Autopsy of failed grow light and test of actual power versus stated power.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 มี.ค. 2019
- I bought an interesting looking grow light on eBay and after buying one I was sent a nearly identical failed unit. Let's take a look at the LED panel and the driver of the failed one to see what happened.
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The IR should have been in series with the UV to ballance it
A diodegonewild comment with only two likes? Impossible!
15:42 visions of being back in school at physics or science lesson... these were the best words to hear in class....
I like the big pictures of the circuit boards. It’s like being right there, with him. :-)
"That's not very good - that's OK ... that's vile. That's OK though"
After watching this I want to see Big Clive build a balanced grow light and share the circuit so we can make our own and stop playing roulette with Chinese iffy circuitry.
Stephen Vowles if you are willing to spend the money, go to IKEA: www.ikea.com/gb/en/products/indoor-gardening/indoor-growing-cultivators/växer-led-bulb-for-cultivation-par30-e27-art-60317483/
10£ 10watt, and I bet that is real watts!
800 lumens.
@@MortenVindingSvendse it is real watts and they're a pretty decent grow light although IKEA's design doesn't allow you to move them any closer using their own equipment on the bar version (the one they actually stock in store), which is annoying. I clocked them at 30,000 lux if you do raise up the plants to a sensible distance which is adequate!
They are also a much more tolerable colour for humans, being mostly white.
T C sounds good. Was actually planning on buying some, since my daughter got some chills. But our local IKEA don’t stock them.
Will buy once I get to a different IKEA
@@MortenVindingSvendse I don't think any branches stock the round ones, I use the long bar ones, they have two screw holes so probably more useful to be honest...they're not cheap though sadly at £29 each!
T C just checked the other store in my proximity, they supposedly have 17 in stock, so some stores have them.
Yes the bar type is rather expensive, especially considering it’s only rated at 550lm while the PAR30 is rated at 800lm and only one third the price.
"This one even comes pre-leaked. That's a delight!" :D
If you put a mild diffuser over the panel and had a circuit to vary the voltage the different colors of LEDs going on and off would look like Star Trek circuits.
I've heard some hydroponics growers call these "Lie Emitting Diodes".
I have a 60 watt (more likely in reality a 30 watt) flood light sized LED grow light that has held up for one growing season. Very unsettling that it may self-destruct this year.. It functioned very well starting seedlings.
Loved your live stream tonight Clive, I was the one who asked the question who farts the most prompting the flatulence to ensue 😂
I recently purchased the Fluke 101 which was amazingly just under £50!
I am mostly pleased with it but unfortunately it doesn’t test current which is disappointing but for a small pocket meter it’s quite good and it’s CATIII so that’s good too.
I suspect that if you seperate the power pcb from the leds, these lamps will last for much longer. That lamp enclosure acts like an oven. Even if those caps are rated 105°C, the electrolytic fluid will eventually dry up and no longer smooth the incoming voltage sufficiently thereby ruining the semi-conductors which are not designed to run on a noisy/spikey half-rectified incoming voltage.
So my tip is to remove the pcb from the lamp encosure and mount it in a small plastic project box nearby and run wires to the led pcb with it's heatsink. You might have to use thicker connecting wire between the led pcb and the psu to compensate for resistive losses from the longer connecting wire.
bigclivedotcom I always learn something from your videos. Thanks Clive :-)
This one is awesome!! Your camera work is great!! I can see EVERYTHING!! Thanks Again Clive. Wow, did you see the clarity and detail? Oh. Clive, I was talking to this guy over here. Carry On! ;-) Love Scots. Love Isle of Man. Love Motorcycles. Love learning Electronics; especially "Clive" style teaching.
they look like candies when they are half lit :D
That broken one cooked itself. Even that transformer type tape got a bit too hot, now it's all shrank.
Great breakdown. They looked so promising.
Those caps are leaking Chinesium.
