Its like plastic surgery. Always striving for what we think is perfect, not realizing that the imperfections are what makes us/music/basically anything interesting and unique and real.
@@danielbentley7117 yes actually. That’s EXACTLY what they mean. Human imperfections, mistakes, are what make music have feel. Why do people double track instruments? For example, why do you double track a guitar? Why not just duplicate the track in your DAW? Because all’s it will do is make it louder, even if you modify certain parts of the copied track, it has no big, grand dangerous feel.
@@footos8511 Double tracking doesn't disprove my point. Doing multiple takes actually hides mistakes in timing and pitch because your brain hears the average of all the takes together, instead of the bad notes or phrasing of each individual take. Similar to how a chorus effect works, by shifting the pitch above and below the performance.
no it doesnt! It requires whatever it happens to require at that moment. Hard work and patience doesnt equate great music. It's not like building a house.
Thelonious Coltrane. Agreed in full. It is also one of the products of a plastic society; one where the average IQ of humans - all over the planet - is halving ever day.
@@Dayandcounting dlr was never about vocal prowess, hes a front man and a showman and fronted the best work VH did, also a decent lyricist, they arent supper deep but its catchy and you can sing along to dozens of his songs which to me is the mark of a good songwriter
It was easier to because most of them could sing. Today when you can't sing. It wouldn't matter if you sang it a million times it would be bad. So you have to look they get the machine behind you and write your music and auto tune your terrible vocals.
When Believe came out, it was considered a cool effect that gave the song a dance music vibe. Everyone knew Cher could sing. Now while some use auto-tune for effect, others use it as a crutch for poor vocal skills.
The thing with Cher is that they didn't try to hide the fact that it was a vocal effect, and it really made her clean voice pop in the chorus. The way Autotune is used today, they essentially try to trick the listener into thinking the performer is a perfect signer.
How did I manage to stumble upon this genius? Rick, how do you even sleep at night with all of that knowledge in your brain? The names, the words, the vocabulary, the theory, the notes, the chords, the genres. Amazing.
You can have talent and still use autotune, there are many aspects of music that aren't vocals. People who usually use autotune as a tool in electronic or ambient music still have talent.
That's what I love about singing. If it's a really hard note, like a Bb4 and up, getting that note is so satisfying for me because of how much work I had to put into getting it. Autotune just kills any satisfaction in singing.
Not strain, reaching for it. Straining for a note means poor technique which will damage the vocal cords. One of the singing technique channels does a series on how the voices of singers like Mariah and Whitney for example, changed over time. Both of them did damage to their voices - Mariah through bad technique and Whitney through her addictions, and even they started to strain. So, straining is a sign something's not right.
A good example would be Judas Priest and Iron Maiden for the metal genre. There are instances in their songs where the singers are doing as you described. Its awesome.
Amen, say it again. When I go out shopping or to dinner with my wife I can hear this stuff being played constantly. It's like having a rash that won't go away.
My favorite use of Autotune is as a sort of vocal assistant. I recorded a vocalist who had trouble with pitches. I took the first take, and autotuned the heck out of it. Then recorded a vocal take using the tuned track as sort of a guide for the vocalist. Afterwards, muted the tuned track, and the second track without autotune is perfectly acceptable. I find that even I can sing better with my own voice as a pitch reference.
@@cjay2 The vocalist is a good friend who used to be a fantastic vocalist and entertainer, but due to a series of tragedies and health issues, needs help and a confidence boost. Just trying to help.
"Your imperfections in your playing or your singing is what gives it character." Truer words have never been spoken. As a vocal coach, I'm always amazed at how many of my students come in expecting for AT to solve all their problems. I have to remind them that by the time they get to the studio, it's too late to become a good singer. That AT should be a LAST resort, not the first move you make. Not only because you'll have to hold your voice together live, but as you mentioned, pitch correcting takes away what makes you sound like you. Great video my friend! Keep it up!!!
Check out any Motown recording to feel what humans were doing on the level. …or Kind of Blue…in three recording sessions of probably 9-10 hours total. Daft Punk is cool too, but a different creative approach as mentioned.
My daughter and I were listening to a teen pop "artist" (used to date Justin Bieber) several years ago and she said to me that she wished she could sing like that. I told her, "So does she".
Hey Rick, I'm a 35 year musician and now recording/mixing in my own small studio. I learn something new, something I'm doing wrong or something I could be doing better in almost every video you make. I appreciate you!
And here's where we acknowledge that Neil Peart was more than a drummer and lyricist - he was a prophet. "All this machinery making modern music can still be open-hearted. Not so fully charted, it's really just a question of your honesty."
@@camk6566 The way I interpret NP, he's saying studio technology is a good thing when used to enhance creativity, but it's a bad thing when it's used as a substitute for talent and skill -- 15+ years before AutoTune existed.
Great side note. Indeed. Neil was possibly as good A LYRISIST as he was a DRUMMER. Wait a second … Is that even possible?? Mind-blowing talent, that's it. I think.
From the same album: "Computerized clinics, for superior cynics, who dance to a synthetic band. In their own image, their world is fashioned; no wonder they don't understand" ~Natural Science
I've said for a while now that "nothing is perfect, but moments can be" This applies to music as well - the performance, timing and pitch may not be perfect, but the synergy, feel, and experience of the moment it creates can be perceived as perfect and profound.
Sure teach them to sing it right. Thats what vocal coaches do. That is what they get paid for. But when you are in the studio, and the clock is ticking, engineers get paid to bring in great tracks. The NOW sound. Autotune it Baby! Got bills to pay.
Rick, I’m 22 and grew up so entrenched in the pop auto-tune world that I barely knew a charting song WITHOUT auto tune. Your video has made me realize how much it is used as a crutch, in my opinion, at the expense of a sincere and real sounding vocal! I hope as a culture we can get back to a point where we can have great music that doesn’t involve the excessive use of auto tune! 🤘😃
Start checking out the many “first listening” channels. They’re a blast! There are plenty of people in your age bracket who are just discovering the classic tunes from the fifties through the nineties. It’s especially fun if the listeners are black, have been raised on rap, and just figuring out what The Beach Boys could do with close harmony on “Don’t Worry Baby.” Or for that matter watching SRV’s fingers while playing “Voodoo Child” at El Mocambo. Good hunting!
Good for you - if music has a chance to "recover", it will be because of young people like yourself realizing that there is an organic quality to music that touches peoples' souls and striving for that sort of natural excellence. Good luck to you.
Omg... the first thing that happened when I clicked play was a horrid commercial came blasting out volume 11 straight away a perfect example of the auto tune that has, indeed, killed the soul out of modern music. Great episode Rick, as a session vocalist I have never needed auto-tune and am not interested to use it in my own productions.
I was just listening to Queen's, "Love of My Life" on TH-cam. A gentle and romantic ballad with Freddie and Brian on his 12 string guitar... And then it was immediately followed by a commercial with a uber-loud, crazily AutoTuned version of "Jingle Bells." The dissonance was jarring! (Did TH-cam just give me 'the finger' or something?)
I remember doing sessions and band recordings in the late 90’s-early 2000’s where AutoTune was used as intended: to clean up one or two notes in an otherwise stellar vocal take. The singer would nail the part, or section, but one or two notes were off-so you go in and fix the little mistake to not lose a great performance. This is what it was basically meant for…not to be a crutch for bad singers! As with most tech developments, it became abused and taken out of its context. The sad part is, it’s completely changed (destroyed?) modern music.
Lazyness on the part of producers, just seeking attractive people to make an image with no talent let alone musical or singing ability. eg K-Pop, and most music on the charts at the minute.
@@IncredibleGoliath Massive time saver, ie lets make some money. What about making music that means something, that will stand the test of time - that is art.
And now, a lot of drummers play with a click during concerts. No more problems of tempo, they don't need to listen to the other musicians. That also is taken out of context, I understand you do that for a recording, or in a show with many things happening, but to play with a band ?
Of course, once it becomes an accepted option to edit one or two bad notes, now the competition is on. Who can have the most perfectly tuned recording? Who can do it fastest and cheapest? Before you know it, you're not even sure which artists are actually good singers, especially since it works on live performances in real time.
@@deltab9768 Unless it's used as an effect like a vocoder, sparingly it's B.S. Now that I think of it, there is one recording of K.D Lang where she struggles to hit the note on record. On a compilation it was fine. They must have cleaned it up. I appreciate the rawness, fraility of the first recording.
Dimebag said it best. He said that the little imperfections in music are what keep music honest. I think that those same imperfections are what keep music human as well. Great video! ✌🏼
@@crankfotton So since some of these comments were made while ago,supposedly what was I arrogant about exactly? Because whatever comment I was arrogant about seems to have been erased,so tell me why you would be mad that I was arrogant,without knowing what I was being arrogant about?
Just makes me appreciate Karen Carpenter all the more -- she had such a beautiful and angelic voice that was naturally breathtaking and way before autotune.
I adore Karen Carpenter. One of the most naturally pitch-perfect singers ever to live. But even she and Richard weren't immune to the desire to make choruses pitch perfect (and thus "small"). If you compare their early 1970s multi-track vocals (Close to You or Rainy Days and Mondays, for example) with their latter work (Good Old Dreams, Touch Me When We're Dancing), the earlier recordings are warmer, richer, fuller, deeper, and bigger. The later songs (which I still enjoy) sound thinner and smaller and "airy" -- not just because Karen's voice changed a bit and she was using her upper register more (or head voice) -- but because Richard was overlaying only the most pitch-perfect of overdub tracks, robbing them of the slight variations that made them sound more natural and bigger.
@@SteveBonario She played the drums on those early albums. Singing was secondary to her drumming and it was these later albums where they forced her to just sing and that is why they are weak.
I was the lead vocalist of a band back in the 80's and all I had at my disposal was simple reverb. If you sucked as a singer, reverb was not going to save you. You either had the ability or you didn't. I miss those days.
I had this album when first released but I cant stand her voice anymore. Does she sing awesome? Yes and the music arrangement is good. But I cant change the song quick enough now when it comes on. Lol
Quantized drums are a real peave of mine, I started playing drums by learning Hendrix tunes, tempo variation to me is just as important as pitch variation for adding emotions to the music.
Absolutely! I thought about this a few weeks ago when I listened to Deep Purple's Fireball record. Would it sound as good if it was recorded with a click and locked to a grid? Hell no!
However, the lenny song is one of the best mix downs ever. Part of getting a mix to blow everything away is compression without destruction of the highs and mids so natural compression or in that Case compressing the background vocals to focus the lead is brilliant. The real-time compression unit reacts after the fact no matter how fast it starts pulling back its not before the do do happened with attenuation. That auto tune is a form of frequency band compression rather than volume compression. Cher used that effect appropriately for her purpose. There is no such thing as cheating... just if its in your face all the time. Im sure they did multiple tracks to thicken it again in chers case the engineer doesnt want you to put your finger on what's going on. Its just weird is a good thing. I'm sure do whop whop was ok on the first record too except in the Italian district. Ten years later, it was grounds for assault. There are a few things that make you want to kick the radio... auto tune is one, but its usually in combination with fake falsetto some dude who got it from the Stinkin Lincoln Continental Americaz got talent ? Then there is the warm up vocal sort of fake tape echo chant nobody used until someone made the judges cry, then everything music copy frenzy started swirling around the drain. No, it didn't sound like that and he had a better writer and that fad wasn't a fad only singers who havent worked with a band much. You don't need to sing heart attack yak yak yak. I think that was Billy Joels first over use of slap back on vocals and we can let it slide, it may have even been an effects unit. Im not as curious as Rick. However the recent trend is... Wow, you were in a small room and then suddenly you are in a Fake cave and can't afford an effects processor. My other problem is cover tunes that are worse than the original. Why ? Elton John doesn't need your help. You are reading the milk carton wrong.
