I actually loved the epilogue. Because it’s a letdown, it’s sad, it feels weird, it feels off. And I think that’s perfect, because I feel like if it had just ended as a snapshot we probably would’ve romanticized what happened afterwords, or dramatized it. I think seeing their lives moving forwards made us realize that their pretensions couldn’t last, it showed how life after something like that isn’t dramatic or romantic, they aren’t living in a classic. It’s slow, and boring, and sad, and dull, and it’s not right, which is exactly how it reads.
@Lauren Fleischer I think it gets across the message of grief, seeing the whole group break up. Because the whole second half of the book is the characters’ lives going downhill and watching how Richard’s romanticized view of them gets ripped to shreds. The ending feels like the culmination of that.
huge letdown. why i love it and am frustrated every time. the genius of this book is in saying a million things without ever actually explaining why. the characters are playing a game with no rules just for the sake of doing it... there is no moral teaching or solid takeaway. its painful because in the end its just a sad middle aged man who will never have closure and who will only grow old without coming of age in any triumphant or even tragic way. it just happens to him. and he doesnt learn thats okay.
unpopular opinion: the epilogue was a genius artistic choice. the disappointment in life and absolute horror and dread of your fututr you felt while reading was incredible. sure i felt like shit but it was the perfect ending. it felt like the book really happened.
I think I disagree with you here. In my opinion the disenfranchisement and disappointment was slowly built up so much as an inevitability throughout the novel that meticulously describing it doesn’t serve much of a purpose other than to lay it out extremely clearly to the reader. Personally, I would have much preferred leaving these characters immediately after the climax as they take their first steps on this inevitable journey to mediocrity.
Possibly it did. People including children and particularly elites get away with crimes including murder, frequently. There’s a Bunny in every group of masters of the universe. If there is no Bunny there’s always a girl, or someone “colored” or poor or outcast: a 🐐 . Her excitement, the reviewer, is a tad gross. Where’s the glee⁉️ The Narrater is not Nick, this narrator is a co conspirator, the scholarship kid who goes along with the in group. Grotesque like this review.
I fully agree, especially knowing what happened to Francis. And then the last dialogue between Camilla and Richard. For some reason it made me laugh. *spoilers* Camilla: I can’t marry you Richard Richard: why? Camilla: because I still love Henry. **me having a flashback to Henry at the hotel** Richard: Henry’s dead Me: **suddenly bursting out into laughter***
"It's a 5 star read with no right to be" THE TRUTH MA'AM Also, I think that the length of the scenes involving Bunny's funeral were to bring the reader back to Earth in regard to Bunny's murder. Without those scenes, I think we as the reader would be living too much in the fantasy and ambiance of the group's pretension. Bringing the reader back to the reality of a family with complicated and unromantic internal dynamics trying to mourn and deal with the loss of a brother/son helps to contrast the 'real' world with the world of the Greek group.
I felt the same way with that section! I felt like she accomplished that, for me at least. The family's grief felt so odd, like simultaneously realistically banal but also in some ways really quite sad. Sad because it was so... horrible and so bland, if that makes any sense. And it's in an entirely different world (close to what one might call the real world but not quite?) than most of the book. The scene of Henry dragging mud across his suit was a fantastic end to the "act", in my opinion.
I loved the epilogue because I thought it really nailed the point home that these kids thought they were destined for all this greatness & in their minds were above reproach/morals/the law & had this grand vision of life that they thought no one else could understand but ultimately in the end they were just people like everyone else & in killing Bunny they killed off their own potential for a fulfilling & meaningful life. Ugh this book is perfect for book club discussions, haha!
As far as unreliable narrators go, i think Richard might be my favourite. It’s done so subtly that you don’t start to notice it really until the end, and I love how the curtain is drawn back for the reader. In a way, this book is about what doesn’t happen and isn’t said just as much as what is. I think this is summarised in Francis’ note when he says “Forgive me, for all the things I did but mostly for what I did not”. The story that Richard tells writes over the truth again and again, and it’s that story underneath that is “the Secret History”
Your line that "this book is about what doesn't happen and isn't sad just as much as what is" is so good! It's true. Richard's narration leaves gaps that we have to fill in , but these gaps also tell us a lot about each character and I think it was a really effective and artful choice of the author to give us such an unreliable narrator
This was a really good video about a really good book. :) I think Donna Tartt made Bunny horrid before his death, and then made the other characters horrible after it. I don’t think Tartt wanted you to feel sorry for him, I think she wanted you to justify his murder and then show you that the murderers were just as bad as him, and have you question your original reaction.
I think she wanted you to justify this murder to yourself because you fall in love with the fantasy of these characters. And then when you start to discover how horrible they really are for doing it, you start to question yourself a little since you justified it too so are you terrible also? Loved this book so much!
Wow! You are absolutely right. I did not realize it until you pointed it out. The characters become less and less likely as the book draws to a conclusion
@parkerbava7083 FR this is why I love this book so much it makes you question your own morality and it's so easy to make you put on Richard's shoes cause he doesn't let us see too much inside his complicated mind, so he's the perfect "blank canvas" for us to project our own selves.
Bunny is the homophobic-racist-sexist-misogynist white male that you want to avoid as soon as possible. Henry is the alluring sociopath that you want to be best friend with. Francis..... Francis just needs a hug :'(
Re: the Winter; It is to this day probably my favourite section in the book. I always really like the sense of danger, and also how Richard thought that he was hallucinating Henry under the street lamp. I thought it was very ethereal and surreal, and acted sort of as a foreshadowing to the supernatural things to come. In a way, it sets up the atmosphere for the rest of the book where things just take a nose dive into the darker aspects of the story. I re-read this book every fall; its become a little tradition of mine. One January not too long ago, I was re-reading this book and at the time was living alone and barely employed; I was able to work enough to choose between buying groceries and putting my heat on. So the heat stayed off and I was able to eat most of the time. The Winter was already a section of the Secret History that stuck out in my brain, but it was something else entirely to be curled up on my couch with my fingers numb from cold, reading about Richard struggling to get coins into the pay phone in the snow. In a way, this section of the book is always going to haunt me, but its still a section I look forward to every time I pick this book up.
Beautifully put. What I love about the book is how it creates this rather strange world and pulls you in. It's why I keep re-reading the novel. I want to go back there. The cold, the snow, and the forests are part of a mythic timeless quality to the story.
This response just made me cry. I was in a bad place when I read The Old Man and the Sea. Something about the personal journey of being a reader makes me so emotional
Yeah, although I can see the section not matching the gothic vibe of the rest of the story, I could really feel it because something similar happened to me. I'm from a warm place and my university was the first place I saw real snow and felt the real winter. And during Christmas, all other students who were fairly local deserted the college and drove away and I did not have funds for flight tickets home and decided to stay instead. It was crazy, as one-by-one, the college cafeteria shut down, the bus services shut down, all clothing stores shut down (and I did not prepare by buying winter clothes beforehand) - and I finally had to rely on trudging through the snow all alone, getting frozen pizzas home, walking past cozy family houses with warm lights and dinners, back to my empty and cold apartment - chilling to my bones all alone. And when I read this section of the book, I knew the author felt what I felt.
I just finished the book like 15 minutes ago. From my point of view I don't think we were supposed to feel sad about Bunny's death. We were told in the first paragraph that he died, so there was no suspense of just 'someone will die at some point in this book.' The winter section was odd to me and I also kept wondering why it went on so long. The section that freaked me out the most though was Bunny's funeral from when they arrived to when they leave. I felt sick to my stomach at how it went down. Even as people were crying and the father was upset to me it seemed no one fully cared that he died. The fact at the end that Bunny's family nicknamed the new female baby "Bunny" was disturbing to me. It seemed like they were almost replacing him in this new little girl. For me I loved the epilogue. I wanted to know what happened and if it just ended without it I wouldn't have been happy with it. The fact that we got to see what happened to most of the characters I loved. I started tearing up at the idea that everyone went on to live their lives, but never fully fulfilled. Francis having to marry some girl to keep his money was heartbreaking and Charles running off with some random alcoholic. What struck me most was Camilla who was going to take care of her grandmother, lost her 'true love' Henry, and also lost her twin (a connection which from what I heard in real life is terribly strong). Plus not only did she loose her twin she also lost an abusive brother/lover all in a span of a few weeks was heartbreaking in a way. Although nobody got a happy ending, except Henry, I believe it was what they all deserved. MINUS FRANCIS who deserved the right to run away with a man he loved and be happy.
Thank you so much for this comment! I love hearing everyone's reactions to this book. You're right about the baby - I didn't even really think about it at the time (because there is SO MUCH going on) but it is a weird, almost robotic feeling reusing his name.
When I finished this book I cried because of Henry's death 💀💀💀 I know he is kinda sociopathic character, but I feel sort of connection with him I don't know why. I mean, his story was so tragic, his only bright things about life were studying, playing with others people's minds ((at least we can see this, he loved that manipulating, playing)) and honestly, this professor, these studies, classics, ancient Greek were literally that small moments when he was able to feel something, to stimulate his mind in a emotional way. When he lost professors and saw that everything that he "loved" and knew is gonna change now he was truly destroyed and I think it's really tragic. Agh, sorry for so long comment in maybe not perfect English, because ugh English is not my first language 💀💀💀💀 I truly love the secret history, one of my favourite book
And btw, Donna Tartt is really mysterious and you can only know little things about her life, but you can read about her in college and high school and honestly, she seems like she could make good friends with characters from her book
@@lacampanella2406 I am rereading the thing, and Henry is NOT a psychopathic guy (just remember his disturbance of accidentally killing a duck) In fact, in the second reading he is my favorite.
I just finished it and whatever your thoughts are you have to give props to the way the story related to their studies. They were classic student discussing all this high literature and tragedies and in the end their stories ended the same way as their studies. Murder, suicide, a little gay, a little incest and nobody was happy. I quite liked that. I also thought Julian would play a bigger role. I at first thought he was in a relationship with Henry. There were a lot of things in there that seemed to me could have been bigger plotlines. There is something going on but Richard just does not want to know and it frustrates me. I wish I could read the story again but out of Camillas perspective. There was something in the love angle that I wish was more explored
@@aimeesbookshelf2208 but in the end I do really think that this is a big part of what makes the book so good. Richard was so incapable of telling the story objectively, as in the beginning he already establishes that he has a "morbid longing for the picturesque at all costs". He actively researches plotlines and then again also just very passively hints at some, which is why we never get to know the background of some things. He romanticizes the group and the people including it, especially Henry and Camilla. It just is so good because of this unique way of how the story gets told
I think have heard anyone talk about the relationship between Charles and Camilla, out of all the messed up things to happen in this book, that shook me the most. Although, this book will probably be one of my favorite books of all time, along with the picture of gray (I'm a sucker for corrupt characters)
So do we believe Richard's theory about Henry? That he orchestrated a more of the events leading to up to Buddy's death than we thought (the Rome trip for example), that he meant for Richard to find out about the Argentina tickets to pull him in and also had a plan B that involved throwing Richard under the bus?
i know i’m late but i 100% do. i never even thought of that until richard mentioned it but it made SO much sense. it seems that all richard ever wanted was approval from others - he didn’t get it from his parents so with his new group of friends he wanted to feel a sense of belonging. when henry says he knew richard was smart enough to figure the murder out it definitely seems like he’s just trying to play into richards ego. henry was smart and manipulative enough to do as he liked
@@z.4158 same. Henry knew Richard was desperate to be liked and accepted, so making him feel smart dragged him into the group even more. He needed Richard for the murder plan
Yes, because a normal person would have been upset about that level of invasiveness. Henry brought it up himself and complimented Richard for figuring it out. Does that seem like the appropriate reaction to your friend snooping into your life?
For me, I came to love Henry after he saved Richard. Tartt's description of the cold made me feel Richard's pain. A pain relieved by no other than Henry. But as I much as I loved him for saving Richard, I slowly came to hate him once I realized how he used Richard in his ultimate plan to kill Bunny.
I think Richards blandness has a lot to do with his "fatal flaw" and the whole thing about beauty is terror. Also, I think with the thing about Bunny, we're not really supposed to feel bad but later I personally did- because why murder- and the fact that he's not there. This may also have something that may have to do with Richard's fatal flaw- he tries to see Bunny in a decent light after his death by remembering a few decent things about him. I think this is also why Richard doesn't really do anything when he learns they killed the farmer or that they need his help to kill Bunny- he sees these people in a very romantic way because of their lifestyle, their friendships, all those things, and doesn't want to really see them outside of it until he's forced to. This could be connected to "Beauty is Terror". The whole group, to Richard, is "beautiful" "picturesque" "romantic" and therefore, terrifying. Later, Henry even tells Richard that they are very similar- he says something like "You don't care very much for people either"- so I think that Richard's "morbid longing for the picturesque" is just a longing for something horrible. Henry points out that Richard doesn't care for others very much and I think the way he reminisces on Bunny after he's dead is very superficial- he's only really reminiscing the idea of Bunny, not the actual person. Also, the Bacchanal... i think it very much has to do with Henry's "need" to lose himself. He's the most repressed, civilized one out of the group- Bunny may be the least- so he tries to do what the Greeks did. The whole idea of the Bacchanal too is just a festival of madness, insanity, a loss of the self. The whole ritual may mark a point of madness/ insanity within the four that took part. Henry the most and Francis the least. And I think this is where Richard and Henry are similar- both have an idealized view of something, both want to escape something. Also just something else interesting- Agrippina killed her husband, the Emporer Claudius, with poisonous mushrooms to clear the way for her son Nero. It's mentioned briefly, but when brainstorming ways to kill Bunny, Henry suggests poisonous mushrooms. Sorry for writing so much, I like talking about this book. I'm also starting an essay about it for school so I've had to think a lot about the characters.
lol... And what does Richard Papen's remark mean "Outside literature, is there such a thing as 'the fatal flaw', that glaring dark crack that runs through a life? I used to think not. Now I think there is. And I think this is mine: a morbid desire for the picturesque at all costs"?
