ships, so I make 3 or so of each kind, and put them into different fleets. My goto is a main battlefleet with an abundance of torpedoes, aa, with an even mix of heavy/light attack, a spotting fleet of l cruisers and destroyers, and a convoy escort fleet of destroyers with nothing but depth charges. As unoptimal as it is to sink time and effort into navy, making an imposing armada from scratch that rivals the dominant naval powers is one of the most satisfying experiences i have in hoi.
I play road to 56 and usually go with 4 carriers, 4 Battlecruisers and assorted Cruiser and destroyers. if you tech right you can get everything above 32 knots speed and can do circles around the ai.
I make a split navy from the starting navy, build a modern and great navy, and send them to sea to see me destroying 12 subs per battle and bearly taking any damage or 1 sunk destroyer. So funny
If you use this strategy for a sea-lion once WW2 starts, you can easily capture GB and reverse D-Day france (all the allies in lowlands + maginot is a bit hard to break). Then you capture the complete British and French navy in the peace treaty, and those ships contribute to completing Plan Z.
I mean, historically the All or nothing armour scheme (Tech III in HOI) was a design feature as far back as WWI, therefore having no date restriction makes sense
At least the United States Navy was using the "all or nothing" armor scheme before the war started. Basicaly it's where you only armor the crital parts of the ship and let the rest go. So shells might go right through the cafeteria but will, hopefully, be stopped before the hit the engine. I'm sure other navies were using it as well but I'm not sure about them.
@@InfiniteDeckhand is it fair though? Yamato was launched in 1940..war kinda already started. Not the, japan vs US and allies part of the war but, technically...
The USN was planning for a fight in the Pacific where they have all the space to move. Brits were planning to fight in the Med, where there is little to no space to move so they needed the heavier deck armor for their CVs. Different needs breed different machines.
Man i played navy germany like 5 times and it's so much fun in SP. The industrial capacity you get early on results in an enjoyable navy building. One time i meme'd using only CV Cruiser Hull and destroyers and got like more than 30 CVs just floating around in the atlantic convoy raiding and patrolling. The kaiser path gives a pretty good ships production cost and research bonus. The only thing sucks with SP navy is just the enemy AI, they don't seem like adapt or make good and more ships through the game. So say you beat the royal navy like in 3 decisive battle and destroyed their navy, and that's it. I'd recommend people to play navy in SP, especially germany or facist netherlands. In facist path netherland, you can get the "Assume naval burden" for -10% production cost of all ships, and naval heritage which gives 20% dockyard output. Once i beat the royal navy with facist dutch and it was fun.
Fascist Italy and going for Stresa Front and 'Italy's Destiny' is also quite fun, while latter gives war goals against the entire balkans (+ turkey), it also gives spotting speed +15%, capital ship attack +10%, dockyard output +15%, positioning +10% and dockyard construction speed +20%. Single best focus for navy I've found in any nations focus tree, especially since theres still an entire naval-focus branch to further augment it. Also Italy has Engine 3s for BBs and BCs right off the bat, + 'OTO Naval Guns' Focus, which basically allow Italy to build 3-4 max armor, heavy battery 3 BBs w/ engine 3 by early/mid '37, which are completed at around early/mid 39, around which a proper fleet can be built. Also, Italy has 7 absolutely garbage heavy cruisers, which are just asking to be refitted into cruiser hull carriers.
I consider myself one of those rare players who enjoys making a navy. I particularly enjoy playing a minor nation like Canada, Australia, Portugal etc. and building a carrier or two. Because you can unleash hell on enemy convoys even with one carrier and a small fleet. Its good with Africa or Asia when you’re with whatever side and you can just starve entire armies of attrition. Very fun!
Navy is one of the most poorly understood mechanics of HOI in my opinion. unfortunately, while it is actually rather simple, the cost in research, resources, and time is just too much for many players when bath tubs and naval bombers are so cheap yet almost stupidly effective. Paradox could probably nerf subs to try and get a better naval game, but the time required to make a decent ship is very steep for how little time most games have. that being said I always do navy.
The historical Plan Z required (roughly) that list of ships (actually, less BB and more SHBB). The German naval high command abandoned it just before the war kicked off in September 1939. It was initially a plan to reach near parity with the British navy, with the intent of going to war with the UK in 1945. As tensions increased, Hitler and Raeder realized that this was an unrealistic start date for the war, and scrapped the plan, building only the first two fast battleships to completion (Bismarck and Tirpitz). The event functions as designed! It's supposed to be impossible, just some fun historical flavor.
I understand why the requirements for the plan z decision are so high, because that is the amount of ships that were planed for that, but I fell like they should do this in multiple steps
Always take Concealment Expert. The damage reduction of -visibility scales exponentially. Fleet size penalty is minimal and only comes into effect in battles where you're already winning; it's a win more trait and fleet size penalty does not matter.
meta gamers seethe realizing the optimal strat is to basically do things realistically. Lower numbers of good and diverse units instead of Inf spam. Diverse your airforce, build good ships instead of tubs. Dont blob. In MP games Ive done everyone does these really insane blobbing strats and I just chill and take what I can through focuses while building up. Insane how many games I've had no issues winning that way.
