Stone Maintenance - Flattening and Conditioning Sharpening Stones
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 มิ.ย. 2020
- Loose Silicon Carbide grit aka Rock tumbling grit. Can be found on eBay and Amazon
Stones used -
Shapton Pro 120 grit
Shapton Pro 320 grit
Shapton Pro 1000 grit
Shapton Pro 2000 grit
Shapton Pro 5000 grit
Shapton Pro 8000 grit
Shapton Pro 15000 grit
I start out with a coarse 60/90 grit, and flatten each stone, on a sheet of glass, sprayed with water. Once that is done, I take the stones, and texture the surface with 120/220 grit. I then texture the 2k-15k on 500 grit.
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Nice demo Jeff, and a nice set of stones.
Thanks.😀
🙏 thanks!
Excellent video. Thanks for sharing the process and knowledge!
Thanks for checking it out 👊👍
Cool video. I flattened so many Arkansas stones this winter that I dished a piece of plate glass on both sides. Every stone I own is now flat.
Nice! You must have went thru a bunch! I’ve only dished two sheets of glass so far (both sides). Mainly from using very coarse grits like 36 and 48. At least with arks, they stay flat for awhile. You sound be good for a spell 👌
Well conceived and executed. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for watching 🙏
This is really good for folks new to sharpening. Brother you are way neater than I am. I make a huge mess when I use SiC powder, so much so that I’ve had to do it outside. I even have one of those EdgePro round glass plates with the rubber ring around it, still make a mess. It’s now too hot to do it outside, so I’m back to my worn diamond plate at the kitchen sink.
Oh i usually make a mess too. Recording has a way of making me do things slower, and neater 😂. My counter is usually covered in this mess.
Nice demo Jef as usual! 👊🏻
Thank you sir! Hope you and your fam are doing well!
I love it! My stone collection just disappeared. My godson was playing around and broke my sharpening shelf. Let's just say I have no more sharpening equipment just a bunch of broken tiles.
Ohh noo! That sucks man. Well i will be doing my gaw later this week. Giving away an m2 Gritomatic sharpener. Comes with sic stones i believe. Maybe lady luck will be with ya after that disaster 👍. Keep an eye out for that video
@@Jef I wouldn't miss any of your videos. I cried the most when I saw my natural translucent Arkansas stone broken into a million pieces. I'll keep an eye out for the video. Wish you the best and keep doing what you're doing for the hobby. Take care mate.
Thanks so much for this. Worth gold.
Glad it was helpful!
Great vid 👍 thanks
Thanks for watching 👌🤘
Jef Jewell - Always, every one! Question: would mirror work?
You bet. Mirrors are just glass, with a thin sheet of reflective stuff behind them. I've seen Stafan Wolf use the back of a ceramic tile before. I've heard you can do it on granite and marble, but I imagine it will wear quickly, since it is an abrasive.
In terms of convenience, the atoma diamond plates are the best, but will eat away more of your plates over time. This method although takes a bit more patience will make your plates last literally 2-3x longer.
In terms of convenience, yes atoma is faster, and cleanup/setup is easier. That’s about the only benefit i can see. 👍
Just a little word of advise .... some of these glass table tops are hardened and tempered and can disintegrate quite dramatically when you try to cut them, due to all the stress built in by the toughening process. Just be aware of the possibility and wear appropriate gloves and eye protection. If it blows on you, no problem, just find another piece of glass ;
Never had that happen, yet, but nice to know it may. Thank you 🙏
Just hit the like button then watch the video, I already know I'm going to enjoy it.😁
😛 thanks man 🤘
Hey Jef. Thanks for this tutorial.
In my country I couldn't find mixtures of 60/90 and 120/220.
All I was able to find is:
F80, F150, F240, F320, F360, F500 and other grits.
So my question is: would it be okay to use only F80 for shaptons 120-320?
Also should I make a mixture of F150 and f240 (I couldn't find 120/220 grit) to use on 1k, 2k, 5k, 8k or I can use only my F240 or should I use F150 better?
Thank you!