It's been a bunch of years since I've read this book, but I totally agree about the winter section - it is still burned on my brain as the most vivid part of the book, even though there are many more sections that are objectively more interesting. Must be that childhood spent trudging through slush!
So many good and great books are amazing and awful. The Catcher in the Rye, The Great Gatsby, Wuthering Heights, Anna Karenina and the Scarlet Letter. That may be why the conversations keep coming. I loved The Secret History. The title may not be about the classic study. It may well be about the secrets they all had and made in life.
I also think it’s really easy to idealize/romanticize someone’s personality or overall presence when they’re not around to remind you of how terrible of a person they were. That’s why I think she intentionally wrote the first part of the book so that the reader would hate Bunny as much as possible and then it wasn’t until after he died that we were led to start empathizing with him and not so much justifying his murder anymore.
I recently just finished reading this book and I loved it! This was a great video and I loved hearing your thoughts! :) I read someone else post on another website that they thought the winter part was supposed to be long, so that when Henry rescues Richard he is also rescuing the reader. The idea that when Henry shows up, this guy that Richard wants to know and become friends with, he sees how Richard is living and doesn't really say anything about it. He takes him to the hospital and then takes him in, building trust and gratitude not only between Richard and Henry, but Henry and the reader. Henry shows up and we as a reader get to move on from the winter part, and go back to the campus with the other characters and the plot. I've also read that some people loved the winter part, and for those that did, Henry showing up would be like him taking you away from something you're enjoying and throwing you back into the deep end of a murder plot. Which for those people, they most likely feel a forced thankfulness for Henry, but this could also be when the allure of Henry starts to fade. I think that there's a lot of instances throughout the book that Donna Tartt attempts to make the reader feel like they're part of this group. In terms of Bunny's death, from the beginning I never liked him. But, the reader knows he's going to be killed, so they're anticipating it as they read, so they almost start looking for reasons to dislike Bunny (which I didn't find hard). Then right before the murder it felt like the reader was brought into the quiet moments that normally aren't written about, and we have a list like telling of all the ways Bunny is horrible to each character. It's only until after he's killed that the reader sees the other characters start to fall apart and the issues they each have. Which when you connect that to the epilogue I thought it was showing that they don't get to move on and live happy lives, that what they did changed them and is going to follow them. As for how the reader is supposed to feel about Bunny's death I had two ideas. When I finished reading it I thought that it wasn't if the reader agreed/disagreed/ or was unsure about Bunny's murder, but looking at his murder vs the other characters and why you feel the way you do about what happened. For example, if the reader was okay with Bunny being killed, but hated what happened to Henry, why? How do you justify each character and the part they played? But I also thought that, like how you said you could imagine this playing out, that this was simply a telling of the extremes people can go to in certain environments, and Bunny's death was one of those extremes. However each reader felt about it, in the end they still see the repercussions of his death.
Thank you for this thoughtful comment! I love this idea of Henry rescuing the reader from winter; it works because the winter section is so well written that I definitely felt like I was getting sucked into the cold and the suffering. And of course you are right; Bunny is a foil for the other characters. How we feel about them can only be fully realized in relation to Bunny, a despicable character.
i loved the winter section! some people said it felt pointless, but it felt strangely powerful to me. the isolation and richard’s mental state degrading, i think it gave valuable insight to him as a character and how he let himself get dragged into the murder. he’s easily led and sort of reckless, and i think it has a lot to do with how he was treated growing up and his own sense of self, or lack-there-of. he allows himself to wither away quite easily, and only pulls out of it when henry appears. it felt very telling. i personally like richard, even though i’m not sure i should. i also stan francis. i feel like they and camilla got dragged into this situation by their love for people-friends and a teacher they admire-who didn’t necessarily have their best interests at heart (side note: i think richard has bisexual energy and if there was an alternate universe where francis came back to california with him and they fell in love i would not be opposed)
Francis is the only one Richard didn't completely despise (I know he said he loved Camilla, but he always described her more as a fantasy than a person, and when she didn't fit this fantasy, he asked her to simply leave). So I would have killed for Richard and Francis to get together in the end. Richard would be incapable of being in a loving relationship with anyone else (because it's indicated that he couldn't communicate at all) and he and Francis would have understood each other. But that would have been too perfect I guess.
personally, I liked the epilogue. I was reading somewhere that the entire book was essentially a critique of higher education and elitism. The plot is just so outrageous, 6 college students at an elite university join a classics course and think they are better than everyone else then end up murdering 2 people and feel as though they should suffer no consequences then they either end up dead or miserable. So the epilogue sort of shows how these people really didn't amount to anything and how miserable their lives were after the "highs" of college. The book is pretty much telling the story of has-beens lmao.
THIS BOOK READS LIKE A GREEK TRAGEDY! love your review, i’m obsessive about this book. i’ve made it a tradition to read it every autumn - 14 times i’ve read it by now. i really appreciate the length and the opera that is this book. if some of the length doesn’t drive the plot, it sure adds to the tone and atmosphere, really helping to fully absorb you into this terrible secret. i absolutely appreciate the whole funeral fiasco, and the epilogue - really shows the unravelling of the characters instead of leaving it to the imagination - and it really drives it home as a tragedy.
I keep thinking why everyone was so afraid of the fact that Bunny knew they allegedly killed a farmer. Bunny didn’t have any evidence, what could he possibly said to the police? My college friends were possessed by an ancient god and barehanded ripped apart local farmer? Like group could have easily been each others alibi, they didn’t have any motive. Moreover it never even mentioned that there was an investigation about the farmer. I think Henry could have easily deny everything and even come up with a story that he wrote his diary to test Bunnys loyalty or smth. But even without that I can not see a solid ground for a serious investigation against those 4
This is one of my favourite books ever and I need to re-read it again! I've always placed this book in the 90's, around the time Donna Tartt wrote the book and assumed the characters in it are old school x) I think we're supposed to have mixed feelings about Bunny's death and the whole book I've never forgotten the winter part, it's so intense and I really felt for Richard plus I hate cold so I totally related x) I needed the epilogue, I don't like endings that are too open
Having read the other books by Donna Tartt I think that stretching scenes and plot point further than how much it was necessary is a thing that she does consistently and while I usually don't really like it for some reason I love it when she does. This slows you down and really allows you to take in what is happening and makes the fast paced sections feel even more frantic and exciting. I reminder in the secret history there this scene right at the end when Charles is in the hospital and because of reasons Richard finds himself having to walk back to the college and there's this really long section of just him walking on the side of the road and then 50 pages later you have the climax of the novel at the hotel and this slowing down and then picking up the pace is just so gorgeous to read. This quality of her writing is even more present in "the little friend" (amazing novel, btw, and rarely talked about). This is a 600+ pages book that an other writer would have probably done in 300 pages. Tartt takes the time to meander around and tell stories that seem pointless, and some times are, and introduce you to characters that won't effect the story (There's a plot point that takes up a good third of the book that leads absolutely nowhere and I lied it). This allowed her to create an atmosphere that makes you feel like you have lived in that town your whole life so when the climax happened its all that much powerful because of it.
SPOILERS! I love this book and I can’t stop thinking about it. The main characters are awful people but they’re so well written and interesting (especially Henry!!!) that you get invested in their stories. I actually liked the part when they went to his funeral and didn’t think it was too long. It was supposed to be unsettling and painful since to Richard, it feels like he’s being tortured as he’s reminded that he murdered a real person who had a family. The way I saw it was that the first half of the book builds up the characters, putting them on a pedestal and making you feel that sense of belonging and intrigue that Richard does. The second half of the book tears them down, knocking them off the pedestal. Julian was a manipulator who took advantage of lonely 20 somethings with no parental figures, not a wise and kind mentor. Henry likely intentionally led Richard right towards finding out about the farmer’s murder so he could make him feel smart and eventually get him on board with killing Bunny. Charles becomes an abusive alcoholic who tried to kill Henry when he seemed like one of the nicer members of the group. The epilogue is the culmination of this downward spiral of all the characters in my opinion. I felt such a sense of grief when the group split up and had tragic endings. It was only one year of Richard’s life but he and the classmates will be bonded forever. The only things that really bugged me were a few aspects of the story that made no sense or just didn’t need to be there. Camilla barely had a personality so it was weird how obsessed Richard was with her. Her romance with Henry was underdeveloped. The twincest also didn’t add anything. Sorry for writing so much, just have lots of feels about this!
Wonderful description of the book……As for Camilla, I feel that she was depicted as a shallow character because this story is being narrated from Richard’s POV who sees her as this divine seductive being. He never actually gets to know the “real” Camilla. Moreover, I believe the twincest highlights the flaws of Richard. When he is told about how Camilla is abused by Charles, he never makes a move to help her. Instead, he gets jealous of Charles for being able to sleep with her. Moreover, when Henry, in a way, rescues Camilla from Charles, Richard sides with Charles. This shows that Richard never actually cared for her, he never actually loved Camilla.
@@i_hate_snakeu464 I love this explanation! I’m on a reread and I noticed that Richard described Camilla as a safe that he couldn’t crack. Their relationship kinda reminds me of Tom and Summer in 500 Days of Summer, when she obviously isn’t interested in a serious relationship but he ignores her and never gets to know her real personality. On the reread I also noticed how there’s actually a good amount of foreshadowing of Charles and Camilla’s relationship. Pretty early on, I saw Charles expressing jealousy whenever she got too close to a boy, and Bunny’s comment about incest was the only one of his remarks that upset her. I think I just didn’t want to see it. What you said about Richard taking Charles’s side over Camilla’s makes a lot of sense. I was confused when Richard said he wanted to rape her because she went to talk him about how she was already being abused. I thought he should be mad at Charles as the abuser, but he took all of his anger out on her with the mindset of, “if I can’t have you, no one can”
I finished reading it for the first time about a month ago and I really cannot stop thinking about it. everything about it - the characters, plot, and way that it’s written just stuck with me
There are a lot of references to be able to pinpoint time period - Jane Fonda workout videos (80s) CD case - late 80s, no cell phones - before 2000s, Wheel of Fortune (80s)
I read it way back in 2018 and I still haven't stopped thinking about it. I still don't know what it is! Also one thing I always find funny about the winter period. Richard gets saved from the cold by Henry WINTER! Gotta love Donna Tartt.
I feel the exact same way about wishing I'd read The Secret History in school. I straight up want to write a full academic paper about it. I reread it like twice a year.
This book has forever changed reading for me, I'm not even smart or well read enough to truly get it, but I'm just like mindblown. I wish I existed when it came out and could have read it then
Man I just finished this book and I’m obsessed, I strongly disagree with a lot of your takes (bunny being unlikable, winter section only being there for Richard to be saved by Henry). But this was a fun retrospective to hear another opinion, thank you for sharing!
What you said about the funeral scene, something about there should be more but you like it anyway... THIS! I felt this for the whole book, I think because that's how movies/books usually are set up, the big climax and all that which if course never happened because we already knew Bunny would die and even Henry's death in my opinion wasn't climatic (albeit sad!)... It's as if you as the reader (like Richard) get caught up in these people's lives somehow and you know (like Richard did at some point) that you should technically walk away but you don't!
Great review!! I couldn't agree more with how pointless certain 'acts' were in hindsight, but in the initial reading, Tartt's writing is just so alluring that you get swept up in the whole atmosphere. I'm so reluctant to recommend this book to anyone because one on hand if they'd hated it, I would accept their opinion as completely valid, but it would also break my heart!! I'm weirdly attached to this book and I cannot for the life of me pinpoint the reason
On the timeless thing... I tried to figure it out the whole book, but I took the fact that one of the FBI guys had a laptop, and the fact that they still used pay phones, to deduce that it was probably early 1990s :)
I did notice too that this book is very gatsby-esque so when Richard brought it up I kinda laughed. At first I thought Richard was that kind of blank Main character that we are supposed to project ourselves on to but every now and then you do get a glimpse of his personality and his motivations and I thought that was quite nicely done. I do think that tartt making Bunny unlikeable was a bit heavy handed, especially because we already know that he's going to die so it's like "well I know you're making him awful so I don't feel Bad when he dies"
The more time I've had away from this book the more I've come to see Bunny as a sympathetic and complex character. I think that's what Tartt was trying to do towards the end of his life, making him more empathetic.
@@TheBookBully same. Especially reading his letter to Julian and seeing his family at the funeral. In his letter you can see how desperate and terrified he was. He knew what was going to happen but couldn’t get himself out of the group. And he was incredibly mean to his friends and impulsive after finding out about the murder, but is it that really worse than his friends who didn’t care about killing someone and only worried about getting caught?
I just finished it and I think* I loved it, but one of the things that bugs me is just how much we still don’t know at the end because of Richard being an outsider. Like at one point Camilla says that the farmer guy had his stomach torn open which is not what Henry had said about it. Also when Richard thought about violently raping Camilla it just came so out of the blue it was super off putting.
Nobody had a clear memory of the bacchanal so it doesn’t matter anyway. And what Richard thought about doing to Camilla was clearly an intrusive thought, I don’t think it’s that deep really.
The winter part also felt like a part to remind us as readers that even though Richard puts on this act he will and was always different from the rest of the group. This is my opinion and how i felt when reading it, but it was a strong reminder on to a level how different Richard truly was in sense of unlike the others he couldn't detach himself from life like the others no matter what.
