Great review Kyriakos! I got a Spitfire 840 and been absolutely loving it for winging. Paired with Skinny 360/45 rear. 75kg. Sold my HPS930 and ART899 and intend to fill out my quiver with the S960 and S720. I echo your comments on control, it feels totally stable at speed. It's a very fast foil! And the responsiveness and turning are so much fun. Just overall the most fun foil I've ever ridden. Hope to see you in La Ventana this season!
Yes definitely the most fun! And it always pushes you to go one step further! I think that quiver you are planning sounds super good and will get you out there in all conditions! I will be in La Ventana from the 1st of January! Hopefully see you there…
I am trying to figure out what if any advantages the HPS has over the spitfire. How would you generally rank the spitfire range against the HPS and ART ranges in the following categories: highest top speed, lowest stall speed, glide, ease/technicality of getting up on foil, turnability, general control/comfort, pumpability, pitch sensitivity, sensitivity to 'turbulent water', and rider skill level requirements ? 1 would be best and 3 would be worst in each of the categories. This is assuming each foils are in their sweet spots for a given wind speed. FWIW, between HPS and ART, this is which foil I would rate the best in each category (YMMV): ART. highest top speed HPS. lowest stall speed ART. glide HPS. ease/technicality of getting up on foil HPS. turnability HPS. general control/comfort, Tie. pumpability Tie. pitch sensitivity HPS. sensitivity to 'turbulent water' HPS. rider skill level requirement Great channel BTW. The information is very helpful and well presented.
Thank you for your review. I have the following questions: 1. Where are you wing foiling? 2. My current main foil is HPS 1050 (from PNG 1150 & PNG 1010) although I use HPS 930 time to time too (depending on the wind). Do you think it is worth changing to Spitfire 1030?. My level is comfortable on jibing, but still working on my tacking
Hi @Tobeon2 I am glad you enjoyed the video! 1. Our main spot is in Rhodes, Greece at Reckless Riders wingfoil club! Check out the insta link in the description if you want to see move action from there. It is good for all levels and progression. 2. I think it will be fine! It should feel about the same to start and once you get used to it you will feel the control I mention as well as the ease with which it turns and glides. There is not a but difference between the two foils though so I would have them in the same quiver. If its to replace it then yes its a good foil! Like I mentioned the Spitfire is a little trickier in controlling the pitch (you get used to it) but in most other aspects I think it is better. Hope that helps!
I windsurf today with Art 899 and 1099. Do you think Spitfire (840) is a good option to get more surf feeling when foiling. Usualy pretty flat water with some 0.5m bumps that i like to carve and surf.
@@kristianjansson451 windsurf? Are you talking about windsurf foiling? In any case if you want a more surfy feeling Spitfire will always do the job. But it will have less speed and glide than an ART
@@kristianjansson451 i am not very knowledgeable about windsurf foiling but if I am not mistaken, higher aspect foiling work better. So if you are looking for something that is surfier, smoother and offers all around more control and a better feeling then maybe try the ART V2. The spitfire tend to be for more aggressive surf and offer more lift as a foil
I'm 105 Kg bought a 1030 SF and get up and go with 12 knots paired with a 365 Progressive Axis. Can I get faster lift if I change the rear pitch on the Prog. 365 ? and what size fuselage is best paired with this set up. Thanks for your comments,
@@EricHoyt-p8n hi Eric, I dont have much experience changing the pitch on the rears to be honest! However, keep in mind that if you change it for the earlier start it will also affect the lift during your riding. So if you are perfectly balanced and happy with your setup while riding it might not be worth the change. As for fuse I use Adv+ crazyshort and ultrashort with all my spitfires. Adv+ for more aggressive turning but you can also ride normal if thats what you prefer.
I believe that the reason that you can breach this foil is more related to the elliptical shape of the leading edge. That shape "sheds" the water towards the outside (towards the tips). Think of water moving across the foil but also slipping from the center towards the tips. That means that when you breach (aerate the foil) the air doesn't get stuck on the leading edge. With a flat leading edge (like the ART) the once you breach the air will actually travel towards the fuselage and you stall (aerate). Makes sense?
