The first 50 lines of Homer's Iliad, read in ancient Greek ("μῆνιν ἄειδε θεά")
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ย. 2022
- In the translation for this video, I have tried to respect the word-order of the original as far as the English language will reasonably bear. This method, I hope, may both preserve something of the emphasis of the original, and make the English subtitles more easy to correlate with the spoken Greek.
The Greek text used is Monro and Allen 1920 (the Perseus text). I freely release the English translation under CC-BY-4.0 (attribution only).
Errata: The subtitles read "protector of Chryses" instead of "Chryse." (Chryses was the priest of the island Chryse.) They also read "τὸ δέ μοι κρήηνον ἐέλδωρ" instead of "τόδε."
Transcript:
The rage sing, goddess! of Achilles son of Peleus, the all-destroying rage; that countless griefs to the Achaeans brought, and many brave souls down to Hades hurled,-souls of heroes. It made them prey to dogs and all manner of birds; but the will of Zeus was being fulfilled. Sing from the time when those two stood at variance from their strife: I mean the son of Atreus, king of men, and godlike Achilles.
Which of the gods, then, sent them to fight each other in their strife? The son of Leto and Zeus. For that god, at the king enraged, a sickness raised among the army of a terrible kind, and destruction lay upon the people: because the king showed Chryses dishonour, though he was a priest! Yes, the king did this, the son of Atreus. For Chryses came to the swift ships of the Achaeans, intending to free his daughter, and taking with him countless gifts of ransom; and garlands he had in his hands of far-darting Apollo, wreathed around a golden sceptre. And he made his entreaties to all the Achaeans; but especially to the two sons of Atreus, the directors of the people.
“Sons of Atreus, and you other well-greaved Greeks! I wish first, that the gods, whose halls are in Olympus, may grant you this: the destruction of Priam’s city, and a safe return to your homes. But as for me, please, release my daughter to me, for I dearly love her, and accept my ransoms: if you do this, you will honour with a holy fear the son of Zeus, far-darting Apollo.”
At this, the other Greeks all shouted their applause; meaning to revere the priest, and accept his glorious ransoms. But as for the son of Atreus, Agamemnon, it was not pleasing to his heart; but abusively he dismissed the man, and a harsh command he gave.
“I warn you, old man! Do not let me find you by the hollow ships; whether you overstay now, or come again at a later time. Otherwise, I fear that the sceptre and garland of the god will not protect you. I will not free her. No, not before old age has overtaken her; at my house in Argos, far from her native country, when she is going to her loom, and paying visits to my bed. But go, do not provoke me, and you will leave the more safely for it.”
Thus he spoke; and the old man was filled with fear, and obeyed his command. He went silently by the shore of the harshly-sounding sea. But once he had gone far away, intensely did that old man pray to king Apollo, whom lovely-haired Leto bore.
“Hear me, god of the silver bow! protector of Chryse and divine Cilla, and mighty ruler over Tenedos! Smintheus! If ever I have built for you the roof of a lovely temple; or if, indeed, I have ever burned for you the fat thighs of bulls and goats, fulfil for me this wish: let the Danaans pay for my tears with your arrows.”
Thus he spoke in prayer; and Apollo heard him. He came down from the peaks of Olympus, enraged in his heart; and he had on his shoulders a bow, and a quiver that was covered round about. The arrows on his shoulders clanged in his rage as he moved; and he moved like the night. He then sat far apart from the ships-and let an arrow fly. A terrible clang came from the silver bow. At first he attacked the mules and swift hounds; but next at the men themselves with a bitter dart he shot; and constantly were the fires of the dead burning thick.
DON’T STOP !! I am now on a cliff hanger 🤣 i closed my eyes and imagined i was listening to a story teller around a greek campfire over 2000 years ago. The people would have been mesmerized. Thank you for bringing this to life 👏🏻
Make that 2700 years ago...
@@georgesj.5995 i did say ‘Over’ 😆 i may have to listen to it again now!
I can now see why the Greeks took three days to tell a poem
This recitation of Homer would truly have entertained and captured the listener's imagination. To hear it in the ancient Greek is icing on the cake. Thank you, Thomas.
I understand people might be paying attention to the pronounciation but this is probably as close as we can get to the times when this kind of storytelling was one of the main foms of entertainment. Listening to this at times it felt like i could also relate to those ancient greeks listening to this while sitting in their towns or villages at evenings. Sometimes it is the small details that make the history come alive to us.
