Install Renogy 40A DC-DC Charger and D+ connection in Citroen Relay / Boxer / Ducato / Promaster
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.พ. 2022
- In this video I install my DC-DC charger and discover where to connect my D+ cable. I also discover a small water retention area of the van that ALL owners of X250 and X290 chassis van owners should check out. ALSO, in addition to the video content I found out the purpose of the LC connection on the charger, it half's the output power of the charger from 40A to 20A, this may be useful if you want to charge your batteries at a lower rate or perhaps you find your cables get warm after extended use at 40A as they may be undersized slightly. anyway, a useful feature to know about.
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What would us beginners do, without videos from people like you? Keep up the good work.
Thank you.
Cheers, nice video showing lots of details. You are in jolly old GB where the weather is colder so this is less important but in places like the SW of the US, it gets much warmer (40 degC), so this will be more important.
First the DC-DC charger should be mounted as close as possible to the house batteries to maximize charging. In your case ,I noted about 35 amp charging vs 40 amp specification. This is likely due to the voltage drops between the DC to-DC and the house batteries leading to relatively small voltage drops but which can lower the voltages at the rear batteries (your the DC to DC is mounted close to the start battery). If the DC to DC is right at the house battery, then the DC-DC output terminal will be identical to the battery terminal charging voltages and you should get the full 40Amp charging. This is easy to check if the DC-DC charges at the voltage levels cooresponding to the charger settings.
I should reiterate putting the DC to DC closer to the start battery is not all bad despite reducing the charging current. You will therefore reduce the alternator draw and heating of your alternator with a (in ratio of 35A/40A ) 87.5% reduction in alternator current and (in ratio (35/40)^2 ) power reduction 76.5% . Of course you can cut the power in 1/2 by switching on the LC Terminal as well as the D+ .
This also reduces the heat dissipation requirements of the DC to DC which in general would be better to mount to a piece of metal to conduct some of the heat away. In GB it is much colder and of less concern.
From the Renogy Manual bottom of pg 7:
When selecting a location for the DC-DC, make sure that the unit is as close as possible
to the battery you will be charging (auxiliary battery). The charger may be mounted on the
cabin of the vehicle, along a chassis rail, the inner guard of a vehicle, behind the grille or
headlight or even on the side of the radiator. However, you want to make sure that the
area is not susceptible to moisture or other substances as well as potentially high
temperatures.
The DC-DC would operate best if there is some air flow
This is the same DC to DC charger I was looking at last night. Nice to see it being installed and used. I like the idea of the switch on the sensing wire.
I think I preferred that to a relay type of set up. I can choose when it is on and off! thanks for the comment.
Really nice touch with the remote on wire, switch. Very swish. 👍🏻
Thanks! 👍
Great video and using a lot of your "how tos" in my build so thank you for all your awesome explanations. Noticed in this video that you have the converters socket in the B pillar behind the driver's seat, I believe there is a D+ pinout in one of those connector blocks along with a 50A charging cable
yes, only found out about this b pillar wiring after I had done everything. on next build I would investigate this further but take all info on YT with a pinch of salt until I have seen it and sussed it all out myself and not blindly plug things in without knowing what they are. seems a good feature though if it is what it is suppose to be.
Many thanks for doing this video.
Was having a few problems with my instal but followed you on yours.
I know have my system up and running.
Many thanks 🙏🏽
You're welcome!
Thanks so much for this! I'm about to purchase the 20A version of this charger and even though it should be a straightforward install it's great to see someone demonstrate a true beginning to end put in. Like many others have said, I really appreciate folks like you taking time to share this sort of thing.
You're very welcome and I'm glad you are enjoying the videos. I actually wish I had gone with the 20A and saved a few pounds as I use my 40A with the 'LC' connected which makes it 20A anyway which is plenty enough I've found.
@@wiltshirecustomcamper7203 Ah very interesting. My setup is incredibly small; a 5th gen Toyota I've converted into a micro-home. 100Ah lith battery wired to a 60w hood solar array, so I went with the smaller capacity. It charges great on it's own but since I'll be on the road so much it just makes sense to have a dc/dc charger, which will actually be arriving today and likely installed tomorrow. Thanks again for the video.
