Great vid- a big diff is the tires on each wheel set and their rolling resistance. That, imo, has a bigger factor here than the weight of the wheel setup
I have super CX ray, I'm looking on all future bikes to go berd spokes if straight pull, am unsure on some bikes planned though as if they reduce efficiency on road bikes
These would work really well on a mullet, where wheel sway is most detrimental at the rear tire, but if the rim is shorter, then it won't flex as much to the side. I would use steel rims with these if I could find them.
Would potentially like a set of their carbon AM wheels. Same with a set of cane creek Eewings. Just to save half a kilo for climbing. Just be interested to what they can handle.
I just sent some RF ARC 35 and 40 hoops with my Hadley hubs so Berd can lace up my 29er hoops for my Esker Hayduke. Not as light as a i30 carbon dream wheel set. But I’m definitely going for “ride feel” . Thank you for your insight!
Science is hard. I like the unexpected result in feel between wheelsets and tires. I assumed the heavier wheelset would be inert due to its mass, but the spoke difference makes a lot of sense.
once up to speed higher rotational mass will carry greater speeds longer.... Lower mass will accelerate and decelerate faster. As well hub resistance will play a huge roll in results.
I agree with your points here. I was curious though if the lighter wheels would make up for having less inertia by losing less speed in the corners. Also if they would pick up speed more quickly in the early stages of a steep descent.
This was awesome! Subscribed and can’t wait to see what else you do. I think it would be awesome to maybe mix and match the wheel sets? Do a run with the expensive wheel in the back and the cheap in the front and then switch. I’m curious how it would feel and if us budget riders could get some of the same benefits.
Have to use same tires, same pressure on both. I think a good pump track would be a great test of efficiency, every pump is a little acceleration test, plus you carry speed. If you get going fast enough for some hops, you get to add that feel in too. It would miss the small-bump compliance test.
I was hard to tell through the music, but is it me or did the berd spokes make less high frequency noise? (Less twang?). I think I heard the biggest difference in the chattery turns.
Thank you for your time in making this video , Im in the market searching for a wheelset for my Hardtail as it came with a heavy stock wheelset. However as you know the bike world is packed with different options and choices. I do believe a good wheelset will completely change how a bike feels and responds specially on a Hardtail when no rear suspension is helping in the back . My questions is : Would you advice to go with 28 spokes or 32 on a Hardtail? I mainly ride enduro/trail and bike parks and have fun on my Marin SQ3. Keep up the cool work!
That’s a good question and I honestly don’t have a super educated opinion on this. My feeling is that there is going to be trade offs so you have to choose based on what’s most important to you. More spokes might mean more strength/weight but less compliance. Less spokes could mean a smoother ride with less rigidity and strength. At least that’s been my understanding of wheels since my BMX days. I’d have to research this (or test myself) to be more confident in my advice though.
@@ShreddingSpree Thank you for your reply and it does totally make sense. So many choices and as you know it’s actually an expensive upgrade soo you don’t want to end up with a wrong wheelset! I’ve been also told and as per my understanding that also the rims and technology that go into making these rims today keeps getting better and better. The 28 spokes is much stronger than the ones back in the days for sure. Thanks again! Greetings from Denmark
Did you ever upgrade your hubs on the Stumpy? Get a Fidlock water bottle system. It is a bit clumsy to put the bottle back in place while riding if you have a low cage mount, but the bottle never comes loose.
I have i9 hydras on the stumpy now. They’re fantastic. I’ll take a look at that bottle cage but I’m likely gonna stick with what I got. I can bend it so the bottle fits tighter
@@ShreddingSpree Fidlock uses magnetic tech. There is no cage just a mounting bracket. The only down side is that yo must use their specific bottles. It works well with small front triangle frames too. You took my advice with the i9's. You were suspect of the OEM hubs right after you bought the EVO, if I recall.
the thing about wheel weight/material/profile/etc, is its not a simple this is faster than that, sometimes heavier is faster, sometimes lighter is faster, it comes down to the opportunity to use attributes on a given course. testing and gathering data over a large samples is great. and preference can be faster than mechanical ability if it inspires confidence. isolate variables, don't guess, test and keep after it.
Totally. That’s the other half of this test!…. Erm… that I haven’t shot yet because climbing timed laps up a hill doesn’t sound fun 😂 I’ll get around to it soon for sure.
