maybe for big companies but definitely not for small-mid sized ones. It's still easy to find jobs in germany for example, literally everybody is hiring. Obviously they are not 100k+ jobs but often enough totally fine.
@@pattleA big issue with junior workers is once they receive two or three years of experience they jump ship and the company has to start all over again.
@@michaelhunt2770Not really, junior rates simply skyrocketed over the last few years which gives this illusion. $100k+ for a frontend developer is a lot of money for that job.
I took a job in 2021 during the hiring boom for ~25% more than i was making at my current role. Worked there dor 2 years then got laid off in June of this year (during paternity leave actually). I reached out to my old VP from my previous job and asked if he had any openings. He did. In several areas thankfully. I basically could have my pick. Not only that, but they had increased the salary bands since i left so i eneded up making even more. I was hired within a week. I feel extremely fortunate for this. But just a good reminder to build a network and not to burn any bridges
Not burning bridges and just generally being nice to people and easy to work with will always get you far. People always prefer to know what they’re getting over the risk of hiring someone new. Sucks that you got laid of but glad it all worked out well in the end.
Folks that are shooting for Junior SWEs jobs, but are not having any luck, should consider going for TSE (Technical Support Engineer) roles instead imo. Benefits: * Potentially easier way to get your foot in the door of a company that you might be interested in being a SWE for * Pay can be six figures in US for bigger companies * Work/life balance is imo the best in tech, given that your work load is based off ticket SLAs * You will be paid to essentially become an expert in the product(s), which results in you obtaining intimate knowledge about how the product(s) work at both an architectural and user level through having to replicate issues that customers are encountering within your own testing environments, which will make you a much stronger SWE for those products should you end up internally transferring over to a SWE role when one opens.
Yeah just getting your foot in the door of somewhere you want to work is a good plan. Like I said my brother is looking for a junior SWE job at the moment (with not much success), I'm gonna suggest he does something similar to this. Thanks!
Im a guy with 29 years. over 20 of that in fulllstack. I know so many "rest box" frameworks, and javasrcipt/typescript blah blah blah it''d make your head spin. 4 months, 698 job submissions. Interviews.. 0. Im talking not even an interview. Im beside myself. Apparently as of 4 months ago my 29 years old job became not a thing.
I'm a 35 year guy; DEI makes it impossible for a guy like me to get hired despite having a great work history and references. I am the enemy it seems. So I went into a trade, the work is easier, mentally anyway, and I don't have to deal with the nut cases in large corporations. The company I worked for went offshore, and it has been a disaster. Makes me laugh. I guess what I am saying is you might want to think about doing something else; the glory days of coding are going, going, gone, it seems. And I feel your pain, I've been there.
@@trustedsource2617 Funny you say that. I totally agree man. I literally just got a bar tending certificate 4 hours ago. Past the test and it wasn't easy. But.. I passed! Yeah. Im going ot give bar tending a try. Im having a feeling Im going to enjoy life a lot more too. Your right man the corporate world, at least software, is a soup of narcissitic toxic self promoting fraud syndrome. If I look back.. I have to admit I hated most of it. It paid the bills. But it sucked.
Been hired at mid level in the last couple of months (3YoE). Feels like last chopper out of Saigon, though. If i fail probation or anything like that, I'm not confident of finding anything either quickly or at a similar level of pay
@@pattle I left a great job to take this new one up, so entirely self-inflicted. Hopefully the new role works out...but it's definitely uncomfortable listening to how hard people similar to myself are finding the market
hey Chris! I met you in the supermarket a few months ago - I see you're doing something different with the channel and I'm loving it! for someone who works in tech, this is such an interesting vid :)
Omg yes Rosa hope you’re doing great! Yeah I ran out of steam a bit with the running content so decided to focus more on tech / software engineering as that’s my true passion. Glad you like it, hope to bump into you again some time.
I am 30 and I just realized if I was born 10 years earlier I would be far better off. This is the start of the height of the career. If it was in 2014 that would be amazing!!!
I did my Computer science degree in 1984, so I'm 30 years older than you, and 'I' considered myself to have been born a few years too late to get the really big money.....especially if I'd been working in COBOL I could have collected a mountain of cash in the run up to the year 2000 when decades old code all needed to be inspected for date management. I would have loved to have been a SW engineer in the 1970s, they were treated like royalty.
