Black 5 44871 in High Drama on The Bath & Bristol Christmas Markets 28th Nov.
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- The last minute substitution of 5-MT 44871 for the injured 7-P 34067 Tangmere meant the certain attachment of diesel assistance on the rear for the ascent of the infamous Parkstone Bank, and this was provided in the form of Crompton Class 33: 33029 Glen Loy. With my wife in charge of the second camera on Parkstone Station and me on the bridge at Sandcotes Road with the camera mounted on a rice bag positioned on the parapet, the plan was to film the pair raising the train up the gradient with ease. However, things were not to go to plan for the start of this tour when, due to the lack of a driver for the 33, it was decided to chance the bank without assistance. With a load of 11 coaches and probably the most humid and greasy conditions you are ever likely to face, the outcome was inevitable. Luckily, the relief driver on the footplate took the decision to return to Poole Sidings by road and himself drive the abandoned diesel to affect the rescue. Lucky positioning of the two cameras catches the whole story which resulted in a 1 hour delay. You will notice a couple of actions by crew members on the track: the first, thanks to "cyclopsfilm", is evidence gathering of the track conditions for a possible later enquiry, the next looks like the removal of a safety detonator in front of the diesel. The rest of the outward journey went exactly to plan albeit 1 hour behind schedule and we managed to get a good bridge shot, again using a rice bag, at East Grimstead on the long straight from West Dean. Thinking that a depleted water-tank would need extra time to fill at Salisbury, we raced off to Great Wishford, only to see the train approaching as we were climbing the hill, so I quickly hand-held the camera on the top of a fencepost for a quick capture in the gloomiest of conditions. Whilst the passengers enjoyed either Bath or Bristol Christmas Markets, we visited the one at Salisbury and completed the day with the nicest of passengers, crew and locals capturing the sights and atmosphere of the return water-stop on the platform of Salisbury Station where I finally have the luxury of a tripod!
A brilliant piece of video , so well captured and edited . Felt really sorry for the steamer and crew but scenes were like this were regular occurrences when I was a kid. It was always the big engines that had slipping problems while the powerful little tanks seem to be able to cope with any situation. Well that's how I remember it 65 years ago. Once again, brilliant footage and thanks for sharing
Hi and thank you for your kind and interesting comments. The little tank engines had all the advantages of adhesion: small wheels and heavy axle load thanks to the weight of all that water in the tank. Thanks also for your subscription, welcome aboard. Alan
Well documented footage and a gutsy performance from the locos and crew under pressures of time. The last minute substitution of 44871 saved the tour, and the 'out the box thinking by the crew kept the tour on the rails - so well done to them and you for perseverance! Thanks. Ken
Hi Ken and thank you for your kind and astute comments. Nice to hear your positive view. Alan
That's actually some good driving there. No explosive slips and he kept it moving for a lot longer than many would have.
Well observed Greg, thank you for your valuable comment. Regards, Alan
Spot on Greg - impressive locomotive handling.
The tank Locos on the valley lines in South Wales used to have sand boxes which trickled sand just in front of the Locos driving wheels to give more grip
What was a boring-one-hour-wait-on-a-steam-excursion turned out to be a remarkable and memorable event for you - and us viewers. Good going, pal, keep up with those special talents you have of giving us thrills and enjoyment.
I guess I was just lucky with this one and was the only one there to record it, so it was worth paying to stay in a hotel the night before in order to be on the spot. Best regards, Alan
Simply one of the best and most dramatic steam films I have ever seen, so dramatic! Thank you! :)
Hi and thank you so much for your very kind remarks, glad you enjoyed. Alan
Hi Steve and thank you for your interesting question and reminiscences. Detonators are percussion caps (a bit like that used in a toy gun) which are placed on the line to give a loud audible warning if unexpectantly crossed by a locomotive into an "occupied" section (or block) such as we experienced on Parkstone bank. As the slowly approaching diesel was expected and "safe", the detonators were removed as it approached the stationary train. This is my understanding but I would be most interested if anyone out there can add to my answer. Alan
don't give har all the full power all at one just little bit at atime
Came across this by chance and was really impressed by your production quality. You have shown what can be achieved by forward planning and the careful use of multiple cameras. Great work from the 2nd camera, you're a lucky man! I am looking forward to viewing your other videos.
Hi and thank you for your very kind comments, they are much appreciated from both camera-persons! Best regards, Alan
Excellent video of the 5 in trouble due to greasy rails etc Alan, superb coverage, thanks to yours and your wifes patience in filming the unfortunate event, lovely night shots at Salisbury, many thanks for sharing, it's a like, cheers...Bill
Hello Bill and thank you for your kind comments, they are much appreciated. Alan
Hi Alan.