What I realized is that there's diminishing returns on dockyards, so when I finish my really big ships with full dockyards, I load the screens up with three dockyards each so every batch I get more than if I just built them with full dockyards
@@FeedbackGaming really? But when I assign dockyards the second one shaves the time off by years, the third one does half a year, and the forth one only removes a couple of months from the production time
@@FeedbackGaming Oh sorry, it seems like I am stupid, that's just math because the second dockyard doubles your production and the third only increases it by 1/3
Sometimes I do games like this just for fun. It's definitely not META but playing the META way every time become boring after a while. Naval Germany and Naval USSR are IMO fun challenges to do instead of just crushing everything with infantry and submarine spam.
The reason all or nothing armour has no date is because it first entered use in 1912 with the US and was adopted by other nations soon after for example the nelson class of the UK and eventually the yamato class of Japan
Not that anyone asked but my preferred heavy ship template has nothing but engine 1, heavy gun 1, and battlecruiser armor 1 nothing more. If you have enough screens they don't need soft attack and the cheaper cost will mean you'll pump them out like heavy cruisers.
I wish they’d drop the overstacking penalty for carriers. I know we spam planes but that’s how the pacific was fought. Hell the battle of Leyte gulf had 1,500 US aircraft just from their carriers. 8 fleet, 9 light, and 18 escort carriers. They should buff AA instead
The trick I use is - most (or all) if the early German U-boats have two weapons spaces, torp takes up one, the other is empty. I modify it so the other space is for mines. They becoming the "mining fleet", set to never engage. Invading the UK is a lot easier with 500 mines playing blocking line for the German Navy. Doesn't take that long to build up 500 mines.
What I always do I do deck conversions on the two light cruisers you start with, the bremer and bremese or whatever they are called, the ones in the skull fleet. Give them 20-40 deck space and add them to your main fleet with either 50% fighters / 50% Naval bombers or just full naval bombers and it honestly turns the tables so much. It's all I ever do for navy and I usually wind up winning the naval war.
The main recommendation I have to adjust this is set up 2 or 3 scouting forces consisting of a scouting cruiser (cl built to spot everything) and 3 antisub dds to do regional patrols / convoy raiding while the main fleet saves fuel as a strike force.
Maybe your capitals could sink more enemy capitals if you actually put guns in your gun slots. The cost increase is low but the heavy damage would be doubled
@@Ronald98 you could probably beat it with light cruisers and destroyers if you build them properly (light cruisers to kill the destroyers, the destroyers for torpedoes)
@@mike-yd4pyno it doesn't, that's the whole point and his video proves it. He wonders why his battleships are useless, it's because he didn't put any guns on it
I believe this was recorded on an earlier patch or you've performed some sort of black magic since you can't design those planes as of now. 1. You can't have air brakes and torpedoes on a plane at the same time 2. You can't put floats on a carrier plane These limitations do make sense realistically since torpedoes don't really take advantage of dive brakes and a plane with floats isn't really supposed to land or take off from a carrier
the reason nobody declares on luxemburg, is it because literally EVERY hoi4 youtuber forgets, or is it some kind of insider meme? or is there something game mechanic related?
To perfect the game you could have got a license carrier from Japan and produce one of it while you research carriers for yourself with an additional 20% bonus.
overstacking your destroyers with torpedos anihilates enemy fleets as your destroyers are so quick they can get away/outmanover the enemy while dealing a ton of damage
You'll get a lot more effective use out of your navy if you don't deathstack them into a single task force. At a bare minimum, you should have a smaller spotting fleet so you don't use so much fuel on your main one. You can set them to do not engage even, so they'll just spot enemy fleets for your larger task forces to intercept.
I never use subs in a fleet , always separate , they require different water to operate efficiently and slow , I always have just 3 fleets , a main strike force , a smaller one and subs
I make crap screens, I used to make good ones... but then naval air patrol became a thing and all the sudden a handful of planes was doing the job of dozens of ships. That's not to say I don't make screens anymore, I just make dozens of gun 1, AA 1, torp 1, engine and depth charge destroyer 2s with engine 2s for the early parts of the war. As techs trickle down I make them slightly better, radars, sonars, and if the game runs long enough I only make fancy 4s with the highest tier stuff. The garbage screens are still good for naval combat (the actual screening)... it's just the planes work better for the spotting part.
Put AA on your carriers. Use fast CA instead of BB. DD only needs min requirements, maybe a torp if you really want to. Also the CV planes should only have a torp, the rest is just wasted IC.
@@Ronald98 I assume its because a naval bomber doesnt need air attack because his mission is to just launch a torpedo, not to engage enemy planes. But even if you were to put cannons 2 on it, it wouldnt matter much IC wise as you will realistically only need 180/300 planes in an entire game, and by the time you build 1 carrier you will have enough even if they are expensive
My standard CV battle group is 4 CV, 3 BB, 2 BC, 4 CA, 8 CL and 52 DD. I have found that if you make 2 of these Battle Groups and deploy them in a single zone you will over match any other Navy in a single zone. Say UK in the South China Sea.
@@tuluppampam I guess I would say that's my ideal group. From attrition, repairs and production delays it is often different than the ideal. I prioritize DD and CV production. If you have at least 48 DD's in a group your fleet should do ok. If you have 2 or 3 groups.