Interesting boards, or what is left of them. Intriguing. the "uv" LED. Now that I give it a thought.....the mess inside, or all the failure is due to the other things used to create a micro-climate. Heat, Humidity, Fans...and what you grow. Well. Thanks for the vid. See you around.
In my experience, those type lamps have about a 50/50 chance of taking the emitter array out when their caps go open-circuit. Considering how badly the sleeving had shrunk on the output cap, I'd say they're both well past "bad".
It's also interesting to see how tarnished the plating is inside the LEDs. I've run across batches of 5730 LEDs that had encapsulant issues that looked similar. Over time, the plating would react with something in the encapsulant and get tarnished. At the same time, the encapsulant would get harder and shrink, eventually peeling away from the housing and breaking the bond wires.
Thanks Clive.
I have been watching your vids for years and i love them you are so cool and make me so happy,.//.,
i bet this has been used to grow devils lettuce
I've made a few grow lamps using wavelengths of 400, 410, 425, 450, 465, 610, 630, 660, 730 - with WW to fill in the gaps.
I'd be interested to hear your take on 'dominant' wavelength vs 'peak' wavelength.
"Lets see if it has any fizz to it". That made me laugh.
It is like fizz when you put the back of your hand to it and it has a low voltage ac leak so it's a good description lol
The way those LEDS lit up unevenly looked like a really good effect for a movie control panel.
If you had a bank of them and slowly brought the voltage up and down it would look really cool.
The only reference to "Zhuoxon" I could find was on Alibaba. There was a page advertising "High-quality high-frequency low-impedance aluminum electrolytic capacitor 50v4.7uF", but it is no longer available.
Clive stop beating around the bush and show us you grow room haha
I had purchased these type of lamps (with white LEDs) for my porch security light enclosures, they failed in short order, which has been my experience with any LEDs with a green plastic nib on the base.
We have 4W GU10 LEDs around the property that run all night to illuminate the paths (about 7 of them). They've lasted for 3 years now. From a local manufacturer rather than the Chinese ones, of course. That's about 9,000 hours so far. I think their rating was 20,000 hours.
@@gary_rumain_you_peons, OK, who's the local, need some good lights for once.
@@AThreeDogNight In Australia. Mirabella lights. They were selling 4W GU10s in a 4 pack. For some reason, I can't find them any more.
Prolific Invention the led’s that are for outside use are different from your average. Any regular led should fail fairly quick outside
@@katestramenos929 Actually, it's a weatherproof enclosure and has LED lights from the dollar store now, and they have been working for several years.
you kno big clive... youre starting to make me suspicious with all this interest in grow leds ;)
Be cool man...
narc
Leave big Clive alone he might want to move to Jamaica mon
I know someone who actually grows actual indoor tomatoes (delicious)... And no, she has no clue and I never had the nerve to tell her what people might think if she talks about it too much. So, yes, those people exist, and are a valid market for this technology.
Grow lights and multiple houses in out of the way areas... albeit very cold houses.
You know it's quality when even the "good" unit has an electrolytic cap in in it that has obviously failed. After fuck all usage 👍👌
Great video as always. I must admit I do prefer your videos where you strip down deceased bits. That capacitor that had bulged had quite a prominent 'OXO' in it's name. I know all sorts of companies own all sorts of other companies but .....no I'm being silly. Can't you do a little video behind a bit of 6mm plate glass of a small capacitor going pop. I did an old one just to see what happened. The dog shot out the house like a whippet - which she is. Frightened the life out of me. I think they could take an eye out.
I ended up making my own, I bought a cheap spot light for the automobile and removed the lights and created a specific set of LED's but I matched my colors separately . the other type grow lamps are those that have the orange color phosphorus over the led's and I didnt like that, I wanted to choose for myself what arrangement was assembled, it is a little bit of work, I didn't use the SMT chips just the 1W and or the 3W chips with a lens, had some interesting effects, I wonder if one day I have this tall beanstalk that reaches the clouds? LOL
This is perfect as I've had a 50w version of this get fed got and died a quick death lol. It did what needed and started 15 plants altogether. I'm waiting to buy some of those cob dob you did a vid on. That's if I can find them. ThankQ. TkEZ>UK
A 30w halogen = 4w led approx. Maybe that is how they rated it?
