Why do Trombones have triggers, and what do they do???
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ธ.ค. 2014
- This video attempts to tackle the questions relating to trombone's triggers; why trombone's have them, and what do they do.
Please let me know if you think I've missed anything out here. If I didn't cut out all the ramblings and technicalities from my recording, this video would have been nearly 3/4 of an hour long... Yeah, I get carried away.
Anyway, I hope you like watching, and please remember to like, comment, and subscribe if this type of content interests you :)
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TRIGGER WARNING!
😂😂😂😂
Believe it or not, I've known trombonists who've played for 6+ years ask what the trigger does just as I have known a tubist who played for well over 10 years never know what the 4th valve was for
Wow!
I had only played for a few months in a student model trombone when someone explained what the trigger did.
im going into my senior year and im the low brass section leader. I just now found out how this works
I'm in 8th grade, just got to try playing a tenor trigger trombone, and knew about them before that but never shown too much attention to them until now
I’m a third-year trombone and I USE a trigger.
We call the trombones without a trigger a peashooter
+SmartGamer heh ...
Yunyoung Kim yeah
Yassssss
yes
Triggers are for trombonists with short arms.
After 25+ years of playing with a trigger, I've just got a pbone. I hadn't realised just how reliant on my trigger I had become.
I have a bass trombone where both triggers are in the same place and that makes it really hard to switch between the two on fast passages. The small rotating bit that helps your finger slide across the triggers broke off too. But it's a school rental so you get what you get. Someday I'm gonna buy my own bass trombone.
TRIGGERED
I had to like this.
Great video. I've been learning on a small - bore straight tenor trombone for nearly 7 months. I got a large - bore B flat with F attachment trombone last week, and the biggest problem I had was holding the instrument.
I had no idea the second bassbone trigger puts it in Gb, all this time I thought my schools instrument was messed up.
before I watch this I'm going to guess to make flames come out.
Facts
Another excellent presentation from my favourite producer of videos on brass.
These videos are so informative and interesting!
Blake McManus I know right?
love the triggers! been playing a medium bore horn with a trigger forever, and man it's so convenient! 😁👍🏻
I really wanna get a large bore or bass trombone one day!
I saw a friend use this and he barely had to move his slide.
Wow
You didn't mention the fact that as the overtone series of notes in any position gets lower the distance between them gets wider. The trigger fills in the gap that the slide cannot bridge in the lowest note in any given overtone series. i.e.the gap between low e and pedal Bb. And the second trigger helps because the slide instill not long enough to get the low B.
I did originally talk about that, but I cut it from this video because it was getting too long. I think there's another video in my channel that talks about that, or there's another one waiting to be edited where I talk about that.
Great explanation. Thank you.
F attachment trombones are not just designed for short people or those with small arms. It helps those who have trombone, I mean trouble with playing musical passages fast. 😂😂😂😂😆😆😆 it also allows you to play 6th and 7th position quicker and more accurately than before. So it is a must for any advancing musician.
The Fundamental, or Pedal Tone, is an octave below the note played this video presentation. The presenter demonstrates the first harmonic, an octave higher..
died @ "rather crusty homemade worked bench" xD loved the vid!!
Have you ever seen or played a Superbone before?
xShadows Yes! I know you’re talking to Trent but I have played one before in my life and they are very fun. I played one the other day actually. I have various mouthpieces but it’s technically just a very large trumpet. The slide is functional and it has all 7 positions. Your non-dominate hand is the same as any other trombone besides bass+ . It has the same tone as a trombone. It’s not any different from a tenor trombone besides it has valves.
i keep wondering if a trigger on a tenor makes it to F what would happen on a superbone if you push let's say 2nd valve in 4th position slide can you use the valves as trigger's?
heartbreaker t
every valve combination is essentially a trigger. if you were to press the 2nd valve and use the slide, it would be a half step lower than Bb and play in the key of A. 4th position would be about a half step lower than normal and would have a Gb fundamental as opposed to G on a standard trombone
I have experience with preforming with a superbone but I’m not sure what instrument that is
The thing about bass trombonist is that yeah people might think they are lazy but they probably said the same thing when the added the valves to the trumpet
The example at the end of the two types of trombones playing one above the other is splendid. Thank you.
