Don't Use a Knife to Baton Firewood as a Good Test
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
- Many people split firewood with a knife as a demonstration of how sturdy the blade is. In reality, this particular test has so many variables it is impossible to evaluate blade quality using it. Like most things associated with wilderness survival, skill and the correct technique will trump fancy gear every time.
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I've built many a fire while hiking and camping, wet and dry, and I never heard of batoning before I started watching TH-cam videos.
Exactly, a lot of it is hype from knife companies. It’s kinda shady that they promote it, then put a clause in their warranty saying not to do it.
I was spliting wood with knives well before I would imagine Internet would exist ...
I have to completely agree with you. A knife is not a wood splitter. A good knife is forged hard to hold an edge, which means it's also going to be too brittle for splitting wood. Wood splitters are made at axe levels of hardness and from softer steels. And I'll add, I have lived almost my whole life in wilderness (look up my books). I spent a third of my life in the Alaskan bush. Currently, I reside in the Canadian north woods. I have never once had a remote need to baton wood for a fire. It is a completely useless practice.
This is a complete boomer mentality and wrong objectivly on many levels.
Finally somebody on youtube knows what they are talking about when it comes to batoning. Here's a quote a smart man. "Knicks and dull edges are abominations, use Knives and Hatchets for nothing but they are made for".
Horace Kephart1917.
Blind Fredy exactly.
Batoning is used for self-reliance situations and when an axe may not be available. It is also used for more precise cuts or when shaping.
Batoning has been around for a long time and is a useful technique to learn. The next time you have a chance, get out your survival knife and practice batoning.
Seahawk.Customs.Pc the only time I ever baton my knife is to make a notch in a stick...If you want smaller firewood use the fire to burn it into smaller pieces!
brian gillman I've never seen any one do that. plus say you're in Alaska at 50 below zero weather. You going to wait for the fire to burn it to smaller piece's of wood no you be dead. better stick to warm States. How long have you been doing survival skills or you're just starting out....even the best survivalists of today use knives to baton wood.
Great video. I spent my childhood camping in the mountains of Utah, learning to start fires from an early age. I honestly never had the need to baton a single piece of wood in my life. The largest pieces of wood were broken by placing the end between two trees and pushing. Then again, we were taught to only use dead/dry wood,,
The butterknife bit was cool 🤠
I carry a cleaver & often baton with it. I also carry a pocket chainsaw. I can deal effectively with wood with just these two lightweight items. The cleaver also serves as a shovel. I keep a file handy to stay sharp as the task requires.
I fully agree. look at the Fins, Norwegians right down to French farmers. they have been working and living outdoors, hunting fishing. I visited northern Canada, Cree and Ojibwa hunt and live in the forest. All of these people use thing, an axe.
Yes - an axe splits wood much better than any knife.
That's great if you have an ax. If you get lost while hiking and you have only a knife (who carries an ax to hike?) then it's useful to know how to do this .... also assuming you are carrying matches or some other firestarter.
But where are you going to find nice 2 foot logs with flat saw cut ends in the forest? If you're able to use a saw to cut the wood to good lengths, why not just use the saw to cut smaller diameter logs and burn those?
in a SHTF situation my knife better be able to batton, knots and all...its common sense that tools have multi uses, because you never know....better safe than dead
I agree, but I believe his argument is for people who do this all the time for fun not survival.
A tool doesn’t have any uses if you break it. There are a lot of people that are now calling battoning a “camp chore” instead of a last ditch survival technique if you didn’t have the foresight to bring a hatchet (also all the wood in the forest has to be wet as well otherwise you could just pick up sticks).
If you're in a survival situation and you have to baton wood with your knife, then that is what you have to do. So it should definitely be part of any test of a knife that you plan to bet your life on.
couldn't agree more with you!
Most people also don't realize that if or when you find yourself in an emergency survival scenario, you're only going to have what you have on you at the time. That is why I have an "EDC kit" that I always carry on me at all times. EDC means Every Day Carry, and mine consists of a Smith & Wesson Border Guard folder, two nylon knife sheaths that I use one yo carry my LED flashlight, and the other holds my fire kit which consists of a ferro rod, a magnesium bar, s small folding knife, and I carry a Buck 673 fixed blade that has a 4.5 to 5 inch blade...I watched a review video where a guy used the Buck 673 to chop down several medium sized trees, process fire wood, get a fire started and made a good temporary shelter...all with the one knife. My Every Day Carry items consist of these things because again, when you find yourself in a survival situation, all you will have to survive is what you have on you at the time.
The point of this video is: Batonning firewood with a knife is not a valid test of a blade. With the right technique a butter knife can be used.
*****
-- I won't argue that fact. You have to have decent gear to begin with. That is why people need to research the gear before they buy. There are some really pieces of shit gear out there. That is part of what I do...testing and letting people know what is shit, and what it is legit.
Gunslinger Survival your spot on! If all you have is your knife then you have to absolutely know that the knife is not going to fail! Yeah a hatchet or axe is best but if for weight reasons or if you just don't have an axe or hatchet you are going to have to buton with your blade. And quality does matter because i have seen many knives fail at butoning.To say buttoning is not valid is something i totally disagree with. Keep buttoning gunslinger survival!
In a SHTF situation....i'll be using my axe or my saw for processing wood.....period...NOT my knife. Now THAT is true common sense
Yup!
