Jodorowsky's Dune from 2013 is such a great and engaging documentary. Yeah, I think Jodorowsky's version of Dune would have been way weirder and possibly worse then Lynch's version from 1984, but I think the documentary is great in that we see what ideas he had at the time and the actors he would of had in the film. Fantastic documentary up there with Grizzly Man. Also, congrats on 10,000 subscribers 🎉
Yeah, Jodorowsky is a great example of how the story behind the scenes is way better than the story itself. In my teens I had a sort of infatuation with what could have been had he gotten the reins but looking at it from later on.. I'm glad he didn't. His art is weird and tippy, I guess, but it all feels like I need to enjoy psilocybin a bit too much to properly enjoy it.
my favorite thing to come from that is Jodorowsky's "Meta Barons" comics a truly EPIC / Mythic space opera scifi story. I actually love that story as much as Dune.
I've read all of the Frank Herbert Dune books, but not the posthumous ones written by his son. As far as I'm concerned, that means I've read all the Dune books.
For the longest time I've viewed Dune as Herbert intended - a warning of messiah. But recently I've started to look at it as a question - if your life was Paul's (as in you're caught in the gears of fate) would you move forward and seize power? Would that be moral? Inevitable even? I've really found new appreciation for the Dune Universe.
Video recommendation - A Canticle for Liebowitz (1959) Written by a bomber radioman who was traumatized by his experience. The book describes 1800 years of history after a nuclear war through the perspective of Catholic monks. A major theme is the tragic nature of power and state formation "Forever building Edens and kicking them apart in berserk fury, because something isn't quite the same." Been devouring your videos. You're clearly a sharp and well read guy. Whether you've read the book or not, would love to hear your take on it. It also has a quasi-complete sequel, published after the author's death. It's... different...
Great book. I have a half-finished outline about Canticle for Liebowitz open on my desktop at this very moment. It's a mess right now, but it's definitely coming.
I've been subscribed for a few weeks but I've joined a handful of channels when they were only starting out. It feels good to engage with them see them grow.
I have mixed feelings about that edit. There are some things they did really well, and I'm glad they restored Jessica's "history will call us wives" line at the end. But there other choices, many of them involving the Smithee cut intro material, that did not work for me the way they used it.
“We have more in common with the peons than the kings” Exactly, and that’s why I’m writing the story of a 1917-style space revolution against a dune-style space feudal autocracy. I remember reading dune and being sort of miffed that the ordinary people are only ever in the background as idiot rubes or cannon fodder. Certainly the modern imperial nostalgia, like we see in the UK or russia, prove that there are those among us even still whose greatest dream is to have some noble’s feet to kiss.
I just discovered your content and I just wanted to say that it’s the most genius mix of history and commentary on science fiction that I’ve ever watched. You deserve so many more subscribers and recognition!
Dune is indeed more even that modern myth - it truly has entrenched and integrated itself within our collective cultural lexicon at a very fundamental level, and it has done so in its broader manifestation, with the original books and each of the live action adaptations all having their own freight of influence on our culture and their own particular fans and adherents. While it is true that Dune's cultural influence is not entirely unparalleled (a case could be made that Asimov's Foundation series is comparably significant), it is still clearly the case that, without Dune, the modern pop culture (and particularly sci fi) landscape would be unrecognisable. Without Dune there would be no Star Wars, no Babylon 5, no Warhammer 40,000, no Wheel of Time (or at least in each case the version of those franchises that would exist without Dune would be radically different) - the list goes on. An argument can be made that Herbert has been as influential on the development of sci fi as a genre as Tolkien was on the fantasy genre, and it goes beyond styles and trends in fiction writing. What might be called the greater Dune story - books and all live action versions taken together - has influenced the ideological framework of a great many of its readers and viewers very significantly, most obviously with regard to its core themes of the interaction between ecology and culture and the perils inherent in charismatic leadership and so the caution one should always feel when approaching anyone viewed as a 'hero', especially in the arena of politics and power.
My niche complaint: WTF is up with those stubby, katana looking things? The way the fights are described in the novel makes it fairly clear they use rapiers.
