The Cursed Heroes of Dark Souls, Elden Ring, and Bloodborne
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 พ.ย. 2022
- WORLDSMITHS ➤ nebula.tv/videos/talefoundry-...
Go watch out video about the director of these games, Hidetaka Miyazaki! You may be surprised by his relationship to the IPs, and how strikingly similar his journey is to all these poor, cursed heroes...
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Heroes do not always look heroic. In fact, some of the greatest heroes of all are the most burdened, the most troubled, the weakest.
Few other pieces of media embrace this idea as well as Dark Souls and the other Fromsoft games, which make death a feature, not a bug.
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Other creators: Here, use this legendary dragon sword to kill some bandits on the road
Miyazaki: Take that wooden stick from the ground and kill God with it
"Alright, good, now do that 4 more times."
Broken sword lol
@@CGAA07017 Or a ladle.
The club is a surprisingly effective weapon!
Vangers: well who said that the world will be less doomed afterwards? It's still made of the fears and subconscience of humans who died out for a reason, not the most sturdy material. But yeah, your personal efforts are rewarded personally.
Bravery is not the absence of fear, but the ability to persevere even when its presence is overwhelming.
That’s courage.
@@sunbreakerqueenofbronze621 “Courage cannot erase our fear / courage is when we face our fear” !!
Without fear bravery or courage wouldn't be a thing
I keep seeing this same argument in various comments sections. wtf is going on?
@@inthedeadhours
quotation
One element of Elden Ring that I liked is that, in addition to the Cursed Hero, it had the classic Chosen One who is destined to become a powerful being, but said Chosen One outright rejected said fate. Ranni was chosen by the Two Fingers to become a successor to Queen Marika, but she rejected it so thoroughly that she killed her own flesh and stuffed her soul into a doll and then set out to kill the Two Fingers just to free herself from the fate someone else chose for her.
Perhaps the same could be said for Vyke, and Bernahl to a degree; Both are Tarnished as you are, and Vyke was even the closest to grasping the purpose that now drives you.
But upon the discovery of what the last hurdle entails, the final sacrifice required to reach their destiny, they both falter. For no longer does it ask of them to bleed, or to slay. It asks of them to cast off what they have become close to. Bernahl would turn his back on destiny entirely, and Vyke would seek to find any path he could take to curtail such a sacrifice, and in the end it would cost him everything he sought to save alongside everything he had cast off to preserve it in the first place.
Well no vyke almost made it to become elden lord but the thing that stopped him was the same thing as us where a guy in a familiar body comes to us and tells us we can save our maiden that has helped us so much and vyke did it and became the Lord of the chaos flame and went mad that's why he attacks you as an invader but also has a evergoal to show you how he was before he went insane
*respect*
Ranni has the same mentality as a white 15 yr/o girl but to an extreme
@@wiselychosenname2867 except she actually has a good point and can be justified in her actions, after all the creatures of the Lands Between have practically no free will of their own unless they happen to be a demigod
This is why I love stories like the ones told in the souls games or berserk. No matter how bleak it gets, humanity perseveres. One thing I feel is worth mentioning about berserk is that it actually plays on the concept of the destined hero by making him the main antagonist. Griffith was fated to be a member of the god hand while Guts was fated to die from the moment he was born, and yet he still lives. It pits the fated hero against the hero who continues to struggle against fate. The man who gives up everything to fulfill his destiny goes against the man who must give up his life and humanity to fight against fate.
To be fair it's kind of stated that a lot of the soulsborne games or based on berserk
@@komickid833 I mean, yeah. All of em are. Miyazaki is a die hard Berserk fan. Except for maybe DS2.
@@corvid_k a shame really , ds2 has a lot of cool things in it but it feels rushed and flat
@@yankoelgueta1116 there's deffly a couple reasons it's the LEAST favorite Souls game among lots of fans. It's not horrible but the gameplay just feels SO choppy.
Except in Bloodborne. Humanity is just fucked there lol
The Hero in DS 1 in particular doesn't even have any reason for linking the fire, people in the world imprisoned him, and gods abandoned him, even after he linked the fire he is still nameless in the eyes of the world. Yet still, he chose to sacrifice himself to save the world, which is literally as selfless as one can be.
That depends on what the Chosen Undead learns on their journey. Most of the people interested in keeping the fire going conveniently leave out the fact that linking it means sacrificing your own existence.
Technically, linking the fire actually dooms the world to a slow and painful death. Unfortunately, the alternative doesn't solve anything either because someone else just has to light it.
Linking the fire is the worst thing to do. Not that the age of man is much better, but the gods deserve to die forever.
@@patricklukcy13 Whoa whoa, the gods aren't all assholes. This is all Gwyn's fault primarily, the rest are just kept in the dark regarding the true nature of things.
@@patricklukcy13 Dark Souls deserves better than a black and white view like that. Things are much more nuanced than "Gods bad". Besides, Gwyn was a pretty tragic character until Dark Souls 3, especially the Ringed City, tried really hard to make him a villain
The thing I love most about the Souls games is that they make you feel like a loser. It’s not just about dying again and again, but it’s also the fact that everything is bigger and stronger than you. Everything can kill you, and you need to exercise caution at every step.
no matter how powerful you become, it seems like any random monster can kill you easily if you're not careful. it's because you're nothing but a weak human by nature, and your tools can only get you so far. but even then, you have the perseverance to get through anything, even gods
Pretty much everything in elden ring, even regular soldiers of godrick, are larger and taller than you are. Only things like demi humans, which are considered to be scum of the earth anyway, are smaller and weaker than you. It's almost poetic.
