Man, Thorin is really best at what he does. The whole story about Perkz masterminding entire scene so he can stay ahead in titles and Greatest Wester player ever had me in my seat I want a full documentary about this now :D
"Caps to ADC, Sign Vetheo," now that's the kind of smart thinking I'd expect Monte to come up with. 10/10 do it right now Carlos. I think Caps would be even better at ADC now than he was in 2020.
I mean, the entire split-up of the superteam happened because both Perks and Caps only wanted to play mid. What makes you think Caps actually would like to go back botside?
@@exodus1028 Perkz was very pragmatic and admitted Caps was the superior mid while becoming interested in ADC after funnel meta. ADC is boring and frustrating so I can't blame him for wanting to go back to Mid but ultimately I think he brought something to the role that no other ADC in the world could match and it's a damn shame he gave up. As for Caps, he's just not the same player anymore. On one hand I want to hope it's just the lack of a crowd and his Dad showing up to watch the matches that has sapped him of the fire that made him the best and he could wake up once COVID restrictions are gone but on the other maybe he should admit he's not the best anymore, take his conservative play into the bot lane and let a kid with fire like Vetheo take over in Mid. I want the Caps renaissance like how Faker keeps reinventing himself the moment someone like Rookie or Showmaker edge into the Best Mid debate but it's hard to watch him struggle on champions he used to 1v9 on.
@@RaytheRulerOriginal Thats all nice and true, but doesnt answer my question why Caps would want to switch to a role he wasnt overly comfortable to begin with. I can see the argument that a player of his caliber could thrive in any role and Vetheo in his current form is indeed an upgrade over Caps, BUT this move decreases Caps' value even further, no? If he performs worse mid, there is no real reason rn to believe he'd do better bot, especially in the LEC, where - like they argued in the podcast - the entire region weirdly puts more focus on that side of the map just to match Upset/Hyli, else winning any split seems doomed. In my view he'd put himself even more onto the hot seat here. The notion that he'd be taking a step back for the greater good of his team...this seems superficial to me. Again, he wasnt great as an ADC to begin with, back in a time that role seemed less stacked than its now. There is no reason to believe rn, that he'd be better...and/or - more importantly - enjoys this role more. And we all know how important how this emotional state of "feeling well and excited" is for him.
@@exodus1028 It's a gamble just like Perkz going to ADC in the first place. You probably have to wait until the end of summer split and see the year's full results but if G2 fails to get to Worlds again and Vetheo continues to look like a straight upgrade to caPs then G2's best option has to be a trade Vetheo for caPs. Misfits gets a good player and the tenured winning org gets the best player. Realistically though Carlos sells caPs to some desperate team in NA for big bucks and just buys Vetheo so he makes a profit and Misfits goes back to the ERLs to find the next winner. Maybe that's best for caPs to be having fun playing mid and dunking on all the mediocre NA mids but he always wanted to win and was so close especially with G2. If he wants to win, he either needs a renaissance or he needs to gamble his fun for what works. Caps as ADC could work; it could not but it's his only shot to stay on G2 if he doesn't suddenly wake up and remember how to be Claps. I'm of the mind that Perkz walked into ADC and started dominating the role and not just because he could pull an AP carry or Yasuo out of his ass. Caps had a harder time getting used to it but by the end he was standing across from Rekkles unafraid. The real sin is that G2 lineup with Caps cheekily at ADC never got to attempt an MSI winner defense which would've at least shown us how Caps stacks up at ADC vs the best. Anyways to me I wouldn't be surprised seeing Caps switch roles and slot in no problem as better than Flakked or just as good but this is coming from a guy delusional enough to think that Perkz and Mikyx could be the best bot lane in LEC tomorrow again. Winning is more fun than losing if you ask me but it's their career and they gotta do what feels right for them.
I think you brought up some really interesting comparisons between how we percieve regional leagues and international competitions. It really is true, and I think football is a really interesting example of this, because it's a perfect mix of regional and international hype, especially here in Europe. We have national, European, and international competitions, and all of them are hype asf. It's especially amazing since the European Championship is almost as competetive as the World Cup, and would be more competetive if it wasn't for South America existing.
Didn’t really watch LEC much this spring but why does G2 ban TF on blue side when they have a carry top playstyle. Cap 2020 TF is so good with 20 stack mejals every game. G2 vs VIT is a banger for sure
More than a top laner, Damwon's missing Beryl's shot calling and game management. Showmakers game play dipped the moment he assumed these responsibilities.
Nah DWG was always having a top side carry to generate pressure through solo lanes while bot was the eventual weak side where Beryl worked in tandem with Canyon to generate pressure across the map. The reality is DWG top is giga trash and their bot are not good enough to justify playing for their side as they only ever win lane when they draft caitlyn and dumpster by every other lane match up when not on cait.
@@whatchachattin That is also a good point. Even when DWG changed their balance of the team for a stronger bot lane the reality is it didn't net them an advantage because they are not better than their competitors whereas previous DWG iteration had arguably the best top lane to counter a weak side bot. This time they have a bottom 3 top lane with a fringe top 3 bot lane.
To be honest this year Gen G roster is not that different than DRX 2020 on paper. I don't think Ruler/Lehends is better than Deft/Keria. Pyosig was big rookie back then, but Peanut ints a lot.
