INCREDIBLE 1x12 gravel performance on a budget - L-TWOO GRT
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มิ.ย. 2024
- The new L-TWOO GRT, an incredible value gravel groupset, but is it worth considering over Shimano and SRAM?
SIROKO CLOTHING - 10% off (automatically applied via link below): srko.co/tracevelo
In late 2022, a chinese manufacturer called L-TWOO debuted their brand new, and pretty groundbreaking series of hydraulic disc brake groupsets. They offer incredible shifting and braking performance, for a fraction of the price of the big brands like Shimano, SRAM, and Campagnolo. I have been using their RX 2x12 road bike groupset for the last few weeks, and the performance on the road is very impressive.
In this episode I will be installing and testing their new GRT 1x12 gravel groupset on my carbon gravel bike. It looks incredible, and has some very impressive specs, including carbon fibre brake levers, fully hydraulic disc brakes, and a clutch mechanism on the rear derailleur to prevent chain drops.
I go through the whole install from start to finish, give my thoughts on the groupset, discuss the cost and weight, and finally hit some gravel trails to put it through its paces.
Bleeding RX Groupset: • Oil brake injection tu...
Timestamps:
00:00 - Start
01:11 - Intro
02:33 - L-TWOO GRT overview
04:52 - Installation
06:05 - Bottom Bracket issue
08:44 - Giant Conduct brake removal
10:53 - Brake install
12:19 - Shifter install
14:38 - Fitting brake lines
15:54 - VG Sports cassette problem
19:30 - L-TWOO GRT - 2 small issues
21:57 - L-TWOO GRT - The good stuff
24:35 - Cranksets snapping!?
26:38 - Bonus crash test
Please note:
I am not a professionally trained bike mechanic. There can be risks associated with using products that are unbranded, untested, or come from sources where the provenance is unknown.
Please talk to a qualified bike mechanic if you are in any doubt.
In essence, be careful, do your research, and cycle safe!!! - กีฬา
*VG SPORTS CORRECTION!!* So massive thank you to Luuk Rutten and others in the comments for pointing this out. For the VG sports cassette I actually needed to use a spacer behind the Cassette to make it function! 🤦♂Apologies to VG Sports, I'll quickly throw together a video explaining this later!
I'm a former race mechanic and a former mechanic for Trek bicycles, the spacing issue isn't uncommon. There are several companies that make spacers for that issue. It's really just from the cassette being built for a broader tolerance, some 10 speed cassettes don't have the same width as 12 speed so my guess is that it was built for the older spacing. To be honest there's been so many spacing changes over the last ten or so years that even I have a hard time keeping up with all of them.
Yeah, it is a mtb cassette for hg a road hg 11s freehub is longer so the freehub is longer than the cassette that is why its loose.
Got to say that was a little too harsh on VG (perhaps a little too quick to jump to criticism based on the past experience)
Bit sloppy there Trace 😁
Good on you, Luke. Those natural and spontaneous reactions make your content so much more engaging and, of course, you offer a fulsome explanation and apology if you get it wrong…like that shifter lever issue where you missed the adjuster screw😂
No one is perfect, keep learning new stuff, share it, learn more new stuff! Love the content you're making, don't sweat the occasional mistake, just share what you found out in the next video.
Also forgot to mention, the small issue that I had with the RX road version of this groupset (where the shift lever didn't return fully, sometimes blocking a shift with the thumb trigger), it's not present here at all! The shifting is basically perfect 👌🥖🥖🥖
On the back of that, Luke- did you work out whether the shift lever could be moved away from the brake lever using the grub screw on the underside?
I keep looking at mine, and wondering....
