CNC Machining a Fireball Tool Fixture Plate
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- In this week's video I work on machining one of my Fireball Tool cast iron fixture plates using the Milltronics cnc mill. This is giving me some much needed practice using the machine and the controls. It' been a great training and learning exercise going over some of the more basic features of cnc machining. I will be using the cast iron fixture for some power scraping practice as well.
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I wouldn't let all these self proclaimed experts get under your skin. Just ask them to provide a link to their videos for all to critique. Keep doing what your doing.
Remember there’s some of us watching this channel that has no clue how to turn that machine on you doing good man keep it up
I’ve had my CNC for a year now and I’m still amazed and nervous every project 😮 😬 enjoy the learning
I can't blame you for being cautious. That's an expensive machine to crash. Kudos for learning CNC on your own.
Truly fascinating. Hats off to you for taking on the vertical learning curve, and thank you for your honesty and openess bringing us along for the ride 👍
This is great, kudos for jumping into all of this and letting people watch it.
It's really awesome to watch someone who has so much knowledge, experience and expertise learning and modernizing. It's so inspiring and shows, you CAN teach an old dog new tricks. In my mid 40's feeling lost where I am and wanting to expand my abilities and find the place thats been alluding me for so long, watching you doing all this really gives me some hope. Thanks for sharing, I really look forward to watching you grow.
I'd check the jaw lift on your vice to make sure it's acceptable when using the Piranha Jaws. I only use the serrations for first ops because of that. Then I switch to parallels for the second op so I can whack the part down on the parallels.
I was surprised when he was try to get the allen key out of the bolt how much the jaw lifted actually. It seemed way too loose for a new vice...
I'm so happy to see you doing cnc stuff now, you have a solid foundation with your manual skills and expertise for learning it to a high degree of excellence.
You are doing very well, Adam.
When you start writing in G-code, if you are still afraid of Z crashing your cutters after proving the program, turn on single block mode if your machine has it. This makes it so it optional stops after every line.
Then you press cycle start until you complete your z rapid down and then press cycle start again with finger on feed hold and let the machine go. If you don't crash, turn off single block and start and watch the chips.
Is there a difference b/t opt stop and single block? I run a Tsugami lathe at work and it has both options but I only ever use opt stop.
I can confirm this is the best way to do it! And also offsetting the Z axis above the part a few inches and then running the program will show you exactly what is happening and where. And always keep your hand on the feed hold
Don't mind the know-it-alls. Usually they know only one thing well, and rest is complete mystery. You sir are a machinist, learning a new way of doing things. We all know you'd be able to do that stuff with any tools in your shop(s!). I know it's easy to say not to mind them, but you got this! You are showing that you're willing to learn and keep your skills up to date.
I hope soon(ish) we'll get to see you do things with the shaper again. I still find watching it do its job weirdly relaxing.
Thanks so much Adam for showing us this learning process. Really interesting to watch
The surface finish with the G&E shaper looks so much better, at least on camera anyway.
Very exciting, enjoying your learning experiences.
Love your content bud, I’m a wood guy so different party but I love all the guys commenting about too slow, etc., it’s different when you work and own the machines you’re running, much respect brother
Two tips i can give you is to try to lead in and lead out off of the work to get a good even cut, And mount that shell mill on a low profile holder. Itl vibrate alot less and you can run it at faster speed/feed.
It is fantastic that you are showing the learning process and expressing the need to for practice. Experience is key and the only way to get there is the way you are doing it. Watching you grow in your knowledge is really great!
Thank you for taking us along with you on your CNC learning 👍🏻
You're doing great! A few tips, Never trust anyone elses program, Never get too comfortable but be comfortable. Like riding a motorcycle respect the asphalt. You will never get over being careful as manual machining is your first love but Im confident though you wont be as fast but you will be the best. You can also modify your g54 z offset as well.
"Anyone who stops learning is old, whether at 20 or 80. Anyone who keeps learning stays young. The greatest thing in life is to keep your mind young." - Henry Ford
Great video, thanks for taking us along on your journey learning new things. If you stop moving forward you rust in place.