As an Ancient Greek enthusiast, this pronunciation is superb. If I was forced to say one thing though: it would be that to recite the entire 15,693 lines of the Iliad at this pace, it would take approximately 57 hours.
Thank you for your kind words. I read this text at a slow pace even by my own standards, first because I intended it to be a teaching-tool for learning ancient Greek, secondly because it is a very short excerpt, and I wanted to give extraordinary attention to every part; for the same reason, I generally read a sonnet or an epigram much more slowly than a narrative poem. When I read a longer section of the Iliad, it will, I hope, be about 25% faster (still relatively slow by the standards of many people, but in accordance with my own preferred usual speed).
I was intrigued to consider how long a performance of the Iliad might take under ordinary circumstances. An article on "thehistorianshut" cites Peter Jones as saying that "the average bard would need around thirty hours to completely sing The Iliad" at a minimum, which sounds reasonable to me. Some extremely rough maths: an entire performance of Hamlet ("4,167 lines" -- Folger Shakespeare Library) is sometimes said to require about six hours to perform. (“A full version of Hamlet would run for six hours on a good day” - The Observer.) Alexander Pope, who, like Shakespeare, writes in iambic pentameter, requires 72 lines to translate the first 52 lines of the Iliad, so let us allow 4,167 iambic pentameter lines to be worth roughly 3,000 dactylic hexameter lines in terms of pace. 15,000 total Iliad lines of dactylic hexameter / 3000 = 5; 5 x 6 hours yields a pace of at least thirty hours to perform the entire poem.
Thank you Thomas for this brilliant rendition. It is a joy to hear you taking the time to do it so well.
Excellent, thank you. I have a master's degree in ancient Greek and Latin, and I really appreciated you hearing the first 50 verses of this immortal epic! Wonderful delivery! Please do more of these!
Good for you!!!!
Fascinating; I know nothing of ancient Greek, but the emotion is palpable!
such an amazing read! if only we had you read us the Iliad in highschool in Greece instead of our boring teachers, the lesson would surely have been a lot more fun!
This is the slowest recitation of the Iliad I've ever seen. Not standard practice, but I love it.
This is just so awesome! And it brings home that the Iliad was meant to be declaimed, not read.
As most ancient stories they where likely just told stories long before being written down
Found the new sound I will fall asleep to as I dream of Greece. Well done sir 👏🏼
I've no idea what I'm listening to, I dont want to read the subtitles because the delivery is so beautiful!!!
Absolutely amazing! Helps strengthen my resolve to relearn Greek so I can read this in the original.
This video never gets old I find myself rewatching it at least weekly and try and model my pronunciation to this whenever I read Homeric Greek. Epic job! ❤
Bravo orator
I bow to your great effort 🇬🇷
Μπράβο !!!
Omg... I NEED MORE OF THIS! I'M INVESTED!
Bravo! You're reciting this classic poem much better than a certain ex-British PM 😊
...more than "noticeably" better! KR, Lemonhunter B. Fleck / Vienna
That was just Boris's University party piece to impress the ladies and affect intellectual superiority. Mary Beard wiped the floor with him in debate. Podex est.
Dang. I would 100% listen to the whole thing if you did that.
I got home and my husband had put this playing for our 3-month-old. He was very happy about the whole ordeal :D
Bravo, bravissimo.
"I was truly captivated by the recitation of the first 50 lines of Homer's Iliad in ancient Greek. Growing up in a Greek household, I had only been exposed to ancient Greek through the Church, so hearing it in this context was a unique experience. Interestingly, I noticed some similarities to Japanese and Latin or Italian as I followed along with subtitles. The linguistic skill and knowledge displayed in the video are impressive. It has sparked my curiosity, and I feel like I might dive into the world of ancient Greek. If you have any insights or recommendations regarding this or any other topic, I'd love to hear them."
Thank you so much! would you please keep on? 50 lines each time seems a good fit.
Absolutely beautiful! Wonderful pronunciation and performance. My highest compliments, sir
I always wanted to hear this verses in their original form. I asked some Greeks, they didn't knew them Thank You!
But I think , that in the times of Homer, the "Ilias" was in a form of a song.
Fantastic👋👌👍
Very beautiful! Thank you for uploading!
Superb
Excellent, so enjoyable and clear
Exquisite! Goddess I wish for more!!!
MORE!!!