It’s in North LA County. Not a huge secret but we try to hold off on the social media call-outs because of the situation with the rangers in the area. 🤙🏻
I initially set it up slack/low and loved it except for the pedal strikes. Then I ran slack/high and I liked it better for all around. Now I’m at middle/high to see if it made the handling any quicker and it does. I’ve been running that for a while now but I’m thinking I might switch it back to slack/high for extra stability during the summer though.
@@ShreddingSpree I have been doing the same thing 😂 Im in slack high now from slack low because of too many pedal strikes. But I think I’m going to put it back in neutral high as I don’t encounter anything real steep here. And I like how that feels going around flatter berms on flow trails better I think. I put a 32mm stem on that makes the steering super quick 😂 might go back to a 40 or 45 tho. There are just so many options with this bike 😂😂
@@ShreddingSpree Feral MTB makes a +/- 0.5 headset cup vs Specialized +/- 1.0 you might like. I run my evo with it in -0.5 slack. Together in high I get 64 HTA which I love
I’ve started working on this but am having issues with my output consistency. Power meters jump all over the place so I’m trying to go by heart rate but that has its own challenges. Thanks for watching and stay tuned while I figure this out
Fair point! The times are close enough that EVERY factor matters and tires are def important. Even though I feel like the DHF/Aggressor setup I have on the Berd Wheels is in the same world as the Butcher/Eliminator combo there’s still the fact that one set of tires is over a year old and they don’t have exactly matching tread patterns so there’s bound to be a rolling speed difference even if it’s minute. 🤙🏻🤙🏻 hope you’ve been good man. Good to hear from you.
@@ShreddingSpree 👍🏻🤙🏻... Maybe I will run into you one of these days. But riding from the south side is tough, especially up Mario de Campos. Last ride over to there, I did, had 3K of climbing. Was the day after it hailed up there. At least we have some more rain 🌧️ coming on Monday.
I'm thinking heavier is better for downhill. On road bikes a heavier rider will go faster downhill. Well known property. As far as ride comfort that's a whole other matter.
Factoring in damping qualities, rider control, inconsistent bumps, texture of terrain, flex, etc etc seems like a pretty complicated equation with varying results. This isn’t a marble going down a smooth ramp. There’s about 50 other things going on. ✌🏻
You should try a climbing test between the two. Good video.
Great vid- a big diff is the tires on each wheel set and their rolling resistance. That, imo, has a bigger factor here than the weight of the wheel setup
You could be right! Especially for a DH run.
I think it was smart to run it chainless 👍
Love my Berd spokes, had sapim cxrays on my light bicycle wheels before and they were harsh. With the Berd spokes they are great now.
I have super CX ray, I'm looking on all future bikes to go berd spokes if straight pull, am unsure on some bikes planned though as if they reduce efficiency on road bikes
Dude, great video! Precisely the comparison test I’ve always wanted to see! 👊👊
Thank you! I hope it was helpful to some degree!
These would work really well on a mullet, where wheel sway is most detrimental at the rear tire, but if the rim is shorter, then it won't flex as much to the side. I would use steel rims with these if I could find them.
Would potentially like a set of their carbon AM wheels. Same with a set of cane creek Eewings. Just to save half a kilo for climbing. Just be interested to what they can handle.
I just sent some RF ARC 35 and 40 hoops with my Hadley hubs so Berd can lace up my 29er hoops for my Esker Hayduke. Not as light as a i30 carbon dream wheel set. But I’m definitely going for “ride feel” . Thank you for your insight!
Science is hard. I like the unexpected result in feel between wheelsets and tires. I assumed the heavier wheelset would be inert due to its mass, but the spoke difference makes a lot of sense.
Science IS hard. Not my strong suit either! 🤣
once up to speed higher rotational mass will carry greater speeds longer.... Lower mass will accelerate and decelerate faster. As well hub resistance will play a huge roll in results.
I agree with your points here. I was curious though if the lighter wheels would make up for having less inertia by losing less speed in the corners. Also if they would pick up speed more quickly in the early stages of a steep descent.
This was awesome! Subscribed and can’t wait to see what else you do.
I think it would be awesome to maybe mix and match the wheel sets? Do a run with the expensive wheel in the back and the cheap in the front and then switch. I’m curious how it would feel and if us budget riders could get some of the same benefits.
Thanks for the sub! Next is an uphill wheel test.
this would be a good one to watch as someone who is berd curious.
