Your PRESENCE knob isn't as innocent as it seems....
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- In this video I investigate the influence of presence on your Marhall or Fender Amp. I realize I have vastly underestimated it's influence. Treaked right it can really sound like fundamentally different amps! I'm using a 2021 Marshall Studio Vintage SV20H and a 2021 Fender Telecaster Custom Shop 1960 Relic!
Presence knobs get a lot of negative feedback...
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Bravo sir 😊
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😂😂😂
Unless feedback is a part of your sound live, depends on the style, that’s another sound tool to play with, where you move on the stage etc ;)
Simply put, the Presence knob in a Marshall cancels harmonics generated in the amp section above ~2kHz as it's turned down, but the signal is instead compressed. When the amp section is driven hard enough to overpower the applied GNFB, the harmonics will jump out abrupty. The most gradual break up above 2kHz is therefore achieved by keeping the Presence up and the Treble down.
I might be able to explain it a bit.
I will use sort of water down explanation that might be easier to understand for non technical people that actually make music and enjoy their amplifiers.
Lets see how tone shaping in such amplifier works in the first place.
Tone stack is sort of EQ shaping the original signal. Most often you go true one or in some cases two gain stages and in the lot of Marshalls cathode follower and then you deduct frequencies by leading them to the ground. So tones stack is a pasive filter. It does not actually amplify the certain range but it puts some of it to the ground. It's middle position is calculated to desired and defined EQ curve. In HiFi tube amplifiers it is linear tone response EQ curve, but in the guitar tube amplifiers it is very scooped EQ curve. That is designed that way to compensate for very middle heavy and not that interesting guitar pickup signal.
Then signal, most often hits the Phase Inverter. Now Phase inverter has it's "input/inputs" and you have the original signal hitting it from the "main" input. At the same time negative feedback loop is returned to the Phase Inverter as well and it practically controls the signal so that it can't overload the Phase Inverter and there for can't drive to hard the output tubes.
It is a handbrake that is connected with a gas pedal sort of. So more signal comes out of the amplifier more it is going to break the original signal. It literarily reduces the amplification to create more headroom and prevent the distortion.
In single ended amplifiers NFB injection is done into the cathode of the last triode that is supplying the output tube but functions the same way.
Presence, in this type of circuit, is working by actually taking the part of the high frequencies from the Negative Feedback Loop signal and leads that to the ground. It might sound strange but more presence you dial in it actually reduces treble content from the Negative Feedback Loop signal. It leads more of the treble part to the ground.
So you get sort of more treble by reducing it's content in the NFB signal so that part of the spectrum is fighting less the original signal.
Lot of people do not know it maybe, but in tube triode you can feed the signal in the grid (most often way to use it) and you can feed it into the cathode. Both ways signal will open and close the tube and have "same" function. Accept when you use the grid signal injection signal changes the phase. If you are using the cathode as input, signal stays in phase.
You can also drive the next stage with both plate and the cathode and that is a case in the cathodyne phase inverter.
This phase thing is very important for functioning of the NFB. If you switch wires amplifier will be generating sort of feedback sound and things might go wrong as well.
In case of Long tail pair Phase Inverter we have two grids and the cathodes (cathodes are connected together) So you can insert signal in 3 places. Yeah seriously. Pretty complex thing but actually very simple :)
Now how does that all help us understand what is happening?
Well simple. Functioning of the tone stack and presence influences each other. When you lower the treble in the tone stack less treble will end up in the NFB as well. Then if you dime the Presence you will further down the treble content from the NFB signal hence you will not fight the original signals treble that much. So depending on volume level you are kind of reducing to amplify it after it. Not really efficient way. But you make less control of the treble part and can cause more harmonics and more distortion.
On the other hand if you put the treble on max in the tone stack there will be more treble in the NFB signal. Then if you dial the Presence back you will allow more treble content to go back to the Phase Inverter and fight the original signal more. Treble will be very controlled. Might reduce harmonics and will reduce the distortion.
Remember we hear treble part distortion very good and at the same gain level signal with more treble distortion will sound more gained up to our ears.
Now at some levels this is not that critical but louder you go bigger the effect of the NFB gets.
NFB is contradictory thing
At one side NFB is killing dynamic and in some cases reduces harmonics. It makes amplifier most often less loud as well.
Why is it used then? Well it makes signal more HiFi and less distorting. In small amplifiers it helps with poor headroom. In big amplifiers it makes them more playable. No NFB amplifier from 40 Watt and up get very spikey and very hard to play.