@@aziz9488 yes, but I would own a house, got early on crypto in late 20s when people start to make good money. So you think this is stupid thinking? I don't think so, I started working 2015 and started making good enough money by 2020 ,lol guess what happened then ...
2001 all the computer guys were being laid off, startups closing. Computers isn't a good area to major, so being born 20 years earlier isn't good. But then everyone started getting jobs in computers. So it doesn't matter
Firstly, if you’re based in the Uk stay far away from American owned companies. Secondly, most engineering positions are filled with experienced engineers and I’m talking about a decade of experience. Most companies don’t want to go through the trouble of training junior devs with little experience and they rather have someone with the skills sets that just has to learn the business processes. Lastly, a number of engineers that fall under the category of requiring work sponsorship are finding it difficult too. Most companies aren’t sponsoring like that atm especially in tech so these group of people are also finding it hard.
Why do you advice that UK devs stay away from US companies? Yes no one want to take on junior devs because it takes a lot of time and money to train them up. Plus once you get them to a good level there’s no guarantee they’ll stick around.
This what's called a race to the bottom If software engineers can be replaced, so can 95% of other jobs If there are no jobs, who pays taxes, who buys products that have been taken over by AI? What will happen is civil unrest, followed by a return to the physical Where people will start trading locally for their goods
I don't agree with your take on AI, i've been using the tool daily, its great, but does not replace humans and definitely does not allow for humans who're not programmers/engineers to think like one. When that happens, we can live off of robots' earnings, not just software engineers, but everyone (won't happen any time soon) . You've told in another comment that in 2 years its going to be better than you (Which i take it as being able to program better than you without any more input than that of project managers and project owners AKA being able to program without knowing how to code, just listening to requirements) and i'll be here in 2 years to see how that went. Its an exceptionally great tool, but its a tool. Will definitely have an impact on the market and we need to adapt to reality. Gone are the days where little knowledge would grant you a position. Regarding AI, i think it will be fun to be here in two years' time to discuss this again :p PS: i agree with the rest, many recruiters want interviews and pursuit that aggressively but just because they have to show numbers , do X amount of interviews ,hire Y amount of people, not representative of reality. I receive a lot of those interview offerings
You’re right but if it makes me 2x more productive that’s potentially one job that doesn’t exist anymore. Also I think co-pilot will very soon be much more than an autocomplete
I took the first job I applied to in 2020, which turned out to be kind of a mistake. Now I’m looking and I’ve gotten mostly rejections and 1 phone screen.
It’s tough out there right now. Best things to do are make sure you have a strong portfolio of work and maybe considering taking a taking a different role with the hopes of moving into a SWE job later
@@petersuvara Probably the bit missing from this video is that most people are pants at coding who somehow get in to the industry. Then when they job hunt or try to get their first job they aren't up to scratch. I think the industry probably does need a course correction for a little while just so it settles down. Whenever someone talks about getting a new job now they all say they want to get into tech but aren't interested in technology and have no applicable background so they go off to a boot camp which helps them create a portfolio (like all their other course members) and then employers are supposed to say that'll do and hire them. I think just give two to three years and it'll pass a fad and the market will stabilize. For these boot camp courses I'm always reminded about what people say about gold rushes. Whenever there is a gold rush, sell shovels.
As you age, you'll discover that your ability to get fired increases exponentially. It's almost like employers only want young people rather than seasoned veterans who actually know what they are doing.
Older employees are sometimes not as easily bullied as younger ones. Particularly if they've been able to achieve some measure of financial independence. Ex: no debt, paid off mortgage, strong investment portfolio. That can make them less attractive to management. 😊
I don't think many people realise just how good it's going to get in a very very short space of time. I give it a couple of years before it's better than me at my job.
In the company where I work, we were forced to use Copilot and I have to say that it slowed down our development speed. On average, the results of using Copilot in productive projects are very unsatisfactory. Most people overestimate ChatGPT/Copilot and something like that, because of the good results in very simple projects. The current state is that it is a bit worse than Intellisense, an autofill algorithm that has been around for almost 15 years, with the small difference that Intellisense does nothing probability-based (so it doesn't interfere with work). Nevertheless, the company I work for has laid off 1350 colleagues and justified this with AI, but this had nothing to do with AI, but with the massive overstaffing during the Corona period.
