Fuel Pump Diagnosis & Fix Part 2/2 - Diesel IDI Ford - Electric vs. Mechanical
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.ย. 2024
- bossrig.com - Fuel Pump Diagnosis & Fix Part 2/2 - Diesel IDI Ford - Electric vs. Mechanical Lift Pump.
Air Dog Fuel Pump and Filtration Systems:
www.pureflowair...
FASS Fuel Pumps and Filtration Systems:
fass-fuel-pumps...
Used your ideas and mounted a universal electric lift pump nearby the old mechanical lift pump (rating was 6-9 PSI), along with low cost universal fuel filter and automotive relay. Less than $60 for everything including some rubber fuel line & clamps. Bypassed the old lift pump and tapped into the hard line from it to the IDI fuel filter housing. Thanks! Works Great!
Very nice video (exposure, audible audio, steady shots) your explanation of wiring the the signal wire to the relay/electric fuel pump was very helpful.
Thanks. Always trying to make the YT videos better.
Nicely done. You helped this newbie to think logically for a diagnosis.
Many thanks. That's a very concise, informative and helpful tutorial.
You are very welcome! Thanks for watching.
You are thorough sir; nice video! I'm having the same issues with my truck...but as soon as I read the truck has a diaphragm operated lift pump that's no doubt over 20yrs old there's no further diagnosis necessary. Rubber diaphragm's almost never last more than 20yrs typically. If that's not the issue I'll be be solving a future issue anyway.
Nice video, and good job fixing it. I don't think the lobe inside the engine wore off. I think its a cam lobe on the cam shaft. The mech lift pump will wear out before that thing does. The only thing I liked about my Ford was the 4x4. Those dang glow plugs were a pain too. The cummins has no glow plugs to burn out just a very relieable heater grid in the intake. Mine starts even if I don't let it heat up. The Ford in the winter, better plug it in if you need to get to work.
Asphaultenes settle out of fuel when it sits too long or over time. Buildup in the tank of this extremely sticky sludge will eventually get sucked up to block things only to settle out once suction bleeds off. You can back blow the line and hear bubbles...but it will suck up again. Tank cleaning required...and maybe extra filtration to 2 microns. Don't ask me how I know. And running off a fuel can, the fuel goes fast as much of it is being cycled back to one tank or another regardless.
I agree about the gunk. With this temporary can setup, I had the return line running to the can so it could work for 12-15 miles theoretically .. before it needed a refill. I only used it to move it around the property and maybe to the store and back until it was all fixed.
The same thing happen to my 93 f250. What i did to fix the issue was to put the same 12d fuel pump inline at each tank before the selector valve and wire it in with the valve wiring thru use of a relay. after the valve i put a holley blue pump inline. and wired it up to the I/P fuel solenoid. the 12d only pulls 3 to 5 amps. The blue pump is the same amp rating as the 12d. all together with the cost of the g2 fuel filter i put before the 12d and the holley blue the total cost was about 350.00
@maxhauler its got alot of hard miles on it tho. the pumps inline before the valve is something that i wanted to try. i had to do something to get it back going because my 150 needs work.
@seniorjohnl Going with my OCD/engineer mindset... By old school definitions lift pumps work by raising a column of liquid then releasing it on the output side, letting gravity supply the flow to a lower point, ie, they don't supply much pressure. I'm guessing the lift pump here delivers fuel at pretty low positive pressure via built-in bleeds and a clogged filter wouldn't neccessarily cause an over-pressure condition on the input side. To really isolated the filter, a sensor @input and @output
well done, good temp fix, good logic, and safe.
come to find the Lobe inside the engine that operates the mechanical pump is worn off. so im just going to completely remove the mechanical pump and put a block off plate in place of it
Can you please do a vid on how to do that fuel system from the start I can’t afford to send my truck to a shop
@maxhauler All good explanations here, it makes sense now. john
I just found your channel and been watching these videos on your fuel problems here. I Sub'ed & Liked. I've got an old 1987 model truck and it does great still today. I am very curious as to what brand and type of filters you get on your truck.
Thanks for your support! I just get the OEM filters or the highest quality I can buy off the shelf, which usually means a filter made by Fram, even if it is re-branded. For my Cummins, my filters were made by Mopar (OEM) and on my Ford diesels I forget the exact name of who made them but they were also OEM. My long term plans, which are on hold since I don't currently own a diesel truck .. is to install an after-market, high-performance fuel pump and filter system, perhaps one made by FASS or of a similar quality. I don't buy the cheapo version of many things in my life, least of all things like fuel and oil filters.
thanks for the info. i cant wait to try it out.
