I'm pretty sure Ned would've avoided many executions cause nights watch was always an option. They can be executed if they desert the wall and most would probably stick it out to live longer.
Probably one of the more interesting what ifs i think Warlord. Could imagine the WW would be fucked with Ned on the throne since him and Mannis would actually take the threat seriously. Thanks for watching as always matey! Liam
@TheFandomeClips on top of that he would also have Robb as his heir who would be leading men too and we all know Robbs pedigree as a warleader. Add in Stannis and Randyl and you have 3 exceptional war commanders under ned when The Others come all the while Jon Arryn manages the realm while Ned goes to north. Jon Snows place/role in this world would be interesting as in the book he is actually a shrewd and able leader of men.
@@twztdned Yeah, I loved that - they're so detached from Westerosi politics they're barely more a part of it than the Wildlings and have literally not a single crap to give about who's in charge or what the noble houses are doing as long as they don't come to their lands, but they'll march to war in a moment for someone purely on the basis that they came out of Ned's valyrian steel balls and need help.
They call him “The Ned” because of how their own society is structured. The leaders of the clans are just “The” and then their clan name, so “The Flint” or “The Norrey”
No i love ned but he wouldn’t have been the ideal ruler the seven kingdoms needed first off we have seen him play the game and honestly he sucks like sure he’s a pure man but a bad player so there’s a chance that he would be fooled or taken advantage of by the likes of tywin and little finger and his insistence on doing the right thing could cause him to make a lot of enemies also his mercy could be seen as a weakness add to the fact that he worships the old gods unlike most of westeros and people thinking he’s a usurper However I’m not saying he’s a bad ruler not at all he’ll still be one of the best kings in westeros it’s just that his short comings prevent him from being compared to the likes of jaehaerys
@@iisomeoneii2091 If your starting point is being the King then you don't have to play the game in the same way everyone else does. Just look at Visery's in HoTD, he was arguably a much worse player than Ned but was never deposed. Also Ned isn't merciful, he's just. If someone is caught plotting against him he'll behead them himself for treason.
@@iisomeoneii2091You don't need to play the game when you're already king and have the backing of at least 4 of the seven kingdoms (the North, the Riverlands, the Vale and the Stormlands). And he wouldn't seem weak, since his first act as king would probably be to execute the mountain and either send Jaime to the wall or outright execute him.
No doubt Lvbo! I I honestly think both Dany and the WW would have been so screwed if Ned had sat the throne instead of Robert. Thanks for watching! Liam
Ned as King could have also fostered a better relationship with Dorne, since he would have likely given them Tywin and The Mountain for what they did to Elia and her children.
@@thedrinkinggamemaker9749 Ned would have the armies of the North, Vale, Riverlands, Crownlands & Dorne. It'd be up in the air if the Stormlands join him and the Reach would likely join in return for land. Tywin would honestly die if Ned promised if his family would survive, Ned would've expelled Jamie from the king's guard so his line was secured to his knowledge and Kevin would've helped
@@danekoetter6067 Exactly. Ned Stark knew how to NEGOTIATE, which is something that the other four characters on this list were... a bit lacking, in quality.
Ye stannis is a good commander but nothing more. Hes a good militarry man good for leading an army. Totaly incompetent when it come to everything else tho and there for not good as a king or anyother position other then field marshal
@@AoC_oOKingOo I feel like Stannis would be Aegon V reborn, going off book material (since d&d committed murder and I will never forgive them). He is a just man at heart, which would have won him a lot of support from the smallfolk - he would never tolerate an abusive lord, and in his own words, would make "new lords" in their place (implying he would be wiling to tear down ancient noble houses for the sake of justice).
I imagine for Ned’s small council, he’d want to diversify it somewhat rather than just having exclusively Northerners, with that in mind here’s what I think he might go with, assuming this is after Jon Arryn’s death (feel free to dispute any of these) Grand Maester: Luwin Master of Laws: Edmure Tully or Yohn Royce Master of Ships: Wendel Manderly Master of Coin: Willas Tyrell Master of Whisperers: None (maybe Roose Bolton if I had to pick one, but I think it’s unlikely Ned would employ a MoW) Lord Commander of KG: Barristan Selmy Hand of the King: Stannis Baratheon
@arcticmoon1429 Def not Edmure, and Citadel picks their own Grand Maester. Lord Wyman makes sense as master of coin. Stannis as ships. Ned had massive respect for Selmy. Laws maybe Yohn Royce? The Starks relationship w the Royces is usually forgotten about.
@arcticmoon1429 I think not having a Master of Whisperers would be a fatal mistake. Ned isn't good at playing the game, so he should have someone who is. Varys would be a really good choice, imo. Do you remember the scene with Varys and Ned in the dungeons? Varys has always wanted to serve the realm, and that would be very valuable for Ned.
I feel like Hugo Wull's quote speaks volumes about just what kind of king Ned would be, "I would rather my men die fighting for The Ned's little girl."
In some fanfic that I've read, when Robert succumbed to his wounds in the Trident , Ned was named King because the high lords didn't want one another to be king.
Honestly that's kinda realistic, Stannis might have reservations but I could see him agree. Jon Arryn would be all for it. Hoster Tulley would happily have his son-in-law be king. Tywin would probably be ok if it meant Jamie was removed from the Kingsguard with honors and Benjen married Cersi.
Duties come in different forms. I think Jaime says it best when he talks about oaths and how its impossible fulfil every single one without breaking an other. What do you do when your duty to the realm requires you to forsake your duty to your family? Rhaegar had to make a choice. Thanks for watching Dario! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips But he broke his duty to the realm, didn't he? A prophecy is no excuse for that essepcially because he had no idea if said prophecy was real and/or ment for him. Even if it was Lyana was 14 at that time and in no position to elope with anyone. He was the catatalyst for all the bad things this happened afterwards and him sitting around in Dorne doing nothing while the realm burned doesn't scream dutyful either.
@@3esln Exactly he showed zero good political judgement. His dad was literal powder keg looking to blow. He pissed off two of the five most powerful families in the country and was hiding out when they came to say how pissed they were.
@@TheFandomeClips I agree that Rhaegar was Definitely was put in a rock and a hard spot when it came to sticking with his family or saving the entire realm. But where I do have a problem is whoever came up with the plan to get Lyanna was an idiot. Now we don’t know what the plan was originally, but there is no way anyone in their right mind thought that having her disappear with the crown prints out of nowhere was a good idea. Again, we don’t know who came up with the plan so it’s pretty hard to judge it completely but we sure know the consequences of how it went down. The best plan I can think of to not absolutely set off Brandon Stark, which is what seemed to be the biggest problem was to send Ashara Dayne and one or two other noble ladies from the Crown princes faction and a escort that was not flying red dragons, to invite her to spend some time with them at a castle, most likely one of their homes even, even more likely Starfall. That would’ve fixed the biggest problem that everyone had. And that was the rumors of kidnapping or just dirty rumors in general. There’s no doubt in my mind that Brandon would’ve been mad if she had left without his permission, but it would not have set him off anywhere near as bad as with the crown prince, especially after the tournament at Harrenhall. Rhaegar gets his prophecy baby mama and Lyanna gets away from Robert they don’t have to live in a tower hiding because as long as the crown prince doesn’t make the fact that he’s heading to Dorne completely obvious no one should know that they are within a kingdoms distance of each other. Another TH-camr theorized that the entire time they were hiding away at the tower of Joy, a whole bunch of negotiations were going down. Doing it this way allows for the negotiations to be done a lot more effectively. It keeps all parties involved, except for maybe the north until the final reveal is made happy. And even the north wouldn’t be that put out if what people say about Rickard Stark and his southern ambition are true having a daughter as queen he’s a pretty good deal. Guess what I’m saying and asking is who the hell came up with the idea for the Crown prince who just blew up his entire political and social capital at the previously mentioned tournament. Should go and escort or kidnap, depending on what you believe the same person who was the reason behind blowing up his entire position. And it’s not like he went alone he went with arguably the most recognizable warrior in the seven kingdoms as well. Were they trying to alert the entirety of Worldos to what was going on.
I feel like Tywin and Edmure are polar opposites in a certain regard; The Small Council. Tywin would have had the Small Council as more of a formality used to provide information before doing what he wanted, wheras Edmure NEEDS the Council to temper his compassion, provided by he doesn't fill it with sycophants. If he puts say, the Blackfish, on the council, he'd have people who aren't afraid to disagree with him and help him make the hard decisions.
I think that's the key with Edmure. He needs folks like Blackfish by his side to give a push now and then when he needs it. Tywin needs no one but people who will shut up and do what he says 😂 Thanks for watching my good coffee filled black bird! Liam
If you follow the books you are overlooking the BIGGEST problem with Stannis is that he abandoned his brother and just waited for the Lannisters to kill Robert before pressing a claim. Ned's letter revealing Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen's parentage was intercepted and Stannis never received it yet he still acted like he had which meant he knew long beforehand and saw it as an opportunity to sit the Iron Throne instead of kneeling to any children Robert may have should he remarry. He left King's Landing almost immediately after Jon Arryn's death and just quietly prepared for war without a fucking word to either of his brothers. Readers don't tend to notice it because few POV characters have all the pieces to figure it out themselves and those that do are too blindly loyal to Stannis to care meaning he got away with it and will likely never face any fallout for it.
He also never attempted ANY negotiations with Renly when they met at Storms end, like having him be the heir given how Stannis only has a sickly and disfigured daughter and is seaminglly infertile.
Ned's biggest flaw is not believing people when they tell him exactly who they are. Little Finger is a more literal example, but characters like Cersei show who they are, and he still warns her. If he's worried about the children, there are probably other ways to protect them (kidnapping, lmao). It would be interesting to see him spend more time in Kings Landing to see how his mindset would evolve.
Walter White as King Jesse Pinkman Hand of the King Hank Schrader as Master of Laws Saul Goodman as Master of Coin Gus Fring as Master of Whispers Lalo Salamanca as Master of Ships Mike Ehrmantraut as Lord Commander of the Kinsguard
Great picks, and it's nice someone finally gave Edmure a fair shake. As for me, I'd say an argument could be made that Ser Davos would be a good choice for king. Sure, he might not be an expert in actual administration or things like that, but that's where a good small council can come in. He's brave (as shown by his willingness to evade the Tyrell blockade in the rebellion), his background of having come from nothing guarantees that he'll be sympathetic to the problems of the smallfolk, and we've seen time and again that he's got a fair share of wisdom to him. He's no highborn or experienced battle commander like your choices, but I for one would not be unhappy in the slightest at having that good old fellow as my ruler 😊
Gotta agree, Ned would have been a blessing! Hard to pick a proper concil for him though.. my suggestions would be Grand Maester... Maester Luwin (easy choice) Hand of the King... Stannis Baratheon (if he would accept) Lord Commander of the Kingsguard... Barristan Selmy (Another easy choice) Master of War... Randyll Tarly (Making peace with former enemies and he would be more disciplined than Robert) Master of Ships... Paxter Redwyne (Helped against the Greyjoy Rebellion) Master of Coin... Willas Tyrell? (Actually the hardest one to pick, def much more competent than his father) Master of Whispers... Doran Martell (he is certainly good at scheming, I think he would be loyal if you give him the head of Gregor and put Tywin in a prison) Master of Laws... Renly Baratheon (why not just keep him?)
The show really did Edmure dirty (far from the only character to get that treatment, and certainly not the worst case), but I liked book Edmure. He was by far my favorite Tully, and seems to be the only one of the siblings that doesn't ultimately take the 'family, duty, honor' motto in a twisted way. I don't know if he'd be a great king, but he does have potential. As far as the show goes.... the only thing about Show!Edmure I like is his actor, who always kills it, even when he only gets like five total minutes of screen time.
Defo think he would be he’s honest and kind and dose what’s right. He would hold the kingdom together with loyalty and men fight for those that they admire and treat them right. I think Ned would do the best job and would have stan the man as his hand and don’t think he would have rob anywhere near the politics he would have him as a general.
With Stannis as his hand they'd be unstoppable. They'd be no need to fight the WW because they'd have the good sense to stay on the other side of the wall with those two in charge 😂 Thanks for watching as always matey! Liam
Ned Stark would be a very good king, but too good. I believe Stannis would be a perfect king with Ned Stark at his side as Hand of the King. Stannis is fair, feared, and knows that it is often necessary to take actions that others may disagree with. In the books even Tywin knows Stannis is extremely strong and a man to be feared. Ned, on the other hand, has empathy and his empathy could be a weak point. Still, Ned Stark is intelligent and a man of honor. Stannis and Ned would bring prosperity to the Seven Kingdoms if they were both together in King's Landing working together.
@3:57 Although given that that was the Crown Prince and his good friend that Ser Arthur was jousting against, jury's out if Ser Arthur was trying his utmost to win. Similar argument can be made for Ser Barristan. Rhaegar definitely beat Brandon fair and square though, which is impressive considering that Brandon was a skilled horserider (Barbrey Dustin describes him and Lyanna as "a pair of centaurs,") and jousting is stated to be 90% horsemanship
I think he would have been similar to Daeron II as king. Reasonable, logical and correcting many of the excesses, but surrounded by schemers. He might have had to fight off a rebellion or two, but would have done a lot better than Robert for example. Imagine if Ned found a way to work together with Tywin, as his Hand. I think that would be a stunning duo
I think so too my lord! Quite a funny thing to imagine in fairness, I could see them bickering over matters of justice like an old married couple lol 😆 Thanks for watching my lord! Liam
Tywin is too evil and dishonorable in King Eddard’s eyes. Given what happened to Elia and her children, Ned would probably tell him to take the black or he will take his head. Same goes with Jaimie, take the black or he will take his head. Ned is a kind man, but extremely stoic and judgmental.