As someone who worried in vfx and film, half of the time they just go..post will take care of it.. post can’t fix everything. It can but it’ll look somewhat fake. Do it well live. I was taught in film school, production is for making the shot and getting things right and post is for making the creative stuff you can’t do in real life. Not a bandaid for production’s laziness or mistakes. Although sometimes it is needed due to unforced circumstances but can’t be used as a crutch everytime.
Rick, so happy I came across this video to hear about this topic from a true professional. I absolutely hate auto-tune and I think there are way too many no talent singers out there making millions when I've seen better vocalists in bars pulling in a couple of hundred dollars a night. A couple of years ago I tuned into one of the award shows where one of the opening acts came out, sat down on a step and started to sing. It was auto-tuned to death. And I believe he was up for an award. It was embarrassing and I changed the channel. Years ago Leonard Cohen won a Juno award (sort of a Canadian Grammy) and he joked that only in Canada could a guy with his voice win an award for singing. He knew he wasn't perfect but that's what made him so interesting. Love your channel.
Anytime I’m in a restaurant or a store where they play some generic “pop” playlist, all I can hear is the pitch corrected vocals. There’s lots of modern music made with little or no autotune, but it seems you can’t have a top 40 hit these days without over use of autotune.
I was watching a clip about Doris Day, and because she was so well trained singing with a big band as a very young woman, when she had a solo recording career almost all of her songs were done in 1 take.
Imagine auto tuning Elvis, Jerry Lee, Chuck Berry, The Temptations, The Supremes, Aretha, Frank Sinatra, The Beatles, the Eagles, or Celine. Auto tune? Nah! It’s just another step towards soulless emptiness in my worthless opinion. I’m just a fossil. I grew up in the fifties when singers could sing or they didn’t make records so what would I know about good music? Oh!!’ Sorry! I used the “G” word. How pretentiously judgemental of me. Don’t worry though young folks. My generation will soon disappear into oblivion along with our antiquated values and the world we destroyed with our disgusting meritocratic tyranny and you’ll all be truly “free” to soar to new heights of “inclusivity”.
I sing with two choral groups, and the amount of effort we spend perfecting our pitches is considerable (think 30 hours of rehearsal for a 90-minute concert). Ans we're not even soloists! If I were a recording artist, I wouldn't be able to respect myself if I didn't put at least that much rehearsal in before a recording session. Pitch problems are caused by one of two things: a weak ear or a weak work ethic.
Yes, pre-COVID I sang with a symphony choir and we probably put in a similar amount or more in terms of rehearsal time together, not counting self-practise at a piano and with sound files. I also took over a hundred lessons with a voice coach before I auditioned. The upside is that I learned how to sing and appreciate great singers (I have even more appreciation for the Beatles now - or contemporary singers like The Good Lovelies) but the downside is that autotune and poor pop singers bother me even more.
Always love it when one can get back on their own favourite saying and turn it around. Couldn't agree more: 'Pitch is not a place, it's an area.' Beautiful :-)
Man, I love this channel! "Your imperfections in your playing or your singing is what gives it character." - If I may add, IMO, this goes the same in the way of overly engineered projects that clip off the front and tail nuances for intense riff clarity, nudging audio (not midi quantize) performances to lock tighter performances. Though it sounds fantastic, I wouldn't mind hearing the occasional string buzz just to give it that hoooman element.
that was a great breakdown. I remember when Neil Young say in an interview that they would make him record over and over again because they said he was out of tune and he said thats my voice. And you know what that is why Neil Young has such a distinct sound. Same with Perry of Janes Addiction
That’s what makes music great to listen to. I hate hearing music that has vocals that sound absolutely perfect. Music is art. IMO subconsciously, you lose the human connection when the music is pitch corrected, you cant hear the emotion in the music. Imagine if Willie Nelson’s music used auto tune. Auto tune is why new country music is so awful sounding.
I was amazed recently to discover that many young people can't hear it. I was complaining that everyone sounded like robots and they have no idea what I meant.
Isn’t it amazing that Rick is so knowledgeable about anything to do with music? We are so fortunate to have him dissect a song and analyse all the incredible parts of the song.
As a working musician, I've had venue owner's or staff ask me to let a friend/relative sing, and am always assured that they are very good. They then get on stage and sound horrible and then sometimes they will turn to me and say "turn the autotune up" it sounds bad.. "I don't have autotune sister girl. I've been singing all night! Get the hell off my stage!" Very few modern singers can actually sing... Sadly there are very few Steve Perry's out there.
I always felt that Steve Perry was the result of a studio doing what studios do. Man was I wrong. When I saw that guy live it was unbelievable. You know someone else who gets left out is Steve Walsh of Kansas. His live performances (before he smoked and coked himself out) were just incredible.
As a vocalist for over 40 years, I appreciate that you made this video on auto-tune. I've worked with people who are not vocalist, but (because of auto-tune) the listeners believe this is what they sound like. It infuriates me.
Steve Perry harmonizes with himself on "When the lights go down in the city" by journey. His pitch is so spot on that it SOUNDS autotuned, but it's not. He is just that good.
Cool that you mention Steve Perry...when Rick was talking about the three part harmonies and the variations of them I had to stop the video and play "Girl Can't Help It." (The live one from 1986) The acapella harmony at the end is just that freakin' good. :D (Aw heck, the whole song rocks. XD)
Didn’t they use some device in the late ‘70s - ‘80s called “vocal harmonizers”? Usually for the back-up vocals? I could swear that Journey and Van Halen used it for the back-up vocals, (Especially like on Journey’s “Feelin’ That Way/Anyway That You Want It”).
I take voice lessons for fun, and any time I've obsessed over how a note sounds, my teacher usually says something like this: "The note was there. I heard you do it. And frankly, it doesn't have to be flawless. Perfection has no place in art."
I don't know whether Rick got himself some vocal coaching, but I would say his singing has improved a lot in the time that he's had this channel. In his early videos, I did think it a shame that such a talented multi-instrumentalist had such a terrible voice - but in the more recent ones I'd describe his singing as, at worst, 'average'.
My uncle was a professional musician in Hawaii, and when he passed away, I was able to go through his stuff. One of the things he left behind was an accordion. I had no interest in it, but I could tell it was playable and so I decided to put it up for sale on eBay. That got me started researching accordions, and I found out that there is something called "dry" tuning and "wet" tuning. An accordion is a reed instrument, basically a bunch of harmonicas, with three reeds tuned to each pitch. "Dry tuning" is when two of the reeds are tuned the same, resulting in a tighter sound around the fundamental. "Wet" tuning is when all three reeds are out of tune with each other. Interestingly, wet tuning tends to sound brighter, richer and "happier." You wanna Roll Out the Barrel, get an instrument with wet tuning. But something more romantic, maybe dry tuning would be easier to sing to.
Dry tuning is no tremolo. Wet tuning is a heavy tremolo. But you also have diatonic accordions tuned to play harmony chords and chromatic accordions tuned to equal temperament. A well tuned accordion can make a big difference to an out of tune one, as a number of reeds are played for each button/key across 2, 3, 4 or 5 reed blocks. This leads back to Rick's video. You can auto tune, but if you dont auto-tune harmony correctly, it sounds wrong. Sing a major chord with the 3rd -14 cents flat and the 5th +2 cents. Its better. The barbershop quartets did it. The Beach boys did it. Hohner Harmonicas did it for the Blues. And diatonic button accordions do it.
Additive synthesis with sine waves has the same issues except more extreme. I quit doing it and now look to recording IFFT results into a wave table. What you typically want is a smooth bump (maybe gaussian distribution) in the spectrum around a pitch rather than a zero-width line, and then harmonics that are also smooth bumps. So a natural sounding 440hz has some 439.825 Hz mixed in as well as thousands of other frequencies between that and 440 Hz as well as above. This creates timbre and helps us hear chords vs harmonics of a single voice. It also smooths out mathematical problems in equal temperament tuning whereas pure sines require perfect just intonation to avoid dissonance and low frequency beat notes. Adding a second detuned reed is basically the same concept. It does sound tremolo of course since there are only two. But if you had 30 or so slightly detuned reeds that would be a very rich sound.
This is so true, though I couldn't quite figure out how to explain it to people. I used to play fretless bass slightly sharp during fills to make the licks pop out over the guitars and keys (which I discovered you can do on accident because my intonation wasn't always spot on). Thank you Rick, for always encouraging musicians to be themselves and play the best you can be!
Fun fact: in the A Night At The Opera documentary, Brian May said that Freddie Mercury was doubling the takes and they had a problem that he would phase with himself so close he would sing each take :D
I heard this when I was a music student, but I'm pretty sure it is apocryphal. No matter how phenomenal his voice was, he was still human, so I don't think it is possible to purposely sing in phase with a recording of yourself for any length of time. Certainly not an entire take, a melodic line or even for more than just a split second.
"Gimme Shelter" background vocal by Merry and that vocal crack she hits would have been autotuned out or rerecorded if it were done today. That raw character of her vocals on that track is what made that song great.
@Jugizet Good point. Gimme Shelter voice crack was one of those perfect happy accident musical moments. Usually, voice cracking doesn't sound that good because it's off pitch. "Imperfection" in music can be great and necessary, but most imperfection is bad. Great music is still 99% perfect
This reminded me of the documentary, "Sound City," and a snippet featuring Tom Petty. He talked about missing the days of cutting tape and literally recording live over and over until they got it right. He said it wasn't perfect but in a way it was because that's how it was supposed to be.
I always come back to the painting world when I think about music. We went from realism to impressionism, we went from abstract expressionism to pop art. There is always a swing of the pendulum, I'm actually excited for the next swing of raw artists who rebel against technology in music. For every Warhol there is a Basquiat around the corner. :)
Yeah, I think this is right on. We'll rubberband back in the other direction as we're certainly hitting the limit of how far we can stand stretching in this direction.
There's been plenty of that. It just doesn't usually chart. The 20th century concept of popular music is dead. These days it's just models who dance, sing, and take on whatever personality their fan base wants to see. It's not about the music anymore. This is why I invest zero time looking at top hits or charts. Just listen to whatever you like. It's not worth lamenting over. 1950-1995 was a great moment for music. Things have changed too much. I don't expect to see something like that again.
So nice to hear someone from the industry say exactly what I've been saying for over 20 years. I mostly get dismissed for saying it but that's mostly from people that aren't musicians themselves. I haven't played or sung professionally for 25 years now so I never encountered autotune myself but I would have refused it instantly, my pride would have stopped me from using it.
This was great. I always wondered how auto tune worked to this level of detail. This was a PERFECT explantation and demonstration. You are the man Rick. You are the king of TH-cam in my book.
That's why songs like "Helplessly Hoping" by Crosby, Stills and Nash, and "Seven Bridges Road" by the Eagles, will always be classics...sheer pure unadulterated talent.
I was under the impression that most modern vocals were layered and harmonized. Something like the beach boys might have more acapella style harmonization with the addition of instrumentation, which isn't a typical modern sound. But just because most vocals aren't harmonized in that style doesn't mean they aren't harmonized. It's usually done subtly where you mostly hear the main melody and there's just some extra layers to fill it out.
Most people can’t understand the harmony of the spheres they just want a marching beat to help them mindlessly grind through the day back then people with money and taste actually had the sense to invest in actually masterful interesting music but now it’s just corporate bottom lines no extra money for experimenting with a risky band
The autotune "effect" initially creeped me out and continues to until today. It reminds me of the sadness I felt when, as a child, I met a man who needed an electrolarynx to speak.
Don't get me started on "Fly Away." The lyrics read like poetry from 12 year old school girl: "I wish that I could fly, into the sky, so very high, just like a dragonfly." You know it's bad when the best lyrics are: "oh, oh, oh yeah!"
This is something only native english speakers notice. To a foreign non-anglophone audience, these primitive rhyme and the no-rhyme get away/fly away sounds pretty natural - and I say that as a portuguese native speaker. However, these first verses are really annoying to anyone with a basic comprehension of english.