I know it is old video but do you have to bleed air in the injectors when you change the add on fuel filter?
so you need to purge the air out of system at the injector head ?
Yeah that's a common thing to need to do on most any kind of diesel engine if there is any chance of air in there. Got to go right to the end of the fuel system (at the point of the injector) to get the air out .. otherwise the air can just sit there and get squeezed like a spring over and over by the injection pump but never allow enough pressure to actually open the injector and let the air pass through because the air pockets will absorb all the energy needed to open the injector. It's the only way you can purge air that got that far in the system in many cases. Applies to VWs, bulldozers, mercedes, IDIs, cummins .. everything except maybe common rail electronic engines .. but even then a similar need exists on the common rail to bleed any air out in some designs. Not that I'm an expert on new engines or anything .. but the old ones are easy to understand. Similar reason we bleed brakes at the far end of the system too .. right before the caliper pistons.
I had the same problem with my 1988 F Super duty thought the lines were pluged took them off and blew them out not fixed, new manuel pump. Still no fuel out pump discharge line I am thinking now the lobe that runs the manuel pump is wore down so I am installing an electric pump. My fuel filter lite also came on like yours. Thanks for the info.
+dirtdobber1959 did you get your truck running
Maybe I'm being simplistic, but what about checking output from mechanical pump first. No output, check flow between it and tanks. Electric pump shows flow is fine ( not blocked), replace bad mechanical pump.
That doesn't address the replace filter error, which would have thrown me.
When you had the issue with the truck the night it went out was fuel leaking ? I have a 89 f250 7.3 and my truck was shaking and leaking fuel. What I found out it the mechanical fuel pump is bad.
The night before it completely gave out it died a few times and the fuel dash warning light came on. I think this warning light is triggered by the sensor on the filter head when pressure POST-filter is too low. So it warns of a bad pump or blockage situation as well as a clogged filter. (Please confirm .. the dash light says FUEL FILTER if I recall correctly.) Anyhow. A bad pump, bad leak, or blockage could all cause these symptoms. I think it is all good to go with an original mechanical pump and of course there are lots of low cost or high cost options.
ive gone through 2 starters and always had to bleed the lines, so im thinking this is the answer
Very clever Einstein!, lol. The stock mechanical fuel pump is only about $23. at O'reilleys and that is with a life time warranty. I would just replace the stock pump and add in a tee fitting on the tank side of the mechanical fuel pump and then plumb the pressure sides of both the electric and mechanical fuel pumps together, maybe with a selector valve there so if by chance the mechanical pumps fails you again sometime you could just simply flip a switch and activate your electric pump. There is a check valve in the mechanical pump to stop back flow to the tank when the engine is turned off.
In the video I explain that this setup was only for temporary purposes to be able to move the truck and not have to tow it while I diagnosed what the problem was. The ultimate plan was to install a high quality electrical pump with integrated filter near the tank. I was willing to spend up to $500 on that and you can spend a lot more too.
What is the Schrader valve in your original fuel filter assembly used for. I've seen many change their filter but never mention what that valve is for.
Being located at the highest point in the fuel system and in particular on the top of the fuel filter, the main purpose is no doubt to bleed air out of the system and assist in priming a system that has air in it, perhaps from a filter change. Also, it is a way to test if your lift pump is working as the factory mechanical lift pump is the next thing in line upstream towards the fuel source, located down on the right front corner of the engine block. So 1. air bleed valve. 2. fuel pump test.
@@maxhauler Yes that makes perfect sense. I just wondered though because I've heard of engines running rough for a few moments after the fuel filters were changed because of air but never ever have seen anyone utilize that Schroeder valve. So thanks for making it clear .
@@johnnyohness6610 glad to help. for sure try to bleed air out of a diesel fuel system if you ever suspect some got in there. sometimes the pumps in the system cannot push the air through because the air pockets act like 'springs' and just absorb the pressure impulses from the pumps. I say pumps plural because some vehicles actually have 3 pumps. 1 the lift pump, 2 a feed pump built into the injection pump and 3 the high pressure part of the injection pump. lots of places for air to sit there absorbing the pressure impulses .. with no fuel moving through.