F80 should be fine to flatten anything 800 grit or higher. Hell i would start with that on most my stones, and just work my way up. Makes things so much faster 😁
I would not mix the grits you have. Keep them pure. The most likely reason they rate mine like 120/220 is to let you know there maybe finer particles inside the mixture. Not just pure 120. Regardless, i say experiment with the ones you have. Don’t mix em. If you feel the texture is still too coarse, go to 360 or even 500. Play around with them and find what works for you! 👍
Jef, just watched 2 of your videos and of all I've seen, you make the most sense. However, I've not seen anyone describe how to condition oil stones, which you talk about. I have a couple of my dad's very old oil stones I want to start using. Do I need to get rid of the old oil built up in these stones before using your method of conditioning? Or can I just put these old stones to the grit, using water, to flatten and condition them?
Conditioning them with loose silicone carbine powder will probably reveal to you that they are no longer flat. In which case, you will need to completely flatten, and then condition them. Doing so will remove all that build up on the top surface. Using water during the flattening/conditioning stage is not a problem. There is no need to degrease the stones first.
You can start using water, oil, or any mixture you like, once you have them flattened, and conditioned. If you want all the oil removed however, and use strictly water, it will need to be degreased. That is a process i can’t describe fully to you, as i never bother. The mixture i use is one part dish soap, one part baby oil, and four parts water. Bc there is already oil in the stones, and i am using a mixture with oil, i see no reason to fully degrease them.
If that is your goal, there are other channels on youtube that show the process. Although the guy hates me, rough rooster knife sharpening, has several videos dedicated to this very procedure. Don’t tell him i sent you though, cause you’ll just get an earful of hate, about how awful i am 😂
Check out my video on coarse stones, where I show several saturated with oil, that were soaked in water.
th-cam.com/video/V-qGMGisurQ/w-d-xo.html
@@Jef No, I don,t want to degrease them. Just get them flat and ready to work. I've seen Rooster's videos and had a hard time keeping tuned in. Thanks for the help.
@@michaelkarp4565 Yea no need to degrease. Just use water on the glass, and loose sic powder, and go to town.
Great video Jef, just what I've been looking for regarding my growing collection of Shapton pro stones.
My only question is, assuming the glass will wear down unevenly fairly quickly, do you think granite or quartz slab offcuts might be an option? I can access free/cheap chunks of stone worktop offcuts quite easily. Thanks man.
As long as they are flat they should be fine. Just take a straight edge and verify. Granite will wear quicker than glass, so keep an eye on it with use. I’ve seen other folks use the back of ceramic tiles. I’ve personally used the floor of my old garage.
@@Jef Ah right, maybe I'll stick to sourcing sheet glass then. Thanks for the reply, you've saved me a fair bit of money I reckon 😉
@@jonbray6861 i just nab it from people throwing away old furniture. coffee tables, end caps, hell even the glass doors on those old entertainment centers work. it isn't hard to get your hands on, if ya spend a couple hours, driving around some apartment complexes. there the is always lowes/home depot. can just go buy a sheet, but who wants to spend money?
@@Jef That sounds like a good idea 👌🏻 Ordered an assortment of 3 different silicon carbide powders last night, so I should be good to go! Cheers
Hi Jef. I am trying to find a way to true several ceramic blocks my dad had, looks like he was going to make sharpening stones from them.The blocks still have saw lines in them, do you think this method will due the job or do I need to get more adgressive?
It should but it is slow with ceramic. Flattening my spyderco ultra fine took approx an hour. I had to refresh the grit multiple times bc it breaks it down do quickly. If you have access to diamond power tools, they maybe a better option
Does this degrade the glass reference surface at all? I'm wondering if I can do this on my granite reference plate, or if it will make the reference plate out of true.
Yes, after prolonged use, even the glass gully’s a bit. What do you do? Flip it over or get a new piece. Takes awhile but a straight edge can show you what is happening.
Granite can be used, but i feel, since it too is stone, it’ll abrade quicker than glass. If you just want a cheap alternative, i would point you towards a ceramic tile. Flip it on the back side and you may not even need sic powder. Granted the surface may not get conditioned, but it will keep the stones flat.