For Jon Maester Aemon as grand maester Sam Tarly as master of coin (and kinda his hand as he’d still seek his advice but you forget how smart Tarly is with books and ledgers in the book) Arthur Dayne as lord commander (Show) Varys as his master of whispers (f Branns magic) (Redeemed) Theon as his master of ships (Old) Barristan the bold as his hand Randel Tarly as his master of laws (he is in the books I think)
For Ned as king and this is all assuming the rebellion plays out the exact same way with the difference being Ned ascends the throne instead of Bobby B: 1. Hand- Jon Arryn(if alive at the time Ned is crowned), and I would suggest Howland Reed, due to the connections they had from youth and Howlands help at the tower of joy,if Jon Arryn for whatever reason can't/won't take the position 2. Grand Maester- Pycelle, because Ned at least from what I know of the show and books truly trusted Pycelle due to his many years of service. If he was to replace Pycelle then I expect he would accept almost any grand maester from the Citadel that offers their service. 3. Master of Coin- Petr Baelish. Due to Ned mostly keeping his attention in the North I don't truly know how deep his knowledge of wealth and merchants is. And he did actually trust Littlefinger with the crowns finances as far as I'm aware, so I imagine he would stay in his position but with some oversight by Ned to avoid any dishonorable practices. He could potentially ask Tywin to take the position as a way to maintain a connection without having to marry Cersei. However the mess in Kings Landing after Ned returned from the Battle of the Trident would need one hell of an explanation from Tywin. 4. Master of Laws- Stannis Baratheon. Is there any other person who you want writing the laws for your lands. High born or low born the law is applied evenly to everyone with no exceptions. And as king Ned can temper Stannis when making laws to allow for some leeway in certain situations (I.e. stealing food to feed your family). 5. Master of Ships- Baelon Greyjoy. Now hear me out, I think this would be a wise decision because the Iron Fleet is touted as the strongest naval power in Westeros, and having them on your side is better than having to fight against them. This could also serve as a potential truce agreement between Ned and Baelon with the promise of regular trade of foods and wears, so long as the Ironborn agree to stop raiding the mainland because no way does Ned allow that to continue. While also keeping Baelon close by in case he starts planning treason against the Crown. 6. Master of Whisperers- Varys. I'm honestly not sure if this position would even exist on a small council for Eddard Stark, but if it does still exist it's possible Lord Varys could be allowed to continue in that capacity if he explains his intentions to Ned about serving the everyday people of Westeros or as Varys says "the realm". I don't know anyone else who could have this position since Ned clearly despises the practice of spying seeing it as unhonourable. 7. Lord Commander of the Kings Guard- Barristan Selmy. Ned holds honour as one of his highest virtues and Barristan the Bold is the embodiment of honour in many eyes of Westeros including Ned. I believe this is the second most obvious choice for a position on the small council period. 8. Master of War- Robert Baratheon. Obviously. Who else would it be? That's my list let me know if you liked it or not, and don't forget to leave your suggestions in the replies down below.
Another damn good list. I wonder if Tywin was king and Jaime inherited the throne how would things play out? By the end of his journey in the books or part way through the show he’s definitely flawed but I think Jaime might actually not do as bad of a job as some people think. But he definitely had the potential to go a bit nuts.
Oh definitely, Its suspected Rhaegar was aware of the impending conflict and the tourney at Harrenhal was actually him trying to rally the Lords to get his father off the throne before it happened and keep the peace.
@@TheFandomeClips Right I believe that theory, just wish rhaegar had a better well thought out plan. But yeah him kidnapping lyana was just the last straw. I always hated how bran In season 7 "said Robert rebellion was built on a lie "
He'd need to gut, purge and then give the Red keep a round of bleach just to be safe when it came to his council thats for sure. Thanks for watching! Liam
If I recall Tywin used to smile back then, I can definitely see where your coming from. I would rule Ned out though, the North is a brutal place and he did just dandy ruling it. If he could pick his council and oust the current snakes im sure he'd keep those knives out of his back. Thanks for watching 7dragons! Liam
I think Oberyn Martell would have been fantastic. He cares about Justice, it's not just his sister and her children he cared about. He also didn't hurt Myrcella, saying they don't hurt little girls. He's a scholar, having learned academic matters at the citadel. He's an able combatant, having forged a reputation as a fighter. He's charismatic and attractive - and attractiveness does help. He mixes with the common folk as well as the nobility.
Jon Arryn as hand. Wyman Manderly as master of ships. Barristan the Bold as leader of the king's guard. And then we're scraping the barrel for good candidates honestly
For Ned's Small Council (I'm going to be doing this based off chars alive at the start of Book 1) I'd do the following - Hand of the King - Stannis Baratheon [Has the disposition of both a leader and follower, will be absolutely loyal if he makes that oath, and will certainly not be afraid to voice his opinions and counsel to Ned, as well as having a mindset not like a Northman to see angles Ned couldn't] Master of Coin - Wyman Manderly [Greed is a tempting sort, and you need someone who can manage large sums of finance without attempting to embezzle or screw their lordship over. Wyman is absolutely loyal to the Starks, and runs one of the biggest trading hubs of Westeros (even if it is the smallest of the five)] Master of Laws - Brynden Tully [Once again, a loyal man and forthright man who is unafraid of ruffling feathers. He has the Tully compassion, but also can be as hardassed as Stannis when it counts (this is why he beats out Edmure for me), plus he can still absolutely fight to bring the King's Justice on his own merit to lead knights in Ned's name.]
Master of Whispers - Doran Martell [THE BOOK VERSION. Doran is smart, quick-witting, and willing to be patient. He can play the Game quite handedly as well, and is doing his best to play subterfuge at current. He is also a DECENT PERSON who has not shown as of yet capacity for betrayal or self-serving (Littlefinger, Vaerys) while playing behind the scenes. Plus this will also give Dorne a proper seat at the table.] Master of Ships - Asha Greyjoy [This position was also thrown up between Stannismannis or Manderly, but Asha is an interesting choice, considering she actually, in both versions, wants to make the Ironborn play nice with the mainlanders. Plus, this will help cement some capitulation from the Ironsworn, so not everyone is going to set to reaving the second Euron shows up.] Lord Commander - Barristan Selmy [Needs no explanation.] Grand Maester - Samwell Tarly [A bloody genius and loyal man to a fault, Samwell would have to be taken from the Watch, but that's acceptable to have someone who both knows of the White Walkers and can help Ned prepare for them...plus in the show he CURES JORAH OF GREYSCALE.]
Id change asha greyjoy for lord jason malister of seagard and gormon tyrell or luwin for grandmaester this council would actually turn westeros into a united realm dopw
Ned would’ve been a great king if he inherited a peaceful realm he would’ve been very just and peaceful. If Ned inherited in times of war he would’ve been a troubled king the exact things that would’ve made him good in times of peace would’ve made him awful in times of war, he was too honorable he didn’t think about politics in the way most do he had no stomach for schemes and assumed everyone would do exactly as he would do.
@@thepunisher6674 I don’t know about that. There is no evidence that he is uncomfortable using clever tactics in warfare. And he is certainly plenty capable of being a good general. I think Ned would be a much better king in times of war. Plus his reputation as honourable and just would be a real asset to getting the people on his side. And that frankly is a bigger book than anyone can imagine. His only real weakness is that he worships the old gods. Oh he would be tolerant (Cat had a sept built for her after all) but he would probably get a side eye from many people in the realm. However give him a proper external enemy to smash like a Greyjoy rebellion and he is likely to skyrocket in respect. Win a war as King and people tend to not want to mess with you a lot.
@@neodigremo I’m not saying he’s not a good general but he doesn’t have the political expirence to make Allie’s effectively, he never betrothed any of his children to any house or even promised them to anyone while he did marry Catlyn it was because it was his duty, he doesn’t make Allie’s effectively and unlike Robert people don’t forgive him as easily even people who fought against Robert grow to like him, plus he would be terrible in a coup and he would be more interested in honor than pragmatism if one of the lords who supported him did something bad he would punish them even if it meant the kingdom would slip into war. He had the chance to prevent the war of the five kings and Dave hundreds of thousands of lives but he didn’t because of his northern honor.
@@thepunisher6674 Lets not forget on the betrothal front that his oldest was only 14 years old, and the next (Sansa) maybe 12 and not even having had her period yet. I know nobles in the GOT betroth and marry young if needed but it is not unusual in this regards. Especially as Robb is his heir and so his marriage is not one to rush into. He does not need to make an alliance as of yet and so it is no bother to take his time. My knowledge of betrothals in the GOT verse is that they are not usually committed to until the child is about 15 at the earliest. Some outliers exist but it is not unusual for it to happen even later. Put simply, he has no reason to rush and can happily take his time. Until Bobby shows up he has no pressure to make allies. He did pursue a somewhat isolationist course as Lord of Winterfell but he kept the kingdom in check, reasonably prosperous it seemed and overall well ordered. And the love his subjects has for him (even powerful lordly ones) speaks volumes for how well he did here. As for preventing the war, one could argue he should not have warned Cersei that he knew. That would have been a smart play and I think his only real mistake. Everything else was simply a matter of the deck having been stacked against him so high, years before he showed up, that he had no way to overcome it. The Boar was an unpredictable bit of bad timing though as there was no way Cersei could have arranged it at the time of the warning, and with the actual King as an ally there would be almost no risk at all. It was a calculated mercy that backfired due to bad luck, worse timing, and the Lannisters having supremely thick plot armour in the early books. Littlefinger's betrayal? Ned trusted him due to his wife's word, however he could not predict the betrayal so easily. In hindsight it is obvious but before then the self serving nature of the Lord of Grooming was not clear. It was a calculated risk and had Baelish not wanted Cat for himself it might have gone the other way. Supporting Renly? A terrible idea and one that made little sense even then as Renly's small guard could not overcome the goldcloaks alone. Plus it would be super double stupid illegal and make an enemy of the most dogged opponent you could ever expect. Hold the King hostage? As soon as Cersei gets it out (and with the GM on her side it is getting out) Tywin now declares war on the capitol in the name of his Grandson the "King" and the war happens anyways, except not Tywin is ravaging the Crownlands instead. Renly still does his epic fail, Stannis his stuff and Robbs army is still on it's way. If Ned lives long enough to tell his Son and Lords to support the rightful King then that could tip the balance but there is still the issue of Renly "I should be king because trust me bro and don't I look cool with a crown" Baratheon, first of his name, King of being a useless piece of dog turd. So the war still happens anyway, just with slightly reorganised teams. In short, I don't think Ned did much wrong as hand. And with the power of the throne, the Lords Paramount of 3 of the other kingdoms behind him due to marriage or friendship (Riverlands, Vale and Stormlands) plus Benjen probably taking Winterfell and a sterling reputation that should lead to a massive swell of support from the common people when he ascends after the Targs fall.... well I think he is in a very strong position here.
Yeah in the books Edmure said to keep him a captive and Robb knew that was a good idea, but Robb said Rickard Karstark killed his honor which is why he executed him
One thing i think does get talked about enough is in the book Ned fully understands his weaknesses and actively tries to change the game to something he can win. He can't do intrigue so he was essentially planning to start a war - which he could win. The issue was Cat ignored his orders by arresting Tyrion and not going to the north to make the defensive arrangements he asked her to do. Forcing him to send out loyal men to arrest the mountain. So as king he might have had a better chance of dealing with court
Ned would have had Jon Arryn as Hand, Robert as War/an advisor, Tywin as Coin, Pycelle as Grand Maester because he’s already in that position, Renly as Laws, Stannis as Ships, Varys as Whispers because he was already there.
Honorable mentions to Renly Baratheon and Tyrion Lannister. If you didn't mean literally "king" then pre-jumping-the-shark Daenerys Targaryen or Margaery Tyrell would have been great. But yeah, Eddard Stark was kinda the clear choice.
I think Renly should have made the list. He was a good diplomat (he got the Reach on his side with the biggest army), he was loved by his people, and his empathy (see Brienne) inspired incredible loyalty. His big negative was probably laziness. He assembles the biggest army in Westeros and just hangs around feasting and doing tournaments and hoping his enemies would destroy each other instead of just marching to Kings landing and capturing it.
13:06 I don't think Stannis would cut fingers for every stolen loaf of bred. Davos had to pay for a lifetime of smuggling. The main problem would be that Stannis would outlaw brothels, wine sinks, gambling and such "harmless vices". And that would cost him A LOT of popular support.
For Edmure's council, here's what I'd go with: Hand: Blackfish, Grand Maester: Samwell, Master of Ships: Ser Davos, Master of Coin: Tyrion, KingsGuard Commander: Brienne, Master of Laws: Jon Snow
You know, I actually gave this some thought a few years ago, after reading up on the lore of the Free Cities, particularly the ones that Viserys and Daeny visited. Such as Volantis, one of the largest and richest of the Free Cities. A city that takes great pride in its Valyrian heritage and places high value on Valyrian ancestry. Volantis sounds to me like a good place for a pair of Targaryen exiles to find sanctuary and allies. But in order to capitalize on any of these potential resources, Viserys would have had to possess discipline and foresight. Qualities he famously lacked.
@@NK_XK1 I think if Viserys had been less of an asshole and had stayed off Dany/Drogo's bad sides long enough for Jorah to save Dany (and probably also him) from the poisoned wine at the market, Drogo might have been similarly motivated to fulfill his promise to the Targaryen siblings and conquer Westeros for them (if for no other reason than to ensure their safety). Then Drogo would just have to have more adequate wound maintenance and not die from a stupid cut and Viserys could have won the game
Viserys had only 2 qualities: His bloodline as a Targaryen and his sister, which is (well, that sounds weird considering her age in the books) beautiful and also from high valyrian ancestry. That's it. Viserys' problem isn't what he has, but what he lacked. He was kind of Joffrey without parents, having nearly all imaginable traits forcing people away from him while having none to attract people. In the story, he gambled his most valuable asset to gain an army, but that backfired right into his face. Also, there were enough years previous for him to get allies, but instead he was a guest at the house of a pentosi merchant. For Viserys to reclaim the Iron Throne and have any chance to win, you need to completely change his character. Could he have done it with a better character? Yes, of course. Wouldn't be that hard tbh. There are some Targ loyalists in the kingdoms and in Essos. He could have married Arianne Martell, forged alliances with mercenaries and the free cities and when the WotFK broke lose, he could have taken the kingdoms one by one while they were fighting each other.
I think Ned should have take the crown and the throne to the north and ruled as king surrounded by his loyal banner men and giving him time to build relationships with other high lords to form a powerful kingdom
for ned starks small council jon arryn for hand, sir Barristan the badass for lord commander , maester luwin is easylly gran maester , master of coin will most likely go Vayon Poole , Master of Whisperers could go to varys if ned give him a chance , master of war is going to Bobby B no question , edmure tully would not be a bad pick for master of laws but i can see ned offering it to him or maybe the manis ,as for master of ship i see ned giveing that to lord to fat to sit a horse wyman manderly.
Master of Coins: Wyman Manderly Master of Whispers: Bran Stark Master of Ships: Yara Greyjoy Master of Laws: Stannis Baratheon Grand maister: Archmaester Ebrose or Samwel Tarly Hand: Tywin Lannister (pragmatic)
The ending of the show is something for sure lol, but if Bran does become king at the end, I do think that Bran will be the best king Westeros has ever seen. Since Bran knows all of the past mistakes and even future happenings, he can always lead the kingdom on the right path.
Beyond the Small Council, what about the Kingsguard? I don't know about the rest of Rheagar's council, but he would arguably have the best King/Kingsguard combination.