hey I'm trying to this exact setup only confused on the relay where the wires go based off pos and neg
The relays are really standard and you can find a diagram online to show you which pins are what. Search for some model number stamped in the plastic of the relay or just look up something generic. Not much variance on basic 12 volt lighting relays. Ground is ground. Then the important 12V+ Key-on wire you want to trigger the relay with is the one which goes to the fuel shut-off solenoid on the side of your injection pump. See video. One of the two remaining relay terminals goes to Battery positive (but with a 10-12 A fuse inline for sure) and the final terminal (correctly determined from your schematic diagram) goes to your fuel pump. When the relay closes it connects this line to the pump positive to your fused battery positive. The pump has its own ground connection too. When you Key-on, the line to the fuel shut-off solenoid goes 12V+, now also going to your relay trigger(coil positive) terminal.
so something like this is going on with me I was just driving on the interstate 3 days ago in my 250 6.9 idi and the motor just cuts out wont start wont start wont start 5-15 min later she fires up did it 3 more times before I got home and after that night it wont start anymore you think it could be same thing?
@Babylon falling fuel pump is dying
wow, that was smart
Well thanks but saving money was the source of all inspiration in this scenario.
dude your so lucky you have a dual tank system you can just put veggie in one tank and diesel in the other and start on diesel and switch to veggie as soon as shes warm
did u ever figured out ur isssue
Fuel pressure gauge at the fuel head would have saved you lots of time in diagnosis, but still good detective work
I have a 1988 f250 7.3 diesel. I use the rear tank all day and its fine. I switch to forward tank and like 5 mins later i get intermittent sputtering and then a minute later it cuts off. Can you tell me what's wrong please
sounds like you may have dry rotted fuel lines on the front tank letting some air into the system, check all the connections for the front tank as well. You could also have an issue with the pickup tube in the tank, they can rust out some times.
Or tank could be full of algae, diesel does go bad!
@@skipperup If it gets water in it ....The tank is junk.... I've never been able to get the black slime to completely go away... I just replace the tank.... For $120 no cleaning involved!
genius!
That's very nice of you, but really it all come from not having a lot of extra money to spend on this thing .. and trying really hard to not have to pay a towing fee especially.
What pump did you end up getting couldn't find vid of it I'm looking to get the dura lift facet electric lift pump cost 150 bucks I'll post vid once parts come in and my did the same thing with fuel filter light come on and later left me stranded
I never got that far. Life happened and the trucks are long gone. It's all about small tractors now! I would recommend something but I'm not up to date on the topic any more.
What amp breaker did u use
The little pump I used was an aftermarket. I don't recall the rating. Sold this truck years ago. If you know the Maximum Amperage Current draw of a device or electric motor in this case, then you should match that number with the fuse you protect it with. Maybe pick a fuse just 5 Amps higher, but not more than that because then you will not be getting enough protection. This little pump came with 14 or 16 Guage wires and for a wire-length of a few feet at most, this would put the recommended/safe current draw of that wire at about 10-15 Amps, the that's the clue that the wire size is giving us. Personally, from experience, I would think this little pump draws maybe 5 Amps, give or take as an approximate guess. So based on all of that, if I were you I would use a 10 Amp fuse and if that is blowing, use a 15 Amp. In fact this little pump might draw less and you could even start out with a 5 Amps fuse. The smallest fuse you can get away with offers you the most protection, but of course you don't want to be blowing your fuel pump fuse for no good reason. 10 Amps if I had to pick one number for a little pump like this. Hope that helps.
That vid helps me , I just got 1988 F250 for free because it didnt run. I could shoot with WD 40 and it fires up but not keep running.
These engines are half-million mile engines or more when maintained well, but even then, expect to REPLACE the fuel pump and all injectors at about every 150,000. The cost is reasonable and worth it and these engines run really nice on a good/new fuel system. You do see a lot of them running very dirty and rough but that is usually what they need. You should start by cracking open the injectors a little and see if some or none of them get fuel. Then work backwords, through the system, looking where your cannot .. or can, get fuel coming through.
I broke this connector while changing diesel pump and injectors, can't find it online, by any chance do you part # or proper name??thanks
I dunno. It's just basic wiring. Soldering your own connections is better anyhow. Probably a basic connector of any kind in the parts store might be better than a standard for one. Just replace both ends with something good and solder it. Would be better than factor then.
Save yourself a lot of work and just get a Cummins. I paid $4600 for a Ford IDI in 2005. All I did was work on it and it was a pain in the ass. I sold it after the auto trans puked out 10 quarts of trans fluid. If that ever happens to you just let it cool down and put new trans fluid back in and it will not leak for a few hundred miles. My 96 cummins with a five speed I bought for $3k with 128k miles in 2008. It's ten times better than that Ford POS.