This Apple II is running... Mac OS?!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ม.ค. 2025
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Today we're exploring an absolutely incredible new project for the Apple II series of computers.
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#MacOS #Apple #Macintosh
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I thought 68k.news was the Action Retro endorsed news aggregator?
In the year 2087, someone will put the contemporary SoC of the day into the PCI-E slot of a 2024 Mac Pro...😅
I thought 68k-dot-news was the Action Retro Endorsed news aggregator?
My Apple ][E, ][GS can be connected to my 2014 Sony Bravia with RGB cables so I see my games in color.
I also can connect my ][C to my strange Westinghouse 21 inch television as well and if I want to drag it out of closet I can use my Apple color monitor so I no longer use green screen.
Where do you get the card ?
Apple ][ forever.
@@northMOFN Can I gently remind you that TH-cam is a free service and that this content was made by one man for his own enjoyment? 😉
an apple 2 displaying an emulated mac plus emulating an apple 2 had me internally screaming
It was when he launched Windows 3.1 that did it for me
@@JeffGeerling Not quite, Windows 3.1 has a different startup screen compared to Windows 3.0
@@robertvelasquez823 Augh! Well whatever it was, at least DOS had some relationship to the Apple II :D
You did it, Sean. You committed war crimes.
lmao
I hope he's questioning his life choices 🎸
This really does demonstrate the versatility of the Apple II design. Kudos to Steve Wozniak.
Not really. The program running on the Apple is simply redirecting input and output to the slot holding "another computer". It's not so much different from what happened when installing a modem. The apple is basically turned into a very over priced keyboard and monitor (in the server world you'd call it a "dumb terminal"). The Mac card is doing all the work and just watching the keyboard for input and sending output to the monitor.
It demonstrates how far the industry has come that they can put a much more powerful computer on a card, or even just a chip. BTW...Apple did a computer on a chip in the Apple ][gs. The MEGA ][ chip was an entire Apple //e on a single chip to allow backward compatibility with all the existing software for the Apple ][ line. That was 1986.
@@Scanjo Okay. Could you do the same with a C64?
@@basicforge Easy. Write a program that spits out mouse and keyboard packets in any preferred fashion onto the userport, and have the composite jacks being a passthrough like on this one. It'll be the exact same thing, just in a box sticking out the back of the C64 rather than a built-in card. Heck, you could even use a ZX81 for that.
Have to give it credit though, as much as I'm disappointed this is how it's done, I'm equally impressed by how powerful the ESP chips have become.
not “powerful”
@@basicforge Should be possible on everything with an expansion port and a video / audio output as opposed to RF.
Even some systems with RF output can have the video grabbed over the expansion port, and output to HDMI or whatever. See the ZXHD device, for an example.
Equally amazing is the AOL support number still works
That's the most implausible thing in this entire video.
Reason? It still exists
"Hello" is an Applesoft BASIC program. Errored because you tried to BRUN it.
If memory serves, that Hello BASIC program should have ran automatically when the disk booted.
That's right. Just needed
] RUN HELLO
to run it. BRUN is for binary programs
@@SlideRSB It would have to have been INIT'd to the disk originally, I think in this case, HELLO was something like 10 PRINT CHR$(4)+"CATALOG"
@@thavith Yeah I would imagine that the Apple ][ was past it's prime before Sean was born. I yelled at the screen when he did that too. LOL. Also when he didn't adjust the Kraft joystick centering controls.
@@SlideRSB *should have run
absolutely get what you mean about the 'look and feel' - for me, it's about the feel of the old keyboards and peripherals - and then pushing that as unreasonably far as possible is just fun!
Esp32 is a great piece of tech that is seriously underrated. I’d really like to see someone try to pull off a full modern slim OS running from one.
If it has an ARM SOC on there, then it can run Linux.
The limitation is the composite display, and that 'should' be capable of 640x480 or higher. I think I've pushed 1024x768 over composite on a PC back in the late 90s, but I don't remember how usable it was!
...looks like it's 32-bit RISC-V - so... LINUX!