Me playing Dark Souls 3 dying at the Untended Graves to some hollows after felling a Oceiros. Yep checks out!
And then you turn around and kill god
Elden ring is the first one that I actually felt powerful like yeah I can go toe to toe with this dragon, with the right build.
Walking in and vaporizing bosses with your magic death ray was a great change of pace and a ton of fun after the countless beatdowns
Dark Souls was much deeper than I could have possibly prepared for. Nothing stayed with me more than the story of Siegmeyer and Siegward. It genuinely changed me in a way I can’t quite put a finger on.
Sometimes helping someone is the quickest path to their demise... That's what I took from their stories
You forgot one mention but at least we can be sure that you have seen her faaather.
Jokes aside, The Sigs are polar opposites, one hollows because you help him, the other hollows because he actually acomplishes his mission.
No that’s Solair’s story if you don’t kill that cursed sunlight maggot!
Siegmeyer, the irresponsible knight. The "I'll get to it later." and "I'll wait for the solution to happen." knight.
He's not unkind, or ill-intentioned, but he doesn't have the will or responsibility to be the hero himself, despite his armor, despite his abilities.
He sits, and sleeps his life away; and brings worry to his family. He is is, at one point or another: every reason to succeed, but lacking the will. Adorable, tragic, onion.
Siegward is Siegmeyer redeemed; bumbling and naive still, but answering the call with all the bravado and grace that his former incarnation used to hide behind. And because he now participates in the heroism, we gladly toast our victories with him. 🍻
Moral: It's dangerous to shirk responsibility, as avoidance becomes habit so easily and can hollow ever a person positioned well to be a hero; BUT, it is also never too late to gain the willpower, to leap into danger, and to be the hero you're able to be.
@@EgoEroTergum I like to think that, due to time being "convoluted" and all that, Siegward *is* Siegmeyer - or at least, another version of him. DS3 is the end of time, the convergence of all versions of the world; the unkindled are previous heroes who failed, brought back to redeem themselves and kindle the First Flame. Thus, I believe that Siegward knows of his shame (whether or not he remembers why he is shameful), and does whatever he can to redeem himself - not for the flame, but for his own honor.
One of my favorite moments in Elden Ring is at the end of Leyndell Capital, where the story has been shepherding you to this entire time. The place where you do the thing you're supposed to - become Elden Lord! Guardian of the sacred Erdtree, ruler of nations!
The tree simply refuses you. You've defeated literal demigods at this point, have come further than any Tarnished ever had before you. You literally carry several marks of royalty and divinity on your person, but the seat of the throne still says "No." The only way forward that follows ideas of fated glory and restoring order becomes impossible. Never have I felt more "unchosen" than then.
Melina is the true hero, or shabiri depending on perspective
Sounds like that tree needs to be shown your axe collection. Lol
And to continue you have to commit a sin greater that slaying the gods themselves
I can't exactly place my thoughts on it. It's this unique mix of being hailed to push onward and fulfill this great destiny like a traditional heroic journey, to then find there's almost an "error in the system" and you just double, triple and quadruple down and paradoxically force this sacred prophecy by committing the biggest sacrilege with literal fire and death.
And that’s why the tree needs little convincing. Nothing a little arson can’t fix
Within Dark Souls, there's a good saying from our first saviour.
"Don't you dare go Hollow"
This line emphasizes exactly how the player may feel through this journey. But you meet those who either have hope or've simply given up.
You literally meet a man simply known as "Crestfallen Knight" and after him you meet "Solaire \[T]/" who's literally the brightest personality you'll meet other then Siegmeyer.
I love this series because they make you feel hopeless but give you encouragement to persevere. Whether it be the game or yourself telling so, to never give up.
The Undead Curse goes deeper than just us. We find out in the third game that when Gwyn linked humanity to the first flame, he not only made us dependent on the flame but made the flame dependent on us. So by the end of the ringed city dlc when we fight Gael, the world itself is going hollow. All because Gwyn couldn't let go of his authority.
What unchecked ego does to a mf
And at the end of the world it’s just two nobodies fighting each other
@lordkroak6670 I would argue neither are nobodies, one is a slave knigh that's been slaughtering everybody to gather up the dark soul, the other is the final hope for the bonfire who has killed every lord of cinder.
@@pickybusiness8549Its true but... Is there really someone who is the alive witness of that feats? They are nobodies not because they have done nothing, but because they are the literal last two things alive, the things they did doesnt even matter anymore, there is nothing that will remember you or Gael in the dead world. Of course, thats the tragedy of the DS3 world, but the painted world is apart from that, a new world where the flame or the curse doesnt exist. But that world doesnt exist yet for the ashen one and maybe they cant even be part of it, because the old painted world is already burning and they might just vanish after the job is done.
The greatest hero being forgotten by everything
Dark Souls...and Bloodborne...both hold a very very special place in my heart. The world is depressing and hostile, but through perseverance and with the help of the very few people who are willing to assist you, you are capable of overcoming the challenge. A message I needed when I played my very first SoulsBorne game.