I am watching videos of one of our finest inventions; the steam loco, trains and railways. I think if they had their way, the industrialists would turn our green and pleasant land into one big Choo-choo train set!
Such an enjoyable video to watch, thank you so much! High drama indeed to start with, but what a wonderful atmosphere the Black 5 must have brought to Salisbury station that evening. The sounds and the smell, and the warm glow from the carriage table lighting. You have captured all of it with this video, thank you again for sharing this, wonderful indeed.
Hello Steve and thank you so much for your very kind and heartwarming comments, they are very much appreciated. Best regards, Alan
Hi Alan. Yes, curves do lessen traction somewhat and of course, slippery (greasy-leaves on the rails) rails!! Oh, and I forgot the main culprit!!; The bank!!
Do you know the tale of the steep climb (up Primrose Hill) from Euston Station, London? I used to live not far from an engine shed in Gloucester Avenue, London. This was were routine maintenance was carried out on the loco's hauling trains out of Euston.
The station was so positioned that the trains had to climb a pretty steep bank on leaving the station. With no momentum to aid their course, many engines would labour or fail on the bank! Enter 'The Banker'!. This was another loco set at the rear of the train to help it up the bank!
Today's units have not a problem climbing the bank! The old engine shed is a grade 1 listed building. Volvo, have a repairs and spaying shop on the site.
The slope of Primrose Hill is long and drawn out; that the cutting that had to be made, is immense!! And this was all done with navvies, picks and dynamite!
Euston station was the first main line terminus in England!! The station (and surrounding area) is about undergo massive reconstruction to accommodate the HS2 railway.
My God! When they were building new 'Eurostar' viaducts out of St Pancras, the old bridges had to be demolished and the new viaducts and tracks replaced them. I think the project took more than 10 years!
HS2, will take about 17 years!! Oh, dear!! More 'builder's mud' to deal with!!
Hi Darryl: thank you for your interesting comments, you make many good points. Alan
What a great clip and some great action! Well done.
Hi Ian and thank you for the very kind remarks. Alan
I looked for coverage of this after reading about it in Heritage Railway. Thanks for publishing your excellent video.
Hi and thank you for you kind comments, I am very glad to be of service! Best regards, Alan
A great video and thanks for posting.
You are welcome Reynard and thank you for your kind comment. Alan
I know you have lots of positive comments already and the luck of capturing the subject matter is well covered. However I'd just like to add praise by commending your thought and care, thinking about locations, using a tripod, ensuring the full HD is uploaded. These extra touches are appreciated. So often mishaps are captured in a hurry by any means possible as so often they don't give prior warning, but luck had it here that you were already set up for the showstopper scene (scene 2), and you did not panic. The result is very professional, thank you for sharing this.
Hello John, you leave me (almost!) lost for words. Thank you so much for your very kind comments. Much as my wife and I film steam on the mainline for our own amusement and pleasure it is always a great delight for us to know that others share our interests and are appreciative of our uploads. Let's hope that the steam programme for 2014 is as interesting as 2013 and that we are just as lucky! Kind regards, Alan
Brill. I am a Poole Boy, and have oft wondered about the goings-on on the Parkstone Bank; when the S & D was closed, the Pines Express used to start at Poole - and even though it may not have been fully loaded, there was always a "Banker" to see the Train through to Bournemouth Central. Fascinating set of "Acts" to your story, which I thoroughly enjoyed, thanks for posting.
Hello Laurie and thank you for your kind, interesting and very much appreciated feedback. Best regards, Alan
it didn’t stall. It slipped to a standstill. And I’m impressed that it had plenty of steam in hand. Lovely trees and lots of leaves...
Hello Robin and thank you for your valued comment. You are quite right. Many think that all "stops" are "stalls" but stalling is very rare for a steam locomotive as they will normally slip to a stand before stalling. Most "stops" are due to a combination of load and conditions but stalling is usually as a result of lack of boiler pressure. I remember stalling in Greenway Tunnel behind a Hall in the late 1950's as she hauled an overloaded last train from Dartmouth Regatta back to Paignton. After about 10 minutes, boiler pressure was restored a little and even though we were in a damp tunnel on a steep gradient, the Hall pulled us out and on to Paignton without a problem. Kind regards, Alan
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I don't live in England. I think the countryside in your country is very beautiful!
Hello and thank you for your lovely comments. Alan
Hi Alan and partner. I will be visiting the west Somerset Steam Railway in June this year. My partner and I, who are keen photographers, will be hoping
to make many nice videos of the steam loco's and the beautiful Somerset Countryside. Regards, Darryl (Davey) and Ilona.