@@TechRyze yeah xtensa or RISC-V depending on what model. So yeah Linux would be great, but considering its low specs, it would need to be slimmed down significantly. I was talking more about a full GUI operating system rather than something text based, and that would likely need a complete rewrite because most Linux UIs are resource heavy
*underrated. I'd (to fix your comma splice run-on)
@@Underestimated37
Hopefully one of the distros that works on the earlier Raspberry Pi boards, has a RISC-V equivalent that can run on it.
I've not looked at the specs of it recently, so I'd have to remind myself.
I'll bookmark all of this, and have a look in the near future, as I'd very much like something like this for one of the other 8-bit micros.
Apple IIs aren't to prevalent in Europe, but I'll get one if I spend any significant time in the US in the next couple of years.
Action Retro: "The Apple II is a better Macintosh than the Macintosh."
Me: * thinks about the Apple IIgs *
"Well... Yeah..."
The GS 16-bit Apple II was the Apple 2 development team giving jobs Macintosh team a middle finger. A developer on the Macintosh insulted the tech demo game Donkey. Bas on the OG IBM PC over its colors. The PC has CGA the Mac was stuck in monochrome.
The Amiga was a better Macintosh that the original Macintosh.
Everything was better Macintosh than the Macintosh
No, the ESP32 is a better Macintosh than the Mac classic/Mac Plus. The Apple is just a VDT for that
The CP/M and PC Softcards are the same way. And GEOS is Gee-ohssss... but there's a GEOS version that ran on the //e natively.
I still want a IIgs they’re such a unique machine in that area of Apple
7:15 "BRUN ELLO" is for when you run it in PAL mode I guess.
That's probably locked behind a registration, because I bet it asks "You got a loicense key for that, mate?"
That's for the BBC Micro I guess... Proper Bri'ish compu'er
No. Has nothing to do with the video mode. The error was FILETYPE MISMATCH because only binary files are BRUN. Applesoft basic and Integer basic files are RUN.
Absolutely, becayse Montalcino is in Tuscany, so the standard was PAL, and don't know if it was possible to receive SECAM broadcasts from Corsica.
@@Scanjoi can't believe how far that joke went over your ead
7:20 Tons of 80s kids yelling at the screen “RUN HELLO”!!!!!
Well, in the directory, it’s a A, so you have to use RUN as it’s Applesoft Basic. For B, it’s a Binary file, so, you have to use BRUN. For the A file type, you can use LOAD then LIST to see the basic source code.
JUST DID IT MYSELF
DOOM on a monochrome monitor is the most amazing thing I’ve seen in a while. And boy howdy-that keyboard sound? Take me back 30-ish years!
I had to play Doom in a monochrome VGA back in the day because it was what my family could afford at that time. It's an eerie experience, with a mood, but the only problem is that "red" and "blue" are almost the same on screen. Soo, have fun searching keys and doors... I did. 😅
@@GYTCommnts my PC at the time was an already vintage XT, so DOOM wasn’t even a possibility, too funny to think back now-we’re so spoiled today, aren’t we?
@@GYTCommnts Actually I use the NTSC luma conversion formula (grey = 0.299 * red + 0.587 * green + 0.114 * blue) to avoid this problem.
That Ensemble 2.0 won me over. Back in the day I am used it in on a monochrome IBM XT and a monochrome 386sx notebook. This enhanced Apple II would have made my day!
"since we're already using retro-tech with reckless abandon" ~ favorite sentence of the video.
This is why the Internet exists. Boy do I love this channel. Thank you!
An Apple IIe clone was my first exposure to the Apple ecosystem. In fact, it was my first true computer (as opposed to a glorified word processor), I taught myself how to build spreadsheets on it using Appleworks.
Laser 128?
@@mercster I think you're right but it's been a long time. Sears was carrying them at the time, around 1989.
@@bryans8656 Yep that's Laser 128! It was my first computer, my parents got it from Sears. Wikipedia has an article on them.
The ESP32 has more power than the Apple II it's plugged into 🤣
It has more power than the Apple ii and the Macintosh it's emulating combined.
That's why I think this kind of thing, as well as all of those Amiga accelerators that use a raspberry pi and that Ultrasound card that uses a raspberry pi, is bit of a dodge. It's not an accelerator card, it's a bog standard Apple II acting as a terminal for the ESP32.