I always find it weird when people call it a club or society - it's just a group of friends and to me the whole point was about how quickly friendship groups can become possessive, toxic and incestuous (usually figuratively but, you know)
to be honest, i loved the epilogue. i love that we got endings for each character. so much underlying humour in the way that it was written. I find that with most books, it is great when they have somewhat of a broad ending so that the reader can create their own ending and interpret it in their own way - but Tartt still seems to achieve this notion even after giving her characters somewhat of a conclusion - like in my mind Judy Poovey is living her best life as a television host in her annoyingly charming way (from what i remember, she became a tv host - don't quote me!), but now i also get some sort of idea of what she's doing, and still get to form my own conclusion for her - based from the epilogue. Although, each to their own, we all have different opinions and you are entirely valid. but yeah, to me it was a perfect ending. (my guilty pleasure from this book is that i literally am in love with Henry - even though im supposed to hate him and he breaks all moral boundaries, but his character is so complex, which makes him so irritably beautiful. however, i think i feel this way as we only get to see his character as a romanticised version of himself as Richard is such an unreliable narrator in the sense that we don't truly get to know any of the characters for who they truly are - but i also think that that's the beauty of it all. But i digress, i have to admit, i might have a saviour complex (as im sure most of us do when it comes to troubled men) and i think i can change him😔)
One of the worst parts about the epilogue in my opinion was that Francis ended up marrying a woman. It was such a massive disappointment. I also don’t know how you read the book in a day. It took me 7 weeks!
It took me a month to read. And I was so disappointed too. I guess it represents Francis’ spoiled background. That he wanted to avoid having to financially support himself and be alone so much that he’d marry a woman.
I guess it showed how demanding it can be in a family of old money. It's not for granted that you end up with the money. Sacrifices will be made to obtain this carefree lifestyle. It was devastating, yes, but it made sense to me. It showed how caged you are, even with all the money in the world and especially without it when you're used to it. Such a stark contrast to classic ideals, when ordinary family feuds grab the characters and put them back in their reality.
I loved this video! I feel the same way about the winter portion; I felt (or maybe looked and grasped for) so much desire for Henry in Richard’s vulnerability, and had the same thought as you, that those scenes went on forEVER for no apparent reason, but they were quite enjoyable.
I think the winter section, while serving as getting Henry to trust Richard, is about what's not there. It's the first time after meeting the Greek Class that Richard is alone and it's awful for him. He feels unmoored and abandoned and explains why he's so desperate to be a part of the group again. Now compare that feeling with those moments when Richars chooses to be outside of the group after Bunny's funeral. He's happy to not be in the group. The winter scene serves as a baseline for Richard's personal character growth.
Definitely episodic! I’m sure it’ll have an on-screen adaptation soon, and I really hope they go for a miniseries. It would suit the format so well. Also I totally agree about the epilogue!! It was such a 90s vibe with saying where everyone ended up. I feel like it should have just been it’s own chapter, and gotten much more into the details of things. I do feel like it was necessary, because of the very last page. We needed to establish both life after death and death after death. But until that part, it was too different from the rest of the book.
i’ve read this book in june and i couldn’t stop thinking about it either. i’ve felt every emotion possible while reading and it really changed my view on every book character i’ve ever met because all of the members of the greek class have a background to their peculiar behaviour and i just think they are very real and human, but at the same time, they all live in a bubble of obsession for the old times and the greek society, the dramatic silences and the languages. it’s an exquisite book and i loved your video!
They so terrified of ending up in prison and ruining their lives for killing Bunny. Yet they all still ended up in their own mental prisons and ruining their lives. I think Richard was never going to be truly happy no matter what life threw at him.
I have just finished The Secret History and I loved it, too. In my opinion, however, the book loses a bit of its compelling rythm in the second part - for instance, by dwelling too much on episodes such as Bunny's funeral, which I found unnecessarily long, or Charles' disturbing behaviour. I really loved the subtle, unsettling mystery that permeated the first part, especially the winter part and the scenes set in the countryside!
I also preferred the first part since the second half dragged a bit. I realized a lot of the writing in part 2 is about character development. We see the main characters’ lives slowly fall apart and how even though the cops never caught them, they all faced consequences in some way. Richard realizes how these people he romanticized so much and was desperate to fit in with are actually not at all how he thought they were.
but that’s the thing though, isn’t it? the first part is completely romanticized by richard, it’s almost whimsical, even the winter part is told as if it was a delirious meltdown. While the second part is the plain reality, with all its unpretty daily grinds and character flaws and definitely a lot less exciting.
After reading the book and looking at other people’s reactions to the characters, I felt kind of bad that I didn’t feel bad for Bunny. He really was such a grotesque person who was a miserable addition to any room. I’m not saying he deserved what he got, but I just didn’t feel bad for him. The other characters vary in their abhorrence. Francis is definitely someone I also believe was never truly malicious and who deserved better. Charles I grew to like a lot around halfway through the book and all of a sudden detest. Henry, I can’t describe why but I always admired as a character. Something about his Sherlockian sense of self is so intriguing, to Richard as much as it is to the reader. Camilla is the hardest to pin down. I don’t think I have particularly positive or negative feelings towards her. I think she became sort of a battleground on which the men in this group duel towards the end of the book, yet she is not herself an innocent or well-intentioned player.
I’m finding your channel the day after I finished this book and have SUCH conflicted feelings. I went into it expecting it to be my new favorite book just because it’s come so highly recommended to me by so many people (a lot of them not even really bookish people), but then about 150 pages in I realized I just wasn’t enjoying reading it. It was really well written obviously so read very smoothly and easily, but I disliked both the characters and the plot so much and wasn’t even finding that much nuance or complexity in my hatred of the characters that I love from books like My Year of Rest and Relaxation or even The Great Gatsby. I found the depiction of all of the female characters disappointing: from the fact that Camillas entire importance rested in Richards violent attraction to her (couldve done without his casual mentions of wanting to rape her), her weird sexual relationship with her brother, and her love with Henry revealed at the end. Much in the way that the Professor’s character was a missed opportunity for something important or complex I think Judy Poovey (?is that her name? richards neighbor the coke head) was also a missed opportunity. I kept waiting for her character to do something important or show us another side or present some complexity because she kept coming up so I figured it was for a reason but she just...didn’t? I also vividly remember this scene with Richard and Francis in which Francis makes a pass at Richard and in the narration Richard talks about how he felt it was inevitably going to happen eventually which I just...hate that line of thinking. This narrative that if you’re close with a gay person of the same sex they just must be attracted to you kind of rubs me the wrong way. Anyways, I had all these issues with this book, but then somehow at the end I found myself tempted to 5 star it as well? I think I ended up 3 starring it because I can’t deny that I strongly disliked so much of it but for some reason by the end (not the epilogue, hated that too) I was just in such wonder of this weird and grotesquely epic story. It felt so Shakespearean at the end especially with how Julian and Henry ended up. I didn’t want Henry to die and the thought hadn’t ever occurred to me, but when he killed himself it just felt like the story came full circle and it felt so right and so oddly poetic and on brand yet still unexpected for him. I love how Julian disappeared in the end too. That’s the complex and strong hatred I was looking for the whole time. Someone who is terrible, but who’s intricate terribleness is exposed in a single pitiful act. You realize how important he actually was in the creation of these people and their monstrosity, even if he wasn’t actually involved in the murders. I normally really dislike the endings of books but for me the ending here really made it. This is the worlds longest comment ever but basically all of it to say is I too have (very fresh lol) conflicted feelings about this book and it was great to see someone chomping through some of the weirdness rather than just a blanket “this book was amazing” which doesn’t really give the secret history what it’s due.
At first I agreed with you about the weirdness in the book when it came to female and gay characters, but then I realized it was actually perfect in its horribleness. Because this is Richard’s narration, and he is a very unreliable narrator. We see the story through him, hear it through his biases and weird rapey thoughts, and he so we get a story where they’re described in a weird up way. I don’t like it, but I feel like it’s absolutely accurate to the character telling us the story.
@@nbv6975 Since writing this I've talked about this at length with some of my friends who brought me to a similar conclusion. I guess I still just wish the female characters actually *did* more and were more significant to the story because regardless of how Richard sees them they can still do things and add to the plot. We expected Richard to sideline the girls, but I didn't expect that Donna would, if that makes sense. Like they were the most inactive characters in the story--all of them basically just waited for life to happen to them way more than the male characters did. But all in all yeah I've definitely come around to the uncomfortably rapey and homophobic aspects as symptoms of our very unlikeable and unremarkable narrator.
i actually really liked the epilogue and hearing about how they grew apart after the whole ordeal plus how they're all suffering in some way! i'd be so interested to know what you think about julian's role in the bachanal because i've seen some discourse about him getting them to do it and leaving because of his role in the murder? i loved this vid so much by the way!
I loved the long parts that didn’t have a major effect on the plot of story, such as Richard’s experience with almost freezing to death everyday, because after all, he was a part of the story too. And while his pretentious friends were away with their family or on vacation in Italy, Richard is just stuck in Hampden with no where to go, and had hardly any idea what is going on with his friends while they were away. So, the only perspective that Richard can give at that point, is his misery in the cold. I also loved the drawn outness of Bunny’s funeral because I feel like throughout the whole experience of meeting Bunny’s family, they all begin to feel some sort of guilt. I feel like before this, they were all consumed with selfishness and concerned with justifying the murder, and with not getting caught. But then they find themselves as murders standing before their victim’s family. They realize that Bunny was an actual person with a family, and not just someone that they went to school with who was a bigot and someone who they disliked and eventually murdered. They didn’t take into account how the murder would effect others, as well as eventually themselves.
What I absolutey love about this book is how at the behining we fall in love with all the characters and by the and of the book we absolutely hate them. I don't like the books where the characters are too good to be true. I prefer books with moraly gray characters. Also the way the plot unfolds... It is briliant! We descover things alongside Richard but looking back the clues are sooo obvious. Plus the fact that we can never know what happened because we only get Richard's VERY biased point of view.... This book is just a *chef's kiss
Henry getting late for the appointment. The appointment which will trigger his self; his conscience till he lives. Julian was the guy who curtained his own cowardice so skillfully, you could never say he is not 'The Gifted guide' who can chizel a plato out of you. But ironically, Henry inherited every speck of his charisma and teachings, but his malice. The bullet could pierce him but his pain of Julian's betrayal was still unscarred. Such rapt loss of all innocence is harsh! But the epilogue shouts 'having an unfortunate life'. When karma spills , it spills all over:(
I romantized it even while knowing something terrible is going to happen. I craved for thick paper, cotton shirt, suits, scenery. I hated them for ruining it. I rooted for them like Richard. I was lost when the group crumbled. I was heart broken for Henry. I hated charles for hurting camela. I went with the tale. Julian is the part I dnt understand but relate. What Julian did was what Richard should have done.
I just finished re-reading "The Secret History" this morning and I actually really like Richard. He *might* be an unreliable narrator but he got dragged into things he probably wouldn't have if he hadn't fallen in with this group. He might have been a little boring but that was almost nice compared to all the other characters in the novel. Though I LOVE Francis and Camilla just as much as I love Richard. They're the only three people in the books I want good things for by the end of the book. (I do not like Judy Poovey as much as everyone on tumblr and TH-cam and Goodreads want to make Judy Poovey happen). I really do feel the worse for the three of them, they were all just victims and by-products of three really terrible people. Edit: I also kind of hope since Francis had to get married, he could have married Sophie and that Camilla had allowed Richard to be a part of her life when he asked and offered to help her. But that's just me.
i think the part where richard is sleeping in the cold for so many days over christmas break was important because it showed what he was willing to put himself through instead of face his real core issues with his family.
I felt that the plot was only intended as, at most, a secondary intention... I mean, we know what happens from the first line, and so instead I think we were meant to be, and were, woven into the psyches of the characters. Here, as readers, we're pulled into this murder of an intolerable human.... when do we step back and say enough! I will go no further! ? Yet we, like the characters.... keep going along, following and cheering another human who may be more tolerable than Bunny, but also more treacherous. I agree with you in that there were many questionable directions Tartt went, as with the professor, Julien, but because I was so there, and loved being there.... I have to ask, how questionable were they? If such a thing were to go down.... it's hard to see that it could go down in any other way than it did here. Great video.... you made me consider a lot of questions.
yeah i definitely feel the way you’re feeling and am still waiting to talk about some parts that are just like shocking and just happened like. the twincest? the gutteral first murder of the man that somehow got mutilated by their weird test rituals?! it set me up to think that the book would be come a lot more greek horror supernatural than it turned out to me, kind of like alex michealides
You and Olive need to do an Instagram live discussing this book!! This is one of my favorite books of all times because I can't stop thinking about it.
theory?? the winter sequence, where the suffering Richard felt in the winter and the kind of oppressive cold described is kind of a foreshadowing (although not really) to Bunny's death????
The chapter before and with the funeral made sense for me, too. Because it felt like how the house would look. Lengthy, cold, uncomfortable, uneasy to live in. Hidden secrets in the shallow family like the painkillers in the bedroom. It was uneasy to read, but it felt like I was spending the night there as well. It was a stark contrast to the country house, where Richard felt at home and happy. I'd love to have read more about the country house though.
I just finished reading this, loved it! I felt very immersed in it, for example the scenes where they were at Francis's country house it was as if I could feel the hazy air and breeze, or the cold when Richard was in the hippy flat. It was nicely paced, it didn’t feel rushed and I quite enjoyed reading the middle of the book and didn’t feel a rush to finish it. The characters were well written, it was as if Bunny also irritated me by the time they killed him, and I can’t remember the last time I read something that made me feel so strongly about someone (I didn’t even hate Heathcliff as much in Wuthering Heights). I felt what Richard felt as a outsider when he initially joined the group. One thing that irked me though... when Henry and Richard leave Julian's office after the letter incident, and Richard says that was the last time he ever saw Henry, but then went on to say they had final classes together...