Rick. You commented that the slight imperfections in someone's voice gives it the character that makes it almost unique to them. Recently I commented on the video of another music analyst TH-camr (Wings of Pegasus). He was comparing the waveforms of Karen Carpenter's vocals from both a Live version and a recorded version of _"Close to You"_ (of course, no autotune in 1971!). It was fascinating to see how close she gets Live to the way she sang it on the studio album. They were similar, but the waveforms don't lie, and they are proof to debunk those who say Karen mimed or lip-synced and never actually sang Live. The waveforms also made it clear that she almost always sang her vibrato ever so slightly flat - I wonder whether that flatness is what gave her voice the characteristic sound that you immediately recognize as Karen the instant you hear it.
You don't hear the NY style of lyrics either, since it's half spoken, half sung… A great way to tell tales in a song. I'm thinking about Lou Reed, Sonic Youth, Bob Dylan even.
@@julosx Can you expand on this statement. I'm interested in what you're saying (your perspective), and what is it you are calling the NY style of lyrics?
@@d-watshoustonsfinest7363 It's the way some singers tell tales in their song, that explains why their lyrics are half spoken, half sung. Listen to Lou Reed or Sonic Youth and you'll understand what I'm about, especially when it's Lee Ranaldo or Kim Gordon who's singing (songs like _The Sprawl_ for Gordon or _Eric's Trip_ by Ranaldo, in their seminal album "Daydream Nation" from 1988).
There is an anecdotal story about a model who was signed to a major as the “next big thing” - when she arrived at the studio to record her first single and was asked to sing, she delivered the immortal line “can’t I just SAY the words and you make it sound good in the computer?”
The saddest thing about this is we are so used to hearing the "auto-tune sound" as a people nowadays that even the singers who do not use it often unconsciously try to imitate it and we end up with all of these similarly perfect, characterless voices.
I think it speaks to how soulless music has become as well. Not all obviously but when humans are imitating a device that lets other humans who can't sing, sing, then it's a flattery that we could really do without.
I'm not used to it. Just like I'm can't ever get used to artificial sweeteners. My kids are in the music room noodling around on their guitars on a pink Floyd song right now. Like Rick's kids, my kids HATE that fake vocal sound.
I always viewed Auto-Tune as like athletes using PEDs. Also, it takes uniqueness away from what made artists special in the past. I don't think someone like Bowie or Sting would be able to make it these days because of the push for "perfect" voices by producers and labels, yet Bowie and Sting were amazing. These "perfect" voices are uninteresting. Live music used to blow me away. Not so much anymore because of auto-tune. I know someone who auditioned for The Voice. She had a beautiful unique voice but was told by a producer "no thank you, but we're just looking for certain types of voice". And pretty much all we end up with are carbon copies that can be "perfected" with auto-tune. maybe that's why it's hard to tell the difference between modern artists. Just my point of view.
I remember watching a video of the making of We Are The World. David Foster, producing the record, cuts in and tells Neil Young that he’s kind of off pitch, to which Neil replies, “that’s my thing man”.
"A man needs a maid" is pretty near the knuckle but then again, he can sing alongside CSN and fit in perfectly. Then again, check out "Don't be denied" where his harmony singers are Ben Keith and Jack Nitzsche - hardly the world's best sets of pipes - and yet it really works.
I was just coming home for lunch and had Led Zep blasting in the van. The difference between that and these examples is astounding. Give me imperfections all day long, it sounds so bloody good! Cheers Rick
I agree! 100%. Music is created by human beings. Not computers looping 1 4 5 in a key over and over. Auto tune, beat quantization, etc. it’s all just simulations of music. It’s not real. Would you create a hockey team of all robots? Of course not, robots are near perfect, they make no mistakes, the game wouldn’t go ANYWHERE. The game revolves around mistakes, I’m no hockey guy but I understand the just of the game, and I know that when a player makes a big mistake, it can result in a big change in how everything plays out. It’s the same with music. We need the human element, the slightly off tune, or beat, it gives the feel, the suspense, the giant sound to a song.
That's awesome, I'm picturing this is an old Econoline van with graphics on the side, like a lightning bolt or a wolf howling at the moon, and the little circular windows near the back doors. Please tell me I'm not wrong
To me, AT is *only* great when it's intention of usage is to actually sound inhuman, not just to "make your voice better". It's kinda like the difference between an acoustic and an electric guitar. We don't say that an electric guitar sounds like a distorted acoustic because that's not the point. Both don't sound "better or worse", they just produce entirely different sounds.
@Taezakny They can also be very distracting. You can still keep the uniqueness by just lifting it a little closer to pitch, instead of "snap to grid" of course. It obviously depends on how bad these "bad notes" really are and how detrimental they are to the performance. If it adds character, I agree, keep it.
@Taezakny Yeah, I don't think one should iron out every tiny unevenness and make it sound smooth and fully unnatural, but just patching up a mistake or two, I don't see a big issue there.
Still sounds awful even as an effect to my ears. And I love distortion, fuzz, synthesizers, vocoders, you name it. But this isn’t an effect. It just sounds horrible.
Rick, there is simply no substitute for the authenticity born of talent and a lifetime of developing skills. And you have it in spades. I just love the passion you bring to every video you make here on TH-cam. You're the real deal.
Yep, well I love on those older recordings when I hear some human effort, such as a crash cymbal that comes in very slightly off after a crazy fill, that high note on the Bb trumpet that wobbles just a bit, that high violin note that's just a bit off after a huge leap up, that awesome jazz piano lick that's not perfectly clean.... So much better.
Great video. There's a term mostly used in horror called "the uncanny Valley." As humans we like things that are similar to us, until it gets too similar to us, then we become afraid of it. It's why some people are creeped out by clowns or dolls. Auto-tune has this effect on me and it sounds like Rick has a similar reaction.
@@twenty-sidedturtle2107 I thought about this I view auto tune as spellcheck for vocals - yes it would be better to type/sing correctly first time but its the finished product which counts so auto tune definitely has a place in music creation. If as a person you think the vocals are soulless or whatever DONT listen to the song, find another song there are possibly millions available or in fact make your own music. Its not as though everyone is being forced to listen to these songs. There are many songs where I hate a certain sound but I dont think its the detah of music
Glenn Fricker did a beautiful rant about autotune on his channel a few years back. His conclusion? THE FANS DESERVE BETTER!!! Pretty much the same things you said: A, it's the slight imperfections that make us sound human and allow us to HAVE those epic vocal takes, and B. people had to actually be able to sing, once upon a time... His example was Bruce Dickinson on Number of the Beast, and how the producer relentlessly making him do the intro over and over and over again, until he was out of his mind, LED to that epic scream we all know and love. Man, could you imagine what singers like John Fogerty; Gregg Allman; Jackson Browne; or Danny Joe Brown would sound like autotuned??? Shudders. Or Buddy Guy? That would be pure heresy!!
I love your explanations and insight. I’ve recorded original songs of my own and other artists also many years ago and I feel paralyzed starting again. I feel sooo out of the loop. I haven’t used any of the new technologies. Wow! Your videos are inspiring me again.
As I used to say about someone I knew long ago - "She was perfect in her imperfection." Rick - I'm only a little older than you, but have you ever talked about music written by Burt Bacharach? One of the greatest pop composer, his work always featured unusual chord progressions and his songs are almost immediately identifiable. It would be cool to hear you break down some of his work.
For a great example of a natural vocal, flawed but beautiful in it’s imperfections, look to Merry Clayton’s backing to Gimme Shelter. It wasn’t exactly improvised but she was hired late and turned up in her pj’s. She sang her heart out, her vocals cracking a few times.
Heard the isolated vocal in the documentary "20 feet from stardom" and actually cried. Don't know why, just did. Phenomenal vocal and a phenomenal film. A must watch.
Just got done listening to "God Only Knows" before this and truer words never have been spoken. I can't imagine what Autotune would have done to the session that Wilson used to create that amazing sound. Like you pointed out, he just kept going back and forth until he got it right. He also recognized when an unintended difference to his original vision added an interesting layer or texture that added to the final sound. Your videos should be required in any modern music theory class. Keep up the great work!
Great call Terence, that was a fantastic song with awesome harmonies. As an aside, I recently saw a rendition of the Beatles Eleanor Rigby live with a group of singers and classical violinists/cellists, just like the original recording, and realised how great the music was back then. It suddenly dawned on me that the song had cool harmonies and melody, engaging story line and strings supporting in the background...no percussion, no bass and guitars.
I read an interesting article about (or interviewing) one of the producers of Norah Jones. Don't have a link handy, but roughly paraphrased he said something like 'We don't use autotune, pitch correction, or heavy FX with Norah, she doesn't need it at all.' Thx Rick, awesome video.
One of the challenges is that today’s listener is now “trained” to listen to only music that is perfectly in tune albeit by production techniques vs. organic singing. With auto tune now made available live it changes the game and makes it more difficult for the true vocalist to stand out from the crowd. Sadly- it’s often now about marketing and brand image more than talent.
Mate, it's becoming the norm everywhere. Eaten a truly organic apple lately? They often look deformed and lacking the perfect shine of the artificially enhanced apples that you get in the big chains. We are becoming coerced into a plastically perfect world in many ways. As many agree, this has been happening in the music world for decades.
@@deldridg I agree! My international business friends talk about how Americans have perfect teeth because every imperfection is fixed. Seems this “pay for perfection” trend is ubiquitous and visible in many areas of life as you so eloquently pointed out in your comment above. Seems I have become like my parents who often lamented the “good ole days” …
@@davidadamsmusic Hi David - you made me laugh. At the ripe old age of 53, I too find myself becoming more like my parents in my horror at certain modern trends! Thank you for your kind words - it is sad but true that increasingly the general message is to be beautiful on the surface and be less concerned about the inner beauty or substance below. Hard work to develop any kind of skill also brings with it character, purpose and a good deal of satisfaction. All these things interplay with the output of the skill regardless of what it is. My kids (and I) work very hard daily on our musical skills and in the sharing of them with others, there is a deeper meaning which I like to think comes across beyond being more 'polished' - if that makes sense! Cheers from Sydney - Dave :-)
Very interesting. Always have been anti-autotune. For years I've made the statement that, "I miss the times when rock/pop stars were good musicians." We celebrate mediocrity in modern music. Much like giving accolades to the teams that comes in last just because the spectators aren't able to make it that far.
Sat around a campfire on vacation and tried to make this argument to a group of people, mostly my family, and everyone acted like I was talking out my ass.
@@AzureSky_Music if I'd been there I'd have had yer back. This whole thing, I believe, is due to less people learning to play an instrument and believing that if they got a computer they can make "music".
@Soy Orbison you'd think, but I'm not a boomer. I just appreciate instruments played by people who have spent time learning and appreciating music that's not digital. And I'm not completely against digital either. In mostly small doses...
@Soy Orbison so true. I went to a big enough school that we had orchestra and brass band starting in 6th grade. Where I currently live the school only has brass band starting in highschool. My cousin teaches at a school with no band at all. Playing an instrument is worth more than just the skill, history, culture or some way to pass the time. Music lives between worlds.
A big part of it is that people are reconciled to mediocrity in their lives. They don't expect to break out of their conundrums. The music they're listening to underscores it. Unless they know better, some do.
I'm a professional music critic and the sheer number of autotuned demos I get is incredible. Maybe it's my age, maybe it isn't. But, I grew up without this mess of an effect. It's colored my view of today's industry and not for the better.
Adam Levine is actually a weak vocalist, and what's worse is that ge has got shitty musicality and goes off the pitch often. Contrary to someone say the lead vocalists of the beatles who were actually weak vocalists as a whole, but they had excellent musicality and great projection. (edit: sry for my English)
I honestly would be the last guy to defend Adam Lavine. But when I heard his cover of "Seasons" which is one of my favorite songs by my favorite singer C.Cornell , I was sold and convinced the dude can sing.