Yeah the ESP32 is doing all the heavy lifting, so its a CPU replacement more than an accelerator card.
@@ironhead2008 It took the MiSTer project a while to get the Apple-IIe core running, but it has, for lack of a better term, more integrity.
On most monitors the chip powering the OSD is way more powerful than any home computer ever was.
someone: what's operating system running on this apple II ?
sean: yes
It's either DOS 3.2 or DOS 3.3 since the catalog says volume 254. ProDOS didn't use volume numbers, but rather volume names. I don't think it's possible to tell exactly which without a bit more info.
DOS 3.0 was never publicly released. DOS effectively started at version 3.1 (sometime 1978) and it wasn't out long (a year or less) before being replaced by DOS 3.2 (Feb 1979). 3.1 actually never even had a manual. ProDOS came after DOS 3.3 but it was significantly different. Can't see the Floppy EMU clearly but it might say DOS 3.3 on it's screen.
Reminds me of the Apple II and DOS/PC Compatibility cards Apple would later offer for some Macintosh models.
Oh yeah, what I'd have done for something like a Performa 630/DOS, let alone a PM 6100 with a DOS compatibility card when I was a teenager! Realistically, getting a used 486 or Pentium was much more realistic if you wanted to mess around with Windows and that's what I did. I did eventually get an Orange Micro Pentium card for my beige G3 but that was horribly unstable running Windows 98, not sure if it had hardware issues or if that was a general issue with those cards.
@@Ragnar8504 You could use the DOS compatibility card on Quadras, little bit nicer than Performas, although the 486 card didn't run any version of Windows nearly as well as real 486 or even 386 PCs, and there was no sharing or inter-operating. When running the card, it was a DOS machine, regular mode was a Mac. I think maybe at least you could get DOS files on Mac floppy that way, and no other. the floppies were normally incompatible
The ESP32 is such an versatile little MCU, people have done so much awesome stuff with it!
*a versatile (because "versatile" starts with a consonant sound)
*MCU. People (to fix your comma splice run-on)
@@alvallac2171 Thank you
This reminds me of the first computer I bought. It was in 1994. I had just started a course at my local technical collage titled "Computer Fields Service Repair." I need to get a "Modern PC". I had access to my Dad's old Altos System 5, but it ran M/PM II. I needed something to learn DOS. At a local swap meet a guy had a an old IBM PC (not XT). With a monochrome monitor. But instead of an 8088 CPU in it, it had an Intel Inboard I386 card. This replaced the 8088 CPU with a ribbon cable, and was a full sized ISA card. The card housed a 16 MHZ i386 w/ and i387 math co=processor. It also had 4 megs of ram on the card. I ran DOS 5.0 on it, but I only had a ST-225 in it, so I didn't have enough hard drive space to run windows. I always wanted to see if I could have gotten windows 3.1 enhanced mode.
I have one of these in my Apple IIe and it's so much fun. Highly recommended. The developer is amazing, always fixing bugs or adding new features.
Soooo cool... I love living vicariously through this man and his shenanigans.
This is could’ve only been created by a mildly insane person. I love it
9:46 Look, I know that "doom runs on everything" is a massive meme at this point, but this is extreme even for that.
HELLO is a basic program (note the A file type), so RUN instead of BRUN.
I came here to say the same thing. I always understood the A stands for "Applesoft (Basic)" and the B stood for Binary.
@@petec123456 Same. I was just heading to the comments to berate Sean, lol. I hope he never changes. This content is just too good.
File looked small so maybe LOAD and LIST would also be interesting.
If you actually did a "RUN HELLO" it would be underwhelming. It's just a program that runs automatically at boot and displays the catalog so you don't have to type "CATALOG" to see the contents of the disk. In other words, it would simply redraw the screen you're looking at...
@@Scanjowait, so you’re saying it DID already run?
@@whophd That's the way DOS 3.2 and 3.3 worked. When you formatted a disk, you'd have a program in memory and issue the command "INIT filename". The disk would be formatted and the program in memory saved to disk with the filename specified and set to run on boot. In this case they did a "INIT HELLO" and the program in memory issued commands to do a catalog of the disk contents.
