What Classes are for

Designing a character class for your favorite Role Playing Game?
Making those classes "good" is less about mechanics than you think.
#dnd #rpg #gamedesign #modulargames
Art from CC0, CC1
Video link to the Ugly Goblin: • Classless Skill Trees ...

[@RIVERSRPGChannel]

Interesting

[@CantRIP9389]

The recent modifications to DC20's multiclassing makes parts of character development a bit like a skills system.
Every 2 (?) levels you can progress as a Martial, Spellcaster, or Hybrid, no matter what the official class is, and when you do points go up accordingly to that choice and you can access features at the same time. Flexible to meet any character concept within balance.
...
Yeah, classes exist to focus concept. Too often they lock characters into those concepts, though... like the training wheels pedal the player instead.

[@humblegallipot]

I prefer classless systems. If there are classes, I like them to be lightweight

[@ModularGames]

I'm not sure if I prefer class-based or class-less, but I find I'm leaning more and more toward being lightweight as well.
More than that though, I find I am heavily inclined toward "open" systems, as opposed to ones which are "closed" in that all available options are pre-defined. I think modern games are somewhat starved for "open" systems in games... which is a shame, since it limits creative freedom.

[@CatOnACell]

i think it's because it gives people a place to start their fantasy.
each class is supposed to be an architype that allows you to control the world. the rogues and bards embody the tricksters. paladins and clerics embody the protection myths. druids and rangers have the "one with nature" architypes. fighters and wizards are mastery of either knowledge or physicals kill.
while you aren't sure what you want to play you can at least know "I want to control the world through martial prowess and knowledge" battle master fighter or monk good to go.

[@ModularGames]

It looks like you've caught the vision.

[@douglasphillips5870]

Classes are narrow. If you're playing a class based system, sometimes you have to go outside of the prescribed focus of the class. For example in D&D the wizard is the person who gets power from study, so you'd think it would make a good nerd character, but they don't get many skills. For that character concept, it's better to play a arcane trixter rogue, or a lore bard

[@ModularGames]

I think your example is less a problem with classes in general, and more a problem of doing a bad job creating classes that represent an archetype.

[@urgentfusionguy7143]

Personally, I hate classes, and I avoid using class-based systems at all costs.
The two big issues with classes is that they (A) limit creativity of players and (B) limit character options.
Using D&D as an example, suppose you wanted to play a sneaky "blade of the gods" type character. Well, for the theming you probably want Paladin or Cleric; and for sneak bonuses you probably want Rogue. Suppose you start at first level and you now have to choose only one of those classes. Also, with the way ability gating works, you may have to wait a long time for the actual relevant part of a constituent class to come online for your vision to be realised.
Further, taking Rogue and sneak attacks as an example; there are mechanics that encourage certain classes to act certain ways. That's fine in theory, but in practice they end up *discouraging* everyone else from playing that way at best, or flat out removing options from players at worse. Players should always let the Rogue get the first sneak attack off because they'll be most rewarded from it and won't be punished if the surprise is lost. Another example would be a character trying to shove or trip an enemy. If that character isn't a Battlemaster fighter, then you're at a bit of a loss. You either allow them to perform the maneuver - in which case, why would anyone choose to play a Battlemaster at your table? - or you don't allow them to perform the maneuver - which leads to fights being slogfests slapping HP bars against each other.
Compare all that to a non-class/skill-based system and you can just put points into the abilities you want to specialise in, and at worst have gameplay options locked behind Skill ranks, although most skill-based games I see these days don't limit such things.
tl;dr: Classes bad, skills good.

[@ModularGames]

To be honest, I agree with most of what you're saying here. Skill systems offer A LOT more flexibility.
Skill based systems have issues too, of course. Decision-paralysis (especially for new players) being at the top.
That said, the worst offenders for 'bad classes' are the ones which--not only have the problems of a class-based system--but also fail to deliver on having the class give a strong identity.