I believe that there is a scale from 1-10 where 1 is the game itself being played for the better of the teams and players and 10 is for the people watching. At the current state with bounties that players in the games cant track makes the the current gamestate a 7 or 8. Great fun having the potential for comebacks. No fucking fun for the players trying to wager moves when they have no idea what team is ahead and by how much.
That must be true for the general audience. But personally I found that GenG comeback kinda disgusting how "easy" it was. Not saying GenG didn't play well enough to make it happen, but the distance they had to cover was laughably small given how the early game was going. I wouldn't necessarily say it was "enjoyable" but I guess I might be in the minority overall.
This is exactly it. People forget that when LCK was performing far worse in 2018-2019 that there viewership was increasing. Considering EU is plateauing back to their average performance their viewership has dropped off a steep cliff.
I fucking love Ruler. I'm glad Gen. G won. But that shit is fucking disgusting. I'm done with bounties & shutdowns. At this point it very much feels like punishing a team for winning. DK's play was calculated & executed with the highest possible human level of efficiency. They did not make a macro mistake at all before the game turned at top inhib tower. They even galaxy brained their application of pressure in knowing how to optimally decimate their opponent. Their only mistake was not a mistake: they made a slightly sub-optimal play to push for inhib after taking top tower (or maybe even taking the tower itself was not the best usage of their time). They needed to identify that theyre not in solo que, the enemy won't ff, and GG is a good team so they will also not crumble. They needed soul and at least 2 more barons and the steady application of pressure to enemy base. Losing Ocean Drag was a mistake. They pushed top inhib tower with 40s on infernal respawn and should have recalled to take drag. They take inhib efficiently and bloodlessly with Zigg satchel and should have recalled with 30s left to take drag. But absolutely they should have recalled at 20s to take drag before pushing for mid tower & top inhib with a siege on 2 fronts. A mistake exacerbated by getting caught but Gen G's engage. Mind you, GG dont even win that fight clean, 2 alive for DK and 3 for GG but only Ruler gets the shutdown and is sprinting with Yumi to drag with a fat bounty & Canyon has to try to make a hero play to stop him for starting the S12 special: the-losing-hard-all-game-but-I-get-an-uncontested-objective-so-I-guess-I'm-winning-now-powerspike. He does not and from that point all the bounty/shutdown mechanics in the game are snowballing a losing team with the undeniable scaling advantage to victory. Is not the point of scaling that you mitigate loses, hold on, and ultimately outplay your opponent. This never happened in the game. GG never outplayed DK all game. They just took a do-or-die fight in their base, come out half dead, and the fucking rubber bands smack DK in the eye and the game is basically theirs. Meanwhile the early game team MET THE BURDEN OF EXPECTATION. They had to execute in the early game. Which DK did masterfully. They did not face roll their opponents, they outplayed and outmacroed them for 20 minutes after coming out of draft with what would have been a superior strategy in any other season of league. Only as they earned more advantages through superior play THE FUCKING GAME MAKES THE MARGIN OF ERROR SMALLER AND SMALLER FOR THE WINNING TEAM after outplaying their opponent, which btw GG is not letting them do. It's fucking insane to me that a team can play nearly flawlessly, make little to no errors, and the game is actively conspiring against them to take the enemy nexus. This is so fucking obnoxious. Wtf is the point? Is not the balance of the game supposed to be if an early game comp fails to execute early; then scaling wins if they execute late. Right now it's if the early game comp makes any mistake at all; (mind you after already outplaying their opponents which is not a given nor guaranteed as perfectly as DK did in this game) then the game infuses thousands of gold into scaling team and they win by default totally removing their burden of execution in the late game at all.
I feel like the problem with these comebacks isnt necessarily gold bounties, its mostly long respawn timers + the base turrets being made out of paper after 30 minutes. If you get aced at 30 minutes or only someone useless who can easily be dove survives and the enemies have 4 members including their ADC alive then you can almost always instantly lose the game after 30 minutes, almost regardless of the state of the game before that. If you have a wave in the middle of the map somewhere, a TP to get there to start the push with one member you can probably end. Its kinda anticlimactic right now.
totally agree. Their argument is also kinda meh, about the inhib early. It gives pressure. If u take it early, they have a really hard time clearing. Pressure is a resource. But the towers in late need some tweaking / buffs. After 25 mins, the towers almost dont matter. For competitive means one bad team fight and you lose the game. In yolo que, where macro is worse, means that leaving a sheen hullbreaker champ alone for 30s and he takes inhib. I hero won many games on tiger udyr with hull.br. If enemy is not aware of ninja push, you can just clear 2 towers and nexus if the fight is long.
Please G2 let Caps play the champions he's good at. He obviously still enjoys playing these high skill picks more than the ones he plays on stage judging from his soloQ games, but seems to be put on support duty on the team. Wether it's a stylistic descision or if it's him underperforming in scrims I don't know, probably both. But regardless, put him on what he's the best at, high mobility carry champions.
Riot the billion dollar "INDI COMPANY" paid way below rates for any casts or analysts while Blizzard was struggling to maintain audiences and still pay hosts lucrative salaries.