**EDIT
Answering my own question: on the R9 11 speed from L-Twoo, a 1.5mm hex key on the grub screw will move the shift lever away from the brake lever.
also do note i mentioned this before.
my sensah/senicx crank i replaced the bottom bracket also i had 600miles clocked before i had clicking cranks under pressure.
spent money on a nukeproof horizon one with titanium coated bearings been solid so far and chainreaction sell the bearings. not the cheapest but 800 miles later still no issue.
and yeah for cassette wobble you need a 1.85mm spacer on your road hub to fit an mtb cassette. I had this issue when i first built my sensah 11 speed groupset
also congrats on removing the conduct kit now you can get a fancy chinese carbon stem
PS , Peak Torque TH-camr makes an adapter that lets you mount hydraulic flat mount brakes with 180mm rotors , he also UK based
It's a quirk of the Campagnolo mechanism - same thing happens on my Ekar 1by13 shifter if the levers are depressed at the same time.
Mine are fine in the RX version. Maybe it is just not consistent from unit to unit ? Also mine don't rattle, I checked it. Mine are faultless except for the shifting performance, which is overall ok but no super crisp in all gears, it tends to be a little more lousy in the small cogs.
I'm sorry about the crash, glad you are ok. Could you possibly use the R9 lever as a temporary replacement? Curious to see if the epoxy repair job comes along as nicely as expected. Ciao! 🥖
Hi luke, just a quick tip from a bike mechanic here ;), when working with hydraulics (especially bleader/removing a hydraulic system) take your wheels out the bike, and take the pads out. Then if some brake fluid spills, you dont ruin your pads/rotors. If you dont plan to reuse those, it does not matter ofcourse ;)
The cassette issue is simple enough. You are required to use the 10 speed spacer, required for mounting 10speed on 11 speed road bodies. The spacing of this 12sp cassette is based on the 10sp mountainbike body, which basically still is the same as the old 10speed road body. Mountainbike cassettes never required an upgrade of the spacing since the larger cogs can overhang on the spokes ( if the wheels are properly dished ). This means 11 speed mountainbike cassettes fit 10speed bodys ( also road bodys ) and so do the 12 speed cassettes. I am sure you have one of those spacers somewhere.
exactly! I was curious about this one too, since it means I can get a 12 speed cassette on my old 'mtb'
This is btw a great hack for using your older 10 speed wheels on modern 11 speed groupsets. Buy an 11-34 SHIMANO CS-HG700 which fits older style 10 speed wheels. Beware that most other 11 cassettes ones wont fit on 10 speed.
@@luukrutten1295 (edited) it seems that indeed the 105 r7000 11-34 has a removable spacer, so it can fit 10 speed hubs! That's very cool obscure knowledge, thank you sir. I might try it out to play with different gearing on my 26 incher
Also seems like the ultegra HG800 one has the removable spacer. I've got that one laying around, so I might try it soon
Right ok. I did think think this myself actually, so as you suggested, I slapped a spacer behind the VG sports cassette. It mounted fine, but the indexing was WAY off, and the shifting was terrible. Then with the SRAM PG 1230 cassette on the same HG freehub (it's a bog standard 11 speed HG freehub btw), no spacer needed, and the shifting was perfect... I was pretty sure SRAM and Shimano 12 speed cassettes were interchangable...? (EDIT - *I was wrong!* 🤦♂shifting is actually fine - See pinned comment)
1st thought i had,put in a spacer
Great episode Luke, good to see they stepped up the game with solid disc brakes and improved derailleur set up over the GR9. The thumb lever is in a better location over the GR9 and drops multiple gears at a time. 🥖🥖🥖
Great stuff Luke. The larger numbers on the adapters are for mtbs as they start with 160's where as road bikes start at 140, hence the 20mm difference.
Really appreciate all your effort on making videos through the years on products that are easily dismissed by most youtubers. Bless you sir!!
Howdy, thanks for the great content. I just installed a 2x11 sensah group set for my old bike. Works like a charm!!
What did you go for?
Another entertaining and informative video mate. I really enjoy your reviews of alternative equipment.
The video that I was waiting for 👌
Another OUTSTANDING video, from Trace Velo!!