Richard was talking about Julian when he says that it was the last time he ever saw him. Also just realised your comment is 11 months old but I love this book so much that I wanted to point this out lol
I feel that the epilogue left me feeling strange. Like of all the characters I feel Francis suffered the most when he was by far the least deserving of it, Richard was reduced to a simp getting rejected and Charles fucked off with little consequence despite contributing to ##Spoilers### Henry's death
Tartt has stated the book takes place in the 80's. There's actually a lot of references, too, like the movies that Richard has to go see for the group, the music, etc. The book is awesome--I love how it mirrors the Greek tragedies that they are all studying (even The Secret History is a Greek reference) and does a great job of being literary on a meta level.
I finished this today. Honestly, yes undeniably---the characters are fucked up, but it was such an interesting read. So much dilemma, at some point I questioned myself if I really thought what I thought, or did my conclusion, in some ways---is influenced by how Richard looks at it, how he presented the character, and the story to us? Out of all the things in the book, I'm glad Judy exists in it lol. Love that girl.
Lol, just you talking about the winter section of the book has me experiencing flashbacks! On paper, The Secret History should be right up my alley and yet when I read it, I hated it. Still, for some odd reason, years on I can find myself thinking about it. I've felt like I should reread it for some time, especially since I was once a classics student! But it's good to know that someone who loved the book also had a conflicted experience with it.
I was excited to learn about the spoilers but now I’m more confused. I see potential if you give us a more structured with flow narrative video. I like that you are no Vlogin and pouring tea or showing us your lunch while we just trying to find info about the book. Thank you. For your insights on this book.
I 100% agree with what you said about the epilogue. The rest of the book has such a strange context. Richard is narrating the book with no real reference to what is up with his life now. I must say I was happy reading the epilogue because the characters are at least kinda good and happy. Also Camilla rejecting Richard was the best thing I’ve ever read! Richard is like this mysterious incel and Camilla deserves better.
The way Richard talked about Camilla was so weird. My issues with her character made a lot more sense when you think of his unreliable narration. Like, of course she doesn’t have much of a personality because Richard only praises her looks and doesn’t really see her as a whole person. She’s just a mysterious fantasy to him (who he also wants to rape for some reason??). Same with her romance with Henry not making much sense. Richard doesn’t know a lot of what happens in his friend group and since he’s selfish and into Camilla, he’d probably just ignore her feelings for someone else.
I do think Richards job with the doctor made sense. It shows that he NEEDS to work in comparison to the others, and that he's willing to in comparison to Bunny. Plus it gives him a time off, a recluse, when he's in the office at night. Plus he witnesses the interrogation of Henry by the FBI. He doesn't realise it but he finds out later that the interrogation room was so close he could practically hear the conversation. After all his job adds to his wandering in the book. He's always on the move, his room, Francis room, the country house, Henrys apartment, the twins apartment... he's always torn between them and the night hours at the office make sense to me in this context.
Okay I just finished reading this and I searched for a video of other people’s opinions because I was confused with my own. I absolutely loved this book but also hated it at the same time. I didn’t like any of the characters (but maybe Francis) and usually I am a character person, not a plot person. My sister asked me if it was good and I couldn’t give her a good response. However, I do think that is it’s appeal. It’s weird and off putting but written so beautifully that I fell in love with it.
I couldn't agree more, I only like a story if I feel what the narrator is feeling. But here, in this, I didn't feel connected at all. I liked the book to an extent but didn't understand the point of much of it. I probably expected more of Julian involvement with the group or atleast Camellia's relationship with her brother and Henry. Or atleast more of Henry's story. I think Henry or Camillia should have been the narrator and not Richard. And this guy Francis, he's going through all of this for no particular reason, I felt bad for him and for Henry, though I shouldn't be.
I am in exactly the same position. I had been putting off reading this book because I thought from all the hype it was getting that i would be disappointed, but I was pleasantly surprised. I devoured it in a few days, couldn't stop reading and now I feel a huge hole in my chest. I love all the characters and the epilogue left me with a suffocated feeling that I haven't been able to shake off. I'll be honest, at first I didn't like Henry's character almost at all (he was very bland to me) but after his death and the epilogue where Richard dreams of his ghost and walks away to nowhere I don't know why I felt a horrible nostalgia and so much sadness 😭 well I'm very sensitive probably, but I can't get over the characters, I think it definitely became one of my favorite books.
I just finished this book today. People have already said it, but I liked the epilogue. My reason is simple, but it was nice. It was a little sad in some ways, but I find it nice to learn what happened to different characters in the story
As a classics student, the weirdness is ridiculously relatable. Not to the extremes shown in the book, but I know a group of Latin students who do their translations at night in a cemetery near campus soooooo.
this was great. although this is my absolute favorite book of all time by about a million light years, i know almost noone in my real life who has read it. (excepting many people i have "encouraged" to do so). so hearing from someone who has read it only once was very fascinating. thank you and believe me i would LOVE to discuss anytime in depth and for ever and ever. PS - the most insightful glimpse i ever got into this book was after watching American Psycho, and realizing i had been looking at the message of the book in a very superficial and aesthetic way (as Richard says in the very beginning... "a longing for the picteresque at all costs"). my conclusion at that point was that Bunny is the only "good" character, the innocent and doomed one who albeit with plenty of faults is grounded in trying to be a "regular" person with no experience or education from his family in being one. my cats are named Bunny and Fern, and i fell in love with my wife on our first date because she mentioned the line "looking for new ferns". i ended up rambling here but yeah, lets talk TSH. shame or fortune that Paltrow never made the movie...
I’m an struggling to read this book. You read it in ONE DAY?! 😮 I’m loving it though.!! Like the plot is taking forever but also the small print is upsetting me because it’s taking me forever to read 😂
Oh my goodness I just finished "The Secret History." I am coming off of readers high. I loved this book!! I was sad at the end and felt crazy that I connected with the characters bc they are all so messed up and well murderers.
Okay I know you posted this video a while ago but it truly feels like you and I thought the same exact thing about this book especially the Gatsby parallels and timelessness of the book! Love it
very true about the epilogue! the characters are all so interesting in this snapshot of their lives i’m not sure i wanted to know where they ended up. to every reader they were likely interpreted differently and i for one liked the unanswered questions of whether they really got away with it and whether they would go on to be successful. when reflecting on the characters i think of them as the are for the main plot rather than where they end up, which for the most part is quite underwhelming.
I just finished it today. I agree with all your criticisms except that I minded what I think are the flaws very much. It was way too drawn out, and the main characters were despicable people, although I agree that Francis was a more sympathetic character. Without getting into spoilers, they didn't just do "such a terrible thing to somebody", they did multiple terrible, horrific things to others and each other. If that was a story with less educated people it would be seen in a completely different light. Does ennui among the rich and self-proclaimed intellectuals justify virtually any behaviour that lesser mortals would be condemned for? They were a hot mess, and I was left feeling like I need a shower.
I think the point of the book is exactly that : to show us that no matter how privileged you are and what social class you belong to, you still can't outrun the demons coming to haunt you. After Bunny's death, each one of the protagonist's horrible trait is revealed. Social class and level of education isn't enough to justify your actions, that's why Donna didn't want us to be involved with the characters from the start, didn't make them likable. Their complete downfall towards the end of the novel is so satisfying for that exact reason.
@@Books-and-coffee0 I completely agree that she didn't make them likeable. My takeaway was not any degree of satisfaction at their downfall. In fact, these smug, self-entitled brats (I realize Richard has a different backstory) didn't have that far to fall because they never achieved any heights. I personally didn't feel like I was on a journey, so much as on a voyeuristic slog into the all too real world of moneyed freeloaders whose actions are seen in a different light... deeper, more complex, and more interesting. I'm not knocking the author, and each of us bring our own subjective experiences, personal beliefs, etc., into what we read.
Such interesting perspectives here. I think there's something about rich, educated arrogant people who do grotesque things that is appealing, for some reason. Maybe it gives us a real reason to hate them? Puts the reader on an elevated moral ground?
i just finished reading this book last week and i too have lots of thoughts and feelings. overall, i was quite let down, probably because it's been so hyped up lately. before i read any "dark academia" books i had this assumption about what that was, and my template for it was Harry Potter. so, automatically, if there's no magic, i'm just already a little disappointed. i assumed the book took place right around the time the author wrote it, which was what, early 90s, late 80s? what's fascinating, as someone who graduated high school in 99, is reading about a college experience pre-computers. i just barely missed it, and oh man, what a difference that seems to have made. i mean, these people just play cards all the time and party? how quaint! this book is quite good for a first novel, but it definitely feels like something written by someone who just graduated college- the academic focus, the observations of her fellow students. maybe if i were in college, or younger, i would have been more intrigued with the story. and in college i did know people who were in a sort of fandom of a professor, and some other guy who wasn't a professor, but was closely associated with some people at the school. so, i get it! people do seem to get really into very specific things when they're trying to forget their identity in college. the story could have really used some editing, with all those bits (the winter in that weird warehouse over a dam - like, WTF?, the funeral) getting cut out or at least shortened considerably. and yeah, what's up with the professor hardly being part of the story? i thought for sure he would have led the ritual and/or been the one to encourage the murder. there should have been a lot more showing and less telling. the whole ritual is just relayed to the main character after it happened. the reader doesn't get to be present for it, which just feels like such a cop out. the story would been better told without a first person narrator, maybe, but i do see your point about The Great Gatsby parallel, and that would make sense, because, as i said, it's clear the author was still in that academic mind set when she wrote the book, and mimicking or being inspired by a great work of literature would make perfect sense. finally, what's the point of them being greek students? we didn't get nearly enough explanation about what that was all supposed to mean- like, the greek philosophy supposedly underpinning this group's wonky mindset.
I'm listening to the book, narrated by the author. Not even through part 1 of 5 parts (of audiobook recording). I can't listen without taking a break, even listening to another book! So it'll take me a while to listen to the whole story (I THINK that will happen). The story brings me back to my college years - mid to late 70s. There is a terrifyingness of those years: youth released into a new world that is like an experiment, with no boundaries, freedom from supervision (authority, and the desperate love from that authority), no responsibilities except to survive academically. In essence, college provides nearly a tabula rasa experience. I think that's why I may finish it.
i'm late by a whole year, but i just finished this book like 3 days ago. the part that made me the most sick was when Henry shot himself. i just find it so eerily poetic. like, that was the most heroic thing he could think of doing in that situation. also, the winter section was probably my favorite. i don't wanna say that i relate to it, because i physically don't, but i think that i emotionally do. he's so physically cold and isolated in that section, and when i was reading that, i felt exactly the same way, except mentally. i was about to move, and all my friends had left me. i could relate his physical feelings of being cold and alone to my mental state.
It was so nice to hear your thoughts! I loved the book but also had very conflicted feelings. I actually really liked the epilogue as I was very curious to know what happened to everyone
I just did a search for videos about this book because I just read it and I needed to talk about it too, and this video is EXACTLY what I was looking for!
totally agree with what you said about Richard --- all the way through, all I could think was 'these people are so interesting and Richard is so BLAND, why the hell are they hanging out with him??'
also agree with what you said about Julian - she built up his character at the beginning in a way that seemed like he was gonna be a HUGE part of the plot, and then he ended up doing...nothing?
also I hated both the epilogue and the prologue -- I don't understand why the prologue was there, why did we need to know they killed bunny before we even knew who any of the characters were? curious to know whether you think that actually had any purpose
I'm really aching to read The secret history and i want to really understand it in depth and not have the literary references go over my head so what works /legends should i be familiar with before reading it? it might be mentioned in the video but i'm trying not to spoil it for myself haha sorry
They talk a lot about Greek myth so you could read some ancient Greek drama like The Oresteia and Medea. In a way, this story reads like a Greek tragedy with the theme of circularity and being chased by the consequences of your own actions. Everyone in this book is messed up and this was the author's intent, to deconstruct the idea of equating beauty with moral good.
I felt emo ever since the book
Girl same
it's been over a year and its like high school all over again
I actually loved the epilogue. Because it’s a letdown, it’s sad, it feels weird, it feels off. And I think that’s perfect, because I feel like if it had just ended as a snapshot we probably would’ve romanticized what happened afterwords, or dramatized it. I think seeing their lives moving forwards made us realize that their pretensions couldn’t last, it showed how life after something like that isn’t dramatic or romantic, they aren’t living in a classic. It’s slow, and boring, and sad, and dull, and it’s not right, which is exactly how it reads.
@Lauren Fleischer I think it gets across the message of grief, seeing the whole group break up. Because the whole second half of the book is the characters’ lives going downhill and watching how Richard’s romanticized view of them gets ripped to shreds. The ending feels like the culmination of that.
You have a great take on that. Nice.
Well said
huge letdown. why i love it and am frustrated every time. the genius of this book is in saying a million things without ever actually explaining why. the characters are playing a game with no rules just for the sake of doing it... there is no moral teaching or solid takeaway. its painful because in the end its just a sad middle aged man who will never have closure and who will only grow old without coming of age in any triumphant or even tragic way. it just happens to him. and he doesnt learn thats okay.
@@legalkqgt7307 He was just 28 years old when he was telling the story in the novel if I remember it correctly.
unpopular opinion: the epilogue was a genius artistic choice. the disappointment in life and absolute horror and dread of your fututr you felt while reading was incredible. sure i felt like shit but it was the perfect ending. it felt like the book really happened.
agreed!
I fully agree
I think I disagree with you here. In my opinion the disenfranchisement and disappointment was slowly built up so much as an inevitability throughout the novel that meticulously describing it doesn’t serve much of a purpose other than to lay it out extremely clearly to the reader. Personally, I would have much preferred leaving these characters immediately after the climax as they take their first steps on this inevitable journey to mediocrity.