Hmm sounds similar to having a 4th valve on a euphonium? The 4th valve also dramatically increases the range of really lower register notes available, and makes some of the some lower notes better in tune, but otherwise, alternative fingering has made it easier to play certain things!
Yep, the first trigger has the same function as your 4th valve. When pressed, the first trigger mimics roughly the 6th position on the slide. On the Eupho, the 4th valve played by itself mimics the 1st and 3rd valve combo.
The second trigger on the Bass Trom is a new ball game for me, I've just started learning what it does!
It is similar. The pitch change is the same, as is the problem that your "slide positions get further apart". Of course on a purely valve instrument, you don't have the ability to alter your valve lengths on the fly, which is what compensating valves are for. Trombones don't need mechanical compensation, because the player has to use a different set of slide positions instead. However, like a non-compensating 4-valve euphonium, the slide will not allow a low B natural on the first trigger alone, and that is the primary reason second triggers were added (and why most tenors neither need nor have them, they aren't asked to play lower than low E).
another scale you can use as an example was the 2 octave Bb major. the slide only moves for regular Eb, and G. Every other note can be hit open or with a trigger.
I would be very interested to see you make a review of a Carolbrass trigger trombone. I hear them praised all the time, but have never seen a video review of one.
to me the main reason for a trigger is just so i can actually play the notes between low E and pedal Bb
Does anybody know, is we have in present the Tenor Trombones with this double-valve mechanism (Bb/F/Gb or Bb/F/G), as on Bass Trombone on this video, or standard single (Bb/F) only? And does the trombone Bb/F/Gb has a low B1 (H1) note? I know, that the original trombone Bb/F doesn't have one. Thanks!
Here's a legit question. With triggers, doesn't it allow some passages to be played as a true slur? Also, some trills would be cleaner too, right?
Well, the straight trombone already has lip slurs which, combined with slide movement, create effective slurs. The trigger does allow for slurs on the same partial that otherwise would have to be legato tongued, but you very often can eliminate the legato tongue with some simple alternate positions. As for trills, if you use a trigger for a trill written as a lip trill, it won't sound like the composer intended but could potentially be cleaner depending on what you are good at. Whether that is an issue is up to the player's opinions.
@@staritone3883
Going from C to Bb or B to Bb cannot be slurred on a tenor without a trigger.
@@cicadaboi101 Those are actually good examples of notes you CAN slur without a trigger, since you are changing partials. Just make sure your slide is well aligned and clean.
@@staritone3883
I mean low C to low Bb not middle C to high Bb.
the way trent looks into the camera whilst explaining the trumpets its horrifying
thank you so much for this video, i was so confused about this. thank you from a composer!
I play a closed b flat tenor and I love it
I have a closed wrap **TRIGGERED TROMBONE** (conn) {brand}
InsaneVoid-YT same (Bach)
I have a question, could you play a D with just the second trigger or do you have to use both to play it in 1st position
You could play it with just the second trigger, but the slide would have to be in about 5th-6th position.
Please can you review Schiller Bass Trombone?
So is pressing the trigger on a single trigger trombone the same as pressing the first trigger on the trombone with 2 triggers?
Yes
Is it possible to make trombone with additional tubes between which you can switch with trigger to change octaves to higher/lower when you reach highest/lowest note to reach higher than highest/lower than lowest?
On some level it is possible, but the resulting instrument would be so impractical you might as well just carry around a second instrument.
Dropping from b flat to f only works in the pedal tones. A b flat 2 (bottom of the staff while still on the staff) rises up to a c. Does this have anything to do with that I have a tenor with f attachment?
B&G Gaming No, that's just you. If you try to hit a low F (bottom of the stave) in first position with F attachment activated then you can hit it. It's easier to go from Bb to C, but that's not the only note you can go to :)
where do you buy the no valve trumpet?
Trent I have a closed wrap tenor trombone
I have a question, I play tenor trombone without a trigger but I really think one would be useful. So are there places where I can get a trigger trombone bell piece, so I can save money on not buying an entirely new slide?
I haven't tried it myself but the King 606 might have the same sized bore and tightening screw as a King 607. (Talk to a brass specialist at your local music store, don't make a purchase because of me). You could in theory mate any bell section to any slide section of similar bore size and it would work fine, however the amount of elbow grease involved probably wouldn't be worth it.