I like the touch of the switch for the D+ wire!
Thank you. we use it regularly and it is very conveniently located whilst driving.
Absolutely brilliant as usual you always do a brilliant job me old mucker you and your family stay safe 👍
Thanks 👍
Ejoyed the video, I'm about to purchase the 20A version of this charger hopefully it will be a straightforward install, installation will be easier after watching someone demonstrate a complete installation, many thx for taking the time cheers Chris
Glad it helped
Before you buy, I’ve had a 20A one for about three years, the battery settings are limited and the fan in mine at least has always been very loud. I’m having to use it daily while parked up and it drives me mad. Victron Orion smart are expensive but silent - I’ll be getting one soon
Amazing work and really great craftsmanship, would recommend everyone to try do something not only troll people which got some cojones to actually do something what they dreamed of, well well done congratulations
THank you for the comment. cheer!
Fantastic video! Thank you very much for uploading it. I have to replace my old leisure battery as it's simply almost completely dead now. I think I will go with LiFePO4 Renogy 100Ah and this DC-DC charger same one as yours. There is a 60A version but since the battery of my choice has a max 50A on charge I don't want to go above that on the DC-DC charger. Thank you very much for showing the whole procedure. The biggest unknown was the D+ ignition cable, I had no idea what that was 🙂
I also have a renogy 175W solar panel on the roof. I am not an expert in this field but I'd like to also connect the solar panel (currently I am only charging my Bluetti EB70 with my solar panel) to the leisure battery, fix a switch and be able to choose the charging method: from solar while parked on a sunny day or from the alternator while driving.
Big thank you for the very informative video!
thanks for the comment. I actually only use mine on the 20A setting and it is fine so don't go overboard here, it is not really needed. before fitting your D+, search through the comments of this video carefully as others have suggested other D+ locations around the cab that might be worth exploring, one being in the pillar behind the driver seat.
I would put a fuse right next to the vans battery in cases of damaging the cable. Otherwise nice build. Greetings from the EU 😀😉
Thanks for the tip!
Another good vid. How much space in mm do you have from the floor to underneath the passenger seat? I'm going to put my leisure battery there, but Will also be fitting lowered seat bases. We'll that's the plan.
My bases are the standard height so any measurement would be pointless for you with lower bases.... thanks for watching and for the question.
Amazing video thank you for the precious help.
Is there any chance you remember the hole size for the connectors you clamped on the four main cables of the charger (M6 ? M4 ?) I’d like to order them and my charger hasn’t arrived yet, thanks !
No, sorry. i don't recall now. all the best with your install.
Great video. What was the blue light up switch that you fitted in-line with the D+ signal cable?
They came from Amazon, just search backlit 12v push switch and you will find loads of options. make sure to get 'latched' for this purpose.
Hi thanks for this video, very useful. Weighing up getting up this vs the Sterling. Did you compare with this and if so what are the reasons for going with this vs the sterling? Thanks!
I did consider the Sterling but I had other Renogy products including batts, MPPT and solar panels and they all seem very good. Just liked the idea of keeping it all the same really and no other particular reason.
Brilliant stuff. Could I just ask what size cable are you using from the charger to the ignition connection?
I used a 1.5mm cable. Hope that helps. thanks.
Hi ! Here is another of your very detailed, clear yet concise and hands-on video : thanks a lot that for!
If I may ask, I was wondering if the cable you targeted isn't an AC+ (After Contact Positive Pole) more than a true "D+" which is one of the positive pole of the alternator, offering 0V when engine is off and 12V when running.
Difference is the D+ provides power when the engine is effectively rolling, not only the ignition tuenzd on (case of the AC+).
Starting your DC to DC charger based on the AC+ may end draining your vehicule batterie into your leasure battery (because the alternator isn't charging meanwhile). Whereas starting it based on the D+ will effectively redirect part of the current to the main battery to keep charging it and the remaing power to your leasure battery.
Not sure of I'm being clear enough, here...