I think we should find a different word other than "Feudalism" when we are talking about these Sci-Fi Industrial Aristocratic systems of government. They are heavily inspired by the Victorian Era, especially the British and the German Empire. With Germany, we have the Kaiser on top, even above Parliament, and with the role of appointing the Prime Minister. And where the Army and the Navy are entirely separate entities that have nothing to do with each other, while the Kaiser is in total control of both. And then, the whole of Germany was filled with princelings all over the place. And still having powerful semi-autonomous Kings, such as the Kingdom of Bavaria. Which had its own army and its own everything. Bavaria really shouldn't even have joined Germany. They had far more in common with the Austrian Empire, both with the Danube and also in Religion. Yet the Bavarian King made up his mind and submitted himself to Wilhelm I. But while this is going on, you also have enormous industrial corporations, working tightly together with local governments for coordination and development. Fun fact, the pan-German railroad network was already being built before the German Empire unified. This is not Feudalism. We need another term. Another name. "Techno-Feudalism" sounds like a music genre. And still carries the problem of having nothing to do with Feudal contracts. "Aristo-Industrialism"? "Neo-Kaiserism"? Probably too exotic. And when Germany formed as the German Empire with a very powerful Emperor on top, it was the most educated major country on the planet. Having implemented universal education generations before the British did the same. And Germany was the first modern welfare state. All under the Kaiser. While having a prince, Otto von Bismarck as the Kaiser's Prime Minister. And having the whole full and proper pomp and splendor of royal courts brought to the modern industrial are. Not Feudalism. "Industrial Monarchism?" In other places around Europe. Sweden had a system of unpaid farm labor all the way until 1945. Which was a major part of the Swedish population. And for Great Britain. Although the monarch did not have much power, the Aristocratic system still lingered. Where titles would be given to great men. And where the traditions of the royal splendor still endured. And even though the King / Emperor of Britain did not have any real power, the system was still run by the Aristocratic families who had transitioned from land ownership to becoming industrialists. Admiral of the Fleet Louis Francis Albert Victor Nicholas Mountbatten, 1st Earl Mountbatten of Burma. Or normally just called Lord Mountbatten. He was the uncle of Prince Philip, the husband of Elizabeth II. He joined the navy in WW1, and became Supreme Allied Commander, South East Asia Command, in WW2. And he ruled India for a while after the war. Fun fact: He was supposed to have married Grand Duchess Maria Nikolaevna, the daughter of Tsar Nicholas II. But then the Revolution happened. And Winston Churchill too, he was also essentially a Prince. And he was appointed by his Party and by the King to lead the Coalition Government during WW2. He was not elected. He was appointed by a couple elites in the Party and the King. So, once more, a Churchill would have total command of the British Military, just like his ancestor John Churchill, who led the Confederacy of England, Holland, and Prussia, against France. Even when you look at the United States during the Victorian Era. In the North, there was the Industrial Aristocratic Elites, with their banks and their factories. While in the South there was the Manorial Elite, with their plantations and distrust of central authority. Throw some Sci-Fi flair on it, and you got a Dune thing going on. Still, it is not Feudalism. Using Feudalism when describing Dune and Monarchy of the 1800s-1900s, would be like calling the United States of today Jeffersonian. Or a Jeffersonian Democracy. Or a Jeffersonian Agrarian State. Or turn it, and call America a New England Calvinist Republic. The term has become a charged one. The moment one uses it, people get the images of dirty and abused peasants with some monopolyman aristocrat throwing filth at them for fun and games. The moment it is used, it deceives. It's like calling someone or something "Puritan". It carries the derogatory meaning with it. Something something power of words.
My short answer is "you're right" and at present I don't know what the right terminology would be yet. Maybe these excursions into crudely named "space feudalism" are part of the road to better taxonomy for what we see in science fiction and perhaps what we're just starting to see in the world around us. My long answer will have to wait, dependent on whether or not flights are back on schedule after yesterday's Crowdstrike debacle.
I've read the original book, saw the Lynch movie in the theater and a few times since (original and Alan Smithee cuts), and I saw the first of the recent two movies (can't seem to work up enough interest to see the rest). Tried the miniseries but found it disappointing for some reason I don't recall. I wouldn't say I actually like Dune very much, but it is interesting. I always remember Mark Frost, several years ago in an interview, said that what is often misunderstood about Lynch is that people think he's subversive but that he's really the opposite. He doesn't intend to undermine things small town life in Blue Velvet or Twin's Peak, but he actually loves those places and likes to vilify forces that threaten them, which is why his villains are so hilariously grotesque, like Dick Tracy villains. Might also explain how he's able to seem so earnest and sentimental in stuff like The Elephant Man or The Straight Story.