I'm really sorry about the crash, but also glad you're okay! Those deep ruts can be nasty. I've found moving my center of gravity a little bit back on the saddle helps me keep the steering steady on rough roads. I'd like to see how you go about getting a new brake lever, because I haven't seen any spare parts from L-twoo. Anyway, those cranks seemed a little bit too hollowed out to me, sadly, they were. In my experience the only way to get super stiff, reliable and light cranks is carbon. Aliexpress has been showing me some lovely looking carbon cranks from Racework, maybe they're worth checking out. Altough I got older Sram Force gxp cranks second hand very cheap, and they're amazing.
My eyes light up when i see you have posted another video Luke. Love your videos, and you are a very talented lad.
Always entertaining and informative!
Many thank Luke, very entertaining!!! Good you’re fine after getting off your bike. 👍🏻
True to your word Luke, thanks for including the shimano / sram equivalent pads that fit!!
And another amazing video from Luke. I got to say man you have become my favorite bike TH-camr. By far the most entertaining one and just spitting amazing review videos.
Great show always a good watch 🤘🏼
loving the work and damn, you would think that the redemption cassette would be checked before shipping! always fair to give a chance and the real time footage guides are so helpful.
youve mentioned that the groupset shifts smoothly and quietly, would you praise the cassette and/or chain?
im so sorry to see the crash!! so glad to see you didnt get hurt, unlike my face...thank you for the shout out!! got another week to recover but nearly there! really helps with confidence so thank you!
Was looking forward to the groupset for a potential on a cyclocross bike, after seeing how easily the shifter snapped off I think its a big swerve from me especially for a cross groupset.
Sometimes the disk brake mounting adapters can be flipped the other direction to fit either 140 or 160 (or 160/180). The other orientation might put the caliper closer or further relative to the wheel hub.
Another great video, bud!
Excellent video, Luke
as usual awesome content , i'm so confident your content i liked it 1st before watching it .
WOW, the colour saturation & lighting was amazing when you got onto the ride revue. The gear looks pretty good too 😁
I LOVE the ZTTO 10-52 12speed cassette! I bought it for my winter alu wheelset for my XC MTB. I have the SRAM XX1 oilslick one on my summer carbon wheelset, but they look and work the same. The weight difference is minimal too!
Top vid , appreciate your honesty
W⚓️
I had the same issue with a sunshine 11s 11-42 cassette. I ended up using the 10s spacer at the back of the cassette. Enough space left for the lock ring to go in. All working fine now
thought about grabbing a set of those cranks. Thanks for the PSA!
Another mint video, thanks dude
I really like your content! I cant wait to see you reach 100K subs!
Nice video ! To adjust the stroke of the brakes, you can push out the pistons a little bit and decrease the distance between the disc and the pads. you remove the wheel and you activate the brakes, you have to be careful not to press too much to be able to put the wheel back on
new subscriber here from philippines trace... enjoy watching this episode.
Great news, Luke! I was waiting this video to crack on and to replace my 105 hydrolic groupset. Thanks, mate! I hope China cycling is watching this video, because he wasn't fully satisfied with this groupset. 😉
Great video! Love the 1x12 group sets. Giving the Ratio update a go for SRAM mullet. I’ve tried fixing carbon/plastic shifter cracks in the past, with no success. The epoxy is strong, it just can’t adhere well enough. Will be interesting to see how you make out!
You can take apart the BB cups sing a gas torch and replace the bearings (if thy come in a standard size). Nice videos!
Great vid as always Luke both informative and entertaining. Outstanding dedication taking this one to another level with real world product destruction testing, impressive but hope you’re ok. Great to be able to track the journey with LTwoo group sets. 🥖 🥖🥖
That chainstay design on the blue bike looks marvellous.❤
I think the 160/180 markings depend on what was the baseline setup. If the bike was designed for 140 originally it would (and did) support the 20mm larger 160. Had your bike come with 160s, the 20mm would have supported 180mm rotors
Hi Luke, about the caliper adapters, 140/160 means it's for 140 front and/or 160 rear. 160/180 means for 160 front and/or 180 rear, so you can use the same adapter for rear or front depending on the rotor size
I'm not sure if it's that. The front one is usually reversible, but the rear is not (brake mounted directly to the frame). At least on my Cannondale. I think it might be related to some gravel bikes using the same adapters with a 20mm offset. Like using a 140mm adapters to use 160mm rotors, and 160mm adapters to use 180mm rotors, as AFAIK the flat mount standard only supports 140 and 160mm.