Though no NFB woks great in 10 to 25 Watt amplifiers. It makes it louder and gives it wild character.
If there is no NFB there can't be such Presence knob.
So NFB has it's moments. Done good it can make the amp sound really nice. Amplifier can have NFB and still not opt to use the Presence circuit but there is no such Presence without the NFB.
So Tone stack shapes the original signal and Presence knob shapes NFB signal. NFB signal fights the original signal and acts in the opposite way in that when you reduce treble in the NFB signal you will fight less the treble from the original signal resulting in more treble.
Please take it all with grain of salt because I would need like 50 pages of text to start explaining how it works on different levels of signals and why doesn't run away etc. etc. etc. But in the principle this is how it works most of the time.
I hope this was simplified enough that anyone can understand how this works in the broad strokes at least.
Either you don't know what you're talking about or you dramatically over-complicated how low pass/high pass filters work, but don't worry it's the internet, no one will even notice.
@user-eh1vp3ev3c I am pretty sure that you are the OG Internet troll, though. Never mind, haters gonna hate. I am not even going to bother stating the obvious.
@NINEWALKING
That's good, I'm sure I wouldn't have the time to read the novella that you would consider to be "the obvious" 🤪👍
Thank you so much for this explanation! I learned something and understand it perfectly now
I'm still shocked you haven't made a career working in a recording studio or even inventing cool stuff in the audio industry! They really do sound like different amps. Great stuff as usual. God bless and rock on 👍😎🎸
Thanks man that’s very kind of you! Rock on! 🎸😀
Led Zeppelin named an album after this knob. Speaks for itself !
Yeah love that album!
Somehow I doubt that
@@badbrad7534 Humor? No?
Who did they steal that one from?
😂
Great demonstration and explanation. Most guitarists view a Presence control as an additional Treble control but Presence works in a completely different way. Treble in the tone stack is purely REDUCTIVE cuz the tone stack can only attenuate signal strength by frequency - it cannot ADD signal strength. Presence works in the power amp section in an "opposite" way. By ATTENUATING high frequencies in the NEGATIVE signal from the ouptut fed back into the power amp input, it gives that feedback loop LESS high frequencies to CANCEL, thus RAISING the level of those frequencies in the ouptut.
As you state, because the physics are ADDITIVE rather than REDUCTIVE, the approach for balancing the entire sound of the amp's circuit is a bit more involved but can achieve sounds manipulating a passive tone stack alone cannot.
Thanks! Glad to hear it and great explanation of how the loop works! Cheers
Hence “Presence”. Beautiful!!!
Johan, you always find something interesting to show us! To further clarify what @stratfanstl wrote... because the Presence control reduces the higher frequencies in the negative feedback loop, the power amplifier will produce more gain at those frequencies compared with the lower frequencies. So if you are playing hard and loud, the power amplifier will create more distortion in the higer frequencies which changes the harmonic content and adds "presence" :)
God bless you sir for one of the best websites for us amp and guitar lovers
Thanks! Makes my day to hear that
This man is an international treasure
Presence is kind of like garlic in a meal. A little is sometimes too much and too much is sometimes not enough. Or like women, 1 is too many and 10 not enough. :)
Hahahaha! Cheers
The presence knob was originally installed to combat the sound of aging tubes - tubes lose high end as they age, so it was a way of adding highs back in and keeping the same sound. As you turn up the control the frequency goes lower down the frequency range - from highs into the upper mids.
Interesting I didn’t know that!
ABSOLUTE RUBBISH!
The "Presence" knob boosts upper midrange AND treble.
It has nothing to do with "aging" valves, that wasn't a problem in the 1960's and 70's.
Siemens, Mullard, Telefunken, Phillips etc made them by the millions, and they didn't cost much more than a 60Watt light bulb.
You could even buy them in "supermarkets", that had valve/tubetester so you could test if your valves were ok!
Please stop your HiFi-Voodoo..
Always a pleasure to get immersed in the guitar signal chain adventure with you, Johan! And one gets to know a lot of groundbreaking things thanks to you and also the guys in the comment section 👏
I’ve always just adjusted by ear. Treble for the amount of high fizz/crunch, and presence for air or clarity. Both around 2-3 on my Jubilee. Gain pulled out. Sounds epic with a bit of delay and a Mesa EQ in the effects loop. Guitar straight into amp: PAFJoe and Fred pickups, no tone control. Texas Specials also kick ass!