I read all of the Dune saga each year. Other books as well, plenty of other books, in fact I'm always reading, but those are my constant companions. I did attempt his sons fanfic dune books, but my brain rebelled and I couldn't carry on. My tolerance for bad fiction is pretty low. Movie wise I prefer the Lynch Dune movie, but the Spice Diver edit of same. The SF channel Dune series based on the first three books are all great. The first three books were originally meant to be one book but got split up.
Congrats on the 10k. Also, yeah, I agree with you about Jodorowsky. There have been many retellings of Dune, but what he wanted to do was anything but Dune.
Congratulations on your channels. Richly deserved. I hope it grows more. As a side note, when you mentioned harkkonen homosexuality, it reminded me that Herbert had a fractious relationship with one of his sons who came out as gay in the 70s and was instrumental in forming some gay lib organization who’s name escapes me. I think he might of disowned him but not sure. I know there was a lot of bad blood. Herbert had a complex, messy personal life in general. Not hugely important but I thought kind of interesting.
My first introduction to Dune was the Lynch one. Although I am a much bigger sci-fi fan than my older brother, I have him to thank for giving me access to some great movies from a young age. I think all the screen versions have great elements to them but the '84 version is still my favourite. It might seem silly but one of the elements I like are the worms. Because they were puppeteered I think they had personality. It haven't read much since my early 20's but recently started listening to audiobooks. I've done the first Dune, and two of the Brian Herbert prequels. Because I'm a bit of a lore whore I've looked up more than what I've read or watched. (Spoilers) There are some great elements but what I dislike about it is that each house or organisation is homogenised or compartmentalised in terms of culture or function. I also don't like that Spice is such a McGuffin, it literally does everything. It allows for space travel, it elongates life, it's a narcotic, and literally a spice for food. The Bene Gesserit have been breeding only daughters for generations but are totally obsessed with a perfect male child, I've never been a fan of prophecy unless it is actual time travel. It's like we've lied about this prophecy to pacify the natives, oh wait, the prophecy is actually true. Egg on my face. Dune probably fits more into the science fantasy bracket than science fiction. People keep giving me trouble for calling Star Wars Sci-fi.
As you look through the vast catalog of Sci-Fi to discuss, could you go more into depth with the themes of Babylon 5 over its five seasons? I am rewatching from start to finish (currently on season 4) and I think there are some thematic nuggets in there to discuss that are consistent with what you have covered to date. Good luck on the continued growth, glad to see you past 10k.
There's definitely a lot to dig into with B5. I'll keep cutting away at it now that I have a better sense of what youtube's copyright check will allow. It can be a little sensitive about B5 clips.
I assume the title of the final chapter of your video, "Dune Abides", is a subtle reference to the classic sci-fi novel "Earth Abides". If so, nicely done.
"...Look at what they accomplished with no weapons and just 11 guys who didn’t even speak English! And that proves that sometimes great ideas are actually horrible ideas" -Samhad Hyd-uin
I'm new to the channel but I absolutely love it! Suggestion for next video. Isaac asimovs the foundation. Unless you've already done a video and I just haven't found it in your archives yet.
Part of me wants to read the Dune books, but my first experience of Dune was the most recent movies. Im both worried A. I'll spoil myself for future films and B. I'm worried the book will be so vastly different it'll change my mental perception of Dune in general.
I've never understood why someone, Jodorowski for example, would want to make a Dune movie that had almost nothing to do with Dune. Others have done this with various IP's as well. If you don't really want to make a Dune movie (or whatever IP), then why buy the rights and say you're making one?
There are three obvious options, and lots of less obvious ones. 1) The creator of the new thing fundamentally doesn't understand the existing work. 2) They don't care about the work they're using, but as long as using the name gets them attention it has done its job. 3) They actually hate the original thing, and they want $OFFICIAL_NEW_THING to neuter the original's influence. And, of course, mixing and matching happens. Note also that it can be difficult to tell the difference between the first and third options, and both of those options gain the benefits of option two for finding funding and an audience.
Great video as always. I am reading through my library again. early Heinlein for the moment then Herbert's Dune books to follow. Great. I did enjoy the House... trilogy prequels but I don't know what happened with the Butlerian Jihad. I found that book entirely unreadable and didn't bother with the other two.
I got into audiobooks during lockdown. I've done the first Dune, House Atredies and the first of the Bulterian Jihand books. I found the Atredies book boring. The Bulterian one was actually okay, but Brian doesn't have the style of his father.
Hunt down the Dune Encyclopedia, it can be found online. Its proper Dune. Brian of course had to renounce it to make his money-grab books. If his ideas came from James's notes (cough) then they weren't as good.