@@endianAphones That might true though, I don't have any experience with flat mounted frames, but it's common with these chinese adapter products using codes like that, usually for MTB that often uses big rotors than road bikes
@@endianAphones I think you're right, because the common adapters I was talking about are usually coded F140/R160, F160/R180, and so on
Sorry about that crash. Great video. We need a video on that wheelset pronto! 😜
Great review. As others have said, this really is what the market needs. For the bottom bracket, you can actually extract the bearing from the cup and press a new one in (if you really are on a budget - or simply can't find a replacement). I've done that myself - it's a faff but worth trying. 🥖🥖🥖
Sorry you fell and glad you didn't get hurt. I fell on my gravel bike once and smashed my knee cap. Couldn't ride for a few months. I love your pet duck you brought along for the ride!
sweet job with the video
I still use the hard rock CVR crankset with the aluminium spindle 2-3 years later still going strong!!
I basically stopped riding with heavily flared bars because of what happens whenever you crash like you did... After snapping two levers I went back to regular(ish) bars and never looked back.
Glad you're OK though
Yo luke, if you reverse the mounting plates for the calipers, the size will differ. Use the 160 side & you move the rotor placement to accept the 180 disc. Switcheroo does it bro. Hope it makes sense
Love the video, love Trace. Best production quality this side of Rides of Japan.
One note on the snapped lever... I noticed when you initially set up the levers, they were sitting a good bit outside the curve of the drops... Do you think that could have contributed to the lever not being protected by the bars and snapping off?
It's funny you should say this. I think because of the content and lukes presentation and humour its easy to miss how damn well made the videos are.
I had a different road crankset by Goldix and after maybe 200km the right side pedal came out and taking all the threads with it. It was tightened for sure and not cross threaded. I had to peel all the threads off the pedal axle in fact. Also super flexy.
Hell yeah, production quality increasing
I just order the same group set,really exciting to install them on my bike!
and a reminder: ltwoo grt 1x12 group set of alloy version is 500rmb lower than the carbon version in the video.
Another great video! Have you done a video on those stunning wheels?
glad you're OK.
I've been using the GRT groupset now for about 6 months, mostly pretty happy. I went with the aluminum version. The shifting took some getting used to after years on Shimano style, and after a while I really don't mind the difference. Shifting from the drops is easier with GRT than my R7000 for me at least. The shifting mechanism is not as crisp or refined feeling as Shimano, and the upshift has some phantom half-click feelings that can result in not shifting, or getting a double shift if you are not intentional. Braking has been issue free. The left lever has a void where guts would have been, and I wish they filled that up so your left hand sits on the hood just a little different than the right. The "butter zone" for the rear barrel adjuster just a tiny couple click region, and if I did it again I would add an inline adjusted at the front so I could adjust while riding. Overall it does what I needed with minimal fuss, and made for a nice build I don't mind getting muddy or beat up.
Great vids very informative cranks
These groups you have been showing are really coming along quickly! Hope the keep the prices down
Be nice to see you review the aluminum version of these shifters, see if they are any more durable.
Thanks Luke! Would love for you to make a foray into hardtails and MTB groupsets...
Gravel bike is looking tasty, so is the quality of the content Luke puts out 🥵 Baguettes on deck for this video 🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖
Love the bonus clip! Thanks Luke!
P.S. do you have a Patreon or something of the kind where we can support you directly?
Unlucky with the crash and glad you're okay. My impression of that was lack of grip at the side of the tyre. You hit an off-camber rut and it sent the tyre sideways. I have done the same in the wet. It is most likely the result of over-inflated tyres, which can bounce off and be deflected by off-camber edges. You need less air in your tyres to allow the tread to distort and grip the side of the rut rather than ping off them. 25-30 psi is the best pressure for gravel I reckon plus get tyres with reasonable grip at the side.