The best way to defend your closeby waters is too take out all the destroyers and cruisers which have minelayers and then at the start of a war make them to minelay all the waters surrounding your homeland like if your japan minelay the right side waters to homeland japan and the after the 100% go to the left side and naval invasions to your homeland are nearly never gonna come in. also dont forget to make those minelayers into DO NOT ENGAGE MODE!! PLS PLS PLS
Has anyone else tried AA battlecruisers? They are cheaper to produce than heavy cruisers (from a PC to AA perspective; you have to mount a few heavy batteries on cruiser hulls to have more HP than the carriers) and perform the duties of both stopping heavy attack from hitting your carriers and baiting naval bombers into the AA
Isn't it more cheaper just to produce heavy cruiser, light cruiser, and destroyer rather than just going to produce capital ship to go against france and uk?
Most German Battleships had what is called a turtleback armor arrangement. For some reason that isn't an armor scheme in HoI 4. Thing is that if you take out a battleship of the British Navy are they able to replace it. They may have numbers but are they able to replace them if they are sunk.
I'm using 2 bc + 8 cls to raid the atlantic with the subs, loads os convoys being sunk Also made the cl meta of all guns and crushed de french navy in weeks
Gehring and Goebbels give their "Prestige Worldwide" pitch to Hitler complete with a "Boots und Hoes" film clip of them crashing a panzerschiff into a dock.
Should do a video on what build you use? By 1942 my game slows to a snails pace. Over 8000 hours sunk into playing the game over and over, but I have never reached 1945. To slow.
iv just come away from a game where i did none of that, i jsut justifed on the UK at the very start of the game soon as i had PP, then got navel dominance for a second, landed, killed them before france had even joined them with my starting german navy, then took the uk fleet and never have to build a ship ever.
Back then I abused that naval construction and mass produced Manfred von Richthofen, Mainz, Z46, and Hindenburg. I made like 12 or so of those carriers not counting the others.
I suspect everyone knows this but the reason the Plan Z requires so many ships is because those were the actual quotas in real life, If anything there should be more buffs to building the ships and increase the rewards you recieve if you complete it, Perhaps like 10% more attack against British, American, and French ships but that might be too strong.
The kicker with Plan Z is requiring very specific ships - like three Battlecruisers. If it was just changed to heavy hulls, cruisers and destroyers it would be much more 'fun'. Battlecruisers aren't even bad in my opinion - its just asking for only three and then a dozen Battleships. I don't like mixing the two - its one or the other, speed or armour.
Researching all or nothing in 1922 still makes sense. The Americans already had all of nothing scheme ships afloat by 1914. If the des intended otherwise, that's fair enough for balance purposes. But it would have been wiser maybe to name them differently in that case...
I used to play HOI but it got way to complicated for me to really understand what I am doing. So many things that need to be taken care of. I just want to fight and blow stuff up. I used to love this game it's so complex, so much research... I really miss it but I can't be bothered to play it again
Its fun but the latest balance of power and stuff can get annoying if you forget about it, but unless you're switzerland or doing some obscure focus tree path it doesnt really matter. Glad they made air/ship/tank designer the same basically and new supply system is great. If you want i can explain some of the newest updates
@@jimmymfs4314 I kinda preferred the old system, this is your plane/ship/tank upgrade it. Not the build your own kind. I don't need the latest updates. I probably won't be buying any of them anyway. Thanks through.
@@TheJudge2017 just look up some basic builds for your tanks, planes and ships and stick to it. Hoi4 can be brutally complicated but in most cases simple things work the best
I'm not a navy expert but whats the point of a big engine to get ur destroyers to 37.3 kn while ur capitals are stuck at like 30? And why a destroyer with depth charges but no sonar? How's that gonna find a sub and use the depth charges?
Schlesien and Schleswig-Holstein (the pre-Dreadnoughts) are also horribly slow and outdated IIRC, you'd probably be better off leaving them in a dockyard or sitting them in the Baltics.
Is there any point putting AA on your destroyers? At least in the past AFAIK planes will attack capital ships first so DDs would only get hit if they are alone in sub patrol roles etc.
You get reduced dmg from nav bombers depending on the total AA of your fleet, however you only need 50 AA to hit 24% reduction, and over 2000 AA to hit the cap at 50%. The AA on your carriers is enough to hit 50, all other ships should skip it to reduce cost and up speed.
@@alexwynters600 AFAIK the planes attack the slowest capital ship first so lading that with AA and armor should yield good results. If AA of the whole participating combat fleet is just counted all together then it should not matter who has the guns.
@@benbaselet2026 planes attack CV first, so putting the AA on them means you'll actually shoot some down. If you manage to lose your carriers then you've already lost cause the enemy planes will rip your capitals apart, regardless of whether they have AA or not.
Done this a few times normally just do heavy cruisers, much faster than the battleships making a much faster fleet. Find having the higher speed makes the enemy fleet sink faster.
@@gabe75001 Done it two ways, Max armour and no armour. With 3 main guns. Then I refit them all with the top secondaries, radar and fire control when war is about to start soon. Getting as much light attack as possible. The no armour strategy seemed to work better as I had more ships out and they deorged the enemy capitals way faster. You can also use tier 1 guns instead to get max speed as the bigger guns don't add much making the ship faster and a tiny bit cheaper. Didn't really notice a difference either way. Add in 4 carriers and the navy just dominates everything. It is easier to just make Nav bombers and a smaller navy, fight where you have green air and tons of nav bombers. But having a fleet is fun.
