Seriously, man, you're implying that the tenants are stupid and said they won't know any better. I get that your customer is the landlord. I'm just saying it wasn't cool or necessary to say that.
When I was much younger, worked at a AC company, tenant said furnace was broken after looking I found the problem- tenant didn’t think had to buy fuel oil
Well that is better than the poor women who filled the oil tank for her gas furnace. I can remember the coal shoot into the basement for the heater. good time, good time. Heat = work, I'm warm, not ccccold at all.......
@PipeDoctor One time it was a man from India sleeping on a thin mat on the floor with baseboard radiant heat. I told him to get a bed to get off the ground and a fan to circulate the heat. The call was at 2am and I was pissed.
Five words. Elderly women on blood thinners. It could be 85 degrees in the building and they still have electric heaters running at their feet. It doesn't help that they wear no socks, and their skirt and blouse are synthetic vibers which are damn near paper thin and don't help to maintain body heat.
I had another tenant accuse us of not turning the heat on and freezing his kids out. He closed his windows but has a slight gap at the top. Once I told him and the idiot closed and locked the window, the idiot had no more problems..
I hope your life improves and you find happiness. Being so bitter will cause you severe health issues in the future if you don't get that under control. Practice breathing exercises when you're triggered and learn to let things go. If someone is an idiot, you should have empathy for them because they're like a child in an adults body. It shouldn't anger you. Protect your health and inner peace.
@rebeccaspratling2865 or people should use common sense, it's really not that hard, and this guy isn't triggered, you can call someone an idiot without being mad
At the school where I worked we had one room with an independent AC unit. The room had multiple users, some would complain it was too cold, others too hot. I installed an old round Honeywell thermostat on the wall and told them just to set it wherever they felt comfortable. No more complaints even though it was never connected to the unit!
Funny thing is if I set my house at 70 it is too much and I live in wisconsin lol. TBF I do live in a well insulated house though so that does help alot. I usually keep my house around 65 in the winter and a little colder at night. However this is a individual preference thing.
@@James-kg1wf Depends on where the thermostat is as well. You could have it set to 70 but then your bedroom is 60 and your living room is 72 while your kitchen is 70.
@@bobshanery5152true as everyone has different tolerances or preferences. I find the 60s even at 60 to be quite comfortable considering the outside temps alot. At least where I live anyways. In the South many people thought us northerns were nuts for wearing shorts in the winter which was definitely comfortable for a bunch of us lol
I think the customer wanted to put 1st floor and basement on one zone and the 2nd floor only on another zone. Then the second floor circuit could be purged of air properly. Adding the additional valves that you suggested would probably be easier than repiping everything and would solve the air problem. Tricking the tenant with wireless gizmos is not actually fixing the problem.
The corp. that I worked for had the heat and A/C controlled thru Richmond, VA, via probes mounted inside the building. They controlled all the bowling centers this way. For the A/C, I moved the probes up, recording a higher temp at their master control and allowing our units to provide more A/C. They never knew.
The best way to fix a problem is to learn how it works. I learned more from tenants then from mechanics on how to heat an apt. The best was the ice tray on the lock box. But put a towel below the ice tray to absorb water drip. Otherwise the wet floor is a dead give away. Now landlords think then buy there way out of this problem
Thermostats can’t fix this tenants issue only getting more heat upstairs, easier to make one loop. Pipe upstairs first then pick up basement zone with one loop. Can not twin in basement and 2 Fl on one loop, it will work but will not work well as that old Tri gauge explains. It has been the same problems for many years I’d bet , the only thing that has changed was the tenants and the landlords, but didn’t fix the problem. I would like to see a follow up video in feb when it gets cold.
Had a similar situation. I seperated the split curcuit and made two zones. So much better. Also, before I put in my Jackson controls internet wifi thermostats, I put those fixed construction site thermostat pigtails right in the thermostat. I used the 70 degree ones because the other part of that law you cited is "every room" is 68 min and theres always that one colder room.
My house was built in 1870 here in New England well I was getting no heat on my second floor with 2 zones. After some testing of the thermostat line from the second floor there was a dead spot somewhere in the line. I had to reroute a new thermostat line and what a project that turned into.
Really enjoy your channel. You have a natural TV personality to go along with a strong understanding of your trade. Nice to see you coming up with solutions in difficult situations. Must be stressful coming behind so many installations lacking in proper workmanship. Watching you has helped me be a better handyman
The high voltage wires hooked up to the low voltage thermostat wires was killing me. Edit: thanks for the master class in sales in this one as well. great video
With my Ecobee and 4 wireless sensors, I can see temperatures in 4 rooms and using the app I can use any of the 4 sensors to control the furnace…for example if I’m having guests in my family room, I can control the family room temp using the remote sensor…it also has a “follow me” so the furnace will control the temperature in any room you are in…the sensors can tell if the room is occupied or not…works great
I have had an Ecobee with remote sensors for about 10 years now. By far the best smart thermostat I've ever installed. And I've installs a lot of them. I'm not a big fan of the Nest thermostats because they're harder the program and don't make it easy to understand how it all works.
If that isn't a National Electric Code violation , High voltage and low voltage should never be in the same box even when using romex for the low voltage. I am not sure of the article in the code book.
You can have different voltages in the same enclosure as long as the low voltage conductors have an insulation rating equal to or greater than the highest voltage present within that enclosure...
@@REWYRED I agree the voltage is not the issue. I thought running 22 gage wires in the same conduit as line voltage would be a violation. It is hack job as is! The right move would be to abandon the 12 gage thermostat wires and run new wires or install wireless sensors.
@@waltahlgrim5508 where the brown thermostat wire enters the box with the switch would be a violation as that "LVT" is only rated to 50 volts or so.. The red and blue pair appear to be THHN or TEW something rated upwards of 120V so it would not be a violation.. Just as on an AC condenser your LVT thermostat wire enters a separate little compartment where it connects to a couple of TEW leads that are rated at 600V. That in turn goes into the side that has the 240V wiring.. No violation.... If the LVT were to enter that side of the condenser that would be a violation. I agree and would do the same, pull a new thermostat wire and one with a couple extra conductors than what you need for future.