I would say in a simple explanation the BSC is super carvy but much user friendlier and with an amazingly easy start, even at low winds and speeds. The Spitfire however will offer a lot more glide, pump ability and control but a little harder to use and to start on. If you are at a high level of winging and dont mind the extra effort the spitfire will offer more. If you are looking for easy the BSC is great.
thanks for the review! Ive been kitesurfing since 2010, and wanna move to wing foil on lakes, most of the time on light winds, pumping when no wind and surf foil (all arround). I'm 82 kg, what would you recomend? S1030 or S960? with black short fuselage and 375 progresive end. 82 alum mast. What do you think? Thankes for the help
@@rodrigoschmidtb hey! Its hard to say without knowing all the details but if you want to make life easy in light winds go for the 1030! Very easy to start and still carves super nicely for its size. Also very comfortable to pump
Thanks Kyriakos. Quick question. I am looking for a quiver of foils for prone and wing foiling. What other sizes would you recommend to cover low - high wind as well as small wave prone foiling through to tow in on bigger stuff. I live in Auckland NZ. I am 97kg and currently have a spitfire 960 and an ART 1099 and ART 899. I use the spitfire for wing foiling when there is swell and the ARTs for flatter water wing foiling days. I have 30+ years of experience surfing, did 6 years of kite surfing, and have been getting into foiling over the last year. I can gibe, switch feet and occasionally tack, so i guess i am somewhere in the early intermediate experience range?
Hi! Glad you liked the video! I am not sure exactly what you want to give you a good answer but I will recommend the Spitfires if you are looking for foils to both prone and wing. I also find that once you get used to them you can get going in pretty light winds so for example I tend to use the smaller Spitfires suck as 780 most days that I will go out (I am 100kg). The ART definitely works better in smoother conditions, where as the spitfires have no problem in conditions ranging from flat to messy to big waves. If you are looking for a smaller foil than what you have the spitfire 840 is one of the most popular for prone and works fantastically on the wing. Although at your weight and level I would maybe recommend the 900 but seeing as how you have the 960 then I would go straight for a 840. As for bigger foil I would replace the ART 1099 with a Spitfire 1030 or even 1100 if you want to cover very low winds. In your case the bigger ArtPros could work better but I havent tried enough of them to recommend them to you. If you want to try different models you could also look into the bigger HPS for winging, they tend to be a little easier but still very nice and impressive foils especially in low winds. I hope this helps or else dont hesitate to keep the conversation going!
@@kyriakosgiakoumaroswingandwind Super interesting - I'm at the 100kg mark. With 30+ years windsurfing and wavesailing. Keen to look at this winging thing next year for marginal light days 10 - 15knts. Want to play in waves / ocean swells at same time. Your guidance is super interesting.
@@Floatnride i am glad you are enjoying the videos! You are in the same situation like me (although the learning in for lightwinds part backfired for me 😂) sonI think you will pick it up easily and fast! There is nothing like playing in the waves with a foil! You are always welcome to Reckless Riders to start you wingfoiling journey!
Thanks for the info Kyriakos. FYI i have tried the Spitfire 960 for proning (only three sessions) and struggled with the amount of lift it had. Like it for winging however. It is currently my favorite foil in all conditions.
Great review! How much more wind/power do you think the SF720 needs to get foiling compared to the SF780? Is there a big difference in the amount of glide?
Not that different! The 720 is just a bit more explosive, a bit faster and generally a bit more responsive and aggressive but you dont sacrifice much or need much more wind! However the spitfires have so much control that going bigger is also not a problem unless you are very light. If you are a heavy rider trying to go to the smallest possible you will most likely enjoy the 780 more for an all around foil
From what I've seen it's a very orthodox, predictable use of Ludwig Prandtl's elliptical span loading formulae to ease simulation, with a fairly flat under chord and a fairly central peak chord thickness. You can see the chord thickness mirrored in the forward and backwards plan section. I haven't tried them but we have some good reviews of them by our local riders. It's interesting listening to people's design rationales. It's not the direction I've headed with my own last couple of designs which use a couple of chord profile change themes over their span to special effect but I love to see how each designer tries to get their own best solutions.
Great review, thanks! 🤙 How would you describe the main differences between the BSC810 (which you also really enjoy in waves, according to your other video), and the spitfire? And what SF size would you choose to swap out the 810?
The spitfire has more glide and control on the carves! Also way better pumping… but the BSC has easier starting in light winds and crazy pop if you jump and is all around an easier more forgiving foil! I would most likely replace an 810 with the 840 or 900! I havent really thought of what I would switch each other with
Hey! I dont believe there is a 930 spitfire (correct me if I am wrong) but yes the 960 would be pretty close I guess to the HPS 980. I personally like going quite small on my spitfires so would go straight for a 900 but really depends on conditions and style. They have plenty of lift but not uncontrollable in any way. I have ridden big days over rigged on a spitfire and still had plenty of fun
Hey bro. I'm 78kg and have been winging the HPS880 in anything stronger than 12knots. Which spitfire would you say would be a replacement for me? The 900 or 840? I'm looking for something more playful to wing and to give a go at proning (beginner prone foiler). Thanks mate!