I am absolutely mesmerized by your voice and bravado. This is so beautiful, you've transported me across time & space with this ❤️
Ευγε!!!
you know you have to finish this right? Also some greek poetry like Esiod, Alceus, Sappho ar Archilochos would be great! (sorry I don't know how to write their name in english)
Mesmerising and inspiring. Your voice is charismatic, the whole experience has made me shiver. More please!
I would buy a full length performance.
I'm trying to learn the Iliad in the original and your recitation is invaluable. It brings it alive and I'm going to try to memorize these lines from your video. Thank you! Could you do more of Book 1?
The rage sing, goddess! of Achilles son of Peleus, the all-destroying rage; that countless griefs to the Achaeans brought, and many brave souls down to Hades hurled,-souls of heroes. It made them prey to dogs and all manner of birds; but the will of Zeus was being fulfilled. Sing from the time when those two stood at variance from their strife: I mean the son of Atreus, king of men, and godlike Achilles.
Which of the gods, then, sent them to fight each other in their strife? The son of Leto and Zeus. For that god, at the king enraged, a sickness raised among the army of a terrible kind, and destruction lay upon the people: because the king showed Chryses dishonour, though he was a priest! Yes, the king did this, the son of Atreus. For Chryses came to the swift ships of the Achaeans, intending to free his daughter, and taking with him countless gifts of ransom; and garlands he had in his hands of far-darting Apollo, wreathed around a golden sceptre. And he made his entreaties to all the Achaeans; but especially to the two sons of Atreus, the directors of the people.
“Sons of Atreus, and you other well-greaved Greeks! I wish first, that the gods, whose halls are in Olympus, may grant you this: the destruction of Priam’s city, and a safe return to your homes. But as for me, please, release my daughter to me, for I dearly love her, and accept my ransoms: if you do this, you will honour with a holy fear the son of Zeus, far-darting Apollo.”
At this, the other Greeks all shouted their applause; meaning to revere the priest, and accept his glorious ransoms. But as for the son of Atreus, Agamemnon, it was not pleasing to his heart; but abusively he dismissed the man, and a harsh command he gave.
“I warn you, old man! Do not let me find you by the hollow ships; whether you overstay now, or come again at a later time. Otherwise, I fear that the sceptre and garland of the god will not protect you. I will not free her. No, not before old age has overtaken her; at my house in Argos, far from her native country, when she is going to her loom, and paying visits to my bed. But go, do not provoke me, and you will leave the more safely for it.”
Thus he spoke; and the old man was filled with fear, and obeyed his command. He went silently by the shore of the harshly-sounding sea. But once he had gone far away, intensely did that old man pray to king Apollo, whom lovely-haired Leto bore.
“Hear me, god of the silver bow! protector of Chryse and divine Cilla, and mighty ruler over Tenedos! Smintheus! If ever I have built for you the roof of a lovely temple; or if, indeed, I have ever burned for you the fat thighs of bulls and goats, fulfil for me this wish: let the Danaans pay for my tears with your arrows.”
Thus he spoke in prayer; and Apollo heard him. He came down from the peaks of Olympus, enraged in his heart; and he had on his shoulders a bow, and a quiver that was covered round about. The arrows on his shoulders clanged in his rage as he moved; and he moved like the night. He then sat far apart from the ships-and let an arrow fly. A terrible clang came from the silver bow. At first he attacked the mules and swift hounds; but next at the men themselves with a bitter dart he shot; and constantly were the fires of the dead burning thick.
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος
οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,
πολλὰς δ᾽ ἰφθίμους ψυχὰς Ἄϊδι προΐαψεν
ἡρώων, αὐτοὺς δὲ ἑλώρια τεῦχε κύνεσσιν
οἰωνοῖσί τε πᾶσι, Διὸς δ᾽ ἐτελείετο βουλή,
ἐξ οὗ δὴ τὰ πρῶτα διαστήτην ἐρίσαντε
Ἀτρεΐδης τε ἄναξ ἀνδρῶν καὶ δῖος Ἀχιλλεύς.