I've really enjoyed your channel for several years and have every confidence you will continue to grow and learn. I'm strictly a manual machine guy, so all the fancy CNC stuff just isn't my bag. I'll be looking for any manual stuff you put up but will pass on the CNC.
Hey man you're doing awesome haters gonna hate lol. On your finish face mill pass try feeding only in one direction and rapiding from end to start each pass. It will look better and probably give you a better finish.
Absoultely! 'Always' in the climb cut for finishing.
It is a lot more interesting watching you learn this and figure it out step by step, that if it was some pro that just zips through the whole think. I am not a machinist, but I started watching you shows long time ago because of the care you take are setting things up in the lathe getting them perfectly indicated, when I was young we had a lathe in our shop, and we never did anythong loke that we just put them in the 3 jaw and hope for the best, even though we had a 4 jaw
If you are learning this in industry, you will be alongside someone who does exactly that, zips through the whole thing in record time. You just have to lump it and try to keep up; a situation of 'You don't have to be a 'computer geek' to work here, but it helps'.
A great peice of equipment. Once you master it it will give very acurat & repetative results. Worth the money & time to set it up.
Crawl before you walk. Walk before run. It a totally different world.
Adam, great video!!! I see that you are entering the middle of the stock and ending in the middle. If you change the end of the program to run off the corner you will not have that little vertical spot in the final product. I am not an expert in this field yet but I was doing that in the beginning and noticed that in the finish. Again great video and looking forward for more!!!
that is one of the best videos you have done really smart job.
You should have dowel pinned the mount to the casting, it will move while machining parts and screw with your accuracy. Hope you catch it.
I'm one of those computer guys. You are the guys I"m really interested in. You will forget more about machining then I will ever learn. However, we're trying to make those computer things easy to use so guys like you can use them and make the stuff you do be easier and more complicated then ever before. I love watching your learning. It is following exactly to what I am doing with 3-D printing. I've already become an expert in Autodesk stuff so its the transforming it into code a machine understands is quite the learning curve. You are coming along just fine. Keep going and stop listening to the trolls. You are doing every step I had to and I've been spending the last two COVID years learning. Thanks Abom79. Grandpa/pa would be more then proud (I still love that photo. You were what, 12?, when that was taken).
@abom79 you should think about putting in two locating pins to have a perfect positioning in the base plate at all time :) so you can swap them out without bothering about relocate the fixture plate all the time :) (Thinking about putting it on the cnc to make adjuistments and so on...)
I'm not really sure about this. But that vise seemed a bit small for those bolts. 😁
Thanks Adam for bringing use along! I appreciate all the time and effort it takes to do so.
Be safe out there brother!
Another note with figuring out chamfer depths, start out high and just offset or z minus in the program a little bit at a time until you get what you want
Wow, this is going to be be exciting. Been watching your channel, as well as John and John (Saunders and Grimsmo) for several years. The Johns have experience in CNC but are not really machinists. Adam has a machinist background, so very interesting to follow his journey into the CNC world..
I can tell he's not used to so much hands off with the new machine. Great job too
Adam, side note and way off topic: When I was a maintenance planner at the Freeport Sierrita operations loaction (Arizona), I purchased alot of items from Motion Industries including modifications of equipment that we already owned. Nice to see the learning process does not stop in your videos.
Really enjoy watching you work.
When I’m doing a casting when I touch z I’ll do it in three spots and average the offsets just a quick tip (hand probe 54 55 56z) Walter 2” 1200rpm 30-40ipm try to keep everything short for length too
Fascinating to watch. I too am terrified watching the Tapping operation….
It definitely is intimidating to move into new territory, but your persistance and caution are good virtues.
I'm going to enjoy the programming as I am getting into CAD design and layout for my 3d printer.
Your new shop realy looks nice, I'm sure you are happy to finally see it coming together.
Anxious to see what different tooling and speed and feed rates will make on finish,lots of stuff to experiment and learn about.
