The Knight I can somewhat understand, as its movement is random in comparison to the other pieces, but I don't see why the others would have randomness attached to them. I could think of a few different ways to make a chess-themed archetype that would reflect their movements and abilities and maybe do it based on column placement instead. Like the Knight can attack directly if you call a heads or tails right, but if the Rook is adjacent to the King, and the King is targeted for an attack, then the Rook can make itself the target (castling the King and Rook), or the Bishop can't be targeted for an attack or by effects by cards it shares a column with. The Queen could be a boss monster, and the King would either be hard support that has a negative if it's ever destroyed, or it just summons Pawn tokens. Because I'd like to think that a Chess-Themed deck would be a Link deck, since board positioning is important in both Chess and in Link decks.
@@dudebladeX Rook would probably have pretty high defense as well. Rook, King, and Queen could probably also have an effect to change columns (reflecting their ability to move horizontally in chess), with the King only being able to move to adjacent columns (only being able to move one space).
@@dudebladeX I'd love to see a chess-themed archetype using columns! Maybe they could have effects where they can switch columns, even moving regular monsters into the extra monster zone or spell/trap card zone, all based on the movement patterns of their chess piece. Perhaps they'd also have powerful removal/negation effects, but only have them applicable to spaces they can attack in chess. They could also have protection from attacks/effects from certain columns based on chess rules.
@@xCorvus7x Pretty much. Bandit Keith is a known cheater but Sartorius had supernatural means of cheating as he is pretty much able to read the future and pretty much get the outcome he wants every time. He won a duel in one turn using this lol
In a nutshell. No one likes relying on chance to have an effect as underwhelming and very basic. Most gamble effects are high risk low reward. Arcana Force is notorious for this kind of terrible gamble effects.
It's telling that when me and a friend challenged each other to make a gambled based archetype. My idea was simply "craps but your able to load your dice by paying 1000 life points"
@@DarkSymphony777 Fixing the gambles makes it possible to use the gamble for themeing but it essentially just removes the entire gamble idea and just makes it "they have a fixed cost to use their effects." Really the better idea is just to make it so that the gamble cards have two different but still beneficial effects that make it less of an all or nothing mechanic and more one that makes you need to think on your feet and improvise with the gamble results. Like say their play starter you flip a coin and if it's Heads you get to immediately SS an archetype member from the hand, if it's Tails you get to search. Or alternatively if you did something like Sky Striker where there is a single okay effect and getting lucky on the gamble makes it better. Say you have an archetype member with an effect where you target a monster in your GY and roll a six-sided die, and if the Level is the same as your die roll you can SS the monster but otherwise you just add it back to your hand.
I feel like the best way to use gamble effect would be to have two (or potentially more if you use dice) positive effects, but the result depends on what you rolled. Best example would be -Heads : Destroy all monsters your opponent controls -Tails : destroy all spell and traps your opponent controls There would still be a gamble and in some circumstances you could gain nothing due to a bad roll (like in this example, you roll Tails whilst your opponent has no backrow but a full board of monsters), but it would at least be playable rather than "Head :this card gains 500 Atk until the end phase. Tails : discard your entire hand, burn your deck and then kill your parents" like it is nos
I always thought Dark Master Zorc was a great example of a gamble effect. 5/6 chance of something good happening with only a 1/6 chance of something bad. Too bad it was stuck on a level 8 ritual monster.
Oh man, Fairy Box was such a fun card. Throw in in a rock deck with Stone Statue of the Aztecs and Fault Zone and you could pull off a OHK on a heads. Plus it's cost was just low enough for you to hold onto it until you didn't need it, kinda like Messenger of Peace.
I'd say it might be the card he was referring to at the end of the video. Even if it's not, it should definitely appear in part 2. It doesn't matter whether about the luck, mostly, because your opponent will likely never attack unless it's directly. So it's basically like a 500 life point maintenance cost infinite threatening roar.
Fairy box is interesting because it technically force enemy to gamble & it have continuous property.. losing the gamble once is not that bad because there's next chance (next attack).. its extremely different with things like arcana force in which losing the gamble once means shooting your own foot.. A hand trap that forcing an opponent to toss a coin when they SS, and the SS get negated if they call wrong with effect linger until a summon is negated is sounds like a great idea simply because your opponent doesnt have the consistency of baiting the negation Also maxx c retrain that effect on SS depend on dice result, 1,2,3 draw 4 discard or lost the lingering effect, 5 nothing, 6 lost the lingering effect
not traditional gambling effect with coins/dice, but a friend of mine enjoys pulling Ordeal of a Traveler on me. until in my Dragunity deck, i manage to pull out Sigma and his invincibility to all effects
Kaiba didn’t cheat, minus the one time he threatened to kill himself, but he valued his brothers safety over his pride as a duelist: which is commendable in its own right, even if it’s dirty.
@@a1joryj He's also an idiot. At least in the manga, before Yugi pulls the living arrow fusion BS, he specifically calls attention to the negate attack in his hand as a just in case(likely for mirror force). He could have blocked the fatal attack and won legitimately.
@@kyuubinaruto17 the manga is an entirely different animal-honest to god I consider it completely separate from the anime, same way that the GX manga is different.
I remember back in the day I had a Graceful Dice spell in my deck and a die that went 2,4,8,16,32,64 and every time I would point out "LOOK the card just says six sided die it does say it is required to be 1-6"
Dark master zorc and the barrel dragons are what I think of when I think “good” gamble cards, because they do something more proactive to board state and have big bodies to swing games.
@@ShinkuDragon Hell yeah dude! Playing older yugioh formats its crazy how that effect has gotten better retroactively because of how much we value targeted removal now.
Plus Dark Master Zorc only had a 1 in 6 chance of backfiring, while its best effect has a 1 in 3 chance of going off. It's an effect that's worth the chance. Blowback Dragon meanwhile doesn't have a drawback if you fail the coin toss.
One of the most fun decks I played was Toon Barrel Dragon in Duel Links. This was before the Three Star Demotion skill nerf of course. I think it also used Wattcine to gain life back after hitting the opponent with Sanga of the Thunder to activate the skill again.
Coins and dice might be the more iconic gamble effects, but there's another tool for generating semi-random chance. Two, in fact, one for each player: the decks. Neo Spacian Glow Moss, Hazy Flame Sphynx, Conscription and Illusion Balloons are just a few examples I remember. The Spyrals and Sylvans are both archetypes that feature this form of gambling.
@@Kawaiisikkusu I'd say yes. You're gambling that you hit a card they need. For the other way round, A Hero Emerges is definitely gambling, but it's easy to rig the odds. You've also reminded me of the "Reveal cards from your deck and have the opponent select one randomly" effects.
I like to think that just drawing your hand is a gamble. Even cards like Lightsworn are gables with their deck discarding effect. However I won't include these in the gable archtype cards since it doesn't have the spirit like dice roll or coin toss. Dice rolling and coin tossing are gable because you either get it or you don't. As a mechanic it does fail largely because they didn't balance all the cards with only three being broken like Sixth Sense, The World, and Snipe Hunter.
@@giftedfox4748 That's a fair interpretation and the line does get a little blurred. I think betting between a great effect or a mediocre effect is still gambling but obviously the all-or-nothing effects are more cut and dry. Personally, I think effects where whether or how they work are determined by the reveal of an unknown card are pretty solidly in the realm of gambling. The example of Sylvans I gave are kind of on the borderline; The more situational effects could misfire but, like drawing, it is based on the consistency of your deckbuilding. Lightsworn could fall in the same category as Sylvans but I guess I've just seen too many Lumina-centric versions where the self-milling is just used to give her more options rather than to trigger effects.
@@someguyonyoutube4147 Say that to Tearlament, Spright, Branded Despia, Baronne De Fleur, Synchros, Rikka, P.U.N.K, Mathemechanicals, Rhongo, Exosister, Trickstar, and you can go on from there.
BTW the Revolver Dragon(Barrel Dragon for TCG) is my favorite Boss monster since Metal Raider set. A retained ver. Also good. But not enough piece to support it.
I absolutely loved playing Revolver Dragon's archetype in Duel Links, I never managed to build the optimal decklist since it required too many resources and I just ended up building Shiranui + Nethersoul Dragon 'cause I accidentally ended up with almost all the required cards lol
I remember when I made custom cards I came up with a boss monster that used a dice roll but had only positive effects. Even though none of them were all that broken (draw 1 card, burn your opponent for 1000, gain 1000 LP, pop one card on the field, etc.) everyone kept insisting that I had to make some of the effects negative, because that's how dice roll cards worked.
Are you the guy I dueled with my custom Crystal Beast link? Because I do remember a deck lime this where it was "good effect all the time, and if you get 5-6 the effect twice as good", as in draw 2 cards, pop 2 cards, etc. Most were fine in the vacuum, but generated TOO much advantage when put together. In either case, recommend making the effects work like this: 1 effect fizzles out, 2-4 effect goes through as normal, 5-6 effect activates twice. That way there is still a small risk of wasting a resource that keeps the cards in check but without making them entirely unplayable.
