Natives WON'T Correct All Your Mistakes
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- Follow Sachie on Instagram: / saaachie91
Language Isn't Math: • Language Isn't Math
Supplemental reading: www.antimoon.co...
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Make sure to follow Sachie on Instagram! She agreed to be in the video on the condition that I advertise her Instagram 😅: instagram.com/saaachie91/
Supplemental reading: www.antimoon.com/how/mistakes.htm
In hindsight, I wish I had found a less proficient English speaker to try and prove my point. Sachie has lived in the US for a year and actually has a pretty decent grasp of the language. It's not really comparable to someone who's been studying a new language for a few months.
Sorry if the video quality looks a little weird. I accidentally left the ISO on my camera on “audio”, so the brightness was constantly changing. Also last week I went outside for the first time in a while and got pretty sunburnt. I’m also quite overdue for a haircut but haven’t been able to get one due to the pandemic.
Here's a fun little skit I made together with Kaz from Eigonodo and Misa from Japanese Ammo with Misa. It's a tribute to Ken Shimura, the recently deceased Japanese comedy legend! th-cam.com/video/P6yZuEgAwNo/w-d-xo.html
what do you suggest for the learn ahead limit on anki for RRTK? Heres a link to vlads anki setting reccomendations, should we still follow this?: vladsperspective.wordpress.com/2017/03/14/optimize-your-anki-youre-overtesting-yourself-on-too-few-cards-make-huge-gains/
@@merkain6019 I don't think the learn ahead limit really matters.
Did she know you would use her conversation for youtube? (before recording)
Second part of this video should be: Matt trying to write Japanese and Sachie will check. xD :D
@@IntelligentAtheism 😂😂
Sachie is a trooper for allowing herself to be put in the spotlight like this. Good tips as usual.
I'll take it one further: constantly correcting or getting corrected during a conversation sets up either an adversarial or student/teacher relationship that ruins the mood for what should be a fun conversation. It's also somewhat egotistical or arrogant to expect friends or strangers to do for free on their free time what tutors get paid to do as a job.
Hey Nuke vs. Japan.
I keep reading your name as 抜けmarine.
@@obscurus1344 oh no
This x100
i just wanna be helpful
I swear your channel is the most useful language learning resource I've found, and I'm glad I found it .
I see you're a fan of the movie Whiplash
In general, I wouldn't assume that just because I used something as B-roll footage, I'm necessarily a fan of it. But, in this case, I do happen to like the movie Whiplash
not my ファキング tempo!!
@@mattvsjapan just asking but shouldn't it be 'necessarily' (3rd line)?
@@vanshika9920 Yes it should be, he's just made a typo in his hurry to reply.
Days of French 'n' Swedish smh Matt clearly started outputting English too soon.
now take into consideration that Japanese people try to be as polite and non-confrontive as one just can be. Thats wyh 99% of "make a japanese friend on the internet"-platforms are so 日本語が上手.
Just try to remember the Scene in Harry Potter forced to write "I must not lie" and he litteraly feels the pain while writing. I think thats what it is for a japanese to tell you YOU made an error or fault.
don't you 上手 me! ٩(๑`^´๑)۶
Yeah not even a paid teacher would correct all those mistakes, it would interrupt her too much and she couldn’t relax and talk more
Anyway good video Matt 🙏
When i was in high school a friend of mine would make fun of me because i couldn't speak english, but it actually helped me a lot with the pronunciation because he would pronounce the words right and i learned a lot from him, it does really help when someone is correcting you.
If she had changed the sentence order to “she has a shy personality” it would sound natural.
In real conversation though natural english speakers would generally say "she's shy", though. Correct =/= Natural.
No it wouldn't
@@benbisogno5578 "she's shy" can mean, in this specific situation
"she has a shy personality" can mean, that shes shy all the time,
they arent exactly the same but there is some overlap.
I'm a native English speaker. I have never heard another american say she or he has a shy personality. I've always heard they're shy.
only likely if they're stressing just how shy the person is, fx "she has quite a shy personality" but again more often you'd just hear "she's very shy"
7:06 For a moment, I was confused with Matt's moving eyebrows which got blended with his hair.
I also wanted to add that level of education also influences your style of speech. Someone with a very articulated or advanced speech may still sound off to an average native speaker.
That's crazy. I heard almost nothing wrong first time around hearing her. I only notice it when you pointed it out. I'm surrounded by foreigners though, so I hear kind of poor English all the time and got used to it.
lol I just watched the first minute and 30 seconds, and it already seems wayyy too petty. When I heard what she said I thought ''I didn't notice any mistakes''. We don't pronounce the ''r'' in UK English either, so the way she said turned 30 was just fine to me.
@Matt tbh I'm not a native English speaker and totally not used to listen to japanese people speaking in English. I had a very hard time to understand what she said. I have to confess that English pronunciation is bloody hard. Specially for japanese people since they have few phonems and only 5 vowels in their language.