I think you guys misinterpreted the F1 rule change a bit cause I think it's a great change overall It's not like the teams can just decide to not give a position back and go unpunished all the time they just won't get told immediately to do so, but rather have to judge by themselves if they should give a position back or not that way it's more of a risk for them since if they give a position back, even though they were in the right, it's hurting them a bit, but by doing so they didn't risk to get an actual penalty (usually a 5 second time penalty which usually hurts more than one position, especially at the start of a race when the field is bulked together a lot more) but the other way round, if they decide that everything they did was fine and just they keep their position even though it wasn't, they will still get punished nonetheless it's not like the stewards are paying less attention to these kinds of situations so it's a) reducing a lot of unnecessary communication, cause teams are just bitching either way, as they obviously just want themselves to reach the best outcome possible, resulting in the fact that they never not fight a decision even though they might obviously be in the wrong, and b) it adds a bit of an interesting touch that teams have to actually try look at a situation from a neutral perspective if they want to avoid a penalty instead of just asking for an opponent to be penalized (or them not to receive a penalty if it's the other way round)
The only reason I somewhat like obj. bounties, is to have some bounties on towers. I don't think there needs to be more comebacks for the stake of being comabacks. But I do think that split-pushing should be incentiviced as a potential comeback strattegy. But bounties on drag/nash is just comeback for the stake of it. So I would be happy with no bounties on drag/nash, but to have bounties on towers, however those bounties shouild be a bit smaller than they are atm, becuase towers are already nice standing gold, this would make it more valuable to risk one teammamber for a tower, which allows for some interesting strattegies.
Ok getting ready to watch setting up Drinking game Rules, Drink every time Thorin talks out of his ass Interrupts someone Makes Obscure reference while explaining someones point that was previously simple and understandable Thorin Spits on himself Interrupts again saying "The thing about this is" Makes Basketball analogy nobody cares about
@IAmKSands I didn't say clap I said they would have the freest of lanes possible. These westerns mids are fucking garbage this year, definitely the worst they have been in years.
I have faith in fudge, last year he started super slow in top and by the end of the year he was smurfing on one of the most mechanically intense champs at worlds with his lee sin. I'm feeling the same trajectory this year.
@@rowdy5734 I dont think LEC fans have watched their own region this year with how gassed up they are lol??? LEC LOOKS SO BAD ITS NOT EVEN FUNNY EVEN NA LOOKS MUCH CLEANER AND BETTER. Yet thorin and yourself are more delusional then ever!
I trust that fudge has the individual capability to adapt and improve since I trust LS' judgement. The issue is the curse of LoL being such a team game that his team might not see the results or he might have to compromise and "go down with the ship" as it were. But like they said on the show, it depends on what criteria you value to evaluate players. Does the game result matter? LS thinks not. But Thorin and Monte and most other pundits inevitably have to take that into consideration.
@@rowdy5734 Also do people realize that all of the garbage tops at MSI was looking amazing on lee sin? Lee sin max E was busted. Fudge looked awful when not on lee sin. Also, the biggest argument is that Fudge turned it around in a role he played for numerous years. Expecting that turn around as a mid laner is comical considering even Fudge best moments had nothing to do with laning.
Tenacity sitting on the side instead of replacing fakegod he should prove it make other teams notice and notice no one's scared of tenacity in champs q put your chest down boy and same to kenvi. hypothetical if tenacity replaced mid split I could easily see dig taking a playoff spot
Thorin, my guy, in the head to head between NA and EU in 2019 and 2020 internationally, the score is 6-6. It wasn't until 2022 where NA took the edge by going 4-3 against EU. So it's disingenuous to say the NA teams would get smacked by EU teams.
EU was better internationally every year compared to NA (made it further) How can you value that higher than some BO1 head to heads. Also Eu clapped them in the high stake matches(msi G2-TL or fnc c9 worlds semis). Lets hope NA gets to redeem themselves in a Best of series this year to make it more interesting!
@@yungmrlin3244 bruuh, I'm bringing up the past three years. You're going like all the way back my guy. If we're talking recent results, NA and EU are pretty much even in skill so no, the top NA teams will not get clapped simply playing in LEC. Also probably shouldn't say every year because in some years NA does better than EU internationally.
@@xJinRaGna You live in this reality. The real proof of this was c9 v rogue and mad v tl last year at worlds. 100T imo looked like the best western team last worlds. Regardless Hans and Bwipo haven't degraded (yet?) nor has Summit. Yes LCS mids look weak. The TL current team would absolutely be minimum 3rd.
53:00 discussion around LS and C9 : I really can't understand that C9 realising that LS will change structure and systems in place wouldn't let him try it for at least a full split ? Being bad and refusing to change seems very counter productive to me
Just remove shutdowns and bounties and make the gold and exp granted scale based on the total gold and level of the champion killed. At that point we can have new strategies emerge. Tactical feed/int by supports would be so much more viable and would make the game much more interesting.
I played a game as Zac vs a Jax where they invaded and killed me at 1, killed me at my blue, and then ran me off my krugs so I afk’d until my camps were back up. Jax was 6 I was still level 1 but at 20 minutes I was up 2 levels and they ended up forfeiting.