OUT SOURCED & A.I 🤔 While youtube viewers are pondering about life … A poor kid living in the slum of India 🇮🇳 has obtained a master degree in A.I and willing to work for pennies on the dollar in America 🇺🇸 😂 Good Luck 👍
Perhaps it's hard to find a job if you say 'more software engineers and less jobs' instead of 'more software engineers and fewer jobs', like you did Chris. Speaking as an ex-Software Engineer and retired SW development department manager, I preferred to recruit well spoken people (all other things being equal) since accuracy in speech is probably indicative of caring about whether other things are correct....like their code. I'm just saying.
Pedantic types like yourself are typically incapable of producing anything of value. The only thing you were likely good at was fooling mid-level managers who lacked technical knowledge. I know your type well, and companies are far better off without you. I'm just saying.
being that pedantic over how someone talks has no correlation to the quality of their code and the fact you think that gives me enough of an understanding as to why you are retired
Fact check: junior roles have gone extinct. You're now expected to be a senior engineer or a tech lead.
Yeah companies are definitely valuing experience right now, no wants to take time training up junior engineers
maybe for big companies but definitely not for small-mid sized ones. It's still easy to find jobs in germany for example, literally everybody is hiring. Obviously they are not 100k+ jobs but often enough totally fine.
the only issue is that senior roles pay junior rates
@@pattleA big issue with junior workers is once they receive two or three years of experience they jump ship and the company has to start all over again.
@@michaelhunt2770Not really, junior rates simply skyrocketed over the last few years which gives this illusion. $100k+ for a frontend developer is a lot of money for that job.
I took a job in 2021 during the hiring boom for ~25% more than i was making at my current role. Worked there dor 2 years then got laid off in June of this year (during paternity leave actually).
I reached out to my old VP from my previous job and asked if he had any openings. He did. In several areas thankfully. I basically could have my pick. Not only that, but they had increased the salary bands since i left so i eneded up making even more. I was hired within a week.
I feel extremely fortunate for this. But just a good reminder to build a network and not to burn any bridges
Not burning bridges and just generally being nice to people and easy to work with will always get you far. People always prefer to know what they’re getting over the risk of hiring someone new. Sucks that you got laid of but glad it all worked out well in the end.
A network is crucial these days
Folks that are shooting for Junior SWEs jobs, but are not having any luck, should consider going for TSE (Technical Support Engineer) roles instead imo.
Benefits:
* Potentially easier way to get your foot in the door of a company that you might be interested in being a SWE for
* Pay can be six figures in US for bigger companies
* Work/life balance is imo the best in tech, given that your work load is based off ticket SLAs
* You will be paid to essentially become an expert in the product(s), which results in you obtaining intimate knowledge about how the product(s) work at both an architectural and user level through having to replicate issues that customers are encountering within your own testing environments, which will make you a much stronger SWE for those products should you end up internally transferring over to a SWE role when one opens.
Yeah just getting your foot in the door of somewhere you want to work is a good plan. Like I said my brother is looking for a junior SWE job at the moment (with not much success), I'm gonna suggest he does something similar to this. Thanks!
I started, ages ago, as a test engineer just to get my foot in the door.
Bad idea to watch this before bedtime LOL 😝 Existential panic activated haha
Im a guy with 29 years. over 20 of that in fulllstack. I know so many "rest box" frameworks, and javasrcipt/typescript blah blah blah it''d make your head spin. 4 months, 698 job submissions. Interviews.. 0. Im talking not even an interview.
Im beside myself. Apparently as of 4 months ago my 29 years old job became not a thing.
That sucks man, it’s not easy out there at the moment but I hope you find something soon
I'm a 35 year guy; DEI makes it impossible for a guy like me to get hired despite having a great work history and references. I am the enemy it seems. So I went into a trade, the work is easier, mentally anyway, and I don't have to deal with the nut cases in large corporations. The company I worked for went offshore, and it has been a disaster. Makes me laugh. I guess what I am saying is you might want to think about doing something else; the glory days of coding are going, going, gone, it seems. And I feel your pain, I've been there.
@@trustedsource2617 Funny you say that. I totally agree man. I literally just got a bar tending certificate 4 hours ago. Past the test and it wasn't easy. But.. I passed!
Yeah. Im going ot give bar tending a try. Im having a feeling Im going to enjoy life a lot more too.
Your right man the corporate world, at least software, is a soup of narcissitic toxic self promoting fraud syndrome.