Then what do you think of
Elden Ring? Personally, that game is still depressing and dark (though, not as much as BB and DS 1-2-3), and for me this unchosen hero is well executed, but you don't know quite how. I love ER, but the lore is extremely obscure and doesn't make a lot of sense sometimes. The other games do that part of the experience better. Yet all "Souls" games (except for DS2 and Demon's Souls) are fantastic.
@@crabniac it’s a bit more shallow I think I miss the uniqueness of dark souls bosses
@@crabniac give demon souls and espicially ds2 some recognition man
i am just tired of the constent downplay
@@lezanji1884THANK YOU!!!🙌👏👏👏
@@crabniacthe hero of Elden Ring is just on a journey who goes from zero to hero, while Dark Souls and Bloodborne are fighting a curse.
I love how the characters journey is portrayed in games like Elden Ring. You are an ordinary and fragile human being in a world of Demon's, Dragon's and Giant's. The game makes you feel that with every death.
"How much of heroism is just suffering."
Heroism is continuing the fight for good in spite of suffering.
The suffering itself isn't what makes them heroic, it makes them tragic.
I can't remember where I heard this, but I think it explains this very well. "The most important part of heroism is not death, but sacrifice. If a soldier dies for nothing, than he he has accomplished nothing worthy of renown and is worthy of pity rather than glory; when a man dies for everything, his name is rightly sung and honored, and he has earned the distinction of hero."
Souls Games also make me think of the poem "If" by Rudyard Kipling in how they typically focus on self control as well, the will to hold on and keep trying even in the face of your greatest and most demoralizing failures.
There's a quote from Chainsaw Man: "The ones Devils fear the most aren't the smartest or bravest, they're the ones with a few screws loose." I feel like that applies to souls protagonists as well. Nobody who is sane would continue die over and over as they kill gods in order to link the flame, or to journey into Yharnam and come face to face with eldritch gods.
It's also about perseverance at least in dark souls 1. I still remember the quote where someone compared hollowfication to depression, and going full on hollow is when you fully give up. Which makes lines like don't you dare go hollow on me, so much more powerful.
@@luclin92 true
Or to literally tell the Erdtree no when it denied you becoming Elden Lord
You were basically told by THE defining law of the land that you can’t be the Elden Lord and yet you still persevered and found another way
And when you lose that precious insanity, when you start to realize the utterly damned and endless journey you're trying your futile best to overcome, and when those dregs impart themselves in every life you're struck down and revived in, you go hollow.
In Souls games if you invade someone and they're just sitting their undies with nothing but a dagger. Be afraid, be very afraid. They got a touch of insanity and probably the skills to back it up.
One of the things I like about the Souls series and the other similar From Soft titles, that goes along with your theme, is that the strength of will of the player that gives the character the drive to surpass the challenges.
I think characters like these are just the absolute underdogs.
No friends, no favour of the Gods, no powers, not even good looks!
They're like your average joe that just so happen to, through luck or intervention of others, manage to do great feats even when the cards are stacked against them to the point that there is a wall of cards. They're either the most badass and determined characters ever or the most lucky ones ever
Edit: oh and they're also extremely insignificant to things like Eldritch Gods, Great Heroes, and hordes of demons. But they have the added benefit of literally coming back to life over and over again, although for Dark Souls that's not as good since you may or may not go insane.
Stubbornness is the superpower of every souls protagonist
@@georgekostaras "too angry to die" in my case
@@smugpeko9587 No, too angry to STAY dead.
In my case I really love the concept of the protagonists of the souls games
that you are just another loser in a world where either everything wants to kill you or they simply take you as another fool among many who failed and gave up and if you manage to reach the end of the game it is because you were the only one who did not give up and decided go to the end and reach the top defeating deities, demons and giants
So yes, if you ask me, the protagonists of the Souls games could be classified as the most badass and stubborn in video games.
I believe the only thing that defines a "hero" is wheter or not he had to strain efforts to achieve a goal he believes to be noble; if it's just destiny, nature or such, then it makes no difference.
That just sounds like a villain with “ends justifies the means” mindset.
@@svolozhanin7627
Well, yes, that's why they're the heroes of their own story, and why so many people sympathize with them.
@@ARBB1 That sucks.
The best kinds of heroes are the ones who forge their own path, their not the chosen one, their is no destiny, they are their by their own will and perseverance.
@@svolozhanin7627 depends on what the actions are, and some "villains" like stain with that mindset fit into a whole nother category in of itself: the anti villain.
One little ludo narrative moment in all from soft games I love is the indifference everyone faces to your odds of success matches the idea that a lot of players will give up the game before completing it. Most of you will give up, most of you won't become the chosen undead. If you don't complete the game you are as most characters see you. A chosen undead full of confidence and bluster doomed to conced their quest quest like everyone else in the world.
in that sense they become hollow. You lose the grip on your humanity, your will and perseverance.
Lol imagine a game that turned everyone's abandoned saves into enemies to fight. Let you face the fallen "heroes" of the past.
“Don’t even think of visiting Anor Londo in your state.”
*Purchases necessary equipment I need that play through before shanking NPC for negative vibes*
There is one detail that I've always liked about the Souls series. If you lose your mind in the game, giving up the desire to fight and move on, you will become devastated in Dark Souls- a bunch of other hollow ones who have lost their purpose in life. Perhaps a stronger player will find your soul, be able to become stronger (by leveling up) and put an end to all these terrible cycles of rebirth.