Were talking about Caps and Jankos issues that have been there for 18 months now. Remember how hard they kept throwing? How hard they would lose to MAD? Remember when they thought their bot lane (Best in EU by a mile) was the issue and got rid of Micky & Rekkless? These issues should have been solved 18 months ago by building around Rekkles. Not your lost and confused mid and jungle. Stats don't lie. Losing tells a truth.
Caps is one of the more amusing stories out of LEC. People liked to pretend he was just always peak Caps when the dude was capable of running it at basically anytime, anywhere, regardless of circumstance, except for maybe one season. If that was ever your best western player then I don't know why we are talking about best western player as if it's relevant.
Have you watch Zeus jayce first pick? T1 doesn't care about the counter, Zeus always know how to be relevant in his team and he knows how to play weak side.
Nah i'd put them behind fanatic and rogue but can compete with g2 and vitality well see maybe g2 steps up and vitality steps up and I don't see how Tl who has bwipo top who is worse then wunder hes whole career santorin who i would say is worse then razork but for argument sake id say they on same level with razork having higher ceiling bjerg is not on humanoids level no argument and right now hyli upset better then hans core jj maybe in future when they build synergy core and hans will compete with upset and hyli. Then clown 9 is very one dimensional if summit doesn't win top and blaber doesn't get 10 chain ganks off they look lost.
- explain how poke comps need to land poke and have near perfect execution to be useful otherwise 1 mistake and they're done - explain how DK didn't land poke and played like shit outside of early game (just watch the teamfights) and gave Gen G a chance to comeback - conclusion: DK should have won What the fuck did I just listen to? That's like the takes I had to listen to for MAD vs RGE last year where people said that the team that threw the game should have gone to MSI LMAO
Thorin LEC has looked like the worst they have ever looked in 5 or 6 years. If you put C9 or TL into LEC they would be title contenders at the very least with FNC as the only team i could see beating them in a bo5. Reasons why i think LEC looks weaker this year and last year is because they are using too many rookies, not paying players enough so they get to go NA. I feel like Thorins takes on NA teams this season have all been so off man like you can tell he just doesn't watch the games and is acting like its 3 years ago. The fact that he thinks Fudge wouldn't be able to "hang" in LEC is beyond me lol like wtf are you watching bro? Save this comment w/e its not gonna be a good year for LEC internationally NA will outperform them by a larger margin then ever before. IF c9 or tl go to MSI they will decimate any of the EU teams that go.
yeah but T1 actually came back from worse with players that were already on the down back in 2017. LZ also make an insane comeback against Gigabyte marines.
Just wanted to show my appreciation to Monte and Thorin for providing quality LoL content.
Mechanic excellence
The documentary of the team I would like to see is H2k with oddo and forgiven! All the uncut footage would be juicy!
Forgiven cannot speak coherently unless he flames someone
Actually really good take.
For me it wouldve been gambit for sure. I just want to see more footage of Darien.
@@Pigraider268 You could interview him in Greek and put subtitles. Good point tho ;-D
How can you make 8 mistakes in Freezes nickname? :)
Shattering point
Are there minor audio issues for anybody else or is just me?
yes
Thank you I needed confirmation
Yes they go away after Amazing joins
The GoT reference and ‘family’ conversation was actually hilarious 😂😂
Is the audio really shitty in the vod? I'm watching at the beginning and it's breaking up constantly.
Read description
Man, Thorin is really best at what he does. The whole story about Perkz masterminding entire scene so he can stay ahead in titles and Greatest Wester player ever had me in my seat I want a full documentary about this now :D
"Caps to ADC, Sign Vetheo," now that's the kind of smart thinking I'd expect Monte to come up with.
10/10 do it right now Carlos. I think Caps would be even better at ADC now than he was in 2020.
Maybe he'll get more dreams about how to win best of fives lol
I mean, the entire split-up of the superteam happened because both Perks and Caps only wanted to play mid.
What makes you think Caps actually would like to go back botside?
@@exodus1028 Perkz was very pragmatic and admitted Caps was the superior mid while becoming interested in ADC after funnel meta. ADC is boring and frustrating so I can't blame him for wanting to go back to Mid but ultimately I think he brought something to the role that no other ADC in the world could match and it's a damn shame he gave up. As for Caps, he's just not the same player anymore. On one hand I want to hope it's just the lack of a crowd and his Dad showing up to watch the matches that has sapped him of the fire that made him the best and he could wake up once COVID restrictions are gone but on the other maybe he should admit he's not the best anymore, take his conservative play into the bot lane and let a kid with fire like Vetheo take over in Mid. I want the Caps renaissance like how Faker keeps reinventing himself the moment someone like Rookie or Showmaker edge into the Best Mid debate but it's hard to watch him struggle on champions he used to 1v9 on.
@@RaytheRulerOriginal Thats all nice and true, but doesnt answer my question why Caps would want to switch to a role he wasnt overly comfortable to begin with.
I can see the argument that a player of his caliber could thrive in any role and Vetheo in his current form is indeed an upgrade over Caps, BUT this move decreases Caps' value even further, no?
If he performs worse mid, there is no real reason rn to believe he'd do better bot, especially in the LEC, where - like they argued in the podcast - the entire region weirdly puts more focus on that side of the map just to match Upset/Hyli, else winning any split seems doomed.