Jdevilist In a shtf situation you may not have such luxury of choice;)
You might be using whatever's at hand,Even a Knife-👁🗨
Ummm...yes I WILL...already have an AXE AND A SAW in my pack READY to go...i'm PREPARED!!....HOW about you Nunya???....lmao
Jdevilist I've got an Ontario SP-50 Survival Machete for my big piece and will be getting a good folding saw but my Mora Companion HD is my go to for most splitting tasks:)
It is designed for batoning and works fine IF you need to.
You can even break down rather large logs with a modest sized knife if you start from the outer edge instead of straight from the center;)
I recently watched someone torture testing the Robust HQ and found it quite amazing how rugged the design is!
The things an inexpensive Mora can take-😅
I own a Puma White Hunter and it has went through more wood than you could think and still held a good edge
If you do a lot of batonning, why don't you just get a hatchet?
Batoning is an important test in the knife world. Your knife is always on your hip. Some carry hatchets on their hips. But most carry their other tools and gear in a bag. The bag gets lost, the only thing left is the knife. It better be able to do everything! If no one tested knives, how would we have known about the Buck Hoodlum fail? 3 inch knotty maple or oak can be very stressful on even large knives. Batoning is important whether your splitting or removing small pieces, and cross cutting.
+Todd Klekotka I regularly test different knives. Batoning firewood isn't much of a test, as the butter knife demonstrated.
On some points I agree with you. Others, I share a different opinion. I do feel batoning can be a real test to prove that the knife has been heat treated properly. When reviews of the Buck Hoodlum was done, when batoning, the knife consistently broke where the notch is. Because I do go out a lot and practice woodcraft/bushcraft, hike, hunt, I want a reliable knife. I dont always take my hatchet with me. Yeah a butter knife did it, but would it baton through a small knot without failing? I like to know the knife can perform to my specifications whether its a video online or testing it out in my backyard before I ever take it out in the woods with me. I understand everyone has their opinion on knives and batoning. I prefer it over my hatchet more times than not. Thats me. But because I prefer batoning, I like to see reviews or tests that demonstrate how the knife batons. This also shows if the knife is capable of flexing or snapping, expose any weak spots in the heat treat like the Hoodlum. Some prefer it, some dont. Some value batoning as an important test or task, others do not. It all comes down to preferences and what's more comfortable and suitable for the task.
+Todd Klekotka So can I ask what knife you use? that has been "heat treated properly"? that performs to your specs? that has survived your backyard tests? I'm taking some of your comments with a grain of salt. Are you forking out cash on a new knife, then smashing it thru wood with another piece of wood in your backyard and then saying, "oh it just broke, what a piece of crap"? This is like grandpa Simpson throwing those toy soldiers on the ground and saying "look at the crap they make these days, they break the minute you step on them" .
Your site had a knife review by 'Tactical' of the Gerber BG knife. Does Gerber and/or BG ever advocate batoning wood with this knife? If not then these test "results" and the "conclusions" drawn are not valid in my opinion. Don't do a Grandpa Simpson on knives.
When I test out my knives, I first get a feel for how it carves, feather sticks, then how it performs batoning. I usually test them out on wood I gather from the woods. I usually get any solid dead fall I find.anything from birch, cottonwood, maple, and oak. My two favorite knives I use now are my Tops Condor Alert and my A.G. Russel Mark II combat Bowie. I usually play with them for a while doing that, and as long as its comfortable to use and I feel confident in it, then thats what I take out with me. But if a knife I get fails on me, its gonna be when Im beating on it when Im at home, and not in the field, especially when I need it most.
+Steve Kaposi's Adventuring & Camping School Not that I don't see where you are coming from, but in actuality, in the advertisement/information videos that Bear did for his knives(Not sure about the newest one), I think he actually said they were good for Batoning wood.
I know this is an old video now on YT, but it gives good common sense information 👍🏼
Common sense never goes out of style.
@@survivalcommonsense Lol..very true
I always look for low hanging dead branches. I find 2 trees close together and break the limbs to length by horizionaly levering. I have been camping for 30 years and never used my knife to baton a piece of firewood. If you try batoning in the Missouri Ozarks with Oak or hickory just pick up the knife pieces
If I know I'm going to process firewood, I'll take a saw or axe.
Survival Common Sense exactly !
Right on.
After I spent more than 30 night a year for 10 years camping I realized I was spending 15 nights more that most gear reviewers were per year. For example most gear editors rave about the Bear Grylsis knife. Well it has a plastic butt plate. My knifes dont. Not often but sometimes you are going to hit the back end of your knife with something and the plastic thing will break.
I never hear any of these "experts" talk about placing a piece of heavy plastic sheeting under a tent as a water barrier. (cost $1).
30 years ago I took everything I would need for a 3 week hike in the Rocky Mts National Park. At the end of the 4th day lugging everything we place a poncho on the ground and tossed out as much as we could lighting our packs by 40%. I have spent the rest of my life going all over the world on the light side. I went an entire summer with 3 bic lighter and a large box of matches in a ziplock bag.
Survival Common Sense I got a beater Estwing camp hatchet for $2 at a garage sale 5 years ago. I hit it with a wire wheel and oil and got it gleaming. I filed on a sharp edge and it works perfectly. We gota get back to practical from tactical.
uscgalpha91 well said ...get away from tactical and return to practical !
I love it
I think the title should be changed to 'Why not to use a knife to baton a log.'
If somebody wants to test the strength of a knife by batoning that's a pretty good test to prove that the knife is indeed very strong.
Like I said It's a TEST, not a realistic thing. In my humble opinion tests should be as brutal as possible for us the consumers to choose the strongest most edge retaining knife in the price range.
It isn't a good test of blade strength. That's why I used a butter knife.
