Armoured Archives - Tiger II vs HESH - Tank Testing
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A very interesting video produced by Ed Webster from the Armoured Archives. This video was originally posted on his channel and kindly permitted to be reposted on our channel.
In 1947, the British done tests to HESH (High Explosive Squash Head) rounds, with the target being a pre-production Tiger II. The video also looks into how these rounds work.
The 6.5-inch HEHS round, then known as Wallbursters and later just Squash Heads were tested to see if they would be effective versus newer Soviet tanks.
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Nowadays there are more and more channels that make videos just for money. Half of them don't have a basic understanding of the principles. Thank you ,your videos are amazing!!!
Standard British propaganda chanel...
Tiger tank was built for fighting more than 2 Km.
So the test had to shoot from 2 Km. apart.
the main battle tank was not designed to fight in the city.
As opposed to the very few channels that do it purely for the heck of it and don't monetize their channels if they can? You do realize that the vast majority of TH-camrs are on TH-cam for the money and run their TH-cam channel as their job? Most of the people who don;t have a channel large enough to monetize hope to grow large enough to where they can monetize their channels, so I don't really understand this complaint about doing it just for the money.
Very interesting topic, Thank You. In the British army HESH became the round of choice in the 1950s and HEAT never really caught on. Most tank guns used HESH as a secondary round and the 120mm "Bat" series of Recoiless Rifles replacing the 17 Pounder anti-tank gun.
HEAT didn't catch on as it doesn't work well when fired from rifled barrels used in British tanks until Challenger 3.
@@wayneholmes637 That is true, but the British liked HESH so much it replaced standard AP rounds on Saladin and Scorpion.
I had heard that HESH/HEP worked best with rifled guns because the spin it imparted to the shell made the pat of explosive spread out more, making the hit more effective.
The Fran man ,made my day , fantastic Collab 😊
Works best when spun but has been used in non spinning missiles as well as the bombard in the past and still worked
A prime example of the "improve the tank/improve the anti-tank" race.
Problem with all of this is simple: this is 6.5 inch i.e. 165 mm round . No tank of the era used such gun, instead it was fired from Royal Ordnance L9 which was mounted on engineering vehicles and had low muzzle velocity. As such, it was unsuited for real anti-tank work , i.e. to hit reliably you would need to get close and by that time enemy would have a chance to fire several rounds at you.
The 165mm HESH was used for demolitions and as a backup solution if the normal demolition charges on a bridge failed or had been sabotaged.
I was a 105 and 165 AVRE gunner in the late 80s.
What a great explanation. If you understand something well you can explain it in simple terms, as you've done here. Well done.
Even if the crew did survive, I imagine the concussion alone would have them seriously rethinking their life choices and that they might just be better off as POWs
Such a mean thing to do to a helpless tank; Did they give no thought to history? :)
They had oodles of them available...and they cost nothing
Research loves those conditions......
even if the "straw men" might object....
Thank you. As has been said, the test target was slightly out of context but the results are still interesting.
Thank you for making this interesting and informative video for us.
Very good! Definitely learned something ( besides the fact that the YT algos aren't kind to you!)
This is the Tiger shown at Haustenbeck with the front end of the gun blown-off. Though the front view shown here is very low res it matched well with the front views taken in 1945. Only the turret of the 'Plessis' Tiger was shipped to England.
Never seen something like this. Earned my sub.
Excellent content, as always.
Glad you enjoyed it. Make sure to check Armoured Archives channel for other videos on allied vehicles.
Telling us that HESH is ineffective when fired through a smooth bore barrel is not dispelling the "myth" that HESH requires a rifled barrel. Interesting video though, thanks.
Very interesting video, thanks!
Can’t wait for Andrew Hills book on the subject.
I need more content like this.
Makes sense why loads of nations went with thin armor rather than going heavies for their mbts
Great Video 👍👍👍
Excellent details about the brutal effects of Hesh. Though it is too bad they didn’t have ballistic gelatin instead of straw. That might have revealed how much damage the shockwave, even in air, might have caused. Though the fragmentation damage to the dummies was scary enough.
Love these kind of videos
Glad you enjoyed. Make sure to check @armouredarchives8867 for more.
The alloy was lacking in molybdenum and manganese by then
A couple observations:
Scab moves at up to one-half detonation velocity of the explosive used. Given that high explosive compositions in WW II were based upon TNT & RDX (plus plasticizers) the scab could be at 3,000 to 3,500 m//s. A 74 # lump of steel is akin having a Naval 5.25” QF shell … 200” is enough metal from a 8” howitzer.