Fantastic video. I believe, in order to reach a near-native level of fluency, one needs to spend an enormous amount of time is with native speakers in countless, real-life situations, observing closely how particular words and constructs are being utilised and stressed in specific scenarios.
A keen interest and correct utilisation of pitch and stress are the game changers in convincing native speakers you’re one of them.
Great addition to the Language Isn't Math video!
日本人です。この動画めっちゃためになります…！
5:46 Very nice sync.
Guys I'm MIA-er i love this guy he knows everything he's saying.... I started watching his content like 6 months ago even though i didn't understand more than 30%.now i get everything he's saying so i'm wondering if someone could tell me where I'm now as an English learner 😅
I know it's not even a question but you still can answer 😂
Seems pretty good. "Know" (sounds the same as no) should be "now" (rhymes with wow)
If I were to take the same format as the video, sure.
"he knows everything he's saying" while grammatically correct probably doesn't mean what you want. better would be "he knows a lot about everything he's saying"
after "guy" you need a period or some sort of conjunction if you want to combine the sentences.
You can't use 30% as a noun like that. You have to say "30% of it."
You cannot contract I am in that context. You can only contract it when the next word or phrase describes you like "I'm a nice guy" or "he knows I'm bad at this." So it should be "where I am."
know -> now (spelling is tuff)
Just like our guest, your English is pretty good, with the occasional mistake. You are completely understandable.
Small little bit of feedback, but for whatever reason, a native English speaker wouldn't really contract "I am" to "I'm" in the phrase "tell me where I am now as an English learner."
If you drop off the extra bits at the end, the basic phrase is "tell me where I am." And a native speaker would never contract that to "tell me where I'm."
On the other hand, if the phrase were something like "tell me where I'm going," or "tell me where I'm supposed to be," then a native speaker would almost always use the "I'm" contraction.
@@zachyboodles2673 😅😅😅😅
I already knew all of what you mentioned, it's just when I was writing this cmnt I didn't think of it as writing exercise (I write like I speak which means " guys , 30%....." Are not mistakes 😂 I just wanted to write them like that.
Know/now,It's not the first time it happened to me a lot even though I definitely knew the difference between them
Honestly if I read it before I posted it I would notice that.
I'm not sure about the first one i still think there's a difference between the two sentences
If you say "everything he's saying" doesn't mean a lot of what he's saying ( not for sure but the way I feel about the two expressions is different everything > a lot of if you know what i mean !
Come back to my question when i asked where am I now I meant in the whole process in other words how much time I still need to reach "fluency" if I keep immersing more than 4 hours a day active listening and reading for example.(now i understand more than 90% of matt's content )
@@tacofop600 thanks, i thought we can use them the same
I wouldn't even want someone to correct every little mistake I make; it'd get in the way of us having an actual conversation. Instead when I'm talking to my friends in a different language; I might ask them "what are the mistakes that I make the most often?", "what are the worst mistakes that I make?" or "what are the mistakes that I make that make me sound stupid?"
I work in Australia for a French company. At least half the people in the office have English as a second language. They all have excellent English - perfect use of grammar, perfect use of words, broad vocabulary and fluent speech,. They all still use Euro centric expressions, for example: today morning instead of this morning, yesterday night instead of last night as a native speaker would say. They're all aware of this and none of them are interested in adopting the local usage - they want to maintain the European usage. So, not everyone who has a second language is even interested in speaking like a native. No matter how long they live in Australia and speak English, they will NEVER lose their French, Spanish, German, Dutch, Portuguese accents. They understand and can be understood by native speakers. That is what matters.
For the longest time I thought Matt’s eyebrow was connected to his hair, so it freaked me out when it started moving.
Fantastic as always. As an English-nerd, I love doing this to people haha. I do it to native speakers in my head (don't tell them!)
"Her personality is shy" is not _grammatically_ incorrect as you said, but it is when you consider her meaning. I don't know the proper linguistic term for this but basically she is implying that the personality is a shy creature, like saying "My car is shy" or "my bear is shy".
When she said "opposite" I thought she had switched to Japanese to explain what she meant haha.
I noticed yesterday that Swedes, when expressing a past conditional, e.g. "I would have preferred to have gone..." they often just say "I had preferred to go..." which has the same grammatical meaning in Swedish as it does in English, but in that context MEANS "I would have preferred to have gone..."
Fun thing I've noticed is we Swedes tend to say "wery" instead of "very" and "are" instead of "is". I have no idea why "wery" is a thing, but "are" comes from both "is" and "are" being "är" in Swedish.
Swedes also say "it is many people"
@@Rimmer7 It's called hypercorrection. If you're accustomed to make the conversions vinter->winter, vi->we, var->where, et cetera, then it's easy to overextend the rule of "say w instead of v when speaking English".