Do you think the double horn concept could be applied to other valved brass instruments? A trumpet at least could certainly take the extra weight. Maybe it just isn't really needed...
The double horn concept is a bit reverse to me, as the 'other' side is higher, rather than lower.
It's done so horn players have less harmonics to negotiate in the higher register. I guess the "default" length on the trombone and horn respectively are the most needed for general playing and produce the fullest sound.The extra sides are added for slightly different reasons on the trombone and horn i'd say. Thanks for making all of these fun videos and talking with so many of your subs. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Trent Hamilton I play a horn standing in F, but it can be configured on most double horns, and I know 1 or 2 people who have the horn standing in Bb, making it a more Trombone like experience. Borrowing a horn that has the valve the other way round is very confusing, making a normally decent player struggle to get the right note!
I had an old Conn compensating double, and I set it up to stand in B♭ because it sounded much better on that side of the horn. Why put all the wear and tear on your thumb if you're going to play on the B♭ side 90% of the time? I also had a single F horn available when the music called for it, but I was playing first horn and only used the single horn when we did brass quintets.
I never did get to gig with the brass quintet, as the only time they got booked, the same director had also booked the saxophone quartet at a different location at the same time. I had to bring the second horn player up to speed with about two weeks notice because I couldn't physically be at both shows, and then they decided to just keep her instead of dealing with my schedule conflicts. (Never mind that she had schedule conflicts of her own, because she was, by profession, a drummer.)
I have a question when I would play a low c on the Trigger Trombone using the Trigger it sound out of tune in 1st position but its sounds fine in 2nd
u just have to tune it
Pull the slide on the trigger out some more if you need too
I hear a lot of people say that a 4-valve tuba is beater than a 3-valve tuba but when I hear a 4-valve tuba play a solo it sounds like a singing elephant and less like a really good sounding tuba. I have a Jupiter 3/4 tuba and when I play the high register it sounds beater than the 4-valve tubas I have heard professional tuba players play. Why are they so dismissive of the 3-valve when it has a high range advantage?
I'm not a tuba expert, but I think the 4th valve is so you can get a lower range.
wwemario12345 True but then why do most 3/4 tubas get flack even if they sound good and all respect is given to the person with the 4/4 tuba? 3/4 can have good high range advantages if played by someone who has worked hard on the high register, but when it comes down to the directors of any music department they say the 3/4 does not sound good because they been told otherwise even if that player is a good player. It's time that 3/4 tubas get accepted and appreciated for their quality of reaching high resister without sounding like an elephant, but like a baritone that is played really well.
I've been playing the Bb tuba for about 7 years in the UK and I find the distinction of tuba size (3/4, 4/4, 5/4 etc.) a little odd. They're not clearly defined sizes, the fundamental length doesn't change and the bore is already given in the specification. Just a thought.
Small tubas have their advantages. Professional tuba solos are usually played on F tubas that get called '4/4' rather than a '5/4' F tuba or an Eb tuba that might be used in tutti playing (normal playing, like a symphony). There are, however, a couple of problems with your idea of using small tubas more regularly. Firstly, they cut through the texture nicely - a good feature when you're a soloist but not when you're 'just' the bottom of the brass section in a symphony and a dreadful one if the composer wants a really rich, strong bass sound. Secondly, you said yourself your 3/4 tuba sounds 'like a baritone that is played really well' - why not replace it with a baritone or euphonium, then? The tuba is designed to be a rich bass voice and is almost unrivalled in this regard but it usually bows out to the euphonium and baritone when a light sound is called for, as they can do the job better.
I love my Bb tuba and the sound it makes in the middle and lower register. I play it in a British brass band where I have the contrabass part and it has an essential presence - they don't think 'that Bb tuba playing is awesome' but they'd definitely notice something wrong if I wasn't there (my bandmaster was freaking out a little when I had to miss a concert for a business trip). The tuba can sound very rich and 'elephant-like' doesn't have to be a downside.