@@REWYRED yeah, the proper(line voltage/building rated) wire should pass through that into another junction box without line voltage and splice to the low voltage wiring there. I'm guessing it was that way at one time and someone else got all fancy pants shoving it into one box. alternate, use a separator available in some plastic boxes and plastic box. but that's probably violation there in itself.
@@throttlebottle5906 Crazy thing, I dont know if you have ever seen "fire alarm / signal" aka "FAS" cable but it looks IDENTICAL to the standard LVT thermostat wire only the outer sheathing is red and its rated to 300V. You can also get it as an armoured cable. If they would of used that, and I have for thermostats myself just because we have piles of it, you could run it amongst all the line voltage wiring with no concern or code violation either.... Bit confusing maybe but.🤷♂️
A mechanical thermostat will go short when calling for heat but an electronic thermostat would go dark if it shorted the line. The best it can do is have different resistance for on and off in that way the display can stay on. The box it connects to detects the difference and controls a relay so the electronic thermostat looks like a mechanical thermostat from that point on.
I lived in senior complexes and the law says they have to turn the heat on in September. So, on the day it was supposed to be turned on it was 89 degrees outside and I kid you not, on my floor it was 132 degrees in the hallway, but they called the state and they came and forced them to turn on the heat. They would crank it all the way up. They are crazy There have been times when I was sick and I was cold and I got it up to 90 and I had a heating blanket and I was still cold. You should never need more than 72 degrees in your house.
Double check the law there is a outside temperature also tied to the requirement. So even though september ur required to provide heat, how ever it might be when the outside temperature is below XX F. And you must maintain an indoor temperature of xxF, eg.like nyc is 68 in day and 63 over night.
Ya but the landlord doesn't have the right to control how you live. If the tenant wants it to be 100° it's literally none of his business. Why do landlord feel a if they have any control over a tenant? They provide a space, the tenant pays for it. They aren't their parent.
When you get that old your nervous system starts to degrade sense of temperature often is the first to go combined with circulation issues and low metabolism it makes the very elderly feel cold all the time
Mikey, Get yourself a cable toner. You connect the transmitter to a pair & then use the wand to locate it on the other end. of the cable. the transmitter generates a low level RF signal that is picked up with the wand. The wand outputs a tone when its near or touching the cable. That would solve a lot of the guesswork with unlabeled Thermostat cables. Low flow issue if there is a radiator valve that is restricting flow. Maybe the home was single zoned, and a valve was used to reduce the flow to some of the rooms. Would need to inspect the radiators to see if there was a radiator valve installed.
To be honest you have 24V AC low amperage (themostat) which are also piggy backing signaling, 8-24V AC doorbell voltage that depending on if its an older bell/chime can pull some pretty good current, connecting to 120V AC. You have the 24v wires changing impedance values because they go from 12 gauge to 18 gauge. Then on top of that you have them all running in parallel inside a grounded conduit that is physically in contact with a 120v-24v transformer. All of that connected via two different runs going back to the same control unit. Talk about EM field city baby!!!
Years ago I had a problem with tenants complaining about not enough heat or air conditioning installed dummy thermostats never had a problem after that.
Yep had a landlord do the same…. He suggested we keep the sink running slowly but the water keeps freezing on the sides of the sink. When showering the walls would all ice up..had to use space heater to warm bathroom enough to remove clothing the thermostat was Definitely not 65*f.
Mikey pipes good info as always. I always laugh when you say condanuity it’s continuity. Just trying to make the trades great again. LOL u still the man Mikey pipes
Thermostat replacement doesn’t feel like a solution, gives some extra control but was mostly just an upsale. Keep in mind you can put the remote probe outside or near a window and you get more heat. The 3rd zone would have worked much better. The loops are unbalanced, or simply the longer path takes more time to return. I don’t understand what that extra valve does for the 2nd floor since it’s on the basement pipe, I got something to do with air, but there are automatic air valves that can be mounted up top and fix the issue. If this is using water radiators, everyone should know how to remove air from each one. Now I’m no expert, but this seems not to be much of a fix. Maybe adding a flow valve on the basement would have given the possibility to adjust the flow rate and have equilibrium.
Believe it or not I have had more than one no A/C call and had to explain to the tenant they had to pay the electric bill to keep the electric company from turning the power off.
Walkout basement we keep kitchen and dining rooms between 72 and 78 depending if we just came in cold or warm , 3 bedrooms and living room have doors and are cooler . 2 tanks propane a year
I rented the same apartment where there was a boiler for which I paid, and the landlady had radiators connected in the stairwell, where the landlady kept flowers so they wouldn't freeze in winter. And that pissed me off. In another rent, another tenant's one bedroom was connected to my electricity meter and he had air conditioning there. Before you rent go to check gas and electric if the landlord do not cheat you. It doesn't matter who likes hot or cold. The Eskimo sleeps in a house made of ice and is fine. The important thing is that if you want to do business with someone and make money from it, you must provide him with conditions that he likes. Either create a separate system that he will pay for himself, or don't rent it.
NEC code you cant mix low voltage (class II) with line voltage (120/240) rip the old thermostat wiring out of the conduit, run new thermostat wire to the second floor.
Yea that was scary when he opened that cover. Cringe…… Whoever did the wiring needs a different line of work, maybe counting the grains of sand in a hourglass.
This is a reminder to solve basic problems first. If the pipes are not hot then fix the flow issue before doing other things. You can usually put a hand on a circ to see if it's running instead of chasing up and down the extra several times. If there's a basement tenant there should be a 3rd T-stat, other wise just valve it off. The room will never go below 50 degrees anyway.
Exactly, this dude keeps talking about thermos and troubleshooting those, when the pipe isn't even hot for the upper zone - because the upper zone is full of air. And up sells the landlord on new thermo controls. But you see he did put the pressure relief valve to solve the problem, so that's good. I just don't know why he glazed over the air in system issue rather then being more direct and explaining that's where the issue probably is. Also there's probably a bleed valve somewhere in the upper zone when the system was originally setup to purge the air.