I've been doing the navy game ever since I discovered that with the carriers What I do is 4 carriers 4 battleships 4 Battle cruisers heavy cruisers light cruisers and then 25 submarines and 25 destroyers
They definitely need, i mean radar a little sub spotting, i think like 3 but a basic sonar has 8? Or something along those lines, but yeah sonar is way better specifically for subs.Im not sure what dave was doing in this video with those destroyers tbh
if you convert cruiser you can get a decent fleet by late 1939 as germany and naval invade the uk really quickly btw if you steal the british fleet, it will make you complete Plan Z
The problem with Plan Z isn't the ship numbers, it's historically accurate and shouldn't be changed, the problem is the ridiculously small rewards.
They could just make it an achievement
Dude if it would be historical accurate than we couldn’t do this the Z-Plan wasn’t even possible in reality
@@David-xt1wjit was legit planned for 1950. They actually tough that the allies would let them invade poland.
@@David-xt1wj "it couldn’t be done in reality therefore it should be impossible in a game where you are free to choose your options too!"??????
As stated, the program was obviously supposed to be a challenge, but the rewards should be higher than this
It could be nice if we got some dockyards and dockyard output with this focus, because it is unnecessary to do
Is it worth it? - No
Is it entertaining and enjoyable?- Absolutely
Plan Z requirements are rather accurate to what Germany had in mind for their naval reforrm, thing is that plan was to be completed by 1948, and it was approved in 1939, so Paradox wants us to throw every resource available early on to build over the top dockyards to build an over the top navy vs the AI to get 1 small buff and naval exp. It would be nice if you could get a national focus like Regia Marina which gives buffs here and there.
if you capitulate france and britain, you can take their navy and barely need to build ships yourself
@@Corristo1994 Imagine if the Kriegsmarine would have been able to just absorb (and propperly position and man) the French fleet after their surrender. Would have been a stretch for the RN to keep those shipping lanes save
@@markusz4447 That's why the Royal Navy sank a lot of the French Navy at Mers-el-Kebir. The French fleet wouldn't sail to Malta or the French Caribes after the French capitulation, as the British asked. So the Royal Navy sank their former allies. The British meant bussiness in Naval matters, because they knew it was life or death to them.
@@bwarre2884 i know. The french were rightfully pissed though
@@markusz4447 True. But the French were fooling around and delaying. The British even sent over a motor launch with an officer to bring the ultimatum to the French Fleet commander in Mers-el-Kebir. He didn't want to see that officer because he was of too low a rank...
If you notice, the production code for CV planes is missing for France, Japan, and USA. I've submitted a bug report and fixed it in my own files. I also changed the files so the AI actually builds updated ships (90% of the AI build que would consist of lvl 1 mine layers and sweepers). Made the naval game a lot more fun. Thanks for the video!
Is it possible for you to turn your code into a mod for AI Navy? I love playing Japan but the sea war is too easy
Well, they partially listened: all countries will now build carrier aircraft if they have carriers AND increased carrier aircraft wanted buffer for countries with carriers to 1.5x total deck space
They just patched that in the last update!
I want that too!
How did you post this 2 weeks ago
I actually really enjoy delving into navy. Probably because it’s this treasure trove of unexplored potential and freedom. Specifically when trying to not just bathtub spam or meta play it. AI’s do jack with their navy, so even though numbers might be scary, you will be up against mostly 36 and pre war ships. So you can make a quality 60 ship fleet. Personally, i really like making specialized ships, so I make 3 or so of each kind, and put them into different fleets. My goto is a main battlefleet with an abundance of torpedoes, aa, with an even mix of heavy/light attack, a spotting fleet of l cruisers and destroyers, and a convoy escort fleet of destroyers with nothing but depth charges. As unoptimal as it is to sink time and effort into navy, making an imposing armada from scratch that rivals the dominant naval powers is one of the most satisfying experiences i have in hoi.
same
I do the specialized ships as well, it's sooo fun!
I play road to 56 and usually go with 4 carriers, 4 Battlecruisers and assorted Cruiser and destroyers.
if you tech right you can get everything above 32 knots speed and can do circles around the ai.
Yeah!
I want the game to be fun, so making real navy is part of it!
I make a split navy from the starting navy, build a modern and great navy, and send them to sea to see me destroying 12 subs per battle and bearly taking any damage or 1 sunk destroyer. So funny
If you use this strategy for a sea-lion once WW2 starts, you can easily capture GB and reverse D-Day france (all the allies in lowlands + maginot is a bit hard to break). Then you capture the complete British and French navy in the peace treaty, and those ships contribute to completing Plan Z.
I mean, historically the All or nothing armour scheme (Tech III in HOI) was a design feature as far back as WWI, therefore having no date restriction makes sense
The plan z requirements are just the historical shops that they planned to build under the actual plan z
The plan is till 1945 tho
It's nice that it exists for RP, but the bonuses are trivial
At least the United States Navy was using the "all or nothing" armor scheme before the war started. Basicaly it's where you only armor the crital parts of the ship and let the rest go. So shells might go right through the cafeteria but will, hopefully, be stopped before the hit the engine. I'm sure other navies were using it as well but I'm not sure about them.
ah...uss Minneapolis. sailing around the pacific without it's bow~
@@InfiniteDeckhand I thought Japan was as well, but I wasn't certain so I didn't say anything. Thanks.