Wait he coached ? I don’t think he can even sing a complete song without auto tune. It’s 100% because he is popular that he coached in my opinion, for the marketing
@@realasadoughnut Yes. It's all about the type of song he is singing. He has the perfect voice for soulful jazzy types of songs. But the high power belted pop songs are not suited to him unfortunately.
This was one of your most interesting videos. As an orchestra teacher who expects my students to develop good intonation in their playing, I have trouble tolerating out of tune notes. BUT please don't fix it artificially. Use your ears!!!
or if you are struggling for time in a studio and that singer just cany hit those notes then whats wrong with the fix of correcting it digitally? live performance I have a different opinion
@@atomiccritter6492 well if they are not good enough, they are not ready for it. And what does „error“. If it still sounds human like in the 70‘s…that’s real and good and emotional. Today even great singers getting destroyed by auto tune. I‘m really tired listening to the robotic sound.
like a flash from a clear sky ... I suddenly heard Freddie singing "Jealousy" on the radio ... Such a relief to hear him sing and play the piano ... suddenly I realized why I love music ..
When I was taught to record back in the day I was always told “you can’t polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter” seems times have changed. Auto tune used wisely can be a god send but understanding, less is more is key.
Absolutely true. But what people forget is that music with autotune present is a specefic genre/style. Therefore it is a tool/instrument. It's not artists cheating you to think they can sing. It's a sound they go for. Same with Phil Collins reversed gated reverb, specific sound he was going for.
@@Nicolailund15 sometimes...I don't think some studios have ever "turned it off" since it was "turned on" regardless of who enters the studio! If it was used an effect sparingly then I would agree with you more but it isn't. It used to such an extent that you often can barely tell what the voice of the singer sounds like. Then they do something live and it is utter crud sounds nothing like the studio version and people wonder why when a half decent band can actually play their studio stuff live and sound similar it is held up and lauded as amazing!
I’m just a listener, not an expert, but I part of the goosebumps factor when listening to a singer can come from them reaching perfect pitch after being slightly off, it’s part of the color and emotion that comes from a natural human voice. When you were playing Seal’s vocals without instrumentation I heard a few off notes, but that gave him humanity and character and me great satisfaction when he was back on point. I agree auto tune is good for effects but can be way over used. I’m a boomer who appreciates good singing.
That's absolutely true. Sometimes "not perfect" is a quality that fits really good in some musical moments. Obviously we're not talking half-step misses, but you can find this "almost in tune notes" effect in many popular and folk music around the world. It´s human, you're absolutely right.
seriously, that "Kiss from a Rose" episode was crazy. like, I knew that the vocals were great. but hearing those without the instruments further made me recognize just how amazing they were.
Thank you. As a fretless bass player I'm always arguing with band members who say I'm "out of tune". I keep trying to explain that it's my "out of tuneness" that gives the music character and depth.
As a photo editor, what I like about these videos is seeing how often editing sound and editing images have a lot in common. Exposure and color correction is a great tool in moderation but if you push it too much, it leaves artifacts and then people use those artifacts as a "style".
@@photodan24 Bro, I do real estate photography and these days you've never seen grass so radioactive. And its crazy that agents and sellers really want that look.
I don't take issue with the pursuit of that "style", as you describe it, but it definitely pushes the work into a different classification of art once it passes a certain threshold. Over edited photographs are no longer "photography", and over edited songs are no longer "music". They can still qualify as art, in some way, as there was creative process involved, but comparing them to other works in the same source medium is just an insult to other artists that don't make the use of those tools the *focus* of the creative process.
I don't know the very first thing about music, yet somehow this is one of my absolute fave entertainment channels. I love it. But I wanna ask Rick if I can borrow his hair for a wknd... I would own the night.
Listening through some of Lenny's albums is like eating whitebread.... You ate something, but you'll be hungry again soon for something more substantial. Idk., Prince, Al Jaerreau are for some reason better at kneading my synapses. And I think it's because of all these small little things adding a tad of grain on top of the music: Things being slightly out of pitch or rhythm.
I had read years ago that Elton John's piano sound is recorded with 3 different layers - one just slightly out of tune higher than the original and one slightly lower than the original and it's why his piano sounds sooooo HUGE!! It actually sounds like 3 different pianos are playing exactly the same thing at exactly the same time.
Its like plastic surgery. Always striving for what we think is perfect, not realizing that the imperfections are what makes us/music/basically anything interesting and unique and real.
nah you have old ears
❤️❤️❤️
Plenty of singers can sing perfectly in key without autotune. Using the word "imperfections" sounds like you enjoy out of tune singers.
@@danielbentley7117 yes actually. That’s EXACTLY what they mean. Human imperfections, mistakes, are what make music have feel. Why do people double track instruments? For example, why do you double track a guitar? Why not just duplicate the track in your DAW? Because all’s it will do is make it louder, even if you modify certain parts of the copied track, it has no big, grand dangerous feel.
@@footos8511 Double tracking doesn't disprove my point. Doing multiple takes actually hides mistakes in timing and pitch because your brain hears the average of all the takes together, instead of the bad notes or phrasing of each individual take. Similar to how a chorus effect works, by shifting the pitch above and below the performance.
"The better the singer's voice, the harder it is to believe what they are saying. So I use my faults to an advantage" -David Byrne
68
Nice handle by the way, Sudo! ;)
TAKE A LOOK AT THESE HANDS
Byrne's voice is great. Totally gave Talking Heads most of their character.
Your pseudonym has the subconscious effect of giving system admins an overwhelming urge to backup all their servers.
@@NorthernKitty Honour your mistakes as hidden intentions - Brian Eno Oblique Strategy cards
Everything we call ‘character’ is the deviation from perfection. So perfection to me is characterlessness. - Brian Eno
If you make a mistake, do something creative with it. - Eno
Auto-tune is one of the products of a fast-paced society. Everything is rushed.
Music is passion. Creating music requires patience.
no it doesnt! It requires whatever it happens to require at that moment. Hard work and patience doesnt equate great music. It's not like building a house.
Thelonious Coltrane. Agreed in full. It is also one of the products of a plastic society; one where the average IQ of humans - all over the planet - is halving ever day.
@@atta1798 "progress", the word people use to ignore their moral compasses...
@@atta1798 There's more than one logical fallacy in that reply - and sadly nothing else. Check yourself before you wreck yourself.
@@atta1798 Deflect more, buddy. It's hard to miss just how unhinged you are.
"The only people who got record deals were people who could perform live" - that's a statement that goes so far beyond just singing.
Van Halen with DLR, hold my Whisky. Terrible live band musically speaking.
You can get a record deal as a writer instrumentalist producer or even mixing or mastering engineer
@@Dayandcounting dlr was never about vocal prowess, hes a front man and a showman and fronted the best work VH did, also a decent lyricist, they arent supper deep but its catchy and you can sing along to dozens of his songs which to me is the mark of a good songwriter
@@Dayandcounting Van Hagar was a bad ass live band though. Sammy is simply an amazing singer.
@@Dayandcounting
I saw Van Halen in 1980 and they were the exact opposite of terrible.
"So what did people used to do before auto-tune? Well, they would sing it until they got it right."
Such a simple, grand observation.
It was easier to because most of them could sing. Today when you can't sing. It wouldn't matter if you sang it a million times it would be bad. So you have to look they get the machine behind you and write your music and auto tune your terrible vocals.
When Believe came out, it was considered a cool effect that gave the song a dance music vibe. Everyone knew Cher could sing. Now while some use auto-tune for effect, others use it as a crutch for poor vocal skills.
Bon Iver is another example of someone who can really sing, but has used Autotune as a cool effect.
The thing with Cher is that they didn't try to hide the fact that it was a vocal effect, and it really made her clean voice pop in the chorus. The way Autotune is used today, they essentially try to trick the listener into thinking the performer is a perfect signer.
yes, on "Believe" it was an effect, much like the vocoder was in the 1970s and 1980s
@@toddbernstein3407 yessss!! The song "Woods" on the early Blood Bank EP is actually one of my favorite examples of this!!
@@toddbernstein3407 same with Billie Eilish.
How did I manage to stumble upon this genius? Rick, how do you even sleep at night with all of that knowledge in your brain? The names, the words, the vocabulary, the theory, the notes, the chords, the genres. Amazing.
If we could save people's brains in a jar to keep their knowledge, Rick's brain would be one I would choose.
@@heysolley not if I get to it first
@@sara505sings : That sounds like a challenge LoL
@@heysolley No need to save it in a jar, Rick is sharing it openly here for everyone's benefit :)
I'm not against autotune, I'm against people getting famous because autotune will compensate for their lack or absense of talent.
Excellent comment
They got famous because the fans like the sound. If they didn't they wouldn't get famous. Hate the fans not the artist.
@@danielj26 No I hate both.
@@Flippokid I'm saying you are the minority or they wouldn't be top 40. You also hate Hollywood makeup and driving cars instead of horses too?
You can have talent and still use autotune, there are many aspects of music that aren't vocals. People who usually use autotune as a tool in electronic or ambient music still have talent.
There's something about hearing an artist straining for a note and then finally reaching it that gives me goosebumps
That's what I love about singing. If it's a really hard note, like a Bb4 and up, getting that note is so satisfying for me because of how much work I had to put into getting it. Autotune just kills any satisfaction in singing.
Not strain, reaching for it. Straining for a note means poor technique which will damage the vocal cords. One of the singing technique channels does a series on how the voices of singers like Mariah and Whitney for example, changed over time. Both of them did damage to their voices - Mariah through bad technique and Whitney through her addictions, and even they started to strain. So, straining is a sign something's not right.
One… twenty one GUNS!
Oh, not like that.
A good example would be Judas Priest and Iron Maiden for the metal genre. There are instances in their songs where the singers are doing as you described. Its awesome.
Amen, say it again. When I go out shopping or to dinner with my wife I can hear this stuff being played constantly. It's like having a rash that won't go away.
yeah, hard to avoid that crap. only headphones or earplugs
My favorite use of Autotune is as a sort of vocal assistant. I recorded a vocalist who had trouble with pitches. I took the first take, and autotuned the heck out of it. Then recorded a vocal take using the tuned track as sort of a guide for the vocalist. Afterwards, muted the tuned track, and the second track without autotune is perfectly acceptable. I find that even I can sing better with my own voice as a pitch reference.
I would suggest that someone who can't sing on pitch when required is not really a vocalist.
@@cjay2 The vocalist is a good friend who used to be a fantastic vocalist and entertainer, but due to a series of tragedies and health issues, needs help and a confidence boost. Just trying to help.
A " VOCALIST who had trouble with pitches " ....HAD TO STOP and shut up .!!!!!
I can see it being a good tool for learning. I play bass but can't sing, but wanna find my voice more or less.
@@jean-lucbersou758 Stfu dude, read his other comments before spouting nonsense.
"Your imperfections in your playing or your singing is what gives it character." Truer words have never been spoken.
As a vocal coach, I'm always amazed at how many of my students come in expecting for AT to solve all their problems.
I have to remind them that by the time they get to the studio, it's too late to become a good singer.
That AT should be a LAST resort, not the first move you make.
Not only because you'll have to hold your voice together live, but as you mentioned, pitch correcting takes away what makes you sound like you.
Great video my friend! Keep it up!!!
My playing has lots of character. 😄
Check out any Motown recording to feel what humans were doing on the level. …or Kind of Blue…in three recording sessions of probably 9-10 hours total. Daft Punk is cool too, but a different creative approach as mentioned.
Early painters used to purposely put flaws in their paintings because only God is perfect.
@@barrywerdell2614 Word mate.
Even most popular music is void of real people playing real instruments. With midi you can quantize and go back and correct notes.
My daughter and I were listening to a teen pop "artist" (used to date Justin Bieber) several years ago and she said to me that she wished she could sing like that. I told her, "So does she".
