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Grandfather served on the Montcalm as a machinist. One of the D-Day support ships mentioned towards the end of the video. Met my grandmother during the 1943 refit in Philadelphia.
The submarine "Le Rubis" is the best known FNFL in France, it sank 22 Nazi ships and "Le Rubis" has the strongest record of the Free French Naval Forces and was decorated with the "compagnon de la libération" (companion of the liberation).
The Dutch Government - went into exile in Britain and so - it's colonies were still part of the Allies - when they were attacked by the Japanese. The French Government - did not go into exile as it very well could have - so Indochina, consisting of Vietnam, Laos & Cambodia - allowed the Japanese to come in and take over. The Chinese had been getting supplies through Indochina so that when the Japanese took over - they cut off that supply route for the Chinese. When that happened - the US cut off Japan's oil. Because of that - Japan attacked the US, UK & The Dutch in Indonesia. So - it could could be said - that the United States fought World War Two over Vietnam. .
The French Navy also had a fleet at Toulon in the Med. This nonsense can all be laid at the foot of the Commander of Vichy France in North Africa. The guy changed his mind more than people change socks. Also the Brits and French had an agreement that neither would surrender without acceptance of the other. Winston turned around to grab his third scotch and the French had capitulated.
when it comes to capitulation the french had no choice whatsoever... the french and english armies were defeated by june 1940. Fortunately for all of us, England had the sea and determination to oppose... Furthermore, french fleet has always beeen known as very conservative, and anti republican... That is to refer to its nickname "la royale"...
@@manuelfraiman5534 Retreat is the second article in the French militaries' book of strategy. The French Adm was given choices and opportunities it was the French hatred of the RN and his arrogance at refusing to talk to an officer of lower rank themself. Despite the lover rank officer was fluent in French thus the reason he was sent. I don't know about you but when an over powering force catches your entire fleet sitting on their thumbs you do whet ever the RN says. He could have sailed away into history and a hero of France instead he's foot note of poor leadership and bravery Just think a combined RN and French Navies roaming the oceans.
France had forgotten 1807! In 1807, the Royal Navy and the Army undertook a joint operation to prevent the powerful Danish fleet from falling into French hands. It ended with the British occupation of Copenhagen and the capture of Danish warships.
and, in reverse, think how much damage these could have done to allied fleeets in italian or german hands... To fully inderstand french response to these compelling offers, one has to remember lasting english french fleets rivalry. After all, he english only decided to not support Germany in the late 1890's, thus becoming France's ally And, more than anything, the french navy has always had very a conservative-to say the least- mind alongside an strong antisemitic miltary tradition...
@@mikeholland1031 a couple of ship were destroyed by the Royal navy, in 19-40 . When germans invaded the zone libre (free zone, administered by a so called french government),the main part of the french fleet anchored in Toulon was scuttled to keep them from being seized and used by the germans and italiens... only one ship refused the orders and managed to escape,. Not a major unit
Provence was not a destroyer, but a rather old battleship . And Dakar was not a fight between two french forces, but a fight between Vichy's navy and english navy; and Vichy forces won the battle.
The fleet at Mers-El-Kebir wasn't so immediately reachable and seizable by either Germany or Italy. So bombing it wasn't that urgent. My guess, though.
the text about Mers el Kebir is excellent, to all regards... Not to be overlooked is the traditional english-french rivalry, that never stopped since 12th century, when the english kings (francophones and of french descendance) decided they were the natural heirs to the french Crown... not to be forgotten either is the lasting extreme right wing (or at least anti-republican) tradition, revealed by the still in use nickname "La Royale"... last point is the traditional rule in each and every navy in the world: "one obeys orders"... Sommerville's offer, no matter how drastic it could seem, was the only way out. To my knowledge, the message was sent in french...
I am furious at the French high command and Admiral Gensoul for not putting the French fleet under the command of the RN prior to the armistice instead of dithering and dick waving.
the English attack on the French fleet anchored in the port of Mers El Khebir remains an indelible stain on the British flag. This cowardly attack is a dagger stuck in the back of an ally who had given his word never to release the fleet to the Nazis. What was done, moreover, for the rest of the fleet stationed in the harbor of Toulon.