The Dune Saga is extremely hard to put to film... Because it's a Sci-Fi story with Social, Environmental, and deep Philosophical themes. You almost have to take a collage of the 1984 film (Smithee Cut), the Sci-Fi Channel mini-series, and the current Dune movies to get an actual view of that universe. As each, in their own right, get a part of the book right but then go off tangentially into other places. As others have said, congrats on 10k subscribers. Plus love the background scenery; as I've always wanted to live in one of the Big Sky states.
Another great video. Interesting observation about the power of words. Have you seen Wim Wenders' film 'Until the End of the World'? It makes a similar observation about images.
Suggestion for another Dune video: The Islamic elements of all three screen adaptations. After all, what’s most surprising is that the pre 9/11 miniseries depicts the Fremem most like an IRL Muslim country. You can even hear the call to prayer in some of the miniseries city scenes. 2022 Dune is by contrast really careful to take on some of the aesthetic trappings of Islam while dancing around calling them Zensunni space Muslims. It’s a film that is really afraid of being Islamophoblic, Islamophilic or saying anything about Islam or the War in Afghanistan that had been officially lost just a year before.
I think hitchhikers guide to the galaxy can be viewed the same way. A story retold over a variety of medium’s with slight changes to suit those mediums.
Congrats to 10k subscribers. Also, I would like to say that I hated how Villeneuve portrays the Harkonnen in his movies. They're the ''bad guys'', so he turned them into a Wish version of the Cenobites that live in BDSM dungeons and to hammer it down to the "dumb mainstream audience", he even turned their planet in black & white. In the book, they're portrayed as uber-decadent, predatory capitalists. They do monstrous things but in the end of the day, they're still human and I think, that makes them more scary than being portrayed as genetic freaks. Generally speaking, I dislike the Villeneuve adaptation for their boring, brutalist art style & dumping down many of the concepts from the books.
Although Dune has homophobia in it, the Baron's degeneracy is due to him prefering teen boys not just being attracted to males, and he is also implied to have abused his nephew.
@@feralhistorianThe Harkonnens are so depraved in every way, it's easy to miss one of the many specifically horrifying details about them. But thanks for owning the omission. Great video, congratulations on the numbers, and I am pleased to be one of your subscribers. This is my new favorite take on Dune.
I might be a heretical abomination but I think I prefer the 2000 SciFi Channel’s version. While the DV version is grittier and closer to my imagined visuals of the story, the SciFi version is much closer to the original book. I still can’t wrap my head around how DV changed Chani’s story so radically.
I don’t think that’s true, and I don’t think Feral’s point was correct. The new baron harkonnen is designed for spectacle and memorability, and the nazi aesthetic is simply overused
![[กูเพิ่งซื้อมึงปิดหนี] 20 นาที ผมรีวิวเกมที่แย่ที่สุดในโลก CONCORD](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XhC-3q3Ii7I/mqdefault.jpg)
I respect how you specified the exact number of subscribers, makes it feel like each one of us genuinely matters.
Normally I'd say this channel is underrated, but I don't think it could ever be as good as it is if it had millions of views.
If it ever gets that big, I'll be doing the same thing but in 4K with better sound.
dune took on a life of its own with nobody truly controlling it. just like Paul's conquest of the know universe.
Hermann Göring as Baron harkonnen is actually fitting
Jodorowsky's Dune from 2013 is such a great and engaging documentary. Yeah, I think Jodorowsky's version of Dune would have been way weirder and possibly worse then Lynch's version from 1984, but I think the documentary is great in that we see what ideas he had at the time and the actors he would of had in the film. Fantastic documentary up there with Grizzly Man. Also, congrats on 10,000 subscribers 🎉
Yeah, Jodorowsky is a great example of how the story behind the scenes is way better than the story itself. In my teens I had a sort of infatuation with what could have been had he gotten the reins but looking at it from later on.. I'm glad he didn't. His art is weird and tippy, I guess, but it all feels like I need to enjoy psilocybin a bit too much to properly enjoy it.
And he's made a decent living by crying out every so often about how he could've done it better haha
my favorite thing to come from that is Jodorowsky's "Meta Barons" comics a truly EPIC / Mythic space opera scifi story. I actually love that story as much as Dune.
@@gawkthimm6030I just wanted to bring up Metabarons. It's fascinating to read as a Dune fan as it feels like a mirror universe reflection of Dune
Jodorowsky described his creative process being like "r*ping your wife". Hard pass on his work.
Thank you.
I thought I was the only one who pictured ze Baron as a levitating Göring.