@@InfiniteDeckhand is it fair though? Yamato was launched in 1940..war kinda already started. Not the, japan vs US and allies part of the war but, technically...
@@InfiniteDeckhand in the thirties they didn't really built any other battleships than the yamatos? They upgradet a few older ones
The USN was planning for a fight in the Pacific where they have all the space to move. Brits were planning to fight in the Med, where there is little to no space to move so they needed the heavier deck armor for their CVs.
Different needs breed different machines.
Man i played navy germany like 5 times and it's so much fun in SP. The industrial capacity you get early on results in an enjoyable navy building. One time i meme'd using only CV Cruiser Hull and destroyers and got like more than 30 CVs just floating around in the atlantic convoy raiding and patrolling. The kaiser path gives a pretty good ships production cost and research bonus. The only thing sucks with SP navy is just the enemy AI, they don't seem like adapt or make good and more ships through the game. So say you beat the royal navy like in 3 decisive battle and destroyed their navy, and that's it. I'd recommend people to play navy in SP, especially germany or facist netherlands. In facist path netherland, you can get the "Assume naval burden" for -10% production cost of all ships, and naval heritage which gives 20% dockyard output. Once i beat the royal navy with facist dutch and it was fun.
Fascist Italy and going for Stresa Front and 'Italy's Destiny' is also quite fun, while latter gives war goals against the entire balkans (+ turkey), it also gives spotting speed +15%, capital ship attack +10%, dockyard output +15%, positioning +10% and dockyard construction speed +20%.
Single best focus for navy I've found in any nations focus tree, especially since theres still an entire naval-focus branch to further augment it.
Also Italy has Engine 3s for BBs and BCs right off the bat, + 'OTO Naval Guns' Focus, which basically allow Italy to build 3-4 max armor, heavy battery 3 BBs w/ engine 3 by early/mid '37, which are completed at around early/mid 39, around which a proper fleet can be built. Also, Italy has 7 absolutely garbage heavy cruisers, which are just asking to be refitted into cruiser hull carriers.
I consider myself one of those rare players who enjoys making a navy. I particularly enjoy playing a minor nation like Canada, Australia, Portugal etc. and building a carrier or two. Because you can unleash hell on enemy convoys even with one carrier and a small fleet. Its good with Africa or Asia when you’re with whatever side and you can just starve entire armies of attrition. Very fun!
Navy is one of the most poorly understood mechanics of HOI in my opinion. unfortunately, while it is actually rather simple, the cost in research, resources, and time is just too much for many players when bath tubs and naval bombers are so cheap yet almost stupidly effective. Paradox could probably nerf subs to try and get a better naval game, but the time required to make a decent ship is very steep for how little time most games have. that being said I always do navy.
What sort of fleets do you do and how do you design the ships? I wanna get more into navy but have little clue on where to begin
I love making big balanced navies. Its satisfying to watch the battles and you really fear the loss because of how long it takes to build a ship
The historical Plan Z required (roughly) that list of ships (actually, less BB and more SHBB). The German naval high command abandoned it just before the war kicked off in September 1939. It was initially a plan to reach near parity with the British navy, with the intent of going to war with the UK in 1945. As tensions increased, Hitler and Raeder realized that this was an unrealistic start date for the war, and scrapped the plan, building only the first two fast battleships to completion (Bismarck and Tirpitz). The event functions as designed! It's supposed to be impossible, just some fun historical flavor.
Respectfully, that is the least bit fun and flavorful. PDX has utterly neutered HOI4 in terms of role play.
@@FilliamPL Fully agree with you.
I understand why the requirements for the plan z decision are so high, because that is the amount of ships that were planed for that, but I fell like they should do this in multiple steps
yeah, it is way too much production you have to divert for a miniscule gain of 150XP and 5% War support. In phases would be more doable.
Always take Concealment Expert. The damage reduction of -visibility scales exponentially. Fleet size penalty is minimal and only comes into effect in battles where you're already winning; it's a win more trait and fleet size penalty does not matter.
Plus you got range. To project your naval power far far far toward East Coast USA
Can we accept that in this world he's in he hasn't launched a single war until 1939.
meta gamers seethe realizing the optimal strat is to basically do things realistically. Lower numbers of good and diverse units instead of Inf spam. Diverse your airforce, build good ships instead of tubs. Dont blob. In MP games Ive done everyone does these really insane blobbing strats and I just chill and take what I can through focuses while building up. Insane how many games I've had no issues winning that way.
@@joeshmoe6566 whats blobbing
@@IntrusYT conquering countries so you become a big country, a big colour on the map, or... a big *blob*
@@bestname6669 blobbing in hoi4 usually weakenss you. Unless you get cores and have ability to protect that land without overstretching.
@@oliwierbroda2575 im just telling him the definition of blobbing
Thanks!