Good morning from Chicago! Hope everyone is well
Good morning Dennis!
This is a very PRESENT subject! (I'll show MYSELF out! )
😁
Can’t wait to check this out after work! By far my favorite channel on TH-cam, thankyou!
Thanks makes my day to hear that!
I've always used the presence as a fine tuner for different guitars and tunings. Quick fix for darker guitars or baritone tunings is to crank it, or cut it for really bright guitars, keeping the rest of the settings the same.
Cheers
PREACH 🤘 The Resonance and Presence Controls to me is a built in Boost Pedal....For example my 5150 III can get tighter than a nuns biscuit by simpley lowering the Resonance to around 3, an the Presence Control at around 5. My Orange Rocker 15 lacks these Controls and relies on the master volume and a boost pedal to achieve a very similar goal. I find that the main difference is the feel of the amp, as all that tube sag, controlled feedback, and noise becomes part of a "Master Volume Tone" The dynamics are to much fun, as at this point as when you lay into your strings you can hear / feel the bass "fart out" become fuzz or what not or the high ends hiss out, as the 5150 III can get that very polished non dynamic feel / tone thanks to all them powerful control knobs and headroom 🤓🍻🤘
thanks for these video Johan. that 70's overdrive tone is a great sound. you help us too know what we' re trying to do and ways to do it. all the different size and types of amps can do it to some degree. I don't have pro gear but you help even with the O.K. gear I do have. Like the pathfinder or the monoprice amp. Be well Johan and Rock on! Let's go!
People confuse the purpose of the presence control. You have to imagine the amp without it all. The presence circuit is wrapping signal back around to an earlier stage, in an effort to make the output section have a more linear frequency response. Linear meaning a flat frequency response. When you turn the presence up, it is effectively taking the presence circuit OUT of the signal path for the frequencies that it is allowing to pass. I.E. The added brightness you get as you turn it up is the actual sound the amp would naturally produce... If you remove the presence circuit entirely, in an amp like the DSL40, JCM800, or any other amp that has one, you would absolutely cringe at how bad the amp then sounded. The presence circuit is a large part of what makes the amp sound the way it does. Without it, the amp will sound completely different.
Amps that do not have presence controls/circuits, tend to have a more open, less compressed sound and a little bit less headroom. This is because the output section is doing as it does. The core sound of the amp in this case is settled with the tuning of the preamp section, or perhaps in the case of an AC30 style amp, a power section " Cut " control, which is simply using common mode rejection to reduce the highs from even getting into the power tubes to begin with.
If you want to get an idea of how bad a JCM800 type amp sounds without the NFB loop, simply pull the feedback return path resistor, and be amazed at how terrible the amp will sound...
Cool. Pete Thorn says that the presence knob adds gain in older Marshalls. He heard that from Friedman and confirmed it himself.
Thanks! Well Dave and Pete certainly know what they’re talking about. I need to look into this because I thought the negative feedback loop was subtractive.
Presence knobs are tricky because the roots of the knob deal with the NFB loop, but other implementations might have nothing to do with the NFB
It'll also affect the clean headroom and how it breaks up. Even meant amps without presence controls persay will still have it within the circuit, it's just fixed with a resistor instead of a control pot. It's similar to the midrange tone stack in Fender Deluxe Reverb, Princetons, etc. There's no control for it, but you can revoice the midrange by increasing the resistor value. The Fender 68 Custom amp series break up earlier and its more touch sensitive than theirBlackface equivalents by using a much lower valued resistor. It's also why I'm not a fan of the 68 Custom Princeton reverbs: there's just no headroom in them at all. Well, that and the fact that i don't think that bassman tone stack they use works well with a small amp like that.
Tweaking the Negative feedback so it would breakup sooner was one of the first mods i ever did on an amp. Id change the stock 500K resistor with a 100K. It also warmed the amp a bit by removing a lot of the presence. Now i install a three way switch so you can set it back to the stock setting if you want.
Any EQ control turned to minimum and then maximum is naturally going to give tonal extremes .. the presence is no different.
Presence is the only tone control that is part of the negative feedback of the amplifier, encompassing the final two stages of the circuitry. I feel that it can easily sound bad, an opinion supported by disappointment in recording. As it is a single pole filter its effect is overly broad. Use as little of it as you possibly can, making up in the tone stack if at all possible.
