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You Can Forge a Knife Correctly [Here's How] !
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 เม.ย. 2022
- Install Mech Arena for Free 🤖 clcr.me/Thatworks_MA get a special starter pack 💥 Available for the next 30 days. Ilya shows you how to hand forge a bowie knife style blade by hand the right way. How to forge the plunge line and bevels and why you should do it that way with proper hammer technique. He then takes you to the classroom with lots of math to further your understanding of why this is correct and why you should forge with proper hammer strokes. Ilya also explains how the anvil effects your forging and when to use what parts of the anvil while forging your blade.
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Install Mech Arena for Free 🤖 IOS/ANDROID: clcr.me/Thatworks_MA and get a special starter pack 💥 Available only for the next 30 days. Thanks for watching! What points and tricks do you want us to cover next ?
One of these on grinding and finish work would be incredible!
Lies and propoganda!!!!!!
After your informative lesson, it looks to me that a power hammer "pinches" the hot steel to make a tapered edge or point... -- UNLESS using an angled head or anvil.
Apprentice: "Master, why do we do this?"
Ilya: "So glad you asked!" Gives lesson from intro to physics explaining force, normal force, conservation of energy and the mathematical definition of 'Work'.
Master blacksmiths for hundreds of years: "Because I bleeding well told you to, get back to work!"
There’s a time and place for both sides of the training regimen. Regardless of the field, novice’s need to know the basic of what to do to make it work, an intermediate needs to know the why we do what we do, and everything afterwards needs to on options for alternatives.
Like first aid, CLS, EMT, EMT-A, Paramedic.
Hey.. some of us need e refresher... We don't all have physics studied. And mastered like u do bud...
@@soonerfrac4611 Some people take to things better when they understand *why* they're doing it that way. An "expert" who refuses to explain the hows and whys comes off to some as "not as capable as they claim" even if that isn't necessarily the case. Meanwhile, a student who is taught those aspects won't be filling in the blanks with guesswork
@@InfernosReaperyes but also no. This is a whole load of bullshit that could be explained with zero mathetics or physics theory. Probably the biggest schlong stroke I've seen from Ilya. Cool bruh you're an academic...
@@InfernosReaper i mean, master blade smiths back then, master blade making through trial and error, they often don't really know the logic behind what they are doing, only that it worked, i mean, do you really think hardening and tempering of steel was found out by scholars, or people who did a lot of trial and error without understanding the microscopic details, like perlite and other lites in the steel?
He's not forging knives, he's forging smiths
That's the best kind of smith.
Good one! Both, and...
….as iron sharpens iron
He will smith
He is doing neither i didnt even bother finishing the video as the first 8 minutes are all entirely wrong
Ilya explained the kinetic energy and potential energy + other stuff in 10 minutes than my physics teacher in 6h! Well done mate, you explain in a way that catches your attention and gets you to understand the beauty of science and smithing! Just a great teacher
It could also be that it was explained in a way that had your full attention !
It’s like being back at school, but actually interested in what you’re being taught!
Who would have thought that smithing had so much physics behind it?
Thanks for the lesson.
The trades need to go back to high school and not just in Vo-tech classes.
I doubt viking blacksmiths really gave a fuck.
I figured everyone would have thought that actually
A master class from Ilya, what a dream ^^
I'd pay
Id give like, all the internal organs i dont need for lessons from ilya.
Too bad he doesn't know wtf he is doing
He lied
Dude you just keep commenting this on the video of an accomplished smith who has been doing this for over 20 years, has been forged in fire champion, runs a successful forge, and has won abs blade of the year. Just stop if you are looking at videos that show how to forge a blade your clearly the one that doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Wonderful video. This is why masters who work with their hands are some of the smartest people I've ever met. Moral: Never assume that the messy workman you're watching isn't as brilliant as the professor in front of the class.
very true!
As someone who works near master riggers, very true. People forget that "you know what you and you know what you were taught" (whether by someone else or experience). Just because someone doesn't know what you know, doesn't inherently mean they are stupid, they may just know stuff you don't. The world is vast and has many things to learn, it isn't necessarily all standardized to the same thing for everyone.