His KG would have been the greatest of all time once Jaime had grown up i little I reckon! I mean Barristan, Dayne and Jaime in your squad is all you need really to ensure you remain alive, the other 2-3 are more loke afterthoughts! I do love the suggestion though, maybe one day we'll make a video on the dream kingsguard! Liam
Ned would not have been a good king. He would have been an honorable king surrounded by snakes. Leadership is far more nuanced than simply having honor. There will be too many situations where what is right for your people and the political system you lead aren’t the “right or just thing”. It would go poorly.
Sorry, but it doesn't matter whether Rhaegar and Lyanna were in love. He still showed EXTREME bad judgement and caused a war that got his family killed. Just giving her a prize at tournament caused a huge stink. Did he think the Starks and Baratheons WEREN'T going to be upset. Did he not know his dad was mind bogglingly insane. Sure going incommunicado while on his secret honeymoon was just a great showing of political savvy.
Thematically, at least, Bran becoming King makes sense. After the prologue, the first thing that happens is Ned teaching Bran about the responsibilities of leadership. "The man who passes sentence should swing the sword.", while shown literally in the book is more about how a leader should take responsibility for every decision he makes. Bran was the recipient of that lesson.
Hmmm. So my reaction to your points 5) Rhaegar. So as you say compared to his dad a horse is likely a good king. However I highly dispute your extolling if his virtues even if the show R+L relationship is true. The political idiocy shown by absconding with the betrothed of a Lord Paramount without word or explanation even after said lords death is called for? It is a bad enough screw up to taint almost all other positives. 4) Edmure is a great king candidate. No notes. Good analysis. Plus he actually you know…… does his Job as a ruler unlike so many others. I would serve him. He’s like a better version of Viserys the first. Give him a good hand and he is basically all in. 3) No notes. He is The King. Though to say, have him and Edmure work together and you have a perfect power duo. Either arrangement works. 2) Jon Snow….. no. Just no. He is not a terrible choice but frankly from the book he is….. just too short sighted. He has the ability to become a good king but he is far too unable to look past the current crisis and instead will charge about like a bull in the China Shop. So he could become a good king in time and compared to most Targs would seem like King Arthur’s better cousin. But from our list I think he probably rates an honourable mention. 1) Ned is possibly the best choice based on what we see. He has a proven track record as a good leader in war and peace. He is a passable politician with a strong moral compass. And a solid backbone. So I drop Jon and Rhaegar, add in Tywin and then to fill the vacant spot….. Jon Arryn. The mastermind of the rebellion, the Hand who kept the realm running for decades in the face of a useless king, pragmatic and politically minded with the respect of many of the best. Get him a different wife and council and we have a top 5 pick. So I go Tywin, Jon Arryn, Edmure, Stannis and Ned in that order. Good video
I think with Rhaegar you make an excellent point Neo! I think its a shame we never get to see how far he would taken his obsession with that prophecy. Poor Jon 😂 but I do like the suggestion of his Namesake! Thanks for watching as always Neo and the kind words! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips I’m just going to follow up with my Small Council picks here. Kings guard - as Lord Commander either Barristan or (as a favour to his wife and sister in law) the Blackfish. Either way Brynden is joining the crew. As hand - my money is on Jon Arryn. Tywin would be good but Jamie is going to be a big enough problem that I think Tywin is out of bounds. A shame as he would be good. Coin - the Merman himself Wynan Manderly is taking the post here. Ned needs a northern ally, and one who worships the seven won’t hurt. Plus he is a dab hand at trade which is going to be good for him. Laws - hardest post to fill this one. He needs someone from a different realm and very few people spring to mind. I think he would go for someone like Lord Tarth or a Dayne to help smooth over things with Dorne. Lord Dayne it is I think. (Arthur’s honourable rep should help here). Whispers - let’s keep Varys. He is good at the job and I don’t see many good replacements floating around. Or he goes out there and puts Howland Reed in position and hopes a Greenseer is a good spymaster. Ships - Stannis would be the ideal pick honestly. It is tempting to put him as laws but that is almost a waste of the one utterly loyal lord with honour AND the skills to run a fleet. Plus is Ned is King and Bobby has Storms End Stannis is going to be a lot less bitter about it as he is now a second son who gets a council seat. Grand Maester - I mean can he replace Pycelle? If he can then he does and I hope he gets Cressen. Man was awesome and could help Stannis stay in good. Keeping him and Tywin is a bigger problem. Master of War - it’s easy to put Bobby in this role. Tempting too and Ned as his friend would want him around. But unless there are a lot of wars it is redundant and you just hand Bobby a big old load of power with nothing to do with it. Makes a nice buffer against the Lannisters and Tyrells but not perfect. I would put Randal Tarly here. He is competent and disciplined. Putting him here shows he can mend fences. It elevates a powerful reach house checking the Tyrells and it doesn’t misuse your Bobby who would be “my good friend and best ally in the case of war” spreading out your power base a bit more. That is my small council for King Eddard Stark, first of his name.
stannis is a harder case as we know some of his picks his hand will be davos seaworth, i can stannis nameing ether ned stark or samwell tarly as master of laws , gran maester is going to be Maester Jurne solely as he is the only maester i see the manis trusting , master of ship will most likely go to Gilbert Farring for loyalty, i can see stannis nameing renly or lomas estermont if renlys dead as master of coin it could also go to wyman manderly if he helps the manis win , lord commander is sir barristan the badass. master of war might go to jon snow , master of whispers is clearlly going to the red women as she is already doing this in both books and show.
Okay, here's my picks for King Ned's small Council, assuming that all three Baratheons died in the rebellion, which is the only way Ned would make a claim for the throne. Or maybe if Robert died and a great Council was held after the rebellion, and Ned was chosen over Stannis who was always unpopular, and Renly who would have been too young. Hand: Jon Arryn (Ned probably would've chosen him for the same reasons Robert did) MOLaws: Hoster Tully (another important ally and father figure who by all accounts was a honorable and just Lord) MOShips: Paxtor Redwyne (he's got a big fleet, and would stand as an example of Neds magnanimity towards former Targaryen loyalists) MOCoin: Wyman Manderly (years of experience running a wealthy port city which could translate perfectly to managing the crown's finances, and collecting dues on trade in Kingslanding) MOWhispers: Howland Reed (so good at keeping secrets no one even knows where his castle is, plus he's got the magic of the old gods just like Blood Raven, a legendary MOW) LCOKingsguard: Barristan (same reasons as Robert) Grandmaester: Maester Luwin (who else would Ned Choose)
My council for any of them Hand of the King: Lord Tywin Lannister - Reason: was DAMN good at the job until the mad king provoked him, was not terrible at the job under Jeoffrey and Tommen Master of Coin: Lord Wyman Mandely - Reason: goverend the weathiest city in the north, a place not known for wealth, yet he built it up. Master of Whisperers: Varys - Reason, only real quallified person that is loyal to something more then themselves. Master of Law: Lord Randyll Tarly Reason- he may not be a nice person but he is dedicated to law and justice like few others. Master of Ships: Lord Paxter Redwyne - Reason, controls the largest fleet, obvious and only real choice. Lord Commander of the Kings Guard: Sir Barry B the Old, only one with the pedigree to do it atm. Grand Maester: Grand Maester is appointed by the Citadel of old town, the Crown "officially" has no say in who's appointed.
Small Council Grand Maester: None, it's pointless to have some other entity like the Citadel being involved with the realms politics. Have a Maester at the Red Keep for the ravens and healer but not an advisor. Yara Greyjoy as Master of Ships. She's skilled at sea and her men respect her. It's also ridiculous to ignore the Iron Islands, bring them into the fold and give them respect. Oberyn Martell as Master of Laws. He would see justice done in the city. It might harsh but no one would commit the same crime twice. Master of Whispers I'd stay with Varys. Stay true the realm and it's people and you'll know what your enemies will have for breakfast before they do. Master of War I will say Randyll Tarly. I know he might not get along with Oberyn given the history between Dorne and The Reach but his family does know how to make good foot soldiers. He could even make the Goldcloaks better. Master of Coin I can't trust anyone in Westaros for that. I wonder if I could bring someone from the Iron Bank.
If we're talking books over show, Robb is a damn good pick. Probably better than Edmure, and miles ahead of Rhaegar & Tywin. The only real mention the video makes about him is to suggest he does not put his own desires before the greater good, but that's all Robb does! Robb does not want to be king, he wants to rescue his family and bring them all home. That's why he does not trade Jaime Lannister for Sansa and Arya - because it does not benefit his kingdom. They are of so little use that Tyrion even suggests just sending Sansa home at one point, after her betrothal to Joffrey is broken, but Jaime is an important asset in any negotiations for peace. Robb did not have the option really of refusing the crown, because doing so would leave his followers in lurch, having committed treason by offering it to him. Robb can't accomplish anything for the greater good without them, but protecting them means he can't get what he wants. And let's dispense with the notion that Robb's marriage brought down his kingdom, or that it was an act of selfishness. The show, yeah. To a degree. We can't say what brought down Robb's kingdom, because the show is so badly plotted with no real groundwork establishing the politics or strategic military situation. He just teleports around the continent from episode to episode and we can't really make sense of his campaigns or whether his strategy to eliminate Gregor was a good plan or worthwhile. But in the books, it's pretty clear that Theon's capture of Winterfell (by a fluke, and some incredible stupidity on Ser Rodrik's part) inspired Roose Bolton to act against his overlord, and Stannis' defeat at the Blackwater, and the apparent strength of the Lannister-Tyrell alliance frightened the Freys into wanting a separate peace, with Roose Bolton goading them with his thesis that Robb would never make peace while he was winning battles, and showed no prospects of losing any time soon. When word comes to Harrenhal of Robb's marriage and the breaking of the Frey alliance, Roose Bolton is ALREADY IN TYWIN'S POCKET. Tywin Lannister, as we see with Balon Greyjoy, does not bribe you after you are already at war with his enemies. The only way he names Roose as Warden of the North, promises to legitimize Ramsey and offers him a Stark bride is if Roose has not yet committed. Once Roose betrays Robb, Tywin does not need to offer him bribes, because Roose has to keep fighting Robb or be destroyed, just like he won't make an alliance with Balon, once Balon is already stuck in a war with the North. So the fact that Roose gets his rewards from the crown, means he had a promise of those rewards before he ever acts against Robb. And he begins his treachery by sending Helman Tallhart and Robett Glover into an ambush near Duskendale with a large chunk of Robb's infantry, the same day the raven comes to Harrenhal with the word that the Frey betrothals are off. Once he gave that order, Roose was committed to bringing down Robb, and he would not do that without a deal in place, nor would Tywin reward him for his betrayal, unless they had an agreement before Roose made the final commitment. Unlike the show, Robb did not fall in love with an awesome sassy anachronistic anti-slavery field medic, as a grown man. Instead, as a teenager, he was injured, vulnerable, and probably roofied by his future mother-in-law when he slept with a girl comforting him in a moment of weakness. His marriage was not because he was in love with Jeyne, or a rejection of the Freys, but to make amends for a mistake. Robb was caught in a cleft stick and spurning Jeyne and going on to marry a Frey would not have been a good look for a king. As he tells the Freys in his apology, it's even more important for kings to keep their word, or, in this case, obey customs and respect morals. Kings who deflower noble maidens also lose support, because people start worrying that he will not respect their rights or will just take what he wants. Robb was not just doing the right thing in the Sunday school sense of the word, he was affirming his commitment to good governance and respect for his subjects. Notice that there is absolutely no one in Robb's camp saying he blundered or did something stupid, or complains about him costing them the Freys. Because they get it. And the marriage to Jeyne did not really change his fortunes. As I said, the Freys were looking for an excuse to bail, they were already allied by marriage to Roose Bolton, whose family were traditional enemies of the Starks. If he had found Jeyne another husband, or otherwise made amends to the Westerlings, or, hell, even just blown them off with a "sorry, nothing I can do, I am promised to another", the Red Wedding would STILL have happened, the only difference being that Robb would be the groom instead of Edmure. Or maybe Robb would have been held captive to get Roslin pregnant, and killed once she gave birth to a son whom the Freys could use to claim Winterfell. The point is, Robb did not bring his cause down by marrying for love over duty. And unlike what is implied in the video, executing Rickard Karstark was not a blunder, nor was Edmure's advice very good. Robb's execution of Rickard was necessary to affirm his authority, to keep his followers in line and to let people know that crimes will be punished, both to deter other murderers, and to assure the law-abiding that justice will be done. The show makes a big deal about costing him the support of the Karstarks, but in the books, Rickard had already sent his cavalry out to hunt down Jaime, promising extravagant rewards he could not deliver. This was not a man Robb could gain any advantages from sparing, he was an asshole just looking to cause as much pain and trouble before he was taken down. The men scattered around the countryside are beyond recovery. Letting Karstark live is just going to make Robb look soft and weak.
Pros: Better line of succession (he is already married before the Trident to Caitlyn so he can't marry Cersei), probably more invested in the job than Robert (I don't see him hiding from duty and his only distraction would be his children), a pretty just and fair guy all around, and a good war time leader. Cons: No head on his shoulders for intrigue. I could see him and Aryn making the same mistakes in terms of advisors. Though Ned would have probably killed Varys and sent Jaime at best home, at worst to the wall... Tywin might be a problem if the latter happened but if Ned simply removed his white cloak and sent Jaime home in some disgrace... Tywin might have been appeased since he got his heir back.
The video is way too kind to Rhaegar and makes a huge leap in assuming that the consequences of Rhaegar's actions were all things he anticipated and accepted, rather then completely unintended things he was blindsided by. And I lean toward the latter. If he knew it was necessary to allow his House to fall, why bother riding out to fight? Why not just bow out, or kill the Mad King and let Jaime avenge Aerys by killing him in turn? If he was not trying to tank the war, why was he off hiding away for months with Lyanna? He could keep her close while he managed the campaigns and politics of the rebellion and send her away to safety once she was pregnant. If Arthur Dayne and the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard are willing to piss away their duties solely to protect half his lovers and a third of his children, he'd have no problem keeping her protected at court and then smuggled out once he didn't need to be with her every night. I also don't give Rhaegar much credit for his plans to depose Aerys. It all seemed to rest on getting enough lords together for this huge tourney in order to bend their ears and persuade them to back Rhaegar in a coup, which was foiled when Aerys decided to attend. Harrenhal is the largest castle in the realm and much larger than any castle in the real world. Are we supposed to believe it was impossible for Rhaegar to find opportunities to pull a critical lord aside here or there? He had two Lords Paramount, Robert & Jon Arryn, present, and Robert was his closest relative outside the Targaryens, and they were allied to the Starks via betrothal and fosterage, with the Starks bringing in the Tullys as well. Just get them on board, along with his own in-laws and that's five of the seven Great Houses, and a sixth Lord Paramount, Tywin, is pissed at Aerys (which is why he wasn't there), and once called Rhaegar a better choice for king. Also, Aerys' appearance at the tourney is said to have shocked those who were not familiar with his deterioration since the Defiance of Duskendale (probably not unlike Joe Biden's debate performance). A good politician would have found a way to turn Aerys' surprise appearance into a win for his goal of deposing the Mad King. But with his tourney plan scotched, Rhaegar instead set about pissing off the very nobles he would have needed to bring to his cause. Instead of visiting their castles privately to make allies, he abducts Lyanna. And that's how it appears to the nobles, whatever her own feelings in the matter. This is going to offend that same STAB alliance he should have been courting as the decisive power in the land. The outrage of the Starks and Baratheons was completely foreseeable to anyone with half a political brain, and the very qualities that motivated Rhaegar to try deposing Aerys should have been a red flag that he was probably not going to handle the situation well at all. What's worse, if Aerys had been just a hair more cunning, he could have used Rhaegar's actions to gain the support and backing of the STAB bloc to censure and attaint Rhaegar, removing him and his icky half-Dornish children from the line of succession, in favor of Viserys, and a pledge to marry him to Rickard's first granddaughter. Rhaegar's actions during the rebellion don't support the supposition he was acting to bring about the fall of his House to fit a prophecy, and his failure to realize the danger to his House that his actions brought about signals a crucial shortcoming in a would-be king.
