I came back to this video today for a refresher, having watched it a year or so ago. This is such a good clear summary of the various voicings that can be used.
As a classically trained conductor/composer but an absolute jazz lover too I found these videos outstanding. Well explained, no time wasting, great examples. Keep them coming. You are a very good tutor indeed. Thanks!
Oh man, I love seeing such a small channel with such amazing quality and craftsmanship put into it, because I can clearly tell you really care about the subject matter and teaching it to other people so they can become great like you. I just know this channel is going to blow up someday, just you wait! On a side note, I would really love to see a video about arranging for rhythm section and also about the basic structure and form of a big band piece, as I feel there are a staggering lack of videos covering those topics. Thanks for doing what you do!
Those are both excellent topics. I was definitely planning on covering drum notation soon, so it would make sense to cover the other parts too. Maybe a short series. Form is also a killer topic. I have some really polarizing opinions about song form in jazz ensemble. I’ll think about the best way to present it.
I personally like mixing things, just like you do in Part 2 of Girl From Ipanema video. For example starting in unison for a few notes, then going into two - part for the next few notes, and then closed voicing towards the end of the phrase, sometimes ending on drop two for the last chord. Depends on the pitch of the notes themselves in the top melody, of course. I usually use 4 saxes, ts, ts, as, as, with bari oscillating in lower register - roots etc.longer notes, quasi accompaniment, oftentimes playing in pair more with trombones than with a sax section. Love your entire series of videos.
I really enjoy learning how music works. Thank you for sharing all of this. I don't have any intention of writing a piece, but the knowledge I'm gaining from your videos will, I hope, make me a better player.
Brilliant brilliant video Elliott. As a sax player I particularly enjoyed that one. The wrap up at the end when we have the opportunity to hear all voicings is incredibly useful ! Keep it up !
Thank you Thank you Thank you!!!!! Great refresher. It’s been over a decade since I’ve written for big band and I just got hired to write for an artist and this was what I needed 👍🏾😢
Amazing - the showcase of all the techniques at the end really did show the differences beautifully. Off to check out Orchestrating a four trumpet section next.
The drop 2 explanation for saxes here is awesome; I've been getting it wrong by dropping the two to the tenor 2 and then filling in the bari sax, which led to too close intervals between tenor 2 and bari.
I'm likely to get buried under a whole bunch of comments like this but just wanted to say thank you so so much for making these man! Unbelievably useful. thank you
Great Video. Thanks! I often I write 2nd Alto as two part first, because in my opinion this part is most difficult in terms of good voice leading. Afterwards I add the remaining Saxes and do drop 2 or close position voicings according to the choice I made when writing the 2nd alto. It also fixes problems with tensions between first and second voice and doesn't feel too generic.
Thank you so much for these videos! Keyboardist dragged into arranger role and these have been super helpful! (... in addition to real world experience gained simply by doing and learning)
Hi, I’m a pianist and composer but new to horn arranging, I’m trying to demystify it. Great videos thus far, what I’d like to see is a video on writing for, say, cruise ship horn section, ie where you may have players doubling up parts such as flute&clarinet, alto&clarinet, alto&tenor. This would be extremely useful for me as I work on ships and would like to be able to get a solid grip on doing my own arranging.
My simplest advise is… don’t over complicate it. Make sure you give the players enough time to make the switch, and make sure that you write each of the instruments in their comfortable ranges. I recommend you check out the Don Sebesky arranging book: The Contemporary Arranger
Great video. For those watching, the next step is to mix up these techniques within the phrase, to align with the range/contour of the phrase and your preference for impact.
Hey Elliot, love your explanations! Going way outside the box, I just finished an arrangement for woodwind quintet. One part called for a jazz sound. I used the Drop 2 technique and it worked perfectly! Each Instrument ended up in it's best range! Thank you for doing your videos. Keep up the great work.
Great lesson. Very comprehensive. I have a small nit, though: I disagree that drop2/4 voicing only has to do with tempo. I think the register matters more than tempo. In your example, you violate lower interval limits between the bari and tenor 2 parts, and it sounds muddy at any tempo. If this whole example was up an octave, it would sound pretty good at a medium-fast tempo.