Batoning logs teaches nothing about edge retention, but how yo dull a knife in a survival situation. Instead, try finding smaller logs that don't need chopping up.
It would be a better test to either baton or chop through the log on it's side. Across the grain, not with it. It's not like you're going to be able to make those neat logs ready to baton without something to cut them in the first place.
I am SOOOOOO tired of the batoning criteria. My dad would have skinned me if he caught me "abusing" a knife like that. It is a handy skill to have, but I agree that it is not the best gauge of the quality of a knife
I dont care either way. I use axes, knives, machetes and saws. When it comes to firewood, yeah I use my knife to process wood small enough to easily start a fire. Sometimes I use my hatchet. Way I figure, I dont care what others say or think about me and how I use my tools. I bought them, not someone else, so I will use whatever I please to achieve the end result. Someone says Im doing it wrong, I say shut that hole in your face!
I've never saw the need for splitting wood in the woods in general. The wood being wet is the most common bs argument I hear. The inner core isn't wet, fair enough, but it's much less stress on your blade to shave the bark off...the only part that is wet...that is unless you're using cut fire wood laying on the ground and I've never witnessed this is any woods. 😂. There's no reason whatsoever to split fire wood while camping unless you don't know how to build a fire. Look at all the videos where these idiots are batoning and they're using cut timber. If you have the tools for that you have the tools to make a fire without splitting anything...
Preaching to the choir!
You mean you’ve never seen a pre cut forest? They gotta exist somewhere because almost everyone on TH-cam makes videos in them lol.
Finally, common sense and a practical demonstration to dispel the myth. I'll baton finer pieces (
+Martin Axe The knife doesn't exist that can do all three!
Exactly! I should have written it as, "I'm not going to carry a knife that's marketed to do all three".
+Martin Axe Common sense, 100% agree!
What about the time that you don't know you're going to process wood? What about the time you may have flipped a canoe and hypothermia is already setting in by the time you reach the bank and all your gear is laying at the bottom of a river? You better hope that BG knife can pound through whatever wood you pickup because your mind isn't going to stay sharp for long. It's easy to say one technique is foolish when you haven't been in a situation that calls for it. I've been there it's not fun. In an emergency you don't get to choose if your axe floats or sinks, nor would you have the time to choose an optimal piece of wood for splitting when you're shaking so bad you can't even walk straight, let alone swing that axe. Real life doesn't let you pick where and when, you just better hope you know how to use whatever you have at your disposal to keep you from killing over.
Darren Eddings The point of the video is: Batonning wood is not a good indication of blade quality. In the scenario you mention, a survivor will do what he/she has to survive.
I disagree. I think that batonning wood with your knife indicates exactly what a knife is. Hardness, shock durability and edge retention. I think a lot of folks miss the key point of that test. If you notice in a video after someone batons wood with a knife, they usually perform standard knife practices with it afterwards. A knife to hard may break or chip. A knife to soft will bend or the edge will roll. A quality knife will do neither. The quality is tested this way.
Darren Eddings Did you watch the video all the way through?
I did and read a good bit of the comments. While I thought the butter knife splitting was pretty cool, I didn't read anyone saying why they thought batoning wasn't a good test, as well as, not saying what they thought was a good test for a knife.
I think he's just saying that you can use ANY knife to baton wood, so it's not a good way to compare different knives, any knife will work. He's not saying that you shouldn't baton wood with a knife. Not sure what point you're trying to make here...
And to think I was just batoning my butter knife through butter all these years... thanks for the tip!
Batoning wood in a survival situation is chancing loosing the most important inanimate tool you have. Learning techniques and getting into the habit of using them instead of batoning makes sure you will keep that tool safe.
The more you manage to minimise the need for batoning the better. Knives are simply not built for batoning - even those that claim they are. That’s why we developed such things as axes.
I couldn't agree more, When did the "batoning craze" start? When I am in the woods and need firewood, I find a dead tree and break off limbs and make a fire, As the fire gets bigger I burn larger chunks without splitting that I cut with a light saw. I really don't see why people expend so much effort splitting wood?
No shit...I'm so sick of "batonning" videos. ALMOST EVERY review has this in it, or the knife supposedly sucks...what about hollow grinds for skinning??? BTW, isn't that what cheer dance squads do already? I've been critiqued for not doing this in my knife vids. Please spare us all who have slight intelligence. It's a damn bandwagon for all the guys who can't use a knife for anything else.
+JOEY OWEN AlphaBladeReviews well said!
Steve Kaposi Thailand Thank you Steve.
+JOEY OWEN AlphaBladeReviews , Agree totally, a wedge can baton brilliantly but for the rest it would make a shit survival knife ..... and dry dead branches make better firewood than logs for your open fire at home ....... it is this " pick-up " survivalism that is making it all a joke...... and sadly a lot of ex-army delusionists too ....... :-) keep safe
TNPnl Thanks. You take care as well.
***** Yes sir! Butterknife Master of Survival in Mommy's house, sir! You have Mensa level IQ sir! Please sir, don't hurt me sir! I know nothing about forests & wildlife, especially knives, sir! I'm so sorry u cannot seem to do anything but baton, sir! I baton too at times sir! With cheap blades, sir! Ever heard of hardwoods &different types. A butter knife HAS NO EDGE TO PROTECT & IS JUSTLY HEAT TREATED LIKE SHIT, SO IT IS SOFT AS YOU ARE ON THE ROCKWELL, IF IT EVEN IS HEAT TREATED. ALL MIGHTY SIR!
people who baton with their knives are discounting the fact of metal fatigue. you really never know when your knife is going to break when you baton.