First day on job site to balance the hydronic heating system of a newly constructed hotel,I’m met in the parking lot by the GC,the Mech Contractor, and Clerk of the Works who were very upset. They informed me to begin balancing at the far end of the 2 story building because the room on the 2nd floor was bitterly cold and the first floor was roasting hot. They stated it was obviously a balancing problem and needed it fixed asap. I commented that with those extremes in temperatures it seemed to me to be a control concern and not the balance. Lo and behold…I found that the control wires were in the opposite locations as what they should be. The first floor room was controlling the second floor and visa-versa on the second floor. So the second floor being cold,had it’s thermostat cranked to which made the first floor extremely over heated and it’s thermostat set to it’s lowest setting. Problem solved.
I might have to give you a call because the second floor of my house is getting very good heat. Now, the basement and first floor heat takes long to build up. Plus, one base board doesn’t really give off heat as well. I have an ecobee thermostat and I would like to have it installed and working because I want to controlled the temperature remotely. I am in queens.
This Ecobee + remote sensor is the most elegant solution for the landlords. I bet the tenants will totally confused why the old onwall thermostats don't do anything. 😂😂😂
other thing is wall insulation, if there is none that's not going to help but landlords and apartments should use remote sensors not only does it help landlords but also checking and repairing when you can see all the temperatures in one area lets say 4 floors.
I'm smart enough that I would disable it and install my own thermostat. It's not ok that a landlord thinks he has the right to control the temp in my apartment. The control issues of some people blow my mind.
My go-to thought is air in the 2nd floor line which needs to be purged. Can be done by isolating the 2nd floor system, pressurizing it, and flushing out through the boiler valve.
Seems like a shady guy. The complaint was for no heat, which was confirmed as a flow issue where the heat was not flowing up to the second floor. The second floor seems like it was tapped into the basement. Therefore, in theory, it was the basement that was causing the "stealing "of heat going to the second floor. A simple installation of a check valve in that line would have caused the heated water, to not be able to backflow into the basement, and thus be forced to flow into the second floor, providing the heat. Instead, you offered an expensive way to control remotely, as opposed to locally, the "calling "for heat. I understand that many landmarks want to control the amount of heat that is provided, as a financial solution, however, humanity would dictate that you provide someone with heat. You can, tell a book by its color ...
A little hard to follow with the way the video skips around - was the issue simply that the tenant was mistaken about there being no heat OR was there actually little to not heat (as evident by the cold pipe)?
some people are always cold, most older people and skinny people, i am not skinny so i am always hot, I had a renter that kept having the heat up full blast and by the time i figured out what was going on it cost me over $2,000 in excess electric bill, I found this out when the air conditioner was on and found a space heater on full blast, i freaked out, also people need to use curtains in the winter covering windows to help keep heat in and the cold out, wear a house coat or do not walk around naked, great video and ideas you gave to solve this problem, they need to do what you said for sure because in the long run it will cost them way more money and headache .
I like the green "ground conductor" cap with open hole in the end, totally used on line voltage, then low voltage wiring entering and spliced within a line voltage box without separator, it should continue through to a separate splice box where it then connects to the low voltage wiring. that assumes it's actual line voltage building rated wiring, that's also an over filled box. 🤢🤮
It never ceases to amaze me how lousy the pipe insulation is in heating systems. Either the original installation was sloppy or crappy maintenance practices over the years. All those missing insulation systems represent heat loss - heat that you spent good money creating. My system has even the valves insulated (with easy to remove covers) and I can tell you, there is very little temperature difference from the water coming out of the boiler to the far end radiator.
We tried ecobee sensor instead of running 6 wire so we can control heat pump /cooling. My boss thought it was a great solution but eventually we ended taking out the sensors and running a fast Stat 3000 instead. Sensors had a mind of their own and batteries wouldn't last. Also, the wifi was sometimes an issue.
Yep. I go through this during the switch from A/C to heat every year. The unseasonanbly warm KS weather this year has delayed that inevitable, and when the arctic blast inevitably hits, it'll be elbows and a**holes. More a**holes than elbows, unfortunately 😂
Gotta give it up to the clever thermostat wiring ! Thinking that they used existing wall lights for those runs .. however an electrician nightmare ! 14 and 18 gauge don't usually mix . And as far as that second floor and basement mixed zones just put shut off valves on both sides and bleed low to high...
With Section 8, the gubmint pays everything. So theres no incentive to keep it at 68, or put plastic up. A constantly chirping smoke alarm would make this complete.
my brother did that for a gym with a fake thermostat but realistically buildings and insulation needs to be checked honestly who knows how bad insulation or windows is, my brother bought a house and pretty much all the windows needs to be fixed as well with the doors
The best way to avoid disputes about the temperature is to have the tenant pay their own utilities. The only fly in this ointment is that removes any incentive for the landlord to upgrade to modern equipment or properly insulate the unit. For example, there are countless “modern” apartment buildings in Chicago - the legendary “4+1” type of building. These buildings, generally built in the 50’s and early 60’s - have four floors of apartments over one floor of entry / laundry / utility / parking. Construction is in insulated concrete block .Each apartment has a single 12-ft wide single pane, aluminum frame window. To make matters worse, the heat for the entire building is controlled by a single thermostat in the secured boiler room. Apparently the theory is that if the boiler room is set at 75 all the apartments will be comfortable. This plan fails to account for heat rising (upper floors tend to be warmer), the sun striking only a few units, and the wind hitting one side of the building. This design was specifically to keep construction costs as low as possible while just meeting code.