10:52 this is why Rand from The Wheel of Time is my personal favourite pick for best chosen one in fiction. Throughout everything, he always feels believable, even when he's being a bit of a brat, because his circumstances are so fucked up when compared to a lot of other chosen ones. The line that sold me on him was when Asmodean asks him how he feels about his destiny and he just responds with "Tired. I feel tired."
Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time.
Another good example of the Unchosen hero is Un Lunn Dunn by China Mieville, where a young girl discovers her friend is the chosen one of a mystical world... only for her friend to chicken out on it. Instead, she takes up the task herself and defeats a great evil, despite manifestly not being the one prophesied.
Felt like it was a bit of a missed opportunity to not mention the Ashen One, someone who is basically only called on cause they are the last thing viable, the very bottom of the barrel, yet are still called.
Plus ashen ones are made out of the ash of those Who have failed to link the fire
Im other words we are made out of failures and nobodies
Re Zero is a good example of a cursed hero. Subaru, the main character, is suddenly transported to another world where death and tragedy follow him everywhere. He was destined to be summoned and fulfill his purpose through his curse , Return by death , that allows him to return back in time through death. Subaru's path wasn't supposed to be so hard and tragic, but something outside worlds fate is constantly screwing his path, and his curse goes against his desires, as it is meant to save only him. All of this unfairness and his own low self esteem forces him to constantly sacrifice himself and his desires to protect those he loves , but he doesn't bent to death and this despair. Subaru will scream , cry and be scared , but he will also do everything in his little power to do the right thing. He will always overcome fate and tragedy with a smile , not because he's a perfect chosen hero , but because his willpower and heart are unbendable. Re Zero is one of the best illustrations of 'man against fate' ideas , and the way Subaru's journey changes him and allows him to learn more about himself is superb. Anime is good , but the novel is on another level.
And not just that he also learns to fix himself
To value his life
To not hate himself
To learn from mistakes
And to just be a better person
I learned alot of valuable lessons from that anime during some dark times and now things have been getting better compared to those times
"You bear the curse with them, the mantle of the unchosen and you feel just as much the hero when you manage to struggle through it." This is the core reason why these games don't have difficulty modes. This concept is built into the story being told, it wouldn't be the same without it.
Yes everyone faces the same challanges
A hero is one who knows how to hang on one minute long.
--- Novalis.
While I can understand the thought process that thinks suffering makes a hero, what I personally believe is its more the determination that does. That no matter the set backs or how great the loss, the individual does not give up. Even when the world around them is saying its fine to just lay down and die, its fine to stop trying and give in.. They don't. They keep going despite the hardships, and thats what makes them heroic. In a way, the setbacks and the determination to not let them BE setbacks is what makes heroes so admirable. That said though, the same philosophy probably could be used in great effect for a villian as well.
Undertales genocide route the villain(you not chara) are extremely determined to kill everyone in the underground so much so that would slog through that miserable experience
Their's a story I've been wanting to write for a long time. It's about a princess of a kingdom on a floating island in a post-apocalyptic world. At the start of the story, she's been kidnapped and escaped after finding a magic sword. But when she returns home, she learns that not only is the sword cursed, but it's also slowly turning her into a demon. The queen is forced to banish her daughter, and the princess goes on a journey to find a way to remove the curse.
Mix that with Dishonored, and you kind of have an idea I had.
Basically, the royal family is killed, but the princess discovers a demonic blade that just seems to lend its services as if a pact was made with it, but she never forged such a deal.
It was honestly a taped together concept that hybridized bits of Dishonored and Akame ga Kill.
Never got super far with it though, but I still have some fondness for it.
@@JustinTK416 seems like a cool idea you mind if I use it in my own story.
@@jakariashafin8685 It’s like half of an old premise, so I’d honestly be curious to see what someone could make of it.
@@JustinTK416 OK thank you.
I love that you guy branched into video games. There are so many wonderful and amazing stories that go unnoticed. Have you considered a video on Nier Automata? Now THAT is a deep story...
Yeah! I would love to see a video about it. I went into that game blind and did not expect the existential dread/crisis it gave me. Stuck with me for a long time. Truly a masterpiece
My favorite thing about dark souls 1 mechanic was that your character actually becomes hollow when you stop playing with it. Just forgotten. When you delete a save the character becomes one of the manny that have lost their drive to go forward
Dark souls one was my first souls game, and to this day I go back and look over lore and it's story. In fact I'm actually using dark souls 1's depiction of humanity and how a purpose can shape someones soul as a topic for my literature class. Time and time this game amazes me, and I find myself lost in it's story again.
Something that always provoked thought for me is how the story of the chosen undead and Hollowing mirrors the determination(or lack there of) of the player to continually overcome death to find a path forward. Every hollow you encounter is like looking into a mirror. Symbolically, if you put the game down out of frustration and giving up your character is effectively "hollow" because there is no ambition, no drive or desire to keep moving. The player in this case represents the character much more intimately than perhaps other games ever have. This thought actually caused me to push forward as well. In a way I felt like if I stopped, if I put things down and didn't pick them back up. My character would hollow. Clearly that's not the case, but symbolically it's rather profound.
I'm beyond happy you decided to cover these games! A lot of people fail to consider games' stories and narratives as literature, which as these games prove, couldn't be further from the truth.