τίς τ᾽ ἄρ σφωε θεῶν ἔριδι ξυνέηκε μάχεσθαι;
Λητοῦς καὶ Διὸς υἱός: ὃ γὰρ βασιλῆϊ χολωθεὶς
νοῦσον ἀνὰ στρατὸν ὄρσε κακήν, ὀλέκοντο δὲ λαοί,
οὕνεκα τὸν Χρύσην ἠτίμασεν ἀρητῆρα
Ἀτρεΐδης: ὃ γὰρ ἦλθε θοὰς ἐπὶ νῆας Ἀχαιῶν
λυσόμενός τε θύγατρα φέρων τ᾽ ἀπερείσι᾽ ἄποινα,
στέμματ᾽ ἔχων ἐν χερσὶν ἑκηβόλου Ἀπόλλωνος
χρυσέῳ ἀνὰ σκήπτρῳ, καὶ λίσσετο πάντας Ἀχαιούς,
Ἀτρεΐδα δὲ μάλιστα δύω, κοσμήτορε λαῶν:
Ἀτρεΐδαι τε καὶ ἄλλοι ἐϋκνήμιδες Ἀχαιοί,
ὑμῖν μὲν θεοὶ δοῖεν Ὀλύμπια δώματ᾽ ἔχοντες
ἐκπέρσαι Πριάμοιο πόλιν, εὖ δ᾽ οἴκαδ᾽ ἱκέσθαι:
παῖδα δ᾽ ἐμοὶ λύσαιτε φίλην, τὰ δ᾽ ἄποινα δέχεσθαι,
ἁζόμενοι Διὸς υἱὸν ἑκηβόλον Ἀπόλλωνα.
ἔνθ᾽ ἄλλοι μὲν πάντες ἐπευφήμησαν Ἀχαιοὶ
αἰδεῖσθαί θ᾽ ἱερῆα καὶ ἀγλαὰ δέχθαι ἄποινα:
ἀλλ᾽ οὐκ Ἀτρεΐδῃ Ἀγαμέμνονι ἥνδανε θυμῷ,
ἀλλὰ κακῶς ἀφίει, κρατερὸν δ᾽ ἐπὶ μῦθον ἔτελλε:
μή σε γέρον κοίλῃσιν ἐγὼ παρὰ νηυσὶ κιχείω
ἢ νῦν δηθύνοντ᾽ ἢ ὕστερον αὖτις ἰόντα,
μή νύ τοι οὐ χραίσμῃ σκῆπτρον καὶ στέμμα θεοῖο:
τὴν δ᾽ ἐγὼ οὐ λύσω: πρίν μιν καὶ γῆρας ἔπεισιν
ἡμετέρῳ ἐνὶ οἴκῳ ἐν Ἄργεϊ τηλόθι πάτρης
ἱστὸν ἐποιχομένην καὶ ἐμὸν λέχος ἀντιόωσαν:
ἀλλ᾽ ἴθι μή μ᾽ ἐρέθιζε σαώτερος ὥς κε νέηαι.
ὣς ἔφατ᾽, ἔδεισεν δ᾽ ὃ γέρων καὶ ἐπείθετο μύθῳ:
βῆ δ᾽ ἀκέων παρὰ θῖνα πολυφλοίσβοιο θαλάσσης:
πολλὰ δ᾽ ἔπειτ᾽ ἀπάνευθε κιὼν ἠρᾶθ᾽ ὃ γεραιὸς
Ἀπόλλωνι ἄνακτι, τὸν ἠΰκομος τέκε Λητώ:
κλῦθί μευ ἀργυρότοξ᾽, ὃς Χρύσην ἀμφιβέβηκας
Κίλλάν τε ζαθέην Τενέδοιό τε ἶφι ἀνάσσεις,
Σμινθεῦ εἴ ποτέ τοι χαρίεντ᾽ ἐπὶ νηὸν ἔρεψα,
ἢ εἰ δή ποτέ τοι κατὰ πίονα μηρί᾽ ἔκηα
ταύρων ἠδ᾽ αἰγῶν, τόδε μοι κρήηνον ἐέλδωρ:
τίσειαν Δαναοὶ ἐμὰ δάκρυα σοῖσι βέλεσσιν.
ὣς ἔφατ᾽ εὐχόμενος, τοῦ δ᾽ ἔκλυε Φοῖβος Ἀπόλλων,
βῆ δὲ κατ᾽ Οὐλύμποιο καρήνων χωόμενος κῆρ,
τόξ᾽ ὤμοισιν ἔχων ἀμφηρεφέα τε φαρέτρην:
ἔκλαγξαν δ᾽ ἄρ᾽ ὀϊστοὶ ἐπ᾽ ὤμων χωομένοιο,
αὐτοῦ κινηθέντος: ὃ δ᾽ ἤϊε νυκτὶ ἐοικώς.