Snipe Hunter is balanced around its cost and the risk of nothing happening, thus making you waste that cost. I think people might've had a point in that if they're all positive, then it has a major potential to be massively broken. A "Nothing Happens" Effect would have made it balanced overnight.
@@Ramsey276one recently renamed from "Neo Rainbow Dragon" to "Crystal Savior St. Joan" in honor of the first fusion monster I ever got, LIGHT Fairy (formerly Dragon), 800 Atk Link 1, requires any 1 Crystal Beast monster and has this effect: "Must be link summoned. Cannot be used as link material unless all other materials are 'Crystal Beast' monsters. If this card is link summomed, you can add one 'Ancient City - Rainbow Ruins' from your deck to your hand, and if you control no other cards, take 1 'Crystal Beast' monster from your deck and 1 from your GY with different names and place them in the spell/trap zone as continous spells. You can only use this effect of 'Crystal Savior St. Joan' once per turn. If you control an 'Ultimate Crystal' monster, this card's original Atk becomes 2800" In place of the Atk effect, its used to have "If you link summon using this card as material, you can place the other materials on the spell/trap zone as continous spells instead of sending them to the GY". This effect was removed because it turned Bonds+Beacon into a full power Apollousa, Rainbow Ruins with 5 backrow negates live, while going hand neutral AND without any restrictions one further plays. Now you need to have Crystal Tree alongside these two cards and do a very specific combo to get the same results, wich leaves you much more vulnerable to interruptions, and you go -1 in hand size at least (and that combo is already possible to do without the link, only you need to draw into Rainbow Ruins as well, so it should be fine). I also made a custom fusion card that used to be either an archetypal Dragon's Mirror or a Brilliant Fusion, and ALSO got nerfed into the ground by turning it into a Thunder Dragon Fusion clone, but that locks you out of doing ANYTHING for the rest of the turn, except attacking and setting cards. As compensation, it was given this GY effect: "If an 'Ultimate Crystal' monster you control would tribute itself or banish cards from the GY to activate it's effect, you can banish this card from the GY instead, and if you do, the activated effect becomes 'Shuffle all cards your opponent controls and in their GY into the deck'." And just in case, I slapped a shared hard once per turn on the card.
As someone that used to play casual YGO when I was younger but fell off (while still keeping an interest), I would love for you to do an archetype series where you explain something along the lines of: 1. What is the general goal of the archetype that Konami wanted to do/what it became (if they differ) 2. What the archetype was like to play when it first came out 3. What the archetype is like to play nowadays. I'm quite interested in looking it up but without the knowledge of what exists and what playstyle it brings, it's become quite a gate of entry. Anyways, just a suggestion I would definitely watch if you decide to do it.
I think something people forget about Jirai Gumo is that you don't have to attack with it. It isn't Berserk Gorilla. It can just stand there and be a better wall for you than Giant Soldier of Stone or Mystical Elf, in an era of the game when defense position walls were decent inclusions to a deck.
Very informative. I always enjoy these videos. It’s nice learning about non-competitions cards and gaining appreciation for the casual stuff from back in the day.
Shoutout to Cup of Ace. Don’t forget that there’s a trap Appropriate that lets you draw whenever your opponent draws, so Cup of Ace’s negative effect becomes not as negative as a result.
I remember back in the day I played Yugioh I had a gamble deck just for fun. I pissed off so many competitive players with that deck. Gatling Dragon, Barrel Dragon, Second Coin Toss, Fairy Box and many other gamble cards, even some bad ones like Time Wizard, it was a blast. Looking forward to part 2 of this video!
got me thinking, with Archfiend, there could of been a cool gimmick where the first time you play one on the field you gain access to 3 dice. You roll those dice and they become your "tokens" to use their effects however you have to use all 3 results before you can reroll. So say you roll a 2, 3 and 6, you have to use all those dice on Archfiend effects before re-rolling or you could have a field effect active that allows you to sacrifice 1k Lifepoints for each dice you wish to reroll, but you can only use the effect once per turn. Basically you can use 1-3k Lifepoints to reroll 1-3 dice but you can only activate it on a once per turn basis. So you have to choose whether to reroll all or just one based on result you are aiming for.
Or maybe have the dice roll effects stack with each other. Have each Archfiend have its 2-3 die numbers that activate the effect, but if you have another Archfiend on the field with a different 2-3 numbers, rolling any of the listed numbers will activate the effects of both.
In all turn-based RPGs like Pokemon, any chance-based move is always skewed towards the opponent. Like, it happens more often than not that you miss the same 90% accurate move twice and your opponent PP stalls your 5 PP move with five Protects in a row
I just recently replayed nightmare troubadour and goddamn Joey's luck transcends reality itself cause no matter how many times I dueled him. He always got time wizards effect correctly
Roll of Fate from the anime would definitely be a broken staple if it was ever made. It's basically Sixth Sense with it's effects mashed together and is a spell card. They'd need to nerf it by making it like "the dice roll divided by 2 equals the amount of cards you draw and send from the top of your deck to the graveyard. If you get a 1, lose 500 LP". Or something along those lines.
As a little note, Mind Control Tech is only banned in the Arena Mode in Hearthstone (similar to draft mode, in this case it cannot appear as an option to be drafted), because there it’s a really swingy card that leaves a player angry no matter the outcome. It’s not a card good enough for constructed play. The most similar example to the Yugioh banlist as it is now it’s the banlist for the Wild Mode, which is a mode where every card can be used (just like in Yugioh), and currently includes 2 cards.
Time wizard could be decent with a fire king/ nephytys engine as they love being destroyed by card effects to pop their abilities, so it could have a somewhat more positive effect
I love these videos. Personally I love making original decks from these 'failed' cards rather than just dumping with the latest meta. But I don't mind losing and enjoy creative deck building as much as playing.
Graceful Dice is one of the most reviled cards of my childhood. Even as a kid I knew it was awful, why would I not just play Rush Recklessly? Rush Recklessly came out first.
Couple of small corrections on Lucky Chance - It's not a once per turn effect, it's a once per chain effect. Which would make it downright broken if any one coin gamble monsters existed that could use their effects multiple times per turn. It also doesn't do a seperate coin toss, it uses the coin flip from the monster effect - which means you can use it to call the bad option on the flip (e.g. Tails on Time Wizard), garunteeing you some sort of positive effect either way it goes (and if you have somehow have multiple copies of it out, it can garuntee you drawing a card either way if you call Heads with one and Tails with the other). It's still not a good card, but that's entirely because there's no good one coin gamble monsters to use it with. If there were better cards that it could synergise with, it would be really good support for a gamble deck.
I feel like Jirai Gumo would be like Solemn Judgment if people played the older version of the game like they played the current version. Half your LP is worth beating over your opponent's cards and keeping advantage since you only need 1 LP to win, as long as you wipe out your opponent's.
People do play goat format nowadays pretty seriously and while Solemn Judgment is played I don't think I've ever seen Jirai Gumo in decklists. I've never seen 2002 format tournaments so who knows, maybe it can have its use.
With how much removal there was even back then, I dont see jirai gumo being that good even if they didn't care too much about life points. Judgement can negate a critical play and win you the game on the spot. Jirai at best is a big beatstick with a huge risk everytime it attacks
Not really 1. Skull archfiend only has target protection. Any effect that doesn't target still works on it and 2. Destroying one of your traps is also an option. And ultimately, using 3 cards including a tribute monster for nothing but a 2.5k beater with a shaky target protection and no further effect? There's 2 card combos that give you a 4k beater with true target protection that also can't be destroyed by target protection and deals double piercing battle damage, and even THAT is considered not good enough.
I actually have both a coin toss and a dice gimmick deck, there isn't enough support however so they're pretty inconsistent. The win condition for the dice deck is basically Dice Jar + some other burn damage like Hinezumi Hanabi, supported by That Six. The coin toss deck is all about Desperado Barrel Dragon and Proton Blast + some generic level 7 synchros. It's also a deck that can actually use Dueltaining.
So fitting that gambling is today's theme (personal reasons...); as someone that hates rng games I still like ygo despite having a random chance to draw you a good hand (at least manipulable with deck construction) Merry Christmas, and thanks for these interesting videos
Gave me an idea - Gambler's Ruin Field Spell - If a Monster card involves a dice roll or coin toss, it gains 1000 ATK and DEF. Quick Effect: if an effect that includes a dice roll or coin toss is activated, after the coin toss or dice roll, you can change the effect to Banish the top card from your deck facedown instead. Once per turn: If Gambler's Ruin is in your Graveyard, you can toss a coin, if you call it correctly, add Gambler's Ruin to your hand from the GY.
My all-time favorite gamble card is Orgoth the Relentless. He's kinda hard to get on the field, and his effect isn't the best, but he just feel so damn powerful, especially in Duel Links with Devlin's skill
While i am cautious about using gamble cards that have steep cost, I still have some fun when playing with some these cards regardless of their risky cost. Back then, i love using snipe hunter and dark master zorc's effect to rid of some troublesome cards that gives me some annoyance. Same for some for more risky yet rewarding cards can be very fun to play. While I do agree that the gamble cards has so many cons than pros and can either make or break the game, many players do still play these purely for the excitement for it when lady luck is on their side.