Hollows can’t actually die. It’s heavily implied that those “corpses” you find holding items are just in another state of hollowing. Only you are unable to move. There are a few of these in the Irithyll Dungeon in DS3. They have just enough energy in them that they are able to scream once when you take their item from them. It’s really quite terrifying if you think about it.
Most stories: you have our help chosen one, let our friendship triumph all our foes
Meanwhile Miyazaki: look kid imma be honest with ya, this ain't gonna be fun but hey look at the Bright side at least you got immortality and yes you feel the pain every time you die
the fact that you're not the only chosen undead, bearer of the curse and ashen ones is another thing i love about from soft's protagonists.
this reminds me of the spirited away video I just watched, true heroism and bravery is being terrified and still doing the thing, no destiny or chosen ones just a person overcoming something
Long have I waited for more of your thoughts on the Soulsbourne series. I've had much to ponder since you introduced me to the concept of "confluent narrative" in your last Dark Souls video.
Now THIS is a topic I like exploring in my writing. Protagonists that attempt to protagonize while experiencing torture, loss, isolation and other crippling agonies. I love to ask "What sort of Hell can I put this character through while still making him the hero?"
Tragedy is just as important as triumph, says this observer.
I've always loved the Dark Souls series, they've been my favorite game since forever, the tragic stories beautiful sceneries and the complex lore just make it perfect for me, and I've always been happy to see new people get into the series.
When I say I could talk without end about these games it is absolutely no understatement, they have held a special place in my heart since I played the first dark souls game back in 2011 when I was still in middle school. The setting, story, lore, music, gameplay, I simply love everything about Fromsoft's games and was absolutely over the moon when I saw you guys did a video about them. A huge pillar of Fromsoft's games (to sort of add on to your video) that has been built into everything from the world around you, to the story and music is the idea that you are as you said, an insignificant thing. A mere man amongst gods and forces that hold sway over the fundamental laws of your world and possess the capacity to change it for centuries, what could you possibly do? What about heroes? There exist many great men and women in Fromsoft's games. Artorias, one of Lord Gwyn's most powerful knights, the man who fought back the Abyss, the old Ivory King who plunged into what is essentially Hell for the sake of his queen and kingdom, the Lord of Sunlight Gwyn himself who battled the immortal dragons and their age of gray eternity, the lords of cinder who are destined to kindle the flame again as they once did when called upon, and countless others. But how do you find these mighty and great individuals? Broken, hollow, shells of their former selves. Artorias, crippled and corrupted by the abyss, you put him out of his misery and assume his role in history as the one who defeated Manus and the abyss in Oolacile. The Ivory King, charred and mindlessly suffering within the flames of chaos, the mighty Gwyn reduced to a hollow husk. Everywhere around you, great heroes of legend, lords of cinder, Powerful monarchs, those who bear the very fragments that created the Age of Fire, brought low and grinded into fractions of their former selves by an indifferent world and its unforgiving cycles. All around you the world is in ruins, Kingdoms, cities, all semblance of civilization is fleeting or gone. Those far more powerful than you have failed miserably to maintain order and balance, countless of your kind have fallen, forlorn and forgotten, what makes you any different? how could you possibly succeed? but you do. you Slay fallen gods and broken heroes, you gain the power of those world altering forces through violent and persistent tenacity and indomitable will, you tread through the crumbling remnants of a dying world, each and every time to accomplish a goal you did not choose. Chosen Undead, Bearer of the Curse, Ashen One, Tarnished, one individual from the lowliest dregs of society, must take on arguably the most important roles in the world without even knowing why. Thank you guys for making a video on them, you did a great job and I look forward to more. (Sorry for the essay lol)
Stubbornness is the true superpower of souls protagonists
I loved playing Dark Souls 3. It’s the one thing I feel so proud of for my perseverance for a fist only run. I believe it’s really helped me keep moving in my life and to learn that I’m strong in my own way of perseverance through everything. Truly, the series is a good lesson.
Perseverance in the face of overwhelming obstacles is heroism.
We see it every day in those around us, struggling with health issues, losses of loved ones, financial problems, etc.
We live in an age of unsung heroes.
Fellas always remember…
“Don’t you dare go hollow”
Much love for the soulsbourne series!
I resonate SO MUCH with this concept: The idea that you are a tiny, insignificant speck on an infinitely huge globe, and you're tasked with saving the same globe you walk upon from threats either 10x your size, wielding 10x your arsenal, and/or using x10 your skill; and when put into perspective, it all seems like an impossible and incredibly unappealing task, one that marks you as a true hero if you were to complete it. What I prefer to focus on however, are the steps you take to overcoming that task, though it may take years, it can eventually be done. One day, I hope to find my muse to write a book with these concepts as the primary theme, and simply call it "Zero to Hero"
Really great to hear you talk about these games. No other game quite manages to put the player in their character's shoes - due to their insignificant origins and their curse, all the 'heroes' are as unaware of the world as the player and it makes total sense for them to have to learn their place. There's real storytelling in having to pick your battles and come back to an enemy or area once you've learnt a new strategy or stumbled upon a new weapon.
Amazing how they manage to create such immersive games without ramming story down your throat, but I guess it's likely because of this that they feel so potent - the act of showing a story instead of telling it.
Dumbledore has a whole conversation about how not all prophesies come true and it was in a good deal a self fufilling one on Voldomort's part.