Good point!
Green wood always splits far easier that dry wood. But for survival splitting green wood is problematic unless you are doing it knowing you are going to dry it afterwards
Excellent video.. too many people put WAY too much thought into their knife. I own high quality and medium quality knives, serrated and plain blade and the cold hard truth is I could survive with any one of them. Proper technique and knowing your particular knives strengths and weaknesses means more than brand name or the type of steel. Find a knife that is comfortable and of decent quality. It does not have to be high end but don't buy garbage either.
Right on🤠
I carry a cleaver & often baton with it. I also carry a pocket chainsaw. I can deal effectively with wood with just these two lightweight items. The cleaver also serves as a shovel. I keep a file handy to stay sharp as the task requires.
I was going to confirm your test but the wife will not let me use one of the butter knives.
I am a knife maker, western big game hunter and all around outdoorsman and here is my take on this subject. The knife you carry should be able to be used hard, if need be in a survival situation. that includes battoning. I have posted on youtube and social media the testing for my knives, and it always includes battoning. HOWEVER, I ALWAYS make it very clear that this is not what a knife is intended to do. I dont care what anyone says, it is not. its job is to cut, and no battoning with a knife was not something that was done by people in history who used tools every day(except people of the jungles using machetes) this is the problem now, so many people want to take thier knife and beat its 4"blade through a 5" piece of oak 40 times and see if it breaks and then expect it to hold a hair whittling edge. so then companies started making knives WAY to thick makinh them not good at being a knife! In a survival situation, you use whatever you have to do whatever you need to live. all of the blades I use and build will do that. with that said, I have started 1000's of fires in every condition you can think of and not once did I need to split anything bigger than thumbsize sticks one time with my hand, to get to dry wood and make shavings. 95% of the time in weather that is fair, you don't even need your knife to make a fire. great video and channel!
Thanks for the kind words. I am amazed how batonning firewood has become a major focus for designers, and buyers. I have started several thousand fires with traditional flint and steel, and really, the only way I use my knife is to whittle feather sticks and to shred and reduce kindling/tinder to usable sizes.
I have NEVER heard anyone comment about testing a knife by batonning with it. I have just seen people demonstrating batonning. Like your statement use common snese, where there is really no such thing as common sense but that is another discussion, I hae been in situations where there was no dry wood. On day hikes I do not carry and axe. But I could use a cheap saw, cohlands, to cut a piece of dead standing and then split it. There was also no small dry stuff. Yes I have split 6 inche oak using a knife and carved wedges but again that was not to test the knife but more out of need. Thanks for a good video.
I think batoning is a very good test for the knife. I test all my fixed blades before taking them out in the field. Part of that test is batoning small wood. If anything went wrong during the production of the knife and it has a weak spot in the blade it's better to find out at home where you can replace it than in the field when you are already depending on it.
I don't depend on just the reputation of the knife. I test the knife I'm having before taking it out in the bush so I know my knife is up to the job even if it's not intended for that job.
I don't think batoning is any test of a knife at all.
It seems we agree to disagree ;) I usually bring two knives with different grinds and different purpose. One is intended for batoning and the more heavy stuff but I will still test them both before taking them out. I have seen video's of really expensive knives break whilst batoning. Also knives that were supposed to never break. Like the Becker BK2. Every knife that has a flaw in the metal can break. So I put the knives under a little stress at home before I take them out. Even the knife not intended for batoning I will baton because you can always loose the other knife and be left with just the one knife.
I would just take an ax or hatchet if I needed to split wood. Use the tool designed for the job.
I thought we were discussing batoning firewood.
Yes we are. There is also firewood and the need for it in the jungle and in the desert. The need for a fire is not limited to your neck of the woods. People all over the world make fires.
Right tool for the job
Batoning accelerates wear and tear and might introduce fractures in the steel
I never understood the purpose of batoning wood with a knife either. If the purpose is for kindling, show me a forest that doesn't have thousands of little dry sticks laying around and then maybe I'd use my knife in such a way.
I'm with you on that.
Ive always understood that the purpose of batoning was if most the wood was wet you would split a large piece of wood to get to the dry wood on the inside.
I would use a hatchet or axe for that. However, it would make sense to do it with a knife if you were in a confined space that doesn't allow you the room to swing an axe.
Country Prepper same here. I'd rather use a axe or a hatchet for this and save my blade edge for other tasks.:)
But where are you going to find nice 2 foot logs with flat saw cut ends in the forest? If you're able to use a saw to cut the wood to good lengths, why not just use the saw to cut smaller diameter logs and burn those?
Batoning is a viable technique, it have its limitations and benefits, like axe and everything else.
been hell trying to get a good edge on my butterknife
Here is a good stropping video: th-cam.com/video/tLjBF7klRYY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=FnW52wFefoVajU-d
I believe that certain tools should be used for certain jobs. Axes and hatchet can be used for combat but in reality they have been traditionally used to chop wood. Traditionally knives were used up close kills and skinning and gutting game. Sure a knife can be used for chopping wood but I would rather use an axe to chop wood.
I believe the batonning test is valued when is combined by checking the sharpness of the knife AFTER BATONNING, the shape of the blade after loooots of batonning, and condition of the handle after hard use of batonning.
In this video we just see that a kitcen knife can split wood, but after lots of splitting will it be able to hold its edge to chop, slice, curve, peeling food or wood? like the bear grylls will do? for sure cannot perform at all for wood curving in first place but the bushcraft knife will do it all even after extensive use for batonning.