I turn it off and leave it off unless I absolutely need it. Further, unlike tone stack bands that are interdependent, presence setting is unaffected by any other control, completely independent. Find a place for it and leave it there.
The presence knob is the setting I adjust last. I will start with all the knobs at 12 oclock, then adjust bass, mids, highs to taste. If I need to dial in some high end or take some away, I'll use the presence knob. I'll never run presence at zero or 100%, at most 3 oclock. Any higher it will sound shrill, and make your ears bleed!
If you have master volume+presence+resonance then you have the best possible tone shaping options
Death Vader sensed this knob in A New Hope. One he hadn’t since...
😂🤘
I read some article about Al Di Meolas tone, guess it was Race With the Devil... presence low but middle all the way up, get some punch. Les paul and marshall.
Interesting!
@@JohanSegeborn "However, unlike most rock guitarists, he dialed the amp’s treble and presence controls almost all the way down and turned the midrange and bass controls all the way up to give individual notes voluptuous body with thick midrange even when he played lightning-fast palm-muted runs. Di Meola’s Marshalls were likely USA export models shipped with 6550 tubes instead of EL34s, which provide tighter and brighter overall tone compared to the inherent warmth and compression of EL34 tubes"
I'd like to hear it with more gain for comparison too. Very interesting
This video sounds like being in an actual room with the amp. What mic is that? And are there any other secrets to your recorded tone?
Thanks Robert! I’m using two Peluso 2247LE, cardioid pattern on close mic and Omni pattern on room mic
@@JohanSegeborn oh, very affordabe ;) anyway, thanks for telling me!
I have a Magnatone Super 15 with a Celestion Neo Creamback in it. When running the amp with the knobs around noon, it sounded a bit harsh. I have it dialed in where I love the sound of the amp. The treble is at 5%, middle 50%, bass 75%, and presence 100%.
It's amazing what that presence control can do.
What neck profile and thickness do you have on your ‘60 custom shop?
On a Mesa Rectifier, the Presence knob is more useful than the Treble knob.
Malcolm Young was a notorious presence hater. Makes sense with his use of the filtertron sound.
Yeah he had some unique settings
Very illuminating! Now i have more to think about. Also, is resonance then a similar function but for the lower frequencies? 🤔
Been playing for a very long time and embarrassed to say, I’ve never thought of using presensce that way. It’s always “ start at 12 o’clock, tweak the eq and then dial in the presence” Great video. Cheers
My approach, too!
Please correct me if I'm wrong but I understood the presence control to be volume dependent. At low output not much NFB so little audible difference....high output more effect. Kinda like a 'loudness' (low volume bass boost) control in reverse.
Interesting, since it comes from the OT one would assume so. The bright cap which is unrelated is volume dependent though. Not sure about NFB. Let me read up on that. Cheers
Don't worry Johan....nearly everyone has no clue what the difference is. Thanks for this video though! The Legend Segeborn!
Why fender twin reverb doesn’t have presence knob?
I've always heard that you should set your EQ knobs to your general liking and then use the presence knob to suit different rooms or guitars. It seems to work well for me but maybe its just easier to fiddle with one knob than four on stage 😁
Can hardly wait to see your channel hit 100k mark!
Go, Johan!
Super interesting! Great topic. I heard what you heard. I also used to find the presence pot a bit of a mystery...put it halfway up and leave it. I started to understand it better using the Origin Effects Revival Drive pedal, which has a More/Presence pot. At 12 o'clock its neutral, then clockwise it increases presence, and anticlockwise it reduces negative feedback. Origin say dial all the way anticlockwise for a Vox sound (no negative feedback), and dial in presence for a Marshall sound.
Thanks Glad to hear it! I have to check out that pedal!
yeah that is a really cool way to do it. At noon will be the darkest, cleanest sound, and either way away will be brighter and gainier as the negative feedback decreases, just in different ways. on one end, the full spectrum is allowed to feed back less, Voxy, on the other, only the high frequencies are restricted from feeding back so only the lower frequencies are kept cleaner, Marshally.
So you get more versatility from the amp Good stuff What kind of speakers in the Vox ? I have 2 Golds from a 73 SS Viscount that are magic Made by Oxford actually Cheers
Thanks! It’s got only one Marshall V30 with a greenback cone! Cheers!