Last time I struggled with three part sax harmony (A, A, T). One interresting approach, that I never heard of is spread upper structure triads. It gives you massive sound and full harmony on slow melodies with just three reeds. Also quartals are awesome.
@@PandemoniumBigBand bassicaly, you stack fourths down from the melody note. You get some pretty chords with lots of extensions. You can use third or fifth, when you get to avoid notes, but the general idea is this.
VERY glad I watched this. I did drop 2 drop 4 incorrectly. Dropped octaves but didn't realise I needed to switch instruments to account for ranges. I was left scratching my head and ended up pitching everything up by an octave to compensate for notes dropping out of range, when I should have just used the bari. Then I rationalised that although it sounded a lot squeakier, at least all the notes were being played. Yes I am an idiot. Thanks again! All hail lifelong learning.
Thanks. I know the purpose of these videos is to write for big bands but I would love if at some point you could talk about smaller bands. I'm trying to put together a big band but so far I only have a clarinet an alto sax and a trumpet. When writing for them I encounter problems of registration, volume, choice of notes... The problem of managing scarcity. Gracias. Sé que el propósito de estos videos apunta a la escritura para big bands pero me encantaría que en algún momento pudieras hablar de conjuntos más chicos. Estoy tratando de armar una big band pero hasta ahora sólo tengo un clarinete un saxo alto y una trompeta. Al escribir para ellos encuentro problemas de registro, de volumen, de elección de notas... El problema de administrar la escasez.
Very much justified addition to all that has been written and said on the subject so far! Suggestion and wish: Video on 3part writing: Old style (New Orleans &...) as well as Pop Horn section writing. I know, there is something out on that too, but nothing, that is very coherent (to my knowledgde) Thanks a lot and: Keep up the good work and the good mood!
I like your video's but most of the stuff I know (I have been composing for serveral years). But if you could make a in depth lesson on counterpoint in Big Band arrangement, that would be great! :)
It is immensely helpful to hear the examples played back to back by a great player! Thanks to you and your band member for putting in the extra time. I am an amateur musician arranging a tune for our adult learners jazz combo. The horn section is two trumpets, violin and tenor sax... Have you experienced mixing strings into a horn section, or do you have any ideas about which voicing structure would sound best?
It really depends on the range of the line on which of these "techniques" to use. The drop 2 drop 4 gets way too low in the lower 3 saxes in this musical example. Best choice could be a combination of unison and drop 2 drop 4.
Thanks Elliot and thanks to Caesar for recording the saxes and keeping them so beautifully in tune! I use drop 2 voicing quite a bit for the clarity of line but we tend to not play too much at really fast tempos. Gonna start working on a Samba soon so that will require a different approach. I'm mainly looking for unisons and 2 part harmony.
Excellent explanations of the basics. Always good to review the basics no matter how experienced one might be. Btw, in general, what was the most common voicing used in big band music of the 30s? Thanks.
Good job! I find that I use Drop 2 not only for harmonic richness, but also for exposing that lead alto line more. Sometimes close voicings must create a 2nd between the first two altos. If you don't want the "rub" of a 2nd, drop 2 is an easy way to open the interval between the altos. Again, excellent job!
In my experience, Drop 2 doesn't add any harmonic richness... it just spreads the voices out. You should never write 2nd alto closer than a minor 3rd from the lead. There is always a solution to avoid that "rub." Often the best closed voicing involves either using the root, or leaving out the 7th (and using the 13 instead). That is OK. I've found that consistency in my voicing is more important than getting every harmony under each melody note.
@@PandemoniumBigBand yeah, I remembered something you said in the video incorrectly--that's why I made the comment about richness. I use the minor 3rd interval "rule" interval as well! Again, great job from a fan in Texas...
I love the videos. Hey may you please make a video about how you make Sibelius swing right accordingly with the articulations. I remember you posted something about it on FB. Thanks
Ah man Why didn't I find these earlier! Thankyou Elliot thankyou! So.... Supersax, closed, Bari doubling Alto 1 at the Octave? Glenn Miller, same but clarinet instead of alto 1?
Great info. Thank you for sharing! Presently I'm working with a small student jazz ensemble with trumpet, alto sax, trombone, and bari sax. Sometimes I find that 4-part writing doesn't always sound cohesive for this combination of instruments and players. I have recently taken to giving the trumpet or alto the melody and then giving the other one of them a harmony (so just 2-part) but then doubling the 2-parts down an octave with the bone and bari. I like the results, but is this even a thing?