Keeping a book of personal notes is an excellent choice,I sometimes take pics for help.
Good luck,stay safe and well.
It's amazing to see this cnc stuff. I have never used cnc in machining. With the chips flying ect, I can't help but think how great it would be if the machine had an auto clean program.😁
I really enjoyed this. Thanks.
Best news, Abby is ok, the people on TH-cam sites are more important that the work or skill they do.
I really don't like using straight flute taps on blind holes on CNC. Spiral flute tap tends to work better for me but you are able to get away with using straight by material used and air / flushing coolant. 👍
Coming from a cnc guy, honestly there’s nothing wrong with using old school manual techniques on certain parts. Hell even using an edge finder to find center is just as fine as using a probe. In fact incorporating manual into cnc is often beneficial because there’s a million ways to do one thing. It’s just about what’s easier for the operator to get the same job done
If u wand a good finish change one of the inserts in the Schell mil to a big nose radius instert, a wiper blade we call is
Really nice job. I am in the same boat you are. You're going to get really frustrated at times just learn from it and move on!!
Getting a shorter shell mill holder might help your surface finish some as well. That one you have is really long for the rigidity of the machine.
He mentioned that he has a shorter one on the way, it's been on backorder
I don't have a CNC that is built for metal but to learn on my wood CNC I use MDF boards to figure out what but will do each step. Also I noticed that you manually adjusted your program during the flatening stage. I would leave the program as is and just re zero before runing the next step. Which for you was the drilling and taping. Just my 2 cents, But I used mostly rough lumber that has to be flatened first before I can run the progam to make the parts I am making.
great content I love seeing watching anything machining and if you start on manual who knows what you may end up using in years to come pls keep it up Adam. And slow and steady is best, cutters cost money lol. Hi from Mick in the Uk
Usually it's better to go in to single step to look at the part. All machines are different.
Great work mate, love your videos. From Australia 👍
Double checking and going slow while you're learning is far preferable to crashing the spindle. I bet in a few months you'll be to the point where you could almost program it for something like this in your sleep.
Hey Adam see if the controller has a "dry run" button/feature, that should help you prove out programs without having to modify parameters.
Great content as always. On the topic of threading, look into thread milling. It gives a lot of control over the fit of thread. You might already know this but just thought I'd mention it.
Serrated for 1 op or first op. Flats with parallels for following ops. Serrated can't give repeatable accurate work holding. The part can lift or twist different each time you clamp it depending on your torque or even the material itself. Obviously none of this matters if you're not trying to be critical/accurate.
We have an old Milltronics Partner MB18 in our shop that still works great! The guy who ran it left the company about a year ago so the machine has not ran since. The guys in the shop now are not CNC machinist. We all are manual machinist. We have this machine at our disposal but nobody is interested in learning this old machine,
Wish you were in the UK would love to get her going
It is good to see you working with the CNC mill, and I hope you have fun and can learn something.
Can you tell me the model and brand of the gooseneck flashlight that you used on the spindle? (12:20-12:21)
Looking good!
Go your speed Adam, we are learning with you. When I win the 1.6 Billion tonight Ill buy one of those machines too.🤣
The chatter was because the corners of that square work were the furthest away from the main mass of where it's held in the vise, has nothing to do with the casting. Reducing the feedrate would have helped but it doesn't look like is hurt the finish much anyway.
Keep up the good work.
I would find this more interesting if I had a cnc mill.
Yeah - I watch to learn. Nothing to learn here.
Go over to Edge Precision, he has a few good videos about how he does the first run to ensure that he doesn't crash the tool. Some amazing work as well
Quick question. How much the entire video took? was it in a single day? I'm asking to see your learining speed cause I'm learning too.
I see you in the future being able to make short instructional videos of how to do some basic NC operations. Be confident you will be there directly. Teaching things deepens your own level of understanding.
Great content
What about adding a couple dowels to permanently and accurately locate the base to the plate?