Sean, you are jaw-droppingly *amazing*. Really, between coming up with insane shenanigans to doing tons of research to working your butt off to make things work to awesome editing to informative and humorous presentation . . . you get the idea. Thanks so much!
This would have pissed off Steve Jobs on sooo many levels, lol 😁
cmon, he’d be loving it if he was still around 😄
@@coldacreHe hated the Apple II, even though it was popular and paid the bills he felt like it was holding the company back.
Software emulation within hardware emulation within software emulation. Its emulators all the way down. Amazing.
What hw emu are you referring to here?
Sean,how and why you have a bulgarian "chalga" music(17:30 - 17:31 the image with the women one) on video selection ? I mean,did u download n put it in or ? I was shocked when i see it,btw greetings from Bulgaria
Very cool. I remember years ago working on a Quadlink board which emulated an Apple II on an IBM PC.
I'm calling it right now: shenanigans();
😜
That’s an insane price for what it does! Only $125? Seriously. If I owned an Apple II, I’d be ordering one.
This card reminds me of an old Macintosh accessory called MacCharlie, which was a sidecar for the Mac that contained a PC clone system and allowed it to run DOS software using the Mac's display, keyboard, and mouse. The IIe card for Macintosh LC also comes to mind.
There were DOS Cards with a 486 CPU for the Mac, straight from Apple. You could get it in a Quadra 650, and also a Performer or two. The MacCharlie sounds like overkill. unless it had it's own floppy, because Mac floppy drives were mechanically unable to write Dos format, if you wanted a floppy to use in an ordinary PC, you were stuck.
@@squirlmy It had a 5 1/4” floppy drive built in, as well as a keyboard add-on that slotted the function keys and numpad on either side of the Macintosh keyboard. It was absolutely ridiculous, but that's why I find it so fascinating... It looks like it was introduced in 1985 and (unsurprisingly) discontinued within a few years.
This is probably the coolest thing that I've seen yet !!!!!!!!!! amazing that you can do something as cool as this is makes me wish i had an apple 2
Cool product. The Apple ii emulator running in the Mac emulator was the perfect touch.
I will say is walking Mac OS more than running it 🤣 but it's a fantastic shenanigan 🤣
As the benchmark showed, this is actually running a lot faster than what it was supposed to be emulating. Base model Mac’s were the definition of slow with low hardware specs.
Kind of why I never understood why people like them, the OS is beyond slow. I prefer my IIgs running GS/OS over the early monochrome Macs.
@@StrangelyIronic They're slow but very polished. The IIgs feels a lot more computery, if that makes sense.
The IIgs is a very cool Apple II, but it's simultaneously kind of like a Mac II, but also like an Intel machine, trying to run Windows on top of DOS. Very technically cool, and much cooler than an 1st generation Mac. Very versatile. Not nearly as easy to use.
i appreciate how you always cater to a wide audience!
That's just crazy. Enjoyed the video!
Apple II in Mac Plus in Apple II. This reminds me of when I found a Z80 Spectrum emulator designed for MS Dos. In order to use it on Windows 10 I run it is DosBox. The Z80 Spectrum emulator also had a dos shell within it. So I ran an emulated emulated emulator.
Just got my first Macintosh it’s a 512k this channel inspired me to buy a vintage computer and work and have fun with it!
There is a IIe in my Computer Room sitting next to a CBM 8032 and a PET 2001 series unfortunately I don’t have any drives and there’s also a period correct monitor from Apple as well. This looks like a fun project to play with. I have the same excitement about what’s going on in the Amiga world with all the PiStorm stuff. They just recently added Wi-Fi, which is definitely a cool thing to have on an Amiga.
This is the video that made me subscribe to this channel.
LOL, thanks for the shoutout at the very beginning. Amused by this as always :)
I think the craziest thing is how powerful the Esp32 is. You can do so much with it without ever needing to use a raspberry pi.