Possibly it did. People including children and particularly elites get away with crimes including murder, frequently. There’s a Bunny in every group of masters of the universe. If there is no Bunny there’s always a girl, or someone “colored” or poor or outcast: a 🐐 . Her excitement, the reviewer, is a tad gross. Where’s the glee⁉️ The Narrater is not Nick, this narrator is a co conspirator, the scholarship kid who goes along with the in group. Grotesque like this review.
I fully agree, especially knowing what happened to Francis. And then the last dialogue between Camilla and Richard. For some reason it made me laugh. *spoilers*
Camilla: I can’t marry you Richard
Richard: why?
Camilla: because I still love Henry.
**me having a flashback to Henry at the hotel**
Richard: Henry’s dead
Me: **suddenly bursting out into laughter***
"It's a 5 star read with no right to be" THE TRUTH MA'AM
Also, I think that the length of the scenes involving Bunny's funeral were to bring the reader back to Earth in regard to Bunny's murder. Without those scenes, I think we as the reader would be living too much in the fantasy and ambiance of the group's pretension. Bringing the reader back to the reality of a family with complicated and unromantic internal dynamics trying to mourn and deal with the loss of a brother/son helps to contrast the 'real' world with the world of the Greek group.
Yes this is such a good observation!!
I felt the same way with that section! I felt like she accomplished that, for me at least. The family's grief felt so odd, like simultaneously realistically banal but also in some ways really quite sad. Sad because it was so... horrible and so bland, if that makes any sense. And it's in an entirely different world (close to what one might call the real world but not quite?) than most of the book. The scene of Henry dragging mud across his suit was a fantastic end to the "act", in my opinion.
I loved the epilogue because I thought it really nailed the point home that these kids thought they were destined for all this greatness & in their minds were above reproach/morals/the law & had this grand vision of life that they thought no one else could understand but ultimately in the end they were just people like everyone else & in killing Bunny they killed off their own potential for a fulfilling & meaningful life. Ugh this book is perfect for book club discussions, haha!
amen!
As far as unreliable narrators go, i think Richard might be my favourite. It’s done so subtly that you don’t start to notice it really until the end, and I love how the curtain is drawn back for the reader. In a way, this book is about what doesn’t happen and isn’t said just as much as what is. I think this is summarised in Francis’ note when he says “Forgive me, for all the things I did but mostly for what I did not”. The story that Richard tells writes over the truth again and again, and it’s that story underneath that is “the Secret History”
Your line that "this book is about what doesn't happen and isn't sad just as much as what is" is so good! It's true. Richard's narration leaves gaps that we have to fill in , but these gaps also tell us a lot about each character and I think it was a really effective and artful choice of the author to give us such an unreliable narrator
AGREE
Wow I did not associate Francis’ quote with the entirety of the book until this comment. I love that.
This was a really good video about a really good book. :)
I think Donna Tartt made Bunny horrid before his death, and then made the other characters horrible after it. I don’t think Tartt wanted you to feel sorry for him, I think she wanted you to justify his murder and then show you that the murderers were just as bad as him, and have you question your original reaction.
I think she wanted you to justify this murder to yourself because you fall in love with the fantasy of these characters. And then when you start to discover how horrible they really are for doing it, you start to question yourself a little since you justified it too so are you terrible also?
Loved this book so much!
Wow! You are absolutely right. I did not realize it until you pointed it out. The characters become less and less likely as the book draws to a conclusion
@parkerbava7083 FR this is why I love this book so much it makes you question your own morality and it's so easy to make you put on Richard's shoes cause he doesn't let us see too much inside his complicated mind, so he's the perfect "blank canvas" for us to project our own selves.
Bunny is the homophobic-racist-sexist-misogynist white male that you want to avoid as soon as possible.
Henry is the alluring sociopath that you want to be best friend with.
Francis..... Francis just needs a hug :'(
Re: the Winter; It is to this day probably my favourite section in the book. I always really like the sense of danger, and also how Richard thought that he was hallucinating Henry under the street lamp. I thought it was very ethereal and surreal, and acted sort of as a foreshadowing to the supernatural things to come. In a way, it sets up the atmosphere for the rest of the book where things just take a nose dive into the darker aspects of the story.
I re-read this book every fall; its become a little tradition of mine. One January not too long ago, I was re-reading this book and at the time was living alone and barely employed; I was able to work enough to choose between buying groceries and putting my heat on. So the heat stayed off and I was able to eat most of the time. The Winter was already a section of the Secret History that stuck out in my brain, but it was something else entirely to be curled up on my couch with my fingers numb from cold, reading about Richard struggling to get coins into the pay phone in the snow. In a way, this section of the book is always going to haunt me, but its still a section I look forward to every time I pick this book up.
This is so real. Your comment really resonates for so many including myself
Beautifully put. What I love about the book is how it creates this rather strange world and pulls you in. It's why I keep re-reading the novel. I want to go back there. The cold, the snow, and the forests are part of a mythic timeless quality to the story.
This response just made me cry. I was in a bad place when I read The Old Man and the Sea. Something about the personal journey of being a reader makes me so emotional
Yeah, although I can see the section not matching the gothic vibe of the rest of the story, I could really feel it because something similar happened to me.
I'm from a warm place and my university was the first place I saw real snow and felt the real winter. And during Christmas, all other students who were fairly local deserted the college and drove away and I did not have funds for flight tickets home and decided to stay instead. It was crazy, as one-by-one, the college cafeteria shut down, the bus services shut down, all clothing stores shut down (and I did not prepare by buying winter clothes beforehand) - and I finally had to rely on trudging through the snow all alone, getting frozen pizzas home, walking past cozy family houses with warm lights and dinners, back to my empty and cold apartment - chilling to my bones all alone.
And when I read this section of the book, I knew the author felt what I felt.
I felt so related when I read this.
I just finished the book like 15 minutes ago. From my point of view I don't think we were supposed to feel sad about Bunny's death. We were told in the first paragraph that he died, so there was no suspense of just 'someone will die at some point in this book.' The winter section was odd to me and I also kept wondering why it went on so long.
The section that freaked me out the most though was Bunny's funeral from when they arrived to when they leave. I felt sick to my stomach at how it went down. Even as people were crying and the father was upset to me it seemed no one fully cared that he died. The fact at the end that Bunny's family nicknamed the new female baby "Bunny" was disturbing to me. It seemed like they were almost replacing him in this new little girl.
For me I loved the epilogue. I wanted to know what happened and if it just ended without it I wouldn't have been happy with it. The fact that we got to see what happened to most of the characters I loved. I started tearing up at the idea that everyone went on to live their lives, but never fully fulfilled. Francis having to marry some girl to keep his money was heartbreaking and Charles running off with some random alcoholic. What struck me most was Camilla who was going to take care of her grandmother, lost her 'true love' Henry, and also lost her twin (a connection which from what I heard in real life is terribly strong). Plus not only did she loose her twin she also lost an abusive brother/lover all in a span of a few weeks was heartbreaking in a way. Although nobody got a happy ending, except Henry, I believe it was what they all deserved. MINUS FRANCIS who deserved the right to run away with a man he loved and be happy.
Thank you so much for this comment! I love hearing everyone's reactions to this book. You're right about the baby - I didn't even really think about it at the time (because there is SO MUCH going on) but it is a weird, almost robotic feeling reusing his name.
When I finished this book I cried because of Henry's death 💀💀💀 I know he is kinda sociopathic character, but I feel sort of connection with him I don't know why. I mean, his story was so tragic, his only bright things about life were studying, playing with others people's minds ((at least we can see this, he loved that manipulating, playing)) and honestly, this professor, these studies, classics, ancient Greek were literally that small moments when he was able to feel something, to stimulate his mind in a emotional way. When he lost professors and saw that everything that he "loved" and knew is gonna change now he was truly destroyed and I think it's really tragic. Agh, sorry for so long comment in maybe not perfect English, because ugh English is not my first language 💀💀💀💀 I truly love the secret history, one of my favourite book
And btw, Donna Tartt is really mysterious and you can only know little things about her life, but you can read about her in college and high school and honestly, she seems like she could make good friends with characters from her book
WE LOVE FRANCIS IN THIS HOUSE
@@lacampanella2406 I am rereading the thing, and Henry is NOT a psychopathic guy (just remember his disturbance of accidentally killing a duck) In fact, in the second reading he is my favorite.
I just finished it and whatever your thoughts are you have to give props to the way the story related to their studies. They were classic student discussing all this high literature and tragedies and in the end their stories ended the same way as their studies. Murder, suicide, a little gay, a little incest and nobody was happy. I quite liked that.
I also thought Julian would play a bigger role. I at first thought he was in a relationship with Henry. There were a lot of things in there that seemed to me could have been bigger plotlines. There is something going on but Richard just does not want to know and it frustrates me. I wish I could read the story again but out of Camillas perspective. There was something in the love angle that I wish was more explored
yes! Richard seemed like the least appropriate person to tell the story, after reading it I was still left wondering wtf was really going on
@@aimeesbookshelf2208 but in the end I do really think that this is a big part of what makes the book so good. Richard was so incapable of telling the story objectively, as in the beginning he already establishes that he has a "morbid longing for the picturesque at all costs". He actively researches plotlines and then again also just very passively hints at some, which is why we never get to know the background of some things. He romanticizes the group and the people including it, especially Henry and Camilla.
It just is so good because of this unique way of how the story gets told
I think Henry and Julian were lovers and thats why he was so devastated when julian left but idk its just a headcanon
I think have heard anyone talk about the relationship between Charles and Camilla, out of all the messed up things to happen in this book, that shook me the most. Although, this book will probably be one of my favorite books of all time, along with the picture of gray (I'm a sucker for corrupt characters)
don't think*
There were tiny hints dropped, but dang, the confirmation was still shocking though.
I KNOW I was so grossed out when I found that out…
I have a twin brother and that part of the book really sickened me!
"This is the only story I will ever be able to tell..." -Richard
Well...this is the only story I want to read.
Lol yes!!
So do we believe Richard's theory about Henry? That he orchestrated a more of the events leading to up to Buddy's death than we thought (the Rome trip for example), that he meant for Richard to find out about the Argentina tickets to pull him in and also had a plan B that involved throwing Richard under the bus?
i know i’m late but i 100% do. i never even thought of that until richard mentioned it but it made SO much sense. it seems that all richard ever wanted was approval from others - he didn’t get it from his parents so with his new group of friends he wanted to feel a sense of belonging. when henry says he knew richard was smart enough to figure the murder out it definitely seems like he’s just trying to play into richards ego. henry was smart and manipulative enough to do as he liked
@@z.4158 same. Henry knew Richard was desperate to be liked and accepted, so making him feel smart dragged him into the group even more. He needed Richard for the murder plan
He totally took Richard's book so he would have to come back and find out about the tickets!!
@@HAngeli definitely, that’s why Henry is my favorite character. He’s a well written villain
Yes, because a normal person would have been upset about that level of invasiveness. Henry brought it up himself and complimented Richard for figuring it out. Does that seem like the appropriate reaction to your friend snooping into your life?
For me, I came to love Henry after he saved Richard. Tartt's description of the cold made me feel Richard's pain. A pain relieved by no other than Henry. But as I much as I loved him for saving Richard, I slowly came to hate him once I realized how he used Richard in his ultimate plan to kill Bunny.
I think Richards blandness has a lot to do with his "fatal flaw" and the whole thing about beauty is terror. Also, I think with the thing about Bunny, we're not really supposed to feel bad but later I personally did- because why murder- and the fact that he's not there. This may also have something that may have to do with Richard's fatal flaw- he tries to see Bunny in a decent light after his death by remembering a few decent things about him. I think this is also why Richard doesn't really do anything when he learns they killed the farmer or that they need his help to kill Bunny- he sees these people in a very romantic way because of their lifestyle, their friendships, all those things, and doesn't want to really see them outside of it until he's forced to.
This could be connected to "Beauty is Terror". The whole group, to Richard, is "beautiful" "picturesque" "romantic" and therefore, terrifying. Later, Henry even tells Richard that they are very similar- he says something like "You don't care very much for people either"- so I think that Richard's "morbid longing for the picturesque" is just a longing for something horrible. Henry points out that Richard doesn't care for others very much and I think the way he reminisces on Bunny after he's dead is very superficial- he's only really reminiscing the idea of Bunny, not the actual person.
Also, the Bacchanal... i think it very much has to do with Henry's "need" to lose himself. He's the most repressed, civilized one out of the group- Bunny may be the least- so he tries to do what the Greeks did. The whole idea of the Bacchanal too is just a festival of madness, insanity, a loss of the self. The whole ritual may mark a point of madness/ insanity within the four that took part. Henry the most and Francis the least. And I think this is where Richard and Henry are similar- both have an idealized view of something, both want to escape something.
Also just something else interesting- Agrippina killed her husband, the Emporer Claudius, with poisonous mushrooms to clear the way for her son Nero. It's mentioned briefly, but when brainstorming ways to kill Bunny, Henry suggests poisonous mushrooms.
Sorry for writing so much, I like talking about this book. I'm also starting an essay about it for school so I've had to think a lot about the characters.
lol... And what does Richard Papen's remark mean "Outside literature, is there such a thing as 'the fatal flaw', that glaring dark crack that runs through a life? I used to think not. Now I think there is. And I think this is mine: a morbid desire for the picturesque at all costs"?
It's been a bunch of years since I've read this book, but I totally agree about the winter section - it is still burned on my brain as the most vivid part of the book, even though there are many more sections that are objectively more interesting. Must be that childhood spent trudging through slush!