I've read all of the Frank Herbert Dune books, but not the posthumous ones written by his son.
As far as I'm concerned, that means I've read all the Dune books.
His son writes solid pulp. Not bad but not his father. The nice touch is that he does not seem to be trying to be his father.
A great look at cultural transmission. I still prefer John Harrison's Dune miniseries from 200. Also, congratulations on 10,000+ subscribers.
For the longest time I've viewed Dune as Herbert intended - a warning of messiah. But recently I've started to look at it as a question - if your life was Paul's (as in you're caught in the gears of fate) would you move forward and seize power? Would that be moral? Inevitable even? I've really found new appreciation for the Dune Universe.
Congrats from the UK on 10 K subscribers. Thoroughly deserved and a really excellent channel
Kanly. Kanly never changes.
Video recommendation - A Canticle for Liebowitz (1959)
Written by a bomber radioman who was traumatized by his experience. The book describes 1800 years of history after a nuclear war through the perspective of Catholic monks. A major theme is the tragic nature of power and state formation "Forever building Edens and kicking them apart in berserk fury, because something isn't quite the same."
Been devouring your videos. You're clearly a sharp and well read guy. Whether you've read the book or not, would love to hear your take on it.
It also has a quasi-complete sequel, published after the author's death. It's... different...
Great book. I have a half-finished outline about Canticle for Liebowitz open on my desktop at this very moment. It's a mess right now, but it's definitely coming.
Thrilled to hear it 🙂
Just discovered your channel and been watching all your videos like crazy .... convinced you are the best one doing it right now 👊🏻
I’ve been subscribed since 300. So happy to see my favorite historian reach this milestone
I've been subscribed for a few weeks but I've joined a handful of channels when they were only starting out. It feels good to engage with them see them grow.
@@jamesabernethy7896 Especially when it's such quality videos
For Dune 1984, you should take a look at the Spicediver fanedit. By far THE definitive cut.
I have mixed feelings about that edit. There are some things they did really well, and I'm glad they restored Jessica's "history will call us wives" line at the end. But there other choices, many of them involving the Smithee cut intro material, that did not work for me the way they used it.
“We have more in common with the peons than the kings”
Exactly, and that’s why I’m writing the story of a 1917-style space revolution against a dune-style space feudal autocracy. I remember reading dune and being sort of miffed that the ordinary people are only ever in the background as idiot rubes or cannon fodder. Certainly the modern imperial nostalgia, like we see in the UK or russia, prove that there are those among us even still whose greatest dream is to have some noble’s feet to kiss.
Congrats on the 10K, man!
You deserve it for your original, brilliant content. Onward to 100K!
I just discovered your content and I just wanted to say that it’s the most genius mix of history and commentary on science fiction that I’ve ever watched. You deserve so many more subscribers and recognition!
Dune is indeed more even that modern myth - it truly has entrenched and integrated itself within our collective cultural lexicon at a very fundamental level, and it has done so in its broader manifestation, with the original books and each of the live action adaptations all having their own freight of influence on our culture and their own particular fans and adherents. While it is true that Dune's cultural influence is not entirely unparalleled (a case could be made that Asimov's Foundation series is comparably significant), it is still clearly the case that, without Dune, the modern pop culture (and particularly sci fi) landscape would be unrecognisable. Without Dune there would be no Star Wars, no Babylon 5, no Warhammer 40,000, no Wheel of Time (or at least in each case the version of those franchises that would exist without Dune would be radically different) - the list goes on. An argument can be made that Herbert has been as influential on the development of sci fi as a genre as Tolkien was on the fantasy genre, and it goes beyond styles and trends in fiction writing. What might be called the greater Dune story - books and all live action versions taken together - has influenced the ideological framework of a great many of its readers and viewers very significantly, most obviously with regard to its core themes of the interaction between ecology and culture and the perils inherent in charismatic leadership and so the caution one should always feel when approaching anyone viewed as a 'hero', especially in the arena of politics and power.
When the scene of the rain coming down, my first thought was, "Ok, how do I stop it?" ;-)
10 years ago the idea that Dune would outlive Star Wars would have seemed quite odd.
Kudos on the 10k subs will you do a Q/A live stream?
My niche complaint: WTF is up with those stubby, katana looking things? The way the fights are described in the novel makes it fairly clear they use rapiers.
I think we should find a different word other than "Feudalism" when we are talking about these Sci-Fi Industrial Aristocratic systems of government.
They are heavily inspired by the Victorian Era, especially the British and the German Empire.