ἕζετ᾽ ἔπειτ᾽ ἀπάνευθε νεῶν, μετὰ δ᾽ ἰὸν ἕηκε:
δεινὴ δὲ κλαγγὴ γένετ᾽ ἀργυρέοιο βιοῖο:
οὐρῆας μὲν πρῶτον ἐπῴχετο καὶ κύνας ἀργούς,
αὐτὰρ ἔπειτ᾽ αὐτοῖσι βέλος ἐχεπευκὲς ἐφιεὶς
βάλλ᾽: αἰεὶ δὲ πυραὶ νεκύων καίοντο θαμειαί.
A long time ago, I had heard that true Ancient Greek sounded vageuly familiar to Japanese, but since I had never heard it correctly, I was left unable to understand how one could even think that.; Now, I know. What a beautiful language...
Thank you, I never knew that since I never studied it in the first place, but listening to the video me too I found it so similar to Japanese in cadence and tone!
Fun fact: during the Bronze Age, Greek was written with a syllabary just like Japanese is today
I've always maintained, Iliad is the greatest piece of literature of all time.
Great performance.
Real nice to hear the sounds reconstructed as close as possible to the original (at least according to specialist consensus), great job. I'm wondering, were you also attempting to convey the original length of vowels, and the rhythm of the poetry?
Thank you for your kind comment. Yes, in any classical recording, I try to be as meticulous about the vowel-lengths as I can, with respect both to poetry and prose. So far as rhythm in a more general sense is concerned, I prefer to let it come through subtly than to bring it out in an obvious fashion, as is also my principle in reading English poetry. Greek poetry was often sung, and in singing the rhythm is very apparent; but my own intention in my recitations, which are not sung, is, in whatever language they may be delivered, to approach the matter more as a declaiming rhapsode, and to “interpret the mind of the poet to my hearers” (as Plato writes of rhapsody in the Ion) by means of emphasis, inflection, and pause.
Thank you! Awesome!
Somehow, it reminded me the spell of Saruman at LOTR
one of the best
Wonderful! Keep this work! It gave me a true impression on how it was recited! We don’t have this kind of poetry anymore…
Awesome ! It's such a beautiful langage.
Yes.
Bravo! Read the whole poem in the same style, please! You're so awesome in doing that! I've subscribed not to miss a video if you do. Χαῖρε πολλά!
The best reading performance here on TH-cam!
I freaking love it!
It's beautiful.
Outstanding.
Fantastic. Shivers went down my spine.
Long Live the Ancient Dreams!
Beautiful
Marvelous
Bravo!
Μπράβο στα αρχαία!
This is awesome!
Congratulations
Thank you, this is brilliant
Absolutely stunning and inspiring.
Practicing my pronunciation with this :), a really good video!
Man i thought latin was complicated to speak this sounds insane
Thank you very much! (From Brazil.)
Merveilleux, vous m'avez donné envie de retrouver mes racines grecques. Nous les Français ( Γαλάτες) sommes d'abord des Gaulois (γαλατικός), Romains ( Ρωμαίοι) et Francs (φράγκα) par nos ancêtres, mais surtout nous sommes Romains (Ρωμαίοι) et Grecs ( Έλληνες) par notre langue et notre culture. Je vais donc écrire à la Commission Européenne pour lui proposer de déclarer le grec ancien et le latin, langues officielles de l'Union Européenne, en lieu et place des vingt autres utilisées à ce jour, ça nous changera de l'affreux globish dont nos élites auto-proclamées nous rebattent les oreilles. L'anglais du roi Charles, oui, mais celui de Macron et Ursula von der Leyen, non, trois fois non! Vive la Grèce et vive l'Italie, nos mères nourricières.😀
Просто сравните, насколько компактнее древнегреческий язык, чем современный английский. Как минимум в два раза
... και από τα Νέα Ελληνικά...
Excellent pronunciation, but the dactylic hexameter gets lost here. I would be willing to bet that the poem was recited more strctly in meter since the lines were so well known.
Thank you for your kind words about the pronunciation. Regarding metre, I try to be very careful about it, and should welcome any example where a word is given a false quantity. I would, however, add the caution that I never chant my Greek. We occasionally read, in ancient writers, of prose that sounded like verse, because of the arrangement of quantities. What I infer from this is that we need not read Greek poetry in anything like a mechanical or sing-song manner: we should no more exaggerate it than (say) a good actor should mouth Shakespeare's iambics, in order to make their rhythm obvious. I aim, therefore, for a delivery where quantity is strictly adhered to, but relative to the naturally-varying tempo of different phrases, and broken up by appropriate pauses.