I would go for the 840 or lower! I am a much heavier guy and can use the 900 in pretty light conditions for winging. But if you also want prone as a beginner maybe dont go too small! Thats why i say 840 (maybe smaller depending on your level and efficiency)
I've been using the 1150png/460 combo for the last couple years. I ride mostly flat water and love it. Does everything I need. Looking for something different though. Would the Spitfire 1100 get up as early as the 1150? I'm 73kg, 90l board and winds are mostly in the 10-15 knot range.
It will need a bit more board speed than the 1150 to get up since it's thinner. But at 10-15kts that won't be a problem! You might want to think about getting the 1030 instead of the 1100. It should work in 10+kts as well. So you'll have the 1150 for low winds and the 1030 for everything above. Oh and get a smaller stab - you'll notice it when turning. The skinny rears are great for the spitfires (e.g. the 360/45).
@@stkl23 I'm also riding the 1150png/400p combo as my main low wind setup. Looking for something quicker and more fun in higher winds >12kts, would the 1030sf/360s fit the bill? I'm also considering the artpro
@@velocityprodns Yes the 1030/365 combo should be fine for that. ARTPros are also great foils. I have the 1201 and the 1401. Both are excellent in low wind when paired with a downwind board. The advantage of those black fuselage foils is that they cause much less drag in the water which keeps you up longer.
Great review Kyriakos! I got a Spitfire 840 and been absolutely loving it for winging. Paired with Skinny 360/45 rear. 75kg. Sold my HPS930 and ART899 and intend to fill out my quiver with the S960 and S720. I echo your comments on control, it feels totally stable at speed. It's a very fast foil! And the responsiveness and turning are so much fun. Just overall the most fun foil I've ever ridden. Hope to see you in La Ventana this season!
Yes definitely the most fun! And it always pushes you to go one step further! I think that quiver you are planning sounds super good and will get you out there in all conditions!
I will be in La Ventana from the 1st of January! Hopefully see you there…
I am trying to figure out what if any advantages the HPS has over the spitfire. How would you generally rank the spitfire range against the HPS and ART ranges in the following categories: highest top speed, lowest stall speed, glide, ease/technicality of getting up on foil, turnability, general control/comfort, pumpability, pitch sensitivity, sensitivity to 'turbulent water', and rider skill level requirements ? 1 would be best and 3 would be worst in each of the categories. This is assuming each foils are in their sweet spots for a given wind speed.
FWIW, between HPS and ART, this is which foil I would rate the best in each category (YMMV):
ART. highest top speed
HPS. lowest stall speed
ART. glide
HPS. ease/technicality of getting up on foil
HPS. turnability
HPS. general control/comfort,
Tie. pumpability
Tie. pitch sensitivity
HPS. sensitivity to 'turbulent water'
HPS. rider skill level requirement
Great channel BTW. The information is very helpful and well presented.
Thank you for your review. I have the following questions:
1. Where are you wing foiling?
2. My current main foil is HPS 1050 (from PNG 1150 & PNG 1010) although I use HPS 930 time to time too (depending on the wind). Do you think it is worth changing to Spitfire 1030?. My level is comfortable on jibing, but still working on my tacking
Hi @Tobeon2 I am glad you enjoyed the video!
1. Our main spot is in Rhodes, Greece at Reckless Riders wingfoil club! Check out the insta link in the description if you want to see move action from there. It is good for all levels and progression.
2. I think it will be fine! It should feel about the same to start and once you get used to it you will feel the control I mention as well as the ease with which it turns and glides. There is not a but difference between the two foils though so I would have them in the same quiver. If its to replace it then yes its a good foil! Like I mentioned the Spitfire is a little trickier in controlling the pitch (you get used to it) but in most other aspects I think it is better.
Hope that helps!
I windsurf today with Art 899 and 1099. Do you think Spitfire (840) is a good option to get more surf feeling when foiling. Usualy pretty flat water with some 0.5m bumps that i like to carve and surf.
@@kristianjansson451 windsurf? Are you talking about windsurf foiling? In any case if you want a more surfy feeling Spitfire will always do the job. But it will have less speed and glide than an ART
@@kyriakosgiakoumaroswingandwind yes windsurf foiling. thanks for the answer!