"PMPO" strikes again :)
That is what they were doing, they just used the typical 6x to 8x LED power versus incandescent power conversion to get to 28W from a 4W LED. This particular LED housing seems to be designed for between 1-5W LED lamps as I have a number of them I use in shop equipment that are 3W using 3 1W LEDs and they do very well in this application lighting the work zone and are much cooler than the 20-40W incandescent bulbs they replaced (the tighter beam lets you get by well despite fewer lumens). I just wish the Chinese would be more honest in how they advertise specs and whether they are advertising “real” watts or “incandescent equivalent” watts as there is no real value in misleading people this way.
@@ethanpoole3443 why should they? Thats what OSRAM and Phillips do too......
Wupme I’ve never had any issues finding the real wattage on Philips products (I don’t have any Osram to refer to) - at least none of the many Philips LED bulbs that I have installed around my house of many varying styles, temperatures, and wattage have lacked those additional specs on their packaging. Yes they boldly claim the incandescent equivalent wattage in big print (which is fine if it’s clear what they mean), but I’ve always found them to clearly state the actual real wattage as well on their packaging (and frequently the actual lumen output and color temperature as well). I would have no real issue with the Chinese if they sold it as a clearly labeled “28W equivalent” (so long as such is more or less accurate in terms of lumens) that “draws 4W” actual power, but when the only spec offered is “28W E26/7 LED Grow Bulb” it is not at all clear what wattage they are specifying, and if no lumen output is given then you can’t compare lumen output either to determine what its actual equivalence should be.
Led lamp tear down season has begun!
Fuck yeah
Every season is LED lamp teardown season.
THANKS! My Plants Thank You too ~ they opted for Ra. ~- * ; )
Classic spark, is it live? I'll touch it to find out! 😂 The amount of French sparks I've seen jump and shout MR2 finding out that the old decrepit cables in old ruined houses that Brits had bought were still live!
Any better quality more expensive ones you'd recommend?
09:09 for some reason that cold white chip reminds me of the OwO face, I can't get it out of my mind now.
As Dave Jones says, those caps are Wun Hung Lo brand.
Most grow lights will drive the different spectrums at different currents. The goal isn't to evenly light all the chips, but to give the plant the spetrums it needs in proper proportion. (this unit may just be crap though)
have you ever done a teardown of the hopi?
i wonder if it could be hacked to increase the scan rate
Engraved chips are easier read when you smear a very thin layer of heat sink compound on them
The 38W is an equivalence of the output of a "normal" or conventional lamp I think, that is often the way they rate these things.
Grow lights? Maybe that's why they were full of compost.
LostJohnny
LOL :)
I bought several of these. They're bright at first but the LEDS seem to dim and give out after a relatively short period of time.
Seems to me 28w refers to 28 LEDs that might be 1watt each if you tweak the laws of physics.
These are probably not 28x1W as they claim in the adverts but lower Watt LED's (like 0.2W), plus they under-drive a bit to compensate for the not equal forward voltage of each string plus the heat sinking may not work well enough at any more power.
I think the blown capacitor caused an avalanche effect when it blew due to it's natural service life running out. I had that happen to 6 identical lamps within 4 days that had the exact same amount of time on them.
I have a bulb that looks suspiciously like those. Good thing I already don't use it anymore. They don't provide enough light to give vegetables a head start and especially not enough to help grow spinach in the winter, even just supplementing the poor light from outdoors. It's like the plants don't even notice it's on.
I did a little research a year or so back, when I was looking for a relatively cheap grow light to help winter my tropical plants in the basement. I discovered that in fact there are different wavelengths of blue and red that are most effective for photosynthesis, so you may in fact have different shades of red and blue. I ended up purchasing a 36 watt TaoTronics LED Grow Light Bulb, which has one wavelength of blue and two red.