@@ThomasWhichello thanks for your reply. I just have always heard the dactylic hexameter like a drum beat and it has a hypnotic, very regular relationship with standard lines in Homer, and the fascination for me is where the variants are within lines. Of course, although I'm pretty old, I wasn't present for the traditional recitation lol.
For now I am enjoying the experiment of trying to make the delivery relatively naturalistic. But I imagine that there must have been different performance-styles in antiquity, as there are in reading poetry today, and that some performers did indeed make the hexameter sound more obviously like a drum-beat, as some actors make Shakespeare sound more obviously like a heart-beat. But in any event, I thank you for your message also and for the discussion.
No other language sounds like Greek
Nice
Dear Thomas, Thank you so much for these recordings, which I find deeply moving and authentically educational. Is it really correct that 'clang' and 'bow' [as in bow and arrow] are both Ancient Greek words? [9:52]. Indeed it seems that they are, and this is wonderful.
Dear Ben, thank you for your kind words. ἔκλαγξαν” and “κλαγγή” are indeed onomatopoeias, just like the word clang in English. It is remarkable that they still have the same effect after thousands of years. An analogous case, which has occasionally been remarked on, is the phrase “παρὰ θῖνα πολυφλοίσβοιο θαλάσσης” (line 34), “along the shore of the loud-resounding sea,” where the plosive, aspirated, and hissing consonants give rise to a noise that reflects the idea in question. Ezra Pound calls it “untranslated and untranslatable,” and the onomatopoeias of Homer in general “magnificent.”
Ok, the problem is that the Koinoe (common Greek) language is being spoken more or less since 900 AD until toady with not that much difference, and as the Greek Orthodox chruch lytourgy is conducted in the same language since then, I can't see how the pronunciation has changed that much. So this is Homeric Greek, so is it supposed to be circa 700-600 BC? To be honest I reckon whoever spoke like that in ancient Greece people would be looking at them as Japanese. I don't believe that the way the Greeks use their mouth to utter the Greek words has changed that much over the centuries. I think that a native English speaker will always sound weird trying to speak Greek, make it ancient or "modern" as we use different parts of our mouths to produce various sounds.
Thank you for your comment. Your comparison between ancient Greek and Japanese is apt, because both languages are mora-based and have a pitch accent. The same was true of Sanskrit during the time of the Rig Veda, composed between about 1500 and 1000 B. C., which has the same Indo-European origins as do the language and metre of Homer. An extract from West's Introduction to Greek Metre (1987) on this relationship:
“The following features are common to Greek and Indian (Vedic) verse, and may be assumed (until someone shows reason to think otherwise) to be inherited from a common tradition that flourished in at least part of the area occupied by the IE tribes at the time when they were still in some sort of general contact with one another. Each verse has a definite number of syllables or metrical positions, and would become unmetrical if a single syllable were added or taken away. There is some regulation of rhythm, particularly towards the end of the verse. Rhythm is defined not by a pattern of stressed and unstressed syllables as in English verse (the word-accent in both classical Greek and Vedic Sanskrit was one of musical pitch rather than stress, and had no effect on versification) but by a pattern of long and short syllables. Common to both traditions are the closing cadence ◡ - ◡ x and its truncated counterpart ◡ - x. A syllable counts as long either if it contains a long vowel or diphthong (which may, however, be shortened at the end of a word when immediately followed by another vowel) or if its vowel is separated from that of the next syllable by more than one consonant.”
What West says of English in relation to ancient Greek and Sanskrit rhythm, that "their rhythm was not defined by a pattern of stressed and unstressed syllables, as in English verse," is equally applicable to modern Greek, which, like English, is a stress-based language.
With respect to the pronunciation of ancient Greek, see Allen’s Vox Graeca and Horrock’s Greek Language History for the principles which I follow. You are entirely correct that there has been little change in the pronunciation of Greek (which, like Spanish, has been conservative) between about 900 A. D. and the present day; but there is no greater relationship, in pronunciation or structure, between modern Greek and Homeric Greek, than there is between modern English and the Anglo-Saxon of Beowulf.