I bet that the staple gamble card that was used for a long time is Cup of Ace. Half the time, it's a costless Pot of Desires, and the other half, it's a Gift of Greed. People would be willing to take that risk, especially in a mill deck, where getting rid of your opponent's deck would be the main goal of the deck. Though, I think that the best way to make a gamble deck would be to either have a beneficial effect on a dice roll going your way, or not having anything happen if it didn't go your way, like Snipe Hunter. Getting a 1 or a 6 isn't a major detriment, it just means you paid the cost and didn't get anything out of it. But pulling off Snipe Hunter means that you get to blow up one of your opponent's cards. It's balanced around the cost of the card, not around the effects of not pulling off the gamble. If there were more cards like that, then gamble cards might actually see more play.
As someone who has a crazy amount of luck on almost any game, I like gamble cards that have the obvious very good effect but equally bad effect so it is a true test of luck. It's sad that some of these cards have awful set up or just meh effects for winning the gamble I Want to see an archetype that gambles in a way that has effects that are just as good as they are bad, just high risk high reward and support so that "loading the dice/cheating the flip" is more of a helpful option than a must for the deck to get anywhere
Funny you mention Hearthstone. For a long period of time Yogg Saaron was played in a tier 0 deck. Its effect was cast a random spell for every spell you've cast in this game. Needless to say, the Hearthstone professional scene became the biggest joke it had ever been until recently when another even more ridiculous gamble card was released, Deck of Lunacy. Its effect was to replace all spells in your deck with random ones that cost 3 more but retain their original cost. Hearthstone as an esport has been a long-running meme due to the card design direction.
I think their idea is that if the losing effect is equal and opposite to the winning effect, the card is a net zero. However, because using the card is a -1, the result is that they are a net -1. To make a chance card worth using, it needs to either: 1. Have a good effect that overwhelming outweighs the bad effect 2. Replace the bad effect with a mediocre effect (or simply do nothing and have the inherent -1 be the downside) 3. Have a chance between two different good effects Examples of those could be: 1. Coin flip to either draw 4 or discard 1 2. Coin flip to either draw 2 or do nothing 3. Coin flip to banish a card from either the opponent's hand or field
Took me years to realize those early Archfiend cards were a play on Chess pieces; Terror (King), Infernal (Queen), Shadow (Knight), Dark (Bishop), Des (Rook), Vile (Pawn).
In actual competitive cardboard mode, most of these cards are awful but I've gotten many wins in Master Duel playing the All Gamble Deck. A lot of opponents see you summon a coin flip monster, activate 2nd Coin Toss and just scoop out of sheer annoyance. To be fair I lose at least as often as I win with it but boy is it fun when it works. Plus it's easier to accept a loss when you can say it was all up to a roll of the dice. Lol
The question is, could this particular gimmick ever even have been successful (Outside of accidentally making them all broken like sixth sense) ? Yugioh is heavily reliant on consistency, and gamble effects fly in the face of that.
It's not just Yugioh. Every cardgame has immense problems with making gamble cards usable in a way that isn't broken and, importantly, are on some level fun to play against. For example, while I haven't played Hearthstone in years, one of the common critisism about the game as a whole was that there are too many gamble effects that had essentially no downside. Most of them would, at the very worst, give you a brick, but that's still a card you get. As the video points out, gamble cards have to be beneficial on a bad result to make people consider them at all. As a designer, if you want your gambling card to feel distinct, you also need to give the player the feeling that the results have significantly different magnitude. That means, if you already get a usable benefit on a bad result, you expect an amazing benefit on a good result. That's hard to design in a way that both players feel treated fairly, which is a huge design problem in itself, even without gamble cards. Honestly, stuff like Element Dragon is the closest you come to a balanced gamble-like effect. But from a player psychology perspective, which one of those two effects is the "worse" one? Do they feel like there is significant difference between them? No, but that's essentially the only acceptable boundry for a simple multi-option card effect without feeling underpowered or broken. And even then, most players probably wouldn't even go for it because in competitive play, you'd rather have a card that specializes in the effect you actually want, so that it can be more potent and consistent. Which, again, is a thing of competitive play in any card game (and any other competitive game tbh) and not just a YGO thing
Some saw play in duel links because of one of sartorius skills, master of destiny, which makes you first 3 coin toss to always be heads. People would use them on cup of ace, ms. judge and desperado barrel dragon, and using head judging as well to disrupt. Because it was "too strong" they had to give the skill big requirements (has to have 7 coin toss cards with different names not including ed, cant draw a card on your first draw phase) and semi limited head judging, which clashed with cup of ace that is also semi limited. And way back in the day during the battle focused meta, joey had a skill called "lucky is on my side", if he had 1000 or less lp, all his coin tosses would be heads, so people would use sand gambler and time wizard to clean the board.
As someone who played Hearthstone. MCT was a staple in a lot of decks and even a great card in arena play until it was put into the wild format. Which it’s still probably really good there. As if you took any good deathrattle minions (monsters that have an effect when they die). It’s not a game ender in non-arena formats it would just give you good advantage. Still a great effect. Definitely good to get it off the main ladder
An idea of a gamble card for a boss monster. Heads: Have your opponent send monsters they control in the same column as this card to the GY. Tails: Target 1 monster your opponent controls in the same column as this card; Destroy it.
Graceful and Skull dice were fucking broken in the anime. Instead of adding or subtracting attack, they multiply or divide attack respectively. This does, however, make rolling a 1 completely useless instead of just almost completely useless
I'm actually a little surprised that Twin Barrel and Desperado Barrel Dragon didn't show up in this video at all given they were popular gamble cards, too.
Mc tech being considered a banned card blindsided me. Wild isn’t quite a ban list, it’s just there to allow new cards to see experimentation without having to compete with old decks. The only card that’s actually been banned in wild is the warlock quest card in wild because it worked so well with previous self-damage cards that you consistently could kill the opponent turn 6 or 7
I like the concept of gamble cards but I've never seen them implemented well. I think if they released a monster card that had an effect on grave that allowed you to draw 1 card once per turn whenever you got a bad result of a gamble effect would be a decent start for support. A far more interesting card would be a field that allowed you to turn any effect into a gamble for the effect to actually work. Once per turn of course. The controller of the effect would flip a coin and call it. If they call it right the effect works normally. If they call it wrong the effect changes to lose 500 lp or something minor.
I recently build a ritual beasts deck in duel links and I found out that RB is kinda difficult to learn compared to other decks and it made me wonder are there any other more complicated decks in yu gi oh ? top 10 hardest decks to play maybe ?
I think a sort of "Remote Mind Control" card would be nice. Equip this card to a monster and take control of it. From then on, you can use said monster as if you own it. Whenever you would change stance, attack, or initiate the effect of said monster card, guess if the result of a die roll is odd or even. If guessed correctly, the action proceeds, otherwise this card is destroyed and control of the monster is returned to the player who had previously owned it. I hope that makes sense, I don't even play yugioh just sounds like a fun "obedience" mechanic thing
Just like Geminis, thave a restriction without the power to justify it, only with them also going more in the opposite direction with the negative Effect.
Graceful Dice and Skull Dice would be absurd if they had their anime effects, where instead of being (Attack +/- (100 x Dice Roll)) it was (Attack x/÷ Dice Roll). Which basically means that everyone should have been rolling the dice cards in the anime because of how ridiculously good a 5/6 chance to make your monster unbeatable was.
2:24 Just one thing - Sixth sense always does what you want it to do (either of the effects), no matter what your opponent does unless he counters the activation. With Mass Control Tech, if your opponent plays around it or just doesn't have a game plan that puts lots of minions on the field, you really just get an understated body. So Sixth sense is a lot stronger than MCT.
It was just a comparison, but I don't think MCTech is as weak as you say. It's still a 3 mana 3/3. The threat alone means that your opponent can't over commit, even if you don't have him in your hand. And against aggro decks, you can drop him on the board for tempo (even if your opponent doesn't have 4 or more minions), or against control decks, find a good time to drop him so that your opponent will be forced to spend resources in some way to get rid of him or perhaps use him to potentially bait out a secret
@@Mugsi If your best play against aggro on turn 3 is to drop a 3/3 without anything, you've probably already lost in the current state of the game. Baiting out a secret isn't something you need MCT for, you can do that with any minion. And sure, it can work against control, if it's a control deck that goes wide which is far from all of them. And even then you're banking on RNG entirely. Chances are also your opponent will just be able to remove the threat if they play control. Now sure, you made him use one more ressource, but if your opponent who's running a control deck already has 4 threats on the board AND ressources to spare, you're probably not in great shape. MCT is nice for clips or the occasional epic moment, but it's far from consistently being the best or one of the best choices. It often takes up a spot that you'd be better off filling otherwise.