Thank you for sharing your eureka moment with us! Going to try this with my jtm45
This is great. The presence control is widely misunderstood, I think. I like the grit and sizzle it adds, so I tend to run presence high and treble low. If you need a sweeter and more mellow tone, though, turn down the presence. Funnily, amps that have zero negative feedback don’t typically sound like they need a presence control.
Thanks! Yeah an AC30 is often sparkling but I think that’s due to the Celestion Blue Alnicos which would sound harsh with a presence amp
no negative feedback = closest to presence all the way up :)
the more you turn up the presence knob, the more it restricts the high frequencies from the feedback loop. so lower knob is more negative feedback, more cancellation, higher knob is less feedback, less cancellation!
Creeping on 100 K ❕
Presence 1 master 1 reverb off on 7 bass 10 mid 4 treble 4 vol 5 gain 10. Jcm 800 with reverb. Flat e dropped
Cheers
I've always felt that the presence knob is the secret ingredient (the "spice") with Marshall and other similarly styed amps. It has the most effect on tone of all the other knobs as they are merely filters. The presence controls how the transformer behaves which influences all the other filters. The great thing about Marshall amps, is that there really are infinite tones available with different combinations. On the other hand, I've never been fond of a resonance control and I prefer not to have one.
Interesting do any vintage amps have a resonance control?
@@JohanSegeborn As far as I know...no...thank goodness!
it was interesting in deed!
What about the resonance knob?!
Great video (again)! I've always set Presence at 2-3, and adjusted tone stack (and channel mix on 4-holers). Now I also need to look closer at this knob, because the tone influence is different. Thanks Johan!
Thanks Bengt! Cheers!
My knob's rarely innocent ^^
And I think the Presence on one of my amps tends to make it horribly squealy for (nearly) no reason :(
Nice experience nonetheless ;)
Thanks 😂
Hey, what mic is that brother?
I've always thought of it as a lowpass/high-pass combination.
Acting as a lpf until you hit unity, then switching to a hpf.
Gives the effect of cutting the mud while boosting mid/treble.
On my -72 Super Lead the setting without brightcap is.
Precence..0
Bass 1-2
Midd 10
Treble 0.
Vol 7-8.
Live and in Studio soundguys always say..wow I have done nothing on the mixer, everything is in the middle on the Eq and sounds perfekt pure Rockenroll
Yeah without very high set mids most Marshalls are held back
@@JohanSegeborn well on my Silverjubilee's you need higer Precence, and treble settings and back the mid to 6-7.
Greetings from Umeå.
Aloha Johan! Eureka- I've found it! I need to get an amp with presence.
Aloha Victor!
It seems like a lot of commenters are bringing this concept over to amps with low/mid/high (instead of the four eq adjustments you have) I don’t think that’s a wise thing to do because in that case the frequencies you get from treble adjustment are very far away from the ones you get when adjusting the treble knob. Nobody would ever confuse or wonder when to use one vs the other in that case
Mind-blowing topic.
I'm still not quite getting how it works and what it does, but your vid got me to listen again what really happens when I turn the treble or the presence knob independently.
Turns out the treble knob on my 2525c is actually a low-cut-filter.
So treble stays on zero for fuller tone 🤯
I suppose you should be getting more distortion with presence up since it's feeding more signal back. I guess the capacitor choice in the negative feedback loop also plays a role to how different it really starts sounding with presence, given that it shoves all unwanted signal in the loop to ground and as thus in cooperation with the resistor (in this case the potentiometer) controls the frequencies that boost the signal. Unless I of course remember the circuit wrong.
Presence always on 6.
Excellent video! It would be interesting to see how this would turn out on an amp like a Mk3 Boogie which i believe have a lot “more” going on when you turn the nobs. Even more interesting how this turns out with a clean vs a cranked amp. Im waiting for the next video on this topic!
Sweet! Now I have a Marshall AND a Vox. I'm gonna try this with my sv 20. I also wanna see what it does with my Slo30.
The presence adds or lows the overall brightness of the amp, the upper highs of the signal.
This is EXTREMELY apparent on blonde 6g6-b fender bassman heads! Presence control is awesome 🤟😎🍻💯🔥
Very good info Johan. Do you have a Marshall Origin head with the Tilt knob that you can talk about?
Popular old Vox amps don't have a feedback circuit, built a Fender Champ which I switched off the feedback loop which makes it sound more like the Beatles (as advertised) also gives a bit of a crunch. High gain amps (also fender) need to actually be cleaner so they use feedback to clean the amp up although if you fix the old grounding schemes they tend to be too clean and switching the feedback loop off improves sound. Builds: Fender Champ, JCM800 and Matchless EN18. The Matchless sounds so good it made my kid dump reverb and not play Fender amps anymore and all he wanted was a Deluxe Reverb.