Having a zoned system in my house, I have 9 Ecobees across two HVAC systems with multiple remotes. I wouldn't trust the remote wireless sensors in that situation. You really should install something more commercial for that situation. I would add the third zone for sure, that way the basement could be set at much lower temp if no one is living down there. Keep up the good work sir! Happy New Year from DFW where I still need to run the AC as it will be almost 80F here this week! 👍💯
Am forever amazed by the populus out there. Using a boiler for heat is some what an odd concept for me. Why pay for gas that then heats water that then flows threw pipes. The simple salution is to restrict the flows so there even.
I have a honeywell with 2 wireless room sensors on the 2nd floor, they are EXTREMELY handy to have. kinda sucks the wifi module is separate and not built into the thermostat though.
My wife would turn the thermostat up on snowy days i would come in from work theres a heat island around the house no snow in 10 ft. She said it is cold so i turned it up. It took me literally years to get her to understand how it works.
Mikey the NYC heat regulation is from October 1 to May 31 ,atleast 68 degrees inside between 6am to 10 pm when outdoor temperature falls to 55 and below 10pm to 6am must be atleast 62 degrees indoors, .
I keep mine on 70 forvwinter and summer. Heat does not get turned on until is at 32 degrees and Summer when you go out and sweat! Wisconsin weather! You wear layers.....😅😅
Unlikely. There's only one boiler so there's only one bill. There's two zones, but zones can't be billed separately (boiler heats water for everyone). 2nd floor and basement do share a control, which is never really going to work well.
my tenants' complained about the heat it being to cold in the winter or to cold in the summer with the AC on i ran the c wire bought honeywell T9 thermostat and remote sensors. i put 80 inch ceiling fans in every room . that thermostat change the conversations between me and my tenants..they were trying to get over because i lived 3000 miles away and i had to go by what they said....now they complain about rabbits in the driveway
Great stuff you have caught my interest. Would love to improve my gas experience with you. Living in Maine I we have a lot of oil service calls. Very expensive in Maine to get hands training. Seems more interesting and a heck of a lot cleaner in every way. Keep the videos coming. Been doing heating for 32 years. Lots of night calls. You seem like a hard ass but very intelligent one. Just saying. Your channel is going to boom. Congrats on your own business and the you tube channel.
My landleech hates me so I don’t even complain but my heat is also out.. I can make it run using the manual override but then it doesn’t turn off. Not ideal, not frozen.
Office building women was constantly complaining she was cold (6th call) called the office for the ok to put a cheap electronic stat to put by her desk for her use only. Mounted on a column drywall pulled fake wires up into ceiling. Faked working in the ceiling for 10 minutes complete with banging on duct work. Crawled off the ladder after ceiling was closed off. Asked her what she wanted stat set at. If I remember it was 78, I set it. Left the building never received another cold call based on her complaint again. Fake stat.
Why the hell were there only 2 out of the 5 or 6 wires that were supposed to be there terminated at that thermostat? How could it possibly operate with only 2?
So your solution was to dupe the tenants? That's not cool.
Shut up Karen
Seriously, man, you're implying that the tenants are stupid and said they won't know any better. I get that your customer is the landlord. I'm just saying it wasn't cool or necessary to say that.
enjoyed...reminded w my ex wife always setting thermo to 75..i just went into advanced settings and 72 degrees read 75 on thermostat..
Very, very, very smart and also very sneaky 😏
@@PipeDoctorSometimes Mikey, that's all we can do because they won't listen to reason. Hehe
Hotels do this too. I bring my own thermometer, otherwise I feel crazy lol
need 2 thermostats. one to play with and the real one.
So trustworthy. Guess we know why you are her ex husband.
When I was much younger, worked at a AC company, tenant said furnace was broken after looking I found the problem- tenant didn’t think had to buy fuel oil
Well that is better than the poor women who filled the oil tank for her gas furnace. I can remember the coal shoot into the basement for the heater. good time, good time. Heat = work, I'm warm, not ccccold at all.......
Who is SAYED
@ it was the renter, he should get free heat
i'm guessing you were trying to spell "SAID"?
@@terencemerrittI think Paul here was the Tennant. 🤭 Sorry, Paul.
85 degrees😮 I live in North Dakota and anyone trying to keep 85 degrees would be broke in a month.
The number of times I have had to go on a call to an 80F house on a no heat was ridiculous.
It’s pathetic
@PipeDoctor One time it was a man from India sleeping on a thin mat on the floor with baseboard radiant heat. I told him to get a bed to get off the ground and a fan to circulate the heat. The call was at 2am and I was pissed.
@@ik7578 tell them to put their sleeping mat on a dinning room table. 🤪 possibly some religious thing though.
@@ik7578 come on. He was just being reminded of home
Five words. Elderly women on blood thinners.
It could be 85 degrees in the building and they still have electric heaters running at their feet. It doesn't help that they wear no socks, and their skirt and blouse are synthetic vibers which are damn near paper thin and don't help to maintain body heat.
I had another tenant accuse us of not turning the heat on and freezing his kids out. He closed his windows but has a slight gap at the top. Once I told him and the idiot closed and locked the window, the idiot had no more problems..
I hope your life improves and you find happiness. Being so bitter will cause you severe health issues in the future if you don't get that under control. Practice breathing exercises when you're triggered and learn to let things go. If someone is an idiot, you should have empathy for them because they're like a child in an adults body. It shouldn't anger you. Protect your health and inner peace.
@rebeccaspratling2865 or people should use common sense, it's really not that hard, and this guy isn't triggered, you can call someone an idiot without being mad
@rebeccaspratling2865 dealing with people who can't figure their window is open will give you health problems ,
At the school where I worked we had one room with an independent AC unit. The room had multiple users, some would complain it was too cold, others too hot. I installed an old round Honeywell thermostat on the wall and told them just to set it wherever they felt comfortable. No more complaints even though it was never connected to the unit!
“This guy is incompetent, didn’t even hook up the thermostat. let’s not call him back”
i like it! people are placated by their own perceptions, no drama
They say they have no heat but shows 74 on the thermostat....lol. I keep it at 70 in the winter. Good Lord!
Seems like a case of "I'm cold" vs. "I'm hot."