"As for who could have taken the top spot away from the King in the North?!! Its good ol Ned Staaaaaaakkkk". Dude I listened to that part 10 times in a row dying lol.
I think neds biggest fault with being a king is his naivety towards how far others are willing to go to get what they want, like he couldnt believe when mr beer belly Baratheon even suggested the idea of assassination towards some one who low key needed to be assassinated. I honestly cant see him correctly handling plots from some one like tywin lannister who is, in fact, willing to do ANYTHING for “family”
I think he would have issues with southern loyalty. Many would not want to bow to a northern king. Also I think his flaw could be his political ability with those less honorable than himself. (Littlefinger)…
Council of Eddard: Hand of the King: Jon Arryn (Obviously, smart man, his mentor, trusted person in all of 7 kindoms) Master of War: Robert Baratheon (No finer warrior) Master of Ships: Stannis Baratheon/lord of Arbor (both had large amounts of ships, and would be more trustworthy than Greyjoys. Manderly would be good too, but...) Master of Coin: Tywin Lannister (Rich, smart, and would be good to keep up good relations with him) Master of Whispers: Wyman Manderly (Perfection.) Maester: Maester Luwin (Pycelle is too much of a lackey for Lannisters, and Luwin seems to be a good person) Lord Commander of the Kingsguard: Obviously, Ser Barristan Selmy
now jons snow small council is easy well all but hand of the king his hand come down to when jon become king and who alive if ned is alive he would be hand first pick if hes dead then its rob then sam in that order , gran maester is aemon , master of coin is tyrion , if ned or robs alive then samwell tarly is master of laws if there both dead and sam hand then stannis , master of ship is davos seaworth, master of whispers is bran, master of war is ether going to rob first if he not dead or donal noye , lord commander is Brienne of Tarth. it really come down to whos alive when jon become king
Love these videos, they're fantastic. I must say though, I'm reading the books to work out the apparently common viewpoint on Stannis. Don't like him. On another note, one thing I was wondering about was how things would've progressed if Edmure had obeyed Robb's orders and actually managed to kill the Mountain. I don't know if this bit exists in the books but it's making me think. Perhaps for no good reason but still.
Hes a much better character in the books (still got the shitty side to him but the awesome side is far stronger than it is in the show) I'm not sure getting the Mountain is a war winning move for Rob, but its definitely a blow to Tywins untouchable status and his sides morale. Its definitely has some butterfly effects regarding Dorne though that could be interesting! Thanks for watching and the kind words my word absorbant friend! Liam
Hand of the King: Ned. In his short tenure he displayed all the attributes that you want from the second most powerful man in the realm, able to both argue with and fulfill his King’s wishes (so long as they don’t involve infanticide). If Ned’s King, then I want Davos. Master of Coin: Rego Draz, Jaehaerys’ own Pentoshi import. Master of Laws: Stannis. I presume this position is also responsible for upholding the laws. Master of ships/war: Daemon Targaryen. Hopefully he won’t be needed… Master of Whispers: Bloodraven, assuming the Hand keeps him on a short leash. Grand Maester: Aemon. Duh. Lord Commander: Ser Duncan the Tall.
Ned did what was needed time and time again, he fought wars, married his brother's bride and swong the sword after passing the sentance. But of all he did, in some capacity, his dignity stayed intact according to his and his society moral standards for the most part, being his acceptance of Jon his biggest public shame. But as a king, he would never be able to do the really bad and impactful stuff he needed to do to assure the peace. We saw before how he reacted regarding the assassination of Daenerys and the royal family. He couldn't even let Cersei die without telling her to flee with her children. Imagine if he was in a complete open war with Tywin and had to extinguised house Lannister? He wouldn't be able to, and the kingdoms would suffer. Simply put, he was too much of a good person to be a good king
I'd still pick Jon, and not just because of his bloodline. In the books and show, he's still (relatively speaking) at the beginning of his adult life while commanding a level of devotion comparable to Lord Eddard who worked to engender devotion over a lifetime of honorable behavior. Imagine how great Jon would become after 30 years as King of Westeros. If he were crowned King of the Iron Throne after the Battle of the Bastards (and without all that "muh qween" and "I dun wan it" BS) Jon should pick a man of comparable honor and experience to Lord Eddard as his Hand. He had him at Winterfell, yet never had a single private conversation with the great Lord Yohn Royce. The man loathed the Lannisters for killing Lord Eddard, despite being sworn to Lysa Tully who had sworn abasements to the iron Throne and refused to aid Robb Stark. As Master of Coin, Jon would need a lord who could grow wealth without relying on pervasive tax policies (screw you, Lords Celtigar) or flesh peddling with brothels (damn you, Baelish). For this, he could look to Lord Wyman Manderly. Not just for his experience, but for his toll/tax collectors from White Harbor. As lord of a harbor town, Lord Manderly would be able to put his people's experience to work making the most of King's Landing's status as capital and port while not beggaring the smallfolk the way certain Masters of Coin have in the past. For Master of Laws and Lord Justiciar, I'd actually split the duties, having Lord Tyrion serve as Master of Laws with his bookish nature allowing him to draw on the laws of Weseteros. Meanwhile, Lord Justiciar would have to be held by another, as I doubt Lord Tyrion would enjoy wielding that nasty axe of his for dispensing justice. That duty would be handed to Ser Bronn of the Blackwater, giving the sellsword steady pay and easy knifework (there's no way he winds up Lord of Highgarden in the books). Master of Ships too frequently goes to Ser Davos Seaworth, but I have to deviate in this regard. Instead, Asha (Yara) Greyjoy would be the logical choice with her skill as a sailor and fighter. Give her the royal navy and she'd have a fighting chance against Euron Greyjoy and his Hot Topic attire. To serve as Master of Whispers, Jon would only need Bran. The kid had the Westerosi-equivalent to an NSA wiretapping program running in his brain at all times.
And that's why i'd still go for Ned any day! He is older and has way more expirience in ruling. (Book-) Jon is between 16 and 18? Sorry can't remember correctly at the moment. In any way, in my eyes he's way to young and green for such a huge responsibility. I mean, were basically taking about ruling an huge empire here, not "just" a mere country.
I would bring two honorable mentions to this list. Number one, Davos Seaworth. A crabber's son and smuggler raised as a commoner in Kings Landing Davos understands the burden and needs of the common people. However, after serving two great Kings on this list, Stannis Baratheon and Jon Snow, he has proven he can speak to the high born and understands them and their ways. In my mind he is one of the few who could bring the two together for a better kingdom. Number 2 and my serious choice, GENDRY BARATHEON! The son of Robert Baratheon, he is the only man who can honestly further the true Baratheon line of kings not to mention he has essentially the same experience of commoner and high born that Davos does. Call me biased but I am more inclined to honor the Baratheon line than the Targaryan and they are the two real contenders for the throne in terms of blood. If I could have chosen a king at the end of the series I would have chosen Gendry ten out of ten with Tyrion as Hand and Davos as a high ranking advisor.
Gendry is the man James! Not a bad choice at all! I'm not sure Davos would ever want that spotlight on him to be honest, but I agree he'd be an AMAZING peoples king! Thanks for watching as always matey! Liam
I cannot remember how it was in the books but in the show Ned had stated that his older brother was trained for political stuff while he was trained for war tactics and stuff. Ned was too used to the North where everybody basically did as he ordered/said. Being thrown into being being king would be a different beast for him. Now, is this with not getting the crown into 6 million into debt or getting the crown out of 6 million in debt. When Ned was named as the Hand of the King and reached King's Landing, he learned that the crown was 6 million coin in debt
A different beast to be sure but Ned seems up to the task. And no this isnt a hypothetical where the kings get lumbered with Roberts staff and issues, they get a clean slate. Thanks for watching! Liam
For a Stark small council... *Hand of the King:* Jon Arryn - he is still the best pick for Ned. If he could keep things togehter under Robert, imagine if the king actually listened to him. *Master of Coin:* Tywin Lannister - it's more an olive branch, since Ned would not keep Jaime on the Kingsguard and wouldn't be able to marry Cersei. But Tywin is a legitimately good steward. *Master of War:* Stannis Baratheon - with Robert back in Storm's End, you need a real soldier to keep Westeros ready for any Greyjoys and Stannis would be very loyal to Ned. *Master of Law:* Renly Baratheon - I really wanted a more creative answer, but there is no one more noteworthy that Ned can trust, and Renly's popularity implies he's a fair man. *Master of Whispers:* Howland Reed - the Crannogmen are secretive by their nature, and Reed is one of Ned's most trusted bannermen and already keeping his secrets. And he'll need to keep them. *Master of Ships:* Brynden "Blackfish" Tully - even though he's a replacement for Stannis, he's by no means a poor fit. He's pure salt, like a sailor. And a relative of Cat. *Commander of the Kingsguard:* Arthur Dayne - if Ned could convince him to stand down while wearing the crown, there is no better swordsman. Nor any member with whom he has better ties.
Why are you even bothering with these long, enjoyable, well crafted and frankly amazing videos with tons of detail. Just put Stannis at nr. 2 and Marybert Sueratheon at nr. 1 and make up the other 3 spots. It would be so much easier than actually analysing the text and giving fair and just opinions. Looking forward to the next video.
The Bobby B is best at everything joke is well and truly dead between me and Thom now Hubertz 💀 😂 I'm not even allowed to mention his name if I want Thom to edit the video 😂 Thanks for watching as always matey! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips Oh Thank the gods... I'm sorry the Lord of Light. We all know there is only one tru god, and that is the god followed by the one and only true king.
Neds biggest flaw would he wouldnt have time to rule as hed be busy doing all the executions seeing as he has to swing the sword 😂
Good one
🤣💯
He who passes the sentence swings the blade. In the way of the North
I'm pretty sure Ned would've avoided many executions cause nights watch was always an option. They can be executed if they desert the wall and most would probably stick it out to live longer.
His poor shoulders.
Ned’s legacy as Lord Paramount and Warden of the North speaks for itself. He’d be as just and fair as the Mannis while being more likeable.
Probably one of the more interesting what ifs i think Warlord. Could imagine the WW would be fucked with Ned on the throne since him and Mannis would actually take the threat seriously.
Thanks for watching as always matey! Liam
@TheFandomeClips on top of that he would also have Robb as his heir who would be leading men too and we all know Robbs pedigree as a warleader.
Add in Stannis and Randyl and you have 3 exceptional war commanders under ned when The Others come all the while Jon Arryn manages the realm while Ned goes to north.
Jon Snows place/role in this world would be interesting as in the book he is actually a shrewd and able leader of men.
But northern lords think differently to southern lords. There, honour and justice means a lot more.
I disagree, thats cos of northern culture, they respect him and allow him to do good. That couldnt work in the south
Probably more daeron II.
Also some of the clansmen of the North literally called him “The Ned.” They are willing to fight for Stannis to avenge Ned.
The Ned in the North!
The Ned of the North!
Make way for Neddy.
NEDDY!
They made it clear the whole reason they were there was to save Neds little girl
@@twztdned Yeah, I loved that - they're so detached from Westerosi politics they're barely more a part of it than the Wildlings and have literally not a single crap to give about who's in charge or what the noble houses are doing as long as they don't come to their lands, but they'll march to war in a moment for someone purely on the basis that they came out of Ned's valyrian steel balls and need help.
They call him “The Ned” because of how their own society is structured. The leaders of the clans are just “The” and then their clan name, so “The Flint” or “The Norrey”
If a sword in a stone determined who would be king, Tywin would have hired every stone mason in the realm.
Tywin finally gets the last bit of rock off the blade and then it plants itself into another, much bigger, much tougher stone
@@alexanderkazantzis8019 🤣🤣🤣
So he would finally meet a literate stonemason
Ned would’ve been Jaehaerys I come again, he was kind but also strong, just but also merciful, and he knew how to rule effectively.
No doubt Ned would have been the best king we have seen on the show and maybe in the story as well.
No i love ned but he wouldn’t have been the ideal ruler the seven kingdoms needed
first off we have seen him play the game and honestly he sucks like sure he’s a pure man but a bad player so there’s a chance that he would be fooled or taken advantage of by the likes of tywin and little finger and his insistence on doing the right thing could cause him to make a lot of enemies
also his mercy could be seen as a weakness add to the fact that he worships the old gods unlike most of westeros and people thinking he’s a usurper
However I’m not saying he’s a bad ruler not at all he’ll still be one of the best kings in westeros it’s just that his short comings prevent him from being compared to the likes of jaehaerys
@@iisomeoneii2091 If your starting point is being the King then you don't have to play the game in the same way everyone else does. Just look at Visery's in HoTD, he was arguably a much worse player than Ned but was never deposed.
Also Ned isn't merciful, he's just. If someone is caught plotting against him he'll behead them himself for treason.
@@iisomeoneii2091You don't need to play the game when you're already king and have the backing of at least 4 of the seven kingdoms (the North, the Riverlands, the Vale and the Stormlands). And he wouldn't seem weak, since his first act as king would probably be to execute the mountain and either send Jaime to the wall or outright execute him.
No doubt Lvbo! I I honestly think both Dany and the WW would have been so screwed if Ned had sat the throne instead of Robert.
Thanks for watching! Liam
Ned as King could have also fostered a better relationship with Dorne, since he would have likely given them Tywin and The Mountain for what they did to Elia and her children.