Have a friend who thought the "garbage"' cards I collected were worthless. Challenged me to "make him sweat" using only "non-meta" cards. Boy did he eat his words. Dice Jar is practically busted with That Six!. Due to both players rolling, you have two different dice you can affect. And because you merely need to roll higher than your opponent, you can easily rig the dice roll. And a funny quirk of rulings means that if you roll the same number on both dice you have another roll, meaning that you can use That Six!'s effct again. Suddenly, you go from a 1-in-6 of rolling a 6, with a 1-in-6 of your opponent rolling a 6... So effectively a 5/36 chance you deal 6k and 5/36 that you take 6k... And That Six! makes it all disappear. Th maajor trick is understanding how to manipulate the rolls correctly, but you can change a startling amount of different rolls to cause 6k damage or a reroll. Which in turn leaves you with only three "loser" rolls. Where you roll a 2 and they roll a 3 or 5, and where you roll a 4 and they roll a 5. Everything else is either a reroll, 6k damage to them, or a pity damage to them (mostly to negate their own 6 to prevent you from taking massive damage). My deck featured cards like Spear Cretin and Book of Moon. He very quickly learned to fear both "garbage" cards and gamble cards both.
I have a question for ygo players about time wizard Would its gamble effect be more worth it if instead of destroying monsters it was Heads: you are able to attack twice this turn Tails: you arent allowed to attack this turn
I hope Roulette Barrel gets mentioned in next video, I destroyed so many Jinzo, Spirit Reaper and level 4 monsters with it, for free; some even crashed into its great defense. Great monster at the start of chaos era as people needed useful light monsters.
on the topic of the arcana force monsters, I swear they're bugged in duel links. I have only ever once witnessed them naturally land on heads once ever. Even when the cpu uses the cards, they just always land on tails which both made farming the cards a hilarious breeze, but also made using them for some of the challenges an eternal nightmare especially since I didn't have the card that lets you jsut choose if your card is heads or tails.
Mind control tech is actually pretty tame when it comes to hearthstone cards. Shifter Zerus can literally turn into any monster in the game and Yogg-Saron can cast any spell in the game.
Right, but he brought up MCTech because he was talking about gamble cards where the results are either extraordinary or good. MCTech met that criteria. Shifer Zerus can be a dead card and doesn't belong in a lot of decks due to the lack of consistency. It's not even used in many control decks. And Yogg-Saron can straight up kill you, too, haha
All this talk about random chance made think about the Gambler trainer in Pokémon Stadium 1 & 2 whose strategy revolved almost entirely on one hit K.O. moves, which normally only have a 30% accuracy. However, since it's the cpu, if let any of his Pokémon stick around long enough he was going to land one. I'll never forget one time in Stadium 2 when his Lapras' Focus Band, an item that has a 10% chance of letting you survive any attack, activated *three times in a row* and I ate a Horn Drill because of it.
IIRC in the anime Graceful Dice and Skull Dice were multipliers-I.e. you would multiply or divide the monster’s attack by the number rolled. I’m not super familiar w the TCG and I’m aware of how annoying the math would get esp for Skull Dice but I think that effect would make those cards actually somewhat viable… at the very least for graceful dice as even doubling or tripling atk seems decent
I'd love a gamble archtype that actually had some real clutch plays but even for not getting said gamble to pay off still had some method of not just failing. Because High Risk, Low Reward, ruined by a single piece of interuption or even by their own effects isn't a good way to handle card design.
I use a Nurse Burn deck that uses gamble cards. The Paths of Destiny, since my opponent's lose 2000 LP no matter what they flip and Tri-and-Guess, but if you're extra deck is all links, you guarantee your opponent will have the most of whatever you call and will take 3000.
There should be a Time Wizard spell card with the same name and effects (also counting fusion/special summon) since this is how Joey was able to use it.
Funnily enough the old chess Archfiend monster deck is my main deck. I lose all the time, but I still play it for the fun of having that dice roll sometimes pop out when the opponent discovers that their monster's effect does target mine.
I love gambling effects on games, I hate that Konami is scared of doing actually good gambling cards and meta players in games are too boring to gamble.
My issue with gambling cards is that their rewards are most of the time not even worth the high risk. I guess thats Konami's way of telling kids that gambling is bad 😂
I can tell you a gamble deck was actually pretty decent back in the synchro era. Not competitive good of course but good if you're fighting random decks online. I had blind destruction, needle wall, fairy box, ordeal of a traveler, sasuke samari number 4, and so on. I basically focused my attention on gamble cards that could be used more than once a turn and i would have about 4 on the field at a time so the odds of me getting at least one positive effect was high. There was a few games where I called the coin toss right about 80 percent of the time and needle wall/ blind destruction would destroy important monsters that my opponent summoned. Pretty sure they thought i was cheating on those instances lol. Now they are pretty garbage cause of all the negates and monsters that are immune to card effects. If they made a card that allowed gamble effects to bypass card protections and was also very annyoing to get rid of then gamble decks might be viable again when playing non competitive. I'd say the only benefit to a gamble card now is that your opponent has to negate the card before the gamble. They cant wait to see if its a positive or negative effect. So if you have a gamble card that destroys an opponents monster and that monster can also negate but doesnt have any card protections they have to make decision. Negate and play it safe or save the negate and hope for the negative effect.
Granted, I only did kitchen table play back in the day, and not very much. Maybe 20 games since I pulled Time Wizard in a booster, if that many. But I'd heard somewhere that coins landed on tails slightly more often than heads - so I always called tails. And was always right. ....I probably still have that quarter lying around somewhere, I should dig it out
Barrel Dragon is my favorite gamble card. The couple of lower level ones are cool and all but a full on Barrel Dragon archetype would be so fucking cool.
I’ve got a video idea for you if you need one: Top 10 TCG-Exclusive Cards/archetypes. You could do OCG Exclusives too but that’d be a much bigger project.
I wouldnt say gamble cards "failed". They were meant to be fun and gimmicky, so in that regard, they succeeded. I just think they needed more "feast or famine" cards like dice jar, that could either win or lose the game.
![Coin Toss and Dice Roll Mechanics - Failed Cards and Mechanics in YuGiOh [Part 2 of 2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0GukCyQypW0/mqdefault.jpg)
![Coin Toss and Dice Roll Mechanics - Failed Cards and Mechanics in YuGiOh [Part 2 of 2]](/img/tr.png)
It's very wierd that the archfiends are based on chess pieces and have random effects, considering that chess has no random element whatsoever.
They’re DEMONS
Did you expect fairness?
XD
The Knight I can somewhat understand, as its movement is random in comparison to the other pieces, but I don't see why the others would have randomness attached to them. I could think of a few different ways to make a chess-themed archetype that would reflect their movements and abilities and maybe do it based on column placement instead. Like the Knight can attack directly if you call a heads or tails right, but if the Rook is adjacent to the King, and the King is targeted for an attack, then the Rook can make itself the target (castling the King and Rook), or the Bishop can't be targeted for an attack or by effects by cards it shares a column with. The Queen could be a boss monster, and the King would either be hard support that has a negative if it's ever destroyed, or it just summons Pawn tokens. Because I'd like to think that a Chess-Themed deck would be a Link deck, since board positioning is important in both Chess and in Link decks.
@@dudebladeX Rook would probably have pretty high defense as well. Rook, King, and Queen could probably also have an effect to change columns (reflecting their ability to move horizontally in chess), with the King only being able to move to adjacent columns (only being able to move one space).
Yup, you would also expect based on that that the card Checkmate! would be a game ender instead of what it really is.
@@dudebladeX I'd love to see a chess-themed archetype using columns! Maybe they could have effects where they can switch columns, even moving regular monsters into the extra monster zone or spell/trap card zone, all based on the movement patterns of their chess piece.
Perhaps they'd also have powerful removal/negation effects, but only have them applicable to spaces they can attack in chess. They could also have protection from attacks/effects from certain columns based on chess rules.
I love gamble cards. They’re so inconsistent, but you feel so prime for pulling off their effects.
Same.
Which is why I still rock a Morphtronic deck.
The correct ones tho the only gamble card I'll play is Orgoth the relentless
69 likes confirmed
Also fully agree
DUELTAINING ORGOTH is my passion
XD
fuck Kaiba and his Barrel Dragon in the game power of chaos! Good old days playing that game
It's so inconsistent Bandit Keith and Sartorius have to rig the coin toss via skill in DL LOL.
didn't they also cheat in the manga?
@@xCorvus7x Pretty much. Bandit Keith is a known cheater but Sartorius had supernatural means of cheating as he is pretty much able to read the future and pretty much get the outcome he wants every time. He won a duel in one turn using this lol
@@zeospark9715 From which Yugioh part is Sartorius?
@@xCorvus7x He's from Yugioh GX. He's the main antagonist of the second season
@@zeospark9715 his Japanese voice actor also voices DIO.
It's crazy how all of these failed mechanic cards were staple cards in my irl deck in 2009-2011
In a nutshell.
No one likes relying on chance to have an effect as underwhelming and very basic.
Most gamble effects are high risk low reward. Arcana Force is notorious for this kind of terrible gamble effects.