Yea man the darker people don’t like the cold so 75 is cold to them
Funny thing is if I set my house at 70 it is too much and I live in wisconsin lol. TBF I do live in a well insulated house though so that does help alot. I usually keep my house around 65 in the winter and a little colder at night. However this is a individual preference thing.
@@James-kg1wf
Depends on where the thermostat is as well.
You could have it set to 70 but then your bedroom is 60 and your living room is 72 while your kitchen is 70.
@@bobshanery5152true as everyone has different tolerances or preferences. I find the 60s even at 60 to be quite comfortable considering the outside temps alot. At least where I live anyways. In the South many people thought us northerns were nuts for wearing shorts in the winter which was definitely comfortable for a bunch of us lol
Dang,85 degrees? I like to be warm in the winter,but that's ridiculous.
That's boiling lol 😅😅😅😅
Hi from Southern Australia, That's T-shirt temperature, getting to the point of plan your day so you are not over exerting yourself.
Old people with poor circulation want more heat, they feel cold.
I think the customer wanted to put 1st floor and basement on one zone and the 2nd floor only on another zone. Then the second floor circuit could be purged of air properly. Adding the additional valves that you suggested would probably be easier than repiping everything and would solve the air problem. Tricking the tenant with wireless gizmos is not actually fixing the problem.
The corp. that I worked for had the heat and A/C controlled thru Richmond, VA, via probes mounted inside the building. They controlled all the bowling centers this way. For the A/C, I moved the probes up, recording a higher temp at their master control and allowing our units to provide more A/C. They never knew.
😂😎🥃
There are ways.😂
The best way to fix a problem is to learn how it works. I learned more from tenants then from mechanics on how to heat an apt. The best was the ice tray on the lock box. But put a towel below the ice tray to absorb water drip. Otherwise the wet floor is a dead give away. Now landlords think then buy there way out of this problem
Thermostats can’t fix this tenants issue only getting more heat upstairs, easier to make one loop. Pipe upstairs first then pick up basement zone with one loop. Can not twin in basement and 2 Fl on one loop, it will work but will not work well as that old Tri gauge explains. It has been the same problems for many years I’d bet , the only thing that has changed was the tenants and the landlords, but didn’t fix the problem. I would like to see a follow up video in feb when it gets cold.
@@atlasfueloilinc.2421 just a wet, not dripping towel covering it will work.
Had a similar situation. I seperated the split curcuit and made two zones. So much better. Also, before I put in my Jackson controls internet wifi thermostats, I put those fixed construction site thermostat pigtails right in the thermostat. I used the 70 degree ones because the other part of that law you cited is "every room" is 68 min and theres always that one colder room.
My house was built in 1870 here in New England well I was getting no heat on my second floor with 2 zones. After some testing of the thermostat line from the second floor there was a dead spot somewhere in the line. I had to reroute a new thermostat line and what a project that turned into.
You’re not the only one to have that problem. It’s a nightmare.
Really enjoy your channel. You have a natural TV personality to go along with a strong understanding of your trade. Nice to see you coming up with solutions in difficult situations. Must be stressful coming behind so many installations lacking in proper workmanship. Watching you has helped me be a better handyman
The high voltage wires hooked up to the low voltage thermostat wires was killing me. Edit: thanks for the master class in sales in this one as well. great video
it's not that uncommon.
With my Ecobee and 4 wireless sensors, I can see temperatures in 4 rooms and using the app I can use any of the 4 sensors to control the furnace…for example if I’m having guests in my family room, I can control the family room temp using the remote sensor…it also has a “follow me” so the furnace will control the temperature in any room you are in…the sensors can tell if the room is occupied or not…works great
I have had an Ecobee with remote sensors for about 10 years now.
By far the best smart thermostat I've ever installed. And I've installs a lot of them. I'm not a big fan of the Nest thermostats because they're harder the program and don't make it easy to understand how it all works.
I keep heat set at 69 in the winter and 77 for AC in the summer. North Idaho. 85 is crazy.
Press X to Doubt - no landlord has ever said "fix it regardless of cost" lmfao
If that isn't a National Electric Code violation , High voltage and low voltage should never be in the same box even when using romex for the low voltage. I am not sure of the article in the code book.
You can have different voltages in the same enclosure as long as the low voltage conductors have an insulation rating equal to or greater than the highest voltage present within that enclosure...
@@REWYRED I agree the voltage is not the issue. I thought running 22 gage wires in the same conduit as line voltage would be a violation. It is hack job as is! The right move would be to abandon the 12 gage thermostat wires and run new wires or install wireless sensors.
@@waltahlgrim5508 where the brown thermostat wire enters the box with the switch would be a violation as that "LVT" is only rated to 50 volts or so..
The red and blue pair appear to be THHN or TEW something rated upwards of 120V so it would not be a violation..
Just as on an AC condenser your LVT thermostat wire enters a separate little compartment where it connects to a couple of TEW leads that are rated at 600V. That in turn goes into the side that has the 240V wiring.. No violation.... If the LVT were to enter that side of the condenser that would be a violation.
I agree and would do the same, pull a new thermostat wire and one with a couple extra conductors than what you need for future.
@@REWYRED yeah, the proper(line voltage/building rated) wire should pass through that into another junction box without line voltage and splice to the low voltage wiring there.
I'm guessing it was that way at one time and someone else got all fancy pants shoving it into one box.
alternate, use a separator available in some plastic boxes and plastic box. but that's probably violation there in itself.
@@throttlebottle5906 Crazy thing, I dont know if you have ever seen "fire alarm / signal" aka "FAS" cable but it looks IDENTICAL to the standard LVT thermostat wire only the outer sheathing is red and its rated to 300V. You can also get it as an armoured cable.
If they would of used that, and I have for thermostats myself just because we have piles of it, you could run it amongst all the line voltage wiring with no concern or code violation either.... Bit confusing maybe but.🤷♂️
Pipe Doctor saved the day again! Highly recommend their services 💪🚿
A mechanical thermostat will go short when calling for heat but an electronic thermostat would go dark if it shorted the line. The best it can do is have different resistance for on and off in that way the display can stay on. The box it connects to detects the difference and controls a relay so the electronic thermostat looks like a mechanical thermostat from that point on.