Nothing bonds Canadians like the suffering of winter.
“This book is amazing and also awful”... you’re so right.
So many good and great books are amazing and awful. The Catcher in the Rye, The Great Gatsby, Wuthering Heights, Anna Karenina and the Scarlet Letter. That may be why the conversations keep coming. I loved The Secret History. The title may not be about the classic study. It may well be about the secrets they all had and made in life.
Henry’s death killed me. im literally in love with him
dude same- he and francis were my favorites
@Lauren Fleischer WAIT OH MY GOD-
WHAT??? HE IS A HORRIBLE PERSON!!!
@@ImmyRaeT girls loooove villainous demons
I also think it’s really easy to idealize/romanticize someone’s personality or overall presence when they’re not around to remind you of how terrible of a person they were. That’s why I think she intentionally wrote the first part of the book so that the reader would hate Bunny as much as possible and then it wasn’t until after he died that we were led to start empathizing with him and not so much justifying his murder anymore.
I recently just finished reading this book and I loved it! This was a great video and I loved hearing your thoughts! :)
I read someone else post on another website that they thought the winter part was supposed to be long, so that when Henry rescues Richard he is also rescuing the reader. The idea that when Henry shows up, this guy that Richard wants to know and become friends with, he sees how Richard is living and doesn't really say anything about it. He takes him to the hospital and then takes him in, building trust and gratitude not only between Richard and Henry, but Henry and the reader. Henry shows up and we as a reader get to move on from the winter part, and go back to the campus with the other characters and the plot. I've also read that some people loved the winter part, and for those that did, Henry showing up would be like him taking you away from something you're enjoying and throwing you back into the deep end of a murder plot. Which for those people, they most likely feel a forced thankfulness for Henry, but this could also be when the allure of Henry starts to fade.
I think that there's a lot of instances throughout the book that Donna Tartt attempts to make the reader feel like they're part of this group. In terms of Bunny's death, from the beginning I never liked him. But, the reader knows he's going to be killed, so they're anticipating it as they read, so they almost start looking for reasons to dislike Bunny (which I didn't find hard). Then right before the murder it felt like the reader was brought into the quiet moments that normally aren't written about, and we have a list like telling of all the ways Bunny is horrible to each character. It's only until after he's killed that the reader sees the other characters start to fall apart and the issues they each have. Which when you connect that to the epilogue I thought it was showing that they don't get to move on and live happy lives, that what they did changed them and is going to follow them.
As for how the reader is supposed to feel about Bunny's death I had two ideas. When I finished reading it I thought that it wasn't if the reader agreed/disagreed/ or was unsure about Bunny's murder, but looking at his murder vs the other characters and why you feel the way you do about what happened. For example, if the reader was okay with Bunny being killed, but hated what happened to Henry, why? How do you justify each character and the part they played? But I also thought that, like how you said you could imagine this playing out, that this was simply a telling of the extremes people can go to in certain environments, and Bunny's death was one of those extremes. However each reader felt about it, in the end they still see the repercussions of his death.
Thank you for this thoughtful comment! I love this idea of Henry rescuing the reader from winter; it works because the winter section is so well written that I definitely felt like I was getting sucked into the cold and the suffering.
And of course you are right; Bunny is a foil for the other characters. How we feel about them can only be fully realized in relation to Bunny, a despicable character.
richard has big y/n energy
hahahahah
i loved the winter section! some people said it felt pointless, but it felt strangely powerful to me. the isolation and richard’s mental state degrading, i think it gave valuable insight to him as a character and how he let himself get dragged into the murder. he’s easily led and sort of reckless, and i think it has a lot to do with how he was treated growing up and his own sense of self, or lack-there-of. he allows himself to wither away quite easily, and only pulls out of it when henry appears. it felt very telling.
i personally like richard, even though i’m not sure i should. i also stan francis. i feel like they and camilla got dragged into this situation by their love for people-friends and a teacher they admire-who didn’t necessarily have their best interests at heart
(side note: i think richard has bisexual energy and if there was an alternate universe where francis came back to california with him and they fell in love i would not be opposed)
Francis is the only one Richard didn't completely despise (I know he said he loved Camilla, but he always described her more as a fantasy than a person, and when she didn't fit this fantasy, he asked her to simply leave). So I would have killed for Richard and Francis to get together in the end. Richard would be incapable of being in a loving relationship with anyone else (because it's indicated that he couldn't communicate at all) and he and Francis would have understood each other. But that would have been too perfect I guess.
personally, I liked the epilogue. I was reading somewhere that the entire book was essentially a critique of higher education and elitism. The plot is just so outrageous, 6 college students at an elite university join a classics course and think they are better than everyone else then end up murdering 2 people and feel as though they should suffer no consequences then they either end up dead or miserable. So the epilogue sort of shows how these people really didn't amount to anything and how miserable their lives were after the "highs" of college. The book is pretty much telling the story of has-beens lmao.
henry is my favourite though...
ugh I hate him...but I love him
but I also totally hate him
this book made me feel alot of things :(
I aspire to be him
Perhaps therapy? 🤩
THIS BOOK READS LIKE A GREEK TRAGEDY! love your review, i’m obsessive about this book. i’ve made it a tradition to read it every autumn - 14 times i’ve read it by now.
i really appreciate the length and the opera that is this book. if some of the length doesn’t drive the plot, it sure adds to the tone and atmosphere, really helping to fully absorb you into this terrible secret. i absolutely appreciate the whole funeral fiasco, and the epilogue - really shows the unravelling of the characters instead of leaving it to the imagination - and it really drives it home as a tragedy.
I keep thinking why everyone was so afraid of the fact that Bunny knew they allegedly killed a farmer. Bunny didn’t have any evidence, what could he possibly said to the police? My college friends were possessed by an ancient god and barehanded ripped apart local farmer? Like group could have easily been each others alibi, they didn’t have any motive. Moreover it never even mentioned that there was an investigation about the farmer. I think Henry could have easily deny everything and even come up with a story that he wrote his diary to test Bunnys loyalty or smth. But even without that I can not see a solid ground for a serious investigation against those 4
This is one of my favourite books ever and I need to re-read it again!
I've always placed this book in the 90's, around the time Donna Tartt wrote the book and assumed the characters in it are old school x)
I think we're supposed to have mixed feelings about Bunny's death and the whole book
I've never forgotten the winter part, it's so intense and I really felt for Richard plus I hate cold so I totally related x)
I needed the epilogue, I don't like endings that are too open
I know lots of people feel the same about the epilogue!
Having read the other books by Donna Tartt I think that stretching scenes and plot point further than how much it was necessary is a thing that she does consistently and while I usually don't really like it for some reason I love it when she does. This slows you down and really allows you to take in what is happening and makes the fast paced sections feel even more frantic and exciting.
I reminder in the secret history there this scene right at the end when Charles is in the hospital and because of reasons Richard finds himself having to walk back to the college and there's this really long section of just him walking on the side of the road and then 50 pages later you have the climax of the novel at the hotel and this slowing down and then picking up the pace is just so gorgeous to read.
This quality of her writing is even more present in "the little friend" (amazing novel, btw, and rarely talked about). This is a 600+ pages book that an other writer would have probably done in 300 pages. Tartt takes the time to meander around and tell stories that seem pointless, and some times are, and introduce you to characters that won't effect the story (There's a plot point that takes up a good third of the book that leads absolutely nowhere and I lied it). This allowed her to create an atmosphere that makes you feel like you have lived in that town your whole life so when the climax happened its all that much powerful because of it.
Yes! You get really immersed in their world and all the descriptions which could feel excessive help you feel like they’re real
SPOILERS! I love this book and I can’t stop thinking about it. The main characters are awful people but they’re so well written and interesting (especially Henry!!!) that you get invested in their stories. I actually liked the part when they went to his funeral and didn’t think it was too long. It was supposed to be unsettling and painful since to Richard, it feels like he’s being tortured as he’s reminded that he murdered a real person who had a family.
The way I saw it was that the first half of the book builds up the characters, putting them on a pedestal and making you feel that sense of belonging and intrigue that Richard does. The second half of the book tears them down, knocking them off the pedestal. Julian was a manipulator who took advantage of lonely 20 somethings with no parental figures, not a wise and kind mentor. Henry likely intentionally led Richard right towards finding out about the farmer’s murder so he could make him feel smart and eventually get him on board with killing Bunny. Charles becomes an abusive alcoholic who tried to kill Henry when he seemed like one of the nicer members of the group. The epilogue is the culmination of this downward spiral of all the characters in my opinion. I felt such a sense of grief when the group split up and had tragic endings. It was only one year of Richard’s life but he and the classmates will be bonded forever.
The only things that really bugged me were a few aspects of the story that made no sense or just didn’t need to be there. Camilla barely had a personality so it was weird how obsessed Richard was with her. Her romance with Henry was underdeveloped. The twincest also didn’t add anything. Sorry for writing so much, just have lots of feels about this!
Wonderful description of the book……As for Camilla, I feel that she was depicted as a shallow character because this story is being narrated from Richard’s POV who sees her as this divine seductive being. He never actually gets to know the “real” Camilla. Moreover, I believe the twincest highlights the flaws of Richard. When he is told about how Camilla is abused by Charles, he never makes a move to help her. Instead, he gets jealous of Charles for being able to sleep with her. Moreover, when Henry, in a way, rescues Camilla from Charles, Richard sides with Charles. This shows that Richard never actually cared for her, he never actually loved Camilla.
@@i_hate_snakeu464 I love this explanation! I’m on a reread and I noticed that Richard described Camilla as a safe that he couldn’t crack. Their relationship kinda reminds me of Tom and Summer in 500 Days of Summer, when she obviously isn’t interested in a serious relationship but he ignores her and never gets to know her real personality. On the reread I also noticed how there’s actually a good amount of foreshadowing of Charles and Camilla’s relationship. Pretty early on, I saw Charles expressing jealousy whenever she got too close to a boy, and Bunny’s comment about incest was the only one of his remarks that upset her. I think I just didn’t want to see it.
What you said about Richard taking Charles’s side over Camilla’s makes a lot of sense. I was confused when Richard said he wanted to rape her because she went to talk him about how she was already being abused. I thought he should be mad at Charles as the abuser, but he took all of his anger out on her with the mindset of, “if I can’t have you, no one can”
Oh my god, I made the same connection between Nick Carraway and Richard as far as narration goes! I also adore Great Gatsby
I finished reading it for the first time about a month ago and I really cannot stop thinking about it. everything about it - the characters, plot, and way that it’s written just stuck with me
There are a lot of references to be able to pinpoint time period - Jane Fonda workout videos (80s) CD case - late 80s, no cell phones - before 2000s, Wheel of Fortune (80s)
I read it way back in 2018 and I still haven't stopped thinking about it. I still don't know what it is!
Also one thing I always find funny about the winter period. Richard gets saved from the cold by Henry WINTER! Gotta love Donna Tartt.
yeah!! and he goes on to say that he never really got over that Winter... oof
I feel the exact same way about wishing I'd read The Secret History in school. I straight up want to write a full academic paper about it. I reread it like twice a year.
This book has forever changed reading for me, I'm not even smart or well read enough to truly get it, but I'm just like mindblown. I wish I existed when it came out and could have read it then
Man I just finished this book and I’m obsessed, I strongly disagree with a lot of your takes (bunny being unlikable, winter section only being there for Richard to be saved by Henry). But this was a fun retrospective to hear another opinion, thank you for sharing!
What you said about the funeral scene, something about there should be more but you like it anyway... THIS! I felt this for the whole book, I think because that's how movies/books usually are set up, the big climax and all that which if course never happened because we already knew Bunny would die and even Henry's death in my opinion wasn't climatic (albeit sad!)... It's as if you as the reader (like Richard) get caught up in these people's lives somehow and you know (like Richard did at some point) that you should technically walk away but you don't!
Great review!! I couldn't agree more with how pointless certain 'acts' were in hindsight, but in the initial reading, Tartt's writing is just so alluring that you get swept up in the whole atmosphere. I'm so reluctant to recommend this book to anyone because one on hand if they'd hated it, I would accept their opinion as completely valid, but it would also break my heart!! I'm weirdly attached to this book and I cannot for the life of me pinpoint the reason
I feel the exact same!!! I've loaned my copy to a friend and I am on tenterhooks to see how she will react.
On the timeless thing... I tried to figure it out the whole book, but I took the fact that one of the FBI guys had a laptop, and the fact that they still used pay phones, to deduce that it was probably early 1990s :)
Donna's writing is so great!
I did notice too that this book is very gatsby-esque so when Richard brought it up I kinda laughed.
At first I thought Richard was that kind of blank Main character that we are supposed to project ourselves on to but every now and then you do get a glimpse of his personality and his motivations and I thought that was quite nicely done.
I do think that tartt making Bunny unlikeable was a bit heavy handed, especially because we already know that he's going to die so it's like "well I know you're making him awful so I don't feel Bad when he dies"
The more time I've had away from this book the more I've come to see Bunny as a sympathetic and complex character. I think that's what Tartt was trying to do towards the end of his life, making him more empathetic.
@@TheBookBully same. Especially reading his letter to Julian and seeing his family at the funeral. In his letter you can see how desperate and terrified he was. He knew what was going to happen but couldn’t get himself out of the group. And he was incredibly mean to his friends and impulsive after finding out about the murder, but is it that really worse than his friends who didn’t care about killing someone and only worried about getting caught?
I just finished it and I think* I loved it, but one of the things that bugs me is just how much we still don’t know at the end because of Richard being an outsider. Like at one point Camilla says that the farmer guy had his stomach torn open which is not what Henry had said about it. Also when Richard thought about violently raping Camilla it just came so out of the blue it was super off putting.