Yeah, if The Mighty Tywin just lets Ned take him to Dorne
@@thedrinkinggamemaker9749 “mighty” gets beaten by Ned’s son in nearly every battle their forces fight
@@thedrinkinggamemaker9749 Ned would have the armies of the North, Vale, Riverlands, Crownlands & Dorne. It'd be up in the air if the Stormlands join him and the Reach would likely join in return for land. Tywin would honestly die if Ned promised if his family would survive, Ned would've expelled Jamie from the king's guard so his line was secured to his knowledge and Kevin would've helped
@@thedrinkinggamemaker9749 Only idiots think that tywins ego is the truth of what hes like
@@danekoetter6067 Exactly. Ned Stark knew how to NEGOTIATE, which is something that the other four characters on this list were... a bit lacking, in quality.
Stannis after he defended Storms End gave his men food before he eat himself and never ate more then them
@@randycrawford1132 Leaders eat last (-:
Ye stannis is a good commander but nothing more. Hes a good militarry man good for leading an army. Totaly incompetent when it come to everything else tho and there for not good as a king or anyother position other then field marshal
@@AoC_oOKingOo I feel like Stannis would be Aegon V reborn, going off book material (since d&d committed murder and I will never forgive them). He is a just man at heart, which would have won him a lot of support from the smallfolk - he would never tolerate an abusive lord, and in his own words, would make "new lords" in their place (implying he would be wiling to tear down ancient noble houses for the sake of justice).
I imagine for Ned’s small council, he’d want to diversify it somewhat rather than just having exclusively Northerners, with that in mind here’s what I think he might go with, assuming this is after Jon Arryn’s death (feel free to dispute any of these)
Grand Maester: Luwin
Master of Laws: Edmure Tully or Yohn Royce
Master of Ships: Wendel Manderly
Master of Coin: Willas Tyrell
Master of Whisperers: None (maybe Roose Bolton if I had to pick one, but I think it’s unlikely Ned would employ a MoW)
Lord Commander of KG: Barristan Selmy
Hand of the King: Stannis Baratheon
Stanis is dead in this scenario. He is completely unbending in his belief of lineage and the crown being his.
@@hazzboi1048 Unironically necessary considering how much of a King he was...
@arcticmoon1429 Def not Edmure, and Citadel picks their own Grand Maester. Lord Wyman makes sense as master of coin. Stannis as ships. Ned had massive respect for Selmy. Laws maybe Yohn Royce? The Starks relationship w the Royces is usually forgotten about.
@arcticmoon1429 I think not having a Master of Whisperers would be a fatal mistake. Ned isn't good at playing the game, so he should have someone who is. Varys would be a really good choice, imo. Do you remember the scene with Varys and Ned in the dungeons? Varys has always wanted to serve the realm, and that would be very valuable for Ned.
I don't think he would be able to get rid of Varys so easily.
I feel like Hugo Wull's quote speaks volumes about just what kind of king Ned would be,
"I would rather my men die fighting for The Ned's little girl."
@jasonvazquez8652 Yes. "The Ned" would be a great King.
In some fanfic that I've read, when Robert succumbed to his wounds in the Trident , Ned was named King because the high lords didn't want one another to be king.
You remember the name of the fanfic?
@@joebanana776 Dynasty of Wolf
Its brilliant what if, especially regarding Dany and the WW.
Thanks for watching! Liam
Logically he would have no support among the peasantry and would be eaten alive by the faith of the 7.
Honestly that's kinda realistic, Stannis might have reservations but I could see him agree. Jon Arryn would be all for it. Hoster Tulley would happily have his son-in-law be king. Tywin would probably be ok if it meant Jamie was removed from the Kingsguard with honors and Benjen married Cersi.
I think If Rhaegar cared about duty he wouldn’t have abandoned his wife and kids
It should have been Robb instead of Rhaegar
Duties come in different forms. I think Jaime says it best when he talks about oaths and how its impossible fulfil every single one without breaking an other.
What do you do when your duty to the realm requires you to forsake your duty to your family? Rhaegar had to make a choice.
Thanks for watching Dario! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips But he broke his duty to the realm, didn't he?
A prophecy is no excuse for that essepcially because he had no idea if said prophecy was real and/or ment for him.
Even if it was Lyana was 14 at that time and in no position to elope with anyone.
He was the catatalyst for all the bad things this happened afterwards and him sitting around in Dorne doing nothing while the realm burned doesn't scream dutyful either.
@@3esln Exactly he showed zero good political judgement. His dad was literal powder keg looking to blow. He pissed off two of the five most powerful families in the country and was hiding out when they came to say how pissed they were.
@@TheFandomeClips I agree that Rhaegar was Definitely was put in a rock and a hard spot when it came to sticking with his family or saving the entire realm.
But where I do have a problem is whoever came up with the plan to get Lyanna was an idiot. Now we don’t know what the plan was originally, but there is no way anyone in their right mind thought that having her disappear with the crown prints out of nowhere was a good idea. Again, we don’t know who came up with the plan so it’s pretty hard to judge it completely but we sure know the consequences of how it went down.
The best plan I can think of to not absolutely set off Brandon Stark, which is what seemed to be the biggest problem was to send Ashara Dayne and one or two other noble ladies from the Crown princes faction and a escort that was not flying red dragons, to invite her to spend some time with them at a castle, most likely one of their homes even, even more likely Starfall.
That would’ve fixed the biggest problem that everyone had. And that was the rumors of kidnapping or just dirty rumors in general. There’s no doubt in my mind that Brandon would’ve been mad if she had left without his permission, but it would not have set him off anywhere near as bad as with the crown prince, especially after the tournament at Harrenhall. Rhaegar gets his prophecy baby mama and Lyanna gets away from Robert they don’t have to live in a tower hiding because as long as the crown prince doesn’t make the fact that he’s heading to Dorne completely obvious no one should know that they are within a kingdoms distance of each other.
Another TH-camr theorized that the entire time they were hiding away at the tower of Joy, a whole bunch of negotiations were going down. Doing it this way allows for the negotiations to be done a lot more effectively. It keeps all parties involved, except for maybe the north until the final reveal is made happy. And even the north wouldn’t be that put out if what people say about Rickard Stark and his southern ambition are true having a daughter as queen he’s a pretty good deal.
Guess what I’m saying and asking is who the hell came up with the idea for the Crown prince who just blew up his entire political and social capital at the previously mentioned tournament. Should go and escort or kidnap, depending on what you believe the same person who was the reason behind blowing up his entire position. And it’s not like he went alone he went with arguably the most recognizable warrior in the seven kingdoms as well. Were they trying to alert the entirety of Worldos to what was going on.
I feel like Tywin and Edmure are polar opposites in a certain regard; The Small Council. Tywin would have had the Small Council as more of a formality used to provide information before doing what he wanted, wheras Edmure NEEDS the Council to temper his compassion, provided by he doesn't fill it with sycophants. If he puts say, the Blackfish, on the council, he'd have people who aren't afraid to disagree with him and help him make the hard decisions.
I think that's the key with Edmure. He needs folks like Blackfish by his side to give a push now and then when he needs it. Tywin needs no one but people who will shut up and do what he says 😂
Thanks for watching my good coffee filled black bird! Liam
@TheFandomeClips Sweet! Lol, look ma! I got props from one of my favorite channels!!
0:50 gregor would just pick up the sword with the rock still stuck on the end, and whack people with it as a hammer
that "love you mannis" in every video where stannis the mannis is present is just top tier.
If you follow the books you are overlooking the BIGGEST problem with Stannis is that he abandoned his brother and just waited for the Lannisters to kill Robert before pressing a claim. Ned's letter revealing Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen's parentage was intercepted and Stannis never received it yet he still acted like he had which meant he knew long beforehand and saw it as an opportunity to sit the Iron Throne instead of kneeling to any children Robert may have should he remarry. He left King's Landing almost immediately after Jon Arryn's death and just quietly prepared for war without a fucking word to either of his brothers. Readers don't tend to notice it because few POV characters have all the pieces to figure it out themselves and those that do are too blindly loyal to Stannis to care meaning he got away with it and will likely never face any fallout for it.
He also never attempted ANY negotiations with Renly when they met at Storms end, like having him be the heir given how Stannis only has a sickly and disfigured daughter and is seaminglly infertile.
I’m so happy to see some love for Ned he doesn’t seem to like underhanded tactics in combat so honor is still his weakness
Its about time he got some acknowledgement as the awesome guy he is!
Thanks for watching! Liam
Considering that keeping the oath as a king to your subjects is a necessity if the job I think honour is a bigger strength as King
Honor is not his weakness at all
Ned's biggest flaw is not believing people when they tell him exactly who they are. Little Finger is a more literal example, but characters like Cersei show who they are, and he still warns her. If he's worried about the children, there are probably other ways to protect them (kidnapping, lmao). It would be interesting to see him spend more time in Kings Landing to see how his mindset would evolve.
Hotpie better be number 1
hotpie cant be a good king cause he has to prepare to become god emperor
Basically what Mazju said 😂
The secret is to melt the butter first.
Walter White as King
Jesse Pinkman Hand of the King
Hank Schrader as Master of Laws
Saul Goodman as Master of Coin
Gus Fring as Master of Whispers
Lalo Salamanca as Master of Ships
Mike Ehrmantraut as Lord Commander of the Kinsguard
The cannon ending
@@NK_XK1 Why? It takes a real creative genius to figure things...even better. And it's spelled canon, not cannon.
@@capricornyearofthetiger Saul Goodman Master of Laws and Skyler White as Master of Coin or May be Kim Wrexler
@@nightmares_phoo I like
Great picks, and it's nice someone finally gave Edmure a fair shake. As for me, I'd say an argument could be made that Ser Davos would be a good choice for king. Sure, he might not be an expert in actual administration or things like that, but that's where a good small council can come in. He's brave (as shown by his willingness to evade the Tyrell blockade in the rebellion), his background of having come from nothing guarantees that he'll be sympathetic to the problems of the smallfolk, and we've seen time and again that he's got a fair share of wisdom to him. He's no highborn or experienced battle commander like your choices, but I for one would not be unhappy in the slightest at having that good old fellow as my ruler 😊
Ser Pounce is the rightful heir and one true king
All will quiver at the might of the one who slayed Balerion! All hail Ser Pounce!
Thanks for watching Maison! Liam
Gotta agree, Ned would have been a blessing! Hard to pick a proper concil for him though.. my suggestions would be
Grand Maester... Maester Luwin (easy choice)
Hand of the King... Stannis Baratheon (if he would accept)
Lord Commander of the Kingsguard... Barristan Selmy (Another easy choice)
Master of War... Randyll Tarly (Making peace with former enemies and he would be more disciplined than Robert)
Master of Ships... Paxter Redwyne (Helped against the Greyjoy Rebellion)
Master of Coin... Willas Tyrell? (Actually the hardest one to pick, def much more competent than his father)
Master of Whispers... Doran Martell (he is certainly good at scheming, I think he would be loyal if you give him the head of Gregor and put Tywin in a prison)
Master of Laws... Renly Baratheon (why not just keep him?)
RIP Ned 😢 he's not the king we wanted, but the king we deserved
You said that backwards.
The show really did Edmure dirty (far from the only character to get that treatment, and certainly not the worst case), but I liked book Edmure. He was by far my favorite Tully, and seems to be the only one of the siblings that doesn't ultimately take the 'family, duty, honor' motto in a twisted way. I don't know if he'd be a great king, but he does have potential. As far as the show goes.... the only thing about Show!Edmure I like is his actor, who always kills it, even when he only gets like five total minutes of screen time.
Hour of the Wolf would have gone CRAZY with Ned as ruler!!!
Defo think he would be he’s honest and kind and dose what’s right. He would hold the kingdom together with loyalty and men fight for those that they admire and treat them right. I think Ned would do the best job and would have stan the man as his hand and don’t think he would have rob anywhere near the politics he would have him as a general.
With Stannis as his hand they'd be unstoppable. They'd be no need to fight the WW because they'd have the good sense to stay on the other side of the wall with those two in charge 😂
Thanks for watching as always matey! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips stan the man can accomplish anything we all know that hahahahah
@@TheFandomeClips Everyone is well aware that the wall wasn't made to protect the realm from the Others, but to protect them from Stannis.
Ned Stark would be a very good king, but too good. I believe Stannis would be a perfect king with Ned Stark at his side as Hand of the King. Stannis is fair, feared, and knows that it is often necessary to take actions that others may disagree with. In the books even Tywin knows Stannis is extremely strong and a man to be feared. Ned, on the other hand, has empathy and his empathy could be a weak point. Still, Ned Stark is intelligent and a man of honor. Stannis and Ned would bring prosperity to the Seven Kingdoms if they were both together in King's Landing working together.
Yes the guy who killed his brother with magic and burned his daughter would be a great King, definitely not like Aerys II in any way.
@@Milwaukhehe It's Renly who was on the wrong side, he should have supported Stannis. He suffered the consequences for defying his older brother.
That Ned portion was so heart-warming.
"My people. They were afraid" King Chadmure Tully
@3:57 Although given that that was the Crown Prince and his good friend that Ser Arthur was jousting against, jury's out if Ser Arthur was trying his utmost to win. Similar argument can be made for Ser Barristan.
Rhaegar definitely beat Brandon fair and square though, which is impressive considering that Brandon was a skilled horserider (Barbrey Dustin describes him and Lyanna as "a pair of centaurs,") and jousting is stated to be 90% horsemanship
I think he would have been similar to Daeron II as king. Reasonable, logical and correcting many of the excesses, but surrounded by schemers. He might have had to fight off a rebellion or two, but would have done a lot better than Robert for example.
Imagine if Ned found a way to work together with Tywin, as his Hand. I think that would be a stunning duo
I think so too my lord! Quite a funny thing to imagine in fairness, I could see them bickering over matters of justice like an old married couple lol 😆
Thanks for watching my lord! Liam
Tywin is too evil and dishonorable in King Eddard’s eyes. Given what happened to Elia and her children, Ned would probably tell him to take the black or he will take his head.
Same goes with Jaimie, take the black or he will take his head. Ned is a kind man, but extremely stoic and judgmental.
Ned knows Tywin and also knows killing him is better for everyone long term. You Tywin fans are disturbed
For Jon
Maester Aemon as grand maester
Sam Tarly as master of coin (and kinda his hand as he’d still seek his advice but you forget how smart Tarly is with books and ledgers in the book)
Arthur Dayne as lord commander
(Show) Varys as his master of whispers (f Branns magic)
(Redeemed) Theon as his master of ships
(Old) Barristan the bold as his hand
Randel Tarly as his master of laws (he is in the books I think)
I screenshotted this to add to the suggestions Dakotalange!
@TheFandomeClips
What bout a video comparing the different kings and councils that people suggested to see which is most stable, best, etc?
Having randyll and Sam on the same council is asking for distaster
Sam is literally useless why give him any job?
