What Ben said at 8:01 - I tried to change but I couldn't because I wasn't supposed to change; and at 8:20 - my shattered heart needed to be changed/mended - I think this is the cusp I'm approaching
“Christ scattered himself in order to gather people.” - Charlie Bird “[LGBTQIA+] Pride is the opposite of shame.” It’s “about showing people that they’re loved.” - Ben Schilaty Grateful for this interview. =] Thank you, Faith Matters!
Just saw this quote and looked up the 2003 "Divine Love" talk by then Elder Russell M Nelson. That talk is nonsensical. The crux of the argument is some false difference between infinite/universal and unconditional. For crying out loud, the end of the article has a section defining unconditional as "absolute". Infinite and universal, but not absolute and unconditional? I think this is a great example of the conflict of contradictions in the scripture text with the inclusion of what we want to believe. Using the bible as an authority on any topic is very tenuous when you have a genocidal, slavery-condoning God being presented. But sure, let's go ahead and find all the verses that support the claim that God is entirely transactional in His affections, but then say: "Does this mean the Lord does not love the sinner? Of course not. Divine love is infinite and universal." Excuse me, but didn't we just establish by holy writ that "I love them that love me" and that "If a man love me, [then] he will keep my words: and my Father will love him"? This talk is so confusing if not a pure attempt of trying to have one's cake and eating it at the same time. To conflate blessings with love is an absolute disaster. You are trying to make those you are frustrated with to feel ashamed and scared they will not be loved by God, but at the same time trying not to hurt those who are striving to be good but struggle with inadequacy complexes. In the end, it is harmful and unhelpful to the cause of Christ. Scaring people into obedience is a short-term solution that has seriously nasty consequences. WIth an eternal context, the ends never justify the means...since there is no end, just means.
There are far too many dangerous components and pressure points in LGBTQIA+ for me to throw broad-based support behind this very powerful and very politically active movement. Supporting individuals is another thing entirely. I can never support gender indoctrination of any young people under 18. Nor should publicly-funded libraries and public schools spend tax dollars supporting drag shows and trans brainwashing of my grandchildren.
I don't know the 2 people asking the questions here to Ben and Charlie. It seemed the guy was pretty judgemental in how he asked some of his questions. It was pretty clear to see that he has no friends who are gay not does he seem to have a good understanding of what makes someone gay. Having Charlie and Ben on, perhaps more charlie than Ben, even, I believe opened up this guy's feelings and maybe his heart a little. I found both of these men who were interviewed to be so well spoken. They are in touch and aware with what makes themselves tick. I was really touched with Charlie. He is very intelligent. And, had so much great and illuminative insight into being gay. Thank you for having him and Ben on. I learned a lot. And, they are exactly right that there are SO many people, other than just the youth, as this female podcaster said on at least 5 occasions, who are gay: Stake Relief Society Presidents, Bishops, Young men's and Young Women's teachers, counselors in Stake Relief Society Presidencies, etc. Please just stop asking about the youth. Some of these "older" people whom I just highlighted also struggle, at times, with the messages of "better dead than gay", too. Please know this to be true. Thanks.
Loved your sharing, love that we are all created by and beloved of Heavenly parents. Thank you, it always feels so home when we are true to who we are and to the Lord. I’m boring and straight but I am sufficiently challenged being myself.❤️coming together in Christ thank you so much.
This opened my mind in a good way. In my observation both sides need to be more undersanding. Jesus, who we all should look to said to the woman taken in adultery, Neither do I condemn you, showing mercy and then added, Go and sin no more, thus teaching to the ideal, but also convicting her conscience for she wouldn't likely live sinlessly. I'm sure straight folk need to show more love and mercy, and this podcast is a very helpful, but just as well gay folk need to accept that leaders have an obligation to teach to the ideal, and so does anyone in a teaching capacity. Teach, not judge. And again, everyone on all sides needs to show compassion for we all fall short in some way.