Possibly the greatest thing I’ve ever seen
Wow! I might have not sold my IIgs a year ago for this! I assume this would work in a IIgs if it works in a IIe. I had the IIgs and a IIc+ but I just didn't have the use for / connection with them like I do with my retro PC's, even though the IIc+ was my family's first computer and I played with that long before any PC. The first computer I fell in love with was a 386dx.
Plug in a massively faster processor into an older machine, can create awesome results.
If you hook up the composite 480i to a modern LCD TV video in, it should be able to do interlacing that looks good.
You forgot the semicolon at the end of line 10 to make it run the width of the display.
the A next to Hello means Applesoft Basic, as you do not put the B in front to the run command. It'd just be "RUN HELLO", but Hello is the boot file, so there's no need to run it.
ah, thanks!
*looks up and stares at the Apple //e on the top shelf*
do it.
I just got mine delivered! excited to play with it! Is the disk image for the controller software on the SD card in the unit? if not where can I find it?
Yes, you can find the DOS33 and ProDOS disk images in the root of the SD card. The ones for the Apple IIgs and some clones are different and are located in the "/Apple IIgs + Clones" directory.
Imagine having this back in the day !
This is so stupidly cool that I now have an irrational desire for an Apple II and Monitor III.
When I use cards like the pistorm etc I think of these more as co-procesors which is ok by me
This is insane. I'm fixing up a Mac Plus right now, I'll have to emulate an Apple II on it (even though I have a REAL apple 2!)
This video is full of SEANanigans!
I love it. Petition to make a “SEANanigans!” T-shirt 📋✍️
@@andrew.nicholson yeah we need that!
I have a apple 2 plus and I'm thinking of doing this as well
@@johnchristianson515 I meant Mac Plus (just edited comment) but that's cool!
You need to upgrade the Apple IIe to an "enhanced" one to auto boot the Yellowstone and other Smartport devices. Involves a ROM swap and a CPU swap to a 65c02. Running minivmac in 480i mode actually makes sense on a Monitor ///. It has extended persistence phosphors to reduce flicker. Also, I can taint any Apple II with Windows 3.0 thanks to the Applied Engineering PC Transporter.
'And ye sit runs Doom'
I mean technically it's the ESP32 running doom, but just... LOOK at that. It's an abomination.
I WANT IT.
"LOOK at that. It's an abomination." You might even say that it's cursed!
It's incredible how good the ESP32 is, considering it's so cheap and not only has wifi but bluetooth as well! An amazing SoC
Yes, but can you emulate the esp32 inside the apple2e inside the mac inside the apple2e?
It's a 21st century take on the PC addon for the TI-99/4A. That was actually a full PC which had an adapter box to plug into the side port to use the TI as a keyboard for the PC. An ESP32 card like this apple ][ one could be made to plug into the side port or in the expansion box of a TI-99/4A and do all this same stuff.
OMG I'M GEEKING OUT HERE!! SO COOL!!!
I have seen some shenanigans on this channel but sweet jumping jeebus... Now get BeOS running on it!
I saw your short the other day when DOOM and assumed it was running on another machine with video pass through. Turns out it was, only the other machine was in PR#7.
What a great project. I wish I had an Apple //e.
Wow, cool video! I want that on my C128!
What an awesome project!
Thank you!
The left column of the Apple directory tells you filetype. If it's an A, it's applesoft, B is binary. Only binary files use the BRUN command.
Applesoft programs use the RUN command, not the BRUN. IIRC, I in the left is Integer Basic, which requires you to fire up integer basic before running it.
me : It's too cursed. Make it more jank!
Action Retro : Sure thing!
*runs apple //e on macintosh on apple //e*
I would guess that even though the card you are using to boot from has functionality to act as a boot device when directly addressed it is not recognized by the II ROM as an actual boot device. While the IIGS and Enhanced IIe hsd more suffisticsted meansc to gind boot devices prior versions would look in $Cn01, $Cn03, $Cn05 and $Cn07 (n being the slot number for the card) for $20, $00, $03 and $3C in those locations. If the ROM addresses at those locations did not match, it would not recognize the card in that slot as "bootable."
**adds Apple II to the list of "can it play doom?"**
At 9:07 I was not expecting DOOM. I was expecting a RickRoll.