If I look back.. I have to admit I hated most of it. It paid the bills. But it sucked.
@@trustedsource2617 Thanks for saying this btw.
Been hired at mid level in the last couple of months (3YoE). Feels like last chopper out of Saigon, though. If i fail probation or anything like that, I'm not confident of finding anything either quickly or at a similar level of pay
Haha, it's not a nice feeling. I feel exactly the same. Trying to diversify and create other income streams just to protect myself a bit.
@@pattle I left a great job to take this new one up, so entirely self-inflicted. Hopefully the new role works out...but it's definitely uncomfortable listening to how hard people similar to myself are finding the market
hey Chris! I met you in the supermarket a few months ago - I see you're doing something different with the channel and I'm loving it! for someone who works in tech, this is such an interesting vid :)
Omg yes Rosa hope you’re doing great! Yeah I ran out of steam a bit with the running content so decided to focus more on tech / software engineering as that’s my true passion. Glad you like it, hope to bump into you again some time.
I am 30 and I just realized if I was born 10 years earlier I would be far better off.
This is the start of the height of the career. If it was in 2014 that would be amazing!!!
I did my Computer science degree in 1984, so I'm 30 years older than you, and 'I' considered myself to have been born a few years too late to get the really big money.....especially if I'd been working in COBOL I could have collected a mountain of cash in the run up to the year 2000 when decades old code all needed to be inspected for date management. I would have loved to have been a SW engineer in the 1970s, they were treated like royalty.
if you were born 10 years you would be 40. an old man
@@aziz9488 yes, but I would own a house, got early on crypto in late 20s when people start to make good money.
So you think this is stupid thinking?
I don't think so, I started working 2015 and started making good enough money by 2020 ,lol guess what happened then ...
2001 all the computer guys were being laid off, startups closing. Computers isn't a good area to major, so being born 20 years earlier isn't good. But then everyone started getting jobs in computers. So it doesn't matter
@@aziz9488 an old man owning real estate, stock and crypto 😉
Firstly, if you’re based in the Uk stay far away from American owned companies. Secondly, most engineering positions are filled with experienced engineers and I’m talking about a decade of experience. Most companies don’t want to go through the trouble of training junior devs with little experience and they rather have someone with the skills sets that just has to learn the business processes.
Lastly, a number of engineers that fall under the category of requiring work sponsorship are finding it difficult too.
Most companies aren’t sponsoring like that atm especially in tech so these group of people are also finding it hard.
I’m looking for junior engineers… hard to find good fits.
Why do you advice that UK devs stay away from US companies?
Yes no one want to take on junior devs because it takes a lot of time and money to train them up. Plus once you get them to a good level there’s no guarantee they’ll stick around.
This what's called a race to the bottom
If software engineers can be replaced, so can 95% of other jobs
If there are no jobs, who pays taxes, who buys products that have been taken over by AI?
What will happen is civil unrest, followed by a return to the physical
Where people will start trading locally for their goods
Same with UX designers. Webflow and AI is already taking these jobs
I don't agree with your take on AI, i've been using the tool daily, its great, but does not replace humans and definitely does not allow for humans who're not programmers/engineers to think like one. When that happens, we can live off of robots' earnings, not just software engineers, but everyone (won't happen any time soon) . You've told in another comment that in 2 years its going to be better than you (Which i take it as being able to program better than you without any more input than that of project managers and project owners AKA being able to program without knowing how to code, just listening to requirements) and i'll be here in 2 years to see how that went. Its an exceptionally great tool, but its a tool. Will definitely have an impact on the market and we need to adapt to reality. Gone are the days where little knowledge would grant you a position. Regarding AI, i think it will be fun to be here in two years' time to discuss this again :p
PS: i agree with the rest, many recruiters want interviews and pursuit that aggressively but just because they have to show numbers , do X amount of interviews ,hire Y amount of people, not representative of reality. I receive a lot of those interview offerings
Calm down, you just can not compare a feature as autocomplete on steroids to actual intelligence of an engineer to build a thing.
You’re right but if it makes me 2x more productive that’s potentially one job that doesn’t exist anymore. Also I think co-pilot will very soon be much more than an autocomplete
I took the first job I applied to in 2020, which turned out to be kind of a mistake. Now I’m looking and I’ve gotten mostly rejections and 1 phone screen.
If you have 3-4 years of experience you should be fine. Focus on networking, hope it works out
more layoffs are coming. because you won't have just flat gdp. it will go down.