Great review!!!
What is the song that starts at 5:00? It's very good.
Greetings Mr. F. Off. The track you’ve requested is called Glitter Gutter by Conditional featuring Bri Sarikcioglu
@@ShreddingSpree thanks!
LOVE the AM30's on my Ritchey Ultra, not super light (nor am I), but the ride quality is absolutely superb.
I believe the bigger difference is when there is power being applied rather than coasting.
Agreed. Worth a test tho. Will get around to shooting similar tests in more scenarios soon
Have to use same tires, same pressure on both. I think a good pump track would be a great test of efficiency, every pump is a little acceleration test, plus you carry speed. If you get going fast enough for some hops, you get to add that feel in too. It would miss the small-bump compliance test.
I was hard to tell through the music, but is it me or did the berd spokes make less high frequency noise? (Less twang?). I think I heard the biggest difference in the chattery turns.
Great video dude! I would like to have seen this were the same tires in both wheels just cancel out that variable. But still fantastic video!
Thanks! Yeah I agree. It isn’t exactly what I set out for but I think the biggest takeaway is definitely the difference in ride feel.
You would've missed out on some advantages of lighter wheels. Which include acceleration under pedal powder.
Thank you for your time in making this video , Im in the market searching for a wheelset for my Hardtail as it came with a heavy stock wheelset. However as you know the bike world is packed with different options and choices.
I do believe a good wheelset will completely change how a bike feels and responds specially on a Hardtail when no rear suspension is helping in the back .
My questions is : Would you advice to go with 28 spokes or 32 on a Hardtail? I mainly ride enduro/trail and bike parks and have fun on my Marin SQ3.
Keep up the cool work!
That’s a good question and I honestly don’t have a super educated opinion on this. My feeling is that there is going to be trade offs so you have to choose based on what’s most important to you. More spokes might mean more strength/weight but less compliance.
Less spokes could mean a smoother ride with less rigidity and strength. At least that’s been my understanding of wheels since my BMX days. I’d have to research this (or test myself) to be more confident in my advice though.
@@ShreddingSpree Thank you for your reply and it does totally make sense.
So many choices and as you know it’s actually an expensive upgrade soo you don’t want to end up with a wrong wheelset!
I’ve been also told and as per my understanding that also the rims and technology that go into making these rims today keeps getting better and better.
The 28 spokes is much stronger than the ones back in the days for sure.
Thanks again!
Greetings from Denmark
Did you ever upgrade your hubs on the Stumpy? Get a Fidlock water bottle system. It is a bit clumsy to put the bottle back in place while riding if you have a low cage mount, but the bottle never comes loose.
I have i9 hydras on the stumpy now. They’re fantastic.
I’ll take a look at that bottle cage but I’m likely gonna stick with what I got. I can bend it so the bottle fits tighter
@@ShreddingSpree Fidlock uses magnetic tech. There is no cage just a mounting bracket. The only down side is that yo must use their specific bottles. It works well with small front triangle frames too.
You took my advice with the i9's. You were suspect of the OEM hubs right after you bought the EVO, if I recall.
the thing about wheel weight/material/profile/etc, is its not a simple this is faster than that, sometimes heavier is faster, sometimes lighter is faster, it comes down to the opportunity to use attributes on a given course. testing and gathering data over a large samples is great. and preference can be faster than mechanical ability if it inspires confidence. isolate variables, don't guess, test and keep after it.
I hate that there isnt new vids on berd wheels
Would be good to comment about which tires did you like more. Specialized or Maxxis
I feel like maxxis has the edge in grip. But when it comes to quality/longevity maxxis is my clear choice.
Really enjoy your content. Where do you get that hat?
Unfortunately they’re just a couple samples I have. We’ll have merch at some point down the line when the channel grows a bit more
wouldn't a lighter wheelset shine on the uphills?
Sure. Why not test it on the downs too?
Climbing! What about climbing ability? THIS is the interesting part - can I get up quicker to be able to ride a trail more often?
Totally. That’s the other half of this test!…. Erm… that I haven’t shot yet because climbing timed laps up a hill doesn’t sound fun 😂 I’ll get around to it soon for sure.
@@ShreddingSpree it isn't, you are right! But what wants to go down has to go up! :-p
What a sick trail where is this
It’s in North LA County. Not a huge secret but we try to hold off on the social media call-outs because of the situation with the rangers in the area. 🤙🏻
Not an equal comparison due to different tires.