I find my glass as throw away objects at apt complex’s, i have pretty much garnered a lifetime supply at no cost
Ciao,ho una shapton 1000 e una 4000,posso usare sempre la polvere al carburo di silicio da 220 x tutte e due? grazie
sì. la superficie sarà ruvida, ma si ammorbidirà dopo aver passato il coltello su di essa alcune volte.
Is there anything extra I would need to do while lapping spyderco ceramics? I purchased a well used set for really cheap and I want to make them usable.
Just a piece of glass, and some loose SIC. That's all ya need. If ya want to make the surface texture smoother, get several grits. I tend to use 69, 120/220. For the fine stone I also use 400.
fyi those ceramics are incredibly hard. You will have to rinse and refresh the grit, multiple times. See my video on lapping the Venev stones for reference. They are almost as bad.
th-cam.com/video/WGwOPv3yN-E/w-d-xo.html
@@Jef Thanks. I just added the SIC to my cart. Your insight and information is incredible.
The easiest way mate. I recently checked my kitchen sink pluming - no sediment in the pipeline.
Stefan ,can i use a ceramic tile instead of glass, and say 280 sandpaper ( i don't have the powders )?
Stefan - that’s good to know. I’m always worried about that. Truthfully, i occasionally drop mine in the sink as well, but lately i have been trying more often, to spray it in the bin first.
@@rauliorga3823 you can, buy drywall mesh sandpaper - 60, 80 grit too - it works pretty well
Raul- I’ll let Stefan answer you if he is so inclined, but in my experience, sandpaper glazes the stones surface. It will flatten ok, but the conditioning of the surface suffers. The powders are very cheap. You can get a 4 set of rock tumbling grit for as little as $10 on eBay. It will last awhile, as long as you use it sparingly.
I’ve seen others use the back of tiles, with good results. With and without powder
@@Jef thank you very much, i will just use the ceramic tile as it's glossy and flat, and buy some powders based on the grits used in your video.
Recently purchased a Loose Grit SiC (80grit) and pickup some unused glass in the junkyard. All my stones are dead flat and my KME medium-fine stone now sharpens (glazed the surface with sandpaper)
Now I'm excited for 220 and 600 grit Loose SiC.
Awesome to hear. Loose Sic is the best choice, imo, for stone maintenance
Amazing job Jeff, can you please do a similar video with the Arkansas stones?? I really want to begin reconditioning my stones the same manner. Did you list the different type of grit with the silicone powder??
I briefly put it in the description. Went over it in the video as well.
how many knives can i sharpen on a stone with 1000 grit approximately how many knives ????
It’s different for each stone. I usually get 5-6 sharpening before i feel the need to flatten
Can you flatten Arkansas stones like this? Mine aren`t worn yet but I worry about it xD
I should remember to watch your videos till the end before asking questions xD thanks for the video Jef, you are honestly the best teacher I have found on YT so far when it comes to sharpening, you made me a much better sharpener!
@@ArikGST lol no worries man! I was asked to do an Ark in another post, so I plan to show some of that. As hard as they are, I tend to start on like 46 grit, then work to 60/90 and take it from there. Appreciate the props! From what I have seen from your videos, and IG, your sharpening is quite good! Your bevel consistency is nice, and sharpness is on par with my own. Have a good weekend!
Why dont you just use a diamond plate fore sharpening? At list the lower grit? I thought to buy the kuromaku 2000 but now i think im better get a diamond plate. Why should i consider a ceramic plate or a traditional water stone?
Personal preference. Id advise trying both; a diamond plate and a water stone. See which you like. I don’t like diamond, because they remove too much steel from the knife. Some will lead you to belive, YOU MUST USE diamond, for super steels. This is not always the case, and anything a diamond stone can do, i can get better results with a silicone carbide stone. Ask yourself too, does this person have skin in the game? That is, are they selling a product? Again, not always the case, but I’ve seen it.
@@Jef thank you for the response!
I have victorinox ceramic sharpening rod, and it held 6 years without dishing. It there any bench stone like this? Can you recommend a bench stone for touch ups, that will not dish?
Spyderco ceramics. Medium fine and ultra fine 👍
@@Jef thank you!