Absolutely correct in what you say and bang on. I was comfortable with mine as I am the only driver and know not to have the DC/DC on when ignition on but not driving so as not to drain battery, which is why i installed a conveniently located on/off switch by my knee. if I was to rent it out or others used it it would be a concern for sure. for belt and braces you are on the right track with your train of thought on this subject.
Great video - what thickness wire did you use for the thick wire and what's the distance between your starter battery and leisure battery?
i used 16mm and it is about 4m in length. according the regs book, 16mm is sufficient, but for belt and braces and it actually being plenty enough, I have st my DC/DC to 20A output. I think if I installed again from scratch, I would go 25mm to be absolutely sure it is OK for 40A although the book states 16mm is OK.
Thanks for your video. Really helped me greatly wiring my own DC-DC charger in. Just a question on ignition source, do you think I could wire to the Pos+ of a cigarette lighter socket instead? It only live when car is in ignition mode. Thank you again!
Sounds perfectly reasonable, although I am not an electrician so take it all with a pinch of salt and seek pro advice if stuck. having said that, if the 12v socket is only live when ignition is on then this seems a decent option.
Man, I'm glad I found this video, I have a 2020 Citroen Relay, I'm just about to buy the newer Renogy DC to DC charger so I can connect my solar in to that too I'm assuming that my Van would have a smart alternator just as yours has & I will have to splice in where you have under the dash board, would that be right. If so, the very thought of having to tinker with that wire by the ignition absolutely terrifies me 🤣🤤
good luck with it. apparently there is also a D+ connection point in the pillar behind driver seat and also the cig lighter in the dash has been suggested as an option as well so have a good explore around before splicing into the ignition wire.
@@wiltshirecustomcamper7203 your video on doing this is the only real decent one around as far as TH-cam goes. I've been scanning around & have read about the cigarette lighter port option but the pillar down behind the drivers seat is a new one on me. I will try look in to this, thank you for the heads up man, much appreciated.
Thanks for the great video!
Can I ask what size fuse you used with the IGN wire please? Also what current does the IGN cable use when on?
I'm pretty new to this so hopefully iv'e explained it well enough, Many thanks mate.
Explained perfectly! I used a 2A fuse if I recall as it is just a signal wire so virtually no amps at all hardly. 2A was smallest I had at the time. Remember the fuse protects the cable so a 1mm or 1.5mm wire with a 2A fuse is just fine for this.
ahh such a hero!! thanks for getting back to me mate, I was wondering if it draws basically no current, that's helped a lot, really appreciate it mate, thanks again
@@wiltshirecustomcamper7203
You must also realise the method you did to obtain the "correct" ignition wire can be INcorrect. There are wires that are DEAD when the ignition is OFF. There are wires that are ALIVE when the ignition is switched to accessory mode, but after starting the auto, that same wire becomes DEAD. Then there are wires that are ALIVE when the engine is started and stays alive while the engine is running. The method you showed, can become dead wires once the auto is started, therefore the dc-dc charger is only on when in Accessory mode, and switches off when the engine is started. Always check that the wire stays HOT with 12vdc after starting the engine.
Hiya, is there any main reason you’ve put it under the passenger seat? Could you put it in the garage?
Great videos - I’m finding them very helpful on my conversion 👍
HI, yes it could go in the garage but if my memory serves me correctly the cable from the van battery to the DC/DC charger needs to be bigger than the cable from the charger to the leisure battery, so it was an exercise is reducing costs by having the 'long' cable run in the smaller cable size. hope that makes sense. check out the renogy installation guide on their website for details on this.
Whats your opinion on the Renogy kit? I am torn between this and Victron, if it was purely cost I would pick Renogy however there are mixed reviews on the brand where there is total agreement on how good Victron is
Ah yes, a big question! I have been very happy with the renogy kit and it has worked flawlessly for me, I like the fact I dont need that stupid shunt that Victron uses as the battery monitor plugs directly to the batteries on an ethernet cable! I think Victron need to look at that. But I do like the Cerbo GX on the victron kit and Renogy need to look at that as their connectivity of devices could be better? so in a roundabout way i guess the answer is that both are good but neither are perfect. You are defo on the right lines with either one though, and dont get that Ecoflow powerkit rubbish....