I have done some fun projects with ESP32, but holy cow. This is impressive! 😮
Simply unbelievable Apple // and wonderful. I miss my Apple from the 90s until mid-2001, it was my companion.
Interesting! You got an Apple II in the 90s and used it regularly until 2001? What model, what year, what age, and in what country, if you don't mind me asking?
7:25 HELLO is an Applesoft program (the A the first column). Applesoft programs are RUN not BRUN. BRUN is for binaries (the B in the first column). Not all B files are executable, some are just binary data (like pictures that are generally 34 sectors big).
As for HELLO. Generally it is just a program that is started at boot with a simple message. When the floppy was formatted with the INIT command, it was usual to give the name of the program to run at boot. INIT HELLO was the most common.
Can it emulate an Amiga and then run ShapeShifter on the Amiga to get back on MacOS?
13:16 Now what I want to see you do is hook up an emulated version of the expansion card onto the emulated Apple 2, inside the emulated Macintosh, inside the Apple 2. If such a thing is possible, you could run an emulated Apple 2 running on an emulated Macintosh running on an emulated Apple 2 running on an emulated Macintosh running on an Apple 2!
This is dead-on detailed & good computer project for retro Mac's.
This card is awesome. I have some shorts showing off some of its features, too.
I'm using the ESP32 more and more in production.
This gave me a case of the giggles I'll be enjoying all day!
Now lets hope they bring out versions of this for other retro machines
i'm surpised that the AOL number still worked
With apple2pi you can control a Pi with your Apple. Then run MAME on the Pi and you have all kinds of systems you can emulate, including PC, Mac, Atari, Arcade, etc. Apple2pi and retropi on the Pi and you have all kinds of gaming options. Apple2pi however, does not currently pass audio or video through. I run an HDMI tv with composite from the Apple and HDMI from the Pi.
That is insane! What a cool card!
I love the addins these old computers have been getting. I've almost gone broke expanding my Amigas lol.
This was pure genius
"sean what" is a perfectly reasonable response to that tweet
Sean takes us to an alternate time line once again!
So basically the card is a computer on a card that interfaces with the apple II and probably just uses the inputs/output system (so keyboard and display). I think Apple had done similar things to make the Mac compatible with older Apple II software as well, sort of like a dual-boot system is today, and it was more or less an Apple II on a card in that situation that went into a Macintosh.
HELLO is the Applesoft program you use to init the disk. In the case of that disk image, HELLO is what is running the Catalog command. You can't BRUN an A file, buy you can "LOAD HELLO" and then LIST to see what's in it.
in all my years collecting I've never seen anything more cursed. I love it. Perhaps unsurprisingly the ESP32 is out of stock currently.
Hi, I think as the Hello file has a A on its left, you can run it by typing RUN while the 2 other files have a B on their left which means you must type BRUN to launch them.
Anyway Hello probably does nothing as this is the initialization file like any on Apple II floppy for example.
The figure (002, 006...) between the letter (A or B) and the name of the file shows the file size.
It really does run on anything.
It's absolutely brilliant.
If only it had an optional HDMI output as well, it'd be perfect!
I'd love to see these expansions for other 8-bit micros, as this is seriously usable with a Linux distro running on it.
We're even going to end up seeing Windows on ARM running on these things before long.
In front of HELLO you can see letter A. That means that is an AppleSoft BASIC program. So you would need to do
] RUN HELLO
..instead of BRUN
Why I'm not surprised that there's a Doom port for ESP32, the thing that runs some of my smart lights...
That's a pretty neat little piece of hardware! NGL, I kinda wana get one!
at 7:15, you needed to type "RUN HELLO" because it's a Basic program not binary.
The letters on the left side of the program name represent type of file.
I = Integer Basic
A = Applesoft Basic
B = Binary
T = Text
this is the most shenanigans ever.
If they could add an analog RGB pass-thru (DE-15f pin connector) so it works with the Apple IIGS, this card would be a dream come true! How cool would it be to run MacOS, Windows 3.x or DOOM on an AppleColor RGB display, using the IIGS mouse and keyboard! I suppose you could use it as-is in combination with an Apple II Video Overlay Card to do that, but it wouldn't the same.