Thanks lad. I appreciate the love
What I realized is that there's diminishing returns on dockyards, so when I finish my really big ships with full dockyards, I load the screens up with three dockyards each so every batch I get more than if I just built them with full dockyards
Thats not how dockyards work. There isn't diminishing returns for assigning more dockyards
@@FeedbackGaming really? But when I assign dockyards the second one shaves the time off by years, the third one does half a year, and the forth one only removes a couple of months from the production time
@@FeedbackGaming Oh sorry, it seems like I am stupid, that's just math because the second dockyard doubles your production and the third only increases it by 1/3
Math brain
Sometimes I do games like this just for fun. It's definitely not META but playing the META way every time become boring after a while.
Naval Germany and Naval USSR are IMO fun challenges to do instead of just crushing everything with infantry and submarine spam.
I have never been as disappointed in my life as when Plan-Z completion just gave me xp and nothing else.
Thanks for showing the link on stream!!
No joke I have done both German and Soviet navy and they are so very effective.
I hope Feedback's throat have a nice rest, always cheer to your content but take some rest and take care of yourself.
The reason all or nothing armour has no date is because it first entered use in 1912 with the US and was adopted by other nations soon after for example the nelson class of the UK and eventually the yamato class of Japan
Not that anyone asked but my preferred heavy ship template has nothing but engine 1, heavy gun 1, and battlecruiser armor 1 nothing more. If you have enough screens they don't need soft attack and the cheaper cost will mean you'll pump them out like heavy cruisers.
I wish they’d drop the overstacking penalty for carriers. I know we spam planes but that’s how the pacific was fought. Hell the battle of Leyte gulf had 1,500 US aircraft just from their carriers. 8 fleet, 9 light, and 18 escort carriers. They should buff AA instead
4 Super Battleships can be built by 39-40 with screens as well.
First word: "HITLER!"
Say goodbye to your monetization.
"He did good things, too. We've got to stop dissing the Nazis all the time." - Kanye 'Ye' West
"HITLER" is certainly a strong way to start the video. Still monetized so cheers! Truly a work of art, this video is!
The trick I use is - most (or all) if the early German U-boats have two weapons spaces, torp takes up one, the other is empty. I modify it so the other space is for mines. They becoming the "mining fleet", set to never engage. Invading the UK is a lot easier with 500 mines playing blocking line for the German Navy.
Doesn't take that long to build up 500 mines.
NGL I love Navy in this game. I must be the only one!
Hi, Found before release😂.
What I always do I do deck conversions on the two light cruisers you start with, the bremer and bremese or whatever they are called, the ones in the skull fleet. Give them 20-40 deck space and add them to your main fleet with either 50% fighters / 50% Naval bombers or just full naval bombers and it honestly turns the tables so much. It's all I ever do for navy and I usually wind up winning the naval war.
Naming carriers "carrier has arrived" is a great reference
I am surprised nobody else commented on that. I noticed it it in the thumbnail. Must not be a lot of overlap between Hoi4 and Starcraft.
The main recommendation I have to adjust this is set up 2 or 3 scouting forces consisting of a scouting cruiser (cl built to spot everything) and 3 antisub dds to do regional patrols / convoy raiding while the main fleet saves fuel as a strike force.
Maybe your capitals could sink more enemy capitals if you actually put guns in your gun slots. The cost increase is low but the heavy damage would be doubled
ikr like its 20% more cost for 2x damage
I don't think he realises that he can sink the RN with just good battleships and a handful of torpedo and AA destroyers....no carriers needed
@@Ronald98 you could probably beat it with light cruisers and destroyers if you build them properly (light cruisers to kill the destroyers, the destroyers for torpedoes)
The game doesn’t reward you for expensive ships it rewards you for spamming cheap hulls. Blame the game design.
@@mike-yd4pyno it doesn't, that's the whole point and his video proves it. He wonders why his battleships are useless, it's because he didn't put any guns on it
I believe this was recorded on an earlier patch or you've performed some sort of black magic since you can't design those planes as of now.
1. You can't have air brakes and torpedoes on a plane at the same time
2. You can't put floats on a carrier plane
These limitations do make sense realistically since torpedoes don't really take advantage of dive brakes and a plane with floats isn't really supposed to land or take off from a carrier
The all-or-nothing armour scheme was actually a WW1 idea so it makes sense that the tech counts as 1936 in-game!
the reason nobody declares on luxemburg, is it because literally EVERY hoi4 youtuber forgets, or is it some kind of insider meme? or is there something game mechanic related?
Your videos are fascinating
BASED!
0:27 we have small decks medium decks and large decks
To perfect the game you could have got a license carrier from Japan and produce one of it while you research carriers for yourself with an additional 20% bonus.
they never agree unless in the same faction
overstacking your destroyers with torpedos anihilates enemy fleets as your destroyers are so quick they can get away/outmanover the enemy while dealing a ton of damage
You'll get a lot more effective use out of your navy if you don't deathstack them into a single task force. At a bare minimum, you should have a smaller spotting fleet so you don't use so much fuel on your main one. You can set them to do not engage even, so they'll just spot enemy fleets for your larger task forces to intercept.
I never use subs in a fleet , always separate , they require different water to operate efficiently and slow , I always have just 3 fleets , a main strike force , a smaller one and subs
I love building a Navy and ruling the world with it.
I literally searched for navy germany 3 hours ago. What are the chances bro.