Thanks for all these important technique! But I have a question with 4-part drop 2 and 4 parts w/ bari roots. In the video, you said you would use bari roots when bari is "into the weeds" and "obscures the root," but in your example, you only switched bari with tenor in the same range, which still entangles the root. So is it something other than voice range that prompts you to drop bari?
@@PandemoniumBigBand Of course. After all, you know exactly what and where you want to get. I propose a "tool" to speed it up. Beyond any doubt, your videos are amazing and I learned a lot (despite what I already knew) of new things. Great job and I regret finding them so late.
In your closed voicing video, you said to leave out the root note of the chord unless the melody is playing the root or the third, but in your example of closed voicing, the chord is a Cm7, Tenor 1's first note is a C, and Alto 1 is playing the fifth of the chord. Is there something I'm missing here that's really basic knowledge?
Hi Elliot thank you for all this! so helpful. Question, on my arrangement I have a two bar melody played by the top Alto and Trumpet where it ends with an eighth note tied to a Whole Note in the next measure(3rd bar) . The remaining Saxes- (4) play a counter line , what are the best tones to add there? Bbmin7- Eb7 in same bar. Thank you.
Elliot, you are a blessing. You explain things practically and portray challenges as practical, no-big-deal matters with solutions. In this video I loved your how to make four saxes sound like five when an alto or tenor is playing a solo. Now I know! Your information is invaluable and equally important is your encouraging attitude. Thank you.
great as always thanks so much for sharing, I would like to know, what are your favorite extended form pieces for big band?, Im currently struggling on ways to develop ideas without being so repetitive and it would help me a lot to study some scores on longer forms, thanks in advance!
Good question... How extended are you talking about? I absolutely love the Patrick Williams album Threshold. Each of the tracks are like 12 minutes, but the music stays engaging the whole time.
With Drop 2 Drop 4, is the short hand of saying it Drop 4? In other words, when someone says Drop 4, they always mean Drop 2 as well? Do you ever use Drop 3? I like the last one with the bari on more of the root. But I think closed voicing is my favorite. Great insights!
Hola, estoy intentando hacer estos trabajos ... tengo una pregunta , si tomas el mismo ejemplo pero combinas de otra manera ej la voz de la melodia 1 sax alto , la otra voz hacia abajo 1 trompeta, seguimos hacia bajo 1 sax tenor y mas abajo 1 trombon , ( vale para 4 voces cerradas , o Drop 2 o drop 2 & 4 ) como duplicariamos las voces si en tu banda tenes 3 trompetas, 3 trombones Y 1 FLAUTA ( 1sax alto y Sax T que NO SE CUENTAN PORQUE YA ESTARIAN LAS VOCES ASIGNADAS..) Las 4 voces quedarian bien , pero la flauta las 2 tromp y 2 trmb que faltan ,,, que harian ? espero se entienda mi inquietud .Me gustan y ademas aprendo mucho con tus videos ! Muchas gracias !!
My Spanish isn’t great, but I’ll do my best. I think you are asking if you can apply these voicings to mixed voice ensembles (maybe 2 trumpets, a sax, and a trombone for example). Yes you can!
What's your take on drop 3 voicings, do you ever use them at all?, and when you are doing close voicings and you have the root on the melody, sometimes you end up with a mayor second instead of a third, how do you deal with that?
1. I have never done a drop 3. That is more of a 3-note chord technique. 2. Always leave at least a minor 3rd between the top 2 voices. If the root it in the melody, then leave the 7th out of your voicing.
Never. I learned that it is proper modern big band technique to leave the root out of your voicing whenever possible. Since I am using mostly 5-note chords (major 9, dominant 9, minor 11, etc.), I only need 4 unique parts to cover all of the harmony. The doubled melody really helps add weight to the most important part... the melody. Good question.
For the most part, I personally go with the convention Elliot mentioned, but I use root every once in a while in a bari part where the rest of the section gets low enough, or for effect on a cadential phrase (esp. tritone sub).