Anyway, now that I've gone off on my rant: your original point on 3-valve vs. 4-valve. I think I've largely addressed it above - 3-valve instruments are usually made small ('3/4') for beginners while professional instruments demand the flexibility and range of more valves. 4 valves allow you to play chromatically down to the fundamental (the pedal tone) and give you an alternate fingering for the notes usually played on 1-3 and 1-2-3 so you can play more in tune. For compensating systems (a whole other kettle of fish I can get into if you like) this is all you ever need to play in tune but for non-compensating systems (read: all tubas except British brass band tubas) having slightly flat alternatives to the first 3 valves helps play in tune in the bottom range. F tubas have between 4 and 6 valves for this purpose. Hope this helps :)
I have been thinking about learning how to play a 4 -valve tuba should I get a white plastic Tiger tuba or just get a small compact brass one with piston valves?
Set a budget, work within that. An intermediate model would be a good idea if you've already played a small 3-valve, although ask your teacher and bear in mind what's normal in your part of the world (if you're in the USA, you'd struggle to get help with a British Eb compensating model). A professional model might not be appropriate for you right now, even if you have the money. If it's a matter of just having your own instrument then a small, lightweight tuba would be fine to learn on but a plastic instrument is usually a false investment (Trent lambasted a plastic trumpet a few weeks ago). In terms of size, bear in mind, too, what you can handle - C and Bb tubas are big.
My top tip, thought, is to see if your school/county/band have an instrument you could borrow, particularly if you're still learning.
I always thought it functioned similar to the trigger on a F/Bb double horn but I could be wrong lol I do play horn but manly woodwinds aha
So the first trigger on a bass trombone allows you to play notes in 6th position in first like low C and low F, and the second trigger does the same but for notes in 7th position, and both together do both leaving 5 positions?
Trigger 1 goes to F and C, Trigger 2 is F# and C#, both make D. You end up only needing to move the slide to play A/E, Ab/Eb, G,D2 and B natural. So you can play Bb(all), F(all), F#(all), C(all), C#(All), D(except D2), E4,Eb4, G4,Ab4,A4, B4 all in first with 2 triggers. Why you would need to do that on Bass trombone is unreasonable tho
Trigger 1 with 2- position is the same as 7th
Does anyone use the F attachment above say a concert C inside of bass clef?
I think many horn players switch to their F side higher than that. Do trombonists do it too?
Personally, no. I find the timbre less appealing.
Trigger is a bad in general and increase resistance and perfection of the natural instrument. Trigger is useful for low part only. Many 1st player part don’t need this cumbersome attachment. No trigger means purer sound, intonation and much clear sound. Normal trigger are lighter and spund more responsive to clear attack.
Is it uncommon for a Bass Bone to have 1 trigger? The bass trombonist in my corps band plays one with 1 trigger
It depends on the level band. In competing bands it is rare, but in bands made of volunteers then it’s not rare at all. The second trigger does give you improved flexibility, but there’s only one note you can play on a double trigger trombone that you can’t play on a single trigger trombone, and again, if you’re not playing competition grade music then you’ll never actually come across an actual need for it.
I've heard tenor trombones with triggers called a "Tenor bass" trombone before, and found a page that shows that type of trombone having a slightly larger lower end in terms of pitch compared to a regular tenor trombone without a trigger. (Here is a link to it if you scroll down) hub.yamaha.com/six-things-you-never-knew-about-trombone/
I treat the Tenor bass trombone as its own separate type of trombone, rather than another form a tenor trombone. I was just wondering what your thoughts were on all of this, as I do find it a bit confusing.
Late reply, but I believe the tenor bass name came from when the bass trombone was in f, and because of that there were notes the bass trombone could play notes the tenor couldn’t. Tenor bass means it could play both the bass and tenor parts( I believe).
@@andpeggy6048 Ah thanks for the reply. That is interesting. 🙂
They're useful
I don't understand I have a bass trombone (and no its not a tener) that has only one trigger what kind of bass trombone is it
+purplicious_cactuse/lag Triggers are the defining point of a bass trombone. You can have a bass trombone with none, one, or two triggers.
+Trent Hamilton cool thanks!
It is still an F trigger or something different (like Eb), otherwise B-nat would be missing from your range?