It's telling that when me and a friend challenged each other to make a gambled based archetype. My idea was simply "craps but your able to load your dice by paying 1000 life points"
@@DarkSymphony777 Fixing the gambles makes it possible to use the gamble for themeing but it essentially just removes the entire gamble idea and just makes it "they have a fixed cost to use their effects." Really the better idea is just to make it so that the gamble cards have two different but still beneficial effects that make it less of an all or nothing mechanic and more one that makes you need to think on your feet and improvise with the gamble results. Like say their play starter you flip a coin and if it's Heads you get to immediately SS an archetype member from the hand, if it's Tails you get to search. Or alternatively if you did something like Sky Striker where there is a single okay effect and getting lucky on the gamble makes it better. Say you have an archetype member with an effect where you target a monster in your GY and roll a six-sided die, and if the Level is the same as your die roll you can SS the monster but otherwise you just add it back to your hand.
I feel like the best way to use gamble effect would be to have two (or potentially more if you use dice) positive effects, but the result depends on what you rolled. Best example would be
-Heads : Destroy all monsters your opponent controls
-Tails : destroy all spell and traps your opponent controls
There would still be a gamble and in some circumstances you could gain nothing due to a bad roll (like in this example, you roll Tails whilst your opponent has no backrow but a full board of monsters), but it would at least be playable rather than "Head :this card gains 500 Atk until the end phase. Tails : discard your entire hand, burn your deck and then kill your parents" like it is nos
Because YOU don't have anime plot armor and never will.
The hell you talking about, Pokemon TCG is literally this 🤣
I always thought Dark Master Zorc was a great example of a gamble effect. 5/6 chance of something good happening with only a 1/6 chance of something bad.
Too bad it was stuck on a level 8 ritual monster.
Fitting that Proton Blast would force all the coins to be treated as Heads
Totally the kind of stunt Bandit Keith would pull
Also a good gamble back in the day was fairly box,people was so afraid to atk your monster with it on the field until they remove it first.
Progression series 😉
Oh man, Fairy Box was such a fun card. Throw in in a rock deck with Stone Statue of the Aztecs and Fault Zone and you could pull off a OHK on a heads. Plus it's cost was just low enough for you to hold onto it until you didn't need it, kinda like Messenger of Peace.
I'd say it might be the card he was referring to at the end of the video. Even if it's not, it should definitely appear in part 2. It doesn't matter whether about the luck, mostly, because your opponent will likely never attack unless it's directly. So it's basically like a 500 life point maintenance cost infinite threatening roar.
Fairy box is interesting because it technically force enemy to gamble & it have continuous property.. losing the gamble once is not that bad because there's next chance (next attack).. its extremely different with things like arcana force in which losing the gamble once means shooting your own foot..
A hand trap that forcing an opponent to toss a coin when they SS, and the SS get negated if they call wrong with effect linger until a summon is negated is sounds like a great idea simply because your opponent doesnt have the consistency of baiting the negation
Also maxx c retrain that effect on SS depend on dice result, 1,2,3 draw 4 discard or lost the lingering effect, 5 nothing, 6 lost the lingering effect
not traditional gambling effect with coins/dice, but a friend of mine enjoys pulling Ordeal of a Traveler on me. until in my Dragunity deck, i manage to pull out Sigma and his invincibility to all effects
The only character that makes gambel cards work is the one and only Joey, everyone else has to cheat to win
Is it really cheating if you control destiny (Sartorius) or your Millennium item manipulates luck in your favor (Yami Yugi)?
Kaiba didn’t cheat, minus the one time he threatened to kill himself, but he valued his brothers safety over his pride as a duelist: which is commendable in its own right, even if it’s dirty.
@@a1joryj He's also an idiot. At least in the manga, before Yugi pulls the living arrow fusion BS, he specifically calls attention to the negate attack in his hand as a just in case(likely for mirror force). He could have blocked the fatal attack and won legitimately.
Just think yugi and magical hats.
@@kyuubinaruto17 the manga is an entirely different animal-honest to god I consider it completely separate from the anime, same way that the GX manga is different.
I remember back in the day I had a Graceful Dice spell in my deck and a die that went 2,4,8,16,32,64 and every time I would point out "LOOK the card just says six sided die it does say it is required to be 1-6"
Dark master zorc and the barrel dragons are what I think of when I think “good” gamble cards, because they do something more proactive to board state and have big bodies to swing games.
i played blowback dragon HARD back in the day. the repeatable 50/50 chance to blow something up every turn was great.
@@ShinkuDragon Hell yeah dude! Playing older yugioh formats its crazy how that effect has gotten better retroactively because of how much we value targeted removal now.
Plus Dark Master Zorc only had a 1 in 6 chance of backfiring, while its best effect has a 1 in 3 chance of going off. It's an effect that's worth the chance. Blowback Dragon meanwhile doesn't have a drawback if you fail the coin toss.
Also Gatling Dragon since it's guaranteed to destroy something as long as you get a single heads.
One of the most fun decks I played was Toon Barrel Dragon in Duel Links. This was before the Three Star Demotion skill nerf of course. I think it also used Wattcine to gain life back after hitting the opponent with Sanga of the Thunder to activate the skill again.
Coins and dice might be the more iconic gamble effects, but there's another tool for generating semi-random chance. Two, in fact, one for each player: the decks.
Neo Spacian Glow Moss, Hazy Flame Sphynx, Conscription and Illusion Balloons are just a few examples I remember.
The Spyrals and Sylvans are both archetypes that feature this form of gambling.
"Picking random card from opponent's hand" is this Gamble too?
@@Kawaiisikkusu I'd say yes. You're gambling that you hit a card they need. For the other way round, A Hero Emerges is definitely gambling, but it's easy to rig the odds.
You've also reminded me of the "Reveal cards from your deck and have the opponent select one randomly" effects.
I like to think that just drawing your hand is a gamble. Even cards like Lightsworn are gables with their deck discarding effect. However I won't include these in the gable archtype cards since it doesn't have the spirit like dice roll or coin toss. Dice rolling and coin tossing are gable because you either get it or you don't. As a mechanic it does fail largely because they didn't balance all the cards with only three being broken like Sixth Sense, The World, and Snipe Hunter.
Cardians too. They literally have a card called "super all in"
@@giftedfox4748 That's a fair interpretation and the line does get a little blurred. I think betting between a great effect or a mediocre effect is still gambling but obviously the all-or-nothing effects are more cut and dry.
Personally, I think effects where whether or how they work are determined by the reveal of an unknown card are pretty solidly in the realm of gambling.
The example of Sylvans I gave are kind of on the borderline; The more situational effects could misfire but, like drawing, it is based on the consistency of your deckbuilding.
Lightsworn could fall in the same category as Sylvans but I guess I've just seen too many Lumina-centric versions where the self-milling is just used to give her more options rather than to trigger effects.
Ironic that the archetype based on chess has luck based mechanics behind in their card design
DEMON CHESS
Because OF COURSE
XD
Yup, and you would think Checkmate! would be a game ender based on that instead of what it actually does.
Anime:' trust the Heart of the card'
Modern ygo: special summon your deck
spot on.
@@queenbrightwingthe3890 it’s really not
@@someguyonyoutube4147 Say that to Tearlament, Spright, Branded Despia, Baronne De Fleur, Synchros, Rikka, P.U.N.K, Mathemechanicals, Rhongo, Exosister, Trickstar, and you can go on from there.
I haven't played Yu-Gi-Oh! In years, but your videos still keep me entertained and informed. Keep it up
This channel was instrumental in helping me get back in the game. Now I just need to resist the addiction better than last time.
BTW the Revolver Dragon(Barrel Dragon for TCG) is my favorite Boss monster since Metal Raider set.
A retained ver. Also good. But not enough piece to support it.
Desperado barrel dragon was meta a few times in duel links, its deck even had to be heavilly nerfed to get him out of the meta list.
I absolutely loved playing Revolver Dragon's archetype in Duel Links, I never managed to build the optimal decklist since it required too many resources and I just ended up building Shiranui + Nethersoul Dragon 'cause I accidentally ended up with almost all the required cards lol
@@rajkanishu Back when 3 star demotion was still unnerfed it was really easy with toon barrel dragon
I remember when I made custom cards I came up with a boss monster that used a dice roll but had only positive effects. Even though none of them were all that broken (draw 1 card, burn your opponent for 1000, gain 1000 LP, pop one card on the field, etc.) everyone kept insisting that I had to make some of the effects negative, because that's how dice roll cards worked.
Are you the guy I dueled with my custom Crystal Beast link? Because I do remember a deck lime this where it was "good effect all the time, and if you get 5-6 the effect twice as good", as in draw 2 cards, pop 2 cards, etc. Most were fine in the vacuum, but generated TOO much advantage when put together. In either case, recommend making the effects work like this: 1 effect fizzles out, 2-4 effect goes through as normal, 5-6 effect activates twice. That way there is still a small risk of wasting a resource that keeps the cards in check but without making them entirely unplayable.
Or just a NOTHING HAPPENS effect!