@@jimmyjazz78 good tip. That’s is definitely a good case for using the root in the voicing. I also write the root in the voicings for slash chords... for similar reasons
@@PandemoniumBigBand Now that you mention slash cords, it makes me think about how both dropping to the root on a cadential tritone sub and playing the root on a slash cord both separate the bari from the sax section and align it more with the bass. Or if you take a more "positive' approach, it's not separating from the section but linking it to the bass, haha.
I definitely love your videos. But let me ask you one question: How can your name be "Deutsch"? I don't know, even if thats not such an wierd name in America, here i Germany it would be very wierd. I mean, it would be really funny to be named like the Country you are living in (at least for me).
That is a funny question... but I have an answer for you! My great grandfather had the name Deitch. When he immigrated to the USA, his name was changed to the slightly more common Deutsch. I am glad you discovered my videos all the way from Germany!
Hearing triplets over swing rhythm takes some experience. The triplet doesn’t grind against the musical pulse in the same way that it does in classical music.
@@PandemoniumBigBand I find it charming when his personality comes across in a video. Don't get me wrong, if there wasn't any content, personality wouldn't save it. But he's a great teacher imparting lots of interesting ideas. It is "good to be happy."
I love how this guy laughs at his comments. It makes me happy!
I’m glad you dig it!
@@PandemoniumBigBand Literally what I was gonna say
I came back to this video today for a refresher, having watched it a year or so ago. This is such a good clear summary of the various voicings that can be used.
As a classically trained conductor/composer but an absolute jazz lover too I found these videos outstanding. Well explained, no time wasting, great examples. Keep them coming. You are a very good tutor indeed. Thanks!
Thank you so much Robert!
completely agree!
Oh man, I love seeing such a small channel with such amazing quality and craftsmanship put into it, because I can clearly tell you really care about the subject matter and teaching it to other people so they can become great like you. I just know this channel is going to blow up someday, just you wait! On a side note, I would really love to see a video about arranging for rhythm section and also about the basic structure and form of a big band piece, as I feel there are a staggering lack of videos covering those topics. Thanks for doing what you do!
Those are both excellent topics. I was definitely planning on covering drum notation soon, so it would make sense to cover the other parts too. Maybe a short series. Form is also a killer topic. I have some really polarizing opinions about song form in jazz ensemble. I’ll think about the best way to present it.
I personally like mixing things, just like you do in Part 2 of Girl From Ipanema video. For example starting in unison for a few notes, then going into two - part for the next few notes, and then closed voicing towards the end of the phrase, sometimes ending on drop two for the last chord. Depends on the pitch of the notes themselves in the top melody, of course. I usually use 4 saxes, ts, ts, as, as, with bari oscillating in lower register - roots etc.longer notes, quasi accompaniment, oftentimes playing in pair more with trombones than with a sax section. Love your entire series of videos.
Excellent sad voicing lesson. Very concise. Good idea to compare the example without interruption at the end.
Thanks for sharing the solo situation and the sound of Drop2(four part). That's useful!
Glad it was helpful!
Nice, Elliot. The audio examples you provide are sooooo much better than simply reading them in a textbook.
Glad it was helpful!
and exemplary tuning!
I'm an amateur guitarist who doesn't read music yet I learnt so much from this video. Thank you and have a great day!
I really enjoy learning how music works. Thank you for sharing all of this. I don't have any intention of writing a piece, but the knowledge I'm gaining from your videos will, I hope, make me a better player.
I love to hear it! Thanks!
Really helpful and concise
Brilliant brilliant video Elliott. As a sax player I particularly enjoyed that one. The wrap up at the end when we have the opportunity to hear all voicings is incredibly useful ! Keep it up !
Glad you enjoyed it!
Really nicely put together video. Concise, packed full of info, no waffling, great work!
Glad you liked it!
Thank you Thank you Thank you!!!!! Great refresher. It’s been over a decade since I’ve written for big band and I just got hired to write for an artist and this was what I needed 👍🏾😢
Wow!I’m been looking for these big band harmonization my whole life!!!🤩😍🎵
I am so glad that you've found my channel!
Thanks for your series. I’m 76 years old and still learning. Thanks
So glad you found my videos!
Amazing - the showcase of all the techniques at the end really did show the differences beautifully. Off to check out Orchestrating a four trumpet section next.