Really! I can’t find many good fit junior engineers at all… real software developers are hard to find!
It’s tough out there right now. Best things to do are make sure you have a strong portfolio of work and maybe considering taking a taking a different role with the hopes of moving into a SWE job later
No@@pattle I am a manager and business owner, and we would love some strong software engineers!
@@petersuvara Probably the bit missing from this video is that most people are pants at coding who somehow get in to the industry.
Then when they job hunt or try to get their first job they aren't up to scratch.
I think the industry probably does need a course correction for a little while just so it settles down. Whenever someone talks about getting a new job now they all say they want to get into tech but aren't interested in technology and have no applicable background so they go off to a boot camp which helps them create a portfolio (like all their other course members) and then employers are supposed to say that'll do and hire them.
I think just give two to three years and it'll pass a fad and the market will stabilize.
For these boot camp courses I'm always reminded about what people say about gold rushes. Whenever there is a gold rush, sell shovels.
Maybe your salary range is too low?
@@hockeymikey no, just no one around actually. There are overseas developers we could work with possibly, but there's not many at all.
I dunno what planet you are on Chris, but legit like there are jobs everywhere lol.. i get many many recruiters banging down my door.
Seriously? What tech stack?
There was no jobs in 2010. The Great Financial Crisis just happened and companies were not hiring recent grads.
Perhaps we didn’t fully recover until a few years later but when I was looking for my first job in 2010 I didn’t have many problems
As you age, you'll discover that your ability to get fired increases exponentially. It's almost like employers only want young people rather than seasoned veterans who actually know what they are doing.
This might just be because employers expect less mistakes from senior engineers vs more junior ones. But yeah ageism is real
Older employees are sometimes not as easily bullied as younger ones. Particularly if they've been able to achieve some measure of financial independence. Ex: no debt, paid off mortgage, strong investment portfolio. That can make them less attractive to management. 😊
0:48 "we hadnt even heard of a VR headset yet" : who is 'we' that you speak of?
We as in, software engineers / tech workers
@@pattle I wonder if Ivan Sutherland or Bob Sproull would agree.
I'm actually surprised software engineering has lasted as long as it did...
I've tried co-pilot as well and yes, AI is going to slash sw engineering jobs left and right. It's scary. The golden times are definitely over.
I don't think many people realise just how good it's going to get in a very very short space of time. I give it a couple of years before it's better than me at my job.
In the company where I work, we were forced to use Copilot and I have to say that it slowed down our development speed. On average, the results of using Copilot in productive projects are very unsatisfactory. Most people overestimate ChatGPT/Copilot and something like that, because of the good results in very simple projects. The current state is that it is a bit worse than Intellisense, an autofill algorithm that has been around for almost 15 years, with the small difference that Intellisense does nothing probability-based (so it doesn't interfere with work).
Nevertheless, the company I work for has laid off 1350 colleagues and justified this with AI, but this had nothing to do with AI, but with the massive overstaffing during the Corona period.
I don't want to be jobless due to AI
OUT SOURCED & A.I 🤔
While youtube viewers are pondering about life … A poor kid living in the slum of India 🇮🇳 has obtained a master degree in A.I and willing to work for pennies on the dollar in America 🇺🇸 😂 Good Luck 👍
PROGRAMMING as a CAREER PROFESSION is DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMED
Thanks to A.I.
Perhaps Brexit also has an impact on the decline of the software development industry in the UK.
I don’t think its isolated to one country, it seems be the same elsewhere in the world
Perhaps it's hard to find a job if you say 'more software engineers and less jobs' instead of 'more software engineers and fewer jobs', like you did Chris. Speaking as an ex-Software Engineer and retired SW development department manager, I preferred to recruit well spoken people (all other things being equal) since accuracy in speech is probably indicative of caring about whether other things are correct....like their code. I'm just saying.
I'd rather be homeless than work for you, absolute fossil.
Pedantic types like yourself are typically incapable of producing anything of value. The only thing you were likely good at was fooling mid-level managers who lacked technical knowledge. I know your type well, and companies are far better off without you. I'm just saying.
You just eliminated 99% of non-english as a first-language (yet bilingual), candidates. I also would hate working for you.
being that pedantic over how someone talks has no correlation to the quality of their code and the fact you think that gives me enough of an understanding as to why you are retired