"22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." (Leviticus 18:22) "26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." (Romans 1:26-27)
The female host leading the guests that the atonement is not about change but about getting rid of the shame is interesting. This whole idea that they need not change is interesting. So everyone else has to change, but if you're gay or lesbian (or transsexual, or bi-sexual) you don't need to change? Can we include guys who are attracted to a lot of women in this group? What would the Gospel say to someone who likes to sleep around and can't settle for one woman or is an adulterer in marriage? Just get rid of the shame right? Why are we empowering gays and lesbians to have a pass? I get it, if you have SSA and you don't act on it, then you are not a pervert. Perverse simply means contrary to standards. If you act on it, it means perversion. You've perverted what God has commanded. These guys are so well dressed and articulate. Worried about their appearance much? Their degrees? Their status? Emphasizing being associated with viral videos with billions of views. Come on man! The obsession with being different and being so successful (if you consider degrees as a mark of success). Seems as though all of this stuff adds up to seeking to over compensate, to join a trendy wave, to publish books, to seek attention. Yes, Pride is and has always been about dancing in a Speedo. We don't need people to come to church with anyone knowing about their orientation. Just come to church and talk about the Gospel. Your orientation isn't special. I'm sorry if people are jerks to you. I don't have to be an "ally" to love you. Yes, I agree, all these corporations are exploiting the rainbow logo to be woke. If you have SSA and want to live the Gospel, you are no different than people who have urges to drink (can't get in the temple if they do), people who sleep around with the opposite sex (can't get in the temple if they do), people who steal (can't get in the temple if they do), act out on same sex attraction (can't get in the temple). You can love all these people...but as Jesus said, "go and sin no more." Just because you might disagree with me, doesn't mean you need to kill yourself. Again, if you come to that conclusion, know that neither I nor anyone want you to kill yourself. Stop telling us to "just love." We love, we just don't affirm your orientation because we don't need to and it wouldn't be right. No one ever said SSA was a sin. Yes, I sin, we all sin, but I wouldn't pretend it is okay. Gays and lesbians need to stop pretending what they do, if they act on it, is somehow okay. But if you sin, you are just like the rest of us, but no one is publicizing or coddling my sins, making podcasts about my sins, writing books about my sins, or giving my sins a cute backstory. I get it, we need to meet the upcoming generations who might be LGBT. The advice should be to not act on. Your spiritual nature or context being gay isn't more special than those who drink at parties. We don't need to know who the drinkers are, we just tell them not to drink and then come back. Why are you more special? Why is the current culture and teaching not good enough? Why should we change our approach? I'm not saying to be judgmental or not love and be curious why a friend might be so into drinking. Everyone deserves a good friend and someone to understand them. But I'm speaking to the institutional level and response we should expect. It is and should be pretty cut and dry as far as what to expect. I understand there is already a Gays and Mormons website, which is fine. But we don't NEED to do the things prescribed in this podcast, to be preached at, and we do not need to develop a larger and more regular conversation on this topic as if we're all generally in need of education. That would be insulting to our intelligence and would presume we are all homophobic. People leave if they drink and party, it is no surprise if they leave because they are gay. Again, convince me your sins are in more need of different kind of teaching. We all have propensities and attractions. In the Gospel we are to walk a tight rope. Narrow is the path to heaven, broad is the road to hell. There are so many gay stake presidents (says one of your guests)!! Nice anecdote. So big step one is to provide safe spaces? Come on man! If you come to church and some straight members say something about the LBGT movement, and you are a member, please don't take offense, we are not talking about people who are SSA and who want to live the Gospel. We are also not talking about taking rights away from people. More than likely they are talking about acting on it as sin, the Democrats co-opting the movement to win votes, the propaganda in the schools, the gay choir singing "We are coming for your children," etc. Stop acting like any comments about the general Pride movement is an insult to you. Maybe get to know the bigger picture of what the LGBT movement is all about in the news (not what it means to you) instead of playing the victim. The point is, you are loved, you're just not special. I understand you want people to be aware of you and other resources, but the whole tone of this conversation comes across as though you (gay and lesbian members) know something we (straight members) don't, that the Gospel holds the key to all of us changing and you not doing anything. I believe you have it backwards.
Thanks for your opinion. I hear you. I may not agree, but I hear you. It seems this topic is very important to you. May I ask how this topic impacts you personally.
@@leem3299 , I appreciate you wanting to see another viewpoint. My view is very simple. What was unclear about what I said. From a Gospel/scholarly point of view (I have my Master's in History, wrote a book, etc.). In other words, I like to talk philosophically and about current events. I especially like to pay attention to any subgroups within the Church who are trying to be "influencers" and let them know their are eyes on them and on their arguments about how the Church should or should not respond to any given topic. Oh, and I am also the commenter "Latter Day Times." My website is latterdaytimes.com. Have a good day!