The drop 2 explanation for saxes here is awesome; I've been getting it wrong by dropping the two to the tenor 2 and then filling in the bari sax, which led to too close intervals between tenor 2 and bari.
Great. Excellent presentation. Great instruction, quick help
I'm likely to get buried under a whole bunch of comments like this but just wanted to say thank you so so much for making these man! Unbelievably useful. thank you
You are very welcome!
Wow!! Sooooooo helpful and understandable. Love love love these videos!! Many thanks
You are very welcome. Glad that you are getting something from it!
Thanks for the fantastically helpful video! Very clear examples and precise explanations. Props to Caesar for playing the parts in tune so well.
Caesar is an amazing player. Check out his feature on my version of Sleigh Ride.
Big Thanks to this video. Such a great work and loved to learn from it.
Great Video. Thanks! I often I write 2nd Alto as two part first, because in my opinion this part is most difficult in terms of good voice leading. Afterwards I add the remaining Saxes and do drop 2 or close position voicings according to the choice I made when writing the 2nd alto. It also fixes problems with tensions between first and second voice and doesn't feel too generic.
Interesting approach. Glad you enjoyed the video!
Thank you so much for these videos! Keyboardist dragged into arranger role and these have been super helpful! (... in addition to real world experience gained simply by doing and learning)
All this is so useful and brilliantly explained. I can’t wait to put it all in to practice.
Your videos are so clear and concise! These are super helpful, thanks!
Hi, I’m a pianist and composer but new to horn arranging, I’m trying to demystify it. Great videos thus far, what I’d like to see is a video on writing for, say, cruise ship horn section, ie where you may have players doubling up parts such as flute&clarinet, alto&clarinet, alto&tenor. This would be extremely useful for me as I work on ships and would like to be able to get a solid grip on doing my own arranging.
My simplest advise is… don’t over complicate it. Make sure you give the players enough time to make the switch, and make sure that you write each of the instruments in their comfortable ranges. I recommend you check out the Don Sebesky arranging book: The Contemporary Arranger
Thankyou. Picking this up easily thanks to your videos.
Thank you so much. Glad you are learning from my videos!
Excellent. great teaching
Great video. For those watching, the next step is to mix up these techniques within the phrase, to align with the range/contour of the phrase and your preference for impact.
Dude your laugh is infectious. Great video, thanks
Hahaha!
This is fantastic! Thank you!
Love the content, man! I write for a big band here in NE Iowa, and it’s interesting to hear items like this identified and classified! Thanks!
Hey Elliot, love your explanations! Going way outside the box, I just finished an arrangement for woodwind quintet. One part called for a jazz sound. I used the Drop 2 technique and it worked perfectly! Each Instrument ended up in it's best range! Thank you for doing your videos. Keep up the great work.
Fantastic! Definitely check out my newest video where I walk you through a soli orchestration
Thank you for these videos 🙏🏾
Thanks for the lessons, I’m just starting to learn about this and you provide a great primer
Great lesson. Very comprehensive. I have a small nit, though: I disagree that drop2/4 voicing only has to do with tempo. I think the register matters more than tempo. In your example, you violate lower interval limits between the bari and tenor 2 parts, and it sounds muddy at any tempo. If this whole example was up an octave, it would sound pretty good at a medium-fast tempo.
Last time I struggled with three part sax harmony (A, A, T). One interresting approach, that I never heard of is spread upper structure triads. It gives you massive sound and full harmony on slow melodies with just three reeds. Also quartals are awesome.
Very cool approach. I bet that sounds great. Also, what is a quartal? I’ve never used that terminology.
@@PandemoniumBigBand bassicaly, you stack fourths down from the melody note. You get some pretty chords with lots of extensions. You can use third or fifth, when you get to avoid notes, but the general idea is this.
😀 Loving the videos please keep them coming 👍🏽
Thank you! Will do!
Hello from Brazil. your tips helped me a lot. Thank you so much!
Hello from Los Angeles, California! You are very welcome.
Really interesting Tutorial. 👍😎
VERY glad I watched this. I did drop 2 drop 4 incorrectly. Dropped octaves but didn't realise I needed to switch instruments to account for ranges. I was left scratching my head and ended up pitching everything up by an octave to compensate for notes dropping out of range, when I should have just used the bari. Then I rationalised that although it sounded a lot squeakier, at least all the notes were being played. Yes I am an idiot. Thanks again! All hail lifelong learning.