When you were young and first started machining, did you KNOW the proper feed rates, proper RPM's, etc? Your are young again and learing all over again! Don't listen to the naysayers. PS Free advice is worth what you paid for it a lot of times.
Do you have or are you going to setup mist/flood coolant on the mill?
You don't use coolant or oils when machining cast. It collects the carbon and causes problems.
I think he git the coolant filled and running a few videos ago.
@@garymurt9112 oh now way-I had no idea. Learned something new today 👍.
How much did that machine cost you? I'm on my way out of trade school and would love a home CNC set up. I've got my eye on a few small machines, but this one looks really nice.
I think you should shorten up your face mill extension. That's probably why the surface finish isn't so great. That's a lot of unnecessary deflection.
Sorry to hear people are being negative about you using the mill. Everyone is slow at the beginning of a new way of doing things.
Keep up the good work, thanks for sharing this with us 👍
Ain't it a shame that folks do that. Everyone knows better these days. Can't let a dude just be on his journey. So stoked for Adam to be jumping in on CNC stuff.
I don’t know if anybody has told you this lately, but I think your doing a really good job Adam. Everyone will criticize when you don’t do something 110% but fail to tell you how well you did the other 100 things perfectly. Gotta love those critics.
Well said.👍
Here here
Most comments on the CNC have been supportive and instructive, and he followed through on the cutting air option. The use of the rapids override and the like will come with practice but should have been emphasized during his 2 courses beforehand. He is not a kid who should expect a hug every 5 minutes. Learning this stuff along side an experienced machinist in industry, you either learn quick or get replaced by the next kid, no explanations needed.
@@richardjones7249
Adam is doing a lot better than me. I have a small welding shop and I purchased a CNC plasma cutter. After a few months I gave up and got rid of it because I couldn’t get my head around programming or running programs. The Computer stuff was just all too hard. In my defence I’m 66 years old and have never owned or operated on a computer. Wasn’t interested. If my iPad didn’t have voice to text I probably wouldn’t be able to post this comment😃👍
Well said agree 100%! 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Adam
This is the first episode where I felt I might have something to offer.
Let's start with: on the very first cut I ever made, I hit a weld and broke the spindle. Luckily, there were no cameras running.
Over the years this is what I have to offer someone new to CNC:
Never hit cycle start until you are confident.
Cutting air is definitely a confidence builder.
Limit yourself to one new process per cycle.
If you need to do 3 new processes, simply do them one at a time.
Practice with plastic (HDPE - High Density Poly Ethylene). It is very kind to your machine and tools when things go awry.
Bring your machine up to speed using the Rapid Control Knob. Within seconds, you will know all is well.
Manual machinists do well with conversational, while CAD and CAM is new territory.
We all learn at different speeds. It is not a race nor a contest. Not everything comes easily.
When things work well, review what you did to make that happen.
When you make 3 errors in a row, shut down and spend the rest of the day cleaning, doing maintenance and editing.
When your machine first crashes, you will most likely watch it happen without doing a thing.
The second time your machine crashes you will hit the kill switch faster than a toupee in a hurricane.
We all know YOU can make big chips, so no need to prove it with your new CNC machines.
Keep up the fine work!
Unsolicited advise is cheap, repairing damaged equipment is not.
Love that you showed that you are taking notes, and building your own reference guide. As for the people that keep saying you are doing it wrong, they can shut up. I think you are doing good, and I love that you are bringing us along on the journey. I've played with 3d printing, and a little CNC work too (using desktop stuff, so nowhere near your level) and can appreciate just how steep the learning curve is.
Use shorter tools whenever you can, it effects the finish and the ball bearings. And always a small finish cut to prevent ridges at axis change.
Stress less about the 'expurts' and armchair manual or die brigade. It's your journey and thanks for sharing 😊
I mean this 100% constructive/ not being mean but you need to quit calling “ your guy” when you get stumped. Stand there at the control and keep pushing buttons and reading manuals till you get it. Hard learning is the quickest way to get to where you want to be. A baby will take much longer to learn to walk if someone is always there to carry them. Trust me this is coming from a fellow self taught/still learning cnc guy.