I've used the lights for a couple seasons and have discovered that they're such a low wattage, that I don't know how effective they really are for my plants. Any chance you want to take one of these to bits? On the surface they seem to be a bit better quality than some you have explored, but that is really a superficial guess. I am also curious if I am getting the full 36 watts. Seems like most lights you explore are much less than advertised, which I think is the biggest factor in reducing their effectiveness. More watts, more grow!
That "fizz" test is obviously from the experience of many positive results.
In every cheap LED lamp with this exact style of driver I've bought from China, I've had to replace the caps as they've domed. Not one exception. First sign of trouble is usually the lamp pulsing...
The pulsing comes from consuming too much of what you're growing with them.
If I had built it, I would have put the UV and IR LEDs in the same chain, so the lower-voltage-than red for the IR one would cancel out the higher-voltage-than-blue of the UV one.
I hate the color of these lights in person but plants crave it
Grow lights? And what exactly are you growing? Is it tall and leafy??
Looks like a medium base e26 and a intermediate base c9 and E17
it's like a therapy session watching your videos (relaxing, enjoying, learning), by the way, last night I read the book about Scotland, are you one of the wearing tartan which belongs to one clan or not doesn't like the traditions? thanks
Kilts are mainly worn for ceremonies like weddings now. I've never worn one.
Second light is missing the big blue resistor, and also where's the isolating tape gone?
any white leds will draw more than the the blue with the same chips, because of the increased heat by the phosphor
These would last so much longer if only they cooled them better than minimum standard.
i have a flood light grow light its completely white never seen a pink like one before.. although been use to early tube like ones being like a green its kinda odd how no matter the color the job still works almost same more or less. but can sorta see other colors kinda they are nice and before anyone asks no i only use it for my tropical house plants and my golden berry trees cause winter is harsh and dark and cold.
The reason for the magenta color is that the red and blue portion of the visible spectrum are where the majority of photosynthetic activity peaks, so LED grow lights are frequently composed of red and blue LEDs which better matches most plant’s needs and allows for energy savings by not wasting energy at wavelengths that many plants do not need or use. Some plants will also benefit at certain points in their growth cycle from the addition of green wavelengths (or even the removal of the red or blue wavelengths), so sometimes you will also see grow lights with green as well, resulting in a whiter looking light - the addition of green can also make it easier for human’s tending to such crops since magenta light is unnatural to us and makes leaves and flowers looking unnatural. However, the addition of the useless IR and UV in this bulb is mostly just marketing as IR contributes nothing to photosynthesis and UV actually harms both the plant and photosynthesis so plants employ a form of sunscreen to protect themselves from UV - not that the minuscule amount emitted by these lamps will amount to anything anyhow as the levels are so low with just a single LED allocated to each.
oh that's cool i never knew that at all. shows i still have lots to learn then. im guessing mine is an ok one to use i know the plants love it. before i had it i was trying to rely on the sun in the window for them but they were like faded green to yellow cause was not strong or long enough cause winter. since the trees are still babies they were struggling now they are full blown green and getting taller and just reaching what they are suppose to be now. but it is the white like output one if look at the light that it casts on can sorta see a faint ghosting of red and blue mentioned and slight green but other wise it looks like a natural sun light.
weird colour that green insulator ring
I have a few of those (not quite identical, but close enough), hasn't died on me yet and it's been on for over a year. Mind you, I did greatly expand it's heat fins to extend it's reliability cuz I was tired of grow lights dying on me within the month. I will say though, it doesn't seem to work all that well as a grow light for me since my plants still die every time I use it during the winters when I can't have the plants near the cold window.