@@kristianjansson451 i am not very knowledgeable about windsurf foiling but if I am not mistaken, higher aspect foiling work better. So if you are looking for something that is surfier, smoother and offers all around more control and a better feeling then maybe try the ART V2. The spitfire tend to be for more aggressive surf and offer more lift as a foil
I'm 105 Kg bought a 1030 SF and get up and go with 12 knots paired with a 365 Progressive Axis. Can I get faster lift if I change the rear pitch on the Prog. 365 ? and what size fuselage is best paired with this set up. Thanks for your comments,
@@EricHoyt-p8n hi Eric,
I dont have much experience changing the pitch on the rears to be honest! However, keep in mind that if you change it for the earlier start it will also affect the lift during your riding. So if you are perfectly balanced and happy with your setup while riding it might not be worth the change.
As for fuse I use Adv+ crazyshort and ultrashort with all my spitfires. Adv+ for more aggressive turning but you can also ride normal if thats what you prefer.
@@kyriakosgiakoumaroswingandwind thanks for your update. Will get used to the current set up.
I believe that the reason that you can breach this foil is more related to the elliptical shape of the leading edge. That shape "sheds" the water towards the outside (towards the tips). Think of water moving across the foil but also slipping from the center towards the tips. That means that when you breach (aerate the foil) the air doesn't get stuck on the leading edge. With a flat leading edge (like the ART) the once you breach the air will actually travel towards the fuselage and you stall (aerate). Makes sense?
Maybe! I think we need Adrian to answer that one with certainty 😆
How does the BSC 810 vs the SF 840 compare for carving and also pump ability for both surf and winging?
I would say in a simple explanation the BSC is super carvy but much user friendlier and with an amazingly easy start, even at low winds and speeds. The Spitfire however will offer a lot more glide, pump ability and control but a little harder to use and to start on. If you are at a high level of winging and dont mind the extra effort the spitfire will offer more. If you are looking for easy the BSC is great.
thanks for the review! Ive been kitesurfing since 2010, and wanna move to wing foil on lakes, most of the time on light winds, pumping when no wind and surf foil (all arround). I'm 82 kg, what would you recomend? S1030 or S960? with black short fuselage and 375 progresive end. 82 alum mast. What do you think? Thankes for the help
@@rodrigoschmidtb hey! Its hard to say without knowing all the details but if you want to make life easy in light winds go for the 1030! Very easy to start and still carves super nicely for its size. Also very comfortable to pump
@@kyriakosgiakoumaroswingandwind Thanks dude!!
@@rodrigoschmidtb no problem! Glad i could help
Thanks Kyriakos. Quick question. I am looking for a quiver of foils for prone and wing foiling. What other sizes would you recommend to cover low - high wind as well as small wave prone foiling through to tow in on bigger stuff. I live in Auckland NZ. I am 97kg and currently have a spitfire 960 and an ART 1099 and ART 899. I use the spitfire for wing foiling when there is swell and the ARTs for flatter water wing foiling days. I have 30+ years of experience surfing, did 6 years of kite surfing, and have been getting into foiling over the last year. I can gibe, switch feet and occasionally tack, so i guess i am somewhere in the early intermediate experience range?
Hi! Glad you liked the video!
I am not sure exactly what you want to give you a good answer but I will recommend the Spitfires if you are looking for foils to both prone and wing.
I also find that once you get used to them you can get going in pretty light winds so for example I tend to use the smaller Spitfires suck as 780 most days that I will go out (I am 100kg). The ART definitely works better in smoother conditions, where as the spitfires have no problem in conditions ranging from flat to messy to big waves.
If you are looking for a smaller foil than what you have the spitfire 840 is one of the most popular for prone and works fantastically on the wing. Although at your weight and level I would maybe recommend the 900 but seeing as how you have the 960 then I would go straight for a 840.
As for bigger foil I would replace the ART 1099 with a Spitfire 1030 or even 1100 if you want to cover very low winds. In your case the bigger ArtPros could work better but I havent tried enough of them to recommend them to you. If you want to try different models you could also look into the bigger HPS for winging, they tend to be a little easier but still very nice and impressive foils especially in low winds.
I hope this helps or else dont hesitate to keep the conversation going!
@@kyriakosgiakoumaroswingandwind Super interesting - I'm at the 100kg mark. With 30+ years windsurfing and wavesailing. Keen to look at this winging thing next year for marginal light days 10 - 15knts. Want to play in waves / ocean swells at same time. Your guidance is super interesting.