Nobody had a clear memory of the bacchanal so it doesn’t matter anyway. And what Richard thought about doing to Camilla was clearly an intrusive thought, I don’t think it’s that deep really.
The winter part also felt like a part to remind us as readers that even though Richard puts on this act he will and was always different from the rest of the group. This is my opinion and how i felt when reading it, but it was a strong reminder on to a level how different Richard truly was in sense of unlike the others he couldn't detach himself from life like the others no matter what.
I always find it weird when people call it a club or society - it's just a group of friends and to me the whole point was about how quickly friendship groups can become possessive, toxic and incestuous (usually figuratively but, you know)
to be honest, i loved the epilogue. i love that we got endings for each character. so much underlying humour in the way that it was written. I find that with most books, it is great when they have somewhat of a broad ending so that the reader can create their own ending and interpret it in their own way - but Tartt still seems to achieve this notion even after giving her characters somewhat of a conclusion - like in my mind Judy Poovey is living her best life as a television host in her annoyingly charming way (from what i remember, she became a tv host - don't quote me!), but now i also get some sort of idea of what she's doing, and still get to form my own conclusion for her - based from the epilogue. Although, each to their own, we all have different opinions and you are entirely valid. but yeah, to me it was a perfect ending.
(my guilty pleasure from this book is that i literally am in love with Henry - even though im supposed to hate him and he breaks all moral boundaries, but his character is so complex, which makes him so irritably beautiful. however, i think i feel this way as we only get to see his character as a romanticised version of himself as Richard is such an unreliable narrator in the sense that we don't truly get to know any of the characters for who they truly are - but i also think that that's the beauty of it all. But i digress, i have to admit, i might have a saviour complex (as im sure most of us do when it comes to troubled men) and i think i can change him😔)
One of the worst parts about the epilogue in my opinion was that Francis ended up marrying a woman. It was such a massive disappointment.
I also don’t know how you read the book in a day. It took me 7 weeks!
It took me a month to read. And I was so disappointed too. I guess it represents Francis’ spoiled background. That he wanted to avoid having to financially support himself and be alone so much that he’d marry a woman.
I guess it showed how demanding it can be in a family of old money. It's not for granted that you end up with the money. Sacrifices will be made to obtain this carefree lifestyle.
It was devastating, yes, but it made sense to me. It showed how caged you are, even with all the money in the world and especially without it when you're used to it. Such a stark contrast to classic ideals, when ordinary family feuds grab the characters and put them back in their reality.
Oh that’s a great point! I never thought about it as more of an obligation. Ah that makes so much sense!!
I loved this video! I feel the same way about the winter portion; I felt (or maybe looked and grasped for) so much desire for Henry in Richard’s vulnerability, and had the same thought as you, that those scenes went on forEVER for no apparent reason, but they were quite enjoyable.
I think the winter section, while serving as getting Henry to trust Richard, is about what's not there. It's the first time after meeting the Greek Class that Richard is alone and it's awful for him. He feels unmoored and abandoned and explains why he's so desperate to be a part of the group again. Now compare that feeling with those moments when Richars chooses to be outside of the group after Bunny's funeral. He's happy to not be in the group. The winter scene serves as a baseline for Richard's personal character growth.
Definitely episodic! I’m sure it’ll have an on-screen adaptation soon, and I really hope they go for a miniseries. It would suit the format so well. Also I totally agree about the epilogue!! It was such a 90s vibe with saying where everyone ended up. I feel like it should have just been it’s own chapter, and gotten much more into the details of things. I do feel like it was necessary, because of the very last page. We needed to establish both life after death and death after death. But until that part, it was too different from the rest of the book.
I also loved reading about Richard almost freezing to death and reading this at winter time, I felt that to my core
i’ve read this book in june and i couldn’t stop thinking about it either. i’ve felt every emotion possible while reading and it really changed my view on every book character i’ve ever met because all of the members of the greek class have a background to their peculiar behaviour and i just think they are very real and human, but at the same time, they all live in a bubble of obsession for the old times and the greek society, the dramatic silences and the languages. it’s an exquisite book and i loved your video!
They so terrified of ending up in prison and ruining their lives for killing Bunny. Yet they all still ended up in their own mental prisons and ruining their lives. I think Richard was never going to be truly happy no matter what life threw at him.
I have just finished The Secret History and I loved it, too. In my opinion, however, the book loses a bit of its compelling rythm in the second part - for instance, by dwelling too much on episodes such as Bunny's funeral, which I found unnecessarily long, or Charles' disturbing behaviour. I really loved the subtle, unsettling mystery that permeated the first part, especially the winter part and the scenes set in the countryside!
I also preferred the first part since the second half dragged a bit. I realized a lot of the writing in part 2 is about character development. We see the main characters’ lives slowly fall apart and how even though the cops never caught them, they all faced consequences in some way. Richard realizes how these people he romanticized so much and was desperate to fit in with are actually not at all how he thought they were.
but that’s the thing though, isn’t it? the first part is completely romanticized by richard, it’s almost whimsical, even the winter part is told as if it was a delirious meltdown. While the second part is the plain reality, with all its unpretty daily grinds and character flaws and definitely a lot less exciting.
After reading the book and looking at other people’s reactions to the characters, I felt kind of bad that I didn’t feel bad for Bunny. He really was such a grotesque person who was a miserable addition to any room. I’m not saying he deserved what he got, but I just didn’t feel bad for him. The other characters vary in their abhorrence. Francis is definitely someone I also believe was never truly malicious and who deserved better. Charles I grew to like a lot around halfway through the book and all of a sudden detest. Henry, I can’t describe why but I always admired as a character. Something about his Sherlockian sense of self is so intriguing, to Richard as much as it is to the reader. Camilla is the hardest to pin down. I don’t think I have particularly positive or negative feelings towards her. I think she became sort of a battleground on which the men in this group duel towards the end of the book, yet she is not herself an innocent or well-intentioned player.
I’m finding your channel the day after I finished this book and have SUCH conflicted feelings. I went into it expecting it to be my new favorite book just because it’s come so highly recommended to me by so many people (a lot of them not even really bookish people), but then about 150 pages in I realized I just wasn’t enjoying reading it. It was really well written obviously so read very smoothly and easily, but I disliked both the characters and the plot so much and wasn’t even finding that much nuance or complexity in my hatred of the characters that I love from books like My Year of Rest and Relaxation or even The Great Gatsby. I found the depiction of all of the female characters disappointing: from the fact that Camillas entire importance rested in Richards violent attraction to her (couldve done without his casual mentions of wanting to rape her), her weird sexual relationship with her brother, and her love with Henry revealed at the end. Much in the way that the Professor’s character was a missed opportunity for something important or complex I think Judy Poovey (?is that her name? richards neighbor the coke head) was also a missed opportunity. I kept waiting for her character to do something important or show us another side or present some complexity because she kept coming up so I figured it was for a reason but she just...didn’t? I also vividly remember this scene with Richard and Francis in which Francis makes a pass at Richard and in the narration Richard talks about how he felt it was inevitably going to happen eventually which I just...hate that line of thinking. This narrative that if you’re close with a gay person of the same sex they just must be attracted to you kind of rubs me the wrong way. Anyways, I had all these issues with this book, but then somehow at the end I found myself tempted to 5 star it as well? I think I ended up 3 starring it because I can’t deny that I strongly disliked so much of it but for some reason by the end (not the epilogue, hated that too) I was just in such wonder of this weird and grotesquely epic story. It felt so Shakespearean at the end especially with how Julian and Henry ended up. I didn’t want Henry to die and the thought hadn’t ever occurred to me, but when he killed himself it just felt like the story came full circle and it felt so right and so oddly poetic and on brand yet still unexpected for him. I love how Julian disappeared in the end too. That’s the complex and strong hatred I was looking for the whole time. Someone who is terrible, but who’s intricate terribleness is exposed in a single pitiful act. You realize how important he actually was in the creation of these people and their monstrosity, even if he wasn’t actually involved in the murders. I normally really dislike the endings of books but for me the ending here really made it. This is the worlds longest comment ever but basically all of it to say is I too have (very fresh lol) conflicted feelings about this book and it was great to see someone chomping through some of the weirdness rather than just a blanket “this book was amazing” which doesn’t really give the secret history what it’s due.
At first I agreed with you about the weirdness in the book when it came to female and gay characters, but then I realized it was actually perfect in its horribleness. Because this is Richard’s narration, and he is a very unreliable narrator. We see the story through him, hear it through his biases and weird rapey thoughts, and he so we get a story where they’re described in a weird up way. I don’t like it, but I feel like it’s absolutely accurate to the character telling us the story.
@@nbv6975 Since writing this I've talked about this at length with some of my friends who brought me to a similar conclusion. I guess I still just wish the female characters actually *did* more and were more significant to the story because regardless of how Richard sees them they can still do things and add to the plot. We expected Richard to sideline the girls, but I didn't expect that Donna would, if that makes sense. Like they were the most inactive characters in the story--all of them basically just waited for life to happen to them way more than the male characters did. But all in all yeah I've definitely come around to the uncomfortably rapey and homophobic aspects as symptoms of our very unlikeable and unremarkable narrator.
@@audreysides i was thinking the same like you but keep in mind this book is set in the 80‘s published in the early 90‘s it was a different time.
i actually really liked the epilogue and hearing about how they grew apart after the whole ordeal plus how they're all suffering in some way! i'd be so interested to know what you think about julian's role in the bachanal because i've seen some discourse about him getting them to do it and leaving because of his role in the murder?
i loved this vid so much by the way!
I know!! Julian is such a polarising character!!!
@@danielmurray3352 i love him for it honestly!
I loved the long parts that didn’t have a major effect on the plot of story, such as Richard’s experience with almost freezing to death everyday, because after all, he was a part of the story too. And while his pretentious friends were away with their family or on vacation in Italy, Richard is just stuck in Hampden with no where to go, and had hardly any idea what is going on with his friends while they were away. So, the only perspective that Richard can give at that point, is his misery in the cold.
I also loved the drawn outness of Bunny’s funeral because I feel like throughout the whole experience of meeting Bunny’s family, they all begin to feel some sort of guilt. I feel like before this, they were all consumed with selfishness and concerned with justifying the murder, and with not getting caught. But then they find themselves as murders standing before their victim’s family. They realize that Bunny was an actual person with a family, and not just someone that they went to school with who was a bigot and someone who they disliked and eventually murdered. They didn’t take into account how the murder would effect others, as well as eventually themselves.
What I absolutey love about this book is how at the behining we fall in love with all the characters and by the and of the book we absolutely hate them. I don't like the books where the characters are too good to be true. I prefer books with moraly gray characters.
Also the way the plot unfolds... It is briliant! We descover things alongside Richard but looking back the clues are sooo obvious.
Plus the fact that we can never know what happened because we only get Richard's VERY biased point of view....
This book is just a *chef's kiss
Henry getting late for the appointment. The appointment which will trigger his self; his conscience till he lives. Julian was the guy who curtained his own cowardice so skillfully, you could never say he is not 'The Gifted guide' who can chizel a plato out of you. But ironically, Henry inherited every speck of his charisma and teachings, but his malice. The bullet could pierce him but his pain of Julian's betrayal was still unscarred. Such rapt loss of all innocence is harsh! But the epilogue shouts 'having an unfortunate life'. When karma spills , it spills all over:(
I romantized it even while knowing something terrible is going to happen. I craved for thick paper, cotton shirt, suits, scenery. I hated them for ruining it. I rooted for them like Richard. I was lost when the group crumbled. I was heart broken for Henry. I hated charles for hurting camela. I went with the tale. Julian is the part I dnt understand but relate. What Julian did was what Richard should have done.
I just finished re-reading "The Secret History" this morning and I actually really like Richard. He *might* be an unreliable narrator but he got dragged into things he probably wouldn't have if he hadn't fallen in with this group. He might have been a little boring but that was almost nice compared to all the other characters in the novel. Though I LOVE Francis and Camilla just as much as I love Richard. They're the only three people in the books I want good things for by the end of the book. (I do not like Judy Poovey as much as everyone on tumblr and TH-cam and Goodreads want to make Judy Poovey happen). I really do feel the worse for the three of them, they were all just victims and by-products of three really terrible people.
Edit: I also kind of hope since Francis had to get married, he could have married Sophie and that Camilla had allowed Richard to be a part of her life when he asked and offered to help her. But that's just me.
i think the part where richard is sleeping in the cold for so many days over christmas break was important because it showed what he was willing to put himself through instead of face his real core issues with his family.
I felt that the plot was only intended as, at most, a secondary intention... I mean, we know what happens from the first line, and so instead I think we were meant to be, and were, woven into the psyches of the characters. Here, as readers, we're pulled into this murder of an intolerable human.... when do we step back and say enough! I will go no further! ? Yet we, like the characters.... keep going along, following and cheering another human who may be more tolerable than Bunny, but also more treacherous. I agree with you in that there were many questionable directions Tartt went, as with the professor, Julien, but because I was so there, and loved being there.... I have to ask, how questionable were they? If such a thing were to go down.... it's hard to see that it could go down in any other way than it did here. Great video.... you made me consider a lot of questions.
yeah i definitely feel the way you’re feeling and am still waiting to talk about some parts that are just like shocking and just happened like. the twincest? the gutteral first murder of the man that somehow got mutilated by their weird test rituals?! it set me up to think that the book would be come a lot more greek horror supernatural than it turned out to me, kind of like alex michealides
You and Olive need to do an Instagram live discussing this book!! This is one of my favorite books of all times because I can't stop thinking about it.
people taking advantage of poor richard papen’s kindness for 600 pages...
theory?? the winter sequence, where the suffering Richard felt in the winter and the kind of oppressive cold described is kind of a foreshadowing (although not really) to Bunny's death????