Plus there’s always a tiny amount of voltage going across the presence in older Marshall’s and that’s why some people complain that their presence control is making a scratchy sound. There’s nothing wrong at all it’s the voltage going across the potentiometer
Interesting, how was that eliminated eventuality?
@@JohanSegeborn : The circuit was changed slightly plus there’s other slight mods you can do. A cap was added to the phase inverter side to help shunt AC and while the 4.7K resistor stayed on the potentiometer to help with the DC noise going across it.
Great vid Johan but how about later MArshall series amp such as the JCM800/900's?
Thanks! Super lead/bass and 50W lead/bass was actually continuing throughout the 80s in JCM800 and the master volume circuits like 2204 and 2203 also continued with the principle regarding NFB. Don’t know about the JCM800 Channel switching amps like 2205 and 2210 though and I’m not familiar with the 900 circuits, besides the fact that MKIII was the most similar to the old amps. Cheers
@@JohanSegeborn Thanks Johan. I have a JCM800 myself hence wondering. You da besh!
I think the full presence setting sounds better by itself but in a mix I think it would get a bit lost compared to the zero presence setting. That's just pure punch!
Back in my Death Metal days I used presence as treble on my marshals (bass 10, mid 10, treble 0, presence 6) LP downtuned to B.
Thanks, interesting! What cabs did you use?
@@JohanSegeborn I used two 'new' Marshall TV cabs with modern greenbacks. That is probably why I hated the trebles hahaha. The amp I used was a 1987x from '79. Little did I know of speakers back then.
Interesting demonstration. I liked the tone without it, but then you switched over to 100% presence and the whole thing lit up and it was way better.
Neither tone was bad, both were very usable, but the presence control made it better.
I love these videos. I like presence on 10 and treble set low, on any amps that have a presence control. It sounds more interesting on the top end. I'll often run a fairly treble-laden tone into distortion and cut the treble on the pedal, too, if I'm using a pedal instead of an amp for distortion.
i think what is happening is that normally the bass tends to dominate the magnetic field in the output transformer. when one cranks up the presense then more high end can be restored to the signal to final. now the output transformer can produce the more subtle hi frequency content as its not clobbered by bass/mid frequencies. and yes led zeppelin to.
man, that's incredible! i never thought to try that. what a difference. thanks for this one. =)
EUREKA indeed 🤯
It was interesting just how very different the same Amp could sound because of the Presence setting. Thanks
I use an HX Stomp Modeler, and have almost always turned down the Presence Parameter to help get rid of high frequency fizz on the Presets.
Thanks!
In the modeler world you kinda have to be your own mix engineer. try putting the mics in the cab block a bit further from center, mix a darker one with a brighter one, and add a high cut at 10-12khz! :)
@@void_snw The Cab Block is probably the best place tame the excessive high, harsh frequencies that occur in some Modelers. About 1.5 years ago, I was informed by Brian Wampler that most guitar Speakers have a high frequency response that drops around 5kHz. I did further research, and found that it true, and some even have a lower cutoff. I then found that the "default" high cut on Line 6 Speaker Cab Block Presets is 8 kHz. My struggles to get their Presets to sound good was solved, and I usually set the Cab Block High Cut Parameter to about 5 kHz. I've been singing its praises ever since, as it's easy to do, reverse, and has consistently good results.
I usually prefer presence dialed higher than treble
Same here, often treble hits harder in the piercing 3kHz
I agree. The presence knob can have a dramatic effect. A good explanation and example!
You have excellent Marshall reviews. When I saw Keith Richards w/The Wino, back in 90 something, he obviously has the great Waddy Wachtel in his band. A legendary Les Paul/Marshall user. Waddy was playing, walked back to his stack, turned his Presence knob just. a bit, maybe from 5 to 6, and I swear you could hear the gain increase. The tone stack of Marshalls is widely misunderstood. It is all highly interactive. Tone is subjective as well. The Presence controls negative feedback. For some, starting at. ten and going to 0 works as well.
Thanks Eric! Yeah it’s indeed coupled. Cheers
I’ve always understood the Presence to be “off” at half/5, then cut or boost, according to taste. To me, that it’s there, implies it’s part of the amps overall designed sound. But, that’s all just IMO😉
Great thing to consider, though and good food for thought, as always👍👍
Thanks, yeah for all EQ knobs where is neutral?
lol! So true!