@@ThomasWhichello Thomas, thank you for your detailed reply. Mind you I studied Classical Archaeology at UCL and there was always debate between the Greek students and their tutors over the "Erasmian" pronunciation. What I am talking about is slightly different, though. If you listen to German, English, Dutch. and some Scandinavian, the way they use their mouths (lips, tongue, etc) to produce the sounds are obviously similar. I am talking about the sound. The English T is not Greek T. The English R is not the Greek R. Again, if you look at Spanish, Southern Italian, Greek, most of the Hebrew, Armenian and Persian, the sounds they are producing, again, are similar. On the other hand Arabic, or Indian or Pakistani (Punjabi, Urdu) are producing sounds that the Greek mouth will never be able to produce. So, what I am saying is this: An English K, a Dutch K, a German K, are similar K's. A Greek K, a Spanish K, a southern Italian K, are similar K's. From that point of view, long or short vowels or not, using the English K to speak ancient Greek is artistic liberty. I can't see why one shouldn't use the Greek K instead. It is like me trying to speak ancient English. I would never be able to produce the right sounds as I am not a native speaker. Thank you again. And congratulations for your interest and knowledge on the subject.
Thank you for your kind reply. You are right that the consonants which you mention are difficult for English-speakers to pronounce. The difference between English t and Greek τ, English p and Greek π, English k and Greek κ, is that the former consonants are aspirated, and the latter are unaspirated. The same is true (to bring another language into the comparison) of English t versus Spanish t, English p versus Spanish p, and English k versus Spanish k. Likewise, the Greek r, which (as in Spanish) is rolled, is difficult for English-speakers to pronounce, because our own r, with the exception of certain varieties and accents like Scottish or upper RP, is now a mere approximant. Nevertheless, we do see a number of dedicated English-speakers master these difficulties and attain, by perseverance, a good accent in Greek, Spanish, or in any other language under the sun. I have done my best to pronounce τ, π, and κ without aspiration in my videos, and to roll my r's; I am imperfect, but always trying to improve. Ancient Greek θ, φ, and χ on the other hand, were pronounced essentially as the English letters t, p, and k, as aspirated versions of τ, π, and and κ, and not (as in modern Greek) as fricatives. This is clear from the fact that τ, π, and κ, change into θ, φ, and χ before a rough breathing. In the case of θ, φ, and χ, it is the English-speaker who actually has something of an advantage in speaking ancient Greek; although, because we tend already to pronounce the unaspirated consonants as aspirated, our inclination is to go too far with the aspirated ones, and actually make them into affricates.
The Erasmian pronunciation involves, among other oversights, the pronunciation of θ, φ, and χ as fricatives, as in modern Greek, and the sounding of ει as /ei/ and not (as in classical Attic) as /e:/, and so I should not define my own pronunciation as Erasmian. My aim is merely to come as close to the reconstructed pronunciation of the classical period as is possible.
@@ThomasWhichello Dear Thomas, I know you tried a lot to pronounce it as close as possible and actually it is a good try. I'm not going to insist any further, I just know, from my own experience, no matter how much I try, my English has a heavy Greek accent, it's the mechanics of my mouth. And I know English speakers of greek, such as my Australian or American cousins, who although fluent, they do speak greek with an omnipresent Melbourne or Boston accent. Only true bilinguals can master both I guess. Anyway, take care, and such great effort of yours there. Keep up the good work.
Muito bom
Wow. Very cool. Great in every way.
More!!!
Great pronounciation
Well done.
🫶🫶🫶 thank you
precioso
Κύδος!!! (Kudοs)!!!
What's your assessment of Boris Johnson's delivery? Some say his pronunciation was way off, and he skipped lines etc.
His emphasis is good and he reads with spirit, which, for me, are two of the most important qualities in a reader. For example, in the line οὕνεκα τὸν Χρύσην ἠτίμασεν ἀρητῆρα, “Because he dishonoured Chryses, the priest,” Johnson puts stress on the word ἠτίμασεν, dishonoured, which is an excellent choice; and when he is reading the lines of Agamemnon where Agamemnon is dismissing Chryses, he adopts an angry attitude and uses dismissive gestures. His pronunciation is Anglicized, although I can’t really fault him for that, because virtually no attention is given to pronunciation during an Oxford undergraduate classics degree, nor does it count for anything in the exams. Whatever a person learns in that regard, they have to learn for themselves.