@@Rimmer7 Hej Rimmer - Yeah, I think it probably comes from them being 'wary' (as in, careful) of not putting a V sound on all our W sounds, but then taking that too far. Call it 'overcorrecting'. The French sometimes do the same thing with "H"; they have learnt that many English words have a pronounced H like "hat", so they start saying "the haeroplane" and "habstract thinking" etc.
The 'are' vs 'is' thing is generally not just in standard sentences, you may have noticed. For example, they will say "He is coming later on." - Fine. But then when some complications get into the sentence, they will forget what the subject is and that it should be conjugated with "is", e.g. "That guy who learnt 15 languages are very good at all of them." - They are accidentally conjugating the "15 languages" with "to be" ('are') rather than the guy who learnt them, "is". PewdiePie still does this too, which backs up Matt's claim that some things actually need to be trained out no matter your level of experience.
Och sen så har vi den klassiska som du även har gjort just då... 'the fun thing' / 'the funny thing'.
😉 Men du har ju mycket bra engelska, mycket bättre än min svenska och det var därför jag inte skrev hela kommentaren på svenska (och för att det hade tagit fan långtid.)
Och förresten, jag menade att svenskar använder den konstuktionen när de pratar SVENSKA, inte engelska. Så jag vet inte om jag har rätt förstått hela grejen, men så vitt jag förstår kan man säga 'Jag hade istället ätit pizza...', men i engelskan skulle vi säga 'Jag skulle ha istället ätit pizza...'
Days of French 'n' Swedish "Därför att" should be "därför". "Därför att" would mean that the thing that came after is what caused the former, while in reality it's the other way around.
Thank you for the Grammarly keyboard which has helped me a lot in correcting my grammar.
Long time ago I gave up on articulating my speech, including speech grammar. In general my speech ability is weak, even in my native language I can not talk properly.
As long as you can order what you want at Starbucks and say "How are you" or "Hi" in whatever way is natural for your native language then you're probably fine.
I think that everything really depends on the goals of the learner and also on how the whole signaling mistakes thing is done (I haven't written "correcting mistakes" on purpose, see below). For me, a good way of making progress in a language would be to combine two elements: free oral practice (or something near that) and very nitpicky tutoring since the beginning.
With the first one, you could work mostly on your fluency and have a more relaxed conversation.
With the second one, you could get a way better grasp of how the language works (phonetics, grammar, intonation and so on). I think that the nitpicky tutoring is easier to be applied with beginners, because the teacher will help the learner with the building blocks of the language, step-by-step.
With this element, the teacher could signal (nearly) all your mistakes but it's up to you, the learner, to correct them. What I find fun about it is that, most of the time, the learners can get to the expected answer themselves with the right guiding from the teacher. Furthermore, this way, the learners will be much more conscient about their own mistakes (and hence more capable to correct themselves later on). I would like to give two concrete examples based on this video, supposing the conversation with the girl was a language class:
1) When she says "Her personality is shy", the tutor could say for example "your sentence is not wrong grammaticaly, but you can try to say it in a different (or more natural) way". If, with this hint, she's still not able to say something natural, the tutor could say "Try to make your sentence simpler" or even give other kinds of hints like 2 words + shy. Or giving her a fill-in-the-blank exercice : "___ ' ___ shy". You can also give "visual hints" with your hands to show her there are three words in the expected sentence. Three fingers wouls be up in this scenario - each one representing a different word - and, by putting your two first fingers together, you can show her that there's a contraction (she + is > she's). I'm sure she knows the structure "she's + adjectif". It's up to the tutor/guide/teacher to make her know that she can use it in this context. Maybe she will say another valid answer: it's obvious that the teacher should accept it... but it's also possible to show her other ways of saying what she wants to say.
2) If you, as a teacher, think that she said "berry" instead of "very" you can ask her to repeat what she just said to check if you heard it right in the first place. If she pronounces "berry" (or something not very clear) again, you can try to concentrate on this particular word. One of the many ways would be to tell her "oh, you've just said 'berry' - you can write the word at this moment - but I think you wanted to say another word". Maybe she will be able to correct herself. Maybe not. It could be just the case of an automatism - she knows how to pronounce the V sound, but she got used to pronounce the word "very" as "berry". If you know she knows how to pronounce properly other words with the V sound, take "victory" for example, you can guide her through the process of taking this V and replacing the B sound in "berry" to get where you want. The number of scenarios is pretty large and, again, it's up to the teacher to find a good way to make her get to the result... Not by giving her the answer, like lots of teachers do, but by giving her tools that will ALLOW HERSELF to get to the answer.
I'm aware that this method could be frustrating for a person who can already communicate quite well, like the girl in the video. But I still believe it's the best method if this person wants to speak like a "native speaker". And as I said above, it strongly depends on your goals. I prefer to concentrate on nitpicky tutoring and still I have lots of fun with my exchange language partners while doing it ^^ I see it as kind of a discovery process and also as a game at the same time :)
A lot of the things I said in my examples were inspired by some readings (and discussions with friends) about what Caleb Gattegno wrote on learning/teaching. I end my message by sharing with you a series of videos that I find super interesting about the Caleb Gattegno's approach :
th-cam.com/video/JlL_rcRY5cQ/w-d-xo.html
That's the problem i'm having right now: i'm studying Japanese at university as a first year student. First semester I was struggling, but managed to keep my grades pretty good, but now 2nd semester, corona hit.