So many english speaker spit on French like always. At least we did learn the hard way what it means to be ally to England. France made a mistake trusting english.. but had little choice. England did everything to stop getting closer to communist Russia. France had another idea to hopefully opening a second front against germany. Then the battle of France.. i wont try to explain anything about that.. when a chat is in english there is no use for history.. people here want stories.
Its funny how modern day people question French actions. Vichy France was legitime government of France, and soldiers obey orders. Should they had acted against orders of their government and surrender to Royal Navy? De Gaulle was an mutineer in 1940, with very little following. Time changed things, and redeemed De Gaulles mutiny against his government.
Equally, should the British be criticised for taking action intended to prevent the navy of a collaborationalist government potentially being used to support a German invasion of Great Britain? The British ultimatum, by the way, also suggested that the French Fleet should relocate to a French West Indian port where it could remain under neutral US supervision, by Gensoul chose not to mention that to his own government. Odd that you didn't mention that.
Look at what ships of other nations conquered by the Germans did. Most either went down fighting the Germans or joined their governments in exile to continue the battle from the U.K. In contrast a minority of French ships joined the resistance against further Nazi conquest.
@@mattwilliams3456 Examples. Norway: Legal government fled to GB, never made any overtures to stop fighting, and Norway largely continued to fight, actively and passive, home and abroad, their merchant marine being huge. Denmark: Legal government stayed in country, made armistace with Germany, and there was near peacetime situation for several years in Denmark. Netherlands: Legal government fled to GB, made no overtures to stop fighting, etc.. You dont have a clue that the Petain government was the legally selected government of France in 1940.
@@renesagahon4477 Really, how? They declared war, together with France, as they had promised to do. They sent the BEF, in the numbers promised to the French General Staff in pre-war discussions, as they had promised. They sent a large air contingent, actually larger than promised, to France, and they cleared the seas of German merchant shipping, as well as dealing with any German warship they encountered at sea. Furthermore, their BEF advanced into Belgium in accordance with the plans of the French General Staff. Perhaps you consider it 'terrible' that the British carried on fighting after 100+ Belgian & Fench divisions had either collapsed or capitulated?
When the jig was up 1940 the French Fleet should have sailed to Atlantic safe french ports not get bottled up in the Mediterranean. Italy had a big fleet that surly would attack eventually. Britain took care of both.
No way England was going to see any capital French ships fall into the hands of axis. The French Navy should have booked it to St.Pierre summer 1940. Got the hell away from Germans, Italians and Britain. Get the hell out of European waters for a bit. Use French navy after that to escort convoys from Halifax and St.John's to England. Not smart.
Strasbourg escaped HMS Hood and the British ambush. That got RN seriously think their old queen is in need of thorough modernisation. Hood had her turbines in miserable condition, after 20 years of constant service.
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The German Navy was tiny compared to the French Navy early in the war. No comparison.
Appreciate you watching and have a great week :)
Grandfather served on the Montcalm as a machinist. One of the D-Day support ships mentioned towards the end of the video. Met my grandmother during the 1943 refit in Philadelphia.
The submarine "Le Rubis" is the best known FNFL in France, it sank 22 Nazi ships and "Le Rubis" has the strongest record of the Free French Naval Forces and was decorated with the "compagnon de la libération" (companion of the liberation).
Appreciate you watching & have a great weekend :)
Thanks for sharing this story about the French navy. Seems to be discussed very little in schools.
The Dutch Government - went into exile in Britain and so - it's colonies were still part of the Allies - when they were attacked by the Japanese.
The French Government - did not go into exile as it very well could have - so Indochina, consisting of Vietnam, Laos & Cambodia - allowed the Japanese to come in and take over. The Chinese had been getting supplies through Indochina so that when the Japanese took over - they cut off that supply route for the Chinese.
When that happened - the US cut off Japan's oil. Because of that - Japan attacked the US, UK & The Dutch in Indonesia.