Hi guys, just a little tip, d+ color on fiat ducato 2010(europe) is a thin brown/green cable
thanks for the tip, hopefully it will help others.
The LC connector (low current) I'm not so sure about the 50%. Other manuals I've read its limiting to 12.5% and the 50% only applies to the 60A version. Havent tested it myself since I don't care about that feature. Also, I would personally prefer connecting the charger to the actual D+, and not to the ignition. If you're shortly parked somewhere, keeping the key in ignition, without having the engine running, 40A will drain the starter battery pretty fast. With a real D+ it's only charging with running engine (alternator running). On my 2007 Ducato it was just a matter of finding the right wire in the loom. On my van it was on 1 of the connectors on the fusebox next below the steering wheel. In eLearn I found the pinout, and connected to that wire. Verified with a multimeter, only +12V with the engine running, 0V with ignition on as I wanted. Quote "The connection between connector B (D+) of the A010 alternator and pin 25 of connector A of the M001 Body Computer allows the performance of the alternator itself to be diagnosed"
Interesting points about the D+ and some useful info. I could not find any info/videos on what cable or connection was specifically for D+ so had to improvise with the ignition cable, also hence why I installed a switch for the very reason to turn it off if ignition is on but engine off. On the LC front, I have tried it and with just D+ connected with the engine idling and get 34.7 amps, with LC connected as well it dropped to 20.3 amps. I may for belt and braces hunt out a 12V feed from fuse board in the video that is only giving 12V when engine on, will have to experiment!
@@wiltshirecustomcamper7203 Seems the 50% than also should apply for the 40A version, testing is more trustworty than a manual ;) I also added a switch, but thats since I have 315Wp of solar and it's pretty useless to have the battery full at 10.00AM after a drive in the morning, if there is sun available all day. In the end, the alternator is powered by the engine thus more load on the alternator = more fuel (not much, but still, its the idea of not using free solar). For the D+ you can find your model in eLearn (the Fiat/Sevel program with all wiring diagrams and stuff). For my engine (2.3JTD) i wrote it on my site djsmiley . com below the wiring head-unit, rearview camera and DC charger page
My combined Renogy B2B and Solar 50amp controller does that 50% malarkey so I turn off my solar when I want the full wack (50amps) from my alternator
The charger will only work when the alternator is running
Did you not have the Converter’s socket in the B Piller behind the driver's seat where you could of conected your DC to DC cables and your D+ ?? also how have you found the renogy stuff I'm just about to start my van and have got a renogy Inverter ready and waiting but not sure to go renogy or victron for the rest ???
Yes, only discovered after I had done it about the 12v D+ cable behind the B pillar. I have been very happy with all the renogy equipment but Victron is of course very good aswell.
Any photos of this cable please, what am I looking for? I need an ignition live for my DC-DC charger
You mentioned that the D+ cable provides 12V to the charger when the engine is running. Does the engine need to be running for the green light to come on?
When I turn the ignition to the on position (engine off), the green light comes on for a split second and quickly fades away.
yes that would be right, a good and proper D+ signal source would only work when engine is running otherwise it would very very quickly drain your starter battery.
Omg, I thought it was a simple install. Didn't realise you had to dismantle your vehicle to install it 😳🤦♀
Hi, do I need to run negative cable straight from the main battery (-)or just screw into ground somewhere along? TIA
I would run a dedicated negative cable. belt and braces and all that!
I was told to keep the ignition off when either of the seats are removed and the airbags are disconnected? Did you have the passenger seat off the frame and leave the airbag cable connected? I've also seen loads of people mention this when they fit swivels to the front seats. (To keep the ignition off while the airbag cable was disconnected)
The passenger side air bags cables were never connected when the original double seat was there so they are just tucked in the back. i did disconnect the batt when I did the driver swivel for belt and braces on it.