Hi again Darryl: the WSR is a truly scenic line. Take a look at GreatWesternMGM on TH-cam, he knows all the best locations. Hope the weather is kind. Alan
BTW, Alan. The picture quality is very good too!!
Anyone with knowledge of steam and Parkstone Bank will tell you that sending a Black Five, unassisted, with eleven on, up there is barmy enough in dry weather, never mind in the wet, when the rails are slippery. It seems that we've preserved the locos but not the knowledge and experience of railwaymen, hence this farcical situation. Great video, though.
Hi Richard and thank you for the interesting points you make. As I replied to another commentor below, I am glad that I was not put in the position to take the decision to either dissapoint a train load of enthusiastic passengers or to "have a go!" without assistance. With hindsight etc etc....! Interesting to see that HST's were slipping to a stand in Cornwall under similar conditions! Thank you very much for the nice comment on the video. Regards, Alan
I don't think it's entirely fair to blame the crews or lack of knowledge. They have, on occasions, pulled off some remarkable efforts where the received wisdom said it wasn't possible. The crew in this case probably knew they were likely to fail the climb, but they also probably figured that by not trying they might've had an even longer delay. In the comments there's mention of modern machinery having the same problems in similar conditions - and I don't imagine all the crews and operators are morons now either.
*Could have just said "Leaf's on the Line" like most operators use as an excuse today !*
Not correct , Preserved Class 5,s have taken 11 up there in preserved days and working days . Circumtances of the day my friend
Fantastic video of a loco in trouble. i must say I take my hat off to the driver for even attempting the climb of Parkstone with Eleven coaches trailing. A valiant effort, well filmed.
Hi John and thank you for your kind and interesting comments, it was a rare event! Alan
44932 has done the same climb same load similar time of year . Different rail head conditions .
What a delight to watch this, me a lot later than the late train. The passengers all enjoyed more steam time for their money. Thank you for sharing a fabulous recording.
Hello Philip and thank you for the kind comments, and as all the passengers would have said: "better late than never"! Best regards, Alan
You are Brill!
Really enjoyed this video and may I say what good camera work. Too many clips use the 'manic pan and zoom' technique, but not here and it is all the better for it. Let the subject tell the story. Thank you for sharing this with us.
Sad the diesel had to rescue the train.. amazing videography, I loved the close ups.
Hi and thank you once more for such kind feedback, I really appreciate it. Best regards, Alan
Surely the mid train cloud of steam suggested that a steam line was broken, allowing the brakes on the rearmost carriages to lock on?
Hello Abraham and thank you for your comment/question. The steam pipes are only used for carriage heating, not braking. This is either by vacuum or air pressure depending on the capability of the locomotive and the braking requirements of the stock. Regards, Alan.
It was a big ask for that 5 to haul all those coaches up that incline with greasy rails, it's not that the engine isn't powerful enough it just couldn't get any grip no matter how the driver tried to handle the regulator, he did well to get it that far up the bank without assistance from the rear, this is probably why Network Rail insist on another engine as a back up its a sensible precaution to take. Black 5s are a good all rounder and very reliable but someone should have realised that incline was a bit much for that amount of coaches with slippery rails.
What a story! Beautifully filmed as always. Merry christmas and happy new year. I hope you keep posting these wonderfull videos. It gives us youtubers a chance to enjoy the great British steam trains. Greetings from Holland. Marc
Thank you Marc for your very kind message. Vrolijk Kerstfeest en Gelukkig Nieuwjaar. Alan
Very interesting video. A case of being at the right place at the right time, or were you expecting the drama to unfold just as it did!!! Anyway, well captured and edited.
Hi Keith and thank you for your kind comments and question. The curves (plus 1 in 60 gradient) before and after the station make these the two places where the loco is working hardest. Knowing that a class 33 had been provided for assistance, we were still expecting "hard working" but not the drama that occurred on the day. Regards, Alan
Fantastic clips. It's nice to see the facts rather than hear say. Merry Christmas to you
Hi Christopher: thank you for your kind remarks and glad to have cleared up any uncertainties. Regards, Alan
Hi Alan. Thanks for your kind advice; though on second thoughts I reckon the crew were half-expecting this to happen. How steep is the bank; 1 in 47 or greater? T
The steepest part of the line from King Cross to Peterborough, is Stoke bank. It is was where 'Mallard' attained her triumphant 126 mph steam-traction record! God, I would love to see her running. I did see her at NRM, York. October 2013.
A perfect day!
Hi Darryl and thank you for your question and reminiscences. The gradient is 1 in 60 but exacerbated by the curves, especially above the station. Alan
What an amazing account of this troubled trip,excellent coverage by you both,thanks for sharing and a very merry Christmas to you and I look forward to seeing many more of your productions in 2014.Best regards Chris.