Putting stannis baratheon photo on when talking about hero is great
His name definitely wouldn’t have been “The Just” it would have been “The Honorable”
Ned's greatest weakness is underestimating scheming political opponents. It could bite him in the ass in the long run
Oh he would need to clean house at the red keep thats for sure 👍
Thanks for watching Dennis! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips The second hour of the wolf is an interesting fan fiction idea.
what if the boar that killed robert was some gnomes in a costume?
FFS mate 😂😂😂
It was me
1: kill the king
2: ...?
3: profit!
For Ned as king and this is all assuming the rebellion plays out the exact same way with the difference being Ned ascends the throne instead of Bobby B:
1. Hand- Jon Arryn(if alive at the time Ned is crowned), and I would suggest Howland Reed, due to the connections they had from youth and Howlands help at the tower of joy,if Jon Arryn for whatever reason can't/won't take the position
2. Grand Maester- Pycelle, because Ned at least from what I know of the show and books truly trusted Pycelle due to his many years of service. If he was to replace Pycelle then I expect he would accept almost any grand maester from the Citadel that offers their service.
3. Master of Coin- Petr Baelish. Due to Ned mostly keeping his attention in the North I don't truly know how deep his knowledge of wealth and merchants is. And he did actually trust Littlefinger with the crowns finances as far as I'm aware, so I imagine he would stay in his position but with some oversight by Ned to avoid any dishonorable practices. He could potentially ask Tywin to take the position as a way to maintain a connection without having to marry Cersei. However the mess in Kings Landing after Ned returned from the Battle of the Trident would need one hell of an explanation from Tywin.
4. Master of Laws- Stannis Baratheon. Is there any other person who you want writing the laws for your lands. High born or low born the law is applied evenly to everyone with no exceptions. And as king Ned can temper Stannis when making laws to allow for some leeway in certain situations (I.e. stealing food to feed your family).
5. Master of Ships- Baelon Greyjoy. Now hear me out, I think this would be a wise decision because the Iron Fleet is touted as the strongest naval power in Westeros, and having them on your side is better than having to fight against them. This could also serve as a potential truce agreement between Ned and Baelon with the promise of regular trade of foods and wears, so long as the Ironborn agree to stop raiding the mainland because no way does Ned allow that to continue. While also keeping Baelon close by in case he starts planning treason against the Crown.
6. Master of Whisperers- Varys. I'm honestly not sure if this position would even exist on a small council for Eddard Stark, but if it does still exist it's possible Lord Varys could be allowed to continue in that capacity if he explains his intentions to Ned about serving the everyday people of Westeros or as Varys says "the realm". I don't know anyone else who could have this position since Ned clearly despises the practice of spying seeing it as unhonourable.
7. Lord Commander of the Kings Guard- Barristan Selmy. Ned holds honour as one of his highest virtues and Barristan the Bold is the embodiment of honour in many eyes of Westeros including Ned. I believe this is the second most obvious choice for a position on the small council period.
8. Master of War- Robert Baratheon. Obviously. Who else would it be?
That's my list let me know if you liked it or not, and don't forget to leave your suggestions in the replies down below.
Another damn good list. I wonder if Tywin was king and Jaime inherited the throne how would things play out? By the end of his journey in the books or part way through the show he’s definitely flawed but I think Jaime might actually not do as bad of a job as some people think. But he definitely had the potential to go a bit nuts.
Actually I think rebellion was inevitable because of how unhinged the mad king was
Oh definitely, Its suspected Rhaegar was aware of the impending conflict and the tourney at Harrenhal was actually him trying to rally the Lords to get his father off the throne before it happened and keep the peace.
@@TheFandomeClips Right I believe that theory, just wish rhaegar had a better well thought out plan. But yeah him kidnapping lyana was just the last straw. I always hated how bran In season 7 "said Robert rebellion was built on a lie "
He was a good Warden of the North....
I'd have to say yes, but he may not have reigned long
He'd need to gut, purge and then give the Red keep a round of bleach just to be safe when it came to his council thats for sure.
Thanks for watching! Liam
@@TheFandomeClipsso he'd have to pull a Cregan
In my opinion young Tywin with Joanna alive is the best king, the world of Westeros is brutal, to brutal for the honorable Ned Stark.
If I recall Tywin used to smile back then, I can definitely see where your coming from. I would rule Ned out though, the North is a brutal place and he did just dandy ruling it. If he could pick his council and oust the current snakes im sure he'd keep those knives out of his back.
Thanks for watching 7dragons! Liam
Ayyy its a good friday when you guys upload a video.
Why thank you my tall small friend! Liam
I think Oberyn Martell would have been fantastic.
He cares about Justice, it's not just his sister and her children he cared about. He also didn't hurt Myrcella, saying they don't hurt little girls.
He's a scholar, having learned academic matters at the citadel.
He's an able combatant, having forged a reputation as a fighter.
He's charismatic and attractive - and attractiveness does help.
He mixes with the common folk as well as the nobility.
Oberyn was led by his genitals and the common folk only existed to him for his sexual exploits. He would have been a terrible king like Robert.
Ned as King/regent for the baby Jon Targaryen after deposing the Mad King would have been ideal
Jon Arryn as hand.
Wyman Manderly as master of ships.
Barristan the Bold as leader of the king's guard.
And then we're scraping the barrel for good candidates honestly
For Ned's Small Council (I'm going to be doing this based off chars alive at the start of Book 1) I'd do the following -
Hand of the King - Stannis Baratheon [Has the disposition of both a leader and follower, will be absolutely loyal if he makes that oath, and will certainly not be afraid to voice his opinions and counsel to Ned, as well as having a mindset not like a Northman to see angles Ned couldn't]
Master of Coin - Wyman Manderly [Greed is a tempting sort, and you need someone who can manage large sums of finance without attempting to embezzle or screw their lordship over. Wyman is absolutely loyal to the Starks, and runs one of the biggest trading hubs of Westeros (even if it is the smallest of the five)]
Master of Laws - Brynden Tully [Once again, a loyal man and forthright man who is unafraid of ruffling feathers. He has the Tully compassion, but also can be as hardassed as Stannis when it counts (this is why he beats out Edmure for me), plus he can still absolutely fight to bring the King's Justice on his own merit to lead knights in Ned's name.]
Master of Whispers - Doran Martell [THE BOOK VERSION. Doran is smart, quick-witting, and willing to be patient. He can play the Game quite handedly as well, and is doing his best to play subterfuge at current. He is also a DECENT PERSON who has not shown as of yet capacity for betrayal or self-serving (Littlefinger, Vaerys) while playing behind the scenes. Plus this will also give Dorne a proper seat at the table.]
Master of Ships - Asha Greyjoy [This position was also thrown up between Stannismannis or Manderly, but Asha is an interesting choice, considering she actually, in both versions, wants to make the Ironborn play nice with the mainlanders. Plus, this will help cement some capitulation from the Ironsworn, so not everyone is going to set to reaving the second Euron shows up.]
Lord Commander - Barristan Selmy [Needs no explanation.]
Grand Maester - Samwell Tarly [A bloody genius and loyal man to a fault, Samwell would have to be taken from the Watch, but that's acceptable to have someone who both knows of the White Walkers and can help Ned prepare for them...plus in the show he CURES JORAH OF GREYSCALE.]
Id change asha greyjoy for lord jason malister of seagard and gormon tyrell or luwin for grandmaester this council would actually turn westeros into a united realm dopw
Ned would’ve been a great king if he inherited a peaceful realm he would’ve been very just and peaceful.
If Ned inherited in times of war he would’ve been a troubled king the exact things that would’ve made him good in times of peace would’ve made him awful in times of war, he was too honorable he didn’t think about politics in the way most do he had no stomach for schemes and assumed everyone would do exactly as he would do.
@@thepunisher6674 I don’t know about that. There is no evidence that he is uncomfortable using clever tactics in warfare. And he is certainly plenty capable of being a good general.
I think Ned would be a much better king in times of war. Plus his reputation as honourable and just would be a real asset to getting the people on his side. And that frankly is a bigger book than anyone can imagine.
His only real weakness is that he worships the old gods. Oh he would be tolerant (Cat had a sept built for her after all) but he would probably get a side eye from many people in the realm. However give him a proper external enemy to smash like a Greyjoy rebellion and he is likely to skyrocket in respect.
Win a war as King and people tend to not want to mess with you a lot.
@@neodigremo
I’m not saying he’s not a good general but he doesn’t have the political expirence to make Allie’s effectively, he never betrothed any of his children to any house or even promised them to anyone while he did marry Catlyn it was because it was his duty, he doesn’t make Allie’s effectively and unlike Robert people don’t forgive him as easily even people who fought against Robert grow to like him, plus he would be terrible in a coup and he would be more interested in honor than pragmatism if one of the lords who supported him did something bad he would punish them even if it meant the kingdom would slip into war. He had the chance to prevent the war of the five kings and Dave hundreds of thousands of lives but he didn’t because of his northern honor.
@@thepunisher6674 Lets not forget on the betrothal front that his oldest was only 14 years old, and the next (Sansa) maybe 12 and not even having had her period yet. I know nobles in the GOT betroth and marry young if needed but it is not unusual in this regards. Especially as Robb is his heir and so his marriage is not one to rush into. He does not need to make an alliance as of yet and so it is no bother to take his time. My knowledge of betrothals in the GOT verse is that they are not usually committed to until the child is about 15 at the earliest. Some outliers exist but it is not unusual for it to happen even later. Put simply, he has no reason to rush and can happily take his time. Until Bobby shows up he has no pressure to make allies.
He did pursue a somewhat isolationist course as Lord of Winterfell but he kept the kingdom in check, reasonably prosperous it seemed and overall well ordered. And the love his subjects has for him (even powerful lordly ones) speaks volumes for how well he did here.
As for preventing the war, one could argue he should not have warned Cersei that he knew. That would have been a smart play and I think his only real mistake. Everything else was simply a matter of the deck having been stacked against him so high, years before he showed up, that he had no way to overcome it. The Boar was an unpredictable bit of bad timing though as there was no way Cersei could have arranged it at the time of the warning, and with the actual King as an ally there would be almost no risk at all. It was a calculated mercy that backfired due to bad luck, worse timing, and the Lannisters having supremely thick plot armour in the early books.
Littlefinger's betrayal? Ned trusted him due to his wife's word, however he could not predict the betrayal so easily. In hindsight it is obvious but before then the self serving nature of the Lord of Grooming was not clear. It was a calculated risk and had Baelish not wanted Cat for himself it might have gone the other way. Supporting Renly? A terrible idea and one that made little sense even then as Renly's small guard could not overcome the goldcloaks alone. Plus it would be super double stupid illegal and make an enemy of the most dogged opponent you could ever expect.
Hold the King hostage? As soon as Cersei gets it out (and with the GM on her side it is getting out) Tywin now declares war on the capitol in the name of his Grandson the "King" and the war happens anyways, except not Tywin is ravaging the Crownlands instead. Renly still does his epic fail, Stannis his stuff and Robbs army is still on it's way. If Ned lives long enough to tell his Son and Lords to support the rightful King then that could tip the balance but there is still the issue of Renly "I should be king because trust me bro and don't I look cool with a crown" Baratheon, first of his name, King of being a useless piece of dog turd. So the war still happens anyway, just with slightly reorganised teams.
In short, I don't think Ned did much wrong as hand. And with the power of the throne, the Lords Paramount of 3 of the other kingdoms behind him due to marriage or friendship (Riverlands, Vale and Stormlands) plus Benjen probably taking Winterfell and a sterling reputation that should lead to a massive swell of support from the common people when he ascends after the Targs fall.... well I think he is in a very strong position here.
@@thepunisher6674 he will do a cregan ,
5:50 Hell the show version of Edmure could even see how killing Rickard Karstark was a bad idea so even the show version wasn't a total idiot.
Edmure was a fool.
@@Aaron_Guest A fool yes, but he was still right.
@@joshthomasmoorenew He wasn't.
Yeah in the books Edmure said to keep him a captive and Robb knew that was a good idea, but Robb said Rickard Karstark killed his honor which is why he executed him
you should make a vid about who they’re small councils would be!!!
One thing i think does get talked about enough is in the book Ned fully understands his weaknesses and actively tries to change the game to something he can win. He can't do intrigue so he was essentially planning to start a war - which he could win. The issue was Cat ignored his orders by arresting Tyrion and not going to the north to make the defensive arrangements he asked her to do. Forcing him to send out loyal men to arrest the mountain. So as king he might have had a better chance of dealing with court
One of the best assessments of Ned I have seen on-line.
Ned would have had Jon Arryn as Hand, Robert as War/an advisor, Tywin as Coin, Pycelle as Grand Maester because he’s already in that position, Renly as Laws, Stannis as Ships, Varys as Whispers because he was already there.
Honorable mentions to Renly Baratheon and Tyrion Lannister.
If you didn't mean literally "king" then pre-jumping-the-shark Daenerys Targaryen or Margaery Tyrell would have been great.
But yeah, Eddard Stark was kinda the clear choice.
I think Renly should have made the list. He was a good diplomat (he got the Reach on his side with the biggest army), he was loved by his people, and his empathy (see Brienne) inspired incredible loyalty. His big negative was probably laziness. He assembles the biggest army in Westeros and just hangs around feasting and doing tournaments and hoping his enemies would destroy each other instead of just marching to Kings landing and capturing it.
13:06 I don't think Stannis would cut fingers for every stolen loaf of bred. Davos had to pay for a lifetime of smuggling. The main problem would be that Stannis would outlaw brothels, wine sinks, gambling and such "harmless vices". And that would cost him A LOT of popular support.
For Edmure's council, here's what I'd go with: Hand: Blackfish, Grand Maester: Samwell, Master of Ships: Ser Davos, Master of Coin: Tyrion, KingsGuard Commander: Brienne, Master of Laws: Jon Snow
How Viserys could’ve won the game next bromies 🙏
Haha that is on the list of NIGHTMARE MODE challenges, I'm sure we'll have a pop at it some day
Thanks for watching Samuel! Liam
Is there even any way he could've? 😭😭
You know, I actually gave this some thought a few years ago, after reading up on the lore of the Free Cities, particularly the ones that Viserys and Daeny visited. Such as Volantis, one of the largest and richest of the Free Cities. A city that takes great pride in its Valyrian heritage and places high value on Valyrian ancestry. Volantis sounds to me like a good place for a pair of Targaryen exiles to find sanctuary and allies.
But in order to capitalize on any of these potential resources, Viserys would have had to possess discipline and foresight. Qualities he famously lacked.
@@NK_XK1 I think if Viserys had been less of an asshole and had stayed off Dany/Drogo's bad sides long enough for Jorah to save Dany (and probably also him) from the poisoned wine at the market, Drogo might have been similarly motivated to fulfill his promise to the Targaryen siblings and conquer Westeros for them (if for no other reason than to ensure their safety). Then Drogo would just have to have more adequate wound maintenance and not die from a stupid cut and Viserys could have won the game
Viserys had only 2 qualities: His bloodline as a Targaryen and his sister, which is (well, that sounds weird considering her age in the books) beautiful and also from high valyrian ancestry.