In my view he'd put himself even more onto the hot seat here.
The notion that he'd be taking a step back for the greater good of his team...this seems superficial to me.
Again, he wasnt great as an ADC to begin with, back in a time that role seemed less stacked than its now.
There is no reason to believe rn, that he'd be better...and/or - more importantly - enjoys this role more. And we all know how important how this emotional state of "feeling well and excited" is for him.
@@exodus1028 It's a gamble just like Perkz going to ADC in the first place. You probably have to wait until the end of summer split and see the year's full results but if G2 fails to get to Worlds again and Vetheo continues to look like a straight upgrade to caPs then G2's best option has to be a trade Vetheo for caPs. Misfits gets a good player and the tenured winning org gets the best player. Realistically though Carlos sells caPs to some desperate team in NA for big bucks and just buys Vetheo so he makes a profit and Misfits goes back to the ERLs to find the next winner.
Maybe that's best for caPs to be having fun playing mid and dunking on all the mediocre NA mids but he always wanted to win and was so close especially with G2. If he wants to win, he either needs a renaissance or he needs to gamble his fun for what works. Caps as ADC could work; it could not but it's his only shot to stay on G2 if he doesn't suddenly wake up and remember how to be Claps.
I'm of the mind that Perkz walked into ADC and started dominating the role and not just because he could pull an AP carry or Yasuo out of his ass. Caps had a harder time getting used to it but by the end he was standing across from Rekkles unafraid. The real sin is that G2 lineup with Caps cheekily at ADC never got to attempt an MSI winner defense which would've at least shown us how Caps stacks up at ADC vs the best. Anyways to me I wouldn't be surprised seeing Caps switch roles and slot in no problem as better than Flakked or just as good but this is coming from a guy delusional enough to think that Perkz and Mikyx could be the best bot lane in LEC tomorrow again. Winning is more fun than losing if you ask me but it's their career and they gotta do what feels right for them.
Is it jsut me, or is the sound quality pretty bad?`Sounds like they have perma highping
Same for me so far , Im 20mins in
Loving the weekly episdodes
I think you brought up some really interesting comparisons between how we percieve regional leagues and international competitions. It really is true, and I think football is a really interesting example of this, because it's a perfect mix of regional and international hype, especially here in Europe. We have national, European, and international competitions, and all of them are hype asf. It's especially amazing since the European Championship is almost as competetive as the World Cup, and would be more competetive if it wasn't for South America existing.
You mean European-African championship, considering the best European teams import most of all their best players from Africa lol
Didn’t really watch LEC much this spring but why does G2 ban TF on blue side when they have a carry top playstyle. Cap 2020 TF is so good with 20 stack mejals every game. G2 vs VIT is a banger for sure
More than a top laner, Damwon's missing Beryl's shot calling and game management. Showmakers game play dipped the moment he assumed these responsibilities.
Nah DWG was always having a top side carry to generate pressure through solo lanes while bot was the eventual weak side where Beryl worked in tandem with Canyon to generate pressure across the map. The reality is DWG top is giga trash and their bot are not good enough to justify playing for their side as they only ever win lane when they draft caitlyn and dumpster by every other lane match up when not on cait.
@@Gurpreet-sv5zg DK have a top tier bot lane but GEN and T1 also have very strong bot lanes so you can't reliably get them ahead
@@whatchachattin That is also a good point. Even when DWG changed their balance of the team for a stronger bot lane the reality is it didn't net them an advantage because they are not better than their competitors whereas previous DWG iteration had arguably the best top lane to counter a weak side bot. This time they have a bottom 3 top lane with a fringe top 3 bot lane.
To be honest this year Gen G roster is not that different than DRX 2020 on paper. I don't think Ruler/Lehends is better than Deft/Keria. Pyosig was big rookie back then, but Peanut ints a lot.
I believe that there is a scale from 1-10 where 1 is the game itself being played for the better of the teams and players and 10 is for the people watching. At the current state with bounties that players in the games cant track makes the the current gamestate a 7 or 8. Great fun having the potential for comebacks. No fucking fun for the players trying to wager moves when they have no idea what team is ahead and by how much.
That must be true for the general audience. But personally I found that GenG comeback kinda disgusting how "easy" it was. Not saying GenG didn't play well enough to make it happen, but the distance they had to cover was laughably small given how the early game was going. I wouldn't necessarily say it was "enjoyable" but I guess I might be in the minority overall.
Amazing did an amazing job articulating the veterans vs rookies point based on their level of comprehending map states.
is lck hype a trap? nah, you can even get hyped for tenth place teams if you have fun watching them
This is exactly it. People forget that when LCK was performing far worse in 2018-2019 that there viewership was increasing. Considering EU is plateauing back to their average performance their viewership has dropped off a steep cliff.
T1 is gonna 3-0 Gen G if they play like they did in Semis. That Gen G v Dk series was wack lol
Can someone give the time stamp that for thorin on perkz’s career ?