A few points as to what I mean by the word Anglicized. His eta is pronounced /ei/ instead of /ɛ:/; epsilon, /ɛ/ instead of /e/; omega, /əʊ/ instead of /ɔ:/; omicron, /ɒ/ instead of /o/; words like χερσίν are treated like the nurse lexical set, and the epsilon pronounced /ɜ/ instead of /e/; unaspirated consonants are aspirated; theta and phi are pronounced as fricatives, and not as aspirated versions of tau and pi; the rho is not rolled, and it is dropped where it would be dropped in non-rhotic accents; sigma becomes /z/ where it would do so in the English pronunciation of Latin and Greek, like the word "Caesar"; double consonants are treated as single ones; unaccented syllables sometimes become schwa; and the placement of the accent is generally ignored. A few examples: μῆνιν he pronounces /ˈmeinin/, ἡρώων, /hɪəˈɹəʊəʊn/, Διὸς, /ˈdiɒs/, γὰρ, /gɑ:/, ἄλγε᾽, /ˈalgi/, χολωθεὶς, /kʰɒˈləʊθɪs/, φέρων, /ˈfɛɹəʊn/, Ἀπόλλωνος, /apʰɒˈləʊnɒs/, θαλάσσης, /θaˈlasəs/, βασιλῆϊ, /baziˈleii/.
Respecting the omissions, they begin only with line 8, τίς τ' ἄρ σφωε θεῶν ἔριδι ξυνέηκε μάχεσθαι. But following this, lines 14-16, 18, 19, 21-23, 32, and 39-42, are omitted. Oversights also increasingly appear after this point; e. g. ἐπείθετο, epeitheto, becomes epaiseto; στέμματ᾽, stemmat, becomes skeptrat; Χρύσην, Chrusen, becomes Chluthen; ἀνάσσεις, anasseis, becomes anathois; Ἀπόλλωνι ἄνακτι (Apolloni anakti) becomes Ἀπόλλωνι ἄνακτος (Apolloni anaktos); the line πολλὰ δ' ἔπειτ' ἀπάνευθε κιὼν ἠρᾶθ' ὃ γεραιὸς becomes something like ἐνθ᾽ ἀπάνευθε θεῶν πολήρτο ὃ γεραιὸς, and so on.
@@ThomasWhichello Thanks for your detailed analysis, much appreciated.
ΥΠΕΙΡΟΧΟΣ ΕΙ ΠΑΝΤΩΝ ΑΟΙΔΩΝ
Внушительно.
Now, how would it sound with rythmn ?
I always read with the digamma. Many words with 4 vowels in a row sound ridiculous without the digamma.
Magical to think this was the same way people listened to this almost 3 thousand years ago.
Magnificent!
Just one slight remark: ζ is better pronounced /zd/, not /dz/, as shown by Αθήνας+δε=Αθήναζε.
Thank you very much. With respect to Zeta, I personally consider both /dz/ and /zd/ to be valid, first because there are good arguments on either side of the question (the Zeta article on Wikipedia has a concise summary of some of them), and secondly because there was dialectical variation in any event.
Haven't the diphthongs been pronounced as one by the time of Homer?
To speak in rough terms, ει and ου were monophthongal even to Plato and Sophocles (as /e:/, later raised into modern Greek /i/, and as /u:/), and υι was so towards the end of the classical period (as /y:/, later unrounded into modern Greek /i/); but αυ, αι, ευ, ηυ, οι, ωυ, and diphthongs which are now written with an iota subscript (ᾳ, ῃ, ῳ), became universally monophthongal only during the time of Roman Greece and the Roman Empire.
@@ThomasWhichello ιota subscripta is later monophthongized than ει?
Аэд!
Why sometimes I think of hearing Hungarian instead of Ancient Greek?
perhaps front rounded vowels like ῡ οι sound like hungarian ű ő
long front rounded*
This sounds a little like Finnish language.
Sorry but your χ is pronounced as κ ; and your θ as τ
χ, θ, and φ, are in classical Greek merely aspirated versions of κ, τ, and π (/k/ versus /kʰ/, /t/ versus /tʰ/, /p/ versus /pʰ/). The difference can be subtle to hear, because in an exclusive manner many languages either aspirate or do not aspirate these consonants (overwhelmingly, for example, we have the aspirated versions in English, while in modern Greek there exist only the unaspirated ones). I don't always bring out the distinction as perfectly as I might wish.
Are you speaking Eskimo language?
This is ancient Greek.
you are an idiot
For all of you who have enjoyed this. I offer you one of the most beautiful songs i have ever heard. A lullaby sung in ancient Greek, inspired by a poem of the time. This song is the intro to Assassins Creed Odyssey a game that had a budget bigger than many Hollywood movies. Ancient Greece has been painstakingly reconstructed and you can actually get the game and just have it on historical/explore mode. It is breath taking and if you want to see Ancient Greece brought to life it is found within this masterpiece of a game enjoy, i dream this was my mother singing this to me as a child:
th-cam.com/video/RkG-PEq_ur8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=TC-AU0FcNJqvxYSc