Presence is 'off' at 0. For all other controls it depends on the design. There are tone stack calculators online that show the effect of different designs. Jim Lill also talks about it in this good video
th-cam.com/video/wcBEOcPtlYk/w-d-xo.html
😊😊@@maartenvanhelden934
Never underestimate the power of Presence.
Hahaha! Your avatar comes in handy here
Another interesting video from Johan. Thanks for posting 👍
That Marshall into the vox cabinet is the coolest jangle tone ! I love it !
I keep presence on all my amps that have them (5F6A clone, 5E8A clone, Trainwreck Express clone) at 6 on a dial scale of 1 to 12.
Ace Frehley uses 50% too!
I always thought presence knob was out of the circuit when it was maxed out but maybe I’m wrong
No an inverted signal from the OT is fed back and blended with the input signal but first the presence knob rolls off the top end from the fed back signal so only bass and mids gets subtracted.
Great to hear this, I do love to see and hear your videos.
Generally i run presence at zero on my plexis, mid and treble hover around noon. But that depends on the room, i will if needed put some presence in there, but never above noon usually. And i do not jumper. The SV20 imo needs to be jumpered to fill it out.
Thanks!
Valuable info! This channel is great. Makes me not want to sell my DSL40… But I still can’t play at volumes you demonstrate.
Get an attenuator.
👍
A great setting that Robin Trower uses is Middle on 10, Bass on 10, Treble 0, Presence 0.
Helps mitigate the bright cap. Especially if your using single coils like he does.
Interesting settings!
I like the sound without presence
basically it's the same idea as the fuzz face just with a smaller cap in the feedback.. meaning you likely could put a larger cap in the presence ciruit and get fuzz..
the Bandit Silverstripe was a presence and resonance unit with a nice gain structure when using the T-Dynamic.
not really into tube amps at all... I liked my GT212 Crate with Germanium Fuzz Face and Treble boost in front did everything I wanted out of a Series-Parallel Humbucker Junior add a TBX tone pot.
everything
Hi! Well a Fuzz does indeed increase sparkle when you roll the guitar volume down. I have to reflect a bit to understand the connection though. Cheers
@JohanSegeborn it's the same method a feedback loop.. around a non inverted network.
I love the tones you usually cook up but in this case I thought they both sounded pretty awful for different reasons. The zero presence one sounded flat, dead, uninspiring and the full presence one shrill and unpleasantly bright. I find that odd since I love my SV20H and it sounds stellar on just about anything.
Maybe it was the guitar or the VOX's combo speaker, but I think this goes to show that extreme settings on post-gain tonestack amps rarely yield good results. You're better off trying a whole different kind of amp than trying to arm-wrestle a certain type of circuit into a tone it maybe wasn't really designed for.
Pre-gain tonestack amps (Mesa Marks, some Fenders) are a different story though.
Thanks glad you usually like the tones! I had a Marshall V30 with a greenback cone in this box cab. To get clear findings here I don’t play with the spatial arrangements I usually include to only make the amp sound good. I actually liked these tones, but they’re indeed pretty naked
I agree as well. 0 sounded flat, 100% too shrill. 25-75% is a good range to use, not the extremes.
An important tone shaping tool for sure . One of my tonal requirements when buying an amp .
Cheers
Excellent approach.
Thanks!
Nice art selection!
Thanks! 😉
Great explanation 🎉
Full of Ideas👍
I would always crank my presence when I was a kid. I haven't had a real marshall in a while. I wonder if my ear has changed. I've been playing a lot of jazz but the little Jimmy page and Angus Young in me is always ready for more presence.
Hi Dan!
Weirdly enough, Angus historically kept his presence really low, usually no higher than 1. The brightness in his sound comes primarily from pushing so much volume through 25W Greenbacks, and the sort of chimey sound of T-Tops.
@@clux5305 I don’t think Jimmy Page had his very high either I just was kind of referring to the Marshall rock and roll thing. I wish I didn’t live in an apartment or I’d probably own ten Marshall amps.
The presence knob also has a bit of a compression/saturation effect of high end frequencies. With it in the off position you get a more open, transient, vox-like tone and with it dialed all in you get a more smooth, fender-type compression
Too much broken English to just figure out there are too many broken thoughts