@@scottthormaehlen7898 And I'm sure this channel appreciates you listening and commenting, even of you mostly just aim to keep them in line with what you think is best.
16:28 - Jesus proved that showing love, support, empathy, and compassion is not a compromise in moral values; it's just being Christ-like. Amen Charlie
Do you really think Jesus is fine with indoctrination of children in gender fluidity, giving puberty blockers, and mutilation of genitalia. Clearly LDS are largely against these practices however the "movement" and parades and flags demonstrate all out support by having a flag on your business or on your house or yard. Begs the question: If I am democrat that means I support a party that is pro choice. If I fly the LGBTQ flag and I attend rallies and parades that means I am all in the powerful LGBTQ movement supporting genital mutilation of kids.
@@rschow1747 I hear what you're saying about if someone identifies as a Democrat, that shouldn't automatically mean all these other things are true about you, what you believe, etc. and I don't like that polarization. That being said however, couldn't that also be the case for Jesus and people who identify as Christians? What if Jesus isn't exactly like I believe Him to be? Who's to say Jesus believes in the "indoctrination" of gender fluidity, etc.? What if the people who are affirming of LGBTQ+ individuals are themselves Christians and feel led by the Holy Spirit to be affirming? That's the story for many Christians who have become LGBTQ+ affirming.
Why on earth would anyone want to change their orientation? O.K., I have been out since I was 12, had my first relationship then which lasted four years (until he passed from leukemia). I am a widower and my marriage was every bit as valuable and worthwhile as my parents or any other marriage (and I hope to marry again). The "proclamation on marriage" must come to an end and it eventually will. I have never felt any shame or unhappiness about being gay - I love it and so does God! I am a Buddhist teacher who goes to an LDS church, two wards on Sundays. I live by the five precepts of Buddhism.
This was very interesting and helpful. I was thinking you we’re anticipating the resurrection and your gayness would be gone. It was a new idea to me that this part of yourselves was treasured and you wanted to keep it eternally. I learned a lot .Thank you.
Seems like the term "peculiar" is the same as "queer", and LDS are historically proud of that term. I'm surprised that term hasn't cought on for LGBTQIA+ identifying people within the church.
This is a very sweet conversation. But. (I’m about to sound like an intolerant jerk here) I’m having a problem with the continual emphasis on the LACK OF NEED to change. Truth be told. Don’t we ALL have characteristics we need to change? Are any of us complete? No. We ALL need to change. My fear is that with the over emphasis on tolerance we are pendulum swinging to an ignorance of our need to become more like Christ. The only complete man. Lets acknowledge that NONE of us is acceptable before God until we abandon our imperfections and plead for Him to change our natures.
When I served as a stake young mens president I learned of several young people in our stake who attempted suicide (and failed thank goodness)…and I thought and felt that we needed to not just do better but become better. No one should feel that death is the solution to fixing who they are…because all are God’s children and all are loved. edit: let me add I do not believe or feel in anyway that anyone needs fixing.
Can we agree we ALL need fixing in some way? No one should be shamed for being less than Christ is. But really, our goal is to become like He is. So until then, we all need to be “fixed”.
The problem with suicides amoung LGBTQ is not the church, it's because of the depression they experience from the withdrawal of the Holy Ghost. The suicide rates are very high in San Francisco, the gay friendly capital of the world.
All people to need to experience a mighty change of heart. This is accomplished through faith in Christ unto repentance. My Faith in Christ moves me to repent.
Puedes cambiar las configuraciones del video para que los subtítulos sean en español y entonces puedes activar los subtítulos presionando el símbolo "cc" en el video.
Part of "being who you are" is having the freedom to excercise agency and be able to express love as a gay person with a companion with whom you are a soulmate. No different than any straight person. Full stop. Yes, the church not only needs to "do" differently, but "be" different towards all of God's children. Straight people who feel they have any right to dictate the narrative of another individual is wrong. Tip toeing around this is wrong. To remain celebate trying to placate others, is wrong. This is why many of us have left an institution that is harmful and offers no support for gay people, supporting healthy, loving relationships between two honest people. Showing "space" for gay people is deferential and placating. Gay people who stay in the instution, as apologists for the church, but who remain single to keep straight folks happy is a false way to live. Being born gay is not a choice. Church leaders have no answers to this part of creation. None. Requiring celibacy of some members of the church is wrong. There is too much shame foisted onto a class of people, by another class. Would Christ do this? He didn't ever mention this in his teachings.