So - it could could be said - that the United States fought World War Two over Vietnam.
.
Very uninformed commentary
Long Live France!
The French Navy also had a fleet at Toulon in the Med.
This nonsense can all be laid at the foot of the Commander of Vichy France in North Africa. The guy changed his mind more than people change socks. Also the Brits and French had an agreement that neither would surrender without acceptance of the other. Winston turned around to grab his third scotch and the French had capitulated.
Appreciate you watching and have a great week :)
when it comes to capitulation the french had no choice whatsoever... the french and english armies were defeated by june 1940. Fortunately for all of us, England had the sea and determination to oppose... Furthermore, french fleet has always beeen known as very conservative, and anti republican... That is to refer to its nickname "la royale"...
@@manuelfraiman5534 Retreat is the second article in the French militaries' book of strategy. The French Adm was given choices and opportunities it was the French hatred of the RN and his arrogance at refusing to talk to an officer of lower rank themself. Despite the lover rank officer was fluent in French thus the reason he was sent.
I don't know about you but when an over powering force catches your entire fleet sitting on their thumbs you do whet ever the RN says. He could have sailed away into history and a hero of France instead he's foot note of poor leadership and bravery
Just think a combined RN and French Navies roaming the oceans.
I like this new series, cant wait for the IJN in WW1 and WW2
France had forgotten 1807!
In 1807, the Royal Navy and the Army undertook a joint operation to prevent the powerful Danish fleet from falling into French hands.
It ended with the British occupation of Copenhagen and the capture of Danish warships.
Just think how those ships could have been used against the Germans if the French navy hadn't been so proud and sunk their own ships.
and, in reverse, think how much damage these could have done to allied fleeets in italian or german hands...
To fully inderstand french response to these compelling offers, one has to remember lasting english french fleets rivalry. After all, he english only decided to not support Germany in the late 1890's, thus becoming France's ally
And, more than anything, the french navy has always had very a conservative-to say the least- mind alongside an strong antisemitic miltary tradition...
I think the British sank them
@@mikeholland1031 a couple of ship were destroyed by the Royal navy, in 19-40 . When germans invaded the zone libre (free zone, administered by a so called french government),the main part of the french fleet anchored in Toulon was scuttled to keep them from being seized and used by the germans and italiens... only one ship refused the orders and managed to escape,. Not a major unit
That is an incredibly biased and naive point of view from someone who very much doesn't know the french side of the story
@@parodyclip36 I hope you're not mentioning my answers
Provence was not a destroyer, but a rather old battleship . And Dakar was not a fight between two french forces, but a fight between Vichy's navy and english navy; and Vichy forces won the battle.
the british had to sink the french navy in case the germans got to use them
The fleet at Mers-El-Kebir wasn't so immediately reachable and seizable by either Germany or Italy. So bombing it wasn't that urgent. My guess, though.
Bo the brits are just assholes
The Plan was not to attack Mers but to get it to see that not fighting with the Allies against the Germans was a bad idea!
We did have kings and queens after 1815 till 1871
Battle of Mers-el-Kébir
Churchill was absolutely spot on , they could have fought along side the British, that's the French for you, end of.
Thanks for watching & have a great week :)
the text about Mers el Kebir is excellent, to all regards... Not to be overlooked is the traditional english-french rivalry, that never stopped since 12th century, when the english kings (francophones and of french descendance) decided they were the natural heirs to the french Crown... not to be forgotten either is the lasting extreme right wing (or at least anti-republican) tradition, revealed by the still in use nickname "La Royale"... last point is the traditional rule in each and every navy in the world: "one obeys orders"... Sommerville's offer, no matter how drastic it could seem, was the only way out. To my knowledge, the message was sent in french...
Appreciate you watching & have a great week :)
this is as bad as me trying to say french words....i feel you bro....good effort lol
A swing and a miss is infinitely better than no attempt at all.
I am furious at the French high command and Admiral Gensoul for not putting the French fleet under the command of the RN prior to the armistice instead of dithering and dick waving.