This was way more indepth than I was expecting and I was so happy. Ilya looked kind of excited to explain all of the physics involved and it was extremely informative.
He has been waiting for an opportunity to share this info for awhile!
I have watched countless blacksmithing videos, and read a bunch of books, and I have never seen this talked about. It makes a ton of sense, and is super valuable. Thank you
It is covered in some books for sure, but rarely!
And after 20 minutes of science class my ability to practice and improve, the skills I need to shape hot metal with a hammer, drasticly improved. Thank you for taking the time to teach us.
Thanks for watching!
This couldn’t have come at a better time… I’m currently waiting on my first own propane forge… I’ll be forging a lot of knives 😁
Let us know how it goes!
I love watching smithing channels, but this takes my understanding of it to another level. Thank you so much for the explanation. Now it actually makes sense, because you see some smiths work for weeks on a piece and it comes out average, and then someone who understands the proper use of the hammer and anvil, and they make an incredible item in a much shorter timespan. To shorten the whole thing down, thank you for the lessons, I look forward to more. 👌👌👌👍👍👍
More efficient forging means less time in the forge which translates to less decarb in your steel!
This pulls from multiple scientific fields. This is what makes blade/metalwork so cool its several kinds of science before it gets to be art.
exactly !
Brilliant video, there's not many videos putting science and math into blacksmithing. I never knew the rebound force caused the "banana" effect.
Again, great video and thanks for the explanation 👍
Thank you for watching Peter!
@@ThatWorks i really look forward to and enjoy watching your videos, I'm new to this and its very educational for me, thanks.
Rebound force does not cause the banana effect in steel... Think of hot steel like you would a muscle while you stretch one you compress the other so as you draw out one edge the steel on the reverse experiences compression ... Rebound force does nothing more than pop your hammer back up making forging more efficient by requiring less effort to lift the hammer from a dead stop
He literally just proved mathematically that it does???
@@jessebond4221 If you're still unconvinced, do an experiment. Place a coin on the anvil and hit your hammer next to it.
This…. All this… love this…. Someone showing you how to do a project is wonderful, that same person explaining the details of their choices so much the better, but that person giving full theory about exactly how the minute changes of form have impact and backing it up with raw theory, and tying that into the practical demonstration… that’s next level. Thank you Professor Ilya, I sincerely hope you will be willing to provide further lessons on this channel soon
WE will!
That was awesome, Ilya! I've never thought of that return force from the rest of the anvil face as the reason for blades warping up while hammering. It's makes perfect sense and you explained it very concisely! Thank you for the wisdom.
How smart do you have to be to explain the physics/math of proper hammer technique in a second language? Very impressive!
"it is middle school math"
Give yourself some credit there are many people who went through high school and don’t have a firm grasp on what you are explaining.
I am constantly blown away by this man; his knowledge, his intelligence, his creativity and his ability to impart this to you without coming across with a "holier than thou" attitude...thank you Maestro
Thank you so much for this. I have been trying for almost 30 years to figure a way to teach this to my classes. and I am very bad at math. I know what is happening because i am doing it and seeing it. but to show someone that does not understand has a difficult time grasping it. I get asked a lot from folks where they can find a huge anvil. and i always try to steer them to a small, faced anvil with very large mass. such as a stump anvil in a buried or rooted stump. When they see how much work can be done on such an anvil with properly radiused edges. they are astounded. Yes, large anvils are super cool. and have many advantages over a small anvil when someone knows how to use those advantages. but for most, they are not needed. The Luis and Clark expedition did most of their work for the entire voyage on a roughly 60 lb. stake anvil that they sledged into a stump when setting up camp. I show lots of folks the video " Making two blacksmith hammers for blacksmithing" By " Bertram-craft and wilderness" showing the use and how efficient a stump anvil can be compared to a treadle hammer. I don't know how many ties i have met students of mine years later. that are hunching over and using glancing blows. When I ask them why they are doing that instead of the way i taught them. the three most popular answers are. '1" I can't see that far. "2" I don't feel confident enough to swing big. and "3" I saw guys on TH-cam doing it. :( :( One of my teachers told me once that if you were wearing a fedora hat, that you should graze the brim with the hammer head on every stroke unless planishing. Again. Awesome video. Tom B. from ND.