Also this knife is solid steel including the handle which makes it rather heavy for its size, what would have happened if use to have a wooden, bone, horn, or synthetic handle after many times used for batonning?
There are times specially in wet conditions that getting the dry inner part of a log is important for fire starting and not all people wants to carry an axe or hatchet with them all the time, so batonning with the bushcraft knife may be useful and necessary at times.
Under this way of thinking I believe batonning has a value as testing a bushcraft knife in contrast with a kitchen knife you will never carry it with you for bushcrafting purposes.
If steak knife is thick enough for splitting wood like the one in the video cannot curve wood at all, if thin and sharp enough to slice perfectly food will deform, snap or chip, at the first hit for batonning or at the first try for hardwood curving or stick feathering etc.
So to my oppinion there no point to prove that a steak knife can split wood as long you cannot curve wood after or even before batonning.
But there is a point to test two different bushcraft knives, how well they retain their edge afrer hard use for batonning, check them for chips at the blade, for blade deforming, for tip snapping, for a play at their handles, etc.
In this way for me batonning test has a value.
My friend few years ago he bought a cheap "supposed to be" bushcraft knife, which really looked cool, ...during batonning test at the first hit the tip of the blade snapped and three chips appeard along the blade!!!!!
He was supposed to test the knife in the woods, thanks to batonning test he never took it with him outside his back yard where the test took place.
a crap ton of batoning through the flat-sawn portion of hardwoods like oak and even maple give a good test of edge retention. Im talkin batoning the knife through the wood as you would if the tree was still upright, living planted in the ground- you'd axe it from the sides. If you baton oak in half like that instead of cutting down the quarter-sawn aspects running down the grain, it can stress a cutting edge pretty well and serves as a good heavy duty cutting test
what is the knife underneath the Gerber in the beginning?
Putting a butter knife in my kit sos I can save my blade.
🤣 ... “Survival Butter-Knife”
I kept picturing someone proudly displaying the butter-knife that saved their life, when they were lost in the woods. You had me laughing so hard, my sides are hurting.
Well, batonning firewood with a knife is a joke...
have you used the cold steel master hunter for batoning or any hard use,i have used mine a bit for small wood splitting but nothing to hard on it,thanks
Somebody smart a long-ass time ago figured that when you secure a thick, heavy blade onto a stick, it makes working with wood much easier. Now chair-rambos are buying 6mm (1/4") thick "knives" because they chop well and can baton logs.
I think chopping wood with a knife is a fad, like choils, serrated edges and thick knife blades.
Innovations aren't necessarily bad because we don't like them or because we don't see the point in them or because we prefer to do things the "old-fashioned" way. They're not necessarily good either, but I've always believed they're at least worth considering.
Cryptonymicus I agree with your point, except for the fact that making a knife blade thick is not an innovative idea never before considered.
wojtekimbier
I was really just addressing the suggestion that batoning wood with a knife is a fad. Sometimes fads are good. Sometimes a fad is good because it inspires us to find new and better ways to do things.
It reminds me of people saying that the music young people like is crap. Every generation says this about the music younger people like. Elvis Presley was an abomination. The Beatles were an abomination. Heavy metal was an abomination. Rap is an abomination. I mean, at some point you have to stop, if you're a thinking person, and wonder why it is that the new thing is always an abomination.
The ancient Romans used to say that young people were rude and spoiled and would never amount to anything. So what else is new?
Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
I only split wood in campgrounds that require you to purchase their firewood. In the backcountry nature will provide. I do always carry a knife but honestly while camping it is the least used tool i carry.
Agreed, you have to know the type, grain, and dryness of the wood for that to be a relevant objective test, but if someone can pound a blade through the knots of a 7" fresh white oak log without damage that would be a keeper. I would think any 1/4" thick high quality steel blade 8-12" in length would do just fine for that task, but it would be easier if it was not a flat grind, lots of experienced guys seem to like BK9 for batoning wood, thick and very tough steel and almost ideally shaped for that IMHO.
+Enigma Cipher Every knife design has to compromise somewhere. A scandi grind batons better than a flat grind, but overall, I find the flat grind to be more useful.
Damn! What's the brand of that butterknife??? Going straight into my INCH bag.
Good question. Where can i ger that strong silver knife?
I've built hundreds of fires in the bush and have never had to baton a piece of wood. You get tinder/ki doing and a few logs and if your smart you will be prepared and have a lighter instead of a ferro rod
I never head of batoning wood until I started watching TH-cam. If you have a saw to cut the firewood into rounds, why couldn't you use that same saw to cut smaller pieces?
Try cutting a reasonable amount as a test, and then tell me how it goes
+Jesse VanLoo I think the point was proven.
The post was about batonning firewood with a knife as a test of blade quality. It was not about axes.
Batoning wood is great for people that can not gather fire wood.....
Yup they must not have twigs where they live lol
I guess trees and forest grow different where they are at..... in fantasy land...
Lol fancy land that's funny
I thought it was done to get to the dry center of wet wood to start a fire. You can gather all the twigs you like, but if they are wet, they are wet. If you get a log and baton it, the center may be dry enough for you to make your own dry kindling.
I try to not get wood out of mud holes myself..... I base my statement on 55 years of camping...like actual going out in the wild...not my back yard....NOTE :.I AM NOT A BIG TIME SURVIVALIST OR BUSH CRAFTER..... and the last several thousands of years....of people build fires all over the world with our batoning.... I am just amazed...how man ever survive with out a RAMBO knife !