That was wonderful! I would love to know if Ben or Charlie would like to see the policy change where gay couples could marry in the church. And also, I wonder if those who stay faithful in the church may have less sexual desire than those who choose to leave to pursue gay relationships.
@@bgardunia oh right. ALL THE TIME. Like race and the priesthood right? Except that wasn't a contradiction. Oh, you mean with polygamy? Again, not a contradiction. You mean having home teachers and then changing it to ministering. Nope again. You mean from wearing long sleeve white shirts on missions and later changing it to short sleeve, etc.? Again, nope. Show me a strong contradiction. Being Trinitarian and then not being? Nope again. Blood atonement? I don't think so. Show many any "change" in the church that would compare to accepting gay temple marriages.
@@scottthormaehlen7898 Why doesn't the change from one man and one woman to - multiple women and one man - to an arrangement where a woman is married to more than one man at a time - so there were sister wives and technically brother husband's etc. To now we're back to strictly one man and one woman. How are those changes acceptable to you, yet monogamous gay marriage is totally out of the question. Confusing.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 88 | คู่เอก "ป้อมเพชร vs อัสลามจอน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ZqTVVbMgbo/mqdefault.jpg)
Thank you for being who you are. ❤
What Ben said at 8:01 - I tried to change but I couldn't because I wasn't supposed to change; and at 8:20 - my shattered heart needed to be changed/mended - I think this is the cusp I'm approaching
“Christ scattered himself in order to gather people.” - Charlie Bird
“[LGBTQIA+] Pride is the opposite of shame.” It’s “about showing people that they’re loved.” - Ben Schilaty
Grateful for this interview. =] Thank you, Faith Matters!
"God's love is divine, all encompassing, but not unconditional" -Russell M Nelson
Just saw this quote and looked up the 2003 "Divine Love" talk by then Elder Russell M Nelson. That talk is nonsensical. The crux of the argument is some false difference between infinite/universal and unconditional. For crying out loud, the end of the article has a section defining unconditional as "absolute". Infinite and universal, but not absolute and unconditional? I think this is a great example of the conflict of contradictions in the scripture text with the inclusion of what we want to believe. Using the bible as an authority on any topic is very tenuous when you have a genocidal, slavery-condoning God being presented. But sure, let's go ahead and find all the verses that support the claim that God is entirely transactional in His affections, but then say: "Does this mean the Lord does not love the sinner? Of course not. Divine love is infinite and universal."
Excuse me, but didn't we just establish by holy writ that "I love them that love me" and that "If a man love me, [then] he will keep my words: and my Father will love him"?
This talk is so confusing if not a pure attempt of trying to have one's cake and eating it at the same time. To conflate blessings with love is an absolute disaster. You are trying to make those you are frustrated with to feel ashamed and scared they will not be loved by God, but at the same time trying not to hurt those who are striving to be good but struggle with inadequacy complexes. In the end, it is harmful and unhelpful to the cause of Christ. Scaring people into obedience is a short-term solution that has seriously nasty consequences. WIth an eternal context, the ends never justify the means...since there is no end, just means.
@@cinnimini404 that was incoherent. This isn't confusing to anyone who has read the scriptures.
The wicked take the truth to be hard.
Wonderful, thank you so much, really helped me understand more about the LGBTQIA+ experience and how to love more.
Ros- are you still living in England? How are you? I know you!!💙😍☺️💙😍☺️
There are far too many dangerous components and pressure points in LGBTQIA+ for me to throw broad-based support behind this very powerful and very politically active movement. Supporting individuals is another thing entirely. I can never support gender indoctrination of any young people under 18. Nor should publicly-funded libraries and public schools spend tax dollars supporting drag shows and trans brainwashing of my grandchildren.