XD
@@joanaguayoplanell4912 Crystal Beast LINK??
I wrote up a few but never expected to hear of someone else...
Snipe Hunter is balanced around its cost and the risk of nothing happening, thus making you waste that cost. I think people might've had a point in that if they're all positive, then it has a major potential to be massively broken. A "Nothing Happens" Effect would have made it balanced overnight.
@@Ramsey276one recently renamed from "Neo Rainbow Dragon" to "Crystal Savior St. Joan" in honor of the first fusion monster I ever got, LIGHT Fairy (formerly Dragon), 800 Atk Link 1, requires any 1 Crystal Beast monster and has this effect:
"Must be link summoned. Cannot be used as link material unless all other materials are 'Crystal Beast' monsters. If this card is link summomed, you can add one 'Ancient City - Rainbow Ruins' from your deck to your hand, and if you control no other cards, take 1 'Crystal Beast' monster from your deck and 1 from your GY with different names and place them in the spell/trap zone as continous spells. You can only use this effect of 'Crystal Savior St. Joan' once per turn. If you control an 'Ultimate Crystal' monster, this card's original Atk becomes 2800"
In place of the Atk effect, its used to have "If you link summon using this card as material, you can place the other materials on the spell/trap zone as continous spells instead of sending them to the GY". This effect was removed because it turned Bonds+Beacon into a full power Apollousa, Rainbow Ruins with 5 backrow negates live, while going hand neutral AND without any restrictions one further plays.
Now you need to have Crystal Tree alongside these two cards and do a very specific combo to get the same results, wich leaves you much more vulnerable to interruptions, and you go -1 in hand size at least (and that combo is already possible to do without the link, only you need to draw into Rainbow Ruins as well, so it should be fine).
I also made a custom fusion card that used to be either an archetypal Dragon's Mirror or a Brilliant Fusion, and ALSO got nerfed into the ground by turning it into a Thunder Dragon Fusion clone, but that locks you out of doing ANYTHING for the rest of the turn, except attacking and setting cards. As compensation, it was given this GY effect:
"If an 'Ultimate Crystal' monster you control would tribute itself or banish cards from the GY to activate it's effect, you can banish this card from the GY instead, and if you do, the activated effect becomes 'Shuffle all cards your opponent controls and in their GY into the deck'." And just in case, I slapped a shared hard once per turn on the card.
The biggest problem with Gamble cards is that usually the negative effect is much worse than the positive effect is good
Yea like the positive effect isn't even game winning but the negative effect makes you lose on the spot lol
As someone that used to play casual YGO when I was younger but fell off (while still keeping an interest), I would love for you to do an archetype series where you explain something along the lines of:
1. What is the general goal of the archetype that Konami wanted to do/what it became (if they differ)
2. What the archetype was like to play when it first came out
3. What the archetype is like to play nowadays.
I'm quite interested in looking it up but without the knowledge of what exists and what playstyle it brings, it's become quite a gate of entry. Anyways, just a suggestion I would definitely watch if you decide to do it.
Rank10YGO´s Archetype Archive got you covered.
I think something people forget about Jirai Gumo is that you don't have to attack with it. It isn't Berserk Gorilla. It can just stand there and be a better wall for you than Giant Soldier of Stone or Mystical Elf, in an era of the game when defense position walls were decent inclusions to a deck.
Very informative. I always enjoy these videos. It’s nice learning about non-competitions cards and gaining appreciation for the casual stuff from back in the day.
Duel Links: “life points don’t matter, even in early Yugioh”
Also Duel Links: “Jirai Gumo was bad cuz it cost life points….”
FYI Jirai Gumo was a borderline staple…
Did we watch the same vid?
"Not half bad."
Shoutout to Cup of Ace. Don’t forget that there’s a trap Appropriate that lets you draw whenever your opponent draws, so Cup of Ace’s negative effect becomes not as negative as a result.
Wow tis is a glorious day to be early on a video of TheDuelLogs...awesome!!!
I remember back in the day I played Yugioh I had a gamble deck just for fun. I pissed off so many competitive players with that deck. Gatling Dragon, Barrel Dragon, Second Coin Toss, Fairy Box and many other gamble cards, even some bad ones like Time Wizard, it was a blast. Looking forward to part 2 of this video!
got me thinking, with Archfiend, there could of been a cool gimmick where the first time you play one on the field you gain access to 3 dice. You roll those dice and they become your "tokens" to use their effects however you have to use all 3 results before you can reroll. So say you roll a 2, 3 and 6, you have to use all those dice on Archfiend effects before re-rolling or you could have a field effect active that allows you to sacrifice 1k Lifepoints for each dice you wish to reroll, but you can only use the effect once per turn.
Basically you can use 1-3k Lifepoints to reroll 1-3 dice but you can only activate it on a once per turn basis. So you have to choose whether to reroll all or just one based on result you are aiming for.
Or maybe have the dice roll effects stack with each other. Have each Archfiend have its 2-3 die numbers that activate the effect, but if you have another Archfiend on the field with a different 2-3 numbers, rolling any of the listed numbers will activate the effects of both.
And yet the AI usually gets the good rolls most of the time in the videogames. You don't have a safe counter against luck based decks.
Well, loading the AI dices is the only way to make AI Gamble Decks a challenge.
Gamble decks counter themselves usually
In all turn-based RPGs like Pokemon, any chance-based move is always skewed towards the opponent.
Like, it happens more often than not that you miss the same 90% accurate move twice and your opponent PP stalls your 5 PP move with five Protects in a row
@@shawnli4746 Don't remind me of the battle facilities in Pokémon, please
I just recently replayed nightmare troubadour and goddamn
Joey's luck transcends reality itself cause no matter how many times I dueled him. He always got time wizards effect correctly
Roll of Fate from the anime would definitely be a broken staple if it was ever made. It's basically Sixth Sense with it's effects mashed together and is a spell card.
They'd need to nerf it by making it like "the dice roll divided by 2 equals the amount of cards you draw and send from the top of your deck to the graveyard. If you get a 1, lose 500 LP". Or something along those lines.
As a little note, Mind Control Tech is only banned in the Arena Mode in Hearthstone (similar to draft mode, in this case it cannot appear as an option to be drafted), because there it’s a really swingy card that leaves a player angry no matter the outcome. It’s not a card good enough for constructed play.
The most similar example to the Yugioh banlist as it is now it’s the banlist for the Wild Mode, which is a mode where every card can be used (just like in Yugioh), and currently includes 2 cards.
Time wizard could be decent with a fire king/ nephytys engine as they love being destroyed by card effects to pop their abilities, so it could have a somewhat more positive effect
Unchained can also benefit from the negative effect of Time Wizard.
I love these videos. Personally I love making original decks from these 'failed' cards rather than just dumping with the latest meta. But I don't mind losing and enjoy creative deck building as much as playing.
Graceful Dice is one of the most reviled cards of my childhood. Even as a kid I knew it was awful, why would I not just play Rush Recklessly? Rush Recklessly came out first.
Well to he fair Dice affects all of your monsters
Couple of small corrections on Lucky Chance - It's not a once per turn effect, it's a once per chain effect. Which would make it downright broken if any one coin gamble monsters existed that could use their effects multiple times per turn. It also doesn't do a seperate coin toss, it uses the coin flip from the monster effect - which means you can use it to call the bad option on the flip (e.g. Tails on Time Wizard), garunteeing you some sort of positive effect either way it goes (and if you have somehow have multiple copies of it out, it can garuntee you drawing a card either way if you call Heads with one and Tails with the other).
It's still not a good card, but that's entirely because there's no good one coin gamble monsters to use it with. If there were better cards that it could synergise with, it would be really good support for a gamble deck.
high risk no reward at all are how described almost all gamble card in yu gi oh.
I feel like Jirai Gumo would be like Solemn Judgment if people played the older version of the game like they played the current version. Half your LP is worth beating over your opponent's cards and keeping advantage since you only need 1 LP to win, as long as you wipe out your opponent's.
Dark Elf does the same job, too.
Lower ATK, but hey, waifu card.
People do play goat format nowadays pretty seriously and while Solemn Judgment is played I don't think I've ever seen Jirai Gumo in decklists. I've never seen 2002 format tournaments so who knows, maybe it can have its use.
With how much removal there was even back then, I dont see jirai gumo being that good even if they didn't care too much about life points. Judgement can negate a critical play and win you the game on the spot. Jirai at best is a big beatstick with a huge risk everytime it attacks
You don’t have to attack also
My favorite type of cards in yugioh. I remember always having a Gamble card in every deck I used just for fun :D
Skull Archfiend plus two copies of “That Six” basically makes it immune to card effects.
Not really
1. Skull archfiend only has target protection. Any effect that doesn't target still works on it and
2. Destroying one of your traps is also an option.
And ultimately, using 3 cards including a tribute monster for nothing but a 2.5k beater with a shaky target protection and no further effect? There's 2 card combos that give you a 4k beater with true target protection that also can't be destroyed by target protection and deals double piercing battle damage, and even THAT is considered not good enough.