Appreciate you watching & have a great week :)
i missed what Richelieu and jean bart did ( if they did anything)?
They fired upon allied ships most of their time during WW2.
the English attack on the French fleet anchored in the port of Mers El Khebir remains an indelible stain on the British flag. This cowardly attack is a dagger stuck in the back of an ally who had given his word never to release the fleet to the Nazis. What was done, moreover, for the rest of the fleet stationed in the harbor of Toulon.
So many english speaker spit on French like always. At least we did learn the hard way what it means to be ally to England. France made a mistake trusting english.. but had little choice.
England did everything to stop getting closer to communist Russia. France had another idea to hopefully opening a second front against germany.
Then the battle of France.. i wont try to explain anything about that.. when a chat is in english there is no use for history.. people here want stories.
Its funny how modern day people question French actions. Vichy France was legitime government of France, and soldiers obey orders. Should they had acted against orders of their government and surrender to Royal Navy? De Gaulle was an mutineer in 1940, with very little following. Time changed things, and redeemed De Gaulles mutiny against his government.
Equally, should the British be criticised for taking action intended to prevent the navy of a collaborationalist government potentially being used to support a German invasion of Great Britain?
The British ultimatum, by the way, also suggested that the French Fleet should relocate to a French West Indian port where it could remain under neutral US supervision, by Gensoul chose not to mention that to his own government.
Odd that you didn't mention that.
Look at what ships of other nations conquered by the Germans did. Most either went down fighting the Germans or joined their governments in exile to continue the battle from the U.K.
In contrast a minority of French ships joined the resistance against further Nazi conquest.
@@mattwilliams3456 Examples. Norway: Legal government fled to GB, never made any overtures to stop fighting, and Norway largely continued to fight, actively and passive, home and abroad, their merchant marine being huge. Denmark: Legal government stayed in country, made armistace with Germany, and there was near peacetime situation for several years in Denmark. Netherlands: Legal government fled to GB, made no overtures to stop fighting, etc.. You dont have a clue that the Petain government was the legally selected government of France in 1940.
The French had to learn the hard way if you have britain as ally.The . the Army, the Navy and Madagascar had their own story!
It wasn't the British who broke the alliance. It was the French, on 22 June, 1940.
Thanks for watching and have a great week :)
Up until France fell the brits were terrible allies. From Poland to Dunkirk.
@@renesagahon4477 Really, how? They declared war, together with France, as they had promised to do. They sent the BEF, in the numbers promised to the French General Staff in pre-war discussions, as they had promised. They sent a large air contingent, actually larger than promised, to France, and they cleared the seas of German merchant shipping, as well as dealing with any German warship they encountered at sea.
Furthermore, their BEF advanced into Belgium in accordance with the plans of the French General Staff.
Perhaps you consider it 'terrible' that the British carried on fighting after 100+ Belgian & Fench divisions had either collapsed or capitulated?
When the jig was up 1940 the French Fleet should have sailed to Atlantic safe french ports not get bottled up in the Mediterranean. Italy had a big fleet that surly would attack eventually. Britain took care of both.
No way England was going to see any capital French ships fall into the hands of axis. The French Navy should have booked it to St.Pierre summer 1940. Got the hell away from Germans, Italians and Britain. Get the hell out of European waters for a bit. Use French navy after that to escort convoys from Halifax and St.John's to England. Not smart.
Unreal waste man. Those boats would help in convoys.
The French Naval officers should simply have taken their ships and joined the British. They could have helped bring the war to a quicker end.
Agreed! Thanks for watching & have a great week :)
Strasbourg escaped HMS Hood and the British ambush. That got RN seriously think their old queen is in need of thorough modernisation. Hood had her turbines in miserable condition, after 20 years of constant service.
Velour or Valor? These AI text tumbles are an invitation to leave the clumsy errors behind.
A tragic business, but it had to be done
no surrender
The French were like the special ed kid who gets put in the gym class with all the athletes
British war crime nobody was ever held accountable for
USELESS