I fucking love Ruler. I'm glad Gen. G won. But that shit is fucking disgusting. I'm done with bounties & shutdowns. At this point it very much feels like punishing a team for winning. DK's play was calculated & executed with the highest possible human level of efficiency. They did not make a macro mistake at all before the game turned at top inhib tower. They even galaxy brained their application of pressure in knowing how to optimally decimate their opponent. Their only mistake was not a mistake: they made a slightly sub-optimal play to push for inhib after taking top tower (or maybe even taking the tower itself was not the best usage of their time). They needed to identify that theyre not in solo que, the enemy won't ff, and GG is a good team so they will also not crumble. They needed soul and at least 2 more barons and the steady application of pressure to enemy base. Losing Ocean Drag was a mistake. They pushed top inhib tower with 40s on infernal respawn and should have recalled to take drag. They take inhib efficiently and bloodlessly with Zigg satchel and should have recalled with 30s left to take drag. But absolutely they should have recalled at 20s to take drag before pushing for mid tower & top inhib with a siege on 2 fronts. A mistake exacerbated by getting caught but Gen G's engage. Mind you, GG dont even win that fight clean, 2 alive for DK and 3 for GG but only Ruler gets the shutdown and is sprinting with Yumi to drag with a fat bounty & Canyon has to try to make a hero play to stop him for starting the S12 special: the-losing-hard-all-game-but-I-get-an-uncontested-objective-so-I-guess-I'm-winning-now-powerspike. He does not and from that point all the bounty/shutdown mechanics in the game are snowballing a losing team with the undeniable scaling advantage to victory.
Is not the point of scaling that you mitigate loses, hold on, and ultimately outplay your opponent. This never happened in the game. GG never outplayed DK all game. They just took a do-or-die fight in their base, come out half dead, and the fucking rubber bands smack DK in the eye and the game is basically theirs. Meanwhile the early game team MET THE BURDEN OF EXPECTATION. They had to execute in the early game. Which DK did masterfully. They did not face roll their opponents, they outplayed and outmacroed them for 20 minutes after coming out of draft with what would have been a superior strategy in any other season of league. Only as they earned more advantages through superior play THE FUCKING GAME MAKES THE MARGIN OF ERROR SMALLER AND SMALLER FOR THE WINNING TEAM after outplaying their opponent, which btw GG is not letting them do. It's fucking insane to me that a team can play nearly flawlessly, make little to no errors, and the game is actively conspiring against them to take the enemy nexus. This is so fucking obnoxious.
Wtf is the point? Is not the balance of the game supposed to be if an early game comp fails to execute early; then scaling wins if they execute late. Right now it's if the early game comp makes any mistake at all; (mind you after already outplaying their opponents which is not a given nor guaranteed as perfectly as DK did in this game) then the game infuses thousands of gold into scaling team and they win by default totally removing their burden of execution in the late game at all.
I feel like the problem with these comebacks isnt necessarily gold bounties, its mostly long respawn timers + the base turrets being made out of paper after 30 minutes. If you get aced at 30 minutes or only someone useless who can easily be dove survives and the enemies have 4 members including their ADC alive then you can almost always instantly lose the game after 30 minutes, almost regardless of the state of the game before that. If you have a wave in the middle of the map somewhere, a TP to get there to start the push with one member you can probably end. Its kinda anticlimactic right now.
totally agree. Their argument is also kinda meh, about the inhib early. It gives pressure. If u take it early, they have a really hard time clearing. Pressure is a resource. But the towers in late need some tweaking / buffs. After 25 mins, the towers almost dont matter. For competitive means one bad team fight and you lose the game. In yolo que, where macro is worse, means that leaving a sheen hullbreaker champ alone for 30s and he takes inhib. I hero won many games on tiger udyr with hull.br. If enemy is not aware of ninja push, you can just clear 2 towers and nexus if the fight is long.
Wow, It's nice to see Patrick Stump get into League of Legends esports :O
Thx 4 the MMrs Patrick. Hope you come back from retirement.
I didnt know Foggedftw2 was a subscriber to Thorin!
2:50:00 the beginning of a banger
Content is good but the audio is really scuffed…
Please G2 let Caps play the champions he's good at. He obviously still enjoys playing these high skill picks more than the ones he plays on stage judging from his soloQ games, but seems to be put on support duty on the team. Wether it's a stylistic descision or if it's him underperforming in scrims I don't know, probably both. But regardless, put him on what he's the best at, high mobility carry champions.
The amount of game knowledge Monte has is probably above many people that sit on analist desks
Riot the billion dollar "INDI COMPANY" paid way below rates for any casts or analysts while Blizzard was struggling to maintain audiences and still pay hosts lucrative salaries.
And thankfully at least half the ego
No it isn't 🤣... Like Monte is actually a bad analyst. Caedrel, IWD, LS, etc... These are good analysts...