It is the mass of the "anvil system" that does the job. [Anvil system] = base + anvil
@@ilyaalekseyev3589 Yes. Very much so.
This is why I love to watch That Works. You guys explain the reasons for what you're doing. From the grinding to the forging. Love the content guys.
Thank you Randall!
Thank you Ilya, I really do enjoy the Your Edge training vids and explanations. I look forward to the next one!
I love when Ilya gives these types of lessons. Always super informative and interesting.
I was so glad when he started pulling out physics and integrals. It's a VERY rare occurrence in fields mostly oriented towards manual labor and / or art. That's a go-to video for people saying "when am I gonna use all that in real life?". Things don't have to be separate, a theoretician benefits from real world insights and vice-versa, that's the mark of an accomplished craftsman. Hat's off.
thank you for teaching me a better way to set up my plunges.
You are welcome!
This was amazing and I hope you make a series out of it. So much value here.
That is one of the best laymen's physics explanation I've seen in a while.
Note: Although not all the terms and math were correct, I appreciate the effort !!!
Can you clarify the mistakes? Just for educational purposes. I'm 18 so I'm just figuring all this out 0w0
Layman’s terms LOL
I have a feeling like the ideal technique results in you not having to strain your mind as much focusing on the proper shot placement for your hammer, or making sure you don't mess up your plunge line with your file. it all just comes together very naturally. you weren't all that concerned filing after you'd don't the forging. i don't know how to explain it.
really excellent video. thank you for teaching new people so much.
Wow! I love seeing how much careful thought goes into your craft! Very impressive!
Saving this for my wife, who is trying to learn the craft
let us know what she thinks about it
You're explanation about how we need to take an small section to avoid strains, is simply the best! THX
Hey that's a great explanation ! I study blacksmithing in school in france and that helped me quite a lot to understand what was wrong with my technique, thank you so much !
Yea, I am going to have to rewatch this a few times, bit more than I was expecting for a refresher, havent forged in nearly a year due to schedule, just about to finish build my new forge in the next week or two. Good video, even if it went over my head on first view!
This has helped me with understanding what I'm doing when I forging more than anyone else explaining the issue ever. Thank you so much!
We hope it helps you grow in your smithing!
Great as always! Thanks to show that there is real science in this field. I will definitely work on other part of my anvil now! Will you do a video on proper technique for forged gard? How to minimise gap while forging and not destroying the blade along the process?
what do you mean a forged guard? An integral ?
@@ThatWorks I mean a piece different from the blade through wich the teng pass before the handle. And when I say forged it's opposite to milled or drilled. I tried it and I would definitely appreciate enlightenment on the proper techniques and order of steps to be efficient.
I love practical examples of complex math.
Thowing numbers at me doesn't help things make sense, but "this number is the hammer face, this number is it's weight" really works for me.
Thank you both for another amazing video! I learned a alot especially with the way it was shown then explained. I always look forward to the videos and watch each one multiple times.
Thank you! That means a lot to us!
Great stuff man, I'll definitely be applying some of this to my work
perfect!
this is amazing, I hope there's more like this in the future, would love to have a physics communicator incorporate some demonstration pieces
Learning so much. Wish I had seen this sooner
Thanks, I love it when someone breaks it down and explains what's going on!
That's what Ilyas do!
Greetings from Bavaria. The last time i got that much usefull informations was, when i read the german book: Der Schmied am Amboss (The blacksmith on the anvil) from Hundeshagen.
Great work. Yes .. clearly, the anvil takes the hammerforce and brings it to the whole blade which is really lying on it. So less area lying, more force at that point. Thank you... :)
Ah thanks for pointing that one out! I remember it has a lot of useful math in it!
Just amazing. And I laughed when Proffessor Ilya hid his phone after the commercial
Great math breakdown. I’ve got a double horn anvil, so I should probably start forging a bit more on the flat horn to help localize the forces. Good to know!
So this is that moment when our math teacher said that algebra could save our lives... or more like our shoulders.