I lived in senior complexes and the law says they have to turn the heat on in September.
So, on the day it was supposed to be turned on it was 89 degrees outside and I kid you not, on my floor it was 132 degrees in the hallway, but they called the state and they came and forced them to turn on the heat.
They would crank it all the way up.
They are crazy
There have been times when I was sick and I was cold and I got it up to 90 and I had a heating blanket and I was still cold.
You should never need more than 72 degrees in your house.
And that’s why some laws make no sense
Double check the law there is a outside temperature also tied to the requirement. So even though september ur required to provide heat, how ever it might be when the outside temperature is below XX F. And you must maintain an indoor temperature of xxF, eg.like nyc is 68 in day and 63 over night.
as you said. if customer is COLD because of being sick (Flu etc) they will never be/feel warm.
Ya but the landlord doesn't have the right to control how you live. If the tenant wants it to be 100° it's literally none of his business. Why do landlord feel a if they have any control over a tenant? They provide a space, the tenant pays for it. They aren't their parent.
When you get that old your nervous system starts to degrade sense of temperature often is the first to go combined with circulation issues and low metabolism it makes the very elderly feel cold all the time
Mikey, Get yourself a cable toner. You connect the transmitter to a pair & then use the wand to locate it on the other end. of the cable. the transmitter generates a low level RF signal that is picked up with the wand. The wand outputs a tone when its near or touching the cable. That would solve a lot of the guesswork with unlabeled Thermostat cables.
Low flow issue if there is a radiator valve that is restricting flow. Maybe the home was single zoned, and a valve was used to reduce the flow to some of the rooms. Would need to inspect the radiators to see if there was a radiator valve installed.
That is a really good idea.
@@PipeDoctor Klein ET450 is a nice one. I've been able to trace copper pipes in-slab with it. Very happy with it
@@PipeDoctor X3 on the tone generator. They're even more appreciated when you have bad knees and need to run up and down stairs several times. LOL!
I have an ecobee. My remote sensor fell off the table and caused my house to overheat.
Love a tone set, especially when you're taking over someone else's wiring job. Makes cable identification easy.
To be honest you have 24V AC low amperage (themostat) which are also piggy backing signaling, 8-24V AC doorbell voltage that depending on if its an older bell/chime can pull some pretty good current, connecting to 120V AC. You have the 24v wires changing impedance values because they go from 12 gauge to 18 gauge. Then on top of that you have them all running in parallel inside a grounded conduit that is physically in contact with a 120v-24v transformer. All of that connected via two different runs going back to the same control unit.
Talk about EM field city baby!!!
Years ago I had a problem with tenants complaining about not enough heat or air conditioning installed dummy thermostats never had a problem after that.
Sounds like a nightmare. Good thing you fixed it
Yep had a landlord do the same…. He suggested we keep the sink running slowly but the water keeps freezing on the sides of the sink. When showering the walls would all ice up..had to use space heater to warm bathroom enough to remove clothing the thermostat was Definitely not 65*f.
Dummy thermostats seem so incredibly dishonest and scummy.
Mikey pipes good info as always. I always laugh when you say condanuity it’s continuity. Just trying to make the trades great again. LOL u still the man Mikey pipes
Thermostat replacement doesn’t feel like a solution, gives some extra control but was mostly just an upsale. Keep in mind you can put the remote probe outside or near a window and you get more heat.
The 3rd zone would have worked much better. The loops are unbalanced, or simply the longer path takes more time to return. I don’t understand what that extra valve does for the 2nd floor since it’s on the basement pipe, I got something to do with air, but there are automatic air valves that can be mounted up top and fix the issue. If this is using water radiators, everyone should know how to remove air from each one.
Now I’m no expert, but this seems not to be much of a fix. Maybe adding a flow valve on the basement would have given the possibility to adjust the flow rate and have equilibrium.
Believe it or not I have had more than one no A/C call and had to explain to the tenant they had to pay the electric bill to keep the electric company from turning the power off.
I have no idea what I just watched 😂
Love your wiring skills ! Spotting other issues very important also, cuz u care ! Good stuff !
Walkout basement we keep kitchen and dining rooms between 72 and 78 depending if we just came in cold or warm , 3 bedrooms and living room have doors and are cooler .
2 tanks propane a year
I rented the same apartment where there was a boiler for which I paid, and the landlady had radiators connected in the stairwell, where the landlady kept flowers so they wouldn't freeze in winter. And that pissed me off. In another rent, another tenant's one bedroom was connected to my electricity meter and he had air conditioning there. Before you rent go to check gas and electric if the landlord do not cheat you. It doesn't matter who likes hot or cold. The Eskimo sleeps in a house made of ice and is fine. The important thing is that if you want to do business with someone and make money from it, you must provide him with conditions that he likes. Either create a separate system that he will pay for himself, or don't rent it.
NEC code you cant mix low voltage (class II) with line voltage (120/240)
rip the old thermostat wiring out of the conduit, run new thermostat wire to the second floor.
TELL THAT TO THE PLUMBER AND/OR ELECTRICIAN WHO INSTALLED THIS MESS
Yea that was scary when he opened that cover. Cringe…… Whoever did the wiring needs a different line of work, maybe counting the grains of sand in a hourglass.
That seems like a situation like “I don’t have the proper wire so I will just use what I have on the truck because I don’t care”
This is a reminder to solve basic problems first. If the pipes are not hot then fix the flow issue before doing other things. You can usually put a hand on a circ to see if it's running instead of chasing up and down the extra several times. If there's a basement tenant there should be a 3rd T-stat, other wise just valve it off. The room will never go below 50 degrees anyway.