I hope so, Monte was a professional coach
I think you guys misinterpreted the F1 rule change a bit cause I think it's a great change overall
It's not like the teams can just decide to not give a position back and go unpunished all the time
they just won't get told immediately to do so, but rather have to judge by themselves if they should give a position back or not
that way it's more of a risk for them since if they give a position back, even though they were in the right, it's hurting them a bit, but by doing so they didn't risk to get an actual penalty (usually a 5 second time penalty which usually hurts more than one position, especially at the start of a race when the field is bulked together a lot more)
but the other way round, if they decide that everything they did was fine and just they keep their position even though it wasn't, they will still get punished nonetheless
it's not like the stewards are paying less attention to these kinds of situations
so it's a) reducing a lot of unnecessary communication, cause teams are just bitching either way, as they obviously just want themselves to reach the best outcome possible, resulting in the fact that they never not fight a decision even though they might obviously be in the wrong, and b) it adds a bit of an interesting touch that teams have to actually try look at a situation from a neutral perspective if they want to avoid a penalty instead of just asking for an opponent to be penalized (or them not to receive a penalty if it's the other way round)
The only reason I somewhat like obj. bounties, is to have some bounties on towers. I don't think there needs to be more comebacks for the stake of being comabacks. But I do think that split-pushing should be incentiviced as a potential comeback strattegy. But bounties on drag/nash is just comeback for the stake of it. So I would be happy with no bounties on drag/nash, but to have bounties on towers, however those bounties shouild be a bit smaller than they are atm, becuase towers are already nice standing gold, this would make it more valuable to risk one teammamber for a tower, which allows for some interesting strattegies.
Amazing is the Chosen one as when it comes to exceptions in German mentality
B5
Probably because he's Polish at heart
@@Meander_ how to insult a german in 1 second. next youre gonna call him french...
…Tsm POE
I actually really like the Lider angle
Was the audio fked up/glitchy for anyone else?
Ok getting ready to watch setting up Drinking game Rules,
Drink every time Thorin talks out of his ass
Interrupts someone
Makes Obscure reference while explaining someones point that was previously simple and understandable
Thorin Spits on himself
Interrupts again saying "The thing about this is"
Makes Basketball analogy nobody cares about
Western mids suck this year. Faker and Rookie are gonna have the freest of lanes at MSI.
@IAmKSands maybe meh in kr(which he isn't) but what difference does that make.
@@feature8 He's just upset because despite LEC trying to make the "EU Mids" narrative they have been a complete joke.
@@Gurpreet-sv5zg Wow I didn't know other people existed that didn't just suck off LEC and just parrot their talking points.
@IAmKSands" perhaps" for rookie is beyond delusional. It is extremely likely.
@IAmKSands I didn't say clap I said they would have the freest of lanes possible. These westerns mids are fucking garbage this year, definitely the worst they have been in years.
That speech about women attractiveness is so good.
They never update their Spotify fast and still haven’t uploaded the best damn league show on Spotify. Rip Spotify users
The fact that odo is past 24 and is still so good is mind blowing
I have faith in fudge, last year he started super slow in top and by the end of the year he was smurfing on one of the most mechanically intense champs at worlds with his lee sin. I'm feeling the same trajectory this year.
That was MSI meta homie....do people actually watch the game or educate themselves before they type shit?
@@rowdy5734 I dont think LEC fans have watched their own region this year with how gassed up they are lol??? LEC LOOKS SO BAD ITS NOT EVEN FUNNY EVEN NA LOOKS MUCH CLEANER AND BETTER. Yet thorin and yourself are more delusional then ever!
I trust that fudge has the individual capability to adapt and improve since I trust LS' judgement. The issue is the curse of LoL being such a team game that his team might not see the results or he might have to compromise and "go down with the ship" as it were. But like they said on the show, it depends on what criteria you value to evaluate players. Does the game result matter? LS thinks not. But Thorin and Monte and most other pundits inevitably have to take that into consideration.
@@rowdy5734 Also do people realize that all of the garbage tops at MSI was looking amazing on lee sin? Lee sin max E was busted. Fudge looked awful when not on lee sin. Also, the biggest argument is that Fudge turned it around in a role he played for numerous years. Expecting that turn around as a mid laner is comical considering even Fudge best moments had nothing to do with laning.
Fudge as mid already is international minimum quality.
Shit now I need to know how peke and soaz were rolling
Tenacity sitting on the side instead of replacing fakegod he should prove it make other teams notice and notice no one's scared of tenacity in champs q put your chest down boy and same to kenvi. hypothetical if tenacity replaced mid split I could easily see dig taking a playoff spot
TSM should clean house and sign all of old C9. Darshawn top, Jensen mid, Sneaky bot, Zeyzal supp. lol.
Thorin, my guy, in the head to head between NA and EU in 2019 and 2020 internationally, the score is 6-6. It wasn't until 2022 where NA took the edge by going 4-3 against EU. So it's disingenuous to say the NA teams would get smacked by EU teams.
EU was better internationally every year compared to NA (made it further)
How can you value that higher than some BO1 head to heads.
Also Eu clapped them in the high stake matches(msi G2-TL or fnc c9 worlds semis).
Lets hope NA gets to redeem themselves in a Best of series this year to make it more interesting!
@@yungmrlin3244 bruuh, I'm bringing up the past three years. You're going like all the way back my guy. If we're talking recent results, NA and EU are pretty much even in skill so no, the top NA teams will not get clapped simply playing in LEC. Also probably shouldn't say every year because in some years NA does better than EU internationally.
@@xJinRaGna You live in this reality. The real proof of this was c9 v rogue and mad v tl last year at worlds. 100T imo looked like the best western team last worlds.
Regardless Hans and Bwipo haven't degraded (yet?) nor has Summit. Yes LCS mids look weak. The TL current team would absolutely be minimum 3rd.