You have good taste my friend, this channel is way too underrated.
"This is not the end of me, this is the beginning."
-We are the Souls, a dark souls song, by the Pruld
I think bravery is the child looking under their bed, but a hero is someone who keeps on getting back up against all odds, to fight for what they believe in.
I've always liked the old thing of the player character being the most terrifying thing in the world of soulsborne because no matter how many times you kill the player character they just keep coming back stronger, smarter, and more prepared than last time
Actually in bloodborne there is something we looking for. At the beginning there is a msg none knows who put thier. But when we read it, it says "seek paleblood" this is our task to heal ourselves. We ask Gilbert about it too and he have no idea no one does.
actually, the Japanese text mentions it's the player's writing. we just don't know what exactly it is or what it's for
One character that came to mind while watching this was Subaru from Re:Zero; the amount of pain and suffering that he goes through is insane, especially since he only has 2 special abilities: A magical smokescreen, and Return by Death, which is a curse more than anything. Otherwise, he's just a high school drop out jock with a thing for girls with white hair, but he persists through every challenge to continue helping someone who showed him a bit of kindness by chance.
Real happy there is a companion video about this because I think what elevates this trope is the medium of video games in the first place. When you have the ability to quit at any time, to give up and never boot the game again.. it adds weight to all of the hollows you saw over your journey. They are you, what you are supposed to be. You aren't expected to win, and the game seems set on making you quit. So it's all the nore satisfying when you break through and win the game
Everything came together so well for this video!! Fantastic work, everyone ❤
Yes chosen undead (and bearer of the curse ) is just some random hollow that despite all odds accomplished their goal. Though I'm not so sure good hunter or tarnished are bereft from "heroic" gifts with tarnished being led by grace and seemingly immune or highly resistant to such things as death blight and the dung eater curse with even in game characters such as D and Dung eater being surprised at their survival and even willingly giving tarnished a highly regarded by them role ( the hunter of those that live in death and dung eater respectively) just from this and seeing a potential in them.
Now the good hunter is more subtile, as they are seemingly immune to most adverse effects of beastification and madness of arcane (stat) knowledge and eldritch insight with it possibly culminating in beast and milky runes outright transforming them into a horrible monstrosities with no effect on the mental faculties and all the benefits their new forms bring, if you dug deep enough you can find that good hunter "lucked out" with type of blood they were injected with being the "pale blood" variant, even the goal of early/middle game is all about what pale blood actually is with all npcs just basicly shrugging at this or outright ignoring it entierly and in the end finding no concrete answer beside being some kind of eldritch blood that might already changed them in more ways then one.
Ps: showing unkindled while talking about "chosen" undead isn't exactly right, as unkindled is indeed a chosen hero (even if being a last resot) with abilities and tools or means of getting tools being provided to them from the start that got seemingly even countless undead nobodies into "glory" (no adverse effect of dying repeatedly unlike regular hollows, a genius blacksmith that helped chosen undead, firekeeper being a loyal companion and helping them to get stronger and a merchant that derives useful items from the fallen), even Yuria didn't just pick some regular undead to make them into lord of hollows, but specifically chose ahen one. The problem for ashen one however is that they are a hero in the world where even Gods have given up on changing fate and absolute helplessness of the situation that the world is in that was thoroughly explored in ds2.
I like how you can be a hero or a villain in each of these games, killing random people who did nothing wrong just because you want the shit they’re wearing (Priscilla), or burning the kingdom because of your despair in a broken world (lord of frenzied flame
Just watched Vaati's new Elden Rings video (which is one of his best imo) and came back to find this gem. Super glad Tale Foudnry is covering the souls games in this video!
@1:05 - my answer to your questions is that I often don't watch or read those tales. Real life is already hard. I don't find much escapism in tales where the hero is beat down again, and again, and again. It becomes hard to take in and I feel like if I stop reading/watching, then the bad things can't happen to them anymore. Continuing to read/watch makes me feel, in part, responsible for the hero's misery - but I also have a naturally guilty conscience.
Good video tho, Benji. Thought-provoking as always. I watched the whole thing. 😊
Excellent video man, thank you! Just discovered your channel and subscribed! 👍🏾
I don't play video games, but I enjoyed the video. Thanks for posting. I might have to try creating an "unchosen hero" one of these days.
The concept of Gwen voluntarily linking the flame keeps me up at night.
Interesting concept to explore I’ve heard about how Your player character is cursed and or evil in these souls borne games I absolutely loved this video! As well as the Berserk Reference love it
This is exactly why I love Subaru from Re:Zero. A curse, major struggles, yet still decides to try and be a better person and push on.
There are so many tragic heros in the souls games. Honestly, I feel bad for some of the characters in bloodborne, ludwig being one of them.
He thought he was doing the greater good only to be met with a tragic end. He is a legend in so many people's eyes but the hero himself became apart of the scourge. When fighting him in the dlc he fights as a beast and then as a seasoned killer.
In a clouded, murky bay of waste water rising in and out like the Gowanus canal, this video was an absolute breath of fresh air. Love your cadence, voice and the analysis is just juicy as hell! Caught myself talking with you over and over. Super interesting video and well researched and spoken. Here for it 🤌
They could be just another sword on the ground. But inside the unchosen reflection to choose and take the role of the hero, there is also the burden of all those swords laying on the ground, nailed in the earth, or charred to a point where it became useless. What I mean is. You might take this role to make justice for all those who chose this and eventually died trying.