How do you think the Berd Spokes would do on an alloy wheelset?
Probably great. Just lighter and more dampened
@@ShreddingSpree now I am interested to see if I can swap my spokes with berds and how much. Do know how much lighter the spokes are?
@@mellissanash7517 not offhand. But you can figure it out with a little research on their site + knowing what you already have.
@@ShreddingSpree thanks a biz
How could I get a shredding spree decal ?
Hey! I ran out but have more arriving on the 9th. Email me your address or DM me on Instagram and I’ll drop some in the mail for you.
@@ShreddingSpree copy. Your the man brother.
Buying A SET 😎
What bike did he say he's on?
The bike is a Dawley Eponym. 👍🏼
Great video idea! Earned a new sub 👍👍
Hey thanks for the good vibes!
hey brother have you messed around with the geo settings yet on the stumpy? What are you liking the best?
I initially set it up slack/low and loved it except for the pedal strikes.
Then I ran slack/high and I liked it better for all around.
Now I’m at middle/high to see if it made the handling any quicker and it does. I’ve been running that for a while now but I’m thinking I might switch it back to slack/high for extra stability during the summer though.
@@ShreddingSpree I have been doing the same thing 😂
Im in slack high now from slack low because of too many pedal strikes.
But I think I’m going to put it back in neutral high as I don’t encounter anything real steep here. And I like how that feels going around flatter berms on flow trails better I think.
I put a 32mm stem on that makes the steering super quick 😂 might go back to a 40 or 45 tho. There are just so many options with this bike 😂😂
@@sisufitness659 it’s fun to play with and it’s so easy to change the geo you may as well try it all… except steep… who tf would do that?? Jk jk jk.
@@ShreddingSpree hahahaha I tried it hahahah but in the slow bottom bracket mode! Because I’m not a cereal killer 😂
@@ShreddingSpree Feral MTB makes a +/- 0.5 headset cup vs Specialized +/- 1.0 you might like. I run my evo with it in -0.5 slack. Together in high I get 64 HTA which I love
good stuff, great presentation = why i subscribed.
Thanks for the sub!
The extra shocks on the steel spokes stole some energy. The string spokes helped, just like the rest of your suspension did.
should try timed climbs, get someone rich to build you two wheels same hubs. i agree that alloy should be less dampened. enjoyed the video, thanks.
I’ve started working on this but am having issues with my output consistency. Power meters jump all over the place so I’m trying to go by heart rate but that has its own challenges.
Thanks for watching and stay tuned while I figure this out
why do you use such narrow bars?
All the bars on my bikes are between 780-800. They probably just look narrow because of the wide angle camera lens.
What hardtail is that? looks sweet
Hey thanks! It’s called a Dawley Eponym.
www.dawleybikes.com
This is just a "feel" test. Tires are everything, in any form of racing. Since tires were different, NO science, FOR YOU!
Fair point! The times are close enough that EVERY factor matters and tires are def important. Even though I feel like the DHF/Aggressor setup I have on the Berd Wheels is in the same world as the Butcher/Eliminator combo there’s still the fact that one set of tires is over a year old and they don’t have exactly matching tread patterns so there’s bound to be a rolling speed difference even if it’s minute. 🤙🏻🤙🏻 hope you’ve been good man. Good to hear from you.
@@ShreddingSpree 👍🏻🤙🏻... Maybe I will run into you one of these days. But riding from the south side is tough, especially up Mario de Campos. Last ride over to there, I did, had 3K of climbing. Was the day after it hailed up there. At least we have some more rain 🌧️ coming on Monday.
🥳🥳🥳
Comparing light wheels for downhill?
What’s the point?
Uphill & epic’s are reasons to go light… not downhill…. ???
Just satisfying my curiosity John. Don’t worry, I’ll test it uphill too.
I'm thinking heavier is better for downhill. On road bikes a heavier rider will go faster downhill. Well known property. As far as ride comfort that's a whole other matter.
Is this the Saturday night live skit?
Mathematics tho
Factoring in damping qualities, rider control, inconsistent bumps, texture of terrain, flex, etc etc seems like a pretty complicated equation with varying results. This isn’t a marble going down a smooth ramp. There’s about 50 other things going on. ✌🏻
You tested light weight wheels DOWNHILL?! 🤦♂️
Sure did