Funny story. I'm glad I could clear that up for you!
You're a great educator Elliot. You should consider writing a book on the subject. I would buy it :-).
Maybe one day! Thank you for the encouragement.
Nice work. Thanks again.
Thanks again!
Thank you for all the lessons!
You are very welcome
Thanks. I know the purpose of these videos is to write for big bands but I would love if at some point you could talk about smaller bands. I'm trying to put together a big band but so far I only have a clarinet an alto sax and a trumpet. When writing for them I encounter problems of registration, volume, choice of notes... The problem of managing scarcity.
Gracias. Sé que el propósito de estos videos apunta a la escritura para big bands pero me encantaría que en algún momento pudieras hablar de conjuntos más chicos. Estoy tratando de armar una big band pero hasta ahora sólo tengo un clarinete un saxo alto y una trompeta. Al escribir para ellos encuentro problemas de registro, de volumen, de elección de notas... El problema de administrar la escasez.
Bell icon properly hit! Thank you!
Yesss!!! We shall try it out tomorrow when I drop a new video!
Very much justified addition to all that has been written and said on the subject so far! Suggestion and wish: Video on 3part writing: Old style (New Orleans &...) as well as Pop Horn section writing. I know, there is something out on that too, but nothing, that is very coherent (to my knowledgde) Thanks a lot and: Keep up the good work and the good mood!
Great suggestions! I'll have to put some thought into the best way to present that.
I like your video's but most of the stuff I know (I have been composing for serveral years). But if you could make a in depth lesson on counterpoint in Big Band arrangement, that would be great! :)
It is immensely helpful to hear the examples played back to back by a great player! Thanks to you and your band member for putting in the extra time. I am an amateur musician arranging a tune for our adult learners jazz combo. The horn section is two trumpets, violin and tenor sax... Have you experienced mixing strings into a horn section, or do you have any ideas about which voicing structure would sound best?
Great and Succinct lesson! Thank you so very much!
This is excellent... I so much love this ....
Thanks. Very instructive!
Glad it was helpful!
It really depends on the range of the line on which of these "techniques" to use. The drop 2 drop 4 gets way too low in the lower 3 saxes in this musical example. Best choice could be a combination of unison and drop 2 drop 4.
Your videos are very under-rated. You deserve way more subscribers!
I agree. But keep in mind that 1 year ago I had 3k fewer subs. So I think it’s growing pretty well.
Thanks ! These videos deserve more views. Keep up the good work.
I agree!
Thanks Elliot and thanks to Caesar for recording the saxes and keeping them so beautifully in tune! I use drop 2 voicing quite a bit for the clarity of line but we tend to not play too much at really fast tempos. Gonna start working on a Samba soon so that will require a different approach. I'm mainly looking for unisons and 2 part harmony.
Good call. Unisons are often the best choice
Excellent explanations of the basics. Always good to review the basics no matter how experienced one might be. Btw, in general, what was the most common voicing used in big band music of the 30s? Thanks.
By the 1930s, arrangers were using all of these techniques. Standard closed voicing is always a good choice.
Good job! I find that I use Drop 2 not only for harmonic richness, but also for exposing that lead alto line more. Sometimes close voicings must create a 2nd between the first two altos. If you don't want the "rub" of a 2nd, drop 2 is an easy way to open the interval between the altos. Again, excellent job!
In my experience, Drop 2 doesn't add any harmonic richness... it just spreads the voices out. You should never write 2nd alto closer than a minor 3rd from the lead. There is always a solution to avoid that "rub." Often the best closed voicing involves either using the root, or leaving out the 7th (and using the 13 instead). That is OK. I've found that consistency in my voicing is more important than getting every harmony under each melody note.
@@PandemoniumBigBand yeah, I remembered something you said in the video incorrectly--that's why I made the comment about richness. I use the minor 3rd interval "rule" interval as well! Again, great job from a fan in Texas...
Great vid, thanks!
Great explanation, simple and precise! Your videos have been so useful and easy to understand. Thank you so much!
Thank you for checking it out! New video on a few days... I don’t know how people can keep this up!
I love your videos Man!!
I saw you had a minimal amount of saxes doubling. Can you discuss clarinet and flute use?
Excellent!
Dude, your awesome!
Great! Thanks!
I love the videos. Hey may you please make a video about how you make Sibelius swing right accordingly with the articulations. I remember you posted something about it on FB. Thanks
I have been trying to make my tutorials less program-specific. But I think the tools you are looking for are in the “dictionary.”
Thanks, this is a great resource
You are very welcome
Ah man Why didn't I find these earlier! Thankyou Elliot thankyou!
So.... Supersax, closed, Bari doubling Alto 1 at the Octave?
Glenn Miller, same but clarinet instead of alto 1?
Great info. Thank you for sharing! Presently I'm working with a small student jazz ensemble with trumpet, alto sax, trombone, and bari sax. Sometimes I find that 4-part writing doesn't always sound cohesive for this combination of instruments and players. I have recently taken to giving the trumpet or alto the melody and then giving the other one of them a harmony (so just 2-part) but then doubling the 2-parts down an octave with the bone and bari. I like the results, but is this even a thing?
Nice one!
Great vid! Thanks! The dots are not what’s played. Keep up the good work
Thank you!
I love these videos, however I would title this series as, "Deutsch Marks by Elliot." You're welcome.
Ha!
This channel is awesome
Thanks!
Thanks for all these important technique! But I have a question with 4-part drop 2 and 4 parts w/ bari roots. In the video, you said you would use bari roots when bari is "into the weeds" and "obscures the root," but in your example, you only switched bari with tenor in the same range, which still entangles the root. So is it something other than voice range that prompts you to drop bari?
Great video. You should try sibelius arrange styles plug-in where Drop 2, Drop 2+4 and other are included. It will be faster. I think so 😃.
You could do that. But I recommend writing them “manually” the first few times so that you really understand what’s going on orchestrationally
@@PandemoniumBigBand Of course. After all, you know exactly what and where you want to get. I propose a "tool" to speed it up. Beyond any doubt, your videos are amazing and I learned a lot (despite what I already knew) of new things. Great job and I regret finding them so late.
In your closed voicing video, you said to leave out the root note of the chord unless the melody is playing the root or the third, but in your example of closed voicing, the chord is a Cm7, Tenor 1's first note is a C, and Alto 1 is playing the fifth of the chord. Is there something I'm missing here that's really basic knowledge?
When voicing non chords tones, if you use closed voicing + Bari around roots, how do you treat said Bari?
Hi Elliot thank you for all this! so helpful. Question, on my arrangement I have a two bar melody played by the top Alto and Trumpet where it ends with an eighth note tied to a Whole Note in the next measure(3rd bar) . The remaining Saxes- (4) play a counter line , what are the best tones to add there? Bbmin7- Eb7 in same bar. Thank you.
It’s hard to tell from your description. Maybe we can get on zoom for a few minutes. Send me an email: pandemoniumbigband@gmail.com
@@PandemoniumBigBand Hi Elliot, sent you Zoom link. Thanks
Elliot, you are a blessing. You explain things practically and portray challenges as practical, no-big-deal matters with solutions. In this video I loved your how to make four saxes sound like five when an alto or tenor is playing a solo. Now I know!
Your information is invaluable and equally important is your encouraging attitude. Thank you.
Thank you David! I’m glad you discover my videos.
Hi Elliot, would you ever have the alto saxes play harmonized in thirds and have the tenors play the same thing an octave below?
I’ve never done that before… but why not?
great as always thanks so much for sharing, I would like to know, what are your favorite extended form pieces for big band?, Im currently struggling on ways to develop ideas without being so repetitive and it would help me a lot to study some scores on longer forms, thanks in advance!
Good question... How extended are you talking about? I absolutely love the Patrick Williams album Threshold. Each of the tracks are like 12 minutes, but the music stays engaging the whole time.
@@PandemoniumBigBand Thanks so much, gonna check it out.
With Drop 2 Drop 4, is the short hand of saying it Drop 4? In other words, when someone says Drop 4, they always mean Drop 2 as well? Do you ever use Drop 3? I like the last one with the bari on more of the root. But I think closed voicing is my favorite. Great insights!
I’ve never heard of a drop 3. That might be the secret sauce! I think a drop 4 is probably just shorthand for drop 2 drop 4.
Hola, estoy intentando hacer estos trabajos ... tengo una pregunta , si tomas el mismo ejemplo pero combinas de otra manera ej la voz de la melodia 1 sax alto , la otra voz hacia abajo 1 trompeta, seguimos hacia bajo 1 sax tenor y mas abajo 1 trombon , ( vale para 4 voces cerradas , o Drop 2 o drop 2 & 4 ) como duplicariamos las voces si en tu banda tenes 3 trompetas, 3 trombones Y 1 FLAUTA ( 1sax alto y Sax T que NO SE CUENTAN PORQUE YA ESTARIAN LAS VOCES ASIGNADAS..)
Las 4 voces quedarian bien , pero la flauta las 2 tromp y 2 trmb que faltan ,,, que harian ? espero se entienda mi inquietud .Me gustan y ademas aprendo mucho con tus videos ! Muchas gracias !!
My Spanish isn’t great, but I’ll do my best. I think you are asking if you can apply these voicings to mixed voice ensembles (maybe 2 trumpets, a sax, and a trombone for example). Yes you can!
Hola , muchas gracias por tu respuesta !
@@PandemoniumBigBand hola ! muchas gracias por tu respuesta !!
Do you write the tenor and baritone parts in bass clef on the concert score or in treble clef
I’ve done it both ways. I usually do tenors in treble and bari in bass clef (concert score)
What's your take on drop 3 voicings, do you ever use them at all?, and when you are doing close voicings and you have the root on the melody, sometimes you end up with a mayor second instead of a third, how do you deal with that?
1. I have never done a drop 3. That is more of a 3-note chord technique.
2. Always leave at least a minor 3rd between the top 2 voices. If the root it in the melody, then leave the 7th out of your voicing.
@@PandemoniumBigBand Thanks so much!
@@PandemoniumBigBand what about dominant chords, would you leave the seventh out and changed for the 13th?
@@femerolo Yes. Or you can add a 9 in a lower voice.
@@femerolo yes.
woodwind doubles !!!
Why drop 3 was not included?
Because drop 3 isn’t a thing!
How often do you use a 5-part close voicing (i.e. five independent voices as opposed to doubled lead)?
Never. I learned that it is proper modern big band technique to leave the root out of your voicing whenever possible. Since I am using mostly 5-note chords (major 9, dominant 9, minor 11, etc.), I only need 4 unique parts to cover all of the harmony. The doubled melody really helps add weight to the most important part... the melody.
Good question.
For the most part, I personally go with the convention Elliot mentioned, but I use root every once in a while in a bari part where the rest of the section gets low enough, or for effect on a cadential phrase (esp. tritone sub).
@@jimmyjazz78 good tip. That’s is definitely a good case for using the root in the voicing. I also write the root in the voicings for slash chords... for similar reasons
@@PandemoniumBigBand Now that you mention slash cords, it makes me think about how both dropping to the root on a cadential tritone sub and playing the root on a slash cord both separate the bari from the sax section and align it more with the bass. Or if you take a more "positive' approach, it's not separating from the section but linking it to the bass, haha.
I definitely love your videos.
But let me ask you one question:
How can your name be "Deutsch"?
I don't know, even if thats not such an wierd name in America, here i Germany it would be very wierd. I mean, it would be really funny to be named like the Country you are living in (at least for me).
That is a funny question... but I have an answer for you! My great grandfather had the name Deitch. When he immigrated to the USA, his name was changed to the slightly more common Deutsch. I am glad you discovered my videos all the way from Germany!
Watching the notation I'm having difficulty hearing a triplet. Are my ears that bad?
Hearing triplets over swing rhythm takes some experience. The triplet doesn’t grind against the musical pulse in the same way that it does in classical music.
Or in other words everything you hear is actually a triplet lol. That's why it doesn't stand out
Good to be happy, but he is makes a statement and laughs all the way through the vid ??????
He? You mean me?
@@PandemoniumBigBand I find it charming when his personality comes across in a video. Don't get me wrong, if there wasn't any content, personality wouldn't save it. But he's a great teacher imparting lots of interesting ideas. It is "good to be happy."
Have subbed!
So useful! thank you so much