Hi Chris and thank you for your kind comments and good wishes. Let's hope that the troubles of the past week do not have an adverse effect on mainline steam operations next year. Alan
Hi Alan.
Thanks for your advice. I had, in the meantime, done a little rooting around for myself, and yes yes, it was as I suspected! This things take up a lot of time.
Now I'm more the wiser!
Thanks.
Darryl
Thank you for answering my question. Really enjoy the video's thank you for them also.
This brings back many happy memories in SA.........
How it's done in the colonies on a long climb. Both 1620 and 1079 are in original livery. Coaches are a mixed lot. Gauge 3 feet 6 inches
English Electric 1620 & BB18 1-4 On the Toowoomba Range.
Hi everyone. I used to be a Secondman at Kings Cross, London, in the 70's. Seeing this video was very nice, thank you.
What I would like to know is how was it possible to film this event from so many angles by such professional filming teams! Good show, lads (and lasses!)
These weren't just any old video clips!!
Hi Darryl and thank you for your kind comments. There were only two cameras used; one by myself and one by my wife. As non-professionals we are glad that you were so impressed by the results of our efforts. Best regards, Alan
Oh, my God! If only James Watt could see this!
Really amazing in this video! Thanks for showing me this, my dear!
A billowing cloud of steam and a locomotive is a wonderful sight!
Congratulations to the video makers!
Lovely footage. Well caught footage of the delay too. Great stuff
Hi and thank you for you kind comments. Alan
Hi Alan.
I got so impatient with these upload-times that I decided to try my #2 pc; a W7 pro.
I just could not believe my eyes! I managed to upload a 12 minute video in about 2 hours!
I guess my #2 pc, gets the job!
The real test will be to see if I can repeat the success.
I remember the days when steam locos came to rescue diesels.
OMG!! What a coincidence!! I use a bag of rice, inside an old boot-sock, to steady my camera!!!! Great minds . . .
Excellent record of this unfortunate event. Good evidence of the conditions.
Hi Chris and thank you for your kind comments, you are right in describing things as an "unfortunate event" and we all hope that it does not have detrimental repercussions in the future. Alan
I loved the drama on Parkstone bank and the night photography was fantastic. Thank for posting this very enjoyable video. I bet it was very expensive to call up the Crompton!
Hi Norman and thank you very much for your kind comments for which I am most grateful. You will see from the description that the Compton was already part of this train but the driver did not turn up on the day for some reason. Best regards, Alan
Superb video.
Brilliant Alan, right place right time to get something like that on film . Not sure about the American type whistle on 44871 though . Regards Steve
Hi Stephen and thank you for your kind and interesting comments. I was not aware that this loco was fitted with a "different" whistle. I always felt that the Stanier "Hooter" was a little ineffective and it might be that this one needs a bit of "setting up" as it does seem to have gone slightly "American"! Best wishes, Alan
Steamclips I heard it was the whistle formerly on 76079, which originally came off a Union Pacific Big Boy.
Now wouldn't you like to see one of them up Parkstone Bank.
Hey Andrei: I've learnt something today! that is very interesting. I should be in Denver next year so will call at the museum because they have a Big Boy on show.
Steamclips
UP are restoring 4014 to main-line running, but I don't think it will be ready by next year. More like 3 years I think.
Love the wheel slip.
Never noticed this vid before...... What was the reason it struggled? Just bad conditions or to heavy etc?
Hi and thank you for your question. It was entirely down to track conditions. Regards, Alan
What is the huge emission of steam after the 33 starts banking?
Hi and thank you for your question. As the locomotive had been stationary for some time the cylinders would have collected a large amount of water from condensed steam. This has to be removed before setting off by opening the 2 cylinder drain cocks located front and back at the bottom of each cylinder. Being effectively a hydraulic fluid, water can cause catastrophic damage to the cylinders and motion if allowed to remain when the locomotive starts to move and is why you often see huge clouds of steam produced before a locomotive leaves a station. Water condensation was a big problem for Stanier designed locos and crews often left a drain cock slightly open to stop water collecting in a particularly troublesome cylinder as from 3:00 here th-cam.com/video/Bgd25OCp8j4/w-d-xo.html Regards, Alan
@@Steamclips opening the cylinder cocks a little also helps prevent slipping by reducing the amount of torque delivered to the wheels. A superb piece of loco control, given the humidity in the air.
BLACK 5 (having stalled on the bank): Phew! Talk about a coach too many.
BLACK 5's Driver: Whose idea was this?
BLACK 5 & FIREMAN: Yours.
CLASS 33 DIESEL (coming up from behind): No fear. I'll help you.