Darkest Dungeon is another game where you lead a bunch of broken "Heroes" that I love. The heroes are mostly looking for redemption fighting against everything from simple brigands to eldritch gods and I just love the struggle that you and the heroes go through.
Great video and thought provoking analysis. This game series has been one of my favorites and I think it is largely due to the way the chosen hero is handled. It's like the opposite of plot armor. Incredible.
Your best video ever 💖 I love it and love you. I'm writing a dark fantasy novel inspired by my experience with souls likes, and so far you helped me so much but I think this one video will be special
This is why it matters so much that all the friends we make in these games are Undead just like we are. Jolly Solaire, kind Laurentius, fearless Siegmeyer, determined Lucatiel, selfless Greirat, honorable Siegward, and so many more... they all die over the course of the series. Four of them go Hollow. We only know them for a short time. But in that short time, they inspire us to press on and keep heart, even when it seems like too much to bear. They remind us that we're not truly alone. And it becomes easier to get through the darkness with those little pinpricks of light pointing our way.
The chosen undead are interesting on a meta level. Since you keep respawning, the only way to fully hollow is to give up.
The video is so enjoyable and compelling, great job! Wanted to mention that there's actually a contrast with the chosen one in Elden Ring. If you check for the Roundtable Knight Vyke, he's pretty much the same tarnished we play, but on steroids. He was supported by many other tarnished, he started with a maiden, unlike us; also, he was supported by an ancient dragon in his journey. And despite all of this, he failed to lie when he was just 1 step short of becoming an Elden Lord himself.
Usually in these games, the "hero" isn't even guaranteed to do the right thing should they win in the end. They can plunder the land, kill any and all regardless of necessity, and give their terrible universe a bit of karma and destroy the land beyond repair instead of being it's salvation. The Frienzied Flame ending in Elden Ring is my favorite ending for that reason.
Yeah the Fromsoft heroes are hard as hell. All that despair, darkness, death, hopelessness and they shrug it off, give it the finger and keep going. Killing gods and beings with immense power by sheer determination. Awesome games.
Ahhh finally
Been waiting for this colab for a long time
A hero is one who stands for righteousness against all odds of success, not because he was asked to, but because he knew it to be right in his heart.
By God I Love this channel and the amazing people who create these videos! Happy Holidays to you all in Advance! Aloha!
I... never expected to sob so much at this video. Omg... thank you so much. This.. hits home hard.
I love that the 'cosmic insignificance' as you put it, is baked into the challenging gameplay. These are gods, warlords, legends, mythical creatures that youre up against. Even once your character is leveled and 'strong,' you can still be easily beaten if you arent prepared or skillful. It adds the dimension of high stakes that gives the story weight and depth
I love how the souls games drill home that you can succeed if they keep trying and don't give up hope. Even when you're at your lowest point in life you will get through it and move forward, it's only a matter of time and effort. These games have impacted me in ways I can't describe. Thank you Hidetaka Miyazaki.
Hey tale foundry, on the subject of heroism, the Evil dead series does a good job of exploring heroism through Ash, who is arguably not a heroic figure, but who nonetheless takes on the role countless times
A worthwhile thing to note about the hollowing process is that it's directly tied to having a sense of purpose. Those who have a goal and persevere on their path no matter the obstacles and suffering they must endure, can effectively stave off hollowing indefinitely. It is only when you loose that sense of purpose, when you give up, when you succumb to despair that you go hollow.
A tragic example from Dark Souls 1 SPOILERS, is Siegmeyer of Catarina, a noble knight struck by the undead curse, who ventured out to seek glory and adventure, safe in the knowledge that he'll always survive. But in the end, he keeps encountering obstacles he can't surpass, and you end up helping him out and saving him so many times that he completely looses faith in himself, he even tries to sacrifice himself to help you, so he can at least die an honorable death, but yet again you save him, and in the end, your desire to help a friend completely robs him of not only his sense of self worth, but his only purpose in life. He goes hollow soon after and is put down by his own daughter who you find weeping over her fathers corpse, now all alone in this nightmare world.
Whenever i think of dark souls, i think of the trailer for dark souls 3. The knight, dragging a lifeless corpse to be used as kindling for a new resting place, a bonfire.
I don't know why, but this particular scene just inspires so much emotion to me
Small Correction: In Bloodborne your connection to the Hunter's Dream is due to the paleblood transfusion your hunter undergoes at the start of the game, which is also what keeps them from succumbing to ashen blood, aka the scourge of the beasts. Paleblood in a nutshell is believed to be the blood of an ancient race of powerful human-like beings known as Pthumerians, but there's no true knowledge on what it really is because of the way Miyazaki tells his stories
smaller correction: Paleblood and the Pthumerian old blood are not exactly the same thing, nor are ashen blood and the scourge - all somewhat related, though.
I'm glad to find someone mention that in BB you are indeed chosen; chosen as the one good hunter of that one night, bound to the dream until we are relieved from our task. A hunter must hunt, after all.
Absolutely LOVED this video! I wanna make a story featuring this concept so badly!
I also love how in the soulsborne games, you aren’t a hero, you will do anything to achieve your goal, even morally wrong things.