I actually have both a coin toss and a dice gimmick deck, there isn't enough support however so they're pretty inconsistent.
The win condition for the dice deck is basically Dice Jar + some other burn damage like Hinezumi Hanabi, supported by That Six.
The coin toss deck is all about Desperado Barrel Dragon and Proton Blast + some generic level 7 synchros. It's also a deck that can actually use Dueltaining.
So fitting that gambling is today's theme (personal reasons...); as someone that hates rng games I still like ygo despite having a random chance to draw you a good hand (at least manipulable with deck construction)
Merry Christmas, and thanks for these interesting videos
Really enjoying whenever you put out essay-like vids!
Shows image of Head Judging has flashbacks to Desperado meta in Duel Links
Gave me an idea - Gambler's Ruin Field Spell - If a Monster card involves a dice roll or coin toss, it gains 1000 ATK and DEF. Quick Effect: if an effect that includes a dice roll or coin toss is activated, after the coin toss or dice roll, you can change the effect to Banish the top card from your deck facedown instead. Once per turn: If Gambler's Ruin is in your Graveyard, you can toss a coin, if you call it correctly, add Gambler's Ruin to your hand from the GY.
The DuelLogs: For gamble effects to be good you need to also have a positive effect on the negative results.
Me: Then it's not really gambling is it?
Basically, gamble cards are only useful in Duel Links, where skills can tip chance in your favor.
My all-time favorite gamble card is Orgoth the Relentless. He's kinda hard to get on the field, and his effect isn't the best, but he just feel so damn powerful, especially in Duel Links with Devlin's skill
While i am cautious about using gamble cards that have steep cost, I still have some fun when playing with some these cards regardless of their risky cost. Back then, i love using snipe hunter and dark master zorc's effect to rid of some troublesome cards that gives me some annoyance. Same for some for more risky yet rewarding cards can be very fun to play. While I do agree that the gamble cards has so many cons than pros and can either make or break the game, many players do still play these purely for the excitement for it when lady luck is on their side.
I bet that the staple gamble card that was used for a long time is Cup of Ace. Half the time, it's a costless Pot of Desires, and the other half, it's a Gift of Greed. People would be willing to take that risk, especially in a mill deck, where getting rid of your opponent's deck would be the main goal of the deck. Though, I think that the best way to make a gamble deck would be to either have a beneficial effect on a dice roll going your way, or not having anything happen if it didn't go your way, like Snipe Hunter. Getting a 1 or a 6 isn't a major detriment, it just means you paid the cost and didn't get anything out of it. But pulling off Snipe Hunter means that you get to blow up one of your opponent's cards. It's balanced around the cost of the card, not around the effects of not pulling off the gamble. If there were more cards like that, then gamble cards might actually see more play.
As someone who has a crazy amount of luck on almost any game, I like gamble cards that have the obvious very good effect but equally bad effect so it is a true test of luck. It's sad that some of these cards have awful set up or just meh effects for winning the gamble
I Want to see an archetype that gambles in a way that has effects that are just as good as they are bad, just high risk high reward and support so that "loading the dice/cheating the flip" is more of a helpful option than a must for the deck to get anywhere
Funny you mention Hearthstone. For a long period of time Yogg Saaron was played in a tier 0 deck. Its effect was cast a random spell for every spell you've cast in this game. Needless to say, the Hearthstone professional scene became the biggest joke it had ever been until recently when another even more ridiculous gamble card was released, Deck of Lunacy. Its effect was to replace all spells in your deck with random ones that cost 3 more but retain their original cost. Hearthstone as an esport has been a long-running meme due to the card design direction.
I like speedroid wheel for this reason, a gamble card that always summons something
Please hurry with Part 2 my world is lost without it 🤣
I think their idea is that if the losing effect is equal and opposite to the winning effect, the card is a net zero. However, because using the card is a -1, the result is that they are a net -1.
To make a chance card worth using, it needs to either:
1. Have a good effect that overwhelming outweighs the bad effect
2. Replace the bad effect with a mediocre effect (or simply do nothing and have the inherent -1 be the downside)
3. Have a chance between two different good effects
Examples of those could be:
1. Coin flip to either draw 4 or discard 1
2. Coin flip to either draw 2 or do nothing
3. Coin flip to banish a card from either the opponent's hand or field
That giant animated dice was cool.
Took me years to realize those early Archfiend cards were a play on Chess pieces; Terror (King), Infernal (Queen), Shadow (Knight), Dark (Bishop), Des (Rook), Vile (Pawn).
Des (Nuts)
So... The Joey Wheeler Archetype.
In actual competitive cardboard mode, most of these cards are awful but I've gotten many wins in Master Duel playing the All Gamble Deck. A lot of opponents see you summon a coin flip monster, activate 2nd Coin Toss and just scoop out of sheer annoyance.
To be fair I lose at least as often as I win with it but boy is it fun when it works. Plus it's easier to accept a loss when you can say it was all up to a roll of the dice. Lol
The question is, could this particular gimmick ever even have been successful (Outside of accidentally making them all broken like sixth sense) ?
Yugioh is heavily reliant on consistency, and gamble effects fly in the face of that.
It's not just Yugioh. Every cardgame has immense problems with making gamble cards usable in a way that isn't broken and, importantly, are on some level fun to play against.
For example, while I haven't played Hearthstone in years, one of the common critisism about the game as a whole was that there are too many gamble effects that had essentially no downside. Most of them would, at the very worst, give you a brick, but that's still a card you get.
As the video points out, gamble cards have to be beneficial on a bad result to make people consider them at all. As a designer, if you want your gambling card to feel distinct, you also need to give the player the feeling that the results have significantly different magnitude. That means, if you already get a usable benefit on a bad result, you expect an amazing benefit on a good result. That's hard to design in a way that both players feel treated fairly, which is a huge design problem in itself, even without gamble cards.
Honestly, stuff like Element Dragon is the closest you come to a balanced gamble-like effect. But from a player psychology perspective, which one of those two effects is the "worse" one? Do they feel like there is significant difference between them? No, but that's essentially the only acceptable boundry for a simple multi-option card effect without feeling underpowered or broken. And even then, most players probably wouldn't even go for it because in competitive play, you'd rather have a card that specializes in the effect you actually want, so that it can be more potent and consistent. Which, again, is a thing of competitive play in any card game (and any other competitive game tbh) and not just a YGO thing
Some saw play in duel links because of one of sartorius skills, master of destiny, which makes you first 3 coin toss to always be heads.
People would use them on cup of ace, ms. judge and desperado barrel dragon, and using head judging as well to disrupt.
Because it was "too strong" they had to give the skill big requirements (has to have 7 coin toss cards with different names not including ed, cant draw a card on your first draw phase) and semi limited head judging, which clashed with cup of ace that is also semi limited.
And way back in the day during the battle focused meta, joey had a skill called "lucky is on my side", if he had 1000 or less lp, all his coin tosses would be heads, so people would use sand gambler and time wizard to clean the board.
2:14 a good example of this would be how Magic does gamble effects.
As someone who played Hearthstone. MCT was a staple in a lot of decks and even a great card in arena play until it was put into the wild format. Which it’s still probably really good there. As if you took any good deathrattle minions (monsters that have an effect when they die). It’s not a game ender in non-arena formats it would just give you good advantage. Still a great effect. Definitely good to get it off the main ladder
An idea of a gamble card for a boss monster.
Heads: Have your opponent send monsters they control in the same column as this card to the GY.
Tails: Target 1 monster your opponent controls in the same column as this card; Destroy it.
Graceful and Skull dice were fucking broken in the anime. Instead of adding or subtracting attack, they multiply or divide attack respectively. This does, however, make rolling a 1 completely useless instead of just almost completely useless
"The Archfiend archtype that was based on chess pieces"
WAIT WHAT?!
I'm actually a little surprised that Twin Barrel and Desperado Barrel Dragon didn't show up in this video at all given they were popular gamble cards, too.
Jirai Gumo and Head Judging were actually really good though.. Head Judging is still overpowered.
The gamble In this game Is already high enough with just getting a decent hand to makes us shoot on the foot for other gambling effect
Mc tech being considered a banned card blindsided me. Wild isn’t quite a ban list, it’s just there to allow new cards to see experimentation without having to compete with old decks. The only card that’s actually been banned in wild is the warlock quest card in wild because it worked so well with previous self-damage cards that you consistently could kill the opponent turn 6 or 7
I don’t even play yugioh, but I watch this channel pretty much everyday anyway
I like the concept of gamble cards but I've never seen them implemented well. I think if they released a monster card that had an effect on grave that allowed you to draw 1 card once per turn whenever you got a bad result of a gamble effect would be a decent start for support.
A far more interesting card would be a field that allowed you to turn any effect into a gamble for the effect to actually work. Once per turn of course. The controller of the effect would flip a coin and call it. If they call it right the effect works normally. If they call it wrong the effect changes to lose 500 lp or something minor.
I have fun using arcana force x the light ruler and seeing the effects his seem pretty good because even his bad affect can be really useful
I recently build a ritual beasts deck in duel links and I found out that RB is kinda difficult to learn compared to other decks and it made me wonder are there any other more complicated decks in yu gi oh ?
top 10 hardest decks to play maybe ?