Nice first word in the video, I bet the youtube algorithm really appreciated it
Really digging the Protoss reference.
This is amazing I literally just did this yesterday!!!
I make crap screens, I used to make good ones... but then naval air patrol became a thing and all the sudden a handful of planes was doing the job of dozens of ships. That's not to say I don't make screens anymore, I just make dozens of gun 1, AA 1, torp 1, engine and depth charge destroyer 2s with engine 2s for the early parts of the war. As techs trickle down I make them slightly better, radars, sonars, and if the game runs long enough I only make fancy 4s with the highest tier stuff. The garbage screens are still good for naval combat (the actual screening)... it's just the planes work better for the spotting part.
You see, in 5 years I haven't learned about carriers...
Put AA on your carriers. Use fast CA instead of BB. DD only needs min requirements, maybe a torp if you really want to. Also the CV planes should only have a torp, the rest is just wasted IC.
Why wasted IC on CV planes? wouldn't more stuff on the plane be better?
@@Ronald98 I assume its because a naval bomber doesnt need air attack because his mission is to just launch a torpedo, not to engage enemy planes. But even if you were to put cannons 2 on it, it wouldnt matter much IC wise as you will realistically only need 180/300 planes in an entire game, and by the time you build 1 carrier you will have enough even if they are expensive
My standard CV battle group is 4 CV, 3 BB, 2 BC, 4 CA, 8 CL and 52 DD. I have found that if you make 2 of these Battle Groups and deploy them in a single zone you will over match any other Navy in a single zone. Say UK in the South China Sea.
İ never use battleships as usually the carriers will just kill everything, while battlecruisers are basically just as good yet cost a bit less
@@tuluppampam I guess I would say that's my ideal group. From attrition, repairs and production delays it is often different than the ideal. I prioritize DD and CV production. If you have at least 48 DD's in a group your fleet should do ok. If you have 2 or 3 groups.
0:16 Flench fleet
The best way to defend your closeby waters is too take out all the destroyers and cruisers which have minelayers and then at the start of a war make them to minelay all the waters surrounding your homeland like if your japan minelay the right side waters to homeland japan and the after the 100% go to the left side and naval invasions to your homeland are nearly never gonna come in. also dont forget to make those minelayers into DO NOT ENGAGE MODE!! PLS PLS PLS
And if your germany minelay Eastern north sea this will help significantly at least for me.
Always take Plan Z around the time you defeat the allies, french and british fleets will give you most of the ships you need for the bonus
“Was this video worth it? Nah not really just use submarines.” Lol
I saw that sly Starcraft reference Dave
Has anyone else tried AA battlecruisers? They are cheaper to produce than heavy cruisers (from a PC to AA perspective; you have to mount a few heavy batteries on cruiser hulls to have more HP than the carriers) and perform the duties of both stopping heavy attack from hitting your carriers and baiting naval bombers into the AA
Isn't it more cheaper just to produce heavy cruiser, light cruiser, and destroyer rather than just going to produce capital ship to go against france and uk?
TIL building carriers is a deck waving contest.
thanks for cool navy guide :)
"Carrier has arrived"... is that a Starcraft 2 refference?
"Carrier has arrived"
Ah, I see you're a man of culture as well!
The Requirements are not bad but Historical Accurate. The Rewards should be better then that.
I have breaking news for you Dave : in-game night, is only from 00AM to 06AM included. That's right. Night penalty reduction SUCKS.
Great opening there bud keep it spicy around here
Most German Battleships had what is called a turtleback armor arrangement. For some reason that isn't an armor scheme in HoI 4. Thing is that if you take out a battleship of the British Navy are they able to replace it. They may have numbers but are they able to replace them if they are sunk.
“Carrier has arrived” - Protoss Carrier SC2
This must be an earlier patch because you can’t put dive brakes on nav bombers anymore
I tend to neglect the navy, but I played with the 50 construction slots mod recently and made Eric Reader the best admiral in history. Lol
Best mod out there... can't play without it nowadays.
Can you make a similar video but with Soviet Navy? I’ve never seen anyone make a Red Navy before.
Before No Step Back? sure...now? absolutely not... trust me, it's not worth it and the debuffs are absolutely horrible.
I'm using 2 bc + 8 cls to raid the atlantic with the subs, loads os convoys being sunk
Also made the cl meta of all guns and crushed de french navy in weeks
In the end you sounded really sick.
Gehring and Goebbels give their "Prestige Worldwide" pitch to Hitler complete with a "Boots und Hoes" film clip of them crashing a panzerschiff into a dock.
Bro's voice died during the end of the video
Should do a video on what build you use? By 1942 my game slows to a snails pace. Over 8000 hours sunk into playing the game over and over, but I have never reached 1945. To slow.
Dave, if u put Guns on carrier naval bombers they will choose to only do one job, fighting or bombing.
iv just come away from a game where i did none of that, i jsut justifed on the UK at the very start of the game soon as i had PP, then got navel dominance for a second, landed, killed them before france had even joined them with my starting german navy, then took the uk fleet and never have to build a ship ever.
man speed ran the demonetization with the HITLER! at the start
this blew my mind
Back then I abused that naval construction and mass produced Manfred von Richthofen, Mainz, Z46, and Hindenburg. I made like 12 or so of those carriers not counting the others.