@@hal2098 I think you meant he doesn't understand soul sucking overproduction.
Breaking news: local man thinks he’s super cool for dunking on his child daughter.
@@KnivingDispodia it's only dunking if you ignore the fact that she can totally sing and autotune is mostly just an effect
I mean u are right lol. Selena Gomez is a very average singer, her live performances are trash.
@@hal2098 this comment section is full of bitter failed musicians looking to blame someone for why they haven't made it
Hey Rick, I'm a 35 year musician and now recording/mixing in my own small studio. I learn something new, something I'm doing wrong or something I could be doing better in almost every video you make. I appreciate you!
This isn't only informative, it's also entertaining. Great storyteller, and teacher. Keep it up, Rick! Cheers
And here's where we acknowledge that Neil Peart was more than a drummer and lyricist - he was a prophet. "All this machinery making modern music can still be open-hearted. Not so fully charted, it's really just a question of your honesty."
Can't go wrong with Rush. The lyrics of "The Spirit of Radio" re. the music industry, ring true to this day.
coldly
@@camk6566 The way I interpret NP, he's saying studio technology is a good thing when used to enhance creativity, but it's a bad thing when it's used as a substitute for talent and skill -- 15+ years before AutoTune existed.
Great side note. Indeed. Neil was possibly as good A LYRISIST as he was a DRUMMER.
Wait a second … Is that even possible??
Mind-blowing talent, that's it. I think.
From the same album: "Computerized clinics, for superior cynics, who dance to a synthetic band.
In their own image, their world is fashioned; no wonder they don't understand"
~Natural Science
Love this Rick. As a vocal coach,and producer, I get them to sing it right. My mantra….our vocal imperfections, make it sound perfect
Music is a human expression. It's not supposed to be perfect. Perfect is void of the human aspect of musical expression
I've said for a while now that "nothing is perfect, but moments can be"
This applies to music as well - the performance, timing and pitch may not be perfect, but the synergy, feel, and experience of the moment it creates can be perceived as perfect and profound.
Sure teach them to sing it right. Thats what vocal coaches do. That is what they get paid for. But when you are in the studio, and the clock is ticking, engineers get paid to bring in great tracks. The NOW sound. Autotune it Baby! Got bills to pay.
@@MrStupidHead exactly: everything wrong with art as business
@@ryo-kai8587 Art for Art's sake. Money for gods sake ! ( the band, 10cc, 1976)
Rick, I’m 22 and grew up so entrenched in the pop auto-tune world that I barely knew a charting song WITHOUT auto tune. Your video has made me realize how much it is used as a crutch, in my opinion, at the expense of a sincere and real sounding vocal! I hope as a culture we can get back to a point where we can have great music that doesn’t involve the excessive use of auto tune! 🤘😃
If you want to detox go check Superstar by The Carpenters, Karen had the voice of an angel
Start checking out the many “first listening” channels. They’re a blast! There are plenty of people in your age bracket who are just discovering the classic tunes from the fifties through the nineties. It’s especially fun if the listeners are black, have been raised on rap, and just figuring out what The Beach Boys could do with close harmony on “Don’t Worry Baby.” Or for that matter watching SRV’s fingers while playing “Voodoo Child” at El Mocambo. Good hunting!
Good for you - if music has a chance to "recover", it will be because of young people like yourself realizing that there is an organic quality to music that touches peoples' souls and striving for that sort of natural excellence. Good luck to you.
@@TheSilverGate easily one of the best ever in pop.
If you want to hear an astonishing natural voice go listen to some Elvis studio recordings, they kept going till it was 'right'
Omg... the first thing that happened when I clicked play was a horrid commercial came blasting out volume 11 straight away a perfect example of the auto tune that has, indeed, killed the soul out of modern music. Great episode Rick, as a session vocalist I have never needed auto-tune and am not interested to use it in my own productions.
I was just listening to Queen's, "Love of My Life" on TH-cam. A gentle and romantic ballad with Freddie and Brian on his 12 string guitar... And then it was immediately followed by a commercial with a uber-loud, crazily AutoTuned version of "Jingle Bells." The dissonance was jarring! (Did TH-cam just give me 'the finger' or something?)
That stuff is offensively rampant.
And this is one of the reasons why I absolutely refuse to ever turn off uBlock Origin on TH-cam.
I remember doing sessions and band recordings in the late 90’s-early 2000’s where AutoTune was used as intended: to clean up one or two notes in an otherwise stellar vocal take. The singer would nail the part, or section, but one or two notes were off-so you go in and fix the little mistake to not lose a great performance. This is what it was basically meant for…not to be a crutch for bad singers! As with most tech developments, it became abused and taken out of its context. The sad part is, it’s completely changed (destroyed?) modern music.
Lazyness on the part of producers, just seeking attractive people to make an image with no talent let alone musical or singing ability. eg K-Pop, and most music on the charts at the minute.
@@IncredibleGoliath Massive time saver, ie lets make some money. What about making music that means something, that will stand the test of time - that is art.
And now, a lot of drummers play with a click during concerts. No more problems of tempo, they don't need to listen to the other musicians. That also is taken out of context, I understand you do that for a recording, or in a show with many things happening, but to play with a band ?
Of course, once it becomes an accepted option to edit one or two bad notes, now the competition is on. Who can have the most perfectly tuned recording? Who can do it fastest and cheapest? Before you know it, you're not even sure which artists are actually good singers, especially since it works on live performances in real time.
@@deltab9768 Unless it's used as an effect like a vocoder, sparingly it's B.S. Now that I think of it, there is one recording of K.D Lang where she struggles to hit the note on record. On a compilation it was fine. They must have cleaned it up. I appreciate the rawness, fraility of the first recording.
Dimebag said it best. He said that the little imperfections in music are what keep music honest. I think that those same imperfections are what keep music human as well. Great video! ✌🏼
@@hal2098 Awesome. Do you always get things wrong?
@@crankfotton So since some of these comments were made while ago,supposedly what was I arrogant about exactly? Because whatever comment I was arrogant about seems to have been erased,so tell me why you would be mad that I was arrogant,without knowing what I was being arrogant about?
Just makes me appreciate Karen Carpenter all the more -- she had such a beautiful and angelic voice that was naturally breathtaking and way before autotune.
I adore Karen Carpenter. One of the most naturally pitch-perfect singers ever to live. But even she and Richard weren't immune to the desire to make choruses pitch perfect (and thus "small"). If you compare their early 1970s multi-track vocals (Close to You or Rainy Days and Mondays, for example) with their latter work (Good Old Dreams, Touch Me When We're Dancing), the earlier recordings are warmer, richer, fuller, deeper, and bigger. The later songs (which I still enjoy) sound thinner and smaller and "airy" -- not just because Karen's voice changed a bit and she was using her upper register more (or head voice) -- but because Richard was overlaying only the most pitch-perfect of overdub tracks, robbing them of the slight variations that made them sound more natural and bigger.
Absolutely. And Olivia Newton John is the other one, perfect pitch.
@@SteveBonario She played the drums on those early albums. Singing was secondary to her drumming and it was these later albums where they forced her to just sing and that is why they are weak.
her voice had real depth to it. she didn't have to force anything to sound good. no adorning with her singing. natural
She had such range to her voice. I can still listen to her voice for hours. It's so soothing. She sure didn't need any auto-tune.
I was the lead vocalist of a band back in the 80's and all I had at my disposal was simple reverb. If you sucked as a singer, reverb was not going to save you. You either had the ability or you didn't. I miss those days.
Alanis Moresette's Jagged Little Pill album is a great example of great vocals. The imperfections gives it character.
The imperfections and her anger made that a great album... And maybe some Chili Peppers...
Excellent example. I wasn't a fan of it but man, could she sing
I had this album when first released but I cant stand her voice anymore. Does she sing awesome? Yes and the music arrangement is good. But I cant change the song quick enough now when it comes on. Lol
Adam Levine music is awful
You are preaching to the Choir!!!!!!!!!!!Alanis the best
Quantized drums are a real peave of mine, I started playing drums by learning Hendrix tunes, tempo variation to me is just as important as pitch variation for adding emotions to the music.
All forms of quantization strip the real organic humanity from music.
@@EphemeralTao exactly they just lack that human touch
Absolutely! I thought about this a few weeks ago when I listened to Deep Purple's Fireball record. Would it sound as good if it was recorded with a click and locked to a grid? Hell no!
I had a friend who used to scream at me for not playing like a metronome all the time. He was a lifeless soul.
@@brushstroke3733 sounds like it. Real bands dont stay perfectly in time 100% of the time.
As one youtuber once put it about the overuse of CGI in flims: "Convenience devolved into laziness". This is yet another case of that.
Yes! The major issue I have with autotune is that it allows singers to get away with being ordinary and not actually practice.
"You may not have noticed... *but your brain did* "
However, the lenny song is one of the best mix downs ever. Part of getting a mix to blow everything away is compression without destruction of the highs and mids so natural compression or in that Case compressing the background vocals to focus the lead is brilliant.
The real-time compression unit reacts after the fact no matter how fast it starts pulling back its not before the do do happened with attenuation. That auto tune is a form of frequency band compression rather than volume compression.
Cher used that effect appropriately for her purpose. There is no such thing as cheating... just if its in your face all the time. Im sure they did multiple tracks to thicken it again in chers case the engineer doesnt want you to put your finger on what's going on. Its just weird is a good thing. I'm sure do whop whop was ok on the first record too except in the Italian district. Ten years later, it was grounds for assault.
There are a few things that make you want to kick the radio... auto tune is one, but its usually in combination with fake falsetto some dude who got it from the Stinkin Lincoln Continental Americaz got talent ? Then there is the warm up vocal sort of fake tape echo chant nobody used until someone made the judges cry, then everything music copy frenzy started swirling around the drain. No, it didn't sound like that and he had a better writer and that fad wasn't a fad only singers who havent worked with a band much. You don't need to sing heart attack yak yak yak.
I think that was Billy Joels first over use of slap back on vocals and we can let it slide, it may have even been an effects unit. Im not as curious as Rick. However the recent trend is...
Wow, you were in a small room and then suddenly you are in a Fake cave and can't afford an effects processor.
My other problem is cover tunes that are worse than the original.
Why ? Elton John doesn't need your help. You are reading the milk carton wrong.
As someone who worried in vfx and film, half of the time they just go..post will take care of it.. post can’t fix everything. It can but it’ll look somewhat fake. Do it well live. I was taught in film school, production is for making the shot and getting things right and post is for making the creative stuff you can’t do in real life. Not a bandaid for production’s laziness or mistakes. Although sometimes it is needed due to unforced circumstances but can’t be used as a crutch everytime.
@@KawaiiCat2 True words indeed. I've been there as well, the "we'll fix it on post" approach to things some have 🙄
Rick, so happy I came across this video to hear about this topic from a true professional. I absolutely hate auto-tune and I think there are way too many no talent singers out there making millions when I've seen better vocalists in bars pulling in a couple of hundred dollars a night. A couple of years ago I tuned into one of the award shows where one of the opening acts came out, sat down on a step and started to sing. It was auto-tuned to death. And I believe he was up for an award. It was embarrassing and I changed the channel. Years ago Leonard Cohen won a Juno award (sort of a Canadian Grammy) and he joked that only in Canada could a guy with his voice win an award for singing. He knew he wasn't perfect but that's what made him so interesting. Love your channel.
Anytime I’m in a restaurant or a store where they play some generic “pop” playlist, all I can hear is the pitch corrected vocals. There’s lots of modern music made with little or no autotune, but it seems you can’t have a top 40 hit these days without over use of autotune.
I hear a lot of added vibrato these days as well. Listen to Billy Ray on Old Town Road or a lot of newer Bieber tracks.
agreed. also congrats on the verification!!