Some people learn a lot from teachers and tutors. What worked for you will not be right for everyone. Adam will find his own way, just like everything else he's done.
YOUR SHOP YOUR WAY ADAM
Exactly exactly 👍
Don't listen to the naysayers Adam.. for a guy that cut his teeth as a manual machinist you're doing great..! Keep at it and before you know it you'll be running that thing like a pro! 😉👍
If you are interested, I have hundreds of hours of setting up CNC machines of a multitude of types, from Rock cutters, waterjets, electronic pick and placers, laser cutters, milling machines, plastic and aluminium extruders, house framing robots, Knitting robots and so on.
I can offer you a few tips to make your life easier from the start,
One the vice is very pretty but completely unnecessary, and could cause you pain as you go on. The reason you have chatter is the vice btw.
The second is, trust the machine to know it's coordinates, unlike setting up in a manual, or semi manual machine, there is no need to use the edge detector at more than two points.
Regarding the start work position, starting in the middle of the x-axis is going to cause you problems as you get more complicated parts. Try starting on the corner closest to the tool and curve into the edge (as you are doing now).
Three, use the holes in the bed as locators for your parts, they are extremely accurately drilled, if you are worried about hitting the bed, put a sacrificial sheet of material under your parts.
Four, you will break tools (especially the small ones), everyone does, have spares.
Five, The machine has a home position, all other points are relative to that, so it is always a good choice to set your part X,Y,Z, and your drawing reference 0,0,0 a standard distance from the machine home. Then you will know that every job is going to start there, it will really reduce stress.
Six, CLOSE the doors. Safety, I cannot emphasise enough the need to close them. I have seen nearly 30 people who got injured by these robots, they are so powerful you cannot get out of the way fast enough. Lost limbs, fingers, hands, tools embedded in the chest, and even one guy at a steel mill was never seen again, he had a habit of defeating the blast doors on the pouring vessels to scrape the dross off the start of pour. No one saw what happened but we suspected he got sucked into the melt, there was nothing found of him. At the same time I was diagnosing a fault on the robot that cut the welded and x-rayed pipe into standard lengths.(With the customer,CEO,Plant Manager etc watching my every move). Sorry to be so macabre but safety is paramount.
Seven, Sequence of operations, you will find a rhythm that you like, but I've found in most instances that depending on the part they are either a pyramid or a bowl, Pyramid you start outside and work up, bowls start inside and work out.
Eight, if you have say more than five holes of the same size, give the tool a break, drill five, then do something else, then back to drilling, repeat, the drills will thank you for it, and tool change is very quick.
Nine, Don't be afraid to set multiple instances of the part in a grid pattern, and use replicate to copy the cut functions for each. It's up to you if you want to say cut all the outside's before tool change and the next step on each, or complete a part before working on the next in the array.
Ten, save your designs, on multiple machines, multiple devices and memory systems. There is nothing more frustrating, than having to build a CNC program all over again, due to a bad memory stick or lost password.
And finally, make copies of the machine software, take copies of the passwords, setup numericals, coordinates, etc etc, and take them off site.
Well that’s about 100 times faster than your shaper.
Yea, but you can't deny that the shaper is just a wicked-cool old-school piece of machinery!
Might be worth putting a camera on the screen, and including that as an inset as you set up the runs/ do the entries. Would also give you something to reference/ go back to when trying to remember how to do an op.
A great free program for feeds and speeds is called FSwizard, You can set your workpiece material, tool material, size of cutter, number of flutes ect.... And it will spit out a good starting point for RPM and feederate
What up Adam, my name is Daniel I'm a 33 year old die maker. I was lucky enough to apprentice under older die makers that trained me in extremely accurate manual machining, such as form grinding tight die features. After I learned conversational programming on a prototrack, then I moved to programming with cam on machining centers and E.D.M. machines. Now I have my own tool and die company where I design build and run metal stamping die all in house for the auto, aerospace, military industries. My point is your doing a great job, I have picked up great information from your channel and your entertaining. Keep doing what you're doing, you will be doing advanced cam programming in less than a year 👍
you have a function called single block on the machine, it's a button on the control panel. it is a very nice feature when you run a program for the first time. it will make it so that the machine will only do one movement/command of gcode at a time for each time you press cycle start, which gives you more time to see if there is something wrong, and maybe a little more peace of mind.