The Soviet post-war tanks T-34, T-54 & JS-2/3, all used cast armor for the turrets - no welds (maybe the roof plate). One wonders if this has much difference on the overall structural damage. Given the cramped volumes of these the effects on the crew would be no better.
So the Churchill AVRE was the ideal Tiger II hunter? Better hope the Tiger II hasn’t got the Churchill in its gunsight if all that results is a hit like the first or the second test. The Tiger II probably could send two 8.8 cm Pzgr 39 into the Brit before the Churchill could load a follow round. 😉
There will be a full book out in a year or two on the development of HESH.
The Churchill might have trouble surviving while getting to the ideal 50 metre range for optimum HESH performance....
Excellent video 🎉
You got a new subscriber 🎉
Glad you enjoyed. Please make sure to check Armoured Archives channel for more informative videos.
Nice looking tank.
Interesting. I wonder how difficult the rebuild would be on the Tiger 11 :)
The poor old girl getting shot to bits!!! With hindsight, imo, a waste of a valuable piece of kit! I totally appreciate thinking during or post war wasnt the same! 🙂 I have visited the Bovington Tank Museum and stood next to the Tiger 1 there, awesome machine and you kinda think how anything could get through the armour! I just wish there were more preserved driving examples around!
What caliber and type was the gun on the Churchill tank near the start of the post please? Thanks for the break down of the ammo.
impressive that the tiger ll didn't completely break in to pieces 6 inch gun from 50 yards. that's a light cruissr gun, try that bad boy on any other well tank
Important testing but so sad to see a Tiger II destroyed like this. Easily could’ve been put in a Museum.
Very informative videos...It's a shame we destroyed all those historic vehicles..
Glad you enjoyed. Please make sure to check Armoured Archives channel for more informative videos.
I pressed like, but i was already subscriber
Alexander Volgin has a comprehensive book on this, development and tests
I got confused a few times with "left" and "right" seemingly getting mixed up...
I wonder what iteration of the tiger2 they tested...
I looked at a piece of 4" thick class A armor that was hit by 75mm recoilless rifle HEP round at Ft. Knox nice serving plate size chunk of armor was parked on the side of the display with the armor. A real nasty warhead was the Bat ATGM warhead hemisphere of aluminum around half an inch thick around 6" in diameter backed by a large charge of very high velocity explosive. Self-forging fragment able to gut a T-54/55 with the combustion of the vaporized aluminum after penetration. Warhead was good the Bat itself was a first US attempt at Wire Guidance and was very hard to control. The former online posts on the system have been pulled since Iran was shipping copper ones to use in IED into Iraq while US troops were still in combat there. The US used Entac, SS-10 and SS-11 along with the Recoilless rifles before the Dragon and TOW systems went into production. I trained Anti-Tank gunners in the US Army on the Reserve side. I retired after 27 years 2 active the rest reserve side in Dec 1998.
I’d be interested to see the same shots but at distance of say 500 yards
In 2024 this test would be criminal to tiger 2 fanboys.
Dunno about a round that can be defeated by throwing on some track links
ICI were the company that produced the first poison gases used by the British in WW1
Now, if you shot it at a thousand meters, how would that affect the rounds' impact.
Better impact angle but a bit iffy at hitting at that range 500 meters would be better.
So... My question is... Can we stop hesh with cheese? And how thick it is?
mmm, Nobels 808,, Bang Head!
6.5 inch? Tell me which british or allied operational tank had such a gun. That sounds more like an artillery gun...or get i something wrong?😉❣️🙏
Entertaining, but..Well, entertaining.
To be real interesting they should have done simular tests to opposing vehicles from the same period. And if it was not to test the vehicle, why not test it on Soviet tanks ? They were much more likely to meet a Soviet tank than a Tiger II, as the cold War was just starting
"but that won't trigger Wehraboos half as much as slapping this Tiger will"
on point lmao
I was all for subscribing to the channel before that …also what is the point, they are comparing a 1944 era vehicle to a 1948 round.
@@meht43-BringitBadger triggered wehraboo detected
@pukalo
Grow up.
Yeah, great guns you Brits had! They could effectively dent a Tiger II!
About 3 years late!
You realized they used the Tiger II as target practise because it was the only thing available coming at least close to an IS-3.
Just the ameriboos will be hurt thinking there was no hesh to fire at this magnificent machine during the war. People shouting wehraboo have been presented with facts that have triggered them so the fingers go in the ears and out comes bullshit.