Can you give us examples? I haven't heard a wide release record without autotune in 20 years, metal, rap, folk, etc they all have it, noticeably.
oh man, how i hate the overuse and abuse of autotune. just a little bit is fine, but nopes... they put the whole jar of autotune on everything
Truth. And it’s a damn shame.
I was watching a clip about Doris Day, and because she was so well trained singing with a big band as a very young woman, when she had a solo recording career almost all of her songs were done in 1 take.
Same think with Karen "One Take" Carpenter.
The same with A. Franklin etc..
Same with Donna Summer.
She was insane in another way.
Imagine auto tuning Elvis, Jerry Lee, Chuck Berry, The Temptations, The Supremes, Aretha, Frank Sinatra, The Beatles, the Eagles, or Celine. Auto tune?
Nah! It’s just another step towards soulless emptiness in my worthless opinion. I’m just a fossil. I grew up in the fifties when singers could sing or they didn’t make records so what would I know about good music? Oh!!’ Sorry! I used the “G” word. How pretentiously judgemental of me. Don’t worry though young folks. My generation will soon disappear into oblivion along with our antiquated values and the world we destroyed with our disgusting meritocratic tyranny and you’ll all be truly “free” to soar to new heights of “inclusivity”.
I sing with two choral groups, and the amount of effort we spend perfecting our pitches is considerable (think 30 hours of rehearsal for a 90-minute concert). Ans we're not even soloists! If I were a recording artist, I wouldn't be able to respect myself if I didn't put at least that much rehearsal in before a recording session. Pitch problems are caused by one of two things: a weak ear or a weak work ethic.
i'm always in perfect pitch in the shower with all that water and echo effect. giggle
@@lovemusic324 young musician and producer, some of us still practice ❤
Preach
Yes, pre-COVID I sang with a symphony choir and we probably put in a similar amount or more in terms of rehearsal time together, not counting self-practise at a piano and with sound files. I also took over a hundred lessons with a voice coach before I auditioned. The upside is that I learned how to sing and appreciate great singers (I have even more appreciation for the Beatles now - or contemporary singers like The Good Lovelies) but the downside is that autotune and poor pop singers bother me even more.
@@AdAstraCan yeah -_- that tends to happen :/
Always love it when one can get back on their own favourite saying and turn it around. Couldn't agree more: 'Pitch is not a place, it's an area.' Beautiful :-)
Man, I love this channel! "Your imperfections in your playing or your singing is what gives it character." - If I may add, IMO, this goes the same in the way of overly engineered projects that clip off the front and tail nuances for intense riff clarity, nudging audio (not midi quantize) performances to lock tighter performances. Though it sounds fantastic, I wouldn't mind hearing the occasional string buzz just to give it that hoooman element.
Hello verified TH-camr
Geebz on Rick's channel. Must be in heaven
Key Of Geebz!! Love your reactions to TOOL. Subbed!
Love your page, Geebz
hello fellow hoooman
I went to a live concert last weekend with no auto-tune. It was perfectly not absolutely perfect and filled my soul with joy!
yes, the perfect imperfections!
i went to a club gig and the singer was using some kind of auto tune/ harmonizer .sounded perfectly boring
@@l.t.w8985 REO is a lot of fun live! I saw them before Covid.
that was a great breakdown. I remember when Neil Young say in an interview that they would make him record over and over again because they said he was out of tune and he said thats my voice. And you know what that is why Neil Young has such a distinct sound. Same with Perry of Janes Addiction
That’s what makes music great to listen to. I hate hearing music that has vocals that sound absolutely perfect. Music is art. IMO subconsciously, you lose the human connection when the music is pitch corrected, you cant hear the emotion in the music. Imagine if Willie Nelson’s music used auto tune. Auto tune is why new country music is so awful sounding.
I was amazed recently to discover that many young people can't hear it. I was complaining that everyone sounded like robots and they have no idea what I meant.
Shocking and yet... not surprising.
Isn’t it amazing that Rick is so knowledgeable about anything to do with music? We are so fortunate to have him dissect a song and analyse all the incredible parts of the song.
it's literally his job... so... not really surprising but wonderful nonetheless.
“Pitch is a place, not an area” !!!!! LOL!!!
Rick, this must have been one of the best episodes, ever!!!
As a working musician, I've had venue owner's or staff ask me to let a friend/relative sing, and am always assured that they are very good. They then get on stage and sound horrible and then sometimes they will turn to me and say "turn the autotune up" it sounds bad.. "I don't have autotune sister girl. I've been singing all night! Get the hell off my stage!" Very few modern singers can actually sing... Sadly there are very few Steve Perry's out there.
I always felt that Steve Perry was the result of a studio doing what studios do. Man was I wrong. When I saw that guy live it was unbelievable.
You know someone else who gets left out is Steve Walsh of Kansas. His live performances (before he smoked and coked himself out) were just incredible.
Rick, you articulated the state of auto-tune very well. I'll personally take the Freddie Mercury, Joni Mitchell vocals every time.
As a vocalist for over 40 years, I appreciate that you made this video on auto-tune. I've worked with people who are not vocalist, but (because of auto-tune) the listeners believe this is what they sound like. It infuriates me.
Rick: "you want it to be out of tune a bit".
Me: "my time has come"
LOL
I feel ya brother
I've trained my whole life for this...
Ha!!!!
50 cents is still fixable, a few dollars isn't.
Steve Perry harmonizes with himself on "When the lights go down in the city" by journey. His pitch is so spot on that it SOUNDS autotuned, but it's not. He is just that good.
one of the best,period
Cool that you mention Steve Perry...when Rick was talking about the three part harmonies and the variations of them I had to stop the video and play "Girl Can't Help It." (The live one from 1986) The acapella harmony at the end is just that freakin' good. :D (Aw heck, the whole song rocks. XD)
Autotune didn't exist until 1997.
Auto-tune exhibits a characteristic robotic sound that vocal double-tracking (including Steve Perry’s) does not, and cannot, have.
Didn’t they use some device in the late ‘70s - ‘80s called “vocal harmonizers”? Usually for the back-up vocals? I could swear that Journey and Van Halen used it for the back-up vocals, (Especially like on Journey’s “Feelin’ That Way/Anyway That You Want It”).
Rick, honestly, it is a blessing having such a channel on TH-cam! You speak out what we - true music lovers - always thought))
@@PureHoney_ASMR Nonsense.
I take voice lessons for fun, and any time I've obsessed over how a note sounds, my teacher usually says something like this: "The note was there. I heard you do it. And frankly, it doesn't have to be flawless. Perfection has no place in art."
Well said sir!
Awwwww mine said the same when I was a kid! A good teacher stays with you forever
Plays himself singing:
“Terrible right?”
My favorite Rick is self deprecating Rick.
I laughed when he cut himself off on the second track.
My favourite Rick is Pickle Rick.
I don't know whether Rick got himself some vocal coaching, but I would say his singing has improved a lot in the time that he's had this channel. In his early videos, I did think it a shame that such a talented multi-instrumentalist had such a terrible voice - but in the more recent ones I'd describe his singing as, at worst, 'average'.
My uncle was a professional musician in Hawaii, and when he passed away, I was able to go through his stuff. One of the things he left behind was an accordion. I had no interest in it, but I could tell it was playable and so I decided to put it up for sale on eBay. That got me started researching accordions, and I found out that there is something called "dry" tuning and "wet" tuning. An accordion is a reed instrument, basically a bunch of harmonicas, with three reeds tuned to each pitch. "Dry tuning" is when two of the reeds are tuned the same, resulting in a tighter sound around the fundamental. "Wet" tuning is when all three reeds are out of tune with each other. Interestingly, wet tuning tends to sound brighter, richer and "happier." You wanna Roll Out the Barrel, get an instrument with wet tuning. But something more romantic, maybe dry tuning would be easier to sing to.
Everyday there is something new to learn...I learned to play accordeon as a child, but i had never heard about that.
Dry tuning is no tremolo. Wet tuning is a heavy tremolo. But you also have diatonic accordions tuned to play harmony chords and chromatic accordions tuned to equal temperament. A well tuned accordion can make a big difference to an out of tune one, as a number of reeds are played for each button/key across 2, 3, 4 or 5 reed blocks.
This leads back to Rick's video. You can auto tune, but if you dont auto-tune harmony correctly, it sounds wrong.
Sing a major chord with the 3rd -14 cents flat and the 5th +2 cents. Its better. The barbershop quartets did it. The Beach boys did it. Hohner Harmonicas did it for the Blues. And diatonic button accordions do it.
Additive synthesis with sine waves has the same issues except more extreme. I quit doing it and now look to recording IFFT results into a wave table. What you typically want is a smooth bump (maybe gaussian distribution) in the spectrum around a pitch rather than a zero-width line, and then harmonics that are also smooth bumps. So a natural sounding 440hz has some 439.825 Hz mixed in as well as thousands of other frequencies between that and 440 Hz as well as above. This creates timbre and helps us hear chords vs harmonics of a single voice. It also smooths out mathematical problems in equal temperament tuning whereas pure sines require perfect just intonation to avoid dissonance and low frequency beat notes. Adding a second detuned reed is basically the same concept. It does sound tremolo of course since there are only two. But if you had 30 or so slightly detuned reeds that would be a very rich sound.
Thank you for sharing.
also one of the hardest instruments to play so im told.
This is so true, though I couldn't quite figure out how to explain it to people. I used to play fretless bass slightly sharp during fills to make the licks pop out over the guitars and keys (which I discovered you can do on accident because my intonation wasn't always spot on). Thank you Rick, for always encouraging musicians to be themselves and play the best you can be!
Fun fact: in the A Night At The Opera documentary, Brian May said that Freddie Mercury was doubling the takes and they had a problem that he would phase with himself so close he would sing each take :D
I heard this when I was a music student, but I'm pretty sure it is apocryphal. No matter how phenomenal his voice was, he was still human, so I don't think it is possible to purposely sing in phase with a recording of yourself for any length of time. Certainly not an entire take, a melodic line or even for more than just a split second.
"Gimme Shelter" background vocal by Merry and that vocal crack she hits would have been autotuned out or rerecorded if it were done today. That raw character of her vocals on that track is what made that song great.
Great example. One could write a thesis on this
Perfect example. Greatest back up singing ever. Autodumb would pour bleach all over it.
@Jugizet Good point. Gimme Shelter voice crack was one of those perfect happy accident musical moments. Usually, voice cracking doesn't sound that good because it's off pitch. "Imperfection" in music can be great and necessary, but most imperfection is bad. Great music is still 99% perfect
Very good example!
And The Stones knew that and left it in.
This reminded me of the documentary, "Sound City," and a snippet featuring Tom Petty. He talked about missing the days of cutting tape and literally recording live over and over until they got it right. He said it wasn't perfect but in a way it was because that's how it was supposed to be.
Wow, dude. I’ve literally said some of the exact same quotes about auto tune. Could not agree more glad to hear.
I always come back to the painting world when I think about music. We went from realism to impressionism, we went from abstract expressionism to pop art. There is always a swing of the pendulum, I'm actually excited for the next swing of raw artists who rebel against technology in music. For every Warhol there is a Basquiat around the corner. :)
Yeah, I think this is right on. We'll rubberband back in the other direction as we're certainly hitting the limit of how far we can stand stretching in this direction.
There's been plenty of that. It just doesn't usually chart. The 20th century concept of popular music is dead. These days it's just models who dance, sing, and take on whatever personality their fan base wants to see. It's not about the music anymore. This is why I invest zero time looking at top hits or charts. Just listen to whatever you like. It's not worth lamenting over. 1950-1995 was a great moment for music. Things have changed too much. I don't expect to see something like that again.
"Sounds small." Dude, that is a perfect description.