@@Floatnride i am glad you are enjoying the videos!
You are in the same situation like me (although the learning in for lightwinds part backfired for me 😂) sonI think you will pick it up easily and fast! There is nothing like playing in the waves with a foil! You are always welcome to Reckless Riders to start you wingfoiling journey!
Thanks for the info Kyriakos. FYI i have tried the Spitfire 960 for proning (only three sessions) and struggled with the amount of lift it had. Like it for winging however. It is currently my favorite foil in all conditions.
Great review! How much more wind/power do you think the SF720 needs to get foiling compared to the SF780? Is there a big difference in the amount of glide?
Not that different! The 720 is just a bit more explosive, a bit faster and generally a bit more responsive and aggressive but you dont sacrifice much or need much more wind! However the spitfires have so much control that going bigger is also not a problem unless you are very light.
If you are a heavy rider trying to go to the smallest possible you will most likely enjoy the 780 more for an all around foil
From what I've seen it's a very orthodox, predictable use of Ludwig Prandtl's elliptical span loading formulae to ease simulation, with a fairly flat under chord and a fairly central peak chord thickness. You can see the chord thickness mirrored in the forward and backwards plan section. I haven't tried them but we have some good reviews of them by our local riders. It's interesting listening to people's design rationales. It's not the direction I've headed with my own last couple of designs which use a couple of chord profile change themes over their span to special effect but I love to see how each designer tries to get their own best solutions.
Great review, thanks! 🤙
How would you describe the main differences between the BSC810 (which you also really enjoy in waves, according to your other video), and the spitfire? And what SF size would you choose to swap out the 810?
The spitfire has more glide and control on the carves! Also way better pumping… but the BSC has easier starting in light winds and crazy pop if you jump and is all around an easier more forgiving foil! I would most likely replace an 810 with the 840 or 900! I havent really thought of what I would switch each other with
@@kyriakosgiakoumaroswingandwind thanks for your reply! 🤙
I’m currently on a HPS 980. What would be a comparable Spitfire? 960 or 930? I’ve heard they have more lift…
Hey! I dont believe there is a 930 spitfire (correct me if I am wrong) but yes the 960 would be pretty close I guess to the HPS 980. I personally like going quite small on my spitfires so would go straight for a 900 but really depends on conditions and style.
They have plenty of lift but not uncontrollable in any way. I have ridden big days over rigged on a spitfire and still had plenty of fun
@@kyriakosgiakoumaroswingandwind you are right on there being no 930 spitfire. Was confusing it with the HPS 930. Thanks for the advice!
@@BrookStein hope it helps! Dont hesitate to ask anything else
Hey bro. I'm 78kg and have been winging the HPS880 in anything stronger than 12knots. Which spitfire would you say would be a replacement for me? The 900 or 840?
I'm looking for something more playful to wing and to give a go at proning (beginner prone foiler).
Thanks mate!
I would go for the 840 or lower! I am a much heavier guy and can use the 900 in pretty light conditions for winging. But if you also want prone as a beginner maybe dont go too small! Thats why i say 840 (maybe smaller depending on your level and efficiency)
@@kyriakosgiakoumaroswingandwind Thanks for that bro...appreciate it!
I've been using the 1150png/460 combo for the last couple years. I ride mostly flat water and love it. Does everything I need. Looking for something different though. Would the Spitfire 1100 get up as early as the 1150? I'm 73kg, 90l board and winds are mostly in the 10-15 knot range.
It will need a bit more board speed than the 1150 to get up since it's thinner. But at 10-15kts that won't be a problem! You might want to think about getting the 1030 instead of the 1100. It should work in 10+kts as well. So you'll have the 1150 for low winds and the 1030 for everything above. Oh and get a smaller stab - you'll notice it when turning. The skinny rears are great for the spitfires (e.g. the 360/45).
@@stkl23 I'm also riding the 1150png/400p combo as my main low wind setup. Looking for something quicker and more fun in higher winds >12kts, would the 1030sf/360s fit the bill? I'm also considering the artpro
@@velocityprodns Yes the 1030/365 combo should be fine for that. ARTPros are also great foils. I have the 1201 and the 1401. Both are excellent in low wind when paired with a downwind board. The advantage of those black fuselage foils is that they cause much less drag in the water which keeps you up longer.
🤔 'promosm'
>???? Sorry I dont understand.