As before: reading, writing, listening is a struggle (especially grammar), but I'm managing, but when it comes to speaking: now there's no teacher to correct any mistakes. It's not something you can really practice on your own, or even with other students for that matter, because I know that we don't know our stuff well enough, to correct eachother's mistakes.
I'm at my wit's end here. Speaking exam is coming up, the first saturday of June. It's depressing to think about.
Check out his "how to start outputting" video.
Hey Matt, just wanna say thank you for all the amazing videos and helpful material. Started MIA on Feb doing like hardcore RTK for 4 Months but here i am now comprehending like anime without subtitles like しろくまカフェ and 響けユーフォニアム. sure not all words . i probably understand only 30 to 40 % but i get the meaning without subs which i was never able before and to be honest also didn't believe in lol. so this method clearly works if you put daily effort in ^^ thx for creating such a great guide ^^
I feel like this isn't a problem for English speakers learning Japanese as much as it is for Japanese people studying English. When I was in Japan I was asked so many times to please correct every mistake. I felt like a broken record explaining why I wouldn't do that. It got so I was like, sorry, I hate correcting people and I hate it when they correct me too. I don't know how my saying that to them made them feel. I hope it didn't make them angry or hurt their feelings. I wish I could make Japanese people watch this video but it would need Japanese subtitles.
After graduation I took a summer job in Mexico, partially because I needed a job and partially because I wanted to improve my Spanish through immersion. There was an American family there whose teenage daughter was born had spent most of her life in Mexico, so she spoke both English and Spanish as a native. She would correct everything. It was very difficult to have a group conversation with her present because she would constantly derail people's train of thought with her corrections. It's frustrating talking to somebody knowing that whatever comes out of your mouth is going to picked apart for grammar and pronunciation to the point that the content of what you are trying to say falls by the wayside. It tapered off a little after a staff meeting about a month after she started. We had an American addressing the group, but she (as usual) wouldn't let him complete a single sentence without interrupting to tell him what he was doing wrong. Poor guy was being made to look like a complete idiot. Our supervisor finally stepped in and told her to stop that, she wasn't helping. Which was true. She even admitted afterward that they guy she was correcting spoke very good Spanish, it's just that he still had an accent.
When I speak to native Spanish speakers I know I'm making mistakes. When they speak English to me they do the same. I do the best I can and listen to them in order to pick up on the way the language is supposed to sound. An exception would be when one of us doesn't know a vocabulary word and describes it instead, then the other will fill in the blank. Or when one of us is unsure of a grammar rule and asks for clarification. For me it would be something like asking whether a verb I'm using should be conjugated as estuvieron or estaban. In turn, I would be asked something like should the word less or fewer be used.
I agree with nearly everything you said about how native English speakers (using your dialect) would say those phrases. Was pretty interesting watching as a native Brit. There were phrases that we would say differently haha 😅. I agree that most native speakers won't correct you. I teach music as a living and my instinct is to always correct the speaker but this is not realistic even as a Brit. I took your advice on learning from a non-native speaker for my German and it has made a massive difference. Thanks!
I moved to LA from Tokyo when I was 18 and I have one american friend who roasts me every time I make a mistake with my English. We've been friends for like 4 years now and I get roasted less today lol To be honest her roasting gets pretty harsh and painful sometimes but at the same time I'm actually quite thankful for her because surprising amount of people now tend to think I'm a native English speaker when we first talk.
edit: Cool video! Now reverse the roles haha
If the roles were reversed: *Matt uploads two hour monologue of Japanese*
Teacher: "Ummmm, well... look.. ah, I guess if we're being picky then he pronounced "begrudgingly" a bit off."
@@daysandwords wouldn't the reverse just be the videos kaz from 英語喉 made with his permission
@@daysandwords oho he has appeared
I have, unknowingly had tons of Input in Spanish before learning it, which is why I am able to "study" Spanish very quickly now. I may be studying for just over a week, but I have listened to Spanish music for two whole years.
Solid video bro thank you for making these 🤙
I'm not fluent in other languages but have known people wanting to learn English and you're right, out of not wanting to be rude there have been a lot of things I haven't corrected even though they've asked me to help them. I've told a Brazillian friend that he's missed a bunch of words or said them in the wrong order but not that he's pronounced certain things in a really unusual manner.
can we talk about how good matt looks here
Thanks...Excellent again..
Hey Matt, I’ve seen a lot of your videos and the MIA approach seems to make a lot of sense. The thing I stubble with is how to go from COMPLETE beginner to getting a lot of comprehensible input. Should I start with basic grammar/vocabulary and then have the input carry me from there? Just starting Korean, and I’m not sure exactly how to start.