More like "sounds thin"
Small pipì
I was just think about that lol
Also sounds silly
So nice to hear someone from the industry say exactly what I've been saying for over 20 years. I mostly get dismissed for saying it but that's mostly from people that aren't musicians themselves. I haven't played or sung professionally for 25 years now so I never encountered autotune myself but I would have refused it instantly, my pride would have stopped me from using it.
agreed
This was great. I always wondered how auto tune worked to this level of detail. This was a PERFECT explantation and demonstration. You are the man Rick. You are the king of TH-cam in my book.
That's why songs like "Helplessly Hoping" by Crosby, Stills and Nash, and "Seven Bridges Road" by the Eagles, will always be classics...sheer pure unadulterated talent.
The Eagles were just copying Ian Matthews arrangement of Seven Bridges Road. Our local classic rock station has taken to playing the Matthews version.
both songs, the harmony is just amazing. great examples of a 'bigger' sound.
I haven't even heard those songs, but I know those bands & exactly what you mean. Their harmonising emboldens the sound so much
ok boomer
I want to see more of that black haired Rick Beato interview!
Yes! I can’t believe that none of the other comments mentioned that!
Me too!
"...when I do my video on Bohemian Rhapsody." That's a WMTSG I've been waiting on for a long time.
YES!!! I loved that slip...
Music Co. Rights Holder: "When hell freezes over ..."
@@Markothunder Oh that would be loverly... May seems a decent fellow. He 'May' be up for it. See what I did there? 😊
I figured Pink Floyd would be an instant block. We shall see.
@@ryanhallwrites Pink Floyd demonitizes, but does not block. They want that cheddar.
What I would give for a fraction of Rick's musical knowledge. Genius.
I miss harmonies in music. People like The Beach Boys, CSN or the Beatles. Beautiful stuff when people work together to make a sound.
Fleet Foxes first EP and album is probably the best harmonies I’ve heard in recent years.
Have you discovered Larkin Poe yet?
It's part of why groups like System of a Down worked for me :)
I was under the impression that most modern vocals were layered and harmonized. Something like the beach boys might have more acapella style harmonization with the addition of instrumentation, which isn't a typical modern sound. But just because most vocals aren't harmonized in that style doesn't mean they aren't harmonized. It's usually done subtly where you mostly hear the main melody and there's just some extra layers to fill it out.
Most people can’t understand the harmony of the spheres they just want a marching beat to help them mindlessly grind through the day back then people with money and taste actually had the sense to invest in actually masterful interesting music but now it’s just corporate bottom lines no extra money for experimenting with a risky band
The autotune "effect" initially creeped me out and continues to until today. It reminds me of the sadness I felt when, as a child, I met a man who needed an electrolarynx to speak.
I hate it. 😫
Don't get me started on "Fly Away." The lyrics read like poetry from 12 year old school girl: "I wish that I could fly, into the sky, so very high, just like a dragonfly." You know it's bad when the best lyrics are: "oh, oh, oh yeah!"
Those lyrics are awful. I would have been embarrassed by them. They sound like temp lyrics.
Everything in this song sounds so derivative yet i still like it
@@rumblehat4357 who cares man, he is a successful artist and millionaire, he just don't fkn care for others opinion or whatever.
This is something only native english speakers notice. To a foreign non-anglophone audience, these primitive rhyme and the no-rhyme get away/fly away sounds pretty natural - and I say that as a portuguese native speaker. However, these first verses are really annoying to anyone with a basic comprehension of english.
Ricardo Proença true, he probably doesn’t care but it’s amazing what Hollywood connections can do for people.
Rick. You commented that the slight imperfections in someone's voice gives it the character that makes it almost unique to them. Recently I commented on the video of another music analyst TH-camr (Wings of Pegasus). He was comparing the waveforms of Karen Carpenter's vocals from both a Live version and a recorded version of _"Close to You"_ (of course, no autotune in 1971!). It was fascinating to see how close she gets Live to the way she sang it on the studio album. They were similar, but the waveforms don't lie, and they are proof to debunk those who say Karen mimed or lip-synced and never actually sang Live. The waveforms also made it clear that she almost always sang her vibrato ever so slightly flat - I wonder whether that flatness is what gave her voice the characteristic sound that you immediately recognize as Karen the instant you hear it.
Someone I know would say that she sings "blue", which I love and is an art in itself.
"You don't hear the Blues anymore.." Much love & respect Rick.. Cheers!!
That would be a great title for a blues track!
You don't hear the NY style of lyrics either, since it's half spoken, half sung… A great way to tell tales in a song. I'm thinking about Lou Reed, Sonic Youth, Bob Dylan even.
@@julosx Can you expand on this statement. I'm interested in what you're saying (your perspective), and what is it you are calling the NY style of lyrics?
"You don't hear the Blues anymore.." Much love & respect Rick.. Cheers!!
- Dopest comment.
@@d-watshoustonsfinest7363 It's the way some singers tell tales in their song, that explains why their lyrics are half spoken, half sung. Listen to Lou Reed or Sonic Youth and you'll understand what I'm about, especially when it's Lee Ranaldo or Kim Gordon who's singing (songs like _The Sprawl_ for Gordon or _Eric's Trip_ by Ranaldo, in their seminal album "Daydream Nation" from 1988).
There is an anecdotal story about a model who was signed to a major as the “next big thing” - when she arrived at the studio to record her first single and was asked to sing, she delivered the immortal line
“can’t I just SAY the words and you make it sound good in the computer?”
The saddest thing about this is we are so used to hearing the "auto-tune sound" as a people nowadays that even the singers who do not use it often unconsciously try to imitate it and we end up with all of these similarly perfect, characterless voices.
I think it speaks to how soulless music has become as well. Not all obviously but when humans are imitating a device that lets other humans who can't sing, sing, then it's a flattery that we could really do without.
@@heliumtrophy How does a human imitate a computer program.
I'm not used to it. Just like I'm can't ever get used to artificial sweeteners. My kids are in the music room noodling around on their guitars on a pink Floyd song right now. Like Rick's kids, my kids HATE that fake vocal sound.
I always viewed Auto-Tune as like athletes using PEDs. Also, it takes uniqueness away from what made artists special in the past. I don't think someone like Bowie or Sting would be able to make it these days because of the push for "perfect" voices by producers and labels, yet Bowie and Sting were amazing. These "perfect" voices are uninteresting. Live music used to blow me away. Not so much anymore because of auto-tune. I know someone who auditioned for The Voice. She had a beautiful unique voice but was told by a producer "no thank you, but we're just looking for certain types of voice". And pretty much all we end up with are carbon copies that can be "perfected" with auto-tune. maybe that's why it's hard to tell the difference between modern artists. Just my point of view.
I remember watching a video of the making of We Are The World. David Foster, producing the record, cuts in and tells Neil Young that he’s kind of off pitch, to which Neil replies, “that’s my thing man”.
That was "Tears Are Not Enough", the Canadian version of We are the World. But yeah, Neil just doesn't compromise!
Lol
"A man needs a maid" is pretty near the knuckle but then again, he can sing alongside CSN and fit in perfectly. Then again, check out "Don't be denied" where his harmony singers are Ben Keith and Jack Nitzsche - hardly the world's best sets of pipes - and yet it really works.
I was just coming home for lunch and had Led Zep blasting in the van. The difference between that and these examples is astounding. Give me imperfections all day long, it sounds so bloody good! Cheers Rick
I agree! 100%. Music is created by human beings. Not computers looping 1 4 5 in a key over and over. Auto tune, beat quantization, etc. it’s all just simulations of music. It’s not real. Would you create a hockey team of all robots? Of course not, robots are near perfect, they make no mistakes, the game wouldn’t go ANYWHERE. The game revolves around mistakes, I’m no hockey guy but I understand the just of the game, and I know that when a player makes a big mistake, it can result in a big change in how everything plays out. It’s the same with music. We need the human element, the slightly off tune, or beat, it gives the feel, the suspense, the giant sound to a song.
I get your point... Listen to Zep at the Live Aid concert in 85' wish the band all had auto tune that day. :)
@@Keeping-It-Real-55 😂😂😂
Well said, Vince.
That's awesome, I'm picturing this is an old Econoline van with graphics on the side, like a lightning bolt or a wolf howling at the moon, and the little circular windows near the back doors. Please tell me I'm not wrong
To me, AT is *only* great when it's intention of usage is to actually sound inhuman, not just to "make your voice better". It's kinda like the difference between an acoustic and an electric guitar. We don't say that an electric guitar sounds like a distorted acoustic because that's not the point. Both don't sound "better or worse", they just produce entirely different sounds.
Auto-tune is also great when you have one or two bad notes in an otherwise killer vocal take.
@Taezakny They can also be very distracting. You can still keep the uniqueness by just lifting it a little closer to pitch, instead of "snap to grid" of course. It obviously depends on how bad these "bad notes" really are and how detrimental they are to the performance. If it adds character, I agree, keep it.
@Taezakny Yeah, I don't think one should iron out every tiny unevenness and make it sound smooth and fully unnatural, but just patching up a mistake or two, I don't see a big issue there.
I agree. just look at hyperpop
Still sounds awful even as an effect to my ears. And I love distortion, fuzz, synthesizers, vocoders, you name it. But this isn’t an effect. It just sounds horrible.
Rick, there is simply no substitute for the authenticity born of talent and a lifetime of developing skills. And you have it in spades. I just love the passion you bring to every video you make here on TH-cam. You're the real deal.
There's also no substitute for practice and understanding your own voice.
What is said here about vocals also applies to other elements, like guitars and drums. Perfection robs us of beauty.
When everything snaps to a grid (vocals, drums, rhythm guitar etc) you don’t have music, you have a graph.
@@paulyguitary7651 Yes when you have perfect copy paste guitar tracks... why bother with guitars to begin with?
Yep, well I love on those older recordings when I hear some human effort, such as a crash cymbal that comes in very slightly off after a crazy fill, that high note on the Bb trumpet that wobbles just a bit, that high violin note that's just a bit off after a huge leap up, that awesome jazz piano lick that's not perfectly clean.... So much better.
Agreed
@@andyp7449 indeed as many industrial groups do just that
Great video. There's a term mostly used in horror called "the uncanny Valley." As humans we like things that are similar to us, until it gets too similar to us, then we become afraid of it. It's why some people are creeped out by clowns or dolls. Auto-tune has this effect on me and it sounds like Rick has a similar reaction.
interesting point which is possibly why when its OVERUSED it sounds better
@@atomiccritter6492 Exactly. Just like Rick said, if it's used an an effect its fine.
@@twenty-sidedturtle2107 I thought about this I view auto tune as spellcheck for vocals - yes it would be better to type/sing correctly first time but its the finished product which counts so auto tune definitely has a place in music creation. If as a person you think the vocals are soulless or whatever DONT listen to the song, find another song there are possibly millions available or in fact make your own music. Its not as though everyone is being forced to listen to these songs. There are many songs where I hate a certain sound but I dont think its the detah of music
Glenn Fricker did a beautiful rant about autotune on his channel a few years back. His conclusion? THE FANS DESERVE BETTER!!! Pretty much the same things you said: A, it's the slight imperfections that make us sound human and allow us to HAVE those epic vocal takes, and B. people had to actually be able to sing, once upon a time... His example was Bruce Dickinson on Number of the Beast, and how the producer relentlessly making him do the intro over and over and over again, until he was out of his mind, LED to that epic scream we all know and love.
Man, could you imagine what singers like John Fogerty; Gregg Allman; Jackson Browne; or Danny Joe Brown would sound like autotuned??? Shudders. Or Buddy Guy? That would be pure heresy!!
I love your explanations and insight. I’ve recorded original songs of my own and other artists also many years ago and I feel paralyzed starting again. I feel sooo out of the loop. I haven’t used any of the new technologies. Wow! Your videos are inspiring me again.
As I used to say about someone I knew long ago - "She was perfect in her imperfection."
Rick - I'm only a little older than you, but have you ever talked about music written by Burt Bacharach? One of the greatest pop composer, his work always featured unusual chord progressions and his songs are almost immediately identifiable. It would be cool to hear you break down some of his work.