@@wiltshirecustomcamper7203 Yes I've been disconnecting the battery when I fitted the swivels to my two single seats. If you saw the sheer volume of cables and wires I'm in the process of removing from the rear of my 2012 ambulance, you would be gob smacked. Even I didn't realise how much there was and I was removing it all. My mates thought I was exaggerating until I sent them a video of it all on the floor today. I certainly have enough to rewire everything three times over. I might even put up a couple of little videos up on YT. Once I have finished removing all the ambulance fixtures and fittings (including the steel box section frame work, plus 2mm and 3mm sheet steel that is welded to the standard van body and the rear ramp and bumper that is made from 3mm steel and the 3 rear seats that weigh 50-75kgs each, I will have removed about 1000kgs. Fingers crossed that will all be removed by this weekend. I've gained 5-6 inches now the suspended ceiling has been removed. Then I can finally start my camper build. All the parts and materials are pilling up now. Just hunting round for and LPG tank, which is the last large item to buy. I really like your Solway panels but they are so expensive for what they are. I've spent that money on 600Ah of Lifpo4 battery bank instead. I'm hoping to get my camper built for the summer holidays. It's going to take every spare hour i've get between now and June/July.
@@drewhodge3820 Great info, thanks for the update. The solways look great but agreed, very expensive. In my next build I am not going with LPG at all. now LifePo4 are pretty cheap (compared to just a year ago) I will go with large batt bank, diesel fired Truma and an induction cooker on a chunky inverter. good luck with the build...
@@wiltshirecustomcamper7203 I'm only using the LPG for the oven and a gas port for an outside BBQ. I'm using an induction hob. I eventually for a very reliable supplier for genuine grade A Lifepo4 cells. So the 600Ah cost me £1000 with a good quality BMS. I've got a Lavaner diesel heater and a Wabasto water heater that is connecter to a plate heat exchanger for hot water.
Could you let me know the size of fuse in amps for the D+ wire. I am installing a 40A Renogy DC-DC charger too.
If I remember I put a 1A fuse in. it is just a very small current signal cable.
Does anyone know what size fuse to use on the ignition/D+ cable and what gauge cable for it? Thanks
You will find that there is ignition live in the panel on the wall just behind drivers seat base. That information is for anyone else as you have already done yours.
Ooohh! thanks for the info, I will have a dig for it, may come in useful for something else.....
Hi, thanks first for all the infos in this video. Where is exactly the pannel behind drivers seat you are talking about ? I think my surrounding might be different because I have drivers seat on suspension (Peugeot Boxer 2017)
@@frogopio Hi, the black panel below the seat belt on the wall is where you will find extra 12v. Not actually on the seat base. One screw and you pull it away from the clip. Difficult with the seat in but possible.
Im also looking for a D+ wire in the same place, actually in the pillar…but there are quite a few relays in there, can you be a little more descriptive ?
Is there a reason why you didn’t just piggyback a fuse in the fuse box that is live when ignition is on?
Lets say I should have done alot more investigation into the D+ subject but it was done in a bit of a rush.
Can you just wire the 12v switch lead straight into the cig lighter or the stereo rather than cutting into the wire loom?
Im about to install one and i thought this would be easier
It just tell if engine is on, or ignition, can use plug if remember use it but can jump off
12v socket (cig lighter) seems a good option if it is only on when ignition is on.
Hi can you help I have installed a unit a 40 amp unit exactly the same way but the green light will come on. I have cheecked all connections checked the voltage and all is correct. I have second unit tried that and still no green light. My question is how much voltage does it reguire for the D+ light to come on., Please help
I dont think the D+ connection needs anything major amps wise, just a 12v source? best way to test is perhaps to tap into any good 12v wire in the van either on the vehicle side or the habitation side with a splice connector and run to the D+ on the DC/DC charger and see if it lights up, if not maybe a dodgy charger, if it does then hunt out a good 12v 'ignition on' power source for it. some have suggested tapping the back of the cig lighter on the dash, others mention a dedicated D+ connection in the pillar on the driver side, there are many options for that. good luck with it.
Hi, may i use the battery while it is charging with that charger?
Presumably? I dont turn off my fridge whilst driving as I'm sure nobody does so that is using power whilst its charging?
Another option instead of the switch is a cheap voltage sensing relay connected to your ignition switched live, which could close the relay only when it sees alternator voltage.