Exactly, this dude keeps talking about thermos and troubleshooting those, when the pipe isn't even hot for the upper zone - because the upper zone is full of air. And up sells the landlord on new thermo controls. But you see he did put the pressure relief valve to solve the problem, so that's good. I just don't know why he glazed over the air in system issue rather then being more direct and explaining that's where the issue probably is. Also there's probably a bleed valve somewhere in the upper zone when the system was originally setup to purge the air.
nice diagnostic work and alternative solutions, another well done Mikey Pipes video
First day on job site to balance the hydronic heating system of a newly constructed hotel,I’m met in the parking lot by the GC,the Mech Contractor, and Clerk of the Works who were very upset. They informed me to begin balancing at the far end of the 2 story building because the room on the 2nd floor was bitterly cold and the first floor was roasting hot. They stated it was obviously a balancing problem and needed it fixed asap. I commented that with those extremes in temperatures it seemed to me to be a control concern and not the balance.
Lo and behold…I found that the control wires were in the opposite locations as what they should be. The first floor room was controlling the second floor and visa-versa on the second floor.
So the second floor being cold,had it’s thermostat cranked to which made the first floor extremely over heated and it’s thermostat set to it’s lowest setting.
Problem solved.
I might have to give you a call because the second floor of my house is getting very good heat. Now, the basement and first floor heat takes long to build up. Plus, one base board doesn’t really give off heat as well.
I have an ecobee thermostat and I would like to have it installed and working because I want to controlled the temperature remotely. I am in queens.
This Ecobee + remote sensor is the most elegant solution for the landlords. I bet the tenants will totally confused why the old onwall thermostats don't do anything. 😂😂😂
other thing is wall insulation, if there is none that's not going to help but landlords and apartments should use remote sensors not only does it help landlords but also checking and repairing when you can see all the temperatures in one area lets say 4 floors.
I'm smart enough that I would disable it and install my own thermostat. It's not ok that a landlord thinks he has the right to control the temp in my apartment. The control issues of some people blow my mind.
read the "factory" manual thats a new one for me thx
My SIL rents a 2 story upper apartment. One floor is either too cold or too hot.....no balance in temps.
My go-to thought is air in the 2nd floor line which needs to be purged. Can be done by isolating the 2nd floor system, pressurizing it, and flushing out through the boiler valve.
Best one, I had one complain for weeks! Come to find out the gas was turned off.
Thank you for showing what quality service looks like! 🙌
Seems like a shady guy.
The complaint was for no heat, which was confirmed as a flow issue where the heat was not flowing up to the second floor.
The second floor seems like it was tapped into the basement.
Therefore, in theory, it was the basement that was causing the "stealing "of heat going to the second floor.
A simple installation of a check valve in that line would have caused the heated water, to not be able to backflow into the basement, and thus be forced to flow into the second floor, providing the heat.
Instead, you offered an expensive way to control remotely, as opposed to locally, the "calling "for heat.
I understand that many landmarks want to control the amount of heat that is provided, as a financial solution, however, humanity would dictate that you provide someone with heat.
You can, tell a book by its color ...
A little hard to follow with the way the video skips around - was the issue simply that the tenant was mistaken about there being no heat OR was there actually little to not heat (as evident by the cold pipe)?
Just remember, if you run out of electrical junction boxes on the truck, you can just run the wires inside the coldwater line too😂🎉❤.
great video Mike, as usual👍 you explain everything perfectly
I'm glad you find the videos helpful.
Free game!, love how you are willing to educate
Heating issues aside as an electrician the massive number of electric code violations is amazing.
some people are always cold, most older people and skinny people, i am not skinny so i am always hot, I had a renter that kept having the heat up full blast and by the time i figured out what was going on it cost me over $2,000 in excess electric bill, I found this out when the air conditioner was on and found a space heater on full blast, i freaked out, also people need to use curtains in the winter covering windows to help keep heat in and the cold out, wear a house coat or do not walk around naked, great video and ideas you gave to solve this problem, they need to do what you said for sure because in the long run it will cost them way more money and headache .
I like the green "ground conductor" cap with open hole in the end, totally used on line voltage, then low voltage wiring entering and spliced within a line voltage box without separator, it should continue through to a separate splice box where it then connects to the low voltage wiring. that assumes it's actual line voltage building rated wiring, that's also an over filled box. 🤢🤮
Highest point on radiator. You can use a bleed key. I didn't see you look at baseboard. It's been a while lol. I could be wrong.
Mike is a true professional - you make plumbing look so easy!
It never ceases to amaze me how lousy the pipe insulation is in heating systems. Either the original installation was sloppy or crappy maintenance practices over the years. All those missing insulation systems represent heat loss - heat that you spent good money creating. My system has even the valves insulated (with easy to remove covers) and I can tell you, there is very little temperature difference from the water coming out of the boiler to the far end radiator.
We tried ecobee sensor instead of running 6 wire so we can control heat pump /cooling. My boss thought it was a great solution but eventually we ended taking out the sensors and running a fast Stat 3000 instead. Sensors had a mind of their own and batteries wouldn't last. Also, the wifi was sometimes an issue.
GREAT WORK LOVE YOUR WORK
I'm glad you're enjoying the content!
From an electrical stand point, your not allowed to mix voltages. Besides the fact that wire is not 600v rated.
It's good at time to explain how things should be working to people to help with the fault finding process.
Yep. I go through this during the switch from A/C to heat every year. The unseasonanbly warm KS weather this year has delayed that inevitable, and when the arctic blast inevitably hits, it'll be elbows and a**holes. More a**holes than elbows, unfortunately 😂
Most excellent new here. Enjoyed this video.
Thanks for checking it out!
Gotta give it up to the clever thermostat wiring ! Thinking that they used existing wall lights for those runs .. however an electrician nightmare ! 14 and 18 gauge don't usually mix . And as far as that second floor and basement mixed zones just put shut off valves on both sides and bleed low to high...
With Section 8, the gubmint pays everything. So theres no incentive to keep it at 68, or put plastic up. A constantly chirping smoke alarm would make this complete.
Actually section 8 doesn’t have to include utilities unless the landlord has that in a contract.