Great video. I can however think of one scenario in which you might want to baton and that would be when you wanted to split damp wood to get some dry kindling. That's just something I've heard in videos and read on forums though. I wonder if you have a view on this?
Personally I'd be looking to stomp wood propped on a rock or snap it between two close trees or something.
The point of the video was to show that batonning firewood is not a good test of a knife blade. During an emergency, you do whatever you have to to survive. If that includes batonning a piece of wet firewood, so be it.
Just carve away the wet spots without beating on the tool on bring an axe.
Have to wonder how many of those BG Knives there are out there. I've got both versions of his fixed blade survival knife a deadly pocketknife that was total junk and failed cutting a zippy tie and put hole in my finger that took 6 stitches to close and the prang machete that has crack in the blade. They must have sold a lot of those knives.
Gerber did sell a lot of those knives. Too bad they were junk. I like the design of the BG survival knife, but the components were cheap.
Problem is, most people buy a good knife for survival. And one of the advantages of having that good knife is being able to baton with it and not worrying about it breaking. That's why people do that test.
With straight grained wood and the right technique (as demonstrated) any knife can be used for batonning firewood. It shouldn't cause any damage.
Its also a problem when % 90 of those people buying "survival" knives wouldn't know how to trap a animal skin it then cook it without getting sick in the process
Its become a tactical prepper edc gear check review coolness instead of being actually informative for when someone actually encounters a survival situation ....which is hardly ever in most people's lives
What if there was a log that was 8 inch thick full of knots and you split it straight down the center with a knife?
Might cause damage to the knife.
I enjoyed watching your video and I loved the butter knife. You made good points, and so has some others in the comments. My tests will change over time as I master new skills, but with all the junk that is sold and the marketing as you mentioned how are we to trust what we buy? Is it not the right thing for those who test to put a product through extreme use? We see this all the time with all the factory recalls from large outo, only lives had to be lost for flaws to be changed. Learning skills is very important and so is testing the gear manufacturers advertise as survival as I will never trust a manufacturer advertisements when it comes down to my life and the tools I have chosen to take in the field. As I master new skill sets I won't the gear I can trust to go over and beyond what it is designed as life has taught us it doesn't care how prepared or not prepared we are stuff happens just as you shown a butter knife can be used beyond its intended design to perform a task out side of the box.
That is a misrepresentation, or at least misunderstanding of the test of the utility value of a blade.
The general test is not about "firewood" in specific.
The test is intended to show if the blade is sufficient
for cutting wood in the absence of a hatchet or axe etc.
Of course, there will be those who are a bit naïve, and who suppose that wilderness
"survival" will never required a need to cut small trees for brush in an efficient manner.
Obviously, most of our pocket knives are a useful survival tool to have. However, pocket knives cannot efficiently be used to cut small trees, whereas a survival / hunting knife will have sufficient heft or weight to provide some stout poles for shelter and other necessary purposes.
So people can complain or criticize the "batonning" of wood as much as they like.
It does not alter the necessity in wilderness survival to do more with a knife blade than
to cut thin materials using simple hand pressure.
Bruce Bain yeah or just don’t be short sighted and bring a hatchet/axe.
the thing is a knife that can't baton is useless. so yes batoning with a knife doesn't make it an awesome survival knife, but the lack of ability to do so disqualifies it. it's just sort of a minimum requirement of set of several more.
Somebody ran out of ways to test a blade and thought batoning firewood would impress people. Maybe it does...
Sweet! I actually do keep a cheapie butter knife with my gear (which usually is used for prying, digging a rock out from under a tent, whathaveyou). Never in a million years would I have thought to baton firewood with it! Can't wait to try it, I refuse to use my good knives, and you have just saved me (and my back) from a lot of scrounging the ground for smaller tinder. Thank you, excellent video as always, sir!
Batoning wood is greatly overrated. It's all in selecting the right piece of wood and knowing the technique. I only baton wood with a knife to demonstrate how to. Thanks for watching!
what was the knife that you were using it looked like a cold steel srk but the labeling was different
sticksamurai The black handled knife was a Cold Steel Master Hunter.
"Buy a good knife!" OK, done that. (Cold Steel Trail Master San Mai III - is that good enough? I think it is!)
Batoning has it's place and time. given the options available to you when it's necessary. The batoning done during a knife review test the hardness of the material and insures it's not too brittle to be of use in that manner. Any knife so hard that it's brittle when used to baton is not a good survival knife. A skinning knife can be much more brittle and would not be used for batoning. It's a much safer way to split wood than using a hatchet. Hatchets are prone to bouncing away from the wood if struck at a wrong angle but batoning places the knife against the wood before it's struck.
Not really. I very rarely ever baton firewood. Seems like a good way to screw up a knife.
Got a amazon link for that butter knife?
Try this: www.amazon.com/New-Star-Foodservice-58802-Stainless/dp/B00IFQVE88?ie=UTF8&keywords=butter%20knife&qid=1465265821&ref_=sr_1_9&s=home-garden&sr=1-9
Survival Common Sense Is that one good for zombies too?
Of course. You don't see any around, do you?
I have to question why anyone needs to baton with a knife at all. Every tree has branches that get progressively smaller, providing you your kindling. Splitting logs is for the homestead and you're going to have an axe there.
The purpose of batoning is to aid with split wood fires. The practice of utilizing a split wood fire is to achieve fire in rain or to allow very wet wood to burn. As far as damage to your blade, you will cause none with this technique and the propper wood selection.