I used to use these but found the technology to be somewhat floored as they work only from sensing voltage rather than current. Therefore, for instance, if you were to turn off your ignition the voltage would stay high on your starter battery and the relay would remain open. If you then started your engine again, both batteries would be used to crank the engine... not good for a leisure battery. This is how I found out my leisure batteries were not lasting. Since using a Renogy DC to DC charger with the D+ wire, I have had no problems at all, it's such a good device.
@@themoonraker That would be true if using a VSR for charging by putting a VSR between the two batteries, but my suggestion is only for the D+ signal. It's just to "turn on" the charger rather than linking the batteries together (which the B2B charger doesn't do). It would simply mean that the D+ signal is live only when the ignition is on AND the engine is running, rather than at all times when the ignition is on.
You can avoid the D+ cable by fitting a voltage sensitive relay that comes on at 13.2v and off at 12.8 they cost £12 - personally I would have put the DC to DC closer to the auxiliary house battery as its a boost circuit designed to jack up any voltage drop in the run leading to it not after it and as I'm sure you discovered the fans make quite a noise
If you have a smart alternator then the voltage can swing around a fair amount and can drop below 12.8v, turning off your B2B charger.
@@y0rkiebar Oh I never realised that smart alternators go below 12.8 - My rig is 1998 long before they came in - thanks
@@trevortrevortsr2 Yeah, smart alternators need a few tweaks to the old skool setup to get max bang for the buck!
@@y0rkiebar I have 280 watts solar on the roof that meets 90% of my needs
@@trevortrevortsr2 can never have too much solar 🙂
wouldn't you want the incoming feed from starter battery fuse near the starter battery
Hi I got a 60 aamp DC DC can you tell me witch wires go to what halo switch pl
In fairness, that's what the instructions, which with renogy are pretty good, are for.
What size of fuse did you use for d+ line?
2a i think if i remember.
Wat size cables did you use
from DC/DC to batts I used 16mm as only needed 20A charge, if using 40A then might suggest 25mm if a long run. I am using the connector pin on the front to limit output to 20A which has been absolutely fine for my needs.
@@wiltshirecustomcamper7203 thks for reply went with 25mm cable in the end.
👍
To avoid tying into the actual ignition wire you can just find an empty fuse slot that only has power with the key on.
Great video anyways, and there's more than one right way to do it, the fuse box just happens to be the way I've always done it.
indeed, I have since been old there is a 12v switched live behind the pillar on the drivers side as well. not looked for it yet however.
Isn't this going to still be a problem especially in cold weather. You're hitting your battery with a 40a load before the engine even has a chance to get running as soon as you turn your key. Also, if you leave ignition and forget you'll kill your battery? I'm trying to resolve this through using a voltage sensing relay programmed to open on 13.8v and close below 13.2v
Yes, that was the reason for the manual override switch install. Using my own common sense, I turn it on when actually driving and I also have found that 20A is actually plenty to charge my batteries so I have fitted the 12v feed to the LC connection so it only outputs 20A.
You can acquire a true d+ using the wiring in the converters socket, on floor under driver seatbelt real position. There is a socket there with an earth that completes with d+, so you can place a relay over this and connect to a 12v there also to generate a true d+.
I'm pretty sure the charger will not activate until the engine is running.
It needs close to 14V to activate.
The green light on my unit does not turn on when I turn the ignition to the on position.
Update: we have a 2011 Peugeot boxer and it’s the thick yellow cable. There’s no thick white one with a black line on.
you could cut slightly into the sheathing with a stanley blade to get volt meter on it to check voltage with and without ignition. also a previous comment to this video mentioned another cable option by the b pillar so have a look for that aswell as a plan b. hope that helps and good luck.
easier to get a piggyback fuse then you dont need to start stripping wires.
Hello
I recently bought and installed a renogy dc-dc 40A according to the instructions. Why does the 60amp fuse blow? after 10-15 minutes
The cables are 35mm2
sorry to hear you are having trouble. best to contact renogy tech help i think. they do it by email but do reply within a few days, good luck with it.