In the very beginning it's not a bad idea to get a pre-made anki deck of the top 1000 most common words, or use a textbook. But after that you should start using native material to immerse imo.
Read the MIA website, if you haven‘t already
There's a subreddit for Korean MIA, look for us
Wolfe Mooney Why wait? Why not start immersing now?
CheetahGamer I’ve been doing a lot of immersing, but I have no clue what I’m hearing. The sounds are becoming more familiar, so that’s a plus
I have a frustrating experience. Not knowing where to begin or hitting a plateau can feel demoralizing and make it hard to hit the books and study like you know you should…Having friends from other cultures makes me more creative. In fresh ways about space and how people create their own world and environment. It is best way to connect between creative thinking and cross-cultural relationships😘🤗😁
Interesting video. As someone who speaks a different version of English, there were some points that I found natural, but they were only minor things. It made me think about my own language.
Awesome vid, Matt! I'm always trying to get people to understand that...
I thought this video was about how native speakers would be too polite to correct all of your errors. However, Matt made an even better point. Native speakers simply *CANNOT* correct all your errors. As a beginner, you could have more errors than there are words in a sentence. They might correct some obvious errors. Some problems with word choice are difficult for native speakers to even explain.
I get what you are trying to say, and you're not necessarily wrong. Ingrained mistakes are hard to fix.
But the message that I see most people getting out of this is one of misplaced relief:
"Whew! I don't have to ever get out of my comfort zone and speak. I can just sit in my room and listen to media all day."
If your goal is "Sound like a native" then yeah, maybe listening to it for a year before uttering a word is the way to go.
If you live in the country and actually want to use it for what it was meant for, ie. communicating with the people around you, then you need to suck it up and accept that you're going to make some mistakes. Fear of mistakes is a sure way to fail.
Once again: Is your goal communication, or perfection?
“Communication or perfection”? I don’t see why you feel the need to paint such a black and white narrative. You’re making a stawman out of my argument. It’s all a matter of degree; it’s not all or nothing. For many language learners, their new language will become a life-long companion. For those people, putting off speaking for 6 months to a year may be a small price to pay for a life time of improved language skills. If people aren’t yet living in the country and are not pressed to communicate in the language, I don’t see what’s wrong with optimizing their language learning path by delaying speaking practice. I also think it’s a bit condescending to assume that most people won’t have the self awareness to make use of the content of this video without abusing it to justify outright procrastination. It doesn’t make sense to say that people should “get out of their comfort zone” just for the sake of it, even when it’s not what’s the most efficient.
@@mattvsjapan I'm not seeing how it's a straw man.
I'm suggesting that the language you use when you present your argument paints a certain picture. Namely, that your method is the best and only method that makes sense.
It also could be interpreted as "one shouldn't even bother speaking." Though I know that's not what you are trying to say.
I'm then saying that I agree that ingrained mistakes are difficult, and I mostly agree with you.
Where I'm arguing care should be taken is that the language you use when explaining those things could easily be taken as an easy excuse to not bother speaking and I've seen more than a few of your followers argue just that. They think they will magically be able to speak by passively listening to content despite the fact that the majority of content they are most likely listening to doesn't sound anything like an actual day to day conversation with a real person.
I'm just here to have some healthy debate. I respect your level of Japanese. It's impressive. I question some of your followers fervency and tendency to attack other language learners who want to try different things, which may, without you noticing, be related to the polarizing language you tend to use.
So where is the straw man?
ToKini Andy I feel like you filter everything I say through the lens of some imagined AJATT elitist, and then respond to what you think that elitist would say. It’s honestly a bit frustrating, as I can’t control people misinterpreting what I say due to being influenced by AJATT and my less mature past self. No matter how nuanced I am in my expressions, those people will still hear nothing but justifications for what they already think. If you have a bone to pick with AJATT elitists, go debate them. If you want to debate me, please respond to what I’m actually saying, not potential misinterpretations of what I’m saying. I have a whole video talking about how I think some people in the community are overly scared to output, called “is early output a sin”. Like I said above, your comments also seem to paint black and white narratives. We should be talking about “how much to do/not do x”, not “should you do x all the time or never?”
@@mattvsjapan Fair. That is perhaps the lens I view it through. I am sorry for that. Perhaps because the material is so similar. I'm not sure.
But often, your tweets at least, are criticizing some other form of language learning, which opens the floor for debate in my opinion.
I'm sorry. I should should watch more of your content before jumping down your throat.