+Ready Forums It has become a bit of a fad in the "bushcraft community" to baton wood with your knife. If you ever want to cut or chop wood then you take a small axe or hatchet. The final excuse will be, "what about emergence etc" A medical emergency will end your camping trip and maybe not being able to start a fire is another. Start trekking home, or atleast towards civilisation and rescue. Surely most people are a day or two's hike away from some form of rescue. Even if I could afford some great 250-300 dollar knife, I'm not going to smash it thru wood with another piece of wood. People need to think about these issues before blindly following the flock and thinking they need all these "bushcraft skills" to be able to enjoy the outdoors
I'm with you Steve. I've cut enough rained-on wood to know that you don't have to baton it to get do dry wood for a fire. Just shave the outer layer off and you're into dry wood within millimeters if it's actually dry.
Batoning is just plain stupid you can ruin your knife and injure yourself same thing as chopping down a freaking tree with a knife
Love it
Derrick Bohn I bet you do.
Say Heah, Nice to see you again, I recently had a knife modified to be my 5" survival knife, It spans a little more than a 4" Bushcraft knife, So I had a Battle Horse Attitude Slightly Curved and the Drop Point Lowered with a High Scandi Grind, Vexed for added edge strength. I know I should safely baton a 3/16" thick blade if properly tempered and my B H Attitude is Tempered by Peter's Technology a top shelf company, Since I used the BK-2 as a yardstick, It's very similar to the weight and every bit as robust, But the most important thing was the thin apex that makes this knife a slicer compared to my BK-2. I could team it with my Khukuri or my 2Hawks Warbeast Tomahawk which recently that's what I teamed it with, The knife preformed flawlessly for a pry bar that works wood great, Check it out on Google Plus just search Paulie 4X. Tell me what you think.
Sounds nice!
the reason the butter knife works is because it is soft.....not hardened like all the BS ....break me knives out there
Its the test because it is so often the case that if you dont get a fire going you die, so its gotta do it
Very interesting and timely video in this day and age of the quest to find a superior and indestructible knife. In partial fun I say this, but I agree that one does what is necessary in an emergency, but to risk hurting yourself, particularly you hands and possibly breaking your knife is unwise. Despite the hatred for "celebrity named" knives, I think most of them are decent, no better or worse than any other. And people forget, companies endorse their and market their own names expecting to wow us with their place among the immortal and god-like knife makers. :)
Technique and skill can never be eliminated from successful execution of a task no matter what tool or tools are being used.
In the first 30 seconds or so of this video, your voice reminds me of the educational videos they made us watch back in middle school lol. Very nice video sir.
+k81law Well, I hope this was an educational video, but I also hope nobody made you watch it!
This is the first time I have seen any of your videos on TH-cam and I subscribed. About time, a little common sense. I do not get this obsession with split wood in the woods. How did the Natives ever make it without 5/32" full tang survival knife? ROFLMAO
Been saying this for years and it still feels like almost nobody listens.
Also all knife tests, while interesting, are so subjective as to be almost useless, consensus is a better gauge of what does and doesn't work much of the time.
I agree with another commenter, I'm sick of batonning vids also. Along with the "90° spine", "strike a ferro rod ", "ranger bands", & "paracord" nonsense. It seems like those 5 things are all these so called "bushcrafters can talk about.
Some of those topics do get real predictable.
Those topics are also real predictable.
This isn't a "test" of a knife. This is a way to get more function out of the tool. A properly built knife should be able to handle this without being damaged. This is not a "parlor trick" I use this technique all the time, it lightens my load so that I don't have to carry a full hatchet. And yes, that butter knife and cheapy BG knife will baton through cured wood with a clear grain, but what if you don't have cured wood. I'd pay money to see you pull that on uncured black gum. Odds are the handle will fly all to pieces.
No bet. I set up the ideal situation for batoning firewood to prove a point. I think black gum would destroy the BG.
here is how i chose my survival knife. i stabbed a fallen tree as hard as i could then booted the handle hard the knife didnt brake or bend, then i chopped hard oak, the knife didnt dull that much and a ceramic rod brought it back to life after that i used the back of the blade as a hammer on tent stakes it didnt damage, my go to survival knife / pry bar /hammer /skinner is the schrade schf 9 i have 2 of them one i keep at work the other rides shotgun in my fron seat all the time the one in my truck has skinned about 40 deer chopped down quite a few trees makes fire tinder and batons like crazy caution to all internet heros if you dont have man hands wear gloves the skin on your hand will peel apart before you loose grip and that includes a sweaty handle a wet handle and a bloody handle, the cutting edge will discolor over time with heavy use but it will never weaken
I get the point of your video but I actually appreciate it when people baton wood in their videos. I want to know if that certain knife is capable. I look to see how the knife handles. Does it flex? Does it chip? Is the handle sufficient? I don't assume a knife is good because it can baton, nor do I assume that people who make such videos do. Batoning is a fundemental part of bushcraft, and the best way to prove that a knife can do it is by actually filming it. I think the confusion here is the size of wood being used. The larger stuff should be split with an axe. I think people just do it to show how strong a knife is. However, really batoning actually consist of small stuff. Something that can be broke down for fire or to make a set of sticks for a dead fall, etc. To break wood down like that it is much more difficult if you are useing an axe.
I think it just might be possible for people to find ANYTHING to argue about... Remember, there is no 'normal' way of doing anything. To each their own. Just try and be humble. I'm actually finding myself rather happy that I left my butter knife in my pack! 😉
I baton wood cuz I want to. If I were lost in the woods for days with my knife I would baton only if I had to which night not be often or at all. Maybe on wet wood. Ill always have my knife. Usually don't have an axe.