Well... gamble cards wouldn't be gamble cards if they were consistent. In that sense, I guess they can't fail?
I think a sort of "Remote Mind Control" card would be nice. Equip this card to a monster and take control of it.
From then on, you can use said monster as if you own it. Whenever you would change stance, attack, or initiate the effect of said monster card, guess if the result of a die roll is odd or even. If guessed correctly, the action proceeds, otherwise this card is destroyed and control of the monster is returned to the player who had previously owned it.
I hope that makes sense, I don't even play yugioh just sounds like a fun "obedience" mechanic thing
Just like Geminis, thave a restriction without the power to justify it, only with them also going more in the opposite direction with the negative Effect.
Graceful Dice and Skull Dice would be absurd if they had their anime effects, where instead of being (Attack +/- (100 x Dice Roll)) it was (Attack x/÷ Dice Roll). Which basically means that everyone should have been rolling the dice cards in the anime because of how ridiculously good a 5/6 chance to make your monster unbeatable was.
2:24 Just one thing - Sixth sense always does what you want it to do (either of the effects), no matter what your opponent does unless he counters the activation.
With Mass Control Tech, if your opponent plays around it or just doesn't have a game plan that puts lots of minions on the field, you really just get an understated body. So Sixth sense is a lot stronger than MCT.
It was just a comparison, but I don't think MCTech is as weak as you say. It's still a 3 mana 3/3. The threat alone means that your opponent can't over commit, even if you don't have him in your hand. And against aggro decks, you can drop him on the board for tempo (even if your opponent doesn't have 4 or more minions), or against control decks, find a good time to drop him so that your opponent will be forced to spend resources in some way to get rid of him or perhaps use him to potentially bait out a secret
@@Mugsi If your best play against aggro on turn 3 is to drop a 3/3 without anything, you've probably already lost in the current state of the game.
Baiting out a secret isn't something you need MCT for, you can do that with any minion.
And sure, it can work against control, if it's a control deck that goes wide which is far from all of them. And even then you're banking on RNG entirely. Chances are also your opponent will just be able to remove the threat if they play control. Now sure, you made him use one more ressource, but if your opponent who's running a control deck already has 4 threats on the board AND ressources to spare, you're probably not in great shape.
MCT is nice for clips or the occasional epic moment, but it's far from consistently being the best or one of the best choices. It often takes up a spot that you'd be better off filling otherwise.
Merry Christmas duelogs
Have a friend who thought the "garbage"' cards I collected were worthless. Challenged me to "make him sweat" using only "non-meta" cards. Boy did he eat his words.
Dice Jar is practically busted with That Six!. Due to both players rolling, you have two different dice you can affect. And because you merely need to roll higher than your opponent, you can easily rig the dice roll. And a funny quirk of rulings means that if you roll the same number on both dice you have another roll, meaning that you can use That Six!'s effct again.
Suddenly, you go from a 1-in-6 of rolling a 6, with a 1-in-6 of your opponent rolling a 6... So effectively a 5/36 chance you deal 6k and 5/36 that you take 6k... And That Six! makes it all disappear. Th maajor trick is understanding how to manipulate the rolls correctly, but you can change a startling amount of different rolls to cause 6k damage or a reroll. Which in turn leaves you with only three "loser" rolls. Where you roll a 2 and they roll a 3 or 5, and where you roll a 4 and they roll a 5. Everything else is either a reroll, 6k damage to them, or a pity damage to them (mostly to negate their own 6 to prevent you from taking massive damage).
My deck featured cards like Spear Cretin and Book of Moon. He very quickly learned to fear both "garbage" cards and gamble cards both.
I have a question for ygo players about time wizard
Would its gamble effect be more worth it if instead of destroying monsters it was
Heads: you are able to attack twice this turn
Tails: you arent allowed to attack this turn
I honestly like making gambling decks, either arcana force or a general mishmash. But only really for playing with mates.
Sasuke Samurai,was a bitch to deal with the AI.i remember being scared to atk it because the computer always gets the right call.
Ok now time to do a gamble only deck in master duel
Please share your decklist please 😂
I hope Roulette Barrel gets mentioned in next video, I destroyed so many Jinzo, Spirit Reaper and level 4 monsters with it, for free; some even crashed into its great defense. Great monster at the start of chaos era as people needed useful light monsters.
on the topic of the arcana force monsters, I swear they're bugged in duel links. I have only ever once witnessed them naturally land on heads once ever. Even when the cpu uses the cards, they just always land on tails which both made farming the cards a hilarious breeze, but also made using them for some of the challenges an eternal nightmare especially since I didn't have the card that lets you jsut choose if your card is heads or tails.
Mind control tech is actually pretty tame when it comes to hearthstone cards. Shifter Zerus can literally turn into any monster in the game and Yogg-Saron can cast any spell in the game.
Right, but he brought up MCTech because he was talking about gamble cards where the results are either extraordinary or good. MCTech met that criteria. Shifer Zerus can be a dead card and doesn't belong in a lot of decks due to the lack of consistency. It's not even used in many control decks. And Yogg-Saron can straight up kill you, too, haha
All this talk about random chance made think about the Gambler trainer in Pokémon Stadium 1 & 2 whose strategy revolved almost entirely on one hit K.O. moves, which normally only have a 30% accuracy. However, since it's the cpu, if let any of his Pokémon stick around long enough he was going to land one. I'll never forget one time in Stadium 2 when his Lapras' Focus Band, an item that has a 10% chance of letting you survive any attack, activated *three times in a row* and I ate a Horn Drill because of it.
IIRC in the anime Graceful Dice and Skull Dice were multipliers-I.e. you would multiply or divide the monster’s attack by the number rolled. I’m not super familiar w the TCG and I’m aware of how annoying the math would get esp for Skull Dice but I think that effect would make those cards actually somewhat viable… at the very least for graceful dice as even doubling or tripling atk seems decent
I'd love a gamble archtype that actually had some real clutch plays but even for not getting said gamble to pay off still had some method of not just failing. Because High Risk, Low Reward, ruined by a single piece of interuption or even by their own effects isn't a good way to handle card design.
I use a Nurse Burn deck that uses gamble cards. The Paths of Destiny, since my opponent's lose 2000 LP no matter what they flip and Tri-and-Guess, but if you're extra deck is all links, you guarantee your opponent will have the most of whatever you call and will take 3000.
give your editor a raise
There should be a Time Wizard spell card with the same name and effects (also counting fusion/special summon) since this is how Joey was able to use it.
Funnily enough the old chess Archfiend monster deck is my main deck. I lose all the time, but I still play it for the fun of having that dice roll sometimes pop out when the opponent discovers that their monster's effect does target mine.
I love gambling effects on games, I hate that Konami is scared of doing actually good gambling cards and meta players in games are too boring to gamble.
My issue with gambling cards is that their rewards are most of the time not even worth the high risk. I guess thats Konami's way of telling kids that gambling is bad 😂
I can tell you a gamble deck was actually pretty decent back in the synchro era. Not competitive good of course but good if you're fighting random decks online. I had blind destruction, needle wall, fairy box, ordeal of a traveler, sasuke samari number 4, and so on. I basically focused my attention on gamble cards that could be used more than once a turn and i would have about 4 on the field at a time so the odds of me getting at least one positive effect was high.
There was a few games where I called the coin toss right about 80 percent of the time and needle wall/ blind destruction would destroy important monsters that my opponent summoned. Pretty sure they thought i was cheating on those instances lol.
Now they are pretty garbage cause of all the negates and monsters that are immune to card effects. If they made a card that allowed gamble effects to bypass card protections and was also very annyoing to get rid of then gamble decks might be viable again when playing non competitive.
I'd say the only benefit to a gamble card now is that your opponent has to negate the card before the gamble. They cant wait to see if its a positive or negative effect. So if you have a gamble card that destroys an opponents monster and that monster can also negate but doesnt have any card protections they have to make decision.
Negate and play it safe or save the negate and hope for the negative effect.
Granted, I only did kitchen table play back in the day, and not very much. Maybe 20 games since I pulled Time Wizard in a booster, if that many.
But I'd heard somewhere that coins landed on tails slightly more often than heads - so I always called tails. And was always right.
....I probably still have that quarter lying around somewhere, I should dig it out
Hoped Blind Destruction would be covered in this video, because it presents an interesting deck building challenge.
Barrel Dragon is my favorite gamble card. The couple of lower level ones are cool and all but a full on Barrel Dragon archetype would be so fucking cool.
I’ve got a video idea for you if you need one: Top 10 TCG-Exclusive Cards/archetypes. You could do OCG Exclusives too but that’d be a much bigger project.
Flashbacks to the Master Of Destiny Desperado Meta in DL. Nobody misses that shit.
I wouldnt say gamble cards "failed". They were meant to be fun and gimmicky, so in that regard, they succeeded.
I just think they needed more "feast or famine" cards like dice jar, that could either win or lose the game.