Yeah I agree I’m a Japanese learner myself (and also a English learner). I’m also taking French, but it seems to me that I can’t even handle the most basic scenes in French. Some of my friends are native English speakers, so I’ve got the chance to talk to English native speakers. Since I’m going to go to college in the US, I learned English really hard in the past like 3 years (now I’m a high school senior). I did nearly my entire coursework in English and watch like bio or chem related videos on TH-cam. However, if you ask me, I would say that I didn’t benefit a lot from chatting with native speakers. I did the language exchange thing and expected it to work well, but the fact is that most people get tired after maybe just 3 days of intense language learning. It’s unrealistic that they point out and correct every mistake you make and tell you why it shouldn’t have been said that way. It’s just impossible and ridiculous. Most of the time people are just looking for native speakers of his target language to chat with, and you simply appear to be one of them. And if the conversation is full of lectures little people would still be interested - not everyone is a language nerd. It seems to me that the best way of learning a language is to actively immerse yourself into that language regardless of where you live. I live in China, so no one really speaks either English or Japanese here. I’ve been to the US several times before but never really stayed there for more than a few weeks. Also I travel to japan really often, but that simply didn’t help much. Now I’m able to at least speak “seemingly correct” English (good enough considering the fact that my English was like shitty 3 years ago), and I think I benefited the most from listening to whatever I was able to find, looking words up in the dictionary, and take notes really often. Other ways of learning the language like talking to a native speaker would certainly help, but it’s not the best way for a beginner and is not even close.
(Also さちえ is cute haha
Thanks
I was looking for that Latina in the comments to say this: You can't change accent, if you're past the formative teenage years, and don't live in the country of the target language. Pronunciation yes, correct word order yes, accent no. It boggles my mind that almost everyone doesn't seem to understand this.
I love you, Matt
I think both Japanese people and English-speakers are pretty tolerant of accents and different language aptitudes, as long as you can get your meaning across
i think it's that japanese people learn english with their own pronunciation which makes it hard for them to really use the native dialect
Even with all of her mistakes, she is still able to convey 100% of her meaning and understand correctly. And that is the goal right?
Personally my goal is to sound like a native speaker, and enjoy all the benefits that come from that.
thats a universal thing. no native is going to point out every small mistake. cant ever expect your peers to be your tutors! lol. plus i knew everything she was saying even tho english is a stress language. if you want as close to fluency as possible you have to jus pick it up over time thru listening! its the strat im trying esp since its v hard for me to speak japanese at all in my day to day life
Honestly I wouldn't call her a decently high leveled English speaker. You can tell she was translating in her head.
Hey Matt, right now I am fluent in german and somehow in turkish and english aswell. I speak turkish to my parents and english to my boss. I have no problems understanding someone else in one of those languages, but if I have to talk in turkish to someone else except my parents, I always switch to german, because it's easier to express myself in that moment. Talking to my boss is hard too, as long as I am not in front of a group of people and doing a presentation. This doesn't make sense to me, because as I said I am talking to my parents in turkish without struggling. The sad thing is that I noticed that if I am speaking while I am drunk in english or turkish I am totally fluent. I am also used to have conversations for several hours in one of those languages without switching to german. I don't know when it happened, but in the last four or five years I started trying to express myself like I do in academic german (I worked for a local newspaper, study at the university and spend a lot of time with politicians).
Do you have any advices how I can get rid of this behavior?
lol I know youve put BBNG in the background before but I wasn't expecting sour soul, love that album
I agree with mostly what your saying (if I understand it right). What confuses me about your message is when you say "output" do you mean not talking at all, just to yourself, to close friends, strangers etc.? The main reason I say this, is that I practice talking to myself all the time to improve my pronunciation and it is awful unless I repeat it. It's like how K-pop trainees record themselves to watch back to see how they perform, I record myself speaking and listen back to compare how I sound saying these sentences I hear and I am awful until I practice more.
Thanks for the content as always, I love the thought provoking videos you provide.
He recommends you start talking once you get to a high level. Matt also recommends recording yourself speaking and listening it back to pick out mistakes, just like you said you were doing. But you can't notice the mistakes you are making if you aren't efficient at your target language. So, he recommend not outputting until you become efficient in the language.
How is "efficient" defined in this context as it makes no sense in my understanding of English? It's a word that literally means nothing unless it is defined. Efficient can mean talking from day 1 as you make the most of your effort vs time.
I don't really understand WHEN you should start outputting ... ?! I've been learning Japanese for more than 5 years (although I didn't know about Ajatt and Krashen until about a year ago), but I still make mistakes when I speak and there are still many things that sound unnatural. Have I been doing it wrong? I input a lot too.
I've been learning english for almost 20 years and i still make lots of grammar mistakes. Learning a language is a continuous process that NEVER ends... and it's impossible to speak 100% like a native speaker unless you're a genius like this guy lol
after 5 years you should probably start outputting if you want to. talking to people is pretty rewarding.
Not to mention regional differences. As a British English speaker, I would say that some of the things that you say, as an American English speaker, are incorrect, and would want to correct them so that a non-native speaker wouldn't make those same 'mistakes'.
Agree with all languages the key is fluency not accuracy(this comes later or depends what your goals are with the language)....its one of the reason Japanese english learners struggle to hold a conversation in English they are trying to text book perfect!.....which is a kinda of the opposite with Japanese learners thats more a story about the educational system.