Brake caliper spacers are 140/160 for the minimum size rotor the mount is designed for (either 140 or 160mm depending on the frame) and the 160/180 is to go from minimum 140mm to a 160mm, or from minimum 160mm to a 180mm rotor.
Came here to say this. That’s exactly what it is.
Cracking review, nice work. Shame about the off. Yeah it happens and it's always a concern about parts being trashed over bodily harm when we all hit the dirt/black top 😀
Test pilot that we admire
Thank you very much Luke for this very detailed and interesting video. Once again an amazing job. As mentioned, you are using a BH59 hose, could you please explain why BH59 over a BH90 ? is there any kind of compatibility issue or is it a performance related reason ? Thank you very much for your videos and long live the baguette !!!
Now that you've gone full time pro, I'd love to know more about your workspace. I like the sound deadening foam, the lobster pic, how you've arranged your tools, the green lighting. So what's next?
I've has similar problems with Shimano cassettes in the past, usually a spacer sorts it. But you got that sorted already! 😁😁😁
I think the adapters are numbered both ways as it depends what size rotors your fork/frame is designed to run eg most suspension forks are designed around a 160 rotor, but some are designed for a minimum 180mm so the adapter to take them up to 203 is different to allow for the difference in the frame/fork.
Greetings from the Philippines!
Glad you're OK!
Nice work! Always enjoy your videos.
one of the best tools for cleaning dirt and old grease out of small components like bearings, chains, and cassettes is an ultrasonic cleaner you can get them on amazon and you can just set your stuff in it, turn it on and forget out it!
The crap getting in and not getting out is an issue also with original SRAM bottom bracket. I have also the same issue with wheels and so. Solution (or kind of) ... drilling holes for things to breath and dry. Otherwise the water ends up destroying steel/aluminum axles, bearings, everything.
i like those quacks at the end
Baguette nation X Siroko when?
🥖🥖🥖 Here are the bagels you have requested on a previous video for that sick wheelset hahaha
Great quality as usual, keep up the good work!
wow beautiful ❤ groupset
very nice video. Thanks for that one! But i have a question: Does it just look like the front breaking hose is really really short so that it only can be installed to the left shifter?
Great video once again! BAGUETTE nation for the WIN!🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖
Thats a really fancy looking Bike, I hope it is still costing less and very affordable because I may be going the same route as you recommend, thanks for sharing your video
After I installed a 12(11-50) speed sensah/sunshine cassette(from using a 9speed). the rear chain line needed to adjusted. For me I needed to adjust the axle spacers to bring the Freehub closer to the frame. and true the wheel again.
That rear derailleur looks pretty i want one
Awsome video as always luke 🥖🥖🥖 we've all had a crash like that dude
Peter, if you read this, I hope you're recovering well 👍 As always, much love for the video Luke, thank you. Interesting to see some crash testing, I wonder how one of the big three would have survived that.
I've crashed my SRAM CX1/Force several times; other than some scratches, no issues.
Thank you Jon! Really appreciate it! fractured my whole right side but somehow, miraculously, im ok now, 5 weeks down the line?! time will tell! another week before return to the saddle!
@@boyacki sounds nasty 🫤 Glad it wasn't a whole lot worse though 👍
Love those wheels, would like to have a set of them in a rim brake version.
That crash test seems to explain part of the low price, I've crashed more times than I care to think about and my GRX600 is blemished but works as good as day 1.
Hopefully they will fix that in future iterations, having a good cheap groupset is a win win for everyone.
I crashed into a tree and hit my shimano 105 shifter really hard, The only issue i had was a broken shift cable.
yea my GRX and Rival groupsets on my gravel bikes have all taken a beating and still work like new. the only thing that happened was some scuffing on the shift lever where it hit the ground.
Shimano has the advantages that the levers rotate, so they should handle a lot more lateral stress. On the other hand my SRAM levers are like first gen 11 speed and they're fine... scratched, but fine.