Generally, in the US there are two defining characteristics of a Bass Trombone. 1) It has a relatively large bore (the diameter of the tubing usually .562 inch) 2) At least one valve and related tubing lowering the fundamental pitch from Bb to F. There may be a second valve in various configurations closing the gap in the F side from C (end of extendable hand slide length) to the Bb fundamental pedal with the slide closed. The gap being B natural (C natural to Bb). The most famous headache for the Bass Trombonist is the gliss in the Bartok "Concerto for Orchestra" of B natural up to F (first position on F trigger). There being no alternative but to use the second valve for the B natural and closing it during the gliss thereby interrupting a true smooth gliss.
I play a tenor trombone without a trigger and I was wondering, If you press the F-Attachment down can you play the f scale in the same positions as a b-flat scale without the trigger depressed (1, 6, 4, 3, 1, 4, 2, 1)?
Technically, yes. Practically, no, because those slide positions (except 1st) will all be further out on the slide, meaning any effort saved in learning the position pattern is more than offset by having to learn five new positions.
Soo...its basically like the octave key on a sax.
How do I Play 6th position on a trigger trombone??? Please help me
Depends what note, if you need to play the F you can press the trigger and play the F which is normally 6th position in first. I think that is what you mean
So is a trigger trombone just another name for F attachment/Quart valve trombone?
Yes :)
@@TrentHamilton Awesome thank you!
If F and Gb triggers are both actuated, shouldn't the instrument be in the key of Db?
Check out this video here: th-cam.com/video/9-tyoCuOVgU/w-d-xo.html
Trent Hamilton The bass trombonist in my university's jazz ensemble has triggers for F and G and if both are depressed, it still gets lowered to D.
I have a closed wrap f attachment
Same
@@nickrushworth6925 what brand do you have?
Yamaha YBL-321 Single trigger bass trombone
@@nickrushworth6925 nice
Triggers and valves on trombones are there so they can simulate a musical instrument. (snicker)
Funny you should mention that with closed-wrap trombones you won't have to sharpen it to put it in the case because I have the exact example picture you used and I have to do exactly that only with the main slide😂
But yes I realise with most this won't be the case
Haha case
triggerd
The thing you take off to oil a trigger is stuck on my trombone what do I do
Andrew Wallace grab a wrench
Aromuskos Incalti i already took it to the shop
So you're paying someone else for the safety of mind that your instrument won't end up fucked. Reasonable.
Aromuskos Incalti he did it for free
Who and where? The place near me charges $50 just to look at it.
Wait, I'm trying to understand bass trombone triggers. Both pushed make 7th position. First mimics 6th. Second D flat? Correct me if wrong.
+MrMoonNinja Not exactly. First trigger changes open Bb down to F, second changes Bb down to Gb, both together lower from Bb to low D. How the positions work out is slightly different because you're making the bell section of the instrument longer, without adjusting the length of the slide, so when you use one trigger 7 positions become 6, and when you use both triggers, your slide then only has 5 positions.
thanks for the help. I was tying to understand as I was looking into getting one.
how many triggers can a trombone have?
+Jacob Ramos Typically only one or two. There are some trombones which have three triggers, but they're designed to mirror the function of normal valves.
Oh ok. Thanks trent
Trent Hamilton So is pressing the trigger on a single trigger trombone the same as pressing the first trigger on the trombone with 2 triggers? Also they sound the same on 1st position normal ( f in a straight trombone)
Manjot Brar yes and yes, the fundamental frequency of all trombones mentioned are in Bb, the first trigger on both will drop it down to an F and the second will drop it to a Gb. I like to think of them as extra slide positions to play lower, like a non-compensating valve on a 4 valve euphonium. The first trigger acts like a 6th position and the second acts like a 5th
kevwasbored oh ok 👍 thank you
I have closed wrap 😔👌👌
That bad boy base get low with the tubas
Contrabass trombone trigger and what it does
Jackalsnipahz Oneoneseven I am definitely no expert but as far as I know, many of them do the same thing as Bass trombone triggers, just bigger😂
why have instruments in different keys if all of them can basically play the same notes..unlesss im wrong
They can't all basically play the same notes. Tenor trombones cannot play the notes between low E and pedal B♭ without a trigger, and with a single trigger they still can't play low B♮ because there is no seventh position when the trigger is in use. Also, so sane composer would ask them to play in that range when bass trombones exist, sound better, and are physically easier to play. Conversely, you dnot' play screaming trombone solos on a bass because that's just not what it was designed to do. Can it hit the notes? Maybe, but they're going to be much less well defined and much less stable in pitch. The bass is designed to play better toward the bottom of the harmonic series, 1 (fundamental) to 6, where the tenor is optimized more around the middle harmonics, 2 to 8, and is not designed with the fundamental in mind at all. You can play it, but no effort has gone into making it play in tune.