@only1muppet the welfare deadbeats get HEAP, a lump sum of cash for the seasons heat bills. They can also get a free window a/ c
Good job Mikey
Sell him a third zone for the basement an you are done
my brother did that for a gym with a fake thermostat but realistically buildings and insulation needs to be checked honestly who knows how bad insulation or windows is, my brother bought a house and pretty much all the windows needs to be fixed as well with the doors
Should not the wires be labeled to where they go around the house to the fuse/breakout box?
The best way to avoid disputes about the temperature is to have the tenant pay their own utilities.
The only fly in this ointment is that removes any incentive for the landlord to upgrade to modern equipment or properly insulate the unit.
For example, there are countless “modern” apartment buildings in Chicago - the legendary “4+1” type of building. These buildings, generally built in the 50’s and early 60’s - have four floors of apartments over one floor of entry / laundry / utility / parking. Construction is in insulated concrete block .Each apartment has a single 12-ft wide single pane, aluminum frame window. To make matters worse, the heat for the entire building is controlled by a single thermostat in the secured boiler room. Apparently the theory is that if the boiler room is set at 75 all the apartments will be comfortable. This plan fails to account for heat rising (upper floors tend to be warmer), the sun striking only a few units, and the wind hitting one side of the building. This design was specifically to keep construction costs as low as possible while just meeting code.
Having a zoned system in my house, I have 9 Ecobees across two HVAC systems with multiple remotes. I wouldn't trust the remote wireless sensors in that situation. You really should install something more commercial for that situation. I would add the third zone for sure, that way the basement could be set at much lower temp if no one is living down there. Keep up the good work sir! Happy New Year from DFW where I still need to run the AC as it will be almost 80F here this week! 👍💯
How big is your house?
@@BREEZYM6015 Just under 7500 sq ft.
I still don't understand what the problem was. You said one pipe was not hot although it seems like it should have been? Why wasn't it hot?
Am forever amazed by the populus out there. Using a boiler for heat is some what an odd concept for me. Why pay for gas that then heats water that then flows threw pipes. The simple salution is to restrict the flows so there even.
Using a boiler means you dont have hot gasses running through your house. If you have a leak its easy to find because the water pools in the area.
what was the problem i felt i got the run around treatment my self
I have a honeywell with 2 wireless room sensors on the 2nd floor, they are EXTREMELY handy to have. kinda sucks the wifi module is separate and not built into the thermostat though.
You did it again found the wires where they go excellent doctoring everything...
My wife would turn the thermostat up on snowy days i would come in from work theres a heat island around the house no snow in 10 ft. She said it is cold so i turned it up. It took me literally years to get her to understand how it works.
5:30 I can only assume the electrician hated the owner as evidenced by placing a box in that corner.
Quick, clean, done ✅
Mikey the NYC heat regulation is from October 1 to May 31 ,atleast 68 degrees inside between 6am to 10 pm when outdoor temperature falls to 55 and below 10pm to 6am must be atleast 62 degrees indoors, .
❤ Bring your air out.
I keep mine on 70 forvwinter and summer. Heat does not get turned on until is at 32 degrees and Summer when you go out and sweat! Wisconsin weather! You wear layers.....😅😅
The landlord knows those code violations are going to cost him a fortune if an inspector comes. That is why he wants it fixed regardless of cost.
I'm from Dunkirk where that boiler was made
My tenant buys their oil añd in the lease temp is not to go under 60 in winter and I dont cate how hot they set it.😊
Is the second floor tenant paying to heat the basement apartment as well?
Unlikely. There's only one boiler so there's only one bill. There's two zones, but zones can't be billed separately (boiler heats water for everyone). 2nd floor and basement do share a control, which is never really going to work well.
Great video Mike.😀
It was line voltage then converted.
I love the vision pro8000's with the EIM'S 👌 theyre great tstats.
Very neat existing mix of low voltage and line wires. 😂
I know, right?
Did anyone else see the spark on that transformer @2:39????
my tenants' complained about the heat it being to cold in the winter or to cold in the summer with the AC on i ran the c wire bought honeywell T9 thermostat and remote sensors. i put 80 inch ceiling fans in every room . that thermostat change the conversations between me and my tenants..they were trying to get over because i lived 3000 miles away and i had to go by what they said....now they complain about rabbits in the driveway
Remote thermostat is a great idea but the tenant will just put on an electric heater and risk a fire.
Great stuff you have caught my interest. Would love to improve my gas experience with you. Living in Maine I we have a lot of oil service calls. Very expensive in Maine to get hands training. Seems more interesting and a heck of a lot cleaner in every way. Keep the videos coming. Been doing heating for 32 years. Lots of night calls. You seem like a hard ass but very intelligent one. Just saying. Your channel is going to boom. Congrats on your own business and the you tube channel.
Thanks for sharing excellent video excellent information 🔔😎😎🎄🎄
Line voltage and low voltage mixed in the same boxes and conduit, nice! Code, what’s that?
Yes, it is
Listening to the tenants speak to you and one another I’m gonna say they like it Caribbean hot. Kinda explains the sun surface setting.
I set our heat at 67, my husband sets it at 68. I don’t understand how anyone can breathe with it any higher
My landleech hates me so I don’t even complain but my heat is also out..
I can make it run using the manual override but then it doesn’t turn off. Not ideal, not frozen.
Adding the third zone is the real solution. They have to isolate the basement from the second floor and give it its own thermostat.
Office building women was constantly complaining she was cold (6th call) called the office for the ok to put a cheap electronic stat to put by her desk for her use only. Mounted on a column drywall pulled fake wires up into ceiling. Faked working in the ceiling for 10 minutes complete with banging on duct work. Crawled off the ladder after ceiling was closed off. Asked her what she wanted stat set at. If I remember it was 78, I set it. Left the building never received another cold call based on her complaint again. Fake stat.
looked like a high resistance on the t-stat contactor to me
Why the hell were there only 2 out of the 5 or 6 wires that were supposed to be there terminated at that thermostat? How could it possibly operate with only 2?