The diesel gets coupled up at the back of the 11-coach train. Black 5 is grateful for a shove up the tender. The train moves forwards more steadily. Relief.
BLACK 5: Thanks, mate. I don't know what I'd do without you.
CLASS 33 DIESEL: That's what friends are for.
Night-time station stop. Black 5 quenches his thirst, and then goes on and away into the drizzling darkness with Class 33 Diesel still banking in the rear. To think of all the dramatic effects that cause delays.
Found a Thomas fan :)
Thanks for explaining (and showing) me why I waited for an hour in a muddy field before I had to go back to work empty handed.
Did anyone check the handbrakes in the carriages? Nice footage.
Hi Colin and thank you for your kind, amusing and much appreciated feedback. Best regards, Alan
I've been told a black5 would take the 'Pines' up Parkestone bank with eleven, by a former SR steam driver. I thought the limit was less than this even for a class seven or eight without assistance. Anyway the big difference is all those birch trees that have grown up in the last 40 years, leaves on the line lubricate as well as any oil, so without a rip roaring start from Poole any loco would have struggled. I think they had used all the sand by the time they stalled, sanders were clearly going full blast all the way.
Hi and thank you for your interesting comments. Everything you say is true and all exacerbated by the most humid of conditions on the day, so without the planned assistance, there was absolutely no chance of success. Alan
Very well summerised there Nick . Even in preserved times Black 5 44932 has taken the same load up there same time of year . Different rail head conditions I guess . It did,nt occur to me to consider the tree and foilage growth when comparing events fron S/D days . Good point .
Nicely edited. Many thanks for sharing. ;-)
Hi and thank you for your kind comment, it is much appreciated. Thanks also for your subscription, welcome aboard! Best regards, Alan
Brilliant Video, well done
Thank you David, your kind feedback is very much appreciated. Best regards, Alan
Absolutely fantastic, you definitely cannot beat the sound of a steam locomotive working hard.
Wicked shots my friend, lucky bloke getting on the cab, how'd you do it hey ! :P, Im heading on the winter Cumbrian this sat, (15th of feb ) behind scots guardsmen, i might see f i can get a sneaky shot or two from the cab XD
Hi and thank you for the kind and interesting comments. I must say, I envy your trip on Saturday and hope that the weather is good. Alan
It's painful to watch a steam engine struggle like that but great footage
Many thanks. Alan
Coal is enough,,but was sure she may fill with water,,,looses a lot in the gradient.
And you`ll never guess what happened Friday just gone causing severe delays ? The Wool- Neasden loaded sand slipped to stand! AGAIN! In exactly the same place! This about the third or fourth time! I disgree with the people on here defending Network Rail.They could do more! Like TRIM THE TREES BACK!!!
Fascinating comments there Sam and I heartily agree with your tree-trimming recommendations! Alan
Nice video but can anybody identify carriages 5 and 6? They don't look like standard BR stock, possibly SNCF or DB? I may be wrong but they look out of place.
Hi and thank you for your kind comment and question. I think that the coaching stock was the WCxx set as follows:
BR Mk 1/2a sets
BR Maroon livery
(Dual air/vacuum brakes)
TSO: 3766, 4912/31/51/54/58 TSO: 5035
FO: 3128
SK: 25756, 25806/08
RMB: 1860/82
BCK: 21256
BSK: 35459
Best regards, Alan
Nice closing shot.
Hi and thank you for the kind comment. Alan
5:40 Da nimmt man ein Tempotaschentuch und die Gleise sind in Ordnung und die Fehrt geht weider, oder ?
5:40 Since you take a handkerchief and the tracks are fine and the Fehrt goes back, right?
Hello Franz and thank you for your question. After an incident such as this, there is usually an enquiry by the National Rail Operator (Network Rail) to find the reason for the problem so that it can be avoided in the future. The train crew took a sample of surface contamination on the rails for use as evidence. However, the main cause of the problem was the lack of the planned diesel assistance due to an absent driver. I hope this answers your question. Regards, Alan
I can't imagine the huge steam heat leak between coaches 2 and 3 was helping any.
Hi and thank you for your comment. There are two things to bear in mind to relieve your concern: firstly, the high humidity on the day made steam highly visible, giving the impression of huge amounts of steam being released; secondly, steam used for carriage heating is effectively waste steam under very low pressure and does not in any way effect locomotive power. Regards, Alan
That is an interesting point. A significant amount of energy used on the railways goes in running H&V systems, which with steam heating was supplied by waste heat at, effectively, zero cost.