Auto tune sounds like it is being sung or said by a Robot or a person with blocked nasal passages. I cringe when I hear Cher do "Believe"
For a great example of a natural vocal, flawed but beautiful in it’s imperfections, look to Merry Clayton’s backing to Gimme Shelter. It wasn’t exactly improvised but she was hired late and turned up in her pj’s. She sang her heart out, her vocals cracking a few times.
Yes !
She sort of squeaks on the third "murder!" and you can hear someone, Jagger, I think, shout "woah!" or similar. It's a great moment.
her backing vocals elevate the song from 'good' to 'great', in my humble opinion.
Heard the isolated vocal in the documentary "20 feet from stardom" and actually cried. Don't know why, just did. Phenomenal vocal and a phenomenal film. A must watch.
@@alecr666x there's a TH-cam video of all the songs tracks isolated can't remember what it's named though but you should be able to find it.
Just got done listening to "God Only Knows" before this and truer words never have been spoken. I can't imagine what Autotune would have done to the session that Wilson used to create that amazing sound. Like you pointed out, he just kept going back and forth until he got it right. He also recognized when an unintended difference to his original vision added an interesting layer or texture that added to the final sound. Your videos should be required in any modern music theory class. Keep up the great work!
IMO Brian Wilson is a musical genius on par with Mozart. Of course he understands the beauty of imperfection and deviation.
That would make a good video to illustrate the point further. Take a classic track and auto tune it
Great call Terence, that was a fantastic song with awesome harmonies. As an aside, I recently saw a rendition of the Beatles Eleanor Rigby live with a group of singers and classical violinists/cellists, just like the original recording, and realised how great the music was back then. It suddenly dawned on me that the song had cool harmonies and melody, engaging story line and strings supporting in the background...no percussion, no bass and guitars.
I read an interesting article about (or interviewing) one of the producers of Norah Jones. Don't have a link handy, but roughly paraphrased he said something like 'We don't use autotune, pitch correction, or heavy FX with Norah, she doesn't need it at all.' Thx Rick, awesome video.
Therapist: dark hair rick isn’t real and cannot hurt you
Dark hair rick: my name is rick beato
I wish he would grow out his hair just for a single reprisal of that beautiful intro
he was a babe.
@@No1KCfan6 110%
best comment hahaha
I don't know why this is so funny.
One of the challenges is that today’s listener is now “trained” to listen to only music that is perfectly in tune albeit by production techniques vs. organic singing. With auto tune now made available live it changes the game and makes it more difficult for the true vocalist to stand out from the crowd. Sadly- it’s often now about marketing and brand image more than talent.
Not really new, tho. That's been going on for decades.
Mate, it's becoming the norm everywhere. Eaten a truly organic apple lately? They often look deformed and lacking the perfect shine of the artificially enhanced apples that you get in the big chains. We are becoming coerced into a plastically perfect world in many ways. As many agree, this has been happening in the music world for decades.
Amen
@@deldridg I agree! My international business friends talk about how Americans have perfect teeth because every imperfection is fixed. Seems this “pay for perfection” trend is ubiquitous and visible in many areas of life as you so eloquently pointed out in your comment above. Seems I have become like my parents who often lamented the “good ole days” …
@@davidadamsmusic Hi David - you made me laugh. At the ripe old age of 53, I too find myself becoming more like my parents in my horror at certain modern trends! Thank you for your kind words - it is sad but true that increasingly the general message is to be beautiful on the surface and be less concerned about the inner beauty or substance below. Hard work to develop any kind of skill also brings with it character, purpose and a good deal of satisfaction. All these things interplay with the output of the skill regardless of what it is. My kids (and I) work very hard daily on our musical skills and in the sharing of them with others, there is a deeper meaning which I like to think comes across beyond being more 'polished' - if that makes sense! Cheers from Sydney - Dave :-)
Very interesting. Always have been anti-autotune. For years I've made the statement that, "I miss the times when rock/pop stars were good musicians." We celebrate mediocrity in modern music. Much like giving accolades to the teams that comes in last just because the spectators aren't able to make it that far.
Sat around a campfire on vacation and tried to make this argument to a group of people, mostly my family, and everyone acted like I was talking out my ass.
@@AzureSky_Music if I'd been there I'd have had yer back. This whole thing, I believe, is due to less people learning to play an instrument and believing that if they got a computer they can make "music".
@Soy Orbison you'd think, but I'm not a boomer. I just appreciate instruments played by people who have spent time learning and appreciating music that's not digital. And I'm not completely against digital either. In mostly small doses...
@Soy Orbison so true. I went to a big enough school that we had orchestra and brass band starting in 6th grade. Where I currently live the school only has brass band starting in highschool. My cousin teaches at a school with no band at all. Playing an instrument is worth more than just the skill, history, culture or some way to pass the time. Music lives between worlds.
A big part of it is that people are reconciled to mediocrity in their lives. They don't expect to break out of their conundrums. The music they're listening to underscores it. Unless they know better, some do.
I'm a professional music critic and the sheer number of autotuned demos I get is incredible. Maybe it's my age, maybe it isn't. But, I grew up without this mess of an effect. It's colored my view of today's industry and not for the better.
Adam Levine is Mr Autotune. And to think he coached singers on “The Voice.” Rick, I share your sentiments about Maroon 5.
Adam Levine is actually a weak vocalist, and what's worse is that ge has got shitty musicality and goes off the pitch often. Contrary to someone say the lead vocalists of the beatles who were actually weak vocalists as a whole, but they had excellent musicality and great projection. (edit: sry for my English)
I honestly would be the last guy to defend Adam Lavine. But when I heard his cover of "Seasons" which is one of my favorite songs by my favorite singer C.Cornell , I was sold and convinced the dude can sing.
Crap band ... Everything they released is and was Crap ..
Wait he coached ? I don’t think he can even sing a complete song without auto tune. It’s 100% because he is popular that he coached in my opinion, for the marketing
@@realasadoughnut Yes. It's all about the type of song he is singing. He has the perfect voice for soulful jazzy types of songs. But the high power belted pop songs are not suited to him unfortunately.
This was one of your most interesting videos. As an orchestra teacher who expects my students to develop good intonation in their playing, I have trouble tolerating out of tune notes. BUT please don't fix it artificially. Use your ears!!!
I agree completely
or if you are struggling for time in a studio and that singer just cany hit those notes then whats wrong with the fix of correcting it digitally? live performance I have a different opinion
@@atomiccritter6492 Then the musicians need to practice more before they enter the studio. Simple as that
@@MarcoWriedt and when they get there and the problem exists? Are you saying its better to leave in an obvious error or correct it?
@@atomiccritter6492 well if they are not good enough, they are not ready for it. And what does „error“. If it still sounds human like in the 70‘s…that’s real and good and emotional. Today even great singers getting destroyed by auto tune. I‘m really tired listening to the robotic sound.
Great vid Rick
like a flash from a clear sky ... I suddenly heard Freddie singing "Jealousy" on the radio ... Such a relief to hear him sing and play the piano ... suddenly I realized why I love music ..
This video takes me back to Steve Perry..... his imperfections WERE perfection....
I am anti auto tune. Enjoy the rough edges.....
When I was taught to record back in the day I was always told “you can’t polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter” seems times have changed. Auto tune used wisely can be a god send but understanding, less is more is key.
Roll it in glitter? Halarious.
Absolutely true. But what people forget is that music with autotune present is a specefic genre/style. Therefore it is a tool/instrument. It's not artists cheating you to think they can sing. It's a sound they go for. Same with Phil Collins reversed gated reverb, specific sound he was going for.
@@Nicolailund15 sometimes...I don't think some studios have ever "turned it off" since it was "turned on" regardless of who enters the studio! If it was used an effect sparingly then I would agree with you more but it isn't. It used to such an extent that you often can barely tell what the voice of the singer sounds like. Then they do something live and it is utter crud sounds nothing like the studio version and people wonder why when a half decent band can actually play their studio stuff live and sound similar it is held up and lauded as amazing!
I’m just a listener, not an expert, but I part of the goosebumps factor when listening to a singer can come from them reaching perfect pitch after being slightly off, it’s part of the color and emotion that comes from a natural human voice. When you were playing Seal’s vocals without instrumentation I heard a few off notes, but that gave him humanity and character and me great satisfaction when he was back on point. I agree auto tune is good for effects but can be way over used. I’m a boomer who appreciates good singing.
THIS.
I just hope in the age of robotization we'll eventually get tired of perfect artificial things and human imperfections will become really fashionable!
@@Walperion_Music Same here!
That's absolutely true. Sometimes "not perfect" is a quality that fits really good in some musical moments. Obviously we're not talking half-step misses, but you can find this "almost in tune notes" effect in many popular and folk music around the world. It´s human, you're absolutely right.
seriously, that "Kiss from a Rose" episode was crazy. like, I knew that the vocals were great. but hearing those without the instruments further made me recognize just how amazing they were.
Thank you. As a fretless bass player I'm always arguing with band members who say I'm "out of tune". I keep trying to explain that it's my "out of tuneness" that gives the music character and depth.
As a photo editor, what I like about these videos is seeing how often editing sound and editing images have a lot in common. Exposure and color correction is a great tool in moderation but if you push it too much, it leaves artifacts and then people use those artifacts as a "style".
Every time someone discovers the color saturation controls I die a little inside.
@@photodan24 Bro, I do real estate photography and these days you've never seen grass so radioactive. And its crazy that agents and sellers really want that look.
I don't take issue with the pursuit of that "style", as you describe it, but it definitely pushes the work into a different classification of art once it passes a certain threshold. Over edited photographs are no longer "photography", and over edited songs are no longer "music". They can still qualify as art, in some way, as there was creative process involved, but comparing them to other works in the same source medium is just an insult to other artists that don't make the use of those tools the *focus* of the creative process.
@@YamiOni In photojournalism circles, we tended to call them "Photo illustrations" instead of photographs.
I don't know the very first thing about music, yet somehow this is one of my absolute fave entertainment channels. I love it.
But I wanna ask Rick if I can borrow his hair for a wknd... I would own the night.
Tim, I'm confident you have plenty of game without the benefit of Rick's hair. Player play on!
Auto-tune is the high-fructose corn syrup of music.
At least high fructose corn syrup has good taste.
@@JasonTHutchinson but try downing the bottle
I was listening to Baby Love (Supremes) just the other day at it was like eating a plate of fresh vegetables after a month of eating fast food.
Only Daft Punk can makes A-T tracks masterpiece.
@@pearcy5206 like Auto-Tune, is only good in small doses.
Dziękujemy.
It's stripping the soul right out of the music. Many of these young artists might actually have decent, unique voices, but we will never know.
I'd wager most of them are actually garbage.
@@fl00d69 I'll bet if some of them actually tried - & the producers forced them to sing it many times - they would improve.
Rhyme “away with the away” That drives me crazy also, I almost spat my coffee out when you said that, bloody funny.
Listening through some of Lenny's albums is like eating whitebread.... You ate something, but you'll be hungry again soon for something more substantial. Idk., Prince, Al Jaerreau are for some reason better at kneading my synapses. And I think it's because of all these small little things adding a tad of grain on top of the music: Things being slightly out of pitch or rhythm.
"Now" is another word that lazily gets rhymed with itself.
@@Mr_Bollie I find much of Lenny’s music just falling short; from the writing to the production. It’s like soul-lite.
@@paulburns1333 how?
@@SeekerGoOn2013 rubber soul never gets old
I had read years ago that Elton John's piano sound is recorded with 3 different layers - one just slightly out of tune higher than the original and one slightly lower than the original and it's why his piano sounds sooooo HUGE!! It actually sounds like 3 different pianos are playing exactly the same thing at exactly the same time.
Plus two LA2A's at once!
This was very illuminating. Restored my faith in my own vocal abilities.