Interesting, but in a true survival situation, who is going to have perfectly dry and prepped fire wood?
+trigsim The point is: Batonning firewood with a knife is not a good indication of blade quality.
+Survival Common Sense Perhaps, but it's still something that should be shown. Since it isn't a good test what is a "good" test?
trigsim ... Freshly Cut Green Wood us ideal. In a survival situation, your 98% going to deal with Green Woods, or Freshly downed trees. Finding Dry Dead wood can be rare depending where you're at...
Look at Alone tv series. Its a Cold Rainforest. Its always wet. You need to process that wood to get to the dry inner core... Batoning a Large knife is safer in the long run. Steady Controlled swings is key. With Axes accidents happen too often honestly. Handles break, swings miss and hit your self far too often.
If you can't baton with a "Survival Knife" you need to buy a better knife. I am sure Mary Kate (Season 2 Alone) wishes she had just batoned the kindling instead of using an axe.
LOL, yeah keep on doing videos with that crappy Walmart Bear Grylls knife.
The real purpose of batonning is to show the toughness of a knife blade.
Yes, for the most part, most people would never need to baton, but it's nice to have. Kind of like why people buy cars that can do 180 mph, I mean it can get up there but most people never do it.
so I should not value a knife that survives the most brutal of tasks? it's a review of durability correct. so logically pushing the knife to the brink or to the point of failure is a very valid test. In fact this day in age there are lots of great knifes that Excell at bushcrafting AND batoning wood. So in a durability test to leave that out is just weak. for craps sake if a $12 mora 511 can baton wood...... any knife I use better be able to do the same tasks. this is even more true when great knifes will baton through wood and be great at other normal knife tasks all under 60 bucks. Sorry any knife that can't baton isn't worth a crap if a butter knife can do it.
just my 2 cent. also who caries an axe while hiking when a simple knife can do the task.
obviously there is a place for an axe.
Batoning offers nothing but dull knives in a survival situation. Save the blade, pick up smaller wood.
Rusty Gunn 7 of course....... but its nice to know you can. Also you can sharpen a knife with a rock soooo, not buying that whole dulling assertion.
It would be a better test to either baton or chop through the log on it's side. Across the grain, not with it. It's not like you're going to be able to make those neat logs ready to baton without something to cut them in the first place.
Get a gransfors bruks sfa it is awesome.
If my knife is poorly heat treated and brittle I will through it away.....My knives must be able to be used this way.....A brittle ...super HARD knife can and will break like glass.......This is still a good test for me........Although I am not cutting pre split.....chain saw cut wood........I am going to use and abuse my knives............Proper draw after the quench.....heat treat.......Does your knife have this.........I wasn't there........maybe they did it maybe they slapped it together and sold it to you.........test your knives in this way.......or put your head in the sand......you will never know until it breaks and pisses you off..........then you can try to get your money back from China.......Small joke....very small
YES!!! Finally some Common Sense.
Just about any knife, with the right wood and technique, would work for batoning. It's a highly over-rated survival activity.
I absolutely love this video !
I also find it hilarious when some idiot spends money on a brand new perfectly good knife then hammers it deap into a tree then presumes to bang on it with a wooden club until it breaks then says (wow i wasn't expecting that ...this knife is a fail) ....i would love to know what exactly half these people are expecting or what exactly do they think a hardened peice of steel is supposed to do lol
Common sense people... common sense
Batoning wood using a high quality survival knife is a stupid act. It will damage the knife internally and one day the knife will not withstand batoning when you really need it in a survival situation. If you cannot carry a small axe, carry a heavy duty thick knife or even a cheap $10 Chinese junk imitations. Save the good knife for cutting and emergency only batoning.
I agree!
Of course it's better to use an axe, saw, or wedge. I'd only use my knife if I was without an axe, or if it was back at camp and I needed a fire for some reason (and there were no dry sticks around). Best all-purpose knife I ever had was a bread knife I got in cooking school. lol. I used it for everything from removing brush to cutting dry wall and it just worked. I never did use it for bread, though. I assume it would have been magical, but I had already tossed it in my toolbox.
never been a fan of using a blade for a baton when I carry my ruck. that being said. it is a good technique to practice. as for the wood and grain. if the suns going down and I'm fubar. I'm not looking for a perfect piece of wood.
Good video
Obviously, I don't think much of the batoning ballyhoo. I hope I proved that batoning doesn't prove anything about blade quality.
Sometimes the celebrity-endorsed blades are worth the inflated prices....but often time theyre not. I s'pose the trick is knowing what a good knife is, and how much youre willing to pay for the endorsement. If ocer-spending for a celebrity signature is your thing, go for it! Me, I'd rather get a good solid dependable plain blade....but that's just me, I guess.
He hit the butter.knife way harder
But, it worked! No?
Hey look! It's School of Self Reliance but minus all the angry whining about batoning! Very informative video 5/5
Thanks!
Say heah, I use a Butter Knife to baton with in the bush, It's a big though, Well it looks like a butter knife, It's my Bark River Golok heh heh heh. ,, ,, ,,
Yeah bla bla bla... There's plenty of large knifes for harder work than you think.
buter knif :D pawer
You ney sayers are the less inteligent people I have been talking about. I use my knife to baton when I need to control the cut that I can't do with a hachet or ax. I'am prepared when I go to the woods so if I need a fire I make sure I take an ax or hachet. So if I do test a knife by batoning at least I know it will handle it when I need it. DON'T CUT YER FINGER.