@@Steamclips Also steam heat if I'm not wrong normally operates about 20psi so would make no difference to a loco operating at 225psi for example
the great problem of a steam loco is that the force applies in an alternate mode,,not cotinuous as an electric diesel locomotive,,,this is an adversal condition,,this cause the slipping..the second condition is how many tons is the weight of the steam locomotive. if she dont have a good weight,the adherence coefficient may be insuficient for push the train. the traction force may be less than the product adherence coefficientX weight locomotive.
Steamclips,very nice camera capture.
Hi and thank you, I appreciate your kind and interesting comments. Best regards, Alan
Ok,,happy new year 2018 daniel.. argentine
Eleven is a fair old whack for this loco on a bank in greasy conditions. Better to have left a couple of coaches behind.
Hi and thank you for your interesting and original comment. You are right about a reduced load but not sure if the punters on the last two coaches would have been happy to be left behind! It was a tough decision on the day and I am glad that I didn't have to make that call. Best regards, Alan
In the old days, steam locos didn't actually get stuck very often. I saw plenty slip, but never saw one stuck. I think this must have boiled down to local knowledge and the great familiarity that crews at the time would have had - perhaps a harder commodity to acquire today in fairness. You are right, on the day - it'd have seemed hard on any punters left behind. That said, in aviation, pilots make these kinds of judgement-calls about weight etc every single time they fly.
Great video though....!
Fair points, and I guess that vegetation (that would have been cleared in steam days) overhanging the track, played a major role. Alan
Hi Alan.
Something is puzzling me about this scenario; did the loco' not have 'sanders' at the front of theunit? A
All of our diesels at Kings Cross loco, had 'sanders', fore-and-aft. It was my job as 'Second-man' to check there was ample sand in the sandboxes!
'Sanders' at the front end, allows the driver to drop a tiny amount of sand on the rails in front of the front (driving) wheels on both sides. This tactic has the effect of increasing traction and so avoiding slipping! Hmmm. ..
If 'Parkstone Bank' is so notorious, why on earth have they allowed this occur! Someone has slipped up! (Deliberate pun!)
Allowing the wheels to slip so dramatically, only wears out the tyres on the driving wheels!
This is a very expensive omission! Perhaps I should approach someone regarding this matter; a letter perhaps, to the inspectorate? We shall see. In the meantime, I am watching the video (yet again!). I can't get enough of it!
Working on the railways ruined my enjoyment of trains' etc. You had no time to 'enjoy' it. You had a job to do and the safety of the passengers and all around you, was paramount. The video is magic. Thank you.
Best wishes . . .
Hi Darryl: you make some interesting points and ask good questions and I guess that the best person to answer them is Ian Riley who was the guy doing the rail condition check in the video. As far as I understand, steam sanders as fitted to the loco in question are quite effective at overcoming normal (but in reality relatively small!) losses of traction due to slippery conditions. What they were faced with here was extremely slippery conditions right from the "off" at Poole, where they were faced with adhesion loss even on the flat. They would have needed a tender-full of sand to cope with that. But as before; others may have more accurate information than this. Alan
A damn great video there and very well edited.
I have to say I have to fault West Coast entirely for the decision to leave the 33 in the yard at Poole. They obviously have not learnt from Tangmere's problem the previous year, Where it too stalled on the bank in the same type of conditions. Yet the weekend previous to this tour Tangmere was banked by 47580 so Why not the Black 5?
Back in the steam days Heavy trains were always banked up the bank by bankers. So what will it take for West Coast to see sense in future. Once again really enjoyed the video and I have subbed as well.
Hi and thank you for your kind and interesting comments. To be fair to the operators of this tour, the plan was to have class 33 diesel assistance up the bank, the problem was that the driver did not turn up for some reason. This meant that either the tour was delayed (or even cancelled) with everyone already boarded, or they "give it a go". Of course, the responsibility is still down to West Coast for not providing the driver but it did result in a spectacular bit of action, which I was fortunate to capture and, I guess, could be used in any enquiry. Thank you also for your subscription; Welcome aboard! Alan
Why doesn't West coast rail run even bigger trains. They seem to love overloading of these trains. Don't they look at the load tables for different locomotives types. What about using a 2MT as a pilot engine Infront of the train engine. Maybe a Jubilee type of locomotive might have been more useful than a 5MT. Very atmospheric conditions and nicely filmed also.
Hello Colin and thank you for your kind and perfectly reasonable comments. What you suggest makes sense but to be fair to the operator, the tour was planned to have diesel assistance. It was the unfortunate circumstances (although fortunate for me!) of no driver for the diesel and the decision to go ahead whilst unaware of the extremely slippery conditions on the climb which led to the events captured here. Best regards, Alan
awesome video
Hi and thank you for the kind comment. Alan
I don't know why you can't reply to the comment below that says "shows that even with best crews/intentions etc.Steam is not up to todays Train standards.", but that's hardly fair, since that loco was never designed to take that kind of load up that kind of incline unassisted. Anyway, that was the right place at the right time, wasn't it.