Thank you for this. I know I will be watching this multiple times to help me gain a better love and understanding for all human beings. ❤
I don't know the 2 people asking the questions here to Ben and Charlie. It seemed the guy was pretty judgemental in how he asked some of his questions. It was pretty clear to see that he has no friends who are gay not does he seem to have a good understanding of what makes someone gay. Having Charlie and Ben on, perhaps more charlie than Ben, even, I believe opened up this guy's feelings and maybe his heart a little. I found both of these men who were interviewed to be so well spoken. They are in touch and aware with what makes themselves tick. I was really touched with Charlie. He is very intelligent. And, had so much great and illuminative insight into being gay. Thank you for having him and Ben on. I learned a lot. And, they are exactly right that there are SO many people, other than just the youth, as this female podcaster said on at least 5 occasions, who are gay: Stake Relief Society Presidents, Bishops, Young men's and Young Women's teachers, counselors in Stake Relief Society Presidencies, etc. Please just stop asking about the youth. Some of these "older" people whom I just highlighted also struggle, at times, with the messages of "better dead than gay", too. Please know this to be true. Thanks.
Thanks you for this guys !! Amazing talk !!
Loved your sharing, love that we are all created by and beloved of Heavenly parents. Thank you, it always feels so home when we are true to who we are and to the Lord. I’m boring and straight but I am sufficiently challenged being myself.❤️coming together in Christ thank you so much.
This opened my mind in a good way. In my observation both sides need to be more undersanding. Jesus, who we all should look to said to the woman taken in adultery, Neither do I condemn you, showing mercy and then added, Go and sin no more, thus teaching to the ideal, but also convicting her conscience for she wouldn't likely live sinlessly.
I'm sure straight folk need to show more love and mercy, and this podcast is a very helpful, but just as well gay folk need to accept that leaders have an obligation to teach to the ideal, and so does anyone in a teaching capacity. Teach, not judge. And again, everyone on all sides needs to show compassion for we all fall short in some way.
"22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." (Leviticus 18:22)
"26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." (Romans 1:26-27)
This be so good. Thank you!
Leaving the church is ok too. For my kids church was the hardest environment.
53:42 is my favorite. I just adore Charlie!❤
The female host leading the guests that the atonement is not about change but about getting rid of the shame is interesting. This whole idea that they need not change is interesting. So everyone else has to change, but if you're gay or lesbian (or transsexual, or bi-sexual) you don't need to change? Can we include guys who are attracted to a lot of women in this group? What would the Gospel say to someone who likes to sleep around and can't settle for one woman or is an adulterer in marriage? Just get rid of the shame right? Why are we empowering gays and lesbians to have a pass?
I get it, if you have SSA and you don't act on it, then you are not a pervert. Perverse simply means contrary to standards. If you act on it, it means perversion. You've perverted what God has commanded. These guys are so well dressed and articulate. Worried about their appearance much? Their degrees? Their status? Emphasizing being associated with viral videos with billions of views. Come on man! The obsession with being different and being so successful (if you consider degrees as a mark of success). Seems as though all of this stuff adds up to seeking to over compensate, to join a trendy wave, to publish books, to seek attention.
Yes, Pride is and has always been about dancing in a Speedo. We don't need people to come to church with anyone knowing about their orientation. Just come to church and talk about the Gospel. Your orientation isn't special. I'm sorry if people are jerks to you. I don't have to be an "ally" to love you.
Yes, I agree, all these corporations are exploiting the rainbow logo to be woke. If you have SSA and want to live the Gospel, you are no different than people who have urges to drink (can't get in the temple if they do), people who sleep around with the opposite sex (can't get in the temple if they do), people who steal (can't get in the temple if they do), act out on same sex attraction (can't get in the temple). You can love all these people...but as Jesus said, "go and sin no more." Just because you might disagree with me, doesn't mean you need to kill yourself. Again, if you come to that conclusion, know that neither I nor anyone want you to kill yourself. Stop telling us to "just love." We love, we just don't affirm your orientation because we don't need to and it wouldn't be right.
No one ever said SSA was a sin. Yes, I sin, we all sin, but I wouldn't pretend it is okay. Gays and lesbians need to stop pretending what they do, if they act on it, is somehow okay. But if you sin, you are just like the rest of us, but no one is publicizing or coddling my sins, making podcasts about my sins, writing books about my sins, or giving my sins a cute backstory.