Problem is that it seems to be impossible to find good quality grow lights that use the standard light socket types. I've only ever been able to find 1 good grow light, it was an incandescent, and it lasted me about 2 months... but my plants stayed healthy with it. Unfortunately, you can't find them anymore. I've tried fluorescent and many LED types... all have been garbage.
turgsh01 maybe IKEA is better?
www.ikea.com/gb/en/products/indoor-gardening/indoor-growing-cultivators/växer-led-bulb-for-cultivation-par30-e27-art-60317483/
But I haven’t tried them, I drink beer instead 😉
@@MortenVindingSvendse I didn't even think to consider Ikea for grow lights... but I think I'll try them out, thanks.
Damn I just took delivery of a few of those and they're not the cheapest small E27 grow LEDs.
That capacitor looks like it had the shites and pebble dashed the walls.
At first I thought I was a bunch of cockroach poop
I gave up on b22 LEDs, they always fail.
Now getting COB type LEDs direct from China,
No failure at all yet, and you can get different colour profiles.
Sooo, what's the porpoise of having white lights in it? Isn't green and mostly yellow and therefore wasted power? Or do some plants need a bit of those frequencies for triggering hormones and such?
What do you know about UV leds? Down to what wavelength are they able to reliably produce these days?
I see some claiming to emit in the UVC region. Real and very expensive ones and cheap ones on eBay that are a bit suspicious looking.
Please explain the significance of a "fizz" of electrical equipment. I'm not joking. I've got a battery charger which runs off a "bargain" 12v adapter (including sleeved earth pin). Every time I'm using the charger if I run my finger against the metal body of the charger I can feel a vibration. It's not the surface of the charger- it doesn't happen when it's switched off. Any simple tests to be done with a DMM?? COuld it just be floating chasis ground due to the sleeved earth pin?
Pretty crappy mate, especially the almost pre popped one. The smoothing cap on the dead one definitely vented as shown by the small brown mark on the venting grooves near the confluence of them
Were the IR pair in series rather than parallel? Might have balanced the voltages better that way.
Parallel. Combined voltage is about 1.5V when tested at low current.
12:10 I have my suspicions about what was growing under that light..
And that looks like the sort of sugar fertiliser you use when they flower..
They? ;o)
Quite a few on there look very brown like they've been too hot. I've seen many lamps go this way (when salvaging drivers). It's as though they just turn the current up untill it "looks" like a 28w (or whatever) lamp.
well that is exactly what happend, as soon as leds started to hit the markets they decided to lable them with the equivalent lightoutput and they just went with the wattage an equal, old type of light bulb. Basically because people who aren't that educated in the field of electronics are like: the higher the wattage the higher the light output must be
Would you mind telling me where you got your wire strippers??? I've tried many different types of strippers, all disappointing. Looks like you've got a set that actually works, and would work with many wire types... Always enjoy your videos sir, thank you :-)
They're Unior strippers that you can set for a specific core size. Not sure the best place to get them.
Years ago I explained to the boss why the Neutron Star was eating par 36 lamps (it used 20 12 volt ones in series), 10 of them were halogen and 10 were tungsten. Told the boss that either of the 10 needed changing so that they were all the same type, he bought 5 tungstens which I swapped out and told him to order another 5 + 2 spares, he told me to use the ones that I had taken out as spares :( Five nights later we ran out of spares and were back to 10+10 Doh !
Yeah, those old disco lights need matched lamps. It would be interesting to retrofit one with custom PCBs with a large array of LEDs and resistors with a rectifier and smoothing capacitor each for smooth output and a slight tungsten characteristic.
Simply adding a resistor in series with each string of LEDs would solve the mis-match problem. Take a LED from each string and replace it with a resistor.
I would like to see the IR LED with the FLIR camera!
The Flir responds to far infrared 7-12 μm, while the IR LED is near infrared 0.7-1 μm. I suspect it would not look any different than the others.
The near infra red should already show up much better on a camera than to the eye. Cameras tend to have a much better response than our eyes at these wavelengths.
@@whitcwa :Thanks for your very educated answer!
700-800nm is far-red, not infrared. It's a transition zone between red and infrared, and has properties of both. Those, so called 'IR LEDs' are likely 730nm, but there are 710nm ones, and 760nm ones as well.