I suspect everyone knows this but the reason the Plan Z requires so many ships is because those were the actual quotas in real life, If anything there should be more buffs to building the ships and increase the rewards you recieve if you complete it, Perhaps like 10% more attack against British, American, and French ships but that might be too strong.
Maybe 5% torpedo crit hit chances
@@8Maduce50 I feel like that is too little but otherwise yeah, thats what I have in mind.
The kicker with Plan Z is requiring very specific ships - like three Battlecruisers. If it was just changed to heavy hulls, cruisers and destroyers it would be much more 'fun'.
Battlecruisers aren't even bad in my opinion - its just asking for only three and then a dozen Battleships. I don't like mixing the two - its one or the other, speed or armour.
And it needs better bonuses.
Like tiny bit of xp and war support for such big effort to build everything is crazy
Plan Z is an actual Nazi Germany 'Hitler's' Plan of making their navy more powerful it's not like Paradox invented it.
You really should use the naval command thing that gets the naval designer from 150pp to 30pp
Did anyone else notice the starcraft reference? "Carrier has arrived" love it
How will your DDs spot destroyers without any hydro?
It sucks how if you want a naval Germany, you have to dedicate so many resources to it and have little left for the air force or tanks
Researching all or nothing in 1922 still makes sense. The Americans already had all of nothing scheme ships afloat by 1914.
If the des intended otherwise, that's fair enough for balance purposes. But it would have been wiser maybe to name them differently in that case...
I foud if you dont increas the number of units on spcial forces you can make as meany as you want
I used to play HOI but it got way to complicated for me to really understand what I am doing. So many things that need to be taken care of. I just want to fight and blow stuff up. I used to love this game it's so complex, so much research... I really miss it but I can't be bothered to play it again
Its fun but the latest balance of power and stuff can get annoying if you forget about it, but unless you're switzerland or doing some obscure focus tree path it doesnt really matter. Glad they made air/ship/tank designer the same basically and new supply system is great. If you want i can explain some of the newest updates
@@jimmymfs4314 I kinda preferred the old system, this is your plane/ship/tank upgrade it. Not the build your own kind. I don't need the latest updates. I probably won't be buying any of them anyway. Thanks through.
@@TheJudge2017 Ah fair enough, to each their own
@@TheJudge2017 just look up some basic builds for your tanks, planes and ships and stick to it.
Hoi4 can be brutally complicated but in most cases simple things work the best
I'm not a navy expert but whats the point of a big engine to get ur destroyers to 37.3 kn while ur capitals are stuck at like 30? And why a destroyer with depth charges but no sonar? How's that gonna find a sub and use the depth charges?
Schlesien and Schleswig-Holstein (the pre-Dreadnoughts) are also horribly slow and outdated IIRC, you'd probably be better off leaving them in a dockyard or sitting them in the Baltics.
Totally agree. Shore bombardment is the only thing they are good for and what they actually did in the War.
Is there any point putting AA on your destroyers? At least in the past AFAIK planes will attack capital ships first so DDs would only get hit if they are alone in sub patrol roles etc.
You get reduced dmg from nav bombers depending on the total AA of your fleet, however you only need 50 AA to hit 24% reduction, and over 2000 AA to hit the cap at 50%.
The AA on your carriers is enough to hit 50, all other ships should skip it to reduce cost and up speed.
@@alexwynters600 AFAIK the planes attack the slowest capital ship first so lading that with AA and armor should yield good results. If AA of the whole participating combat fleet is just counted all together then it should not matter who has the guns.
@@benbaselet2026 planes attack CV first, so putting the AA on them means you'll actually shoot some down. If you manage to lose your carriers then you've already lost cause the enemy planes will rip your capitals apart, regardless of whether they have AA or not.
@@alexwynters600 That's what I always do.
Done this a few times normally just do heavy cruisers, much faster than the battleships making a much faster fleet. Find having the higher speed makes the enemy fleet sink faster.
What do you put on heavy cruisers?
@@gabe75001 Done it two ways, Max armour and no armour. With 3 main guns. Then I refit them all with the top secondaries, radar and fire control when war is about to start soon. Getting as much light attack as possible.
The no armour strategy seemed to work better as I had more ships out and they deorged the enemy capitals way faster.
You can also use tier 1 guns instead to get max speed as the bigger guns don't add much making the ship faster and a tiny bit cheaper. Didn't really notice a difference either way.
Add in 4 carriers and the navy just dominates everything. It is easier to just make Nav bombers and a smaller navy, fight where you have green air and tons of nav bombers. But having a fleet is fun.
I've been doing the navy game ever since I discovered that with the carriers What I do is 4 carriers 4 battleships 4 Battle cruisers heavy cruisers light cruisers and then 25 submarines and 25 destroyers
Why
Do destroyers not need sonar to counter subs? Have I been building these wrong all this time xD
They definitely need, i mean radar a little sub spotting, i think like 3 but a basic sonar has 8? Or something along those lines, but yeah sonar is way better specifically for subs.Im not sure what dave was doing in this video with those destroyers tbh
if you convert cruiser you can get a decent fleet by late 1939 as germany and naval invade the uk really quickly
btw if you steal the british fleet, it will make you complete Plan Z