I've been looking for a reason to reread The Secret History, and this, this is it! I loved this video!
😘
The chapter before and with the funeral made sense for me, too. Because it felt like how the house would look. Lengthy, cold, uncomfortable, uneasy to live in. Hidden secrets in the shallow family like the painkillers in the bedroom. It was uneasy to read, but it felt like I was spending the night there as well. It was a stark contrast to the country house, where Richard felt at home and happy. I'd love to have read more about the country house though.
I just finished reading this, loved it! I felt very immersed in it, for example the scenes where they were at Francis's country house it was as if I could feel the hazy air and breeze, or the cold when Richard was in the hippy flat. It was nicely paced, it didn’t feel rushed and I quite enjoyed reading the middle of the book and didn’t feel a rush to finish it. The characters were well written, it was as if Bunny also irritated me by the time they killed him, and I can’t remember the last time I read something that made me feel so strongly about someone (I didn’t even hate Heathcliff as much in Wuthering Heights). I felt what Richard felt as a outsider when he initially joined the group.
One thing that irked me though... when Henry and Richard leave Julian's office after the letter incident, and Richard says that was the last time he ever saw Henry, but then went on to say they had final classes together...
Richard was talking about Julian when he says that it was the last time he ever saw him.
Also just realised your comment is 11 months old but I love this book so much that I wanted to point this out lol
He said that was the last time he ever saw JULIAN.
@@priiifrg sorry, I stand corrected
I feel that the epilogue left me feeling strange. Like of all the characters I feel Francis suffered the most when he was by far the least deserving of it, Richard was reduced to a simp getting rejected and Charles fucked off with little consequence despite contributing to ##Spoilers###
Henry's death
Tartt has stated the book takes place in the 80's. There's actually a lot of references, too, like the movies that Richard has to go see for the group, the music, etc. The book is awesome--I love how it mirrors the Greek tragedies that they are all studying (even The Secret History is a Greek reference) and does a great job of being literary on a meta level.
I read it two years ago and I'm still obsessed with it ❤
The winter scene really messed me up also. I think that’s what I had to put that book down for a few days 😂
I finished this today. Honestly, yes undeniably---the characters are fucked up, but it was such an interesting read. So much dilemma, at some point I questioned myself if I really thought what I thought, or did my conclusion, in some ways---is influenced by how Richard looks at it, how he presented the character, and the story to us? Out of all the things in the book, I'm glad Judy exists in it lol. Love that girl.
Lol, just you talking about the winter section of the book has me experiencing flashbacks! On paper, The Secret History should be right up my alley and yet when I read it, I hated it. Still, for some odd reason, years on I can find myself thinking about it. I've felt like I should reread it for some time, especially since I was once a classics student! But it's good to know that someone who loved the book also had a conflicted experience with it.
I was excited to learn about the spoilers but now I’m more confused. I see potential if you give us a more structured with flow narrative video. I like that you are no Vlogin and pouring tea or showing us your lunch while we just trying to find info about the book. Thank you. For your insights on this book.
I 100% agree with what you said about the epilogue. The rest of the book has such a strange context. Richard is narrating the book with no real reference to what is up with his life now. I must say I was happy reading the epilogue because the characters are at least kinda good and happy. Also Camilla rejecting Richard was the best thing I’ve ever read! Richard is like this mysterious incel and Camilla deserves better.
The way Richard talked about Camilla was so weird. My issues with her character made a lot more sense when you think of his unreliable narration. Like, of course she doesn’t have much of a personality because Richard only praises her looks and doesn’t really see her as a whole person. She’s just a mysterious fantasy to him (who he also wants to rape for some reason??). Same with her romance with Henry not making much sense. Richard doesn’t know a lot of what happens in his friend group and since he’s selfish and into Camilla, he’d probably just ignore her feelings for someone else.
I do think Richards job with the doctor made sense. It shows that he NEEDS to work in comparison to the others, and that he's willing to in comparison to Bunny. Plus it gives him a time off, a recluse, when he's in the office at night. Plus he witnesses the interrogation of Henry by the FBI. He doesn't realise it but he finds out later that the interrogation room was so close he could practically hear the conversation.
After all his job adds to his wandering in the book. He's always on the move, his room, Francis room, the country house, Henrys apartment, the twins apartment... he's always torn between them and the night hours at the office make sense to me in this context.
Okay I just finished reading this and I searched for a video of other people’s opinions because I was confused with my own. I absolutely loved this book but also hated it at the same time. I didn’t like any of the characters (but maybe Francis) and usually I am a character person, not a plot person. My sister asked me if it was good and I couldn’t give her a good response. However, I do think that is it’s appeal. It’s weird and off putting but written so beautifully that I fell in love with it.
I couldn't agree more, I only like a story if I feel what the narrator is feeling. But here, in this, I didn't feel connected at all. I liked the book to an extent but didn't understand the point of much of it. I probably expected more of Julian involvement with the group or atleast Camellia's relationship with her brother and Henry. Or atleast more of Henry's story. I think Henry or Camillia should have been the narrator and not Richard. And this guy Francis, he's going through all of this for no particular reason, I felt bad for him and for Henry, though I shouldn't be.
I am in exactly the same position. I had been putting off reading this book because I thought from all the hype it was getting that i would be disappointed, but I was pleasantly surprised. I devoured it in a few days, couldn't stop reading and now I feel a huge hole in my chest. I love all the characters and the epilogue left me with a suffocated feeling that I haven't been able to shake off. I'll be honest, at first I didn't like Henry's character almost at all (he was very bland to me) but after his death and the epilogue where Richard dreams of his ghost and walks away to nowhere I don't know why I felt a horrible nostalgia and so much sadness 😭 well I'm very sensitive probably, but I can't get over the characters, I think it definitely became one of my favorite books.
Donna Tart captures the university community perfectly. Lies, deceptions and toxic friendships. Timeless words .
I just finished this book today. People have already said it, but I liked the epilogue. My reason is simple, but it was nice. It was a little sad in some ways, but I find it nice to learn what happened to different characters in the story
As a classics student, the weirdness is ridiculously relatable. Not to the extremes shown in the book, but I know a group of Latin students who do their translations at night in a cemetery near campus soooooo.
this was great. although this is my absolute favorite book of all time by about a million light years, i know almost noone in my real life who has read it. (excepting many people i have "encouraged" to do so). so hearing from someone who has read it only once was very fascinating. thank you and believe me i would LOVE to discuss anytime in depth and for ever and ever. PS - the most insightful glimpse i ever got into this book was after watching American Psycho, and realizing i had been looking at the message of the book in a very superficial and aesthetic way (as Richard says in the very beginning... "a longing for the picteresque at all costs"). my conclusion at that point was that Bunny is the only "good" character, the innocent and doomed one who albeit with plenty of faults is grounded in trying to be a "regular" person with no experience or education from his family in being one. my cats are named Bunny and Fern, and i fell in love with my wife on our first date because she mentioned the line "looking for new ferns". i ended up rambling here but yeah, lets talk TSH. shame or fortune that Paltrow never made the movie...
I’m an struggling to read this book. You read it in ONE DAY?! 😮
I’m loving it though.!! Like the plot is taking forever but also the small print is upsetting me because it’s taking me forever to read 😂
Oh my goodness I just finished "The Secret History." I am coming off of readers high. I loved this book!! I was sad at the end and felt crazy that I connected with the characters bc they are all so messed up and well murderers.
Okay I know you posted this video a while ago but it truly feels like you and I thought the same exact thing about this book especially the Gatsby parallels and timelessness of the book! Love it
very true about the epilogue! the characters are all so interesting in this snapshot of their lives i’m not sure i wanted to know where they ended up. to every reader they were likely interpreted differently and i for one liked the unanswered questions of whether they really got away with it and whether they would go on to be successful. when reflecting on the characters i think of them as the are for the main plot rather than where they end up, which for the most part is quite underwhelming.
I just finished it today. I agree with all your criticisms except that I minded what I think are the flaws very much. It was way too drawn out, and the main characters were despicable people, although I agree that Francis was a more sympathetic character. Without getting into spoilers, they didn't just do "such a terrible thing to somebody", they did multiple terrible, horrific things to others and each other. If that was a story with less educated people it would be seen in a completely different light. Does ennui among the rich and self-proclaimed intellectuals justify virtually any behaviour that lesser mortals would be condemned for? They were a hot mess, and I was left feeling like I need a shower.
I think the point of the book is exactly that : to show us that no matter how privileged you are and what social class you belong to, you still can't outrun the demons coming to haunt you. After Bunny's death, each one of the protagonist's horrible trait is revealed. Social class and level of education isn't enough to justify your actions, that's why Donna didn't want us to be involved with the characters from the start, didn't make them likable. Their complete downfall towards the end of the novel is so satisfying for that exact reason.
@@Books-and-coffee0 I completely agree that she didn't make them likeable. My takeaway was not any degree of satisfaction at their downfall. In fact, these smug, self-entitled brats (I realize Richard has a different backstory) didn't have that far to fall because they never achieved any heights. I personally didn't feel like I was on a journey, so much as on a voyeuristic slog into the all too real world of moneyed freeloaders whose actions are seen in a different light... deeper, more complex, and more interesting. I'm not knocking the author, and each of us bring our own subjective experiences, personal beliefs, etc., into what we read.
Such interesting perspectives here. I think there's something about rich, educated arrogant people who do grotesque things that is appealing, for some reason. Maybe it gives us a real reason to hate them? Puts the reader on an elevated moral ground?
i just finished reading this book last week and i too have lots of thoughts and feelings. overall, i was quite let down, probably because it's been so hyped up lately. before i read any "dark academia" books i had this assumption about what that was, and my template for it was Harry Potter. so, automatically, if there's no magic, i'm just already a little disappointed.
i assumed the book took place right around the time the author wrote it, which was what, early 90s, late 80s? what's fascinating, as someone who graduated high school in 99, is reading about a college experience pre-computers. i just barely missed it, and oh man, what a difference that seems to have made. i mean, these people just play cards all the time and party? how quaint!
this book is quite good for a first novel, but it definitely feels like something written by someone who just graduated college- the academic focus, the observations of her fellow students. maybe if i were in college, or younger, i would have been more intrigued with the story. and in college i did know people who were in a sort of fandom of a professor, and some other guy who wasn't a professor, but was closely associated with some people at the school. so, i get it! people do seem to get really into very specific things when they're trying to forget their identity in college.
the story could have really used some editing, with all those bits (the winter in that weird warehouse over a dam - like, WTF?, the funeral) getting cut out or at least shortened considerably.
and yeah, what's up with the professor hardly being part of the story? i thought for sure he would have led the ritual and/or been the one to encourage the murder.
there should have been a lot more showing and less telling. the whole ritual is just relayed to the main character after it happened. the reader doesn't get to be present for it, which just feels like such a cop out.
the story would been better told without a first person narrator, maybe, but i do see your point about The Great Gatsby parallel, and that would make sense, because, as i said, it's clear the author was still in that academic mind set when she wrote the book, and mimicking or being inspired by a great work of literature would make perfect sense.
finally, what's the point of them being greek students? we didn't get nearly enough explanation about what that was all supposed to mean- like, the greek philosophy supposedly underpinning this group's wonky mindset.
I'm listening to the book, narrated by the author. Not even through part 1 of 5 parts (of audiobook recording). I can't listen without taking a break, even listening to another book! So it'll take me a while to listen to the whole story (I THINK that will happen).
The story brings me back to my college years - mid to late 70s. There is a terrifyingness of those years: youth released into a new world that is like an experiment, with no boundaries, freedom from supervision (authority, and the desperate love from that authority), no responsibilities except to survive academically. In essence, college provides nearly a tabula rasa experience.
I think that's why I may finish it.
i'm late by a whole year, but i just finished this book like 3 days ago. the part that made me the most sick was when Henry shot himself. i just find it so eerily poetic. like, that was the most heroic thing he could think of doing in that situation. also, the winter section was probably my favorite. i don't wanna say that i relate to it, because i physically don't, but i think that i emotionally do. he's so physically cold and isolated in that section, and when i was reading that, i felt exactly the same way, except mentally. i was about to move, and all my friends had left me. i could relate his physical feelings of being cold and alone to my mental state.
It was so nice to hear your thoughts! I loved the book but also had very conflicted feelings. I actually really liked the epilogue as I was very curious to know what happened to everyone
I read it for the first time in February and can’t stop thinking about it! 💕
Glad I am not alone in this! :'D
I just did a search for videos about this book because I just read it and I needed to talk about it too, and this video is EXACTLY what I was looking for!
totally agree with what you said about Richard --- all the way through, all I could think was 'these people are so interesting and Richard is so BLAND, why the hell are they hanging out with him??'
also agree with what you said about Julian - she built up his character at the beginning in a way that seemed like he was gonna be a HUGE part of the plot, and then he ended up doing...nothing?
also I hated both the epilogue and the prologue -- I don't understand why the prologue was there, why did we need to know they killed bunny before we even knew who any of the characters were? curious to know whether you think that actually had any purpose
This was my main thought the whole time!
I'm really aching to read The secret history and i want to really understand it in depth and not have the literary references go over my head so what works /legends should i be familiar with before reading it? it might be mentioned in the video but i'm trying not to spoil it for myself haha sorry
They talk a lot about Greek myth so you could read some ancient Greek drama like The Oresteia and Medea. In a way, this story reads like a Greek tragedy with the theme of circularity and being chased by the consequences of your own actions. Everyone in this book is messed up and this was the author's intent, to deconstruct the idea of equating beauty with moral good.
Crime and Punishment, definitely. I think you should read it before The Secret History.
This book is the sick love child of Heathers and Dead Poet Society change my mind