On the topic of children being brave, I think there's a moment in Berserk that shares a very similar idea extremely well and would be worth looking into at some point. Just after the end of the Golden Age arc, there's a small "chapter", aka a mini-arc called The Lost Children. Narratively, it's meant to reintroduce you to the angry and broken Guts of the first arc after you got used to the Golden Age Guts, and help force him to understand he needs to change or else he will wear himself out and fail.
The entire mini-arc has been focused on showing a young girl, Jill, struggling with the bullshit of her life, her abusive drunkard father, his friends who she only barely escaped from "last night", her neglectful and passive mother that never tries to stand up for herself, much less Jill, and her one comfort, her closest friend, who up and vanished one day leaving her to deal with all this by herself. She's so exhausted and tired of it all that she is tempted to throw it all away and become a demon, just like her closest friend did to escape those hardships. Guts shows up, does his demon-slaying thing, and towards the end Jill is completely overwhelmed by everything and begs Guts to take her away. She pleads with him that anywhere is fine, she doesn't care what kind of hell he might be living, just let her escape from the suffering of living in this village with this family. However Guts tells her that there's no paradise to escape to, there will always be another battlefield waiting for you no matter what, and as he walks away into the morning mist, he tells her to return to her battlefield.
What makes that moment so touching is that Guts doesn't belittle her struggle. She's a 14-ish year old girl, struggling with poverty, an abusive father, and a neglectful mother. Meanwhile Guts is an adult who was raped as a kid, had an abusive adoptive father he accidentally killed, a mentally unstable adoptive mother who died early on and his adoptive dad blamed him for. He has been constantly fighting in wars and battles for his entire life, got betrayed by his closest and most trusted friend, had to watch as all his companions were torn apart by demons, and lost absolutely everything. Everything that Jill had to suffer through, Guts has dealt with the same thing but with so many additional layers of horrific trauma added on top.
And yet, he treats her battlefield as no different than his. To her, this is the most agonizing fight she has ever dealt with, and so he treats it with the same respect that he treats his own struggle. Even if Guts has had to deal with more than she has, they are still both struggling just the same, and so he sees no difference between them. Even if one person technically is struggling more than another, we are all struggling, and overcoming that struggle is worth respect, no matter how two battles compare to each other, both are still battlefields.
IVE BEEN WAITING FOR A VIDEO BY YOU ON THIS SERIES FOR AN ETERNITY LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I've always defined true heroism as Risking your life, safety, livelihood, and anything else you have to to save the lives of others. At least in Dark Souls One, you do just that; living through painful death after agonizing defeat, slowly learning each and every enemy and obstacle on the way, Just so you can finally SELF-IMMOLATE INDEFINITELY just so everyone left can have warm sunlight, and cozy bonfires. Even the Alternate Ending,(LORE SPOILER ALERT) if a bit vengeful, is you ending oppression so your race can have its age, and in the end, you get the kingship you earned in doing so. Sacrificing pain and suffering over and over, either to suffer endless agony for the benefit of others, or saving your species from oppression, and finally being rewarded for it. This is the path of the Chosen Undead, one of suffering and heroism to help others.
I audibly gasped when I saw the title, great video as always!
I have but one word for you. INTERESTING. The amount of storytelling that is explained is amazing.
In Dark Souls, even the hero who beats the insurmountable odds is still not even a chosen one. Sure, the world will respect/fear you as a lord of cinder, but even then it’ll be temporary and the fire will die again. There is nothing you can do to save the world, you can only prolong it and hope that the next people are both able and willing to do it again. In DS3, nobody, not even people who’ve succeeded before, wanted to link the flame. Every cycle is a little more hopeless and it’s doomed to fail, sooner rather than later.
I couldn't beat bloodborne on my first playthrough, had tried to respec halfway thru the game and really jacked up my build. Keziah, was her name and she failed to defeat gerhman and was trapped in the hunters dream. I started a new playthrough earlier this year and SMASHED through the game with a strength build named Dante. I beat it so surprisingly fast I didn't get the umbilical chords. So I took the ending where he wakes up from the dream. It felt very poetic to me when I finished it. Great video btw!
A simple line slives with me from a dark souls comic. "...no matter your 'good intentions', the more you try to help. The more you will lose."
Every NPC, every character we meet in our path, could have lived. Survived, and made it just a little longer; if we never spoke to them to begin with.
That section of the Dragonslayer vs the child actually pulled my heartstrings, what a great video, in Dark Souls 1 we are known as the chosen undead, but the prophecy itself is fake, set in motion by Gwyn to keep the age of fire going, so indeed we're no one special, and yet we succeeded
What I love about these games is that our hero is not only cursed but are deemed nothing. In Dark Souls we are just another undead, while in Dark Souls 3 we are literally the failures who couldn't link the flame. InBloodborne we are just some sick individual who needed the blood to survive, and ended up being strung along by the whims of a god. Elden Ring we were banished soldiers who were only accepted back as a last resort by another God. However, all of these hard games gives us almost limitless opportunity to face these odds again and again untill we win. We are the scum of the world, yet we can and will climb our way to God hood. We can beat down adversity itself. The cruelty of the world has a form we can kill. We become heroes because we had the will to keep going, not because of some God or weapon or friend.
i keep forgetting how mutch i love this channel.
10:42 - This is exactly Prince Lothric's character in Dark Souls 3. He was chosen to be the hero of his time, to link the first flame and prolong the age of fire. But he detests this role and refuses his duty.