I think the risk of making early output can be mitigated by google each section of your sentence with “exact match” condition. If there are little to no results, you at least know that your sentence is unnatural.
I'm Englsh and am now questioning how I speak, British English though... The only things that really stood out to me were 30 because I though she said 7, and opposite because I heard aboji, and of course and 2 years and a half. The inflections, I didn't really find an issue, and thought it was nitpicky, however if you were trying to sound like a native I suppose it makes sense. But that would depend on which English speaking country you were from, and even which region. It was interesting to watch though :)
Hey matt, digging your content. I started learning Japanese around 12 years ago, and went to a language school in Japan for 2 years from 2011 to 2013 and passed the N1. I have continued passvely studying ever since...I feel like my comprehension is really good but my output ability is meh still. I guess I'm just paranoid that if I were to go back to Japan right now, my speaking ability would really get me down. What do you think the best option for someone in my position is to improve? Luca style written translation practice? Shadowing?
Watch his "how to start outputting" video
"Native language thought" wait I thought we think in mentalese.
Same difference really. With explicit grammar rules, you are doing mentalese -> native language -> target language, when you should be doing mentalese -> target language directly.
In my opinion, immersion is the only way to learn. And direct translation is probably one of the worst ways to learn. Otherwise you’re going to be translating sentences from English to japanese (or any other language) that MAY work in English, but don’t make any sense in Japanese. Because in most languages you use a figure of speech or a popular expression in almost EVERY sentence without even realizing it. And every language has different figured of speech that don’t translate exactly as it’s said
Google翻訳にこの動画みせてやりたいな
Hey Matt, Amazing video. Thanks for sharing. I am a Spanish speaker learning English (bad phrasing? Maybe) and I've been doing a lot of input for about 4 years now. It was recommended to me to read aloud to improve my pronunciation but I worry I may end up building bad habits that way cuz my instinct is still not good enough to catch all the pronunciation hiccups? and I would say.. the stressing isn't perfect yet. Should I stop the whole thing and go back to input mode or is it possible for me to start outputting that way trying to be as aware as I can be. Thanks again for the content. It is highly appreciated.
Matt has a video on starting output. You should check that out!
He has interesting advice about output. I will add my advice, since I'm a professional english instructor. Reading out loud is overrated. Shadowing would be better. Reading aloud is am entirely separate skill from just speaking a language. For example, unless someone is a trained actor, i can tell from a recording whether they're reading text or speaking normally. So if your goal is to produce natural stress and intonation patterns, skip reading texts out loud. Try shadowing people. And if you want to test your pronunciation of some text for which you don't have audio, you should say the sentences from memory. You don't need to memorize it, but you should read a sentence (silently), look away from the text, and then repeat the sentence from memory. This will remove the artificial pronunciation that comes from readinf text directly.
In either case, if you aren't recording yourself and analyzing your own performance, you're wasting your time.
Dogen's channel has brought up the phonetic dictionary of words a couple times now. Would you say that this rule set is almost always used, or is it purely situation-by-situation based as suggested in the video?
My native language isn't English but I didn't understand at all when she said "she just turn 30"
it was pretty hard to understand for me too. and english speakers are used to all sorts of alien accents under the sun, unlike other languages out there. I think its important to learn IPA for this reason, something that is overlooked. Not mentioned once in this video either.
@@ovrskr agree, but according to an interview Matt made, he's not fan of the IPA, but I think is useful, obviously you have to immerse a lot but is good to be aware of the sounds and the IPA, personally I've used it in English when I'm not sure how to pronounce a word and recently I've used with the nasal vowels in French
@@ovrskr Even if you have the same sound in the IPA for two different languages, the subtle difference may be still there. Maybe your tongue needs to be a bit higher/lower etc... There is just not an objective way to really tell how one should pronounce words and phrases. That's why you need to really be able to hear those things.
I'm happy to see that I was right to hear that my intuition was right in how I should learn Japanese, it made me more determined. I am currently working on my own theory of how to optimally learn a language, but I work on a lot of different ideas generally and my discipline is subpar so it's still in the early stages, I want to check the MIA method out to see your idea of it and yours will be naturally more developed because of your experience and dedication, it seems like we have some similar ideas so I look forward to see how much I got right. If I have some ideas you haven't touched I would be happy to give some suggestions if you are willing to hear them. I really think it would be wonderful if learning languages was made easier. Keep up the good work, you are doing important work.
Sir, you are the best !
Bro if someone did this to my english I would cry haha
yeah there are a lot of tips and advices to improve the knowledge of a language learner, but STILL and the most important effort you can make is be exposed by the language as possible as you can, thousand of hours listening to it, by that ,Certainly it’ll get you a higher level in the language
How is this guy so smart
Is that Badbadnotgood I hear as background music...?