I get it, we need to meet the upcoming generations who might be LGBT. The advice should be to not act on. Your spiritual nature or context being gay isn't more special than those who drink at parties. We don't need to know who the drinkers are, we just tell them not to drink and then come back. Why are you more special? Why is the current culture and teaching not good enough? Why should we change our approach? I'm not saying to be judgmental or not love and be curious why a friend might be so into drinking. Everyone deserves a good friend and someone to understand them. But I'm speaking to the institutional level and response we should expect. It is and should be pretty cut and dry as far as what to expect. I understand there is already a Gays and Mormons website, which is fine. But we don't NEED to do the things prescribed in this podcast, to be preached at, and we do not need to develop a larger and more regular conversation on this topic as if we're all generally in need of education. That would be insulting to our intelligence and would presume we are all homophobic.
People leave if they drink and party, it is no surprise if they leave because they are gay. Again, convince me your sins are in more need of different kind of teaching. We all have propensities and attractions. In the Gospel we are to walk a tight rope. Narrow is the path to heaven, broad is the road to hell.
There are so many gay stake presidents (says one of your guests)!! Nice anecdote. So big step one is to provide safe spaces? Come on man! If you come to church and some straight members say something about the LBGT movement, and you are a member, please don't take offense, we are not talking about people who are SSA and who want to live the Gospel. We are also not talking about taking rights away from people. More than likely they are talking about acting on it as sin, the Democrats co-opting the movement to win votes, the propaganda in the schools, the gay choir singing "We are coming for your children," etc. Stop acting like any comments about the general Pride movement is an insult to you. Maybe get to know the bigger picture of what the LGBT movement is all about in the news (not what it means to you) instead of playing the victim.
The point is, you are loved, you're just not special. I understand you want people to be aware of you and other resources, but the whole tone of this conversation comes across as though you (gay and lesbian members) know something we (straight members) don't, that the Gospel holds the key to all of us changing and you not doing anything. I believe you have it backwards.
@@Billsbobsomeone had to say something. Thank you for your comment.
Thanks for your opinion. I hear you. I may not agree, but I hear you. It seems this topic is very important to you. May I ask how this topic impacts you personally.
@@leem3299 , I appreciate you wanting to see another viewpoint. My view is very simple. What was unclear about what I said. From a Gospel/scholarly point of view (I have my Master's in History, wrote a book, etc.). In other words, I like to talk philosophically and about current events. I especially like to pay attention to any subgroups within the Church who are trying to be "influencers" and let them know their are eyes on them and on their arguments about how the Church should or should not respond to any given topic. Oh, and I am also the commenter "Latter Day Times." My website is latterdaytimes.com. Have a good day!
@@scottthormaehlen7898 And I'm sure this channel appreciates you listening and commenting, even of you mostly just aim to keep them in line with what you think is best.
Well said!
Wow! Thanks! So much shared that I needed to hear and learn. Thank you!
Thank you for this! Very, very helpful information.
16:28 - Jesus proved that showing love, support, empathy, and compassion is not a compromise in moral values; it's just being Christ-like. Amen Charlie
Do you really think Jesus is fine with indoctrination of children in gender fluidity, giving puberty blockers, and mutilation of genitalia. Clearly LDS are largely against these practices however the "movement" and parades and flags demonstrate all out support by having a flag on your business or on your house or yard. Begs the question: If I am democrat that means I support a party that is pro choice. If I fly the LGBTQ flag and I attend rallies and parades that means I am all in the powerful LGBTQ movement supporting genital mutilation of kids.
@@rschow1747 I hear what you're saying about if someone identifies as a Democrat, that shouldn't automatically mean all these other things are true about you, what you believe, etc. and I don't like that polarization. That being said however, couldn't that also be the case for Jesus and people who identify as Christians? What if Jesus isn't exactly like I believe Him to be? Who's to say Jesus believes in the "indoctrination" of gender fluidity, etc.? What if the people who are affirming of LGBTQ+ individuals are themselves Christians and feel led by the Holy Spirit to be affirming? That's the story for many Christians who have become LGBTQ+ affirming.
What Charlie said at 23:26; this is exactly one of the largest issues LGBTQ+ people face from non-affirming Christians
Wow learnt more about the Saviours love and the mote in my own eye!
Why on earth would anyone want to change their orientation? O.K., I have been out since I was 12, had my first relationship then which lasted four years (until he passed from leukemia). I am a widower and my marriage was every bit as valuable and worthwhile as my parents or any other marriage (and I hope to marry again). The "proclamation on marriage" must come to an end and it eventually will. I have never felt any shame or unhappiness about being gay - I love it and so does God! I am a Buddhist teacher who goes to an LDS church, two wards on Sundays. I live by the five precepts of Buddhism.