With Germany, we have the Kaiser on top, even above Parliament, and with the role of appointing the Prime Minister.
And where the Army and the Navy are entirely separate entities that have nothing to do with each other, while the Kaiser is in total control of both.
And then, the whole of Germany was filled with princelings all over the place. And still having powerful semi-autonomous Kings, such as the Kingdom of Bavaria. Which had its own army and its own everything.
Bavaria really shouldn't even have joined Germany. They had far more in common with the Austrian Empire, both with the Danube and also in Religion.
Yet the Bavarian King made up his mind and submitted himself to Wilhelm I.
But while this is going on, you also have enormous industrial corporations, working tightly together with local governments for coordination and development.
Fun fact, the pan-German railroad network was already being built before the German Empire unified.
This is not Feudalism. We need another term. Another name.
"Techno-Feudalism" sounds like a music genre. And still carries the problem of having nothing to do with Feudal contracts.
"Aristo-Industrialism"? "Neo-Kaiserism"?
Probably too exotic.
And when Germany formed as the German Empire with a very powerful Emperor on top, it was the most educated major country on the planet. Having implemented universal education generations before the British did the same. And Germany was the first modern welfare state.
All under the Kaiser.
While having a prince, Otto von Bismarck as the Kaiser's Prime Minister.
And having the whole full and proper pomp and splendor of royal courts brought to the modern industrial are.
Not Feudalism.
"Industrial Monarchism?"
In other places around Europe.
Sweden had a system of unpaid farm labor all the way until 1945. Which was a major part of the Swedish population.
And for Great Britain. Although the monarch did not have much power, the Aristocratic system still lingered. Where titles would be given to great men. And where the traditions of the royal splendor still endured.
And even though the King / Emperor of Britain did not have any real power, the system was still run by the Aristocratic families who had transitioned from land ownership to becoming industrialists.
Admiral of the Fleet Louis Francis Albert Victor Nicholas Mountbatten, 1st Earl Mountbatten of Burma.
Or normally just called Lord Mountbatten.
He was the uncle of Prince Philip, the husband of Elizabeth II.
He joined the navy in WW1, and became Supreme Allied Commander, South East Asia Command, in WW2.
And he ruled India for a while after the war.
Fun fact: He was supposed to have married Grand Duchess Maria Nikolaevna, the daughter of Tsar Nicholas II. But then the Revolution happened.
And Winston Churchill too, he was also essentially a Prince. And he was appointed by his Party and by the King to lead the Coalition Government during WW2. He was not elected. He was appointed by a couple elites in the Party and the King.
So, once more, a Churchill would have total command of the British Military, just like his ancestor John Churchill, who led the Confederacy of England, Holland, and Prussia, against France.
Even when you look at the United States during the Victorian Era. In the North, there was the Industrial Aristocratic Elites, with their banks and their factories. While in the South there was the Manorial Elite, with their plantations and distrust of central authority.
Throw some Sci-Fi flair on it, and you got a Dune thing going on.
Still, it is not Feudalism.
Using Feudalism when describing Dune and Monarchy of the 1800s-1900s, would be like calling the United States of today Jeffersonian. Or a Jeffersonian Democracy. Or a Jeffersonian Agrarian State.
Or turn it, and call America a New England Calvinist Republic.
The term has become a charged one. The moment one uses it, people get the images of dirty and abused peasants with some monopolyman aristocrat throwing filth at them for fun and games.
The moment it is used, it deceives.
It's like calling someone or something "Puritan". It carries the derogatory meaning with it.
Something something power of words.
My short answer is "you're right" and at present I don't know what the right terminology would be yet. Maybe these excursions into crudely named "space feudalism" are part of the road to better taxonomy for what we see in science fiction and perhaps what we're just starting to see in the world around us.
My long answer will have to wait, dependent on whether or not flights are back on schedule after yesterday's Crowdstrike debacle.
I've read the original book, saw the Lynch movie in the theater and a few times since (original and Alan Smithee cuts), and I saw the first of the recent two movies (can't seem to work up enough interest to see the rest). Tried the miniseries but found it disappointing for some reason I don't recall. I wouldn't say I actually like Dune very much, but it is interesting.
I always remember Mark Frost, several years ago in an interview, said that what is often misunderstood about Lynch is that people think he's subversive but that he's really the opposite. He doesn't intend to undermine things small town life in Blue Velvet or Twin's Peak, but he actually loves those places and likes to vilify forces that threaten them, which is why his villains are so hilariously grotesque, like Dick Tracy villains. Might also explain how he's able to seem so earnest and sentimental in stuff like The Elephant Man or The Straight Story.