Clive would you possibly take a Kess V2 & KTAG Clone to bits? Lets see the quality as we use these quite often and would love to know if they could cause damage?
It's the software that is the bit that could cause issues.
bigclivedotcom I also heard the components are cheap copy’s also as guys change them for genuine components, if I send you one can you have a look? When your free e-mail me at : Dellboy70@outlook.com
lol @1:18 lets just see if it's live by putting my fingers on it 😂😆😂
Big clive is a big devil's lettuce grower. Hes opening a Mexican restaurant as a cover.
What printer do you use the picture looks good
Standard Epson ecotank printer.
So it's only a 28 watt if you're talking about incandescent equivalent watts?
It's hard to say how it would compare to a traditional lamp.
bigclivedotcom not enough to stop a Chinese marketing guy from applying the same formula as always 🤪
How expensive is waterproof spray? Back in the '90s there was an infomercial about a super cleaner that didn't interfere with a TV after filling its chassis with it.
You do get non conductive electronic cleaning solvents. Supersolve comes to mind. It can be used to purge out water that has seeped under components.
Hehehee ... grow lights ... I‘m sure they were bought for tomatoes!
Well, what else would one be growing indoors? Maybe some oregano.
@@Cadwaladr Chives for Clive.
Solvent to release thermal compound? Acetone, residue-free contact cleaner, brake cleaner, something volatile.
In fact Caramba brake cleaner often goes for something ridiculously cheap like 2€/500ml and there's no difference to residue-free contact cleaners to speak of.
I have an orange one I can find it easily !
21:38 anyone else want to see him keep cranking up the voltage, Photonicinduction style, until it pops?
wot no comments about clive pulling his ring ?
YEY! You got my email!
Maybe they mean it's the equivalent of a 28 watt incandescent?
28 Watts? I think the Chinese are getting a bit too generous with the power ratings these days.
I miss the old days when they only double the power...
Well they're 28W if you base your calculations off how long it takes to run down a battery pack made of 6000mah 18650s.
I got 3 grow lights for my chili's and they have '1000w, 1200w and 600w' on them but they all draw about 130 watts each at the wall but it says they have 100x 10watt leds but they under drive them so the leds last longer
They always do and unfortunately, no backlash for printing incorrect specs. No international body can do anything about it so it keeps on going. There are however some very reputable Chinese manufacturers so that gives me some hope.
@@valveman12 I agree. Not all of the Chinese manufacturers are the same. Some are honest, some are not. Just this day and age I guess.
Farted internally? It looks more like a shart!
The Uv and infrared are needed for growing.
There is very little photosynthetic activity at UV (in fact, UV tends to harm photosynthetic efficiency), and none at all at IR (too low in energy for photosynthesis), so neither is contributing anything useful towards plant growth or production (nor are either putting out any meaningful level of either for that matter with this lamp, so entirely useless). In fact, plants employ a sort of sunscreen to intentionally protect them from UV light as it is both too high in energy and is very damaging to them (as with us) in terms of free radical production and DNA damage and impairs photosynthesis.
That's your opinion, You are entitled too it.
@@ethanpoole3443 Plants need full spectrum to grow healthy.
chinaman led salesman nonsense. UV has no benefits beyond keeping bacteria growth to a minimum
@@thombaz very true
What would be a better way of designing this product?
A flat boad with separate psu like hlg LEDs.
.... "That's looking very crusty & unpleasant", (My doctor said that yesterday).
do these things actually work for growing plants indoors? or are they cheap shit to be avoided?
I haven't a clue. I've never actually tried growing plants with any of the grow lights I've got to explore.
I'm going to stick with the HP sodium.
Please , build the best grow light possible ! I need some good results on my marihua..................... euh ................ i mean ............. tomatos !
XD
Some of the reds turned orange not all the blues were the same color of blue and the blues turned purple also
I've never seen wire strippers like that, could you say what model or brand they are. Just curious
Traditional Unior wire strippers. Adjustable to a specific core size.