This was very interesting and helpful. I was thinking you we’re anticipating the resurrection and your gayness would be gone. It was a new idea to me that this part of yourselves was treasured and you wanted to keep it eternally. I learned a lot .Thank you.
Seems like the term "peculiar" is the same as "queer", and LDS are historically proud of that term. I'm surprised that term hasn't cought on for LGBTQIA+ identifying people within the church.
This is a very sweet conversation. But. (I’m about to sound like an intolerant jerk here) I’m having a problem with the continual emphasis on the LACK OF NEED to change. Truth be told. Don’t we ALL have characteristics we need to change? Are any of us complete? No. We ALL need to change. My fear is that with the over emphasis on tolerance we are pendulum swinging to an ignorance of our need to become more like Christ. The only complete man. Lets acknowledge that NONE of us is acceptable before God until we abandon our imperfections and plead for Him to change our natures.
When I served as a stake young mens president I learned of several young people in our stake who attempted suicide (and failed thank goodness)…and I thought and felt that we needed to not just do better but become better. No one should feel that death is the solution to fixing who they are…because all are God’s children and all are loved.
edit: let me add I do not believe or feel in anyway that anyone needs fixing.
Can we agree we ALL need fixing in some way? No one should be shamed for being less than Christ is. But really, our goal is to become like He is. So until then, we all need to be “fixed”.
The problem with suicides amoung LGBTQ is not the church, it's because of the depression they experience from the withdrawal of the Holy Ghost. The suicide rates are very high in San Francisco, the gay friendly capital of the world.
All people to need to experience a mighty change of heart. This is accomplished through faith in Christ unto repentance. My Faith in Christ moves me to repent.
Me gustaría que se pudiera traducir en español la conversación gracias
Puedes cambiar las configuraciones del video para que los subtítulos sean en español y entonces puedes activar los subtítulos presionando el símbolo "cc" en el video.
Part of "being who you are" is having the freedom to excercise agency and be able to express love as a gay person with a companion with whom you are a soulmate. No different than any straight person. Full stop. Yes, the church not only needs to "do" differently, but "be" different towards all of God's children. Straight people who feel they have any right to dictate the narrative of another individual is wrong. Tip toeing around this is wrong. To remain celebate trying to placate others, is wrong. This is why many of us have left an institution that is harmful and offers no support for gay people, supporting healthy, loving relationships between two honest people.
Showing "space" for gay people is deferential and placating. Gay people who stay in the instution, as apologists for the church, but who remain single to keep straight folks happy is a false way to live. Being born gay is not a choice. Church leaders have no answers to this part of creation. None. Requiring celibacy of some members of the church is wrong. There is too much shame foisted onto a class of people, by another class. Would Christ do this? He didn't ever mention this in his teachings.
yep there is room in the church for LGBQ and those with faith struggles.
As long as they see it as a "struggle" and not something to be proud about. There are all kinds of struggles. Theirs is only one of many.
That was wonderful! I would love to know if Ben or Charlie would like to see the policy change where gay couples could marry in the church. And also, I wonder if those who stay faithful in the church may have less sexual desire than those who choose to leave to pursue gay relationships.
I wouldn't count on the Church to contradict itself. It won't happen.
@@scottthormaehlen7898 The church contradicts itself all the time, but I suspect this won't happen while Oaks and current leaders are alive.
@@bgardunia oh right. ALL THE TIME. Like race and the priesthood right? Except that wasn't a contradiction. Oh, you mean with polygamy? Again, not a contradiction. You mean having home teachers and then changing it to ministering. Nope again. You mean from wearing long sleeve white shirts on missions and later changing it to short sleeve, etc.? Again, nope. Show me a strong contradiction. Being Trinitarian and then not being? Nope again. Blood atonement? I don't think so.
Show many any "change" in the church that would compare to accepting gay temple marriages.
@@scottthormaehlen7898 Why doesn't the change from one man and one woman to - multiple women and one man - to an arrangement where a woman is married to more than one man at a time - so there were sister wives and technically brother husband's etc. To now we're back to strictly one man and one woman. How are those changes acceptable to you, yet monogamous gay marriage is totally out of the question. Confusing.