Great video as always Matt and I definitely agree about corrections. (Think I need to take a step back from online lessons for now) Question.. I was on the MIA site and noticed every overview after stage 2 is gone. Will you be uploading the individual pages again?
I guess I am different cuz when I teach someone I make sure to correct every little mistake they make.
You must only talk to extremely high-level language learners then. Otherwise, it's simply not possible that you're actually correct all of their mistakes.
The first thing that caught me about this video was the BGM. I recognised it immediately from a song by GhostfaceKilla. Good choice!
Hey should start a TH-cam channel in Japanese.. that would be great
I met my Japanese wife when she made a trip to New Zealand. Maybe this person's sister?
I'm from Nyuujiirando. 🤣 So true about trying to transfer/translate your native language to foreign language incorrectly. Countless times I've made that mistake and my gf says いいえいいえ、それは言えないじゃん！笑
Thanks 😊
japanese never do this cruelty.....this guy is very crazy I feel.
lol I just watched the first minute and 30 seconds, and it already seems wayyy too petty. When I heard what she said I thought ''I didn't notice any mistakes''. We don't pronounce the ''r'' in UK English either, so the way she said turned 30 was just fine to me.
What do you recommend for reading if there aren't a lot of books in my TL. The news?
If you can find comics or something that has lots of pictures, that’s always the best. The news is good too but can be too high level sometimes if you’re a beginner/low intermediate
Sometimes when I talk to native speakers, I notice plenty of mistakes, but it feels kind of rude to correct all of them. I’m kind of scared to correct all the mistakes because I don’t want to lose my friendship with these people. Matt, what are your thoughts?
In general, I think it's best to separate friendship and language learning. It's ok to correct/ask for corrections every now and again, but it's important to have boundaries. The friendship should always be prioritized over language learning.
As long as you aren't annoying when you make the corrections...then I can safely say most people will gladly accept the corrections you give them. In my opinion it will be annoying when you try to correct every little mistake that person makes....
If the mistakes are in grammar or word order, or word enunciation correct them. If the mistake is in accent, don't correct. Lol you think you're better than them the way you said ''I don't want to be rude''.
ok
Maybe this is a high request, but would you mind compiling playlists of full-Japanese TH-cam videos that you would recommend for those learning Japanese to watch for immersion purposes? A big part of the immersion thing for me is that I have a hard time finding good sources to immerse in. TH-cam is something I’d like to immerse in, but I can’t efficiently search Japanese TH-cam because I don’t know enough of the language yet.
What videos I would recommend would totally depend on the specific interests of the person. So, I can't really make that sort of generic list.
@@mattvsjapan That's a fair response. Thanks for the reply! I'll try my best to find some Japanese TH-camrs that interest me. Trying to buckle down on my practices this time around.
I have a different point of view of what constitutes an error. I don’t consider pronunciation or intonation mistakes to be errors. To me, using incorrect grammar, vocabulary and sentence structure are errors. As long as native speakers don’t have to strain to understand me, I could care less about having an accent or imperfect intonation.
I agree
English natives often do, so I'm guessing it has less to do with the cultural but...
I don't know how long I've been learning English now, probably 10 years or more but I don't learn English seriously tho. I learn English by watching English languaged videos, reading manga/manhwa/manhua that english translated, changing applications language to english, but I can't speak English well I'm barely understands
After watching this, I will never upload a video of me speaking my broken English ahahahha
Reminds me of Kaz's nitpicking videos
2:50 whats the difference betweensaying: "de opposite" or "di opposite" ? I think I always say "di"
Does anyone here know why the kanji in the RRTK deck are all showing with the same font? When learning a kanji, it appears 4 times in the front card but all 4 are the same font and i don't know how to fix it
Very cool
So strict 😅
I love you Matt but I thought some of your corrections were extremely nitpicky. For example...
1.) When she says, "When I was 14". That sounded ok to my ear. 2.) the "very" you pointed out was barely audible. I literally had to replay the clip a couple of times to hear what you heard and I had to concentrate to pick that up. While the New Zeland part was off, I think it was passable. I have met many fluent English pronounce some specific words strangely but they otherwise speak very well
I'm not so sure, I honestly couldn't even tell she said New Zeland there. I think that the things he said weren't necessarily very nitpicky. They are things that someone who is fluent in the language and used to speaking with others who are also are fluent will pick up as strange.
qbittorrent on taskbar...
You speak a West Coast US dialect, man I speak with a Chicago (CHICAWGOH) dialect lol.
‘Opposite to me’ sounds equally correct to me as ‘opposite of me’....
Opposite to me would be used in a directional sense. The table opposite to you.
Opposite of is better when it comes to contrasting two things
Are you British? Remember, he is coming from a west-coast American pov
@@Iteachu2beninja I feel like many native English speak would make that ''mistake''.
How does the MIA view furigana? Is it more detrimental than it is helpful
There are certain phrases in your native language that mean the same thing if you translate it. It's just a hassle to explain the nuances and it might not even exist in their culture.