12:55...Meh...-Most loaders grab'd on tha fly as replacement personnel by any Panzer vehicles C.O, greatly benefit'd from such pride of position by being of a shorter stature, or vertically challenge'd nature as it was, although intact feet n' legs def assist in going about such a laborious n' taxing task, yes?
-The smallest guy in the crew sweatily accessing n' swing'n around the heft of 25 LB+, 33 inch long individual rounds of KWK43 8.8cm L71 ammo within the tight confines of the T2's turret or chassis sponson's....
-Akin to the smallest guy in any squad or infantry fire team being given the the big n' heavy 7.62 x 51cal 'Light-ish' MG to cursedly pack around all day n' get behind when things get hot, but hes a MUCH smaller more mobile & challenging target 'ta hit than say, a lumbering 68-70 ton behemoth, heavily laboring itself over battlefield terrain @ 9 or so HP per TON of vehicle weight!.....;)
~Great vid presenting interior vehicle spalling effects quite nicely!
-Interesting how things eventually all return full circle eh? -From the early WW1-WW2 crew experiences, fore-going the more rapid construction method of riveted armored plates/panels affix'd to the vehicles own chassis framework, due to the large rivets themselves taking exterior strikes, often becoming interior hi-velocity projectiles worse than the caliber of the incoming found itself....
-The "White-Lab Coat Clad Wizards, Bearing Slide-Rule's, Calculators n' Clipboards" Only to then begin employing the energy-transference process of breaking off huge scabs of armor, interior items &/or fittings, transforming them into quite lethal projectiles themselves. Even large interior PAINT CHIPS n' flakes, moving @ such immense velocities, were they to strike crew-members in the Right-Wrong physical location, could prove to be quite dangerous &/or lethal!?....
-Versus using the massive kinetic energy, or sheer weight combined/squared with/to velocity to be used for the direct penetration of armor w/main-gun tank shells, HVAP tungsten sub-caliber projectiles, or penetrating APHE tandem-sub-cal munitions to accomplish the task.....
Had an ICI cap & stubbie cooler which both eventual crumbled to dust , blasting NT Oz
How realistic is it firing founds from 50-60 meters away?
For HESH it doesn't matter as it is not really velocity dependent. Firing from such close range just increases their accuracy.
Indeed, for most tests when you see something like "2000m" it's normally fired from only ~50m, but with reduced propellant so the impact velocity is correct for the range they're simulating. Again, this is just so they have the accuracy necessary to hit what they want to and get good test data.
Vaporized to horse feed …..ooof
My grandpa told me they never used scarecrow type puppets (due to them being to easy to burn and leave no indication of where the shrapnel hit), he said they used dead people from the local hospitals and shelters. people that were never missed. It let the surgeons see what sort of damage would be done and they tested things like flak jackets the same way.
When I die, I want then to use me for sauch experiments, my dead body could still be use to save a young man one day
Poor beast 😢
Imagine HESH actually destroying tanks in WT 😂
Last time I used the Conqueror I fired a HESH round at a BMP 1 and it bloody bounced! I hit it squarely on the flat side and it bounced! How Gaijin does HESH bounce? especially when it hits a bean can on tracks.
In all honesty I’m still a bit annoyed about it😂
*warthunder be like* HIT
Rather dissapointing results of early british HESH
Out of about 10!! Shots only 3 carved a hole into the Tiger 2 armor which should have been rather *Ineffectiv* against these Rounds...
Now regarding the Crew inside, those were almost always ina MUCH Worse Situation after Impact than the Tiger 2 itself
The whole point of HESH is that it doesn't need to make a hole so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.
@@wayneholmes637 But If IT does Not make a whole it will Not incapacitate the Crew and Most likely Not even Take Out the Tank
Great video, with all due respect to the straw men, I doubt the crew would have survived any of these strikes.
Toward the end of the war, Germany was running seriously short of rare metals for alloying steel and had to use inferior substitutes. Cracking of the armour was one consequence and I would bet this Tiger 2 was affected. Still impressive, though.
a 165mm HEAT or HE could have wipe a panter, the 122mm Russian dun was able of it, HESH could be good but with such a huge warhead it is victory all time.
this was the worst tank for HESH testing. The technology was already poorly followed by the Germans. Acute shortage of chromium, nickel, manganese, molybdenum. These tanks broke and burst from such guns that could not do anything to Tiger 1
A shame they couldn't have found an even more rare historical item to destroy while learning nothing useful about post ww2 tank combat. Was that your point or do you just stir the pot like the other Brit making video after video about how every piece of military hardware made by the US is crap? Have a thumbs down, not for the actual content but for being a troll.