I read all of the Dune saga each year. Other books as well, plenty of other books, in fact I'm always reading, but those are my constant companions.
I did attempt his sons fanfic dune books, but my brain rebelled and I couldn't carry on. My tolerance for bad fiction is pretty low.
Movie wise I prefer the Lynch Dune movie, but the Spice Diver edit of same. The SF channel Dune series based on the first three books are all great. The first three books were originally meant to be one book but got split up.
Congrats on the 10k. Also, yeah, I agree with you about Jodorowsky. There have been many retellings of Dune, but what he wanted to do was anything but Dune.
Congratulations on your channels. Richly deserved. I hope it grows more.
As a side note, when you mentioned harkkonen homosexuality, it reminded me that Herbert had a fractious relationship with one of his sons who came out as gay in the 70s and was instrumental in forming some gay lib organization who’s name escapes me.
I think he might of disowned him but not sure. I know there was a lot of bad blood.
Herbert had a complex, messy personal life in general. Not hugely important but I thought kind of interesting.
My first introduction to Dune was the Lynch one. Although I am a much bigger sci-fi fan than my older brother, I have him to thank for giving me access to some great movies from a young age. I think all the screen versions have great elements to them but the '84 version is still my favourite. It might seem silly but one of the elements I like are the worms. Because they were puppeteered I think they had personality.
It haven't read much since my early 20's but recently started listening to audiobooks. I've done the first Dune, and two of the Brian Herbert prequels. Because I'm a bit of a lore whore I've looked up more than what I've read or watched.
(Spoilers) There are some great elements but what I dislike about it is that each house or organisation is homogenised or compartmentalised in terms of culture or function. I also don't like that Spice is such a McGuffin, it literally does everything. It allows for space travel, it elongates life, it's a narcotic, and literally a spice for food. The Bene Gesserit have been breeding only daughters for generations but are totally obsessed with a perfect male child, I've never been a fan of prophecy unless it is actual time travel. It's like we've lied about this prophecy to pacify the natives, oh wait, the prophecy is actually true. Egg on my face. Dune probably fits more into the science fantasy bracket than science fiction. People keep giving me trouble for calling Star Wars Sci-fi.
I am far to your left politically, but I genuinely appreciate your videos. They actually challenge my perspective and give me new ones.
As you look through the vast catalog of Sci-Fi to discuss, could you go more into depth with the themes of Babylon 5 over its five seasons? I am rewatching from start to finish (currently on season 4) and I think there are some thematic nuggets in there to discuss that are consistent with what you have covered to date. Good luck on the continued growth, glad to see you past 10k.
There's definitely a lot to dig into with B5. I'll keep cutting away at it now that I have a better sense of what youtube's copyright check will allow. It can be a little sensitive about B5 clips.
I assume the title of the final chapter of your video, "Dune Abides", is a subtle reference to the classic sci-fi novel "Earth Abides". If so, nicely done.
I'm gonna come back around to Earth Abides one of these days. It's been a long time since I first read it.
Congrats on the 10,191 man!
It has been my experience that most people have seen the movie but not read the book.
"...Look at what they accomplished with no weapons and just 11 guys who didn’t even speak English! And that proves that sometimes great ideas are actually horrible ideas"
-Samhad Hyd-uin
Congratulations! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
SoDak tourism should be cutting you a check. Your setting makes me wanna hike the Black Hills.
Congrats on the subscriber numbers.
Nice cephlapod t shirt btw...
I'm new to the channel but I absolutely love it!
Suggestion for next video. Isaac asimovs the foundation. Unless you've already done a video and I just haven't found it in your archives yet.
Words are weapons sharper than knives _INXS
And now it's in my head . . .
Part of me wants to read the Dune books, but my first experience of Dune was the most recent movies. Im both worried A. I'll spoil myself for future films and B. I'm worried the book will be so vastly different it'll change my mental perception of Dune in general.
I've never understood why someone, Jodorowski for example, would want to make a Dune movie that had almost nothing to do with Dune. Others have done this with various IP's as well. If you don't really want to make a Dune movie (or whatever IP), then why buy the rights and say you're making one?
There are three obvious options, and lots of less obvious ones.
1) The creator of the new thing fundamentally doesn't understand the existing work.
2) They don't care about the work they're using, but as long as using the name gets them attention it has done its job.
3) They actually hate the original thing, and they want $OFFICIAL_NEW_THING to neuter the original's influence.