I agree with you about learning to program directly on the machine and not just using Fusion 360. once you've learned it, it will often be faster to program simple operations directly on the machine than going back and forth to fusion 360.
keep practicing and you will be surprised how quickly you learn👍
Not sure the HP on that spindle or its torque curve, but we have had much better success running a slightly smaller facemill, and keeping it as short as possible.
Smaller diameter means more rpm for the same sfm.
If you play your cards right you can get a larger number of teeth per minute which means more material removed for the same width of cut.
I would say your largest issue is the length of that face mill.
Kennemetal makes some face mills that are integrated direclty into the machine taper. Doesn't get much more rigid than that.
Our workhorse facemill on our VM3 with the 15k spindle is a 1.25" 4 flute iirc for P, M, S materials.
And we use a shear hog for N materials.
It would be a waste if he was stuck on some old manual lathe in his garage for the rest of his life. Moving forward and learning new skills is the only reasonable thing to do. He's been a legit machinist for a long time and probably want's to be in the future too and not just a youtube maker or a content creator. I'd imagine so.
Hey Adam, congratulations on that beautiful part! But regarding the face mill and the finish it's leaving, I think looking into a shorter holder to increase rigidity and reduce deflection a bit might help...but the right speeds and feeds and inserts are important too.
Keep up the great work and content!
Abom you are doing great. Iv been out of machining for 4 years now but i think i remember getting vendor books from the insert companies. And they have suggested speeds and feeds for the tool and inserts you are using. I have piles of notebooks full of notes. Keep lost of notes. One thing that scares me about watching you. Is anytime i was proving a new program i never took my finger off the feed hold button. Man as soon as you get comfortable with it you will mess up and crash the hell out of it. Never trust a program till proven. Good luck you doing great
Am I missing something, but I'm missing some reference pins between the bottom plate and the fixture plate.
It seems to only reference on the bolts? This would be a poor reference for X,Y
100% correct on the feed and speeds talk! cnc is so disconnected, it has no 'feel' like manual machines! when I first started running cnc I was way too slow then as I learned the machine and tools I could push them to their optimal speed. No worries on you being slow for now youll be flying through parts soon enough.
Try a 0° lead in instead of a 90° lead in. It's less likely to shock the tool and leave a witness mark on the edge of your material. Also the vibration when cutting the perimeter of the cast iron only happened at the corners. It was the furthest point from the bolts with the least amount of support. Everything you're learning right now is putting another crease in the gray matter. Keep walking through it and that crease will get deeper. Keep up the good work Adam!
I think the periodic chatter, which only happened around the corners, is due to resonance: it constructively interfered with the diagonal, but not the width. If your machine supports "jittery" random spindle speed variations (sorry, I can't remember the official terminology), that may make those resonances go away.
Another trick I have learned with programs, not necessarily CNC, is I create a Function Key Cheat Sheet that I hang on the control panel. Gives you a quick reference to use in case you forget what Function Key you want instead of having to go through your notes. This also helps you to learn them faster. You are doing great and approaching this from a smart way. Thanks very much for sharing.
Nice work there man! Don't let anyone give you a hard time about learning to walk before you run. In regards to speeds and feeds I will say I like sandvik a lot because there website makes it easy to get cutting data for the tools and they always run well at the recommended speed and feed. Also a CAM system really will make it easier for you to program complex parts and I do think you get better tool life and MRR out of the more modern tool paths. That being said there is a learning curve with that too....
It's been great watching you learn CNC. Everyone loves to present themselves as an expert, but seeing the journey to mastery is rare. Keep up the good work!
You are doing a great job on the CNC. Ignore the critics and just listen to those who offer positive advise.