Ilia you have to realize that doing the math on the hammer blows and the anvil reaction probably sent half the blacksmiths in America twinging into a single same-sex attraction. Just a twinge! Just a twinge. I myself will confess that when I saw what you did not fix on your anvil and why, nipples got a little hard. Not going to lie :-)
All joking aside thank you guys for doing this. You guys are doing amazing work. It's wonderful in educational to see you guys do everything you do. Keep it up. And thank you.
Other than that have a wonderful day
Indeed!
Engineers mind combines the understanding of how and why to practice. This was awesome.
thank you thank you!
Thank you so much for making this video. As someone who has been wanting to make my own knives for a while I've been massively hesitant due to not having any power tools nor the money to get them which has obviously been a big factor that has caused me to pretty much just write it off as not possible for me to do. But this gives me a lot of insight and hope that I can actually do this as someone who doesn't have all the fancy stuff others have and rather just some simple tools, steel, fire, and oil. I seriously can't express how helpful this is.
Thank you and you are welcome!
If you have a harbor freight or similar near you then stock removal will get you started ... A cheap angle grinder and an assortment pack of wheels, a 1x30 belt sander and belts, a cordless drill, a blow torch, some water, a pair of vise grips or pliers and some sandpaper are literally all you need to make an excellent knife ... Start with 1075 its the ideal beginner steel all together you can make your first 4 knives for around $150-175usd
This was very helpful thanks for sharing
Thank God Your Edge is back!!!
During the forging process, does the steel become compressed, or does the smith simply manage where the material is at any given moment? I've seen various answers from several websites: usually the question of compression is answered by referring to the elimination of voids or inclusions, but that doesn't answer whether the metal itself, in its crystalline structure, compresses - increases in density.
Also, I'd love to hear Ilya explain how the choice between casting, machining from a blank, or forging might create different properties in a blade.
Idea for a ThatWorks video: the same blade made from casting, machining, and forging - any observable difference?
Thanks!
This video is awesome. Nobody has ever talked about this on any video i have seen. Thank you
That is why we made it. I've even heard the opposite taught by some masters and it hurt our heads.
I started the journey of blacksmithing a short time ago. The plan was to make as many bottle openers, firepokers, s hooks and coak hooks, etc as humanly possible within a couple of months before I even attempted to make a knife. I hit short of my goals of 100 hand made pieces, but couldn't resist the temptation. I made my first knife almost exactly like this, and the results were incredibly satisfying. I am so glad that I pursued this craft, and I will always be chasing the next skill to learn in this craft. Blacksmithing will change my entire world, I can feel it's pull, no it already has changed things.
Thanks for sharing! Glad you chose this path! Stay at it and I look forward to seeing your work!
Always love and look forward to your videos. So informative, so much traditional knowledge mixed with modern techniques.
That's what we do!
I have to say I learned something today,and that's a good thing,because most days in my life I learn something new everyday, but unlike school,this is very useful information, and I have to say,your a pretty good teacher by the way,so Thanks man,I appreciate your time and knowledge, I hope you make more vids like these,because they are useful to me,again,thanx man
Matt doing the Macarena with a deadpan face 🤣🤣🤣
Also, an excellent lesson from Professor Ilya 😍
You are the only one that pointed that out
This was the most in depth information I have found on hammer technique. So thank you for that :)
THank you for watching and letting us know!
Excellent! Maths, physics, and forging... oh my! Great stuff and thanks for getting us to really think about what's really going on. Cheers!
Such an amazing explanation. Thank you!
Guys awesome stuff, loved the Physical science and trigonometry discussed for the explanation of why the warping happens and so forth. But some extra attributes like the extra exerted force when dropping the hammer onto the object, which is a lot more than the standard gravitational force exerted on the hammer to hit the object is a bit much to be ignored, also Sin 45 = 1/ √2, sin 60 = √2/2. But again thanks for the explanation because the manner in which we hit the objects and on what we hit it causes the object to take shapes we didn't intend. I think that's why dyes are so important and the last part of the video explained perfectly what to expect when using the anvil.
Great demo. I have long been an advocate of heavy hammers and the correct technique of hammering. Too many smiths pay no attention to hammer weight and technique. sizing the hammer to the work is critical for efficiency .My hat is off to you.