That's it.
Viserys' problem isn't what he has, but what he lacked. He was kind of Joffrey without parents, having nearly all imaginable traits forcing people away from him while having none to attract people.
In the story, he gambled his most valuable asset to gain an army, but that backfired right into his face. Also, there were enough years previous for him to get allies, but instead he was a guest at the house of a pentosi merchant.
For Viserys to reclaim the Iron Throne and have any chance to win, you need to completely change his character. Could he have done it with a better character? Yes, of course. Wouldn't be that hard tbh. There are some Targ loyalists in the kingdoms and in Essos. He could have married Arianne Martell, forged alliances with mercenaries and the free cities and when the WotFK broke lose, he could have taken the kingdoms one by one while they were fighting each other.
I think Ned should have take the crown and the throne to the north and ruled as king surrounded by his loyal banner men and giving him time to build relationships with other high lords to form a powerful kingdom
for ned starks small council jon arryn for hand, sir Barristan the badass for lord commander , maester luwin is easylly gran maester , master of coin will most likely go Vayon Poole , Master of Whisperers could go to varys if ned give him a chance , master of war is going to Bobby B no question , edmure tully would not be a bad pick for master of laws but i can see ned offering it to him or maybe the manis ,as for master of ship i see ned giveing that to lord to fat to sit a horse wyman manderly.
I've screenshotted this and added it to our suggestions chipkolat! Thanks for watching as always matey! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips o im not done yet iv got jon up then the manis
Master of Coins: Wyman Manderly
Master of Whispers: Bran Stark
Master of Ships: Yara Greyjoy
Master of Laws: Stannis Baratheon
Grand maister: Archmaester Ebrose or Samwel Tarly
Hand: Tywin Lannister (pragmatic)
@5:07 As usual, I LOVE the dialogue they come up with for these videos
@13:01 I lost it at "incest goblin" 🤣
What if rhaegar targaryen was fostered at the vale with Ned and Robert
The ending of the show is something for sure lol, but if Bran does become king at the end, I do think that Bran will be the best king Westeros has ever seen. Since Bran knows all of the past mistakes and even future happenings, he can always lead the kingdom on the right path.
Beyond the Small Council, what about the Kingsguard?
I don't know about the rest of Rheagar's council, but he would arguably have the best King/Kingsguard combination.
His KG would have been the greatest of all time once Jaime had grown up i little I reckon! I mean Barristan, Dayne and Jaime in your squad is all you need really to ensure you remain alive, the other 2-3 are more loke afterthoughts!
I do love the suggestion though, maybe one day we'll make a video on the dream kingsguard! Liam
Ned would not have been a good king. He would have been an honorable king surrounded by snakes. Leadership is far more nuanced than simply having honor. There will be too many situations where what is right for your people and the political system you lead aren’t the “right or just thing”. It would go poorly.
Sorry, but it doesn't matter whether Rhaegar and Lyanna were in love. He still showed EXTREME bad judgement and caused a war that got his family killed. Just giving her a prize at tournament caused a huge stink. Did he think the Starks and Baratheons WEREN'T going to be upset. Did he not know his dad was mind bogglingly insane. Sure going incommunicado while on his secret honeymoon was just a great showing of political savvy.
Thematically, at least, Bran becoming King makes sense. After the prologue, the first thing that happens is Ned teaching Bran about the responsibilities of leadership.
"The man who passes sentence should swing the sword.", while shown literally in the book is more about how a leader should take responsibility for every decision he makes. Bran was the recipient of that lesson.
Hmmm. So my reaction to your points
5) Rhaegar. So as you say compared to his dad a horse is likely a good king. However I highly dispute your extolling if his virtues even if the show R+L relationship is true. The political idiocy shown by absconding with the betrothed of a Lord Paramount without word or explanation even after said lords death is called for? It is a bad enough screw up to taint almost all other positives.
4) Edmure is a great king candidate. No notes. Good analysis. Plus he actually you know…… does his Job as a ruler unlike so many others. I would serve him. He’s like a better version of Viserys the first. Give him a good hand and he is basically all in.
3) No notes. He is The King. Though to say, have him and Edmure work together and you have a perfect power duo. Either arrangement works.
2) Jon Snow….. no. Just no. He is not a terrible choice but frankly from the book he is….. just too short sighted. He has the ability to become a good king but he is far too unable to look past the current crisis and instead will charge about like a bull in the China Shop. So he could become a good king in time and compared to most Targs would seem like King Arthur’s better cousin. But from our list I think he probably rates an honourable mention.
1) Ned is possibly the best choice based on what we see. He has a proven track record as a good leader in war and peace. He is a passable politician with a strong moral compass. And a solid backbone.
So I drop Jon and Rhaegar, add in Tywin and then to fill the vacant spot….. Jon Arryn. The mastermind of the rebellion, the Hand who kept the realm running for decades in the face of a useless king, pragmatic and politically minded with the respect of many of the best. Get him a different wife and council and we have a top 5 pick.
So I go Tywin, Jon Arryn, Edmure, Stannis and Ned in that order.
Good video
I think with Rhaegar you make an excellent point Neo! I think its a shame we never get to see how far he would taken his obsession with that prophecy.
Poor Jon 😂 but I do like the suggestion of his Namesake!
Thanks for watching as always Neo and the kind words! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips I’m just going to follow up with my Small Council picks here.
Kings guard - as Lord Commander either Barristan or (as a favour to his wife and sister in law) the Blackfish. Either way Brynden is joining the crew.
As hand - my money is on Jon Arryn. Tywin would be good but Jamie is going to be a big enough problem that I think Tywin is out of bounds. A shame as he would be good.
Coin - the Merman himself Wynan Manderly is taking the post here. Ned needs a northern ally, and one who worships the seven won’t hurt. Plus he is a dab hand at trade which is going to be good for him.
Laws - hardest post to fill this one. He needs someone from a different realm and very few people spring to mind. I think he would go for someone like Lord Tarth or a Dayne to help smooth over things with Dorne. Lord Dayne it is I think. (Arthur’s honourable rep should help here).
Whispers - let’s keep Varys. He is good at the job and I don’t see many good replacements floating around. Or he goes out there and puts Howland Reed in position and hopes a Greenseer is a good spymaster.
Ships - Stannis would be the ideal pick honestly. It is tempting to put him as laws but that is almost a waste of the one utterly loyal lord with honour AND the skills to run a fleet. Plus is Ned is King and Bobby has Storms End Stannis is going to be a lot less bitter about it as he is now a second son who gets a council seat.
Grand Maester - I mean can he replace Pycelle? If he can then he does and I hope he gets Cressen. Man was awesome and could help Stannis stay in good. Keeping him and Tywin is a bigger problem.
Master of War - it’s easy to put Bobby in this role. Tempting too and Ned as his friend would want him around. But unless there are a lot of wars it is redundant and you just hand Bobby a big old load of power with nothing to do with it. Makes a nice buffer against the Lannisters and Tyrells but not perfect. I would put Randal Tarly here. He is competent and disciplined. Putting him here shows he can mend fences. It elevates a powerful reach house checking the Tyrells and it doesn’t misuse your Bobby who would be “my good friend and best ally in the case of war” spreading out your power base a bit more.
That is my small council for King Eddard Stark, first of his name.
imagine Ned meeting Robert on the afterlife like a month later , "So , how'd it go?"
stannis is a harder case as we know some of his picks his hand will be davos seaworth, i can stannis nameing ether ned stark or samwell tarly as master of laws , gran maester is going to be Maester Jurne solely as he is the only maester i see the manis trusting , master of ship will most likely go to Gilbert Farring for loyalty, i can see stannis nameing renly or lomas estermont if renlys dead as master of coin it could also go to wyman manderly if he helps the manis win , lord commander is sir barristan the badass. master of war might go to jon snow , master of whispers is clearlly going to the red women as she is already doing this in both books and show.
Okay, here's my picks for King Ned's small Council, assuming that all three Baratheons died in the rebellion, which is the only way Ned would make a claim for the throne. Or maybe if Robert died and a great Council was held after the rebellion, and Ned was chosen over Stannis who was always unpopular, and Renly who would have been too young.
Hand: Jon Arryn (Ned probably would've chosen him for the same reasons Robert did)
MOLaws: Hoster Tully (another important ally and father figure who by all accounts was a honorable and just Lord)
MOShips: Paxtor Redwyne (he's got a big fleet, and would stand as an example of Neds magnanimity towards former Targaryen loyalists)
MOCoin: Wyman Manderly (years of experience running a wealthy port city which could translate perfectly to managing the crown's finances, and collecting dues on trade in Kingslanding)
MOWhispers: Howland Reed (so good at keeping secrets no one even knows where his castle is, plus he's got the magic of the old gods just like Blood Raven, a legendary MOW)
LCOKingsguard: Barristan (same reasons as Robert)
Grandmaester: Maester Luwin (who else would Ned Choose)
I've screenshotted this and added it to the pile buddy! Thanks for watching! Liam
My council for any of them
Hand of the King: Lord Tywin Lannister
- Reason: was DAMN good at the job until the mad king provoked him, was not terrible at the job under Jeoffrey and Tommen
Master of Coin: Lord Wyman Mandely
- Reason: goverend the weathiest city in the north, a place not known for wealth, yet he built it up.
Master of Whisperers: Varys
- Reason, only real quallified person that is loyal to something more then themselves.
Master of Law: Lord Randyll Tarly
Reason- he may not be a nice person but he is dedicated to law and justice like few others.
Master of Ships: Lord Paxter Redwyne
- Reason, controls the largest fleet, obvious and only real choice.
Lord Commander of the Kings Guard: Sir Barry B the Old, only one with the pedigree to do it atm.
Grand Maester: Grand Maester is appointed by the Citadel of old town, the Crown "officially" has no say in who's appointed.
Small Council
Grand Maester: None, it's pointless to have some other entity like the Citadel being involved with the realms politics. Have a Maester at the Red Keep for the ravens and healer but not an advisor.
Yara Greyjoy as Master of Ships. She's skilled at sea and her men respect her. It's also ridiculous to ignore the Iron Islands, bring them into the fold and give them respect.
Oberyn Martell as Master of Laws. He would see justice done in the city. It might harsh but no one would commit the same crime twice.
Master of Whispers I'd stay with Varys. Stay true the realm and it's people and you'll know what your enemies will have for breakfast before they do.
Master of War I will say Randyll Tarly. I know he might not get along with Oberyn given the history between Dorne and The Reach but his family does know how to make good foot soldiers. He could even make the Goldcloaks better.
Master of Coin I can't trust anyone in Westaros for that. I wonder if I could bring someone from the Iron Bank.
If we're talking books over show, Robb is a damn good pick. Probably better than Edmure, and miles ahead of Rhaegar & Tywin. The only real mention the video makes about him is to suggest he does not put his own desires before the greater good, but that's all Robb does! Robb does not want to be king, he wants to rescue his family and bring them all home. That's why he does not trade Jaime Lannister for Sansa and Arya - because it does not benefit his kingdom. They are of so little use that Tyrion even suggests just sending Sansa home at one point, after her betrothal to Joffrey is broken, but Jaime is an important asset in any negotiations for peace. Robb did not have the option really of refusing the crown, because doing so would leave his followers in lurch, having committed treason by offering it to him. Robb can't accomplish anything for the greater good without them, but protecting them means he can't get what he wants.
And let's dispense with the notion that Robb's marriage brought down his kingdom, or that it was an act of selfishness. The show, yeah. To a degree. We can't say what brought down Robb's kingdom, because the show is so badly plotted with no real groundwork establishing the politics or strategic military situation. He just teleports around the continent from episode to episode and we can't really make sense of his campaigns or whether his strategy to eliminate Gregor was a good plan or worthwhile.
But in the books, it's pretty clear that Theon's capture of Winterfell (by a fluke, and some incredible stupidity on Ser Rodrik's part) inspired Roose Bolton to act against his overlord, and Stannis' defeat at the Blackwater, and the apparent strength of the Lannister-Tyrell alliance frightened the Freys into wanting a separate peace, with Roose Bolton goading them with his thesis that Robb would never make peace while he was winning battles, and showed no prospects of losing any time soon. When word comes to Harrenhal of Robb's marriage and the breaking of the Frey alliance, Roose Bolton is ALREADY IN TYWIN'S POCKET. Tywin Lannister, as we see with Balon Greyjoy, does not bribe you after you are already at war with his enemies. The only way he names Roose as Warden of the North, promises to legitimize Ramsey and offers him a Stark bride is if Roose has not yet committed. Once Roose betrays Robb, Tywin does not need to offer him bribes, because Roose has to keep fighting Robb or be destroyed, just like he won't make an alliance with Balon, once Balon is already stuck in a war with the North. So the fact that Roose gets his rewards from the crown, means he had a promise of those rewards before he ever acts against Robb. And he begins his treachery by sending Helman Tallhart and Robett Glover into an ambush near Duskendale with a large chunk of Robb's infantry, the same day the raven comes to Harrenhal with the word that the Frey betrothals are off. Once he gave that order, Roose was committed to bringing down Robb, and he would not do that without a deal in place, nor would Tywin reward him for his betrayal, unless they had an agreement before Roose made the final commitment.
Unlike the show, Robb did not fall in love with an awesome sassy anachronistic anti-slavery field medic, as a grown man. Instead, as a teenager, he was injured, vulnerable, and probably roofied by his future mother-in-law when he slept with a girl comforting him in a moment of weakness. His marriage was not because he was in love with Jeyne, or a rejection of the Freys, but to make amends for a mistake. Robb was caught in a cleft stick and spurning Jeyne and going on to marry a Frey would not have been a good look for a king. As he tells the Freys in his apology, it's even more important for kings to keep their word, or, in this case, obey customs and respect morals. Kings who deflower noble maidens also lose support, because people start worrying that he will not respect their rights or will just take what he wants. Robb was not just doing the right thing in the Sunday school sense of the word, he was affirming his commitment to good governance and respect for his subjects. Notice that there is absolutely no one in Robb's camp saying he blundered or did something stupid, or complains about him costing them the Freys. Because they get it.
And the marriage to Jeyne did not really change his fortunes. As I said, the Freys were looking for an excuse to bail, they were already allied by marriage to Roose Bolton, whose family were traditional enemies of the Starks. If he had found Jeyne another husband, or otherwise made amends to the Westerlings, or, hell, even just blown them off with a "sorry, nothing I can do, I am promised to another", the Red Wedding would STILL have happened, the only difference being that Robb would be the groom instead of Edmure. Or maybe Robb would have been held captive to get Roslin pregnant, and killed once she gave birth to a son whom the Freys could use to claim Winterfell. The point is, Robb did not bring his cause down by marrying for love over duty.