When you say your 1k is conditioned to 220 is it no longer a 1k grit?
No. Just the surface texture is very coarse. It smooths out after about two three solid sharpening
@@Jef ok thanks for the info and great video 👍
Are diamond plates not good for flattening?
Sure, but they wear the plates out. Not to mention they dont condition the surface texture. On an Ark or oilstone, they feel glazed after diamond flattening. Besides, if i spend money on diamonds, i want em for sharpening, not flattening.
@@Jef oh okay I was just wondering cuz usually I see people flattening/lapping stones with the diamond plates
Sure and I even do it too! When I am lazy, or don't want to disturb my neighbors at night. It's just not my preferred method
Jeff,
How long does the glass stay flat?
Aaron
Sorry i thought u were talk. About the shapton glass stones 😂
The glass I’ve never really measured. It lasts a long time unless you use really coarse grit often. Like 36-90. Usually a sheet will get me through half a year before i flip it and use the other side.
@@Jef I'm kinda hype about this loose silicon grit. I conditioned my KME medium-fine ceramic using 80grit sandpaper and it makes my stone glaze instead cutting the steel
@Aldrin Rubrico I've heard varying reports using sandpaper. There are others who swear it conditions their stones. I have used multiple brands, at very coarse grits, and have always experienced a glazed surface afterwards. Nothing, imo, can match loose sic powder. It is messy, but it is cheap, and can be used to flatten, any stone.
@Jef Jewell I have good feedback on sandpaper when conditioning/flattening on soft, muddy stone like makita 1200 harder than that it just turn my stone to useless.
Maybe due to SiC on the sandpaper will round overtime unlike loose SiC it will turn, tumble, and crush exposing some sharp SiC when use.
Stefan Wolf use it often to condition all his stones
I know this video is a tad old but I recently purchased a 4000 and 8000 grit shapton glass stone, and they certainly recommend flattening them prior to each use however their diamond plate they sell is absurdly costly at over $300-400 and I did some research and found the Atoma 400 should be apt, can you by any chance confirm this?
You do not have to flatten then after every single use. Shapton are hard and maintain shape extraordinarily well. You Should be able to sharpen a good 6+ knives on em, before you need to consider this. Hell I’ve done a dozen and still had decent flatteness. On that note, if you are going to use a diamond plate to flatten, get the atoma 140. It’s coarser and Will do a faster job. They sell cheap diamond plates at chef knives to go, in the 80 and 140 grit range as well.
Btw flattening before/after each use wears the stones faster. You have to replace them more often, doing so. This is why Shapton recommends it. They make more money
@@Jef I read more comments after this and noticed that this method gives more use out of the block, I am very new to this, like extremely so thanks for the info and I have decided to use the method in the video to extend the longevity of my blocks. What grit of Silicon Carbide for the aforementioned blocks do you recommend? I noticed you used a finer grit on your finer grit blocks as well.
I believe i started with 120/220, and the finer stones, i took to 400/500 grit.
Many loose silicone carbide powders, are sold in sets, of four grits. If you just prefer to buy em all separately, maybe grab 96 grit, 120, and 500. They are all capable, but 96 helps speed things up. Otherwise, just snag the 120/220 and 500. Those should get you where you need to go, with little fuss 🤘
@@Jef So just to confirm, 96 grit is fine on the finer blocks and won't damage it?
wouldnt that remain in the stone pores?
On a microscopic level perhaps? I’ve never seen an issue in the ten years I’ve been doing it. Anything is possible i suppose. 🤷♂️
@@Jef nice, im trying it! I was affraid cause in the user manual it says taht you shouldn use water sand paper cause it will fill the pores and leave the stone useless, but i dont have enough money to buy the shapton lapping plate XD Thanks for the video!
No prob. Just rinse it well and you shouldn’t have issues. I’ve never seen any
I tell them to lie down back and lie flat. Oh yeah the stones i use a atoma 140 diamond plate 😂🤣
😂 diamonds just dont condition the surface well.
@@Jef if you tell them to behave they work good hehe
If you will use a figure eight pattern it will give better results.
Better? I've never seen any difference in terms of flatness from any direction.