i can play low b natural with a single trigger...but yea i just remembered low E through low C with the trigger.. everyone that plays a trombone at my school can play pedal tone b flat.
i can understand why you wouldnt mention this but trigger trombones are used in marching bands so trombonists dont have to reach into 7th position while marching and potentially hitting someone in the head
the hitting people is mostly if your band is doing a parade in a block
Or having the slide slip out of your gloved hand.
I have some triggers too, but i already know what they do.
My old dog had a trigger, activated when you tried to take her bone away from her.
I play the regular trombone.
You used the 2014 intro with a January 1st, 2015 video. I’m triggered.
Are there triggers oriented a different way for left handed players
John Johnson what do you mean? There are only right handed trombones
Carson Stephens are you like gay or something you can turn the slide
FusionTech Gaming The trigger is on the right...
No. You could have modifications done for this -- the valves themselves wouldn't have to be changed but the actual touchpieces and levers would have to be re-fabricated or at least severely altered-- but as far as I know, nobody actually ships them that way from the factory.
It doesn't matter what hand you are it's played with your right hand. like you play woodwinds with your left hand on top and right on bottom
I call a valveless trombone a straight trombone.
f triggers are also known as f attachment
Hello fascinating internet corner
I play a f attachment in class
I prefer playing triggers despite playing a tenor for my whole band career
It turns them into a rifle
I owned a Holton TR181 for decades and thought that l was not so good at hitting lower triggered notes, from E-flat below the stave. That instrument was closed wrap. I had a thought and did some research into open wrap trombones which are very much more modern. I, therefore, bought a Yamaha Custom double independent with open wrap tubing. This wonderful instrument allows excellent volume at all registers across the entire range so it wasn't me that was the problem voicing the lower notes!
just use them for trills......
Matthew Lockyer actually it doesn't work that well, it sounds bad because of the time between rotating the tube makes no sound so there are holes in the trill
My dad played trombone in middle school and I'm thinking of getting him a $89 rotor yamaha trombone
Nevermind it's a scam website
There's one behind u
TUNA IS HERE one what
Billy Garvey nvm I'm imagining things
I miss my bass trombone... can I have yours? Lol
I can't give you one, but you can give me one.
Lil
Lol
Why is is there a gas can under the table
+spcsyracuse 1056 because this is my garage.
ok and i play a yamaha tenor trigger trombone
I feel triggered
And you also look left out that you can use it in the second note of the b flat scale
I wonder how his four slice toaster is doing
It’s doing great! It’s lasted a long time too.
@@TrentHamilton XD cool!
TRIGGERD wait, someone beat me to this comment?
Reading the comments, it looks like some of your viewers are trigger-happy.
triggered
You've got to figure out which one goes in which hole
When you say f I thought you said if
I can certainly tell you have a bias towards Trombones which is understandable you typically have bias with instruments you start learning from early. One thing I will say unless I haven't understood the purpose of the video, trumpets and instruments like that very rarely if ever need to change there fundamental pitch. With Trombones it's more necessary because of the slide. Trombones are an interesting instrument and I have never fully appreciated the complexities and as a composer sometimes they are a pain to write for. Triggers another matter, in the science of brass tuning, you get a contra out and really you only have 5 slide positions if you have any triggers that decreases. With normal trombones that most people can access in terms of slide positions that effect is still there and in fact this whole twiddly obsession you have is far trickier to achieve properly on a trombone. I write for brass band myself and without actually playing the trombone it often becomes tricky to write for them because something that is easy on valved instruments in terms of intervals at a decent speed become incredibly tricky for trombone. So to be honest they are just a pain to write for. I conducted a practice where I just told the trombones just to play what they found easiest because I couldn't be bothered with the amount of questions and issues they had because of what problems slides causes.
I guess that Trent was a little trigger happy. :)
You god damn feminist!
bit tryhard are we?
It's called an F Extender.
You look a little triggered...