And unlike what is implied in the video, executing Rickard Karstark was not a blunder, nor was Edmure's advice very good. Robb's execution of Rickard was necessary to affirm his authority, to keep his followers in line and to let people know that crimes will be punished, both to deter other murderers, and to assure the law-abiding that justice will be done. The show makes a big deal about costing him the support of the Karstarks, but in the books, Rickard had already sent his cavalry out to hunt down Jaime, promising extravagant rewards he could not deliver. This was not a man Robb could gain any advantages from sparing, he was an asshole just looking to cause as much pain and trouble before he was taken down. The men scattered around the countryside are beyond recovery. Letting Karstark live is just going to make Robb look soft and weak.
Pros: Better line of succession (he is already married before the Trident to Caitlyn so he can't marry Cersei), probably more invested in the job than Robert (I don't see him hiding from duty and his only distraction would be his children), a pretty just and fair guy all around, and a good war time leader.
Cons: No head on his shoulders for intrigue. I could see him and Aryn making the same mistakes in terms of advisors. Though Ned would have probably killed Varys and sent Jaime at best home, at worst to the wall... Tywin might be a problem if the latter happened but if Ned simply removed his white cloak and sent Jaime home in some disgrace... Tywin might have been appeased since he got his heir back.
The video is way too kind to Rhaegar and makes a huge leap in assuming that the consequences of Rhaegar's actions were all things he anticipated and accepted, rather then completely unintended things he was blindsided by. And I lean toward the latter. If he knew it was necessary to allow his House to fall, why bother riding out to fight? Why not just bow out, or kill the Mad King and let Jaime avenge Aerys by killing him in turn? If he was not trying to tank the war, why was he off hiding away for months with Lyanna? He could keep her close while he managed the campaigns and politics of the rebellion and send her away to safety once she was pregnant. If Arthur Dayne and the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard are willing to piss away their duties solely to protect half his lovers and a third of his children, he'd have no problem keeping her protected at court and then smuggled out once he didn't need to be with her every night.
I also don't give Rhaegar much credit for his plans to depose Aerys. It all seemed to rest on getting enough lords together for this huge tourney in order to bend their ears and persuade them to back Rhaegar in a coup, which was foiled when Aerys decided to attend. Harrenhal is the largest castle in the realm and much larger than any castle in the real world. Are we supposed to believe it was impossible for Rhaegar to find opportunities to pull a critical lord aside here or there? He had two Lords Paramount, Robert & Jon Arryn, present, and Robert was his closest relative outside the Targaryens, and they were allied to the Starks via betrothal and fosterage, with the Starks bringing in the Tullys as well. Just get them on board, along with his own in-laws and that's five of the seven Great Houses, and a sixth Lord Paramount, Tywin, is pissed at Aerys (which is why he wasn't there), and once called Rhaegar a better choice for king. Also, Aerys' appearance at the tourney is said to have shocked those who were not familiar with his deterioration since the Defiance of Duskendale (probably not unlike Joe Biden's debate performance). A good politician would have found a way to turn Aerys' surprise appearance into a win for his goal of deposing the Mad King.
But with his tourney plan scotched, Rhaegar instead set about pissing off the very nobles he would have needed to bring to his cause. Instead of visiting their castles privately to make allies, he abducts Lyanna. And that's how it appears to the nobles, whatever her own feelings in the matter. This is going to offend that same STAB alliance he should have been courting as the decisive power in the land. The outrage of the Starks and Baratheons was completely foreseeable to anyone with half a political brain, and the very qualities that motivated Rhaegar to try deposing Aerys should have been a red flag that he was probably not going to handle the situation well at all. What's worse, if Aerys had been just a hair more cunning, he could have used Rhaegar's actions to gain the support and backing of the STAB bloc to censure and attaint Rhaegar, removing him and his icky half-Dornish children from the line of succession, in favor of Viserys, and a pledge to marry him to Rickard's first granddaughter.
Rhaegar's actions during the rebellion don't support the supposition he was acting to bring about the fall of his House to fit a prophecy, and his failure to realize the danger to his House that his actions brought about signals a crucial shortcoming in a would-be king.
"As for who could have taken the top spot away from the King in the North?!! Its good ol Ned Staaaaaaakkkk". Dude I listened to that part 10 times in a row dying lol.
I think neds biggest fault with being a king is his naivety towards how far others are willing to go to get what they want, like he couldnt believe when mr beer belly Baratheon even suggested the idea of assassination towards some one who low key needed to be assassinated. I honestly cant see him correctly handling plots from some one like tywin lannister who is, in fact, willing to do ANYTHING for “family”
I think he would have issues with southern loyalty. Many would not want to bow to a northern king. Also I think his flaw could be his political ability with those less honorable than himself. (Littlefinger)…
Council of Eddard:
Hand of the King: Jon Arryn (Obviously, smart man, his mentor, trusted person in all of 7 kindoms)
Master of War: Robert Baratheon (No finer warrior)
Master of Ships: Stannis Baratheon/lord of Arbor (both had large amounts of ships, and would be more trustworthy than Greyjoys. Manderly would be good too, but...)
Master of Coin: Tywin Lannister (Rich, smart, and would be good to keep up good relations with him)
Master of Whispers: Wyman Manderly (Perfection.)
Maester: Maester Luwin (Pycelle is too much of a lackey for Lannisters, and Luwin seems to be a good person)
Lord Commander of the Kingsguard: Obviously, Ser Barristan Selmy
now jons snow small council is easy well all but hand of the king his hand come down to when jon become king and who alive if ned is alive he would be hand first pick if hes dead then its rob then sam in that order , gran maester is aemon , master of coin is tyrion , if ned or robs alive then samwell tarly is master of laws if there both dead and sam hand then stannis , master of ship is davos seaworth, master of whispers is bran, master of war is ether going to rob first if he not dead or donal noye , lord commander is Brienne of Tarth. it really come down to whos alive when jon become king
Love these videos, they're fantastic. I must say though, I'm reading the books to work out the apparently common viewpoint on Stannis. Don't like him. On another note, one thing I was wondering about was how things would've progressed if Edmure had obeyed Robb's orders and actually managed to kill the Mountain. I don't know if this bit exists in the books but it's making me think. Perhaps for no good reason but still.
Hes a much better character in the books (still got the shitty side to him but the awesome side is far stronger than it is in the show)
I'm not sure getting the Mountain is a war winning move for Rob, but its definitely a blow to Tywins untouchable status and his sides morale. Its definitely has some butterfly effects regarding Dorne though that could be interesting!
Thanks for watching and the kind words my word absorbant friend! Liam
Hand of the King: Ned. In his short tenure he displayed all the attributes that you want from the second most powerful man in the realm, able to both argue with and fulfill his King’s wishes (so long as they don’t involve infanticide). If Ned’s King, then I want Davos.
Master of Coin: Rego Draz, Jaehaerys’ own Pentoshi import.
Master of Laws: Stannis. I presume this position is also responsible for upholding the laws.
Master of ships/war: Daemon Targaryen. Hopefully he won’t be needed…
Master of Whispers: Bloodraven, assuming the Hand keeps him on a short leash.
Grand Maester: Aemon. Duh.
Lord Commander: Ser Duncan the Tall.
I’m in need of your prayers and healing vibes. Please keep me in your thoughts as I work towards better health.
Rhaegar is cringe
Stannis would be a bad king. Worship the red god or die?? seriously??? Not to killing his own daughter
Karl Tanner is the true king of the REAL north, he reigned longer then Daenerys anyway 😏
Edmure over Rhaegar??? red flag for me. Rhaegar would have a been a better king
Ned did what was needed time and time again, he fought wars, married his brother's bride and swong the sword after passing the sentance. But of all he did, in some capacity, his dignity stayed intact according to his and his society moral standards for the most part, being his acceptance of Jon his biggest public shame. But as a king, he would never be able to do the really bad and impactful stuff he needed to do to assure the peace. We saw before how he reacted regarding the assassination of Daenerys and the royal family. He couldn't even let Cersei die without telling her to flee with her children. Imagine if he was in a complete open war with Tywin and had to extinguised house Lannister? He wouldn't be able to, and the kingdoms would suffer.
Simply put, he was too much of a good person to be a good king
The discord rules
2:14 yes, yes i did
19:03 HILARIOUS
What a great video idea guys !!. Brilliant as always
I'd still pick Jon, and not just because of his bloodline. In the books and show, he's still (relatively speaking) at the beginning of his adult life while commanding a level of devotion comparable to Lord Eddard who worked to engender devotion over a lifetime of honorable behavior. Imagine how great Jon would become after 30 years as King of Westeros.
If he were crowned King of the Iron Throne after the Battle of the Bastards (and without all that "muh qween" and "I dun wan it" BS) Jon should pick a man of comparable honor and experience to Lord Eddard as his Hand. He had him at Winterfell, yet never had a single private conversation with the great Lord Yohn Royce. The man loathed the Lannisters for killing Lord Eddard, despite being sworn to Lysa Tully who had sworn abasements to the iron Throne and refused to aid Robb Stark.
As Master of Coin, Jon would need a lord who could grow wealth without relying on pervasive tax policies (screw you, Lords Celtigar) or flesh peddling with brothels (damn you, Baelish). For this, he could look to Lord Wyman Manderly. Not just for his experience, but for his toll/tax collectors from White Harbor. As lord of a harbor town, Lord Manderly would be able to put his people's experience to work making the most of King's Landing's status as capital and port while not beggaring the smallfolk the way certain Masters of Coin have in the past.
For Master of Laws and Lord Justiciar, I'd actually split the duties, having Lord Tyrion serve as Master of Laws with his bookish nature allowing him to draw on the laws of Weseteros. Meanwhile, Lord Justiciar would have to be held by another, as I doubt Lord Tyrion would enjoy wielding that nasty axe of his for dispensing justice. That duty would be handed to Ser Bronn of the Blackwater, giving the sellsword steady pay and easy knifework (there's no way he winds up Lord of Highgarden in the books).
Master of Ships too frequently goes to Ser Davos Seaworth, but I have to deviate in this regard. Instead, Asha (Yara) Greyjoy would be the logical choice with her skill as a sailor and fighter. Give her the royal navy and she'd have a fighting chance against Euron Greyjoy and his Hot Topic attire.
To serve as Master of Whispers, Jon would only need Bran. The kid had the Westerosi-equivalent to an NSA wiretapping program running in his brain at all times.
And that's why i'd still go for Ned any day! He is older and has way more expirience in ruling.
(Book-) Jon is between 16 and 18? Sorry can't remember correctly at the moment.
In any way, in my eyes he's way to young and green for such a huge responsibility.
I mean, were basically taking about ruling an huge empire here, not "just" a mere country.
I would bring two honorable mentions to this list. Number one, Davos Seaworth. A crabber's son and smuggler raised as a commoner in Kings Landing Davos understands the burden and needs of the common people. However, after serving two great Kings on this list, Stannis Baratheon and Jon Snow, he has proven he can speak to the high born and understands them and their ways. In my mind he is one of the few who could bring the two together for a better kingdom. Number 2 and my serious choice, GENDRY BARATHEON! The son of Robert Baratheon, he is the only man who can honestly further the true Baratheon line of kings not to mention he has essentially the same experience of commoner and high born that Davos does. Call me biased but I am more inclined to honor the Baratheon line than the Targaryan and they are the two real contenders for the throne in terms of blood. If I could have chosen a king at the end of the series I would have chosen Gendry ten out of ten with Tyrion as Hand and Davos as a high ranking advisor.
Gendry is the man James! Not a bad choice at all! I'm not sure Davos would ever want that spotlight on him to be honest, but I agree he'd be an AMAZING peoples king! Thanks for watching as always matey! Liam
I cannot remember how it was in the books but in the show Ned had stated that his older brother was trained for political stuff while he was trained for war tactics and stuff. Ned was too used to the North where everybody basically did as he ordered/said. Being thrown into being being king would be a different beast for him. Now, is this with not getting the crown into 6 million into debt or getting the crown out of 6 million in debt. When Ned was named as the Hand of the King and reached King's Landing, he learned that the crown was 6 million coin in debt
A different beast to be sure but Ned seems up to the task. And no this isnt a hypothetical where the kings get lumbered with Roberts staff and issues, they get a clean slate.
Thanks for watching! Liam
'Incest Goblin?!' HA! 🤣🤣🤣 that freaking killed me the instant it got spat out!
Ned you smarmy throne winning git.
Someone's watched the Stannis video 😂 thanks for watching this one too Vodeankandosii! Liam
For a Stark small council...
*Hand of the King:* Jon Arryn - he is still the best pick for Ned. If he could keep things togehter under Robert, imagine if the king actually listened to him.
*Master of Coin:* Tywin Lannister - it's more an olive branch, since Ned would not keep Jaime on the Kingsguard and wouldn't be able to marry Cersei. But Tywin is a legitimately good steward.
*Master of War:* Stannis Baratheon - with Robert back in Storm's End, you need a real soldier to keep Westeros ready for any Greyjoys and Stannis would be very loyal to Ned.
*Master of Law:* Renly Baratheon - I really wanted a more creative answer, but there is no one more noteworthy that Ned can trust, and Renly's popularity implies he's a fair man.
*Master of Whispers:* Howland Reed - the Crannogmen are secretive by their nature, and Reed is one of Ned's most trusted bannermen and already keeping his secrets. And he'll need to keep them.
*Master of Ships:* Brynden "Blackfish" Tully - even though he's a replacement for Stannis, he's by no means a poor fit. He's pure salt, like a sailor. And a relative of Cat.
*Commander of the Kingsguard:* Arthur Dayne - if Ned could convince him to stand down while wearing the crown, there is no better swordsman. Nor any member with whom he has better ties.
Ive screenshotted this Cdcdrr and added it to the suggestions, very strong choices! Thanks for watching as always! Liam
Lol a baratheon fanboy and a Tywin fanboy, youre too stupid to even realize how dumb this list is.
amazing, as always
Why are you even bothering with these long, enjoyable, well crafted and frankly amazing videos with tons of detail. Just put Stannis at nr. 2 and Marybert Sueratheon at nr. 1 and make up the other 3 spots. It would be so much easier than actually analysing the text and giving fair and just opinions. Looking forward to the next video.
The Bobby B is best at everything joke is well and truly dead between me and Thom now Hubertz 💀 😂 I'm not even allowed to mention his name if I want Thom to edit the video 😂
Thanks for watching as always matey! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips Oh Thank the gods... I'm sorry the Lord of Light. We all know there is only one tru god, and that is the god followed by the one and only true king.
2:47 I think the small folk bit is show only