As mentioned elsewhere it looks like you need a cassette spacer to go on the inside of the cassette. I have not worked out the circumstances for using them. It is generally written it is to put a 10 speed cassette on an 11 speed body, but I also think whether it is an MTB cassette also has some bearing here as well. I have 10 and 11 speed cassettes, some need a spacer, some don’t
The brake adaptor if used in the front is for 160mm rotor but if you use it in the back then you'll need to use 180mm rotors.
Another great video! Sucks about the crash. I'm running 10 speed GRX 400 alloy shift levers (converted to 1x). I've crashed on them numerous times and they've held up just fine. They're not the lightest, but the alloy shift levers are built tough. Just a bit of nail polish gel touches up all the scratches nicely! 🥖🥖🥖
Absolutely. A snapping lever is a big no-no on a bike, especially on gravel bikes. Maybe the carbon is in reality just ABS plastic with carbon print?
@@DilbertMuc The thing with gravel is that crashes/bike drops are more likely to happen. I'm guessing carbon fiber isn't a great material to use for a high impact component.
@@jonathan_f2 Yeah? Tell that Boeing and Airbus. Hopefully their stuff is better resistant to impacts. Don't wanna lose a wing in turbulance...
I guess the brake adapter numbering is because some forks are designed for 140/160 rotors while others are designed for 160/180 rotors. Same for the rear brake, some frames are designed for 140 while others are designed for 160. Depending on your fork/frame you´ll need different adapters in different orientations (or even no adapter at all) to use 140/160/180 rotors. Anyway, yes, the way they printed the numbers doesn´t help a lot.
Groupset looks amazing, and I love the detail that you present this. I would love to get one of these, but the price is starting to get a bit out of hand.
1 - I really don't like the campy style button.
2 - These appear to me at over 400€ (+23% custom tax), I can get SRAM RIVAL/FORCE AXS at around 750€ that are wireless...
I'm using the JFOYH CNC 11spd 11-36, so far love it. Less weight than GRX at only 239g with lock ring. We will see how long it lasts. 175g savings btw.!
thank you
u can get a water in the bb from your seatpost, the frame should have holes eg at the end of rear triangle to let it go
Thanks for this, and for the update about the Sensah. 🥖
Hey Luke, speaking about fork adapter - I’ve just installed my GRT and 160 adapter let me use 180 front rotor, and same happened with my previous TRP Spyre C adapters, so it depends on fork mounting holes position
Hey Luke, nice video
I've been looking at some wheels and hubs from jgbike and they are supposedly very good.
Since I am very insecure about my wheel / hub choice I kind of wanted to "request" / "suggest" a video on them maybe.
They are oriented more towards the mtb side (I want to ride them on my gravel bike), but it seems like a good option...
Great video as always,what size do you wear on your jacket and bib tights ? Is the sizing guide good .
Spacer behind the cassette for anything larger than 32t on a Shimano hub. Same thing happened to me with a 34t cassette in a Hunt wheel some years ago. Even Hunt didn't realise there was an issue. I did chuckle when I saw that on the video. I bet it's caught out a few home mechanics.
So it's safe to say you've been wooed by L-Twoo? This is a really intriguing groupset. I think I'm gonna finally try one of the groups you recommend. I'm looking to build up a commuter/bikepacking bike and this really looks worth a shot. Thanks for another great review!
Congrats on surviving the crash! A friend busted a GRX brifter, it was well over 300 US to replace.
Talking about breaking cranksets, I was standing climbing and broke the crank where the pedal went thru, and launched my self over the bars, catching and breaking my thumb on the hood, and landing on my feet on the road scuffing my forearm but not falling down.
I stop, and wonder why the pedal is still strapped to my foot, but Im not on the bike.
From there on out it hurt some. Somebody gave me a ride home, 1st car that came by.
Crash survivability is a major issue. I wouldn't want a lever to break on me on a multi-days bike camping trip out in the middle of nowhere with no transport back. I've crashed my Shimano Sora levers multiple times and it has always held up fine - the big lever also being a shift lever helps of course but it does go to show how robust Shimano's engineering is. Glad you're ok and got that on film, and I hope L-TWOO can come up with some kind of a response.