He didnt even get into what you are doing to the inside of your steel when you are pinching.
as a hobbyist blacksmith with a decent mathematical background this video was amazing, having an expert put it in a concise understandable lecture was an absolute treat :)
also just realized this is probably an underappreciated factor of having a power hammer(may i one day be blessed by the gods with one).... you can have 2 same size heads to make relatively no unwanted curving or unintended slipping forces 😵
@@youngiroh5011 quite true!
Best explanation ever! Thank you!
Thank you for sharing this .
this video is GOLD, thanks!
Genius!!!!! For the first time i have an ecuation for forging better!!! Thanks master Illya
Go watch a real master like joey van der steeg not this charlatan and ignore all the bullshit spewed in this video
I love this lesson. Thank you
Welcome to Smithing Academy. Senior Scholar Ilya Alekseyev will dispense his course now. I loved it and I understood everything, it's awesome.
One day we will indeed have such a place!
I come back to this one every once in a while.
Nice explanation brings me back the engineering school, all fully understandable. And yes the beauty of SI units, all relates.
Sometimes you cant just say how to do it, you have to know why!
Ilya manages to make physics both cool and useful!
I would have dream of having a physics teacher like you when I was in high school 🤩
He would give so much homework though
Absolute chads, sending lots of love from Mexico, don't stop uploading!
Thank you! We wont !
This was super enlightening
Yes!! Thank you so much for this!
Great content, liked and saved. Waiting for it to finish so I can download it.
excellent and thank you!
Genial. Clase maestro de maestros de. Verdad que. Eres. Un genio amigo ilya saludos a todo. El equipo. Y sus familias desde chile. Fue magistral la lecciones muy bien explicadas mil gracias
What a fantastic discussion about application of force!
thank you!
Gotta love Ilya and his lessons
Thank you for these!
After this video, I feel like there needs to be a t-shirt with "However" on it in Illya's honor.
"Further More"
Super helpful, cheers guys.
Man, you did not need all the math: the upside down camera shot explains it all! Genius.
i really liked the way you tried to use math to explain the proper usage of force in order to work efficiently.
The one conclusion i'd like to make is that working with a smaller anvil (like most of our blacksmithing predecessors) barely bigger that the hammer itself is the best way to impart maximum return of energy in the piece.
Ilya, you could've just told me to use as little contact area with the anvil as possible, and I would've taken your word for it
Loving these tutorials would be awesome to get one that focuses indepth on forge welding using coal and charcoal
That is a possibility
Loved it! MORE lessons please 😊
I admire the math lesson and the effort put into making this video
This has done more to get me interested in learning math than all of my years in school
Well that is a win win !
Awesome video! Thank you so much for sharing!
Thanks for watching!
My mind is freaking blown. Soooo educational!!! Thank you team.
Thank you for watching and letting us know that you liked it! Means a lot!
That actually made my integral calculus neurons tingle... Fascinating!
excellent !
Thanks for the video 👍🏻
Good stuff. Ive never had any major problems with a blade bending in forging. Any tips on keeping long blades straight throughout heat treat.
Loved it and I loved the math because now I can use this with my kids learning a bit of in their Algebra 2, geometry years. They are solving similar equations constantly but it’s just X and Y or H and B and they keep getting g caught up on the variable name. Now I just need to finish making my new forge because my old one is falling apart and we can make it an interactive class.
When we first started the Your Edge series, our hope is that it would sneak it's way into classrooms as a reference.
This is very vital information ! Thank You for posting this !
Thank you for watching and for the comment!
Brilliantly explained
Love the use of the soap stone on the chalkboard lol
Brilliant presentation!
Thank you for this video very educational!
thank you for watching it and taking the time to comment !
It seemed to me you where figuring out what the anvil does and was trying to figure out how to take the anvil out of the equation. Leving in only where your hammer strikes. Very useful information. Thanks for sharing 👍.
Thanks for watching and for the comment!
I like these videos that go into a bit of the math and physics of forging. Also, you don't just grind in the bevels and edges.
Forge them and then grind
Perfect video for a forge break. Thanks guys!
Thanks for watching! Hope it helps!
@@ThatWorks It does! Thank you for all you do.