And, of course, mixing and matching happens. Note also that it can be difficult to tell the difference between the first and third options, and both of those options gain the benefits of option two for finding funding and an audience.
The Sleeper must awaken.
This video contains my poltical quote of the decade(so far)
Great video as always. I am reading through my library again. early Heinlein for the moment then Herbert's Dune books to follow. Great. I did enjoy the House... trilogy prequels but I don't know what happened with the Butlerian Jihad. I found that book entirely unreadable and didn't bother with the other two.
I couldn't read the Brian Herbert collaborations either.
Dune ends with Chapter House, unfortunately.
I got into audiobooks during lockdown. I've done the first Dune, House Atredies and the first of the Bulterian Jihand books. I found the Atredies book boring. The Bulterian one was actually okay, but Brian doesn't have the style of his father.
Hunt down the Dune Encyclopedia, it can be found online. Its proper Dune.
Brian of course had to renounce it to make his money-grab books. If his ideas came from James's notes (cough) then they weren't as good.
The Dune Saga is extremely hard to put to film... Because it's a Sci-Fi story with Social, Environmental, and deep Philosophical themes.
You almost have to take a collage of the 1984 film (Smithee Cut), the Sci-Fi Channel mini-series, and the current Dune movies to get an actual view of that universe.
As each, in their own right, get a part of the book right but then go off tangentially into other places.
As others have said, congrats on 10k subscribers. Plus love the background scenery; as I've always wanted to live in one of the Big Sky states.
Your videos are so good man
Another great video. Interesting observation about the power of words. Have you seen Wim Wenders' film 'Until the End of the World'? It makes a similar observation about images.
I've read the original six books. Plus a few of the other things. The Frank stuff is all pretty good-great, the post Frank stuff ranges wildly.
Suggestion for another Dune video: The Islamic elements of all three screen adaptations.
After all, what’s most surprising is that the pre 9/11 miniseries depicts the Fremem most like an IRL Muslim country. You can even hear the call to prayer in some of the miniseries city scenes.
2022 Dune is by contrast really careful to take on some of the aesthetic trappings of Islam while dancing around calling them Zensunni space Muslims. It’s a film that is really afraid of being Islamophoblic, Islamophilic or saying anything about Islam or the War in Afghanistan that had been officially lost just a year before.
I think hitchhikers guide to the galaxy can be viewed the same way. A story retold over a variety of medium’s with slight changes to suit those mediums.
Congrats to 10k subscribers.
Also, I would like to say that I hated how Villeneuve portrays the Harkonnen in his movies.
They're the ''bad guys'', so he turned them into a Wish version of the Cenobites that live in BDSM dungeons and to hammer it down to the "dumb mainstream audience", he even turned their planet in black & white. In the book, they're portrayed as uber-decadent, predatory capitalists.
They do monstrous things but in the end of the day, they're still human and I think, that makes them more scary than being portrayed as genetic freaks.
Generally speaking, I dislike the Villeneuve adaptation for their boring, brutalist art style & dumping down many of the concepts from the books.
Dang! Congrats on 10k subscribers!
Sincerest congratulations. Discovered you a few weeks ago. Keep it up.
I'm reasonably new too. It really is a great channel, he's original and has a great gift for storytelling.
Yahya al shuhada!
I will never relent to saying "Im dressed like Santa" or whatever they yelled in the new movie.
Good video
Although Dune has homophobia in it, the Baron's degeneracy is due to him prefering teen boys not just being attracted to males, and he is also implied to have abused his nephew.
Good point and a serious omission on my part.
@@feralhistorianThe Harkonnens are so depraved in every way, it's easy to miss one of the many specifically horrifying details about them. But thanks for owning the omission. Great video, congratulations on the numbers, and I am pleased to be one of your subscribers. This is my new favorite take on Dune.
Algorithm is the mind killer
I might be a heretical abomination but I think I prefer the 2000 SciFi Channel’s version. While the DV version is grittier and closer to my imagined visuals of the story, the SciFi version is much closer to the original book. I still can’t wrap my head around how DV changed Chani’s story so radically.
I also had a similar mental image of the baron
Our modern morally degenerate world is so evil, compared to even 60 years ago, that it’s hard to portray an evil character. Huh.
Sometimes I think our planet is Geidi Prime and we are all Harkonnens.
It's more out in the open or brazen now. Any evil you can think of isn't new. Humans have been terrible to each other pretty much since the beginning.
Gee I wonder what this guