Reposted from elsewhere: "Hello, to my wonderful subscribers. I guess I need to address some frequent questions about my Safety Tools Video. I don't want this to sound like a rant - so please read this in a calm, relaxed tone even if I'm a little agitated while writing it. I began the video saying its most useful for young people and grognards. I later explain why. Young people so they aren't being told that an x card will solve bad behaviour. Grognards so they understand what safety tools really are. I also say I've used these tools since 1995 and my only concern is the current talking points which may cause harm to vulnerable people. I give examples. Since some think I am a puritancial sex hater - the video is not a lecture for the BDSM community. I play D&D to do things I can't do in real life. Consenting adults are allowed to have sex in real life. I'm not against sex in a TTRPG. I'm not against "darker themes." There's “fade to black” sex in my games and my games are super dark. But I personally don't like, want, or need my TTRPGs to be porn of any type and children need to know that it shouldn't be there either. And I personally also don't need or like murder porn. I did a video about including Horror in your TTRPGs. Not one of my tips includes a need for graphic details of abuse, torture or R%pe. If a DM needs that they lack imagination. I'm not lecturing anyone on how to run their games. I have 50 videos on this channel. Not a single video ever lectures anyone on how to run their games. In fact very much the opposite. I'm not demeaning mental illnesses. That's a very serious topic. I have severe c-PTSD. It used to control my life. I don't want to see others go through anything like what I use to. I'm saying D&D is therapeutic but it isnt therapy. No game of D&D should ever be causing anyone any amount of psychological trauma and if it is then somebody has some work outside the game because an X card isn't going to fix that. Am I misquoting Ron Edwards? I do not believe Ron would say he believes R is fun. I said he seems to be suggesting that. Why? He literally made a book all about "bringing taboo elements into the game ... for fun. To push the boundaries of your game." ie: sex. Then he says ... and regardless if it isn't deemed "an ideal example of sex" he still says, "R... CAN occur." Really? It can? Pretty sure that's called victim blaming in the real world where adults live. If anyone does not agree, then please tonight organize an orgy and inform your participants that, "Oh btw, while not a great thing, just be aware that R can occur." See how that goes over. In my opinion it should never occur, not under any circumstances. If somebody publishes a game supplement opening the door to "oh, btw, R can occur!'' they have already lost the argument for why anyone needs that book. Regardless if you lean left or right - it’s horrible being mislabelled and hated for your beliefs. I do not like labels but we understand why they exist. Politicians and media on both sides weaponize them. Half of my rather large regular Sunday group belong to the LBGTQ+ community. My father was gay and tried to live as a straight man until I was 7 years old. I’m straight and advocate for all marginalized people. On my other channel at the moment I’m working on a video about “Missing White Girl Syndrome.” The world would be a better place if people just stayed out of the bedrooms, bathroom stalls, and doctor offices of consenting adults. That should never be a political statement. It's just basic human rights. Yesterday somebody said "I don't think you thought this through." That really annoyed me. Part of my real life profession involves promoting critical thinking. I worked on this video and through my own journey of various feelings for nearly a year. I interviewed members of the LGBTQ+ community. I interviewed a therapist and a very talented psychologist who also happens to be gay and has been a player in my campaigns since the mid 90s. I also discussed this in depth with a college professor who DMs for young people so I could understand their perspective. That’s not an “appeal to authority” and the person who said it is, clearly doesn't understand logical fallacies. I only made that video because I want people to be happy, protected, true to themselves, and free from abuse, violence and trauma. That's it. Thank you to the 92% of people who understood that without me saying any of this. (At one point the downvotes had it at 72%) I have nearly deleted the video a few times just because some hate has been so extreme and c-PTSD doesnt make drama something I need in my life,. However, I end up just deleting the hate so it doesn't effect you and our channel. Youre an awesome supportive community! Hopefully I can just refer those who go out of their way to misunderstand my video to this post in the future rather than to keep revisiting it. Now I need to DM an epic battle today for the conclusion of a very dark quest line. Thank you. I hope everyone has a great day!!" - Aten
I just came across this video and your channel today. I haven't even watched the video yet because this comment caught my attention and it's enough for me to subscribe. Now, on to the video.
@@DottorVinz there should be some at the bottom. The political rants I delete that. I don't care what "side" they're from. I'm not into BS tribalism. Tribalism makes people idiots. I want to hear people repeating political buzzwords about topics they don't grasp as much as I want to hear about their toilet habits.
@@DottorVinz also, there was a community post (which is what this pinned comment is from) that got really ugly. I deleted that community post and thread because I have zero tolerance for drama on this gaming channel. People can go to Reddit or find another TH-camr who does that.
Yeah, I agree with that, but.. Many times these issues are either never brought up at session 0 or they are intentionally avoided by players and they creep in later in the game. Sometimes players are so anxious to find a group they are totally nice at first but over time, their behavior goes back to the real people they are, then... how do you deal with it? I am very tolerant of people, almost to a fault, but I have a ZERO TOLERANCE for this kind of behavior. I kick those kinds of people out quick without much discussion. Am I being cruel and insensitive? No. I simply do not allow deceptive people in my life.
@@helixxharpell You could always have a simple one page word doc that is something like "game expectations" or "social contract" and have it there "anything sexual will be faded to black". if someone objects it they should then not play it.
Can I just say some people get hilarious with this stuff in particular. I was on an RPG forum where they were literally mad if the GM didn't PAY A SENSITIVITY READER to review their campaign before play.
Yeah that might be too much. Ive seen a lot of people try to kill D&D but they've all failed. However I think D&D can be killed and the thing that will kill it is the popularity. A lot of D&D tourists right now dont actually like D&D and wont be playing in a few years. They're just doing it because pop culture tells them to. And those people are making lasting changes to the game.
@@nowayjosedaniel That's quite a discussion there. Originally, I was going to name this channel "We Love D&D," but fortunately, WotC reminded me of how much they suck and how much I adore many other games. I've been focusing on D&D mainly to gain subscribers. Unfortunately, my other videos don't attract much attention, despite the significant effort I put into them. At least, not yet. Once I increase my subscriber count, I have plenty of other TTRPGs to cover (I've already posted a video on the channel about my favorite ones from the 80s). Next weekend, I'll release a video titled "Only Noobs Think 5E Sux." Despite the provocative title, I believe you'll enjoy it because it delves into my personal journey from thinking 5E sucks to my current perspective, explaining why everyone should move beyond the easy targets. As a side note, although my group primarily plays 5E, on days when not everyone can join, we switch to WEG Star Wars d6 or Mutant Crawl Classics. I'm genuinely excited to explore many other games, but it can be disheartening to see them fade into obscurity in the TH-cam algorithm after investing so much effort. Therefore, I need to focus on building up my audience first.
This is well said. As a "grognard" myself i cringe a bit at the structures, like consent checklists and the like. Communication and empathy has always been the important thing. I once had a new player. When the giant spider minis came out, she was visibly upset. I stopped and asked if she was OK. She revealed she had an intense phobia. So, no worries, I adjusted the encounter, no judgement. The goal is for everyone to have fun, not to be traumatized.
@nowayjosedaniel Sounds a lot like a friend of mine. Told me he has arachnophobia and if it ever happens that I notice a spider close to him or god forbid on him I should do anything needed to get it off of/away from him before even informing him it happened.
I was in a game where a guy completely freaked out because a player's apprentice, a kid, got killed by AOE damage. Good thing he left before my evil ratling exploded a possessed child.
@@nowayjosedaniel well, it was a friend of a friend, and an acquaintance of mine. She just wanted to know what D&D was all about, andi just wanted to make it a fun experience. I was surprised she had such an extreme reaction to the description and the minis, as I knew she was big into the horror movie genre. When she told me the spiders upset her, I just took her at her word. I don't know the full circumstance or degree. I would hazard to say many people use hyperbole when they say they have a phobia, especially if it's undiagnosed. I thought changing the scenario was a fair compromise; to err on the side of kindness.
@@nowayjosedaniel I have played a half-succubus in D&D, and Habbalah of Lust for In Nomine and a stripper in a Shadowrun game. My games are described as grimdark in the extreme and Dark Sun is my favorite setting. My games could also be shown on network tv, with the exception of the combat. You can hint at things without describing them in graphic detail, such as that Habbalah hanging out in churches, looking like a 15 year-old boy to entice the priests to give in to their sexual urges without being vulgar about it. All it takes is the occasional “damn it, I missed the mass at St Mary’s” to remind the other players of it. The angelic players in that game didn’t question working with me because I was using myself as the bait for the souls worthy of the hell instead of leaving innocent victims in their wake. So yeah, it can be done.
@@nowayjosedaniel Correct. Our Conan would have played more like Conan on network television. Cutting out the naughty bits. And I'm not saying people can't play with adult content. I love game of thrones. It just never came up in our gaming sessions.
@@almitrahopkins1873 Just dropped in to say you are the first person I've seen to reference In Nomine without me bringing it up first. Here I was thinking I was the only fan.
Important to remember: this cuts both ways. You wouldn’t have someone who can only be available from 2-3 am on a thursday in a group so it’s ok if you make some game world with a mechanic a player doesn’t want to join with and just accept this isn’t gonna work. Nobody is forced to censor their game. If people want to do an evil campaign some people can’t hang, but even then people can still find themselves not on the same page. It really is important people decide ahead of time where they want to go and what the lines are. Yes, many people won’t ever do something too weird but if you want to do something weird that’s where it matters the most to get some consent on what you’re doing. And, as I said, there isn’t anything inherently wrong with telling a player they don’t fit with the group/game. Genuinely no downside to talking about this stuff.
@@welovettrpgs yeah, the one thing I’d add is if a DM is having a hard time getting 3 people together to play the game because one NPC is a problem maybe, just maybe, you edit that to where people want to play. Nobody has to be censored but maybe getting a game going is better than being a stick in the mud on one or two things. I don’t think I’ve ever been too uncomfortable at a table, that’s a blessing in a way. Not everyone gets to say that. I like the joke about scoffing at this stuff, it really is that way, but nobody wants anyone uncomfortable or hurt at their table.
I was fine playing an evil campaign, but there was one person in the group that made all the rest of us in the group uncomfortable by having his character go extremely dark with what they were having their character do. There is a difference between having characters deliberately spreading a deadly plague and poisoning the water supply of a land to cause widespread unrest as part of a plot to overthrow the rulers of the land and having a character frequently kidnapping random children and graphicly describing how they torture them to death to make them become different types of undead. We repeatedly told him he needed to tone down what he was doing, but in the end he ended up having to be removed from the group.
Remember that one unfortunate kid in school that had a neurological condition that could cause them to fall over? They had to wear a helmet all the time for their safety. Safety tools as presented are like passing a rule that ALL kids have to wear helmets, then expelling the kids who don't comply. No one benefits in the end. To paraphrase Frank Zappa, Beheading is a cure for dandruff but the cure is much worse than the affliction.
I like this video, but your comment bothers me somewhat. The analogy sounds good, but like all analogies, it's not perfect. People who wore those helmets would be snickered at behind their backs. It's more that we should make reasonable accommodations for people who det upset by certain topics and not make them change for us, because we are one bad day away from needing that same sympathy ourselves. How do safety tools ruin your fun so much it's like cutting off someone's head to cure dandruff?
@@dorianleakey I'm not sure if you're responding to me or the other? If you're responding to me, are you going out of your way to misunderstand me? Literally my entire video is about protecting vulnerable people. I'm not here to argue or fight with deliberate attempts to redefine my intentions.
@@welovettrpgs I am responding to the other comment, I am not going out mf my way to misunderstand, I am trying to see how someone with an axe to grind may see what you wrote and interpret it in a way that will grind their axe real good.
@@dorianleakey Thanks! And thanks for understanding. I appreciate that. 93% of people get it but the remaining 7% seem to thin I'm either telling them how to run their games or I'm not being sensitive to vulnerable people. Thanks Again.
It’s really about hospitality. A GM is a host, a host’s obligation is to make folks experience welcome in the spaces into which they welcome others. The concept that this is an obligation has been kept, the art of doing it has been lost as our culture has gotten more and more procedural. So the tools get used as a procedure through which that welcome is extended. The ad hoc way folks used to do it, and still do it, doesn’t compute for a rather large swath of players. Is it the way I go about it? No. Same goal though. I’ve used “line and veils” long before I ever heard the term because…well I’m not ok describing rape or abuse and fading to black on romance is for my comfort level as much as anyone else. And Monte Cook’s tool for this is not bad. I think it’s too long but I’m more of an ad hoc person and I tend to play with people I know or keep the rating to PG-13, anyway. Now, when the procedures are divorced from the desire to extend hospitality, that’s where the toxic behavior comes into play. Either, as you say, by pushing the limits until someone reacts with revulsion or by someone using the tool to control the table.
Well said, Sir. As a Gen X gal and forever DM, I have always used the "session zero" idea mostly as a way of helping the players finish or tweak their characters. Making sure everyone understands the general overtone and setting of the story. This works well for my table. Btw my players include Gen X, Millennial, and Gen Z. So, while I am not utilising session zero in the exact same way as others, it is something I agree with.
A very good discussion. As an old--school RPGer myself, who mainly plays with similar people, I think we've always found that tolerance, respect and common sense count for a lot. We have ..... stories, certainly, but mostly pretty mild compared with some horror stories I've heard or read in recent times. I do not oppose the idea. But I do feel that. as with most things well-intentioned, the whole matter of 'safety' can be over-used, even misused. 'Too much of anything is not necessarily a good thing', as the saying goes. ******** As regards hyper-sensitivity, I am reminded of a delightful piece from the comic strip 'Bloom County'. One of the characters, a penguin named Opus, is sitting at a bus stop with a random group of people. Out of the blue, someone says to Opus, "I'm sorry, but your smell of herrings offends me..." Someone else immediately responds, "I am offended by your offense/' This suddenly opens a floodgate, as EVERYONE there (except Opus, who continues to sit quietly) starts finding things to be offended about - "That sign offends me", "I am offended by that", ""Frankly, you offend me.", etc., etc., etc.. Dramatic pause. Entire crowd looks horrified, says in unison, "My god. LIFE is offensive." They then run away screaming in all directions. Leaving Opus, sitting there alone. He says to the 4th Wall, almost apologetically, "Offensensitivity.".
There's a lot more I could have included but I'm trying to keep my videos at no longer than 20 minutes. Last year a young woman on reddit was talking about some really gross stuff her boyfriend was including in his game, explaining he thought it was OK because, "His Father did it." Not only did she need to stop playing D&D with him but needed to leave that relationship.
6:50 OK, I can see that BUT what sort of unreal world was the game set in ? How is sex-based discrimination at some level not part of 99% of history for 99% of the world. Obviously most any "normie" IN the world of Conan who thinks to demean Valeria is in for a hurting, and this lady Paladin you had certainly ought to get the same respect in her/your world.
@@welovettrpgs Present it the way you wrote it. Don’t change it at all. You should have told the player that she is the hero in this story. If she broke a nose or two standing up to misogyny, the women in that kingdom would be uplifted by it. That’s how I would have handled the situation. I would have even slipped in a bit of xp every time she did it. When she got high enough level to start attracting followers, the majority of them would be the little girls who watched her break some noses years before. That gives the player agency to change things that they might not be able to in real life. She probably would have loved that. It would have made the game more fulfilling to her.
First contact in my feed for your channel. My group has been playing together since around 2014. When the discussion of safety tools came to our table for discussion we felt we didn't need them. We were all friends and felt if there was an issue we could openly discuss it together. We do have a session zero like discussion while making characters when we start something new, but that's about the extent of it. Liked your presentation of this topic. Subscribed.
Count me as one of those Gen X players that never felt there would be a need for what people are nowadays calling safety tools. For one, I always engaged in continuous dialogue with my players about the game; and, for another, as you suggested, a lot of these topics just aren't things that I would consider bringing into a tabletop roleplaying game. Admittedly, some audiences might find the concepts I use to be the kinds of negative things from the physical world that some players are trying to escape from for a short while (and, which they wouldn't want as part of their gaming experience). However, my warning would be more along the lines of "if Edgar Allan Poe or H.P. Lovecraft are not your cup of tea, then you may not want to play in my game." Given some of the horrific things that we are, here, talking about introducing to the game; I wouldn't want to play in those games myself. I think you're spot on with the advice that when the subject material presented in the game is that reprehensible, then no safety tool is really going to be effective; at that point, it's time to remove yourself from that situation, and find a healthier group with whom to play. I know the furor of social media comments will make this a subject that some will resent being broached at all; but, it's worth saying, even if only one person hears it and thinks to themself, "it's OK for me to say, this isn't right for me, so I'm going to withdraw from the game."
Fundamentally the uptick in the usage of RPG safety tools came about because I think of the large explosion in the interest of the hobby around the introduction of 5e. In this context it makes sense, these are things you you learned to do with other people who are mostly similar to you over a long time, but when 50% of the hobby wasnt playing 10 years ago it can become important to handle these issues in a more intentional and formalized way. The explosion in the hobby size often means that a larger number of people from a more diverse set of backgrounds are coming together to play, and more and more often people are playing with people they do not know outside of the D&D context. This means that they are much more likely to make some critical error and make someone feel hurt or unwelcome. And so distilling the wisdom of older game masters that they have developed slowly over a few decades into something that can be studied and implemented within a few hours seems like it could be useful or important. Of course, like with some harm reduction practices, like Vapes and Boxing gloves (studies show that because of the gloves protecting their hands, boxers punch harder, and are more willing to hit people in the head for example, and some people when they hear that vaping is safer than smoking increase their consumption), now that people feel like they have to tools to do something they would not have otherwise considered safely they are more likely to try and push the boundaries. Now I dont use much in the way of safety tools in ongoing games myself, I only play with people that I know, I do have a pre session discussion with my players about what kinds of content I am interested in permitting, but I play with people who are similar enough to me that this have never really been an issue. But given the sudden influx I can understand people wanting to discuss such things, and them glomming onto a term that already exists, that can make it more clear what the thing is supposed to be about. "How not to be a dick to your players and make sure that everyone has a good time" is much more of a mouthful to say compared to "Safety tools" and while your proposed change to "Organisational tools" can work the name is misleading as far as what these tools are for. Organisational tools makes me think of some kind of filing system, or a particular way to use highlighting in your notes. This means that it is a name that is only useful if you already know the thing it describes and is significantly less useful if you are a first time DM trying to make sure you have done all the things you probably should have done before session 1. I do however agree with you that for the most part tools like the X card shouldnt be used with great regularity and in most cases the people that make youtube videos about such tools are likely to admit that they have rarely seen them be used. I can see the possibility that something may have come up in the game that didnt get mentioned in session 0 because it didnt feel relevant at the time. Maybe Hannah has an abusive dad, and the scene where the big bad beats something physically and emotionally down in the middle of a fight reminds her to much of her childhood, something that she mostly doesnt have issues with, but this one instance gave her post traumatic flashbacks, hannah should definitely see a therapist but should maybe have something on hand that allows her to signal "I want this to stop please" as unobtrusively as possible. Those are my thoughts at least , TLDR, Safety tools as a concept were an expedient way to teach a massive influx of players how to be kind to each other, this expedient method was necessary due to the increased diversification, and a increasing shift from D&D being something you do exclusively with people you already know and trust, to an activity you do with strangers found via online LFG pages, The term safety tools was choosen mostly because it is the term used for such tools in other subcultures, and the name more clearly communicates what the tools are intended to be for, as opposed to your new term which can easily be mistaken for something else, finally while I do agree that for the most part if people feel a need to routinely use the "No button" style of safety tools they probably shouldnt be playing this game (or potetially the DM shouldnt be Dming this game, if they keep putting the same content in that you keep having to nope out of) There are legitimate usecases for such tools mostly stemming from the fact that a particular anxiety trigger may not be known at the time, or may not cause issues consistently, or may not have seemed relevant at the time.
This really sums up well a lot of what I like about safety tools. It helps get people on the same page. Keeping everyone’s expectations aligned helps people to be playing at the table they will find most fun.
Organisational tools makes me think of google drive, docs, sheets, or things like world anvil. Safety tools initially made me envision people sitting round the table wearing hi vis jackets, hard hats, safety goggles, gloves, bubble wrap and corporate risk assessment forms. But then I'm well aware that I have always had issues taking things far too literally. I don't have a better name though, and don't think you'll gain traction trying to change it's name at this point. So I'll accept the name that has stuck, even it does still conjure silly images in my mind.
@@FringeFinder even if they are the wrong images they are closer to the mark than organisational tools. At least you imagine people.being protected from something. Even if the resulting image is humourous and nonsensical
I think this is a quality video. I had my problems with safety tools too. Thank you for the context. In my games there are two safety tools: 1) if you can't speak with your own mother about a topic, don't bring it to the table 2) if you don't like a topic, speak up, then we simply move on. No drama. It's a game. - same rules for me, the GM.
@@welovettrpgs But we all know that person that does not notice that they are around jerks - I was that person. And I was the jerk once or twice, that's for sure 😸Greetings from Germany!
@@Frederic_S Thabks! You know, we've all been accidental jerks at one time or another. I try to remind myself and others, "never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." None of us are immune to stupdity. I think by promoting critical thinking and by understanding confirmation bias we can however be better people. But none of us are perfect. I'm sure far from it. Thanks!
"turns out experienced people had been doing all along" "Your DM is not your therapist" lots of good quotes and context here, thank you Aten, this is a good contribution to the community and I hope more people get to see it !
These are exactly my thoughts, but put in such a clear-minded and eloquent way that I would never have been able to express myself. I have always thought of framing content warnings as "trigger warnings" to be both condescending and presumptive; there are plenty of reasons I wouldn't want to hear about SA aside from having experienced some past trauma. Most of us got in the hobby because we wanted a social outlet and we didn't have the skills to socialize in other ways. It is tough enough to deal with DMing a game, it is too much to expect us to be therapists on top of that.
Thanks for posting this. You've explained something I've been having an issue with since I first noticed all the trigger warnings on DMs guild stuff. I knew I had seen this before but couldn't remember where; those infamous 3e source books. Anyway, well said and like you, I've been doing most of these things already. As another Gen X DM whose been playing since the 80s, I've found you pretty much have to build up a set of house rules for acceptable table behaviour.
I think I saw this pop up when you first posted, but I didn't watch it then. I came up again today on the recommended page and so I gave it a watch. As someone that has played off and on since the '80's, the safety tools were something that baffled me as to what actual need they were filling. Interesting video, no matter how the comments may pile on you now and then. I have never put together a detailed pre-game document like you did, but if I was thinking about something and wasn't sure if the players would be on board for it, I would simply ask before planning anything that had a chance for player objection. Otherwise, I tend to run pretty "safe" games, since I have run games for families including children down to the age of 7, as well as games in a teen center for a while.
This is a good offering in my humble opinion. This is the first of your videos to have come for me. It is a pretty well reasoned take and delivered with the requisite amount of calm to be useful. I get why a lot of the old soldiers need to vent over the subject, but that does not accomplish anything except blowing off steam, in my opinion. Your are saying some new things and that is helping me as I am researching the topic. Good luck on the channel going forward. This earned you a subscription. :)
The "If you're an Adult DM and you need safety tools to tell you what you shouldn't be doing with child players" is spot on. The majority of the time I see situations in which people need to have the "Safety tools" is when DMs are massive red flags and people need to pack up and leave because it's not a good time. People need to be equipped with the tools to not veto something in the middle of a game, but instead, have the tools to know "I need to personally leave because there's not going to be fun here, and it'll damage my mental health and possibly physical wellbeing" I do believe there's a time and place for really dark topics, but that's for a group of mature people that can tastefully handle it, but there's a billion more stories to tell that don't delve into such things. Lacking the emotional maturity to be able to "Know your audience" and to further keep it to themselves, is just not good. I think "Session Zero" is fine and normal, most people just do it to get their character sheets up to par and it also helps you filter out, "Is this person right for the game?" and "Is this DM right for me?". I recently worked with some young teens (13 to 14) and had a good, long discussion on how it's up to them to care for their safety and how it's a normal and healthy thing to see red flags and bail, instead of "Going along to get along" and suffering a toxic situation just to try and "Make it work", that there's so many other tables, so many other friend groups, to actually engage with and actually have healthy fun with, and that it's not the end of the world to recognize when a group just isn't healthy, and taking your leave. A lot of people have been taught "Tolerance" as a virtue to their own detriment, and that's simply wrong, it puts people in unsafe situations where they feel like their emotions are invalid when others are being predatory and crossing lines, but then there's also people entering a misery spiral where they vent but do nothing, feeling like they can do nothing, and instead of going "I need to leave, I can find another group and it'll be ok" they often go "It's all I have, no one else will want me, I suffer and accept this or I have nothing" and it gets really bad. There's also, as you mentioned, the "You need a therapist" situation where a lot of young people seem to have unresolved issues and instead of tackling the issue to either be able to cope better or, hopefully, resolve it, they try and just ignore/remove/soften the problem to an absurd point, and it's not good to enable that level of maladaptive coping. The young people I was working with ended up addressing the problems around them and had serious discussions with their friends and managed to get out of bad places, while also finding groups that are actually functional and have some level of emotional maturity. They still fell into pitfalls, but they're 13, we all had those hormonal days of emotional pitfalls, but, they've been able to pull themselves out better because they now know they have the tools to actually try and make it right, and they have a choice in the communities they interact with, and they know when they see a big red flag, they can simply walk away instead of "Put up with it" because it's the "Nice" thing to do or something. We gotta get the young people equipped with emotional maturity and teach them about proper social interactions, and this video does a great job explaining it, there's safety guidelines and proper conduct we have to teach people to follow and then disengage if it's not being respected. Similarly, there's adults that really need to reconsider what they're doing and how they conduct themselves, if you're being a massive creep, it's not acceptable.
Brilliant as ever. So many good thoughts, and great use of The Safety Dance at the end. I just did a Session Zero last night. One thing I noticed about some 1e modules like The Giants, is that the juvenile hill giants are monsters too, with the stats of ogres. We were teenagers when we played and I don't think we thought about it too much, but now we're adults we are more sensitive to these things so I leave them out. This came up in the Session Zero. I also DM for kids and we did a horror-based adventure. I was a little concerned and had a chat with them about the content. It turned out to be a bit of a Disney movie by their standards! Your friend's phrase about sensitivity vs hypersensitivity really rings true as well. Like you, when I was young I was teased for being sensitive but now I have a hide instead of skin, whereas these days some people appear to be looking for things to be offended by. As you say - find the right group for you.
Thanks buddy! I'm still very sensitive compared to most. Rachel from the story once said, "In most movies at the end when the bad guy dies people cheer. But thnk of all the violence that bad guy had to subject us to to elicit that cheerful response for his death."
Well done, and well handled. One thing that I insist on with my players is everyone being on the same page before we get the game started. And they need to let me know in advance if they have any major/crippling phobias. Finding out that one of my players is starting a minor panic attack because I got a little purple with my prose is not fun. It was handled, but still...
@@joshuawallen8112Fear yes, trauma no. I love horror, but it can be hard to tell which of those it's gonna be to whom in any given situation. Personally, I had a change of heart regarding safety tools when a new player I didn't know prior to her joining the game long after session zero left after a few sessions because the horror campaign I ran gave her nightmares. She did sign up for a horror game, but I should have talked to her about what we'd call her lines and veils nowadays before letting her join a horror campaign with a bunch of people who could merrily watch Brain Dead during Dinner.
@@krempelritter9950 agree. But have seen people telling their lines and veils and even with them completely not working with the group, still demanding to join and the group changing.
@@andersand6576 That's very true. Safety tools don't solve problems like this. Demanding to join is never a great move. Asking to is ok, so ist asking for changes, but demanding such things is clearly out of line. I don't like to play with entitled people anyway.
Agree: RPGs are therapeutic but they are not therapy. talk to me, and if I can make some adjustments to make it more therapeutic for you I will. But I won't take away from the tables fun and expectations. But I know where a lot of games are irl, I'll find you a suitable home.
@@twicedeadmage true. I'll never forget a player we interviewed back in the 90s (we had to put up player wanted signs at local game stores). After he left we all said, "D&D can be theraputic but that person needs way more therapy than we could ever provide."
I totally agree that ttrpg shouldn't be a therapy with very rare exceptions (they are much better than drinking your problems away though, but neither is really the right solution), but what confuses me is whether "if you have this problem, you need a therapy, not safety tools" implies that you need to heal enough so the topic doesn't bother you in the game anymore before you can play and ttrpg at all, featuring it or else. I mean, if you are so arachnophobic that you need to excuse yourself from the room just because spiders are mantioned, than yes, you probably really need to address it. But I wouldn't say that you can't try looking for the game that doesn't contain spiders meanwhile. I understand that it's a very simplified example (and that in some cases, yes, you need to wait until you get at least somewhat better until you are good to play anything at all), but it was featured in the video, so I believe I can use it.
I agree with every word, 100%. Yes indeed, we had limits before there was an official term for it. I play RPGs to escape the drama of every day life, to get away from the crap that the nightly news spews out, I don't need that spilling into my own games so it is just sheer common sense that we avoid certain topics, especially when we have players of various ages playing (and we don't need cards or anything to avoid those topics, we just.. avoid them).
Exceptionally well written episode. I have someone who practices misogyny of varying degrees in his characters at the table. This video is encouraging me to consider how my character can constructively confront his character in-gane, to get some productive dialogue about it. Thank you. 💛
Thank you for making this video. It's been a while since I played any TTRPGs and wasn't sure what the term referred to. So this was very informative and, I do agree, the term organizational tools is better as this is all about setting basic expectations, limits and ensuring that people in the gaming group know they will be listened to.
Love this! Yeah, we've been using basically this at my table for years. We have two main ones; there is no such thing as SA on my world. It doesn't exist. No one can do it. I'm not interested in that sort of story. Second, children aren't allowed to be in danger. This is because my group don't like the fact that every time kids are in danger of some sort, the party ends up killing them, or letting them die. So no more kids in peril of any sort. It's been great too, at my table because we discuss what we want to play, the style, the themes, the "vibe" of you will. Great stuff man!
Grognard here... This was a great video. Thank you for sharing. I am one of those eye-rolling, groaning GMs that hates the idea of safety tools. You made some good points. I want to specifically call out your point that I've been doing some of these things (check ins, session zero w/ setting theme discussion) since the late 90s. I was pounding out a comment about this generation's obsession with categorizing and labeling everything when you mentioned it. GMing is my favorite hobby, but using funny voices and describing violence leaves me exposed and vulnerable, so i only like to do it with people I like and trust. This is why I doubt I'll ever GM a game in a store or at a convention with strangers walking around. Again.. well done, and I endorse the advent of ROT (roleplaying organization tools) making its way back into the vernacular.
Thanks for this. I am also an aging (old ?) white guy with most of the behavioural biases and socio-cultural limitations that that would imply. I always rankle at the thought of "safety tools" as a required consideration for a gaming session . I was unaware of the actual history of how this developed - thank you for including that. I have the fortune of playing games in general and rpgs in particular with mostly people that I know from other facets of life , and therefore have a reasonable handle on what might cause issues for them , so generally we operate on common sense , and that has worked ( as far as I know ) well over the years. I think as long as you reinforce to your group that your and their interests are in having an enjoyable time , and that you are committed to doing what you can to make this so , intelligent conversation both before a campaign , and as part of your regular after action discussion can really cover most situations.
Thank you for your great feedback! It's a relief, it really is. I've almost deleted the video a few times for the outrage it has generated. (From the reddit crowd)
Very informative video. I'm one of those younger players you talked about and it definitely shifted my perspective. I will say, on the note of sex not having a place in TTRPGs, I disagree on a certain condition: I think it's fine, given that the people playing/running the game are in the same intimate relationship. Otherwise though, yea, I'm not sure it belongs either.
What a very thoughtful video, I enjoyed it and your presenting style. RPG's & Psychology.. the two topics I seem to watch the most of lately. Great video.
Overall good video. I'd like to offer a little feedback with the forewarning that I'm not trying to dictate how you express yourself. I did have a reaction to this video, but I had to work through what caused it because there are a lot of topics covered. After re-watching a few times it seems you find things like check-ins and session zeroes common sense practices, but you feel content warnings and X-cards are signs there are issues that need to be covered outside the session. Am I understanding that right? The trouble I had was in gauging which 'tools' you felt were common sense and which 'tools' were misused, harmful, or unnecessary. If you're making a blanket statement about all of the tools, then I'm afraid I'm very confused. I feel like the video could have been longer to accommodate topic transitions or shorter, excluding one or two subjects that muddle the message a bit. In my own perspective, of course. If others didn't feel the same, I may be the odd one out.
I appreciate your feedback. I feel most issues and concerns should already be covered and discussed before the game ever begins. That might be as long or as brief as necessary depending on the people and ages involved. If after the game starts something comes up then something has gone wrong. A person joining a horror themed TTRPG should already know what they're geting into. (BTW, I have a how to do horror video on the channel. And it doesnt include the need for graphic murder porn) On the other side of that if something comes up in a regular "typical game" then somebody probably has an unresolved issue that needs to be addressed outside of the game. It could be the GM or the player. I'm really only interested in people not being harmed and not believing the false promises of x cards. An X card isnt therapy. I hope that helps. Perhaps other comments could offer further help in addressing intentions? Thanks!
This is a good and concise video. I very much appreciate you also showing where the X-Cards come from, I was completly unaware about Sax & Sorcery. I fully agree with your point "Labels makes us stupid". The reason we use 'Common sense' is because it makes us TALK about what we see as common sense with eachother. That builds an understanding between GM and Player, and as a group. That understanding is what makes the game more inclusive and safe, not a set of rules released from a stranger.
thanks for this one...probably the first rational & genuinely sensible discussion Ive heard on thev subject from any source. Totally worth this Old Grog's time to listen to the whole thing,.. Cheers
Finally got to watch it, this is a must see video for anyone who plays or wants to in my opinion. Your rational and researched approach to the subject was great, you should be proud of this because it's really good. I'm overly tired right now so I'm going to nap, glad you didn't delete it Aten. =^_^=
This is the best video on the topic of safety tools. I myself have never cared for them or had much use for them because, much like yourself, these "safety tools" were inherent in our character and familiarity with each other in our group we all knew where everyones' lines were and knew when we could walk thise line and when to stay a mile away. Anyway your eloquence has earned you a subscriber
If this video gets you to think then I've done my job. However, I'm a little surprised by the extreme emotional response some people are having. Are they intentionally misunderstanding my message? A member of my gaming group said, "Anyone you lost, quit watching before the end." So yeah ... please watch until the very end before hate posting. I'm pretty sure some of the hate posts didn't do that. Also, after several attempts, rather than argue with people, I've decided to just delete comments which are along the lines of, ""Youre a prude for thinking a graphic detailed scene of my character having sex shouldnt be in the game." followed by "We need safety tools to protect people from my character having sex." Some have said safety tools come from the BDSM sub culture. I know this. Trust me, I don't need a lecture about BDSM. And I don't care if a group of people from the BDSM subculture play D&D and want to have oodles and oodles of imaginary sex in their games. But for clarity - that's not D&D. That's people from the BDSM subculture playing D&D and bringing their subculture into their games. And that's fine - however you want to play D&D is fine. But for the vast majority of people who arent using a table top roleplaying game to have imaginary sex there shouldnt be a need to protect people from you having imaginary sex. And if this video upsets you, just wait until next week when I explain why only NOOBZ think 5e sux. Thanks!
I appreciate what you are saying in this comment, here. And I appreciate your overall message. I also appreciate that D&D is played in a different context today, than it was in the 1980s, 1990s. I don't want to war or fight; but I do want to share what felt mean to me. I don't think you intended any mean-ness, but I want to share when and how it came off that way to me. At 14:40, the video says: "What you need is to leave the room and find a new group of friends. I can't stress this enough. If you have a Game Master that finds abuse "fun" there's a very real possibility that person is not emotionally healthy, and there aren't enough RPG tools in the world to fix that. Just leave. Find a new group. Find a healthy game. ... Just be careful because this also means there's an increased likelihood of untreated and dangerous mentally ill individuals participating in the hobby. Don't allow unhealthy behaviors to be normalized in life or our gaming." First, and I think you have already thought about this, but I did read what you said at 14:40, as implying that you were positioning BDSM as mentally ill, and not something that should be normalized in life. That's not an insane belief; Reasonable people can believe that, and if you believe that, I support your right to say what you think and argue it. But as feedback, it came off to me as a banishment. And I see from your paragraph just above, that that's not at all what you intend. The second and more personal thing is, -- I'll just share personally, though I imagine a lot of people had a similar kind of experience: I was born in 1977. My friends & I played D&D, GURPS, Champions, Shadowrun, Albedo, Jorune, and CRPG games like Wasteland, from say 9-16. These are cherished memories, and most of the friends I made in that time period -- we were a bunch of outcast nerds, and we are still friends to this day. It feels like the bonds of those friendship are some of the strongest bonds I have known in my entire life. And: We organically, as teens, brought our sex dramas and fantasies into our games, and this felt normal, even sane. I find it downright healthy, because we were struggling, and we connected with one another through our games. We'd never say it at the time like that, but that's abstractly speaking, that's what it is was: It was a place to have fun and explore a game and actions and fantasies and weave them all together, and, us being horny teenage sexually frustrated boys, we brought that to our games as well. I understand that that makes society nervous, (I think that society will forever not know what to do with teenage boys,) but it felt like a vitally important lifeline to us at the time, and I think it actually was. So this message of -- "What you need is to leave the room and find a new group of friends," -- I don't think you have anything out for my friends and I. But there was a hit that -- it felt like that, for a moment. I want to be clear. After reading your paragraph above, I don't think that's what you intend or intended. But it felt like that to me. And I want to appreciate that you are speaking to an audience of 2024, with it's own dynamic. It is, very clearly, a very different time. I appreciate the difficulty of speaking to mixed audiences.
I’ve played D&D with a bunch of BDSM enthusiasts. That game was one of the most vanilla games I have ever played in. It certainly wasn’t anything like what I would have expected. What it comes down to is that people who feel the need to interject that sort of thing into a game likely don’t have any sort of sex life outside of the game. That’s the sort of thing that they need to work on, because it is unhealthy in the extreme. You can do anything in a game. You can be anything in a game. But certain things in a game are going to make me not want you in my house.
When I saw this channel I was thrilled and excited to watch, considering you are my former guild leader! Ill admit, at the beginning of the video I thought it was satire but I continued to watch because understanding others' arguments is the only way to really understand your own. Then you started making excellent points and I found myself in very near 100% agreement. The only point of disagreement is that there may be compelling reasons for more adult themes that advance a story within a campaign, though admittedly I cant think of any off the top of my head but one must allow for the possibility. Abuse of players, however, is absolutely unacceptable. I would like to add something about "trigger warnings. " The term "triggered" (used as it is today) originally described something that could cause a person with autism to melt down. Having two adult children with autism it is something Im acutely familiar with. I think that, with the best intentions, that term began to be misused and watered down to the point where it has become a parody of itself. One last thing before I go scorched earth in Gianthold... Wabbles is a good choice of dudes to quote!
Whoa. I did not know the origins of this. It really kind of puts it all in perspective. I even had some similar feelings when I first heard about them. Ranging from thinking it was stupid to maybe I should implement them in my games. I had seen some other videos discussing how some people would try to take advantage of them as well. Knowing where they came from though is a bit of a shocker.
Whew! I am so happy that I have never had to encounter any of these people in my game. That is likely because I have stuck to playing only with close friends... and some of them are the people I played with back in 1981 when I first started playing. :-) Yeah, even that is no guarantee that I still wouldn't encounter issues, but, thankfully, I never have, personally. This is great advice/information, Aten. I hope all gamers take it to heart.
Thanks for having a respectful conversation about the subject. I don't feel strongly against or for safety tools, but I DO feel really strongly against people who dismiss things like empathy in a petty and patronizing way. While I probably wouldn't bother with safety tools in my established group of 7 years (playing Fate with discord and a VTT every week since), I do occasionally want to play with new people or strangers, or even have a quick pickup-game. Listings for games and LFGs IMO can benefit from *some* sort of safety tools (I wouldn't call them RPG Organizational Tools, unless we're talking about Excel.) Since I'm recently trying to delve more into one-shots with strangers, I myself am looking for a few of these tools, and I'm trying to get maybe the 3 top three that aren't 1) a pain in the butt, 2) ruin the fun for everyone else. I can see the X-card as being disruptive, but Lines and Veils, if anything, look very useful at least to decide if a player is a right fit for a group (I wouldn't want a player who doesn't like scaly things to change a game of Leisure Suit Barbarian vs the horde of the Lounge Lizards, but I have no problem removing snakes if snakes don't actually add anything to a game. My grandma was terrified of snakes. I doubt she ever saw one in real life, but even just the word was triggering to her). I don't even consider Session Zero by itself a "safety tool", but it can include them.
Thanks! And I too am disappointed in people and their culture of outrage. It doesnt serve them or society. I also despise all political buzzwords because they allow people to be ignorant of the issues and angry about things they don't understand.
I think the fact that Greta was able to let you know very easily and quickly about an issue that bothered her is all the safety tools anyone needs. And a little common sense. Don't like body horror? Don't play Call of Cthulhu. I mean little bit of common consideration in common sense it would seem to cover most of this
Agreed. Some responses have been like, "BuT wE nEeD sAFeTy ToOlZ tO pRoTeEcT pEoPlE fRoM tHe GrApHiC dEtAiLs Of mY cHaRaCtEr HaViNg SeX!1!!" It's like that joke, Patient: "Doctor it hurts when I do this." Doctor: "So dont do that."
WOW. As a fellow Gen Xer I believe your video has the best take at explaining or at least bringing to light these concerns in a reasonable non judgemental way. Most times I see a "trigger warning" I generally roll my eyes and move on, thinking how can you know what "triggers" someone and adding that trigger warning makes me and I'm sure others take a hard pass, I'm no longer interested in anything that video or article covers.
I think one reason that the safety talking points are so extreme is to help everyone recognize that they also have limits and imagine what it would feel like to violate those. It's a good point to mention that these are never expected to be part of the game, but everyone should be willing to signal their discomfort if it happens. Kids have limits, too. My son was attacked by a big dog when he was 5. It would be unreasonable to say that dogs should not be in D&D, but it could be unpleasent for some.
@@welovettrpgs Well, he's 18 now. So, he's mostly over it. But that mostly is all the more reason to give players and dms every tool to defend themselves that we can. I like the X card concept because not everyone is verbal or confrontational. But i also think of you're going to employ such tools, you should make sure they are used. Perhaps, instead of deviant story behaviors as examples, We can just practice with other RPG conventions. Use the X card if your turn is skipped. Or if a player action would force your character to leave the party. Or if DM describes an action that doesn't make sense with your understanding of the world. That way you don't inadvertently make the safety tools themselves as taboo or disruptive.
Well said. In rpg club we had an in flux of people doing exactly this. Demanding what topics could be included in games, even ones they did not play in.
A well written and well delivered essay, sir. Thank you for putting in the work most or all of us did not. Your argument is more convincing than any other I have seen/heard on this subject. I salute you.
In addition to everything else, on a personal level, half of my regular Sunday gaming group are members of the marginalized LGBTQ+ community and it is important as their friend and DM to be sure I got this right.
Great video, really liked it. Kept searching for the like button, only to find i had already pressed it. Only thing i missed from it was a bit more explanation for what the different safety tools acrualy mean. I am one of the grognards, though not as old some of the true greybeards. Started playing in 1988. Have used session zero for decades. Being the one who wants to beat stuff up in a group doing political intrique is never fun. Always ask people to write me in private before a campaign, not just triggers, but also what they want to see in the campaign, combat, role playing, drama and so on. But as a general rule have the trigger warning "if you need trigger warnings, don't play anything i have written". Worst case i have seen in person was a one shot at a convert. Rules light. Gm is a friend, medical doctor per education. 70-80s horror movie setting, rural USA. Van with teenagers run out of gas on a deserted diner. Player twenty something woman "i pull out my cellphone and call for help" DM "its 1975, you dont have cell". Player pulls x-card, starts rambling about hot not having her phone triggers her and demands her character have a phone. DM tries to tell her no, but she starts faking a panic attack when he refused. So it ends with character having a phone calling for help and one shot ending. Later convention leaders call me in, they know both me and and DM, asking what happened. I tell them this and they say thank you. After convention DM tells me player has run straight to the convention runners and reported DM for causing her to be terrified and hinting at sexual inappropriate actions. Of course DM was cleared, but damn she got a kick from getting her will, just because she could. Sorry for the wall of text, just wanted to show why some of us grognards gets triggered by triggerwarnings.
@@welovettrpgs the x card did not feel like the biggest part of it. More like a horrible person story, pretty sure she would have done the same had the x-card not been standard part of the room. The exact kind of person you describe so well in the video.
Very interesting video. I've started playing (and primarily running) pen & paper rpgs some 30 years ago and developed my own 'organisational tools' basically just like you did. At first I didn't believe 'safety tools' were needed, even though some parts of my own toolset were the same thing under a different name, so I can totally relate to your perspective. Some 15 years ago I had a player leaving my table, because my Vampire the Masquerade chronicle gave her nightmares. She had joined late (like 3 or 4 years into the campaign late), so she had not been present for what nowadays would have been called session zero. I didn't get to meet her before her first session. Also my reaction to her telling me about her nightmares a few sessions later could have been more thoughtful. I've thought about this ever since and even if I don't have an exact answer to the safty tools question I think it's an important thing to consider, especially when playing with strangers, even moreso when story and setting deal with darker topics. I haven't read what you linked yet, but I think that for many especially younger people it can help to have something called safety tools. Calling it by that name implies that the GM is taking their players mental and emotional wellbeing serious. I imagine that's a reassurance for people who grew up with such things and may have been raised to take the absence of safty tools as a red flag. I'm pretty sure many newcomers to the hobby are exposed to RPG horror stories on TH-cam or Reddit even before they get to play for the first time and those stories heavily imply what their comment sections will spell out: safety tools are mandatory and only predators won't use them. While I know that it's not as simple as that, someone who just started googling Dungeons & Dragons fir the first time will not. As of now I don't see a problem in calling those tools safety tools. I'll check out your links and see if they change my mind.
Thanks for sharing. Just to reiterate, an X-card isnt a substitute for therapy and D&D is not therapy. I think I'm pretty clear in the video that a healthy gaming space is important.
@@welovettrpgs Yes, you are. I didn't mean to question that. The only detail I disagree with comes down to semantics. I think I get why you prefer the term 'organisational tools', but I also think some people can benefit from calling them 'safety tools' instead and I see no harm im doing so. After reading the first linked article about trigger warnings and the first paragraph of the second I realized that I might have a different understanding of what they are supposed to do than other people. I always thought those warnings we're meant to stop people from reading, watching or listening to the following content. It never occured to me that people would think those warnings would lessen the impact. I can see how this expectation can cause avoidable harm. I might use trigger warnings for RPGs in session zero in order to give people a chance to either change the themes of story and setting or to drop out. Sidenote: the Wikipedia links don't include the last brackets which are part of the lemmata. They do link to pages asking "did you mean...", which provide the correct links, though, but you might want to update them nontheless.
Session zero. Always always always have a session zero, or a re-zero if you have new people joining a campaign. With that, you know what you are getting into, things you might encounter, and any questions or concerns can be brought up. I feel things like X cards are only needed if it's a complete random game with no setup and a lack of communication - which, imo, doesn't sound like a very good game to me. Otherwise, with proper prep, people can speak up and mention "hey I don't want this", or "hey this type of game isn't for me", and leave the table. Asserting boundaries from both the player and the GM + transparency between everyone is so vital to a long-form TTRPG, and honestly a session zero can fix most of the needs for rpg safety tools.
This is a great video. The thing about safety tools is that I respect the intent behind them even though I personally don't use anything like an "X" card in my games (I just let my players know that they can call a "time out" to talk about whatever). And I do think that "Session Zero" is genuinely a good idea because I like to include my players ideas in planning the game. Likewise, someone who is overly dismissive of safety tools may (note the word "may") serve as a red flag that they may also be overly dismissive of the other people at the table. Before I got into DnD I used to read plenty of RPG Horror Stories online and want to avoid stuff like that happening at my table so I always make a point to talk to new people at the table to explain some things and get feedback.
I believe you have articulated what I've thought about this topic ever since I heard about it. Even as a new player, I had that knee-jerk rejection of safety tools, but only because potentially sensitive topics rarely if ever appeared in any game I played. If they did, a simple conversation sufficed to solve the problem. The rise of safety tools felt bizarre to me until I found out what kinds of things some people were apparently doing in their games, but even then, this catch-all restriction did not seem like a proper solution to me, because why were these poorly handled topics even coming up in a social game in the first place? I have since been in a game where intimate content happens on a bizarrely frequent basis and with almost cartoonish levels of gratuitous detail. However, it's not traumatizing to me in particular. It's just disruptive and it sabotages my investment in the game. I've never understood people's penchant for including this stuff in their TTRPG sessions. The point of a sexual fantasy is to illustrate the ideal scenario for the audience. Why would anyone want to sabotage that with any possibility of failure via dice rolls? More importantly, why would anyone want to subject others to their private fantasy to begin with? If they legitimately have the desire to force that scenario on a non-consenting party, then that's their problem that they need to work out, ideally with a licensed professional.
Exactly and the "non consenting parties" part is important. I see in my comments people defending sex in their games - even suggesting I'm prudish. I'm definitely not prudish for not wanting sex fantasies inflicted on others at a gaming table.
Had to have a discussion with a player recently and a general mention at the table certain topics are just not cool. What almost happened in game made a few players very uncomfortable, and I'm not going to narrate someone's twisted verbal prawn, especially when it could spell the end of the campaign. Like you said, not sure why people want to do that in a group setting to begin with. We are all adults, and sure things can get steamy but the action was sa and while it didn't get all the way to that point in game (thankfully) I had to nip it in the butt for future sessions.
Overall, I do think that the general idea of the safety tools is good. As you said I find myself doing Session 0s, and something akin to check ins, but it's more having just frank discussions. However, when it comes to content warnings and such, both in real life and in reference to RPGs, is that if you cannot handle basic normal life, then seek therapy. As you said. I do counter one thing, and that darker topics in RPGs *can* be fun, provided you have a group that from the get go expresses a want to explore such topics. Which circles back to Session Zeros. Granted, going into graphic detail about intimate topics requires a very specific group that is very specifically ok with/into it collectively. Also, for the specific topic of rape and such, that is very much included in the base game. You have to look no further than Succubi, Incubi, and frankly basic charm and dominate spells. But what I find interesting is most of the people championing the heavy safety tool usage don't seem to mention that, unless they're the ones complaining about how the monsters (which are pulled from *mythology* usually) are harmful/racist/sexist, what-have-you.
im only 2 minutes in and I get... concerned when I see someone taking this kind of stuff to task.. you know what I mean. So I wasnt sure what to expect, but so far you seem super even handed and level headed in the discussion. Looking forward to hearing what criticisms or concerns or suggestions you may have as i watch further
Thank you for the parent warning at the beginning. I totally agree with the points made. I have seen the some sessions zero discussion points that had “is this topic okay or not” type questions. And I thought wow! I hope I don’t encounter those people. But as a female gamer, I have also DMed a game where one of the players said he was going to assault my NPG in an adult manner. It ruined the group. As the only female in a room I was done permanently.
"sessions zero discussion points that had “is this topic okay or not” type questions." Oh that was absolutely on my mind when I made this!! If somebody needs to be told some things are off limits I'm not hanging around. Oh that is digusting to hear that someone would want to do that but that says a lot about their inner fantasies so a good warning to leave. Thanks!
I play with adults. All female. We deal with some serious dark themes. A good DM knows how to read people's body language and walk the line, never going over it. Having female players sexually assaulted is never "Heroic" but we had a popular NPC that happened to (off Screen so to speak) when the party was arrested, tortured and exiled to the desert by corrupt officials. They met another NPC in the desert who joined the party and spoke of how that baddie did the same thing to his wife, murdering her and his son. Months of real time and 2 years of game time later, the baddie was criminally charged after a power shift and fought the party Monk in a judicial duel and the monk won with 3-4 HP left. A High Stakes heroic victory over a hated villain with no guarantee of success set up over months of play. The player put her character on the line for justice knowing there are no raise dead spells in this world. Also the NPC whos wife and son were killed, nailed the baddies head to the prow of his ship in lieu of therapy. The Female NPC was also the subject of several quests to restore her mental health for lack of a better description. The PC Monk and NPC Ship Captain remain blood brothers. These topics can be explored ethically with the right people, and good writing, but players should always be fighting against the sociopaths and not playing them, or playing with them.
I was pleasantly surprised by this video, to genuinely learn something that other D&D tubers aren't talking about. I'm saddened to hear there's been such a negative reaction from others. I'd bet many of those people didn't watch the entire video.
Thanks, I'm sure they heard something that offended them and stopped listening. I've been responding to comments for the past 36 hours from people who think I'm a prude that hates sex, hates safety tools, and think I want to not protect vulnerable people.
I have worked in mental health and disability services for nearly 15 years. I live with a personality disorder myself. You didn't say anything objectionable by a reasonable person. Not everyone may agree with all your points, of course, but there's no legitimate grounds for that sort of offense taken.
Good video You have to know your group. I’ve been playing with the same group for over 30 years. We don’t need these things but we cover them anyway we may not use your terms. I agree about the therapy and gaming. Good advice
Very good video, and very good comments. Nice to see such a respectful thread. I agree between 99%-100%. The more of your answers to comments I see the more I confrim that I am on the same page with you. The only nuance (is that right ? English is not my native language) I would bring to the discussion is that the amount of going beyond leaving the shoe at the door , could vary (with everybody consenting of course) on the ttrpg you are playing. For example in Vampire the Mascarade, especially when Anne Rice inspired there might be moments when being a bit more graphic is conducive to the story. A more extreme example was this Hellraiser inspired Kult one shot I played once, just to see what this was all about (Sort of like giving a horror movie a shot to see why your friend likes it so much). Excellent game master and good and nice players. I had a good (instense but good) time but definitely not something I¨m looking to repeat. I still play with the GM from time to time but in other genres. At the end it all boils down to beeing clear and upfront what the game master and players want to achieve with the campaign or oneshot and beeing able to talk openly if something isn´t working out. The concept of cards to point out situations that make one uncomfrotable seem to me like there is not enough complicity between Gm and players.
"it all boils down to beeing clear and upfront what the game master and players want to achieve with the campaign or oneshot and beeing able to talk openly if something isn´t working out. " exactly. thanks
I appreciate the way you handled this topic. I always set expectations with new players before they ever come to a session. Communication, in all areas of life, makes things better. I also agree that not every group is going to be a good fit for everyone. And sadly some people are just toxic and avoiding them is in your best intrest. Peer pressure can cause making healthy decisions difficult but that happens in all areas of life.
@@welovettrpgs I'd also like to say that anyone that is having a strong negative reaction to this video is probably one of those toxic people who need some therapy that you mentioned and they probably just feel called out. Hopefully this is the kick to the rear they need to make some positive changes in their life.
One thing that should be made clear is that these Safety Tools shouldn't allow for DMs to be total jerks. Because if you need these tools to run a productive and fun game, that means you don't trust yourself to set expectations for your game. If you are not an experienced DM that can set expectations and respect boundaries, using other tools that might conflict with how you might do it could just as easily exacerbate the issue. If you're not an experienced DM, gain some experience first so you can set expectations YOUR way.
I really like your explanations and arguments here. Very tempered and compelling. I am currently in two different games. One group is very crass, profane, and sexual about everything. The other group is almost comically puritanical in contrast. Do I sometimes feel slightly uncomfortable in the former and slightly suppressed in the latter? Well yeah. But at the end of the day, both groups are people that really care about each other and me, and always listen and understand, and ultimately make me feel happy and belonging.
Excellent! Excellent! Excellent! Opinion piece! I once started playing a new word based RPG on the internet. I was so new to the game that I did not know the mechanics of the system, but I decided to play a homeless waif thief and immediately after joining the game, she was raped by another player. I was shocked and moved on. More recently, I thought I would experiment with playing a chaotic evil character in a discord game. I gave her a backstory involving benign neglect and verbal abuse to rationalize her behavior, but she was ruthless and desperately trying to prove her worth to the group, but I admit that I made her a bit of an edge lord; descriptively seducing and torturing an NPC for information and planning a one woman black ops attack on a group of evil cultists to open a path towards the goal for the rest of my party. She also openly distrusted a new PC because his in character appearance in the game was under suspicious circumstances. In other words, I played her exactly as I imagined a character with reactive attachment disorder would do in these situations. Regardless, the DM said that I was not the right DM for her and asked me to move on. I can respect that. I can see a number of potential boundary issues that could come up with that character. She interested me, because I could see a potential healing character arc for her, but to heal, she needed to start from a place of woundedness and she could easily be too wounded for my fellow players. I should have done my own "session zero" to explain what my character was all about to see if she would offend the others in the game. Back in the old days, when a game was simply "find the goblins, kill the goblins, take their loot." this would never come up. Now, the game is "find the goblins, see if they are really a danger to the countryside, hope for some loot if you have to kill them." It is a very different game reflecting a very different cultural awareness.
I understand your point that the RPG parties previously had the opportunity to discuss avoidable or sensitive topics without a formal framework. However, I consider it a step forward that we now consciously use these tools.
I think all of these headaches are just a result of people refusing to accept that: “something for everyone” is not the same as (and actually mutually exclusive with) “everything has to be for everyone”. Genre conventions and tropes are like promises for what to expect, and you don't play with randoms in the game shop or internet in the same way you'd play with someone you have rapport with. For some people, in some games, TTRPGs are absolutely therapy, but they're therapy in the sense of allowing the players to offload all their frustrations on whatever hapless NPC gives them an excuse, via unspeakable and disproportionately violent acts of savagery (tip: never let the quiet kid play a Tzimisce in the first place when they're going through an edgy phase, or it's too late). For others, they just want a nice, relatively peaceful sword and sorcery adventure with their friends. I wouldn't say one of those is more valid than the other, you just need to establish the 'contract' clearly in advance. It boils down to preventing 'false advertising', and surprising players without violating essential expectations. Someone who signs up for an edgy game may be offended by it _not_ being edgy. Just market what you're actually “selling”, and if no one “buys”, consider a different “product”. The replacement of these conventions with strict standards (or worse, these weird conventions that allow one player to railroad others and the GM mid-game) sounds like a recipe for rules-lawyering trolls. Some people just want to be difficult or parasitize your time and energy with nonsense. Those people are better avoided in and outside the game until they get their issues fixed. It sounds like the ideal fix for public games might be doing the session zero thing the OP suggested, with good use of foreshadowing. The initial session can act as a “microcosm” of the larger story, containing hints about all the stuff likely to occur later, that players care enough about to draw them in or push them away.
Thank you very much for your support! "For some people, in some games, TTRPGs are absolutely therapy" - to your point, one of my long standing players since 94-ish is a very talented and experienced psychologist who is part of the LGBTQ+ community. Hearing about his work experiences would give most people nightmares. He even recently told us plays D&D because the escapism is theraputic. But I do think the distinction should still be made that theraputic and therapy are two different things. Thanks!
@@welovettrpgs Yeah, I should have put 'therapy' in quotes, since I meant it half-jokingly. But I do think this stuff we're seeing is an extension of this weird mindset we're seeing more and more of, refusing to acknowledge that tastes vary and accommodation is always a tradeoff. E.g., I would personally set the bar very high for what it would take for me to interrupt the GM or other players and break character because of some issue in the session. I might complain privately if I thought the game was boring or annoying or whatever after the session, and repeated issues may cause me to leave after letting the GM kill me off in an entertaining way, but just demanding a stop (X-card style) and interrupting the flow seems really rude to me without a really good reason. Just do a proper session zero like you said, and avoid the potential for snake oil salesmen and rules lawyers worse than the regular kind. Also, definitely agree that escapism isn't something to be ashamed of when you're using it to cope with the difficulty of actual productive work you do for others, and you take care of your own needs, like an adult. Games and other media have been my only real solace for years now, with constant overtime at work and hustling on top of that to make ends meet. Only a problem if you use it to further enable some hopeless descent into sloth.
Just because somebody doesn't like safety tools doesn't mean they don't want to protect children. I specifically run only 18+ games for that very purpose, and I am not entirely sold on some of these tools. A couple sound reasonable, but I consider them less as "safety tools" and more just plain common sense and/or courtesy.
I get what you're saying, and this is not hate-posting. Like I said I agree with some and not others; I just took exception to that one statement, that if you don't like them then you don't want to protect vulnerable groups like children. Otherwise I either agree outright or can agree to disagree.
@@ironskald7 I agree with you. For the most part this was a really good video -- just a few "opiniated" statements were made -- and that was one of them. Another obvious problem with safety tools is some people use tthem to push their "moral" or political agendas. Again, like yiou I agree with almost all the points of this video -- just think this video could have been like half the length. A little too much preaching. Yes -- safety tools are an interesting thing -- like all tools can be used for good or bad purposes. The tools themselves aren't good or evil -- they are just tools -- it's all about how you use them.
My immediate issue with the inclusion of safety tools is that it feels like I was about to write prose and suddenly might find out that I've got to write poetry. Sure, it could turn out that free verse is acceptable, but my mind goes straight to the worry that I'll be stuck counting syllables and grasping for rhyming couplets. To be more specific, what if someone in my group has qualms against themes of suicide and I'm not allowed to just retire a character that I've grown bored of playing? Will it be crossing a line if I try to give that character a heroic death? (It would be nice as an ADHD spaz to not be tied to one character that the rest of the group tells you how to play, but also lacking charisma IRL, being told how to play my character seems to just be the way D&D functions. So, I need to find some character that I would be happy being told how to play.)
Yeah, it's really pretty simple. Play with people you like. If someone crosses a line, tell them so. If they do it again, consider not playing with them.
Aside from the obvious connections to the broader cultural zeitgeist of safety and sensitivity, I think a big factor that's often overlooked in the push for RPG safety tools is the explosion in online play. Online interactions have a depersonalizing effect that emboldens people to engage in bad behaviour they never would try face-to-face, and online games are much more likely than in-person play to involve complete strangers in the group, further increasing the risk. While it certainly wasn't unheard of to play TTRPGs with strangers before online play took off, it was less prevalent and usually also in a public space (like a con or LGS) which usually helps encourage people to be decent. While certainly not the only factor, I think this deterioration of common sense and interpersonal decency that comes with online depersonalization has had a significant role in creating the perceived need for formal safety tools.
Your labels section is the main reason I dislike "Safety Tools." To me, they make these tools seem like new things in the space, but as you said, take a step back and look at the grander picture, GM's have been doing these from day 1. A lot of the tools just seemed to be "Talk with your GM" but in such a roundabout way it, as you have said, almost makes it worse. This is a great video explaining the dichotomy of the topic.
I have never seen safety tools promoted as a means of addressing trauma in players. They're actually the exact opposite, they're for avoiding topics that people will find too much and give them a bad time. The idea that this tool will cause more harm based on the data around content warnings doesn't invalidate the concept and anyone that says as much is probably acting in bad faith. I used a pre campaign questionnaire that asked players what they want to avoid and what they want me to be careful around. The results were anonymous so no one felt forced to explain their reasoning or go along with the group to fit in. I also said that i was going to touch on some sensitivities through the game but people have control, they tell me to stop and we will. These sensitivities weren't around sex btw (just as an aside, this is a pretty sex negative video) but around things like violence and illness, two themes very common to DnD. The answer imo is not to exclude people with that sensitivity but to trust your players and yourself to be able to work around it and be accountable and open to the idea that we can all harm and be harmed but that doesn't make us necessarily bad people. I think putting things down to 'common sense' is too simplistic. We all fall short in knowledge and skills that others may feel are basic or fundamental. That doesn't mean you can't learn this later in life or work to enhance your skills in an area.
I can't imagine how and why anyone would be triggered by this. The pros and cons were laid out cerebrally. This definitely needed to be said....and this video says it best!
Thank You! I've learned that my videos also sometimes serve as IQ tests and not everyone passes! I've had to fight off / delete so many people on this one. The downvotes are insane. I've considered deleting it many times.
I really appreciate the video. I do wonder if the conflation or overrun between D&D as chill casual gaming and D&D as a tool for working through stuff stems in part from the CritRole phenomena, in particular, the level of 'behind the scenes' and panels that this show has that gave insight into the personal journies some of the players were on behind the characters - Liam in particular. I have myself gotten unexpected empathy, I hope insight, and new ways to see the world thanks both to the RP and the openness to discuss issues in all three campaigns BUT - these are seasons and (relatively :)) matureRPers with a consummate DM and a LOT of behind the scenes discussion to cocreate the game before covering those topics. Clearly, no point of this was or is meant to substitute for therapy, even though RPGs can have a good effect as therapeutic tools in the right hands. But it could be that some new players and DMs have a bit more of the expectation to 'create sweeping dramatic traumatic stories' from the get-go since that is what may have inspired them and moved them into picking up the dice in the first place - which can overwhelm the caution of 'careful what you mess with' and 'ask and respect boundaries' sensible rules that should go without saying. It can also get tricky and need more maturity than was perhaps evident in the early RPG writing to deal with mature topics properly. Hard to have a properly PG character, one could argue. Clearly a true big bad may well do pure evil things like torture, slavery, assault, etc.; horror is an important theme to explore (and hard to do undead without it unless you are playing a Shaun of the Dead campaign). It seems vital to be able to convey the themes without turning into a transcript of Saw. This is the same as a good storyteller reading a room and adapting to it - like not telling the grossest jokes over the Christmas Dinner table with all the kids - rather than ploughing in their narrative or the highway (see some stand-up comics). Your own words are an important reminder - some go out of their way to misunderstand, cause or take offence. These can be equally as toxic/destructive as tables that trigger trauma for the thrill or lols without consent, or players who insist on having Proficiency in Edgelord and Main Character Syndrome at the table (or in life). Very sound advice - walk away, find another table.
A lot of it comes down to playing a game being a social event. The standard rules apply. No one issues x-cards at a wedding or a dinner party. As the host I will inform you up front if special rules apply beyond the usual.
Totally why I used that George Carlin clip. People need to be taught to not be jerks. Which is weird but here we are. Honestly, it just now hit me that in a way safety tools are a bit like blaming rape victims rather than the rapist. Nobody should be putting up with a toxic group to begin with.
My main issue with RPG safety tools is that they seem like a means to avoid genuine discussion & communication. They also create a false sense of safety. I say this as someone who initially bought into the hype before listening to grognard after grognard complain about them. People I agreed with on almost every other issue, who I felt didn't like them due to the politics of those that broadly supported them. Yet these same "edgy" grognards would often place little caveats or talk about how they stopped using something in a game. As time went on I realized the gronards were right. I kept feeling maybe they would be usefull for more hardcore stuff like horror games for a while, but for most games they where right. They treated players like infants, and they ultimately were more of a disruptive element at the table than a means of mitigating harm. When I finally ran a horror game the problem finally hit home. As I realized from that experience that the only way I was going to get real information was from talking to my players, and simply listening to them and trying my best to gauge their reactions. No amount of safety tools were going to make things safe not the same way simply communicating, and getting my players to communicate with me was going to do. In fact the attempt to employ those very tools made it much harder to properly communicate.
During the Covid lockdowns i played and ran a lot of Adventurers League games. They were online and i encountered a lot of different people. Most were fine but there were a few who were not ok. With several years of experience running games for well over a hundred different people i didn't know before i can wholeheartedly say: These systems don't work! For nearly all these people i didn't need the safety tools and the few who went too far ignored them! There is one concrete example i have: The group captured some Duergar and questioned them. They were mercs and had no loyalty, so they told the group what they wanted to know. One of the players wanted to torture them anyway and wanted to describe in all details what he would do to them. Several players told him they didn't want to hear that and that they would not allow it to happen. He got angry and just startet to describe how he would stab one with an arrow. I had to intervene and tell him to shut up or leave the table. He then threw a temper tantrum, telling me he didn't have people this sensitive in over 40 years of playing. I allowed some PvP and he left angrily. Tldr: Safety tools don't work. Just tell people who cross boundaries to fuck off!
I think the overall message of my video is to protect vulnerable people and to inform Grognards. Also, to "get up and leave the table" if you are in a bad situation because as you state, "For nearly all these people i didn't need the safety tools and the few who went too far ignored them!" But I wouldn't go so far as to say they "don't work" as Ive used them since at least the mid 90s (without that label of course.) and they have worked fine. I just remove anyone who will not follow my table norms. Thanks!
@@welovettrpgs Fair. Maybe i shouldn't use absolutes like i did. It is my experience and there were only three people i remember with the most extreme example i used here.
The first time I heard a list of safety 'rules', which is what it was called in that conversation, I thought the list was just kind of common sense that I had learned to include while I was still just a player, before any games I ran. 1. Check new players with a single session to see if they will fit a present campaign or will fit better with a later game.(session 0) 2.Set ways to get DM attention that permit someone else to finish their sentences. 3.Work on meta-conflict resolution as soon as it crops up so you limit out of session, real world conflict. It was all stuff I had been taught to do in the 90s.The deeper explanation that came when I was wanting to get back into pen & paper gaming as a player around 2011 after a hiatus of several years, sounded like a whiny diatribe hitting the E-brake on a campaign just because someone felt uncomfortable. That was because it was a D&D 3rd edition game that had homebrewed Call of Cthulu rules added. The point was, on certain levels, to explore the discomfort in the horror of the setting. I added another one to their list and noped out of their offer to join. 4. Set the game for the players. You will have ways you want to run things but, the players are the storytellers, you are the setmaker. Also, I remember that massive wave of 'adult' RPG supplements in the 00's. I looked into them out of curiosity and quickly moved on after strip mining the most minor of elements that didn't include idiocy like rolling for thrust count. I was primary DM for a few groups on my AF base with a few systems (tristat, WoD, D&D, D20, GURPS) and wanted a way to add spice, not get my players making out at my table.😂
I for the most part agree. I think "trigger warnings" in this context just means laying out certain themes and vaguely describing certain moments to see if anyone in the group will have certain (mostly) uncontrollable reactions. I never had one but I think you can have sex filled games but it's a group that really needs to be on the same page. There is a lot of trust required there.
My girlfriend at the time bought the Book of Erotic Fantasy from a local gamestore and she was a pretty progressive person. We read through it and just laughed and laughed about it. It was just so absurd that you know that NONE of this stuff would fly in any group whatsoever!
I have one safety tool, it has been the same since 1988, "If you act like an asshole, you leave the table." That pretty much covers it. You and I have the same thoughts on the matter. "Safety tools" are a way to introduce toxicity into a game in the guise of keeping it out. The players can use them to actively bully the GM (been there done that) to make the story they want it told, GM's can use it to be creepy as fuck. Actual conversation with your players is the best safety tools you can have. I have A LOT of learning disabilities. RPGs made me stronger, capable of functioning in the world (at least for short periods of time). It HURTS me to see it making people weaker. RPGs are not therapy, but they are safe self-exploration with your friends. Remember you don't have your friends in the room with you when you are therapizing and they probably don't want to hear about your diaper fetish. I don't join channels often. Even ones I have been watching for years. But this topic resonates with me, and I agree with you on every point. So you win curly mustache guy, Ill subscribe.
@@welovettrpgs Yeah -- love that quote. Yes IMO saftey tools like any other tool can be used for good or evil -- and yes by the GM and by the players -- everyone trying to push the story that they want to tell. Agree on actual conversation and consensus with the group -- on what stories they want to tell.
@@quantus5875 Thanks. I followed up with my video on Horror to discuss violence, etc. I still need to do one on intimacy / sex in TTRPGs. I just need to wait and do that on a day I feel like taking a lot of crap from the reddit crowd.
@@welovettrpgs I hear you. I applaud your bravery!! -- it can be a very polarizing topic. Even though I think you took a fairly neutral view of the topic (hard to remain completely neutral) I'm actually surprised you got as little hate as you did. Glad you did this video. My views differ a "tiny" bit from yours on this subject -- but thought you did a great job!!
As a angry old white guy: I thinks it's more complicated now to don't hurt anyones feelings and more easy to accidentally cause any discomfort. And yes, in part I think it's because as a whole we get more snowflaky all the time but mostly because the ancient technique of not beeing mean isn't in good use anymore. Kants categorical imperative needs more spotight, or as others put it: don't be an asshole! BTW I admire both your pre-pandemic and current decication to your style and as usual the video is right on point.
You're fine. I'm also a Gen-X Grognard and I just read the Safety Tools for the Heart RPG yesterday and this video caught my eye. I have to say you made me catch myself thinking this was some way to introduce edgier content when the truth is I never should have considered the idea because its just not fun. Thanks for the self check.
I may not be that old, but I do have that grognard-esque reaction to the phrase. I knew they existed, but I did not know it was from there the source of "Safety Tools" was phrased. I am 100% sure that the vast majority of the users of these methods, that go by that name, are ignorant of their origins. I will say that I feel I have a very comparable attitude as you on it being already in my tool box when it is applicable. I have only ever used one of those major tools, as one of the examples given, inside the Session Zero I always had in a horror game - and I gave everyone a chance to anonymously tell me if any topics should be avoided. One played answered with "suicide". Respectable. And the reason I did this was because at the time I knew the group had many immature and sensitive people in it. It was as much for my own sake as theirs as I presented the tool.
Regarding Greta: I can respect, "I face this IRL, and don't want it in my fantasy gaming." When that's all it is, it's actually quite reasonable. That's "what I would like to play in this game." (Others who experience things like that too much IRL may instead enjoy having it presented so they can engage in a verbal, social, or even physical beatdown of it. It really depends on the person and what they find enjoyable regarding things that frustrate them IRL.)
Reposted from elsewhere: "Hello, to my wonderful subscribers. I guess I need to address some frequent questions about my Safety Tools Video. I don't want this to sound like a rant - so please read this in a calm, relaxed tone even if I'm a little agitated while writing it.
I began the video saying its most useful for young people and grognards. I later explain why. Young people so they aren't being told that an x card will solve bad behaviour. Grognards so they understand what safety tools really are. I also say I've used these tools since 1995 and my only concern is the current talking points which may cause harm to vulnerable people. I give examples.
Since some think I am a puritancial sex hater - the video is not a lecture for the BDSM community. I play D&D to do things I can't do in real life. Consenting adults are allowed to have sex in real life. I'm not against sex in a TTRPG. I'm not against "darker themes." There's “fade to black” sex in my games and my games are super dark. But I personally don't like, want, or need my TTRPGs to be porn of any type and children need to know that it shouldn't be there either. And I personally also don't need or like murder porn. I did a video about including Horror in your TTRPGs. Not one of my tips includes a need for graphic details of abuse, torture or R%pe. If a DM needs that they lack imagination.
I'm not lecturing anyone on how to run their games. I have 50 videos on this channel. Not a single video ever lectures anyone on how to run their games. In fact very much the opposite.
I'm not demeaning mental illnesses. That's a very serious topic. I have severe c-PTSD. It used to control my life. I don't want to see others go through anything like what I use to. I'm saying D&D is therapeutic but it isnt therapy. No game of D&D should ever be causing anyone any amount of psychological trauma and if it is then somebody has some work outside the game because an X card isn't going to fix that.
Am I misquoting Ron Edwards? I do not believe Ron would say he believes R is fun. I said he seems to be suggesting that. Why? He literally made a book all about "bringing taboo elements into the game ... for fun. To push the boundaries of your game." ie: sex. Then he says ... and regardless if it isn't deemed "an ideal example of sex" he still says, "R... CAN occur." Really? It can? Pretty sure that's called victim blaming in the real world where adults live. If anyone does not agree, then please tonight organize an orgy and inform your participants that, "Oh btw, while not a great thing, just be aware that R can occur." See how that goes over. In my opinion it should never occur, not under any circumstances. If somebody publishes a game supplement opening the door to "oh, btw, R can occur!'' they have already lost the argument for why anyone needs that book.
Regardless if you lean left or right - it’s horrible being mislabelled and hated for your beliefs. I do not like labels but we understand why they exist. Politicians and media on both sides weaponize them. Half of my rather large regular Sunday group belong to the LBGTQ+ community. My father was gay and tried to live as a straight man until I was 7 years old. I’m straight and advocate for all marginalized people. On my other channel at the moment I’m working on a video about “Missing White Girl Syndrome.” The world would be a better place if people just stayed out of the bedrooms, bathroom stalls, and doctor offices of consenting adults. That should never be a political statement. It's just basic human rights.
Yesterday somebody said "I don't think you thought this through." That really annoyed me. Part of my real life profession involves promoting critical thinking. I worked on this video and through my own journey of various feelings for nearly a year. I interviewed members of the LGBTQ+ community. I interviewed a therapist and a very talented psychologist who also happens to be gay and has been a player in my campaigns since the mid 90s. I also discussed this in depth with a college professor who DMs for young people so I could understand their perspective. That’s not an “appeal to authority” and the person who said it is, clearly doesn't understand logical fallacies.
I only made that video because I want people to be happy, protected, true to themselves, and free from abuse, violence and trauma. That's it. Thank you to the 92% of people who understood that without me saying any of this. (At one point the downvotes had it at 72%)
I have nearly deleted the video a few times just because some hate has been so extreme and c-PTSD doesnt make drama something I need in my life,. However, I end up just deleting the hate so it doesn't effect you and our channel. Youre an awesome supportive community!
Hopefully I can just refer those who go out of their way to misunderstand my video to this post in the future rather than to keep revisiting it. Now I need to DM an epic battle today for the conclusion of a very dark quest line. Thank you. I hope everyone has a great day!!" - Aten
I just came across this video and your channel today. I haven't even watched the video yet because this comment caught my attention and it's enough for me to subscribe.
Now, on to the video.
@@jcraigwilliams70 I hope it lives up to your expectations! And welcome!
Oh, I was looking for comments that criticize your arguments but I couldn't find any. Probably they were all hate speech then...
@@DottorVinz there should be some at the bottom. The political rants I delete that. I don't care what "side" they're from. I'm not into BS tribalism. Tribalism makes people idiots. I want to hear people repeating political buzzwords about topics they don't grasp as much as I want to hear about their toilet habits.
@@DottorVinz also, there was a community post (which is what this pinned comment is from) that got really ugly. I deleted that community post and thread because I have zero tolerance for drama on this gaming channel. People can go to Reddit or find another TH-camr who does that.
I feel like choosing who you play with solves all these issues
Exactly
That is the most obvious solutions.
Yeah, I agree with that, but.. Many times these issues are either never brought up at session 0 or they are intentionally avoided by players and they creep in later in the game. Sometimes players are so anxious to find a group they are totally nice at first but over time, their behavior goes back to the real people they are, then... how do you deal with it?
I am very tolerant of people, almost to a fault, but I have a ZERO TOLERANCE for this kind of behavior. I kick those kinds of people out quick without much discussion. Am I being cruel and insensitive? No. I simply do not allow deceptive people in my life.
@@helixxharpell You could always have a simple one page word doc that is something like "game expectations" or "social contract" and have it there "anything sexual will be faded to black". if someone objects it they should then not play it.
Yeah, and having the self respect to dismiss yourself from groups you don't gel with is paramount
So what I'm getting from this is... Just talk to people and treat people's boundaries with respect. Yeah I can get behind that.
totally
Fav Line: "If you are determined to misunderstand my intentions here..."
Absolutely and truly inspired, sir. Genius.
Thanks! I think we should all be careful when deciding to engage with people who wish to intentionally misunderstand us.
Can I just say some people get hilarious with this stuff in particular. I was on an RPG forum where they were literally mad if the GM didn't PAY A SENSITIVITY READER to review their campaign before play.
Yeah that might be too much. Ive seen a lot of people try to kill D&D but they've all failed. However I think D&D can be killed and the thing that will kill it is the popularity. A lot of D&D tourists right now dont actually like D&D and wont be playing in a few years. They're just doing it because pop culture tells them to. And those people are making lasting changes to the game.
@@nowayjosedaniel That's quite a discussion there. Originally, I was going to name this channel "We Love D&D," but fortunately, WotC reminded me of how much they suck and how much I adore many other games. I've been focusing on D&D mainly to gain subscribers. Unfortunately, my other videos don't attract much attention, despite the significant effort I put into them. At least, not yet. Once I increase my subscriber count, I have plenty of other TTRPGs to cover (I've already posted a video on the channel about my favorite ones from the 80s). Next weekend, I'll release a video titled "Only Noobs Think 5E Sux." Despite the provocative title, I believe you'll enjoy it because it delves into my personal journey from thinking 5E sucks to my current perspective, explaining why everyone should move beyond the easy targets. As a side note, although my group primarily plays 5E, on days when not everyone can join, we switch to WEG Star Wars d6 or Mutant Crawl Classics. I'm genuinely excited to explore many other games, but it can be disheartening to see them fade into obscurity in the TH-cam algorithm after investing so much effort. Therefore, I need to focus on building up my audience first.
Sounds like a racket.
@@nowayjosedaniel _“weirdo normies”_
Isn't that like… an oxymoron?
If the normies are weird, then that particular brand of weird becomes normal.
Honestly I can’t believe this is real, maybe it’s just for my own sanity but I have to believe those are trolls
This is well said. As a "grognard" myself i cringe a bit at the structures, like consent checklists and the like. Communication and empathy has always been the important thing. I once had a new player. When the giant spider minis came out, she was visibly upset. I stopped and asked if she was OK. She revealed she had an intense phobia. So, no worries, I adjusted the encounter, no judgement. The goal is for everyone to have fun, not to be traumatized.
Good move on your part and thank you for being compassionate.
@nowayjosedaniel Sounds a lot like a friend of mine. Told me he has arachnophobia and if it ever happens that I notice a spider close to him or god forbid on him I should do anything needed to get it off of/away from him before even informing him it happened.
I was in a game where a guy completely freaked out because a player's apprentice, a kid, got killed by AOE damage. Good thing he left before my evil ratling exploded a possessed child.
@@nowayjosedaniel well, it was a friend of a friend, and an acquaintance of mine. She just wanted to know what D&D was all about, andi just wanted to make it a fun experience. I was surprised she had such an extreme reaction to the description and the minis, as I knew she was big into the horror movie genre.
When she told me the spiders upset her, I just took her at her word. I don't know the full circumstance or degree. I would hazard to say many people use hyperbole when they say they have a phobia, especially if it's undiagnosed. I thought changing the scenario was a fair compromise; to err on the side of kindness.
@@BlazingOwnager That sounds so Warhammer.... :)
This is a well constructed dialogue. No one I've ever played with (since '82) has ever done anything that couldn't be shown on network television.
Thanks.
@@nowayjosedaniel I have played a half-succubus in D&D, and Habbalah of Lust for In Nomine and a stripper in a Shadowrun game. My games are described as grimdark in the extreme and Dark Sun is my favorite setting.
My games could also be shown on network tv, with the exception of the combat.
You can hint at things without describing them in graphic detail, such as that Habbalah hanging out in churches, looking like a 15 year-old boy to entice the priests to give in to their sexual urges without being vulgar about it. All it takes is the occasional “damn it, I missed the mass at St Mary’s” to remind the other players of it. The angelic players in that game didn’t question working with me because I was using myself as the bait for the souls worthy of the hell instead of leaving innocent victims in their wake.
So yeah, it can be done.
Meanwhile, my table has never done anything that wouldn't.. uh.. be shown on The Boys.
@@nowayjosedaniel Correct. Our Conan would have played more like Conan on network television. Cutting out the naughty bits. And I'm not saying people can't play with adult content. I love game of thrones. It just never came up in our gaming sessions.
@@almitrahopkins1873 Just dropped in to say you are the first person I've seen to reference In Nomine without me bringing it up first. Here I was thinking I was the only fan.
Important to remember: this cuts both ways. You wouldn’t have someone who can only be available from 2-3 am on a thursday in a group so it’s ok if you make some game world with a mechanic a player doesn’t want to join with and just accept this isn’t gonna work. Nobody is forced to censor their game. If people want to do an evil campaign some people can’t hang, but even then people can still find themselves not on the same page. It really is important people decide ahead of time where they want to go and what the lines are. Yes, many people won’t ever do something too weird but if you want to do something weird that’s where it matters the most to get some consent on what you’re doing. And, as I said, there isn’t anything inherently wrong with telling a player they don’t fit with the group/game. Genuinely no downside to talking about this stuff.
Yeah. I was literally handing out four page "Session Zero" introductions in the 90s to make sure it was a good fit for everyone.
@@welovettrpgs yeah, the one thing I’d add is if a DM is having a hard time getting 3 people together to play the game because one NPC is a problem maybe, just maybe, you edit that to where people want to play. Nobody has to be censored but maybe getting a game going is better than being a stick in the mud on one or two things. I don’t think I’ve ever been too uncomfortable at a table, that’s a blessing in a way. Not everyone gets to say that. I like the joke about scoffing at this stuff, it really is that way, but nobody wants anyone uncomfortable or hurt at their table.
@@kingVibe111 Agreed, NPCs shouldnt be tools used by DMs to cause emotional harm. Not NPCs, not adventure themes, nothing.
I was fine playing an evil campaign, but there was one person in the group that made all the rest of us in the group uncomfortable by having his character go extremely dark with what they were having their character do. There is a difference between having characters deliberately spreading a deadly plague and poisoning the water supply of a land to cause widespread unrest as part of a plot to overthrow the rulers of the land and having a character frequently kidnapping random children and graphicly describing how they torture them to death to make them become different types of undead. We repeatedly told him he needed to tone down what he was doing, but in the end he ended up having to be removed from the group.
@@stagehog81 Thanks!
Remember that one unfortunate kid in school that had a neurological condition that could cause them to fall over? They had to wear a helmet all the time for their safety. Safety tools as presented are like passing a rule that ALL kids have to wear helmets, then expelling the kids who don't comply. No one benefits in the end. To paraphrase Frank Zappa, Beheading is a cure for dandruff but the cure is much worse than the affliction.
true. That's my point about being locked in a basement full of spiders by a cult of evil clowns.
I like this video, but your comment bothers me somewhat.
The analogy sounds good, but like all analogies, it's not perfect.
People who wore those helmets would be snickered at behind their backs.
It's more that we should make reasonable accommodations for people who det upset by certain topics and not make them change for us, because we are one bad day away from needing that same sympathy ourselves.
How do safety tools ruin your fun so much it's like cutting off someone's head to cure dandruff?
@@dorianleakey I'm not sure if you're responding to me or the other? If you're responding to me, are you going out of your way to misunderstand me? Literally my entire video is about protecting vulnerable people. I'm not here to argue or fight with deliberate attempts to redefine my intentions.
@@welovettrpgs I am responding to the other comment, I am not going out mf my way to misunderstand, I am trying to see how someone with an axe to grind may see what you wrote and interpret it in a way that will grind their axe real good.
@@dorianleakey Thanks! And thanks for understanding. I appreciate that. 93% of people get it but the remaining 7% seem to thin I'm either telling them how to run their games or I'm not being sensitive to vulnerable people. Thanks Again.
It’s really about hospitality. A GM is a host, a host’s obligation is to make folks experience welcome in the spaces into which they welcome others. The concept that this is an obligation has been kept, the art of doing it has been lost as our culture has gotten more and more procedural. So the tools get used as a procedure through which that welcome is extended. The ad hoc way folks used to do it, and still do it, doesn’t compute for a rather large swath of players. Is it the way I go about it? No. Same goal though. I’ve used “line and veils” long before I ever heard the term because…well I’m not ok describing rape or abuse and fading to black on romance is for my comfort level as much as anyone else. And Monte Cook’s tool for this is not bad. I think it’s too long but I’m more of an ad hoc person and I tend to play with people I know or keep the rating to PG-13, anyway.
Now, when the procedures are divorced from the desire to extend hospitality, that’s where the toxic behavior comes into play. Either, as you say, by pushing the limits until someone reacts with revulsion or by someone using the tool to control the table.
Well said, Sir. As a Gen X gal and forever DM, I have always used the "session zero" idea mostly as a way of helping the players finish or tweak their characters. Making sure everyone understands the general overtone and setting of the story. This works well for my table. Btw my players include Gen X, Millennial, and Gen Z. So, while I am not utilising session zero in the exact same way as others, it is something I agree with.
A very good discussion. As an old--school RPGer myself, who mainly plays with similar people, I think we've always found that tolerance, respect and common sense count for a lot. We have ..... stories, certainly, but mostly pretty mild compared with some horror stories I've heard or read in recent times.
I do not oppose the idea. But I do feel that. as with most things well-intentioned, the whole matter of 'safety' can be over-used, even misused. 'Too much of anything is not necessarily a good thing', as the saying goes.
********
As regards hyper-sensitivity, I am reminded of a delightful piece from the comic strip 'Bloom County'. One of the characters, a penguin named Opus, is sitting at a bus stop with a random group of people.
Out of the blue, someone says to Opus, "I'm sorry, but your smell of herrings offends me..."
Someone else immediately responds, "I am offended by your offense/'
This suddenly opens a floodgate, as EVERYONE there (except Opus, who continues to sit quietly) starts finding things to be offended about - "That sign offends me", "I am offended by that", ""Frankly, you offend me.", etc., etc., etc..
Dramatic pause. Entire crowd looks horrified, says in unison, "My god. LIFE is offensive." They then run away screaming in all directions.
Leaving Opus, sitting there alone. He says to the 4th Wall, almost apologetically, "Offensensitivity.".
Thanks!
There's a lot more I could have included but I'm trying to keep my videos at no longer than 20 minutes. Last year a young woman on reddit was talking about some really gross stuff her boyfriend was including in his game, explaining he thought it was OK because, "His Father did it." Not only did she need to stop playing D&D with him but needed to leave that relationship.
Well, that relationship went wrong pretty quick didn't it ?
"Protect the vulnerable..." , by infantilizing people ? Heroes aren't made by Safety Tools.
6:50 OK, I can see that BUT what sort of unreal world was the game set in ? How is sex-based discrimination at some level not part of 99% of history for 99% of the world. Obviously most any "normie" IN the world of Conan who thinks to demean Valeria is in for a hurting, and this lady Paladin you had certainly ought to get the same respect in her/your world.
@@stevekillgore9272 Yeah, I havent changed the beliefs of that nation of NPCs just how I present it in my games to be respectful of others.
@@welovettrpgs Present it the way you wrote it. Don’t change it at all.
You should have told the player that she is the hero in this story. If she broke a nose or two standing up to misogyny, the women in that kingdom would be uplifted by it. That’s how I would have handled the situation. I would have even slipped in a bit of xp every time she did it. When she got high enough level to start attracting followers, the majority of them would be the little girls who watched her break some noses years before.
That gives the player agency to change things that they might not be able to in real life. She probably would have loved that. It would have made the game more fulfilling to her.
First contact in my feed for your channel. My group has been playing together since around 2014. When the discussion of safety tools came to our table for discussion we felt we didn't need them. We were all friends and felt if there was an issue we could openly discuss it together. We do have a session zero like discussion while making characters when we start something new, but that's about the extent of it. Liked your presentation of this topic. Subscribed.
Welcome! Thanks !
Count me as one of those Gen X players that never felt there would be a need for what people are nowadays calling safety tools. For one, I always engaged in continuous dialogue with my players about the game; and, for another, as you suggested, a lot of these topics just aren't things that I would consider bringing into a tabletop roleplaying game. Admittedly, some audiences might find the concepts I use to be the kinds of negative things from the physical world that some players are trying to escape from for a short while (and, which they wouldn't want as part of their gaming experience). However, my warning would be more along the lines of "if Edgar Allan Poe or H.P. Lovecraft are not your cup of tea, then you may not want to play in my game."
Given some of the horrific things that we are, here, talking about introducing to the game; I wouldn't want to play in those games myself. I think you're spot on with the advice that when the subject material presented in the game is that reprehensible, then no safety tool is really going to be effective; at that point, it's time to remove yourself from that situation, and find a healthier group with whom to play. I know the furor of social media comments will make this a subject that some will resent being broached at all; but, it's worth saying, even if only one person hears it and thinks to themself, "it's OK for me to say, this isn't right for me, so I'm going to withdraw from the game."
Thank you. Agree! I appreciate you talking time to share your feelings!
Fundamentally the uptick in the usage of RPG safety tools came about because I think of the large explosion in the interest of the hobby around the introduction of 5e. In this context it makes sense, these are things you you learned to do with other people who are mostly similar to you over a long time, but when 50% of the hobby wasnt playing 10 years ago it can become important to handle these issues in a more intentional and formalized way.
The explosion in the hobby size often means that a larger number of people from a more diverse set of backgrounds are coming together to play, and more and more often people are playing with people they do not know outside of the D&D context. This means that they are much more likely to make some critical error and make someone feel hurt or unwelcome. And so distilling the wisdom of older game masters that they have developed slowly over a few decades into something that can be studied and implemented within a few hours seems like it could be useful or important.
Of course, like with some harm reduction practices, like Vapes and Boxing gloves (studies show that because of the gloves protecting their hands, boxers punch harder, and are more willing to hit people in the head for example, and some people when they hear that vaping is safer than smoking increase their consumption), now that people feel like they have to tools to do something they would not have otherwise considered safely they are more likely to try and push the boundaries.
Now I dont use much in the way of safety tools in ongoing games myself, I only play with people that I know, I do have a pre session discussion with my players about what kinds of content I am interested in permitting, but I play with people who are similar enough to me that this have never really been an issue. But given the sudden influx I can understand people wanting to discuss such things, and them glomming onto a term that already exists, that can make it more clear what the thing is supposed to be about.
"How not to be a dick to your players and make sure that everyone has a good time" is much more of a mouthful to say compared to "Safety tools" and while your proposed change to "Organisational tools" can work the name is misleading as far as what these tools are for. Organisational tools makes me think of some kind of filing system, or a particular way to use highlighting in your notes. This means that it is a name that is only useful if you already know the thing it describes and is significantly less useful if you are a first time DM trying to make sure you have done all the things you probably should have done before session 1. I do however agree with you that for the most part tools like the X card shouldnt be used with great regularity and in most cases the people that make youtube videos about such tools are likely to admit that they have rarely seen them be used.
I can see the possibility that something may have come up in the game that didnt get mentioned in session 0 because it didnt feel relevant at the time. Maybe Hannah has an abusive dad, and the scene where the big bad beats something physically and emotionally down in the middle of a fight reminds her to much of her childhood, something that she mostly doesnt have issues with, but this one instance gave her post traumatic flashbacks, hannah should definitely see a therapist but should maybe have something on hand that allows her to signal "I want this to stop please" as unobtrusively as possible.
Those are my thoughts at least , TLDR, Safety tools as a concept were an expedient way to teach a massive influx of players how to be kind to each other, this expedient method was necessary due to the increased diversification, and a increasing shift from D&D being something you do exclusively with people you already know and trust, to an activity you do with strangers found via online LFG pages, The term safety tools was choosen mostly because it is the term used for such tools in other subcultures, and the name more clearly communicates what the tools are intended to be for, as opposed to your new term which can easily be mistaken for something else, finally while I do agree that for the most part if people feel a need to routinely use the "No button" style of safety tools they probably shouldnt be playing this game (or potetially the DM shouldnt be Dming this game, if they keep putting the same content in that you keep having to nope out of) There are legitimate usecases for such tools mostly stemming from the fact that a particular anxiety trigger may not be known at the time, or may not cause issues consistently, or may not have seemed relevant at the time.
Great feedback. Thanks
This really sums up well a lot of what I like about safety tools. It helps get people on the same page. Keeping everyone’s expectations aligned helps people to be playing at the table they will find most fun.
Organisational tools makes me think of google drive, docs, sheets, or things like world anvil. Safety tools initially made me envision people sitting round the table wearing hi vis jackets, hard hats, safety goggles, gloves, bubble wrap and corporate risk assessment forms. But then I'm well aware that I have always had issues taking things far too literally. I don't have a better name though, and don't think you'll gain traction trying to change it's name at this point. So I'll accept the name that has stuck, even it does still conjure silly images in my mind.
@@FringeFinder even if they are the wrong images they are closer to the mark than organisational tools. At least you imagine people.being protected from something. Even if the resulting image is humourous and nonsensical
Really glad I found your channel! I've been looking for more dungeon tubers that actually give advice, not just cover news. Awesome video!
Glad you enjoy it! I'm not interested in trending topics or chasing whatever is supposed to be the topic of the week.
I think this is a quality video. I had my problems with safety tools too. Thank you for the context. In my games there are two safety tools: 1) if you can't speak with your own mother about a topic, don't bring it to the table 2) if you don't like a topic, speak up, then we simply move on. No drama. It's a game. - same rules for me, the GM.
Thanks. "Don't be a jerk or hang around jerks" are the only safety tools anyone really needs.
@@welovettrpgs But we all know that person that does not notice that they are around jerks - I was that person. And I was the jerk once or twice, that's for sure 😸Greetings from Germany!
@@Frederic_S Thabks! You know, we've all been accidental jerks at one time or another. I try to remind myself and others, "never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." None of us are immune to stupdity. I think by promoting critical thinking and by understanding confirmation bias we can however be better people. But none of us are perfect. I'm sure far from it. Thanks!
"turns out experienced people had been doing all along" "Your DM is not your therapist" lots of good quotes and context here, thank you Aten, this is a good contribution to the community and I hope more people get to see it !
These are exactly my thoughts, but put in such a clear-minded and eloquent way that I would never have been able to express myself. I have always thought of framing content warnings as "trigger warnings" to be both condescending and presumptive; there are plenty of reasons I wouldn't want to hear about SA aside from having experienced some past trauma.
Most of us got in the hobby because we wanted a social outlet and we didn't have the skills to socialize in other ways. It is tough enough to deal with DMing a game, it is too much to expect us to be therapists on top of that.
Thanks!
Thanks for posting this. You've explained something I've been having an issue with since I first noticed all the trigger warnings on DMs guild stuff. I knew I had seen this before but couldn't remember where; those infamous 3e source books.
Anyway, well said and like you, I've been doing most of these things already. As another Gen X DM whose been playing since the 80s, I've found you pretty much have to build up a set of house rules for acceptable table behaviour.
Great to hear!
I think I saw this pop up when you first posted, but I didn't watch it then. I came up again today on the recommended page and so I gave it a watch. As someone that has played off and on since the '80's, the safety tools were something that baffled me as to what actual need they were filling. Interesting video, no matter how the comments may pile on you now and then. I have never put together a detailed pre-game document like you did, but if I was thinking about something and wasn't sure if the players would be on board for it, I would simply ask before planning anything that had a chance for player objection. Otherwise, I tend to run pretty "safe" games, since I have run games for families including children down to the age of 7, as well as games in a teen center for a while.
I'm glad you watched it! Thank you!
This is a good offering in my humble opinion.
This is the first of your videos to have come for me. It is a pretty well reasoned take and delivered with the requisite amount of calm to be useful. I get why a lot of the old soldiers need to vent over the subject, but that does not accomplish anything except blowing off steam, in my opinion. Your are saying some new things and that is helping me as I am researching the topic. Good luck on the channel going forward. This earned you a subscription. :)
Thank you very much!
The "If you're an Adult DM and you need safety tools to tell you what you shouldn't be doing with child players" is spot on.
The majority of the time I see situations in which people need to have the "Safety tools" is when DMs are massive red flags and people need to pack up and leave because it's not a good time. People need to be equipped with the tools to not veto something in the middle of a game, but instead, have the tools to know "I need to personally leave because there's not going to be fun here, and it'll damage my mental health and possibly physical wellbeing"
I do believe there's a time and place for really dark topics, but that's for a group of mature people that can tastefully handle it, but there's a billion more stories to tell that don't delve into such things. Lacking the emotional maturity to be able to "Know your audience" and to further keep it to themselves, is just not good.
I think "Session Zero" is fine and normal, most people just do it to get their character sheets up to par and it also helps you filter out, "Is this person right for the game?" and "Is this DM right for me?".
I recently worked with some young teens (13 to 14) and had a good, long discussion on how it's up to them to care for their safety and how it's a normal and healthy thing to see red flags and bail, instead of "Going along to get along" and suffering a toxic situation just to try and "Make it work", that there's so many other tables, so many other friend groups, to actually engage with and actually have healthy fun with, and that it's not the end of the world to recognize when a group just isn't healthy, and taking your leave. A lot of people have been taught "Tolerance" as a virtue to their own detriment, and that's simply wrong, it puts people in unsafe situations where they feel like their emotions are invalid when others are being predatory and crossing lines, but then there's also people entering a misery spiral where they vent but do nothing, feeling like they can do nothing, and instead of going "I need to leave, I can find another group and it'll be ok" they often go "It's all I have, no one else will want me, I suffer and accept this or I have nothing" and it gets really bad. There's also, as you mentioned, the "You need a therapist" situation where a lot of young people seem to have unresolved issues and instead of tackling the issue to either be able to cope better or, hopefully, resolve it, they try and just ignore/remove/soften the problem to an absurd point, and it's not good to enable that level of maladaptive coping.
The young people I was working with ended up addressing the problems around them and had serious discussions with their friends and managed to get out of bad places, while also finding groups that are actually functional and have some level of emotional maturity. They still fell into pitfalls, but they're 13, we all had those hormonal days of emotional pitfalls, but, they've been able to pull themselves out better because they now know they have the tools to actually try and make it right, and they have a choice in the communities they interact with, and they know when they see a big red flag, they can simply walk away instead of "Put up with it" because it's the "Nice" thing to do or something.
We gotta get the young people equipped with emotional maturity and teach them about proper social interactions, and this video does a great job explaining it, there's safety guidelines and proper conduct we have to teach people to follow and then disengage if it's not being respected. Similarly, there's adults that really need to reconsider what they're doing and how they conduct themselves, if you're being a massive creep, it's not acceptable.
Thank you! I appreciate your feedback!
Brilliant as ever. So many good thoughts, and great use of The Safety Dance at the end. I just did a Session Zero last night. One thing I noticed about some 1e modules like The Giants, is that the juvenile hill giants are monsters too, with the stats of ogres. We were teenagers when we played and I don't think we thought about it too much, but now we're adults we are more sensitive to these things so I leave them out. This came up in the Session Zero. I also DM for kids and we did a horror-based adventure. I was a little concerned and had a chat with them about the content. It turned out to be a bit of a Disney movie by their standards! Your friend's phrase about sensitivity vs hypersensitivity really rings true as well. Like you, when I was young I was teased for being sensitive but now I have a hide instead of skin, whereas these days some people appear to be looking for things to be offended by. As you say - find the right group for you.
Thanks buddy! I'm still very sensitive compared to most. Rachel from the story once said, "In most movies at the end when the bad guy dies people cheer. But thnk of all the violence that bad guy had to subject us to to elicit that cheerful response for his death."
Well done, and well handled.
One thing that I insist on with my players is everyone being on the same page before we get the game started.
And they need to let me know in advance if they have any major/crippling phobias.
Finding out that one of my players is starting a minor panic attack because I got a little purple with my prose is not fun. It was handled, but still...
Thanks! Yeah, we arent DMing to cause trauma and no amount of safety tools is going to stop a DM that wants to cause trauma. They just need to leave.
@@welovettrpgs Very true.
The only time I want to cause fear is if everyone signed on for a Horror game.
@@joshuawallen8112Fear yes, trauma no. I love horror, but it can be hard to tell which of those it's gonna be to whom in any given situation.
Personally, I had a change of heart regarding safety tools when a new player I didn't know prior to her joining the game long after session zero left after a few sessions because the horror campaign I ran gave her nightmares. She did sign up for a horror game, but I should have talked to her about what we'd call her lines and veils nowadays before letting her join a horror campaign with a bunch of people who could merrily watch Brain Dead during Dinner.
@@krempelritter9950 agree. But have seen people telling their lines and veils and even with them completely not working with the group, still demanding to join and the group changing.
@@andersand6576 That's very true. Safety tools don't solve problems like this. Demanding to join is never a great move. Asking to is ok, so ist asking for changes, but demanding such things is clearly out of line. I don't like to play with entitled people anyway.
This is my absolute favorite TTRPG channel. Such great information and in depth retro reviews. As an OSR fan, I have learned a lot
OH Thank you!! That's so nice to hear! Best wishes!
Agree: RPGs are therapeutic but they are not therapy. talk to me, and if I can make some adjustments to make it more therapeutic for you I will. But I won't take away from the tables fun and expectations. But I know where a lot of games are irl, I'll find you a suitable home.
Thanks! I agree with you. I'll do what I can, and even promote it as theraputic. But not actually a replacement for therapy.
When a Ttrpg tries to be therapy it ends up like Wanderhome, a Ttrpg that fails to be game.
@@twicedeadmage true. I'll never forget a player we interviewed back in the 90s (we had to put up player wanted signs at local game stores). After he left we all said, "D&D can be theraputic but that person needs way more therapy than we could ever provide."
I totally agree that ttrpg shouldn't be a therapy with very rare exceptions (they are much better than drinking your problems away though, but neither is really the right solution), but what confuses me is whether "if you have this problem, you need a therapy, not safety tools" implies that you need to heal enough so the topic doesn't bother you in the game anymore before you can play and ttrpg at all, featuring it or else.
I mean, if you are so arachnophobic that you need to excuse yourself from the room just because spiders are mantioned, than yes, you probably really need to address it. But I wouldn't say that you can't try looking for the game that doesn't contain spiders meanwhile. I understand that it's a very simplified example (and that in some cases, yes, you need to wait until you get at least somewhat better until you are good to play anything at all), but it was featured in the video, so I believe I can use it.
I agree with every word, 100%. Yes indeed, we had limits before there was an official term for it. I play RPGs to escape the drama of every day life, to get away from the crap that the nightly news spews out, I don't need that spilling into my own games so it is just sheer common sense that we avoid certain topics, especially when we have players of various ages playing (and we don't need cards or anything to avoid those topics, we just.. avoid them).
Thank you! I was honestly worried if you would like it. I value your feedback! Thanks!
Exceptionally well written episode. I have someone who practices misogyny of varying degrees in his characters at the table. This video is encouraging me to consider how my character can constructively confront his character in-gane, to get some productive dialogue about it. Thank you. 💛
Thank you very much!
*Oops, I meant "in-game," not "in-gane," LOL
Thank you for making this video. It's been a while since I played any TTRPGs and wasn't sure what the term referred to. So this was very informative and, I do agree, the term organizational tools is better as this is all about setting basic expectations, limits and ensuring that people in the gaming group know they will be listened to.
Love this! Yeah, we've been using basically this at my table for years. We have two main ones; there is no such thing as SA on my world. It doesn't exist. No one can do it. I'm not interested in that sort of story. Second, children aren't allowed to be in danger. This is because my group don't like the fact that every time kids are in danger of some sort, the party ends up killing them, or letting them die. So no more kids in peril of any sort.
It's been great too, at my table because we discuss what we want to play, the style, the themes, the "vibe" of you will.
Great stuff man!
Thanks!
Grognard here... This was a great video. Thank you for sharing. I am one of those eye-rolling, groaning GMs that hates the idea of safety tools. You made some good points. I want to specifically call out your point that I've been doing some of these things (check ins, session zero w/ setting theme discussion) since the late 90s. I was pounding out a comment about this generation's obsession with categorizing and labeling everything when you mentioned it.
GMing is my favorite hobby, but using funny voices and describing violence leaves me exposed and vulnerable, so i only like to do it with people I like and trust. This is why I doubt I'll ever GM a game in a store or at a convention with strangers walking around.
Again.. well done, and I endorse the advent of ROT (roleplaying organization tools) making its way back into the vernacular.
Thanks! I agree ROT is great! :)
Thanks for this. I am also an aging (old ?) white guy with most of the behavioural biases
and socio-cultural limitations that that would imply. I always rankle at the thought of "safety tools" as a required consideration for a gaming session .
I was unaware of the actual history of how this developed - thank you for including that.
I have the fortune of playing games in general and rpgs in particular with mostly people that I know from other facets of life , and therefore have a reasonable handle on what might
cause issues for them , so generally we operate on common sense , and that has worked
( as far as I know ) well over the years.
I think as long as you reinforce to your group that your and their interests are in having an enjoyable time , and that you are committed to doing what you can to make this so , intelligent conversation both before a campaign , and as part of your regular after action discussion can really cover most situations.
Thank you for your great feedback! It's a relief, it really is. I've almost deleted the video a few times for the outrage it has generated. (From the reddit crowd)
Very informative video. I'm one of those younger players you talked about and it definitely shifted my perspective. I will say, on the note of sex not having a place in TTRPGs, I disagree on a certain condition: I think it's fine, given that the people playing/running the game are in the same intimate relationship. Otherwise though, yea, I'm not sure it belongs either.
I explain it more here: th-cam.com/channels/2BFynPoJE9K7VqIhmRDkAw.htmlcommunity?lb=Ugkx0AOn1_BESOXY6mQ9qOEMlPZeklpHrfme
What a very thoughtful video, I enjoyed it and your presenting style. RPG's & Psychology.. the two topics I seem to watch the most of lately. Great video.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Overall good video. I'd like to offer a little feedback with the forewarning that I'm not trying to dictate how you express yourself. I did have a reaction to this video, but I had to work through what caused it because there are a lot of topics covered. After re-watching a few times it seems you find things like check-ins and session zeroes common sense practices, but you feel content warnings and X-cards are signs there are issues that need to be covered outside the session. Am I understanding that right?
The trouble I had was in gauging which 'tools' you felt were common sense and which 'tools' were misused, harmful, or unnecessary. If you're making a blanket statement about all of the tools, then I'm afraid I'm very confused. I feel like the video could have been longer to accommodate topic transitions or shorter, excluding one or two subjects that muddle the message a bit. In my own perspective, of course. If others didn't feel the same, I may be the odd one out.
I appreciate your feedback. I feel most issues and concerns should already be covered and discussed before the game ever begins. That might be as long or as brief as necessary depending on the people and ages involved. If after the game starts something comes up then something has gone wrong. A person joining a horror themed TTRPG should already know what they're geting into. (BTW, I have a how to do horror video on the channel. And it doesnt include the need for graphic murder porn) On the other side of that if something comes up in a regular "typical game" then somebody probably has an unresolved issue that needs to be addressed outside of the game. It could be the GM or the player. I'm really only interested in people not being harmed and not believing the false promises of x cards. An X card isnt therapy. I hope that helps. Perhaps other comments could offer further help in addressing intentions? Thanks!
This is a good and concise video. I very much appreciate you also showing where the X-Cards come from, I was completly unaware about Sax & Sorcery. I fully agree with your point "Labels makes us stupid". The reason we use 'Common sense' is because it makes us TALK about what we see as common sense with eachother. That builds an understanding between GM and Player, and as a group. That understanding is what makes the game more inclusive and safe, not a set of rules released from a stranger.
Thank you very much!
thanks for this one...probably the first rational & genuinely sensible discussion Ive heard on thev subject from any source. Totally worth this Old Grog's time to listen to the whole thing,..
Cheers
Thank you very much! I got a lot of hate for it but it's worth it to try to break through the misinformation.
Finally got to watch it, this is a must see video for anyone who plays or wants to in my opinion. Your rational and researched approach to the subject was great, you should be proud of this because it's really good. I'm overly tired right now so I'm going to nap, glad you didn't delete it Aten. =^_^=
Thank you very very much!
This is the best video on the topic of safety tools. I myself have never cared for them or had much use for them because, much like yourself, these "safety tools" were inherent in our character and familiarity with each other in our group we all knew where everyones' lines were and knew when we could walk thise line and when to stay a mile away.
Anyway your eloquence has earned you a subscriber
Thank you!
Me at the beginning of the video: “I’ve heard every point on this topic already”
Me at the end: “I hadn’t thought of it that way before”
Thanks!
If this video gets you to think then I've done my job. However, I'm a little surprised by the extreme emotional response some people are having. Are they intentionally misunderstanding my message? A member of my gaming group said, "Anyone you lost, quit watching before the end." So yeah ... please watch until the very end before hate posting. I'm pretty sure some of the hate posts didn't do that. Also, after several attempts, rather than argue with people, I've decided to just delete comments which are along the lines of, ""Youre a prude for thinking a graphic detailed scene of my character having sex shouldnt be in the game." followed by "We need safety tools to protect people from my character having sex." Some have said safety tools come from the BDSM sub culture. I know this. Trust me, I don't need a lecture about BDSM. And I don't care if a group of people from the BDSM subculture play D&D and want to have oodles and oodles of imaginary sex in their games. But for clarity - that's not D&D. That's people from the BDSM subculture playing D&D and bringing their subculture into their games. And that's fine - however you want to play D&D is fine. But for the vast majority of people who arent using a table top roleplaying game to have imaginary sex there shouldnt be a need to protect people from you having imaginary sex. And if this video upsets you, just wait until next week when I explain why only NOOBZ think 5e sux. Thanks!
Of course 5E sucks it's not Moldvay Basic/Expert which is the best edition of D&D.
I appreciate what you are saying in this comment, here. And I appreciate your overall message.
I also appreciate that D&D is played in a different context today, than it was in the 1980s, 1990s.
I don't want to war or fight; but I do want to share what felt mean to me. I don't think you intended any mean-ness, but I want to share when and how it came off that way to me.
At 14:40, the video says: "What you need is to leave the room and find a new group of friends. I can't stress this enough. If you have a Game Master that finds abuse "fun" there's a very real possibility that person is not emotionally healthy, and there aren't enough RPG tools in the world to fix that. Just leave. Find a new group. Find a healthy game. ... Just be careful because this also means there's an increased likelihood of untreated and dangerous mentally ill individuals participating in the hobby. Don't allow unhealthy behaviors to be normalized in life or our gaming."
First, and I think you have already thought about this, but I did read what you said at 14:40, as implying that you were positioning BDSM as mentally ill, and not something that should be normalized in life. That's not an insane belief; Reasonable people can believe that, and if you believe that, I support your right to say what you think and argue it. But as feedback, it came off to me as a banishment. And I see from your paragraph just above, that that's not at all what you intend.
The second and more personal thing is, -- I'll just share personally, though I imagine a lot of people had a similar kind of experience: I was born in 1977. My friends & I played D&D, GURPS, Champions, Shadowrun, Albedo, Jorune, and CRPG games like Wasteland, from say 9-16. These are cherished memories, and most of the friends I made in that time period -- we were a bunch of outcast nerds, and we are still friends to this day. It feels like the bonds of those friendship are some of the strongest bonds I have known in my entire life. And: We organically, as teens, brought our sex dramas and fantasies into our games, and this felt normal, even sane. I find it downright healthy, because we were struggling, and we connected with one another through our games. We'd never say it at the time like that, but that's abstractly speaking, that's what it is was: It was a place to have fun and explore a game and actions and fantasies and weave them all together, and, us being horny teenage sexually frustrated boys, we brought that to our games as well. I understand that that makes society nervous, (I think that society will forever not know what to do with teenage boys,) but it felt like a vitally important lifeline to us at the time, and I think it actually was. So this message of -- "What you need is to leave the room and find a new group of friends," -- I don't think you have anything out for my friends and I. But there was a hit that -- it felt like that, for a moment.
I want to be clear. After reading your paragraph above, I don't think that's what you intend or intended. But it felt like that to me. And I want to appreciate that you are speaking to an audience of 2024, with it's own dynamic. It is, very clearly, a very different time. I appreciate the difficulty of speaking to mixed audiences.
@@LionKimbro Here! Here! Bravo sir! That took some courage! Thank you for sharing that! 👏👏👏👏👏👏
I know you asked to not get political, but you probably already know the implications
I’ve played D&D with a bunch of BDSM enthusiasts. That game was one of the most vanilla games I have ever played in. It certainly wasn’t anything like what I would have expected.
What it comes down to is that people who feel the need to interject that sort of thing into a game likely don’t have any sort of sex life outside of the game. That’s the sort of thing that they need to work on, because it is unhealthy in the extreme.
You can do anything in a game. You can be anything in a game. But certain things in a game are going to make me not want you in my house.
Can I please give this two thumbs up??? Relevant. Useful. Balanced.
Thanks man.
Thank You.
When I saw this channel I was thrilled and excited to watch, considering you are my former guild leader! Ill admit, at the beginning of the video I thought it was satire but I continued to watch because understanding others' arguments is the only way to really understand your own. Then you started making excellent points and I found myself in very near 100% agreement. The only point of disagreement is that there may be compelling reasons for more adult themes that advance a story within a campaign, though admittedly I cant think of any off the top of my head but one must allow for the possibility. Abuse of players, however, is absolutely unacceptable. I would like to add something about "trigger warnings. " The term "triggered" (used as it is today) originally described something that could cause a person with autism to melt down. Having two adult children with autism it is something Im acutely familiar with. I think that, with the best intentions, that term began to be misused and watered down to the point where it has become a parody of itself. One last thing before I go scorched earth in Gianthold... Wabbles is a good choice of dudes to quote!
Ron! I love you buddy! Great to see you! I hope all is well!
And yes, there's a meme that says, "Stop saying triggered when you really just mean offended."
Whoa. I did not know the origins of this. It really kind of puts it all in perspective.
I even had some similar feelings when I first heard about them. Ranging from thinking it was stupid to maybe I should implement them in my games. I had seen some other videos discussing how some people would try to take advantage of them as well.
Knowing where they came from though is a bit of a shocker.
Yup, "let me protect you from the stuff I'm putting into the game" isnt a great act to wanna follow.
Whew! I am so happy that I have never had to encounter any of these people in my game. That is likely because I have stuck to playing only with close friends... and some of them are the people I played with back in 1981 when I first started playing. :-) Yeah, even that is no guarantee that I still wouldn't encounter issues, but, thankfully, I never have, personally. This is great advice/information, Aten. I hope all gamers take it to heart.
I'm getting some extreme emotional responses from this one.
@@welovettrpgs Oh! I am so sure!
Thanks for having a respectful conversation about the subject. I don't feel strongly against or for safety tools, but I DO feel really strongly against people who dismiss things like empathy in a petty and patronizing way.
While I probably wouldn't bother with safety tools in my established group of 7 years (playing Fate with discord and a VTT every week since), I do occasionally want to play with new people or strangers, or even have a quick pickup-game. Listings for games and LFGs IMO can benefit from *some* sort of safety tools (I wouldn't call them RPG Organizational Tools, unless we're talking about Excel.)
Since I'm recently trying to delve more into one-shots with strangers, I myself am looking for a few of these tools, and I'm trying to get maybe the 3 top three that aren't 1) a pain in the butt, 2) ruin the fun for everyone else. I can see the X-card as being disruptive, but Lines and Veils, if anything, look very useful at least to decide if a player is a right fit for a group (I wouldn't want a player who doesn't like scaly things to change a game of Leisure Suit Barbarian vs the horde of the Lounge Lizards, but I have no problem removing snakes if snakes don't actually add anything to a game. My grandma was terrified of snakes. I doubt she ever saw one in real life, but even just the word was triggering to her). I don't even consider Session Zero by itself a "safety tool", but it can include them.
Thanks! And I too am disappointed in people and their culture of outrage. It doesnt serve them or society. I also despise all political buzzwords because they allow people to be ignorant of the issues and angry about things they don't understand.
Thanks for researching this and for sharing your findings and your opinions on the matter.
Thank you!
I think the fact that Greta was able to let you know very easily and quickly about an issue that bothered her is all the safety tools anyone needs. And a little common sense. Don't like body horror? Don't play Call of Cthulhu. I mean little bit of common consideration in common sense it would seem to cover most of this
Agreed. Some responses have been like, "BuT wE nEeD sAFeTy ToOlZ tO pRoTeEcT pEoPlE fRoM tHe GrApHiC dEtAiLs Of mY cHaRaCtEr HaViNg SeX!1!!" It's like that joke, Patient: "Doctor it hurts when I do this." Doctor: "So dont do that."
I probably would have also thought this was a dumb topic, but you certainly made me think about issues- another super great video.
Thank you.
WOW. As a fellow Gen Xer I believe your video has the best take at explaining or at least bringing to light these concerns in a reasonable non judgemental way. Most times I see a "trigger warning" I generally roll my eyes and move on, thinking how can you know what "triggers" someone and adding that trigger warning makes me and I'm sure others take a hard pass, I'm no longer interested in anything that video or article covers.
Thank you. I appreciate your feedback.
I think one reason that the safety talking points are so extreme is to help everyone recognize that they also have limits and imagine what it would feel like to violate those.
It's a good point to mention that these are never expected to be part of the game, but everyone should be willing to signal their discomfort if it happens.
Kids have limits, too. My son was attacked by a big dog when he was 5. It would be unreasonable to say that dogs should not be in D&D, but it could be unpleasent for some.
Yes I can understand that. We all have our issues one way or another. I hope your son is doing well. Thanks
@@welovettrpgs Well, he's 18 now. So, he's mostly over it. But that mostly is all the more reason to give players and dms every tool to defend themselves that we can.
I like the X card concept because not everyone is verbal or confrontational. But i also think of you're going to employ such tools, you should make sure they are used.
Perhaps, instead of deviant story behaviors as examples, We can just practice with other RPG conventions. Use the X card if your turn is skipped. Or if a player action would force your character to leave the party. Or if DM describes an action that doesn't make sense with your understanding of the world. That way you don't inadvertently make the safety tools themselves as taboo or disruptive.
Well said.
In rpg club we had an in flux of people doing exactly this. Demanding what topics could be included in games, even ones they did not play in.
A well written and well delivered essay, sir. Thank you for putting in the work most or all of us did not. Your argument is more convincing than any other I have seen/heard on this subject.
I salute you.
You're very welcome. I really appreciate your support!
In addition to everything else, on a personal level, half of my regular Sunday gaming group are members of the marginalized LGBTQ+ community and it is important as their friend and DM to be sure I got this right.
Great video, really liked it. Kept searching for the like button, only to find i had already pressed it.
Only thing i missed from it was a bit more explanation for what the different safety tools acrualy mean.
I am one of the grognards, though not as old some of the true greybeards. Started playing in 1988.
Have used session zero for decades. Being the one who wants to beat stuff up in a group doing political intrique is never fun. Always ask people to write me in private before a campaign, not just triggers, but also what they want to see in the campaign, combat, role playing, drama and so on. But as a general rule have the trigger warning "if you need trigger warnings, don't play anything i have written".
Worst case i have seen in person was a one shot at a convert.
Rules light. Gm is a friend, medical doctor per education. 70-80s horror movie setting, rural USA.
Van with teenagers run out of gas on a deserted diner.
Player twenty something woman "i pull out my cellphone and call for help"
DM "its 1975, you dont have cell".
Player pulls x-card, starts rambling about hot not having her phone triggers her and demands her character have a phone.
DM tries to tell her no, but she starts faking a panic attack when he refused.
So it ends with character having a phone calling for help and one shot ending.
Later convention leaders call me in, they know both me and and DM, asking what happened. I tell them this and they say thank you. After convention DM tells me player has run straight to the convention runners and reported DM for causing her to be terrified and hinting at sexual inappropriate actions.
Of course DM was cleared, but damn she got a kick from getting her will, just because she could.
Sorry for the wall of text, just wanted to show why some of us grognards gets triggered by triggerwarnings.
OMG the x card story!! wow!
@@welovettrpgs the x card did not feel like the biggest part of it. More like a horrible person story, pretty sure she would have done the same had the x-card not been standard part of the room.
The exact kind of person you describe so well in the video.
Very insightful and well-said! I think you broadened the horizons of the issue and were objective in your views!
Glad you enjoyed it!
This was well parsed and stated. I loved how you unpacked the myriad of issues at play.
Thank you very much!
Very interesting video. I've started playing (and primarily running) pen & paper rpgs some 30 years ago and developed my own 'organisational tools' basically just like you did. At first I didn't believe 'safety tools' were needed, even though some parts of my own toolset were the same thing under a different name, so I can totally relate to your perspective.
Some 15 years ago I had a player leaving my table, because my Vampire the Masquerade chronicle gave her nightmares. She had joined late (like 3 or 4 years into the campaign late), so she had not been present for what nowadays would have been called session zero. I didn't get to meet her before her first session. Also my reaction to her telling me about her nightmares a few sessions later could have been more thoughtful. I've thought about this ever since and even if I don't have an exact answer to the safty tools question I think it's an important thing to consider, especially when playing with strangers, even moreso when story and setting deal with darker topics.
I haven't read what you linked yet, but I think that for many especially younger people it can help to have something called safety tools. Calling it by that name implies that the GM is taking their players mental and emotional wellbeing serious. I imagine that's a reassurance for people who grew up with such things and may have been raised to take the absence of safty tools as a red flag.
I'm pretty sure many newcomers to the hobby are exposed to RPG horror stories on TH-cam or Reddit even before they get to play for the first time and those stories heavily imply what their comment sections will spell out: safety tools are mandatory and only predators won't use them. While I know that it's not as simple as that, someone who just started googling Dungeons & Dragons fir the first time will not.
As of now I don't see a problem in calling those tools safety tools. I'll check out your links and see if they change my mind.
Thanks for sharing. Just to reiterate, an X-card isnt a substitute for therapy and D&D is not therapy. I think I'm pretty clear in the video that a healthy gaming space is important.
@@welovettrpgs Yes, you are. I didn't mean to question that. The only detail I disagree with comes down to semantics. I think I get why you prefer the term 'organisational tools', but I also think some people can benefit from calling them 'safety tools' instead and I see no harm im doing so.
After reading the first linked article about trigger warnings and the first paragraph of the second I realized that I might have a different understanding of what they are supposed to do than other people. I always thought those warnings we're meant to stop people from reading, watching or listening to the following content. It never occured to me that people would think those warnings would lessen the impact. I can see how this expectation can cause avoidable harm.
I might use trigger warnings for RPGs in session zero in order to give people a chance to either change the themes of story and setting or to drop out.
Sidenote: the Wikipedia links don't include the last brackets which are part of the lemmata. They do link to pages asking "did you mean...", which provide the correct links, though, but you might want to update them nontheless.
Session zero. Always always always have a session zero, or a re-zero if you have new people joining a campaign. With that, you know what you are getting into, things you might encounter, and any questions or concerns can be brought up. I feel things like X cards are only needed if it's a complete random game with no setup and a lack of communication - which, imo, doesn't sound like a very good game to me. Otherwise, with proper prep, people can speak up and mention "hey I don't want this", or "hey this type of game isn't for me", and leave the table. Asserting boundaries from both the player and the GM + transparency between everyone is so vital to a long-form TTRPG, and honestly a session zero can fix most of the needs for rpg safety tools.
This is a great video. The thing about safety tools is that I respect the intent behind them even though I personally don't use anything like an "X" card in my games (I just let my players know that they can call a "time out" to talk about whatever). And I do think that "Session Zero" is genuinely a good idea because I like to include my players ideas in planning the game. Likewise, someone who is overly dismissive of safety tools may (note the word "may") serve as a red flag that they may also be overly dismissive of the other people at the table. Before I got into DnD I used to read plenty of RPG Horror Stories online and want to avoid stuff like that happening at my table so I always make a point to talk to new people at the table to explain some things and get feedback.
Thank you very much!
I believe you have articulated what I've thought about this topic ever since I heard about it. Even as a new player, I had that knee-jerk rejection of safety tools, but only because potentially sensitive topics rarely if ever appeared in any game I played. If they did, a simple conversation sufficed to solve the problem.
The rise of safety tools felt bizarre to me until I found out what kinds of things some people were apparently doing in their games, but even then, this catch-all restriction did not seem like a proper solution to me, because why were these poorly handled topics even coming up in a social game in the first place?
I have since been in a game where intimate content happens on a bizarrely frequent basis and with almost cartoonish levels of gratuitous detail. However, it's not traumatizing to me in particular. It's just disruptive and it sabotages my investment in the game.
I've never understood people's penchant for including this stuff in their TTRPG sessions. The point of a sexual fantasy is to illustrate the ideal scenario for the audience. Why would anyone want to sabotage that with any possibility of failure via dice rolls? More importantly, why would anyone want to subject others to their private fantasy to begin with?
If they legitimately have the desire to force that scenario on a non-consenting party, then that's their problem that they need to work out, ideally with a licensed professional.
Exactly and the "non consenting parties" part is important. I see in my comments people defending sex in their games - even suggesting I'm prudish. I'm definitely not prudish for not wanting sex fantasies inflicted on others at a gaming table.
Had to have a discussion with a player recently and a general mention at the table certain topics are just not cool. What almost happened in game made a few players very uncomfortable, and I'm not going to narrate someone's twisted verbal prawn, especially when it could spell the end of the campaign.
Like you said, not sure why people want to do that in a group setting to begin with. We are all adults, and sure things can get steamy but the action was sa and while it didn't get all the way to that point in game (thankfully) I had to nip it in the butt for future sessions.
Overall, I do think that the general idea of the safety tools is good. As you said I find myself doing Session 0s, and something akin to check ins, but it's more having just frank discussions.
However, when it comes to content warnings and such, both in real life and in reference to RPGs, is that if you cannot handle basic normal life, then seek therapy. As you said.
I do counter one thing, and that darker topics in RPGs *can* be fun, provided you have a group that from the get go expresses a want to explore such topics. Which circles back to Session Zeros. Granted, going into graphic detail about intimate topics requires a very specific group that is very specifically ok with/into it collectively.
Also, for the specific topic of rape and such, that is very much included in the base game. You have to look no further than Succubi, Incubi, and frankly basic charm and dominate spells. But what I find interesting is most of the people championing the heavy safety tool usage don't seem to mention that, unless they're the ones complaining about how the monsters (which are pulled from *mythology* usually) are harmful/racist/sexist, what-have-you.
Check out my Succubi video on the channel.
im only 2 minutes in and I get... concerned when I see someone taking this kind of stuff to task.. you know what I mean.
So I wasnt sure what to expect, but so far you seem super even handed and level headed in the discussion. Looking forward to hearing what criticisms or concerns or suggestions you may have as i watch further
Thanks! I'm 100% for protecting people from harm. (Not everyone in the comments seems to understand that.)
Thank you for the parent warning at the beginning. I totally agree with the points made. I have seen the some sessions zero discussion points that had “is this topic okay or not” type questions. And I thought wow! I hope I don’t encounter those people. But as a female gamer, I have also DMed a game where one of the players said he was going to assault my NPG in an adult manner. It ruined the group. As the only female in a room I was done permanently.
"sessions zero discussion points that had “is this topic okay or not” type questions." Oh that was absolutely on my mind when I made this!! If somebody needs to be told some things are off limits I'm not hanging around. Oh that is digusting to hear that someone would want to do that but that says a lot about their inner fantasies so a good warning to leave.
Thanks!
I play with adults. All female. We deal with some serious dark themes. A good DM knows how to read people's body language and walk the line, never going over it. Having female players sexually assaulted is never "Heroic" but we had a popular NPC that happened to (off Screen so to speak) when the party was arrested, tortured and exiled to the desert by corrupt officials. They met another NPC in the desert who joined the party and spoke of how that baddie did the same thing to his wife, murdering her and his son. Months of real time and 2 years of game time later, the baddie was criminally charged after a power shift and fought the party Monk in a judicial duel and the monk won with 3-4 HP left. A High Stakes heroic victory over a hated villain with no guarantee of success set up over months of play. The player put her character on the line for justice knowing there are no raise dead spells in this world. Also the NPC whos wife and son were killed, nailed the baddies head to the prow of his ship in lieu of therapy. The Female NPC was also the subject of several quests to restore her mental health for lack of a better description. The PC Monk and NPC Ship Captain remain blood brothers. These topics can be explored ethically with the right people, and good writing, but players should always be fighting against the sociopaths and not playing them, or playing with them.
100% no sociopaths. Thanks!
I very much appreciate the level headed approach here. I certainly agree.
Thanks!
Great video and a fresh take! Keep on with the awesome work you're doing on this channel!
Thanks so much!
I was pleasantly surprised by this video, to genuinely learn something that other D&D tubers aren't talking about. I'm saddened to hear there's been such a negative reaction from others. I'd bet many of those people didn't watch the entire video.
Thanks, I'm sure they heard something that offended them and stopped listening. I've been responding to comments for the past 36 hours from people who think I'm a prude that hates sex, hates safety tools, and think I want to not protect vulnerable people.
I have worked in mental health and disability services for nearly 15 years. I live with a personality disorder myself. You didn't say anything objectionable by a reasonable person. Not everyone may agree with all your points, of course, but there's no legitimate grounds for that sort of offense taken.
Good video
You have to know your group. I’ve been playing with the same group for over 30 years. We don’t need these things but we cover them anyway we may not use your terms.
I agree about the therapy and gaming.
Good advice
Thanks buddy! I appreciate you!
Bravo - A beautifully (and mindfully) executed video on a surprisingly polarising TTRPG subject. 👍
Thank you kindly!
Very good video, and very good comments. Nice to see such a respectful thread. I agree between 99%-100%. The more of your answers to comments I see the more I confrim that I am on the same page with you. The only nuance (is that right ? English is not my native language) I would bring to the discussion is that the amount of going beyond leaving the shoe at the door , could vary (with everybody consenting of course) on the ttrpg you are playing. For example in Vampire the Mascarade, especially when Anne Rice inspired there might be moments when being a bit more graphic is conducive to the story. A more extreme example was this Hellraiser inspired Kult one shot I played once, just to see what this was all about (Sort of like giving a horror movie a shot to see why your friend likes it so much). Excellent game master and good and nice players. I had a good (instense but good) time but definitely not something I¨m looking to repeat. I still play with the GM from time to time but in other genres. At the end it all boils down to beeing clear and upfront what the game master and players want to achieve with the campaign or oneshot and beeing able to talk openly if something isn´t working out. The concept of cards to point out situations that make one uncomfrotable seem to me like there is not enough complicity between Gm and players.
"it all boils down to beeing clear and upfront what the game master and players want to achieve with the campaign or oneshot and beeing able to talk openly if something isn´t working out. " exactly. thanks
I appreciate the way you handled this topic. I always set expectations with new players before they ever come to a session. Communication, in all areas of life, makes things better. I also agree that not every group is going to be a good fit for everyone. And sadly some people are just toxic and avoiding them is in your best intrest. Peer pressure can cause making healthy decisions difficult but that happens in all areas of life.
Thanks!
@@welovettrpgs I'd also like to say that anyone that is having a strong negative reaction to this video is probably one of those toxic people who need some therapy that you mentioned and they probably just feel called out. Hopefully this is the kick to the rear they need to make some positive changes in their life.
One thing that should be made clear is that these Safety Tools shouldn't allow for DMs to be total jerks. Because if you need these tools to run a productive and fun game, that means you don't trust yourself to set expectations for your game. If you are not an experienced DM that can set expectations and respect boundaries, using other tools that might conflict with how you might do it could just as easily exacerbate the issue. If you're not an experienced DM, gain some experience first so you can set expectations YOUR way.
"Safety Tools shouldn't allow for DMs to be total jerks" - one of my big concerns.
I really like your explanations and arguments here. Very tempered and compelling.
I am currently in two different games. One group is very crass, profane, and sexual about everything. The other group is almost comically puritanical in contrast. Do I sometimes feel slightly uncomfortable in the former and slightly suppressed in the latter? Well yeah. But at the end of the day, both groups are people that really care about each other and me, and always listen and understand, and ultimately make me feel happy and belonging.
Thank you!
Excellent! Excellent! Excellent! Opinion piece! I once started playing a new word based RPG on the internet. I was so new to the game that I did not know the mechanics of the system, but I decided to play a homeless waif thief and immediately after joining the game, she was raped by another player. I was shocked and moved on. More recently, I thought I would experiment with playing a chaotic evil character in a discord game. I gave her a backstory involving benign neglect and verbal abuse to rationalize her behavior, but she was ruthless and desperately trying to prove her worth to the group, but I admit that I made her a bit of an edge lord; descriptively seducing and torturing an NPC for information and planning a one woman black ops attack on a group of evil cultists to open a path towards the goal for the rest of my party. She also openly distrusted a new PC because his in character appearance in the game was under suspicious circumstances. In other words, I played her exactly as I imagined a character with reactive attachment disorder would do in these situations. Regardless, the DM said that I was not the right DM for her and asked me to move on. I can respect that. I can see a number of potential boundary issues that could come up with that character. She interested me, because I could see a potential healing character arc for her, but to heal, she needed to start from a place of woundedness and she could easily be too wounded for my fellow players. I should have done my own "session zero" to explain what my character was all about to see if she would offend the others in the game. Back in the old days, when a game was simply "find the goblins, kill the goblins, take their loot." this would never come up. Now, the game is "find the goblins, see if they are really a danger to the countryside, hope for some loot if you have to kill them." It is a very different game reflecting a very different cultural awareness.
Sir you are a scholar in this subject. I appreciate your time and effort.
Wow, thank you
I understand your point that the RPG parties previously had the opportunity to discuss avoidable or sensitive topics without a formal framework. However, I consider it a step forward that we now consciously use these tools.
Yeah, I'm not saying to not use them.
I think all of these headaches are just a result of people refusing to accept that:
“something for everyone”
is not the same as (and actually mutually exclusive with)
“everything has to be for everyone”.
Genre conventions and tropes are like promises for what to expect, and you don't play with randoms in the game shop or internet in the same way you'd play with someone you have rapport with.
For some people, in some games, TTRPGs are absolutely therapy, but they're therapy in the sense of allowing the players to offload all their frustrations on whatever hapless NPC gives them an excuse, via unspeakable and disproportionately violent acts of savagery (tip: never let the quiet kid play a Tzimisce in the first place when they're going through an edgy phase, or it's too late).
For others, they just want a nice, relatively peaceful sword and sorcery adventure with their friends.
I wouldn't say one of those is more valid than the other, you just need to establish the 'contract' clearly in advance.
It boils down to preventing 'false advertising', and surprising players without violating essential expectations.
Someone who signs up for an edgy game may be offended by it _not_ being edgy.
Just market what you're actually “selling”, and if no one “buys”, consider a different “product”.
The replacement of these conventions with strict standards (or worse, these weird conventions that allow one player to railroad others and the GM mid-game) sounds like a recipe for rules-lawyering trolls.
Some people just want to be difficult or parasitize your time and energy with nonsense.
Those people are better avoided in and outside the game until they get their issues fixed.
It sounds like the ideal fix for public games might be doing the session zero thing the OP suggested, with good use of foreshadowing.
The initial session can act as a “microcosm” of the larger story, containing hints about all the stuff likely to occur later, that players care enough about to draw them in or push them away.
Thank you very much for your support! "For some people, in some games, TTRPGs are absolutely therapy" - to your point, one of my long standing players since 94-ish is a very talented and experienced psychologist who is part of the LGBTQ+ community. Hearing about his work experiences would give most people nightmares. He even recently told us plays D&D because the escapism is theraputic. But I do think the distinction should still be made that theraputic and therapy are two different things. Thanks!
@@welovettrpgs Yeah, I should have put 'therapy' in quotes, since I meant it half-jokingly.
But I do think this stuff we're seeing is an extension of this weird mindset we're seeing more and more of, refusing to acknowledge that tastes vary and accommodation is always a tradeoff. E.g., I would personally set the bar very high for what it would take for me to interrupt the GM or other players and break character because of some issue in the session. I might complain privately if I thought the game was boring or annoying or whatever after the session, and repeated issues may cause me to leave after letting the GM kill me off in an entertaining way, but just demanding a stop (X-card style) and interrupting the flow seems really rude to me without a really good reason.
Just do a proper session zero like you said, and avoid the potential for snake oil salesmen and rules lawyers worse than the regular kind.
Also, definitely agree that escapism isn't something to be ashamed of when you're using it to cope with the difficulty of actual productive work you do for others, and you take care of your own needs, like an adult.
Games and other media have been my only real solace for years now, with constant overtime at work and hustling on top of that to make ends meet.
Only a problem if you use it to further enable some hopeless descent into sloth.
@@DefinitelyNotAMachineCultist Thanks!
Just because somebody doesn't like safety tools doesn't mean they don't want to protect children. I specifically run only 18+ games for that very purpose, and I am not entirely sold on some of these tools. A couple sound reasonable, but I consider them less as "safety tools" and more just plain common sense and/or courtesy.
I explain more here: th-cam.com/channels/2BFynPoJE9K7VqIhmRDkAw.htmlcommunity?lb=Ugkx0AOn1_BESOXY6mQ9qOEMlPZeklpHrfme
I get what you're saying, and this is not hate-posting. Like I said I agree with some and not others; I just took exception to that one statement, that if you don't like them then you don't want to protect vulnerable groups like children. Otherwise I either agree outright or can agree to disagree.
@@ironskald7 I agree with you. For the most part this was a really good video -- just a few "opiniated" statements were made -- and that was one of them. Another obvious problem with safety tools is some people use tthem to push their "moral" or political agendas. Again, like yiou I agree with almost all the points of this video -- just think this video could have been like half the length. A little too much preaching.
Yes -- safety tools are an interesting thing -- like all tools can be used for good or bad purposes. The tools themselves aren't good or evil -- they are just tools -- it's all about how you use them.
@@quantus5875 Thanks. You make a good point too about potential abuse; I wasn't even going to go there, but it is definitely a thing.
My immediate issue with the inclusion of safety tools is that it feels like I was about to write prose and suddenly might find out that I've got to write poetry. Sure, it could turn out that free verse is acceptable, but my mind goes straight to the worry that I'll be stuck counting syllables and grasping for rhyming couplets.
To be more specific, what if someone in my group has qualms against themes of suicide and I'm not allowed to just retire a character that I've grown bored of playing? Will it be crossing a line if I try to give that character a heroic death?
(It would be nice as an ADHD spaz to not be tied to one character that the rest of the group tells you how to play, but also lacking charisma IRL, being told how to play my character seems to just be the way D&D functions. So, I need to find some character that I would be happy being told how to play.)
Good points
Yeah, it's really pretty simple. Play with people you like. If someone crosses a line, tell them so. If they do it again, consider not playing with them.
For sure. Thanks!
Aside from the obvious connections to the broader cultural zeitgeist of safety and sensitivity, I think a big factor that's often overlooked in the push for RPG safety tools is the explosion in online play. Online interactions have a depersonalizing effect that emboldens people to engage in bad behaviour they never would try face-to-face, and online games are much more likely than in-person play to involve complete strangers in the group, further increasing the risk. While it certainly wasn't unheard of to play TTRPGs with strangers before online play took off, it was less prevalent and usually also in a public space (like a con or LGS) which usually helps encourage people to be decent. While certainly not the only factor, I think this deterioration of common sense and interpersonal decency that comes with online depersonalization has had a significant role in creating the perceived need for formal safety tools.
Great points. I had considered that, regarding virtual play.
Your labels section is the main reason I dislike "Safety Tools." To me, they make these tools seem like new things in the space, but as you said, take a step back and look at the grander picture, GM's have been doing these from day 1. A lot of the tools just seemed to be "Talk with your GM" but in such a roundabout way it, as you have said, almost makes it worse.
This is a great video explaining the dichotomy of the topic.
I have never seen safety tools promoted as a means of addressing trauma in players. They're actually the exact opposite, they're for avoiding topics that people will find too much and give them a bad time.
The idea that this tool will cause more harm based on the data around content warnings doesn't invalidate the concept and anyone that says as much is probably acting in bad faith.
I used a pre campaign questionnaire that asked players what they want to avoid and what they want me to be careful around. The results were anonymous so no one felt forced to explain their reasoning or go along with the group to fit in. I also said that i was going to touch on some sensitivities through the game but people have control, they tell me to stop and we will. These sensitivities weren't around sex btw (just as an aside, this is a pretty sex negative video) but around things like violence and illness, two themes very common to DnD. The answer imo is not to exclude people with that sensitivity but to trust your players and yourself to be able to work around it and be accountable and open to the idea that we can all harm and be harmed but that doesn't make us necessarily bad people.
I think putting things down to 'common sense' is too simplistic. We all fall short in knowledge and skills that others may feel are basic or fundamental. That doesn't mean you can't learn this later in life or work to enhance your skills in an area.
Most will understand my video, but not everyone.
This has been my experience, too, and my games are the more fun for it
I really like your content. It is always well thought out and informative. Thank you for sharing your viewpoints.
I appreciate that!
I can't imagine how and why anyone would be triggered by this. The pros and cons were laid out cerebrally. This definitely needed to be said....and this video says it best!
Thank You! I've learned that my videos also sometimes serve as IQ tests and not everyone passes! I've had to fight off / delete so many people on this one. The downvotes are insane. I've considered deleting it many times.
Informed and educated opinion presented in a civil way. Way to go!
Thank You!
I really appreciate the video. I do wonder if the conflation or overrun between D&D as chill casual gaming and D&D as a tool for working through stuff stems in part from the CritRole phenomena, in particular, the level of 'behind the scenes' and panels that this show has that gave insight into the personal journies some of the players were on behind the characters - Liam in particular. I have myself gotten unexpected empathy, I hope insight, and new ways to see the world thanks both to the RP and the openness to discuss issues in all three campaigns BUT - these are seasons and (relatively :)) matureRPers with a consummate DM and a LOT of behind the scenes discussion to cocreate the game before covering those topics. Clearly, no point of this was or is meant to substitute for therapy, even though RPGs can have a good effect as therapeutic tools in the right hands. But it could be that some new players and DMs have a bit more of the expectation to 'create sweeping dramatic traumatic stories' from the get-go since that is what may have inspired them and moved them into picking up the dice in the first place - which can overwhelm the caution of 'careful what you mess with' and 'ask and respect boundaries' sensible rules that should go without saying.
It can also get tricky and need more maturity than was perhaps evident in the early RPG writing to deal with mature topics properly. Hard to have a properly PG character, one could argue. Clearly a true big bad may well do pure evil things like torture, slavery, assault, etc.; horror is an important theme to explore (and hard to do undead without it unless you are playing a Shaun of the Dead campaign). It seems vital to be able to convey the themes without turning into a transcript of Saw. This is the same as a good storyteller reading a room and adapting to it - like not telling the grossest jokes over the Christmas Dinner table with all the kids - rather than ploughing in their narrative or the highway (see some stand-up comics).
Your own words are an important reminder - some go out of their way to misunderstand, cause or take offence. These can be equally as toxic/destructive as tables that trigger trauma for the thrill or lols without consent, or players who insist on having Proficiency in Edgelord and Main Character Syndrome at the table (or in life). Very sound advice - walk away, find another table.
Thank You! Great feedback! I appreciate it!
A lot of it comes down to playing a game being a social event. The standard rules apply. No one issues x-cards at a wedding or a dinner party. As the host I will inform you up front if special rules apply beyond the usual.
Totally why I used that George Carlin clip. People need to be taught to not be jerks. Which is weird but here we are.
Honestly, it just now hit me that in a way safety tools are a bit like blaming rape victims rather than the rapist. Nobody should be putting up with a toxic group to begin with.
My main issue with RPG safety tools is that they seem like a means to avoid genuine discussion & communication. They also create a false sense of safety. I say this as someone who initially bought into the hype before listening to grognard after grognard complain about them. People I agreed with on almost every other issue, who I felt didn't like them due to the politics of those that broadly supported them. Yet these same "edgy" grognards would often place little caveats or talk about how they stopped using something in a game.
As time went on I realized the gronards were right. I kept feeling maybe they would be usefull for more hardcore stuff like horror games for a while, but for most games they where right. They treated players like infants, and they ultimately were more of a disruptive element at the table than a means of mitigating harm. When I finally ran a horror game the problem finally hit home. As I realized from that experience that the only way I was going to get real information was from talking to my players, and simply listening to them and trying my best to gauge their reactions. No amount of safety tools were going to make things safe not the same way simply communicating, and getting my players to communicate with me was going to do. In fact the attempt to employ those very tools made it much harder to properly communicate.
Well said. Thanks
Yes, well said!!
During the Covid lockdowns i played and ran a lot of Adventurers League games. They were online and i encountered a lot of different people. Most were fine but there were a few who were not ok. With several years of experience running games for well over a hundred different people i didn't know before i can wholeheartedly say: These systems don't work! For nearly all these people i didn't need the safety tools and the few who went too far ignored them!
There is one concrete example i have: The group captured some Duergar and questioned them. They were mercs and had no loyalty, so they told the group what they wanted to know. One of the players wanted to torture them anyway and wanted to describe in all details what he would do to them. Several players told him they didn't want to hear that and that they would not allow it to happen. He got angry and just startet to describe how he would stab one with an arrow. I had to intervene and tell him to shut up or leave the table.
He then threw a temper tantrum, telling me he didn't have people this sensitive in over 40 years of playing. I allowed some PvP and he left angrily.
Tldr: Safety tools don't work. Just tell people who cross boundaries to fuck off!
I think the overall message of my video is to protect vulnerable people and to inform Grognards. Also, to "get up and leave the table" if you are in a bad situation because as you state, "For nearly all these people i didn't need the safety tools and the few who went too far ignored them!" But I wouldn't go so far as to say they "don't work" as Ive used them since at least the mid 90s (without that label of course.) and they have worked fine. I just remove anyone who will not follow my table norms. Thanks!
@@welovettrpgs Fair. Maybe i shouldn't use absolutes like i did. It is my experience and there were only three people i remember with the most extreme example i used here.
@@Eisenbrei Thanks. and I do have some real horror stories! Best wishes!
The first time I heard a list of safety 'rules', which is what it was called in that conversation, I thought the list was just kind of common sense that I had learned to include while I was still just a player, before any games I ran.
1. Check new players with a single session to see if they will fit a present campaign or will fit better with a later game.(session 0)
2.Set ways to get DM attention that permit someone else to finish their sentences.
3.Work on meta-conflict resolution as soon as it crops up so you limit out of session, real world conflict.
It was all stuff I had been taught to do in the 90s.The deeper explanation that came when I was wanting to get back into pen & paper gaming as a player around 2011 after a hiatus of several years, sounded like a whiny diatribe hitting the E-brake on a campaign just because someone felt uncomfortable. That was because it was a D&D 3rd edition game that had homebrewed Call of Cthulu rules added. The point was, on certain levels, to explore the discomfort in the horror of the setting.
I added another one to their list and noped out of their offer to join.
4. Set the game for the players. You will have ways you want to run things but, the players are the storytellers, you are the setmaker.
Also, I remember that massive wave of 'adult' RPG supplements in the 00's. I looked into them out of curiosity and quickly moved on after strip mining the most minor of elements that didn't include idiocy like rolling for thrust count. I was primary DM for a few groups on my AF base with a few systems (tristat, WoD, D&D, D20, GURPS) and wanted a way to add spice, not get my players making out at my table.😂
"Rolling for thrust count" I'm speechless. (Also I grew up near McCord AFB and Fort Lewis. Thanks for your service! )
I for the most part agree. I think "trigger warnings" in this context just means laying out certain themes and vaguely describing certain moments to see if anyone in the group will have certain (mostly) uncontrollable reactions.
I never had one but I think you can have sex filled games but it's a group that really needs to be on the same page. There is a lot of trust required there.
I had to put a content warning at the start of my succubus video to protect children. They're not all 100% bad.
My girlfriend at the time bought the Book of Erotic Fantasy from a local gamestore and she was a pretty progressive person. We read through it and just laughed and laughed about it. It was just so absurd that you know that NONE of this stuff would fly in any group whatsoever!
Absolutely!
I have one safety tool, it has been the same since 1988, "If you act like an asshole, you leave the table." That pretty much covers it. You and I have the same thoughts on the matter. "Safety tools" are a way to introduce toxicity into a game in the guise of keeping it out. The players can use them to actively bully the GM (been there done that) to make the story they want it told, GM's can use it to be creepy as fuck. Actual conversation with your players is the best safety tools you can have.
I have A LOT of learning disabilities. RPGs made me stronger, capable of functioning in the world (at least for short periods of time). It HURTS me to see it making people weaker. RPGs are not therapy, but they are safe self-exploration with your friends. Remember you don't have your friends in the room with you when you are therapizing and they probably don't want to hear about your diaper fetish.
I don't join channels often. Even ones I have been watching for years. But this topic resonates with me, and I agree with you on every point. So you win curly mustache guy, Ill subscribe.
"Safety tools" are a way to introduce toxicity into a game in the guise of keeping it out. - That is true but people are missing that point.
@@welovettrpgsgreat quote, might steal it. (:
@@welovettrpgs Yeah -- love that quote. Yes IMO saftey tools like any other tool can be used for good or evil -- and yes by the GM and by the players -- everyone trying to push the story that they want to tell. Agree on actual conversation and consensus with the group -- on what stories they want to tell.
@@quantus5875 Thanks. I followed up with my video on Horror to discuss violence, etc. I still need to do one on intimacy / sex in TTRPGs. I just need to wait and do that on a day I feel like taking a lot of crap from the reddit crowd.
@@welovettrpgs I hear you. I applaud your bravery!! -- it can be a very polarizing topic. Even though I think you took a fairly neutral view of the topic (hard to remain completely neutral) I'm actually surprised you got as little hate as you did.
Glad you did this video. My views differ a "tiny" bit from yours on this subject -- but thought you did a great job!!
We've always played safe and had fun. I'm concerned about this inclusion of disturbing behavior in the newer generation.
Thanks!
As a angry old white guy: I thinks it's more complicated now to don't hurt anyones feelings and more easy to accidentally cause any discomfort. And yes, in part I think it's because as a whole we get more snowflaky all the time but mostly because the ancient technique of not beeing mean isn't in good use anymore. Kants categorical imperative needs more spotight, or as others put it: don't be an asshole!
BTW I admire both your pre-pandemic and current decication to your style and as usual the video is right on point.
Thanks!
You're fine. I'm also a Gen-X Grognard and I just read the Safety Tools for the Heart RPG yesterday and this video caught my eye. I have to say you made me catch myself thinking this was some way to introduce edgier content when the truth is I never should have considered the idea because its just not fun. Thanks for the self check.
Glad I could help!
I may not be that old, but I do have that grognard-esque reaction to the phrase. I knew they existed, but I did not know it was from there the source of "Safety Tools" was phrased.
I am 100% sure that the vast majority of the users of these methods, that go by that name, are ignorant of their origins. I will say that I feel I have a very comparable attitude as you on it being already in my tool box when it is applicable.
I have only ever used one of those major tools, as one of the examples given, inside the Session Zero I always had in a horror game - and I gave everyone a chance to anonymously tell me if any topics should be avoided. One played answered with "suicide". Respectable.
And the reason I did this was because at the time I knew the group had many immature and sensitive people in it. It was as much for my own sake as theirs as I presented the tool.
Thank You!
Regarding Greta: I can respect, "I face this IRL, and don't want it in my fantasy gaming." When that's all it is, it's actually quite reasonable. That's "what I would like to play in this game." (Others who experience things like that too much IRL may instead enjoy having it presented so they can engage in a verbal, social, or even physical beatdown of it. It really depends on the person and what they find enjoyable regarding things that frustrate them IRL.)
Thanks! Agreed!