Thus the top of the two leagues are basically at parity.
1:01:40
Malrang reminds me of 2015 Reignover...
Thorin talking about how wild Soaz and Xpeke were kinda explains how Xpeke had the balls to flirt with Sjokz on camera. Wow.
they didn't call him sexPeke for no reason
53:00 discussion around LS and C9 :
I really can't understand that C9 realising that LS will change structure and systems in place wouldn't let him try it for at least a full split ? Being bad and refusing to change seems very counter productive to me
Showmaker has slumped or been burnt out before tbf
wooo
Ahri has 0% winrate in LEC no?
43:32 what the hell happend here
The hamfisted removal of lane swaps opened the door to all the nonsensical changes that comprise the game now.
Just remove shutdowns and bounties and make the gold and exp granted scale based on the total gold and level of the champion killed. At that point we can have new strategies emerge. Tactical feed/int by supports would be so much more viable and would make the game much more interesting.
C9 Jack fucked C9 over by firing LS.
Yeah, fuck standard drafting max
You don't know anything about the situation. Maybe he saved C9.
KEKW.
I swear its me but I can barely hear amazing with these old man ears
I played a game as Zac vs a Jax where they invaded and killed me at 1, killed me at my blue, and then ran me off my krugs so I afk’d until my camps were back up. Jax was 6 I was still level 1 but at 20 minutes I was up 2 levels and they ended up forfeiting.
Were talking about Caps and Jankos issues that have been there for 18 months now. Remember how hard they kept throwing? How hard they would lose to MAD? Remember when they thought their bot lane (Best in EU by a mile) was the issue and got rid of Micky & Rekkless? These issues should have been solved 18 months ago by building around Rekkles. Not your lost and confused mid and jungle. Stats don't lie. Losing tells a truth.
SKT vs Jin Air 94 min game change LoL landscape. Riot start making mechanic to quicken the game time from Harold, drake, elder and now bounty
You're not making sense. Why would bounty quicken the game?
LOL 32:35
56:08 Thorin mate you should work on being able to take a joke with a smile
Easier when it's a funny joke
@@allbies it is if you're not a Brit
@Provençal Le Gaulois I'll take your word for it; that's just not my personal experience but depends where you're going out to drink I guess :)
Caps is one of the more amusing stories out of LEC. People liked to pretend he was just always peak Caps when the dude was capable of running it at basically anytime, anywhere, regardless of circumstance, except for maybe one season. If that was ever your best western player then I don't know why we are talking about best western player as if it's relevant.
god, I can't listen to thorin's rants when his mic is acting up. mic got paid by tsm or something?
Neither.
I don't trust Wunder at all.
if t1 still keep picking jayce, geng will win. jayce has been heavily countered by picking tank in the top lane in every region especially in the lpl.
Have you watch Zeus jayce first pick? T1 doesn't care about the counter, Zeus always know how to be relevant in his team and he knows how to play weak side.
TL/C9 wouldn't even be top 5 in EU, they're on par with misfits.
Nah i'd put them behind fanatic and rogue but can compete with g2 and vitality well see maybe g2 steps up and vitality steps up and I don't see how Tl who has bwipo top who is worse then wunder hes whole career santorin who i would say is worse then razork but for argument sake id say they on same level with razork having higher ceiling bjerg is not on humanoids level no argument and right now hyli upset better then hans core jj maybe in future when they build synergy core and hans will compete with upset and hyli. Then clown 9 is very one dimensional if summit doesn't win top and blaber doesn't get 10 chain ganks off they look lost.
- explain how poke comps need to land poke and have near perfect execution to be useful otherwise 1 mistake and they're done
- explain how DK didn't land poke and played like shit outside of early game (just watch the teamfights) and gave Gen G a chance to comeback
- conclusion: DK should have won
What the fuck did I just listen to? That's like the takes I had to listen to for MAD vs RGE last year where people said that the team that threw the game should have gone to MSI LMAO
How can you watch both lcs and lec this year and even entertain the thought that lcs is remotely close to lec atm... cmon Amazing...
Maybe because it is
G2 are trash they need a good midlaner. Or they need to get a world class ADC and support, if they want to keep Caps
Thorin LEC has looked like the worst they have ever looked in 5 or 6 years. If you put C9 or TL into LEC they would be title contenders at the very least with FNC as the only team i could see beating them in a bo5. Reasons why i think LEC looks weaker this year and last year is because they are using too many rookies, not paying players enough so they get to go NA. I feel like Thorins takes on NA teams this season have all been so off man like you can tell he just doesn't watch the games and is acting like its 3 years ago. The fact that he thinks Fudge wouldn't be able to "hang" in LEC is beyond me lol like wtf are you watching bro? Save this comment w/e its not gonna be a good year for LEC internationally NA will outperform them by a larger margin then ever before. IF c9 or tl go to MSI they will decimate any of the EU teams that go.
Come on GEN should be given more credit. I don't think any other team in the world, and dare I say not even T1, could have pulled that off
yeah but T1 actually came back from worse with players that were already on the down back in 2017. LZ also make an insane comeback against Gigabyte marines.
Ruler is the goat Adc
@@Habeev07 fuck no
Ur actually a terrible troll