Hi Andrei: if it is a linked comment to Google+ I think that you have to sign in to Google+ before you can comment, that might be the explanation. Your remarks are quite correct and one must put this down to an organisational failure rather than to motive power. Thank you for your valued comments, sometimes you get lucky when filming! Alan
Hi Alan. I wondered if you could offer me some advice on uploading videoes onto You-Tube? I have done a little research and I found a compression program called: SQUARED 5". I found a tutorial (by some American kid), but the sound quality was aweful! OMG!! You could hardly hear a word he was saying, and on top of that, he slurred his words and talked like he was on something!
!With no tutorial I was a bit lost!! So I have a look in Windows Move Maker. I took a file which I had already uploaded to You Tube. Which was a 15 minute clip and it took 5 hours to upload! I found this button labeled 'Compress' So I clicked it. Lol!! The time it took to compress was the same time it took to upload; uncompressed!
T'is all very very 'technical' and nerdy!
Is this what we can expect; even though most of us have a pretty powerful internet connection?
Hi Darryl: I convert my HD mpeg files to .mkv which you can do if you download DivX player which comes with a converter. This compresses the files without too much loss of quality and will reduce your upload times significantly. However, unless you have fibre broadband, you can still expect upload times for 15mins of HD to be hours, I usually upload big files overnight! Alan
I doubt if even the more powerful 'Tangmere' would have made that climb without a struggle, with those railhead conditions. The shot with the Crompton pushing at the rear, takes me back to those happy days of yore when almost all 'up' trains through Parkstone had one on the back, albeit a 33/1.
Hi and thank you for your interesting comments. I have to agree with your doubts about an unassisted Tangmere on the bank and liked the reminiscences about past operations. Regards, Alan
I doubt it as well mekydro, Bullied pacifics arent exactly well-known for sure footedness!
Only in britian do steam trains have trouble up hills
Never heard of britian. Where's that?
Why is there a diesel engine on the back ?
Hello Keith and thank you for your question. I actually explain everything in the description so I guess you haven't read that yet? Basically the load was greater than that allowed for a single class 5 locomotive, so a diesel needed to be attached. Kind regards, Alan
Are the sand boxes no longer used?
Hi Chris: sandboxes are still used but the sand had been completely expended by the time we first see the loco in the clip, it was even slipping on the flat down at Poole apparently! Alan
+Steamclips Thanks again Alan. Kind regards chris.
B.R. Buckeye Man gg
rare footage. well capturea.
Hello again and thank your for your kind and very much appreciated feedback . Best regards, Alan
Hmmm. . Detonators!! Now the thought of them brings back many memories of permanent-way safety procedures!! OMG!! BANG!! BANG!! BANG!! So much to remember!!
I was only a young lad in those days. It was so exciting to drive my 1st express train!!
The 11:08 from Kings Cross to Leeds. 1st stop Peterbough!!
Ouch!!
A class 47 (2750 h.p.) 100 mph loco, pulling 11 cars! Just to hear the guard's whistle was exciting!!
Gently out of the station, into Gasworks tunnel; then when we were half way in, my mate, Derek says; "Give her the gun, lad!!" We'd come; blasting out of the tunnel and roared up the bank to Finsbury Park where the road leveled out!!
We'd be doing 70 mph through Alexander Palace!! Fantastic!! I was 19.
Hm! Over loaded for that line, and no sanding in sand boxes.
I felt sorry for the driver, the regulator handle is so stiff, hell of a job to fine tune the start when you know there's going to be slipping.
I thought he did a pretty good job in the conditions. The re-start from Salisbury right near the end is beautifully judged, and he does a creditable job in controlling the slip on the bank too.
Steam might just end... I DONT WANT IT TO END.
Great video - thanks for posting. Shame there's a bit too much of the over-excited kettle and not enough of the proper locomotive here - the class 33 (mwah-ha-ha!)
Hello Mark and thank you for your kind and amusing comment. Best regards, Alan
Not much excitment about the oil box that did it have to be said gor the train going again
Good footage, I noticed that one of the staff almost trips over when he goes to inspect the track.
Hi Owen and many thanks for the kind comment and for your keen observation of how tricky walking on loose ballast can be! Alan
Engine and carriages so beautifully maintained too!
Hi and thank you for your much appreciated comments. Alan
ปู่ลากไม่ไหวแล้ว หลายเอ๋ย. รุนท้ายปู่ด้วย.
Surely it's self-evident. Asking a a Black Five to cope with 11 (presumably well-loaded) coaches on the level never mind on that gradient is asking far too much. I'm surprised that Network Rail allowed it.
I recall coming up to Ais Gill behind a Jubilee with 13 on. Mind you it was a dry sunny day with scattered cloud.
Your talking rubbish , 11 no problem in normal circumtances for a Black 5 even on big climbs . Rail head conditions of the day caused the problem .
Hi Alan. Here is mainstream media report on the impending HS2 (London Euston to Birmingham and beyond) development.
The environmental implications are clear; mile and miles of beautiful and peaceful English countryside will be ruined forever!
Take a look and see.
HS2 Is it worth it?
I did wonder about the greasiness of the rails and overhanging vegetation wouldn't help. 5's were usually pretty steady on their feet. Even 7F's could slip on greasy/slippery days. The person to comment would be Peter Smith who lived that way and both fired and drove 5's up that bank.
Hero class 33 saves the day.
lack of grip equals too much load
Do English locos have sanders?
Hello John and thank you for your question. English loco's do have sanders, most, including Black 5's, have steam sanders i.e. the sand is directed from the end of the sandpipe by a jet of steam to the area directly between the wheel and rail. Unfortunately the extreme conditions right from 'the off' on this occassion I assume either defeated or consumed all the sand by the time of the final slip. Alan
*What's all this about a **_'Rice Bag'_** ? In case you got hungry, got a curry tucked away had you !*
Am I correct in thinking the tracks had a 3rd electric rail on the first part? If so, that must have added to complications. How the driver of the steam train could see where he was going when it started off again with assistance of the diesel loco, I don't know and it would have been tricky for another train coming in the other direction seeing instant fog.
Hi and thank you for your question and comments. The track is 3rd rail electrified as you think. Luckily the dangerous rails are kept to the inside allowing safe access from the lineside. I am sure that you are right about the effects of the steam! Alan
Steamclips As with standard practice when ever theres a stalled train on Parkstone Bank they throw a temporary Possession around it. SO everything that is oncoming and before Bournemouth train station will be held. Anything that is in the possession (between Bournemouth and Poole) will be allowed to continue onto Poole. Then Nothing is allowed to enter apart from a rescue loco.
The Parkstone Bank Stall of shame a list of trains that have stalled on the bank in recent years due to Poor railhead conditions.
04/01/06 66230 6W60 (This is the one that led to DBS using 60's when rail head conditions were poor)
25/11/09 66602 6M42 Rescued by 66516
17/03/10 66624 6M42 (Flange lubricator failure at Parkstone)
17/12/12 34067 1Z92 Rescued & banked by 47786
28/11/13 44871 1Z87 Rescued & banked by 33029
23/12/13 66507 6M42 Banked by 66572
Excelent, was hoping someone had captured the event.
Thank you for the nice comment, having never filmed at Parkstone before I guess I was just lucky. Alan
Great and interesting video
Many thanks John, your nice comment is very much appreciated. regards, Alan
The sand box did tend to suffer from damp sand due to the steam pipe blowing the sand. When prepping a engine [ London Midland ] it was unusual to find one not clogged. A long piece of wire sometimes did the trick
Hi Dave and thank you for your interesting comments, sounds like you have "insider" knowledge! Regards, Alan
Fascinating account, superby shot.
As others have said, I doubt Tangmere would have done better, and to my mind, the Stanier 4-6-0, not having the trailing axle probably had the edge in those conditions. It wasn't the lack of power which caused the problem, it was lack of adhesion, for which Bullied's pacifics were notorious.
Hi and thank you for your kind and perceptive comments, which I have to say summarises the situation perfectly. Regards, Alan
Hätten es nicht weniger Waggons sein können?? Ich höre mir das nicht gern an!!
Sie beschreiben, was wir im Nachhinein 20/20 Vision nennen! Regards, Alan
Well, I have to say what a great production and how nice to have a wife that can help out (I am lucky like that as well) what camera are you using? Loved this really nice. Couple of points, if anyone ever needs a crompton driving give me a shout I am sure I still could ;) I so miss proper driving. Odd to see the dets being picked up, usually only do that if recalled. Did not hear any crows either ;) Great stuff glad I subscribed.
Hi and thanks once again for your kind comments and intriguing remarks which leads me to assume you have "insider knowledge" as a past railwayman. Always nice to get feedback and information from you guys. I use a Canon XHA1s as the characteristics, manual controls and quality are identical to the Canon equipment I used for many (many!) years as a stills photographer. Alan
Steamclips Ah - the same camera as myself. My only problem with it is I find the zoom control a little over sensitive - a combination of the slight delay and over enthusiastic fingers....
I agree with you entirely, especially when if you use a Canon remote control where the "variable" zoom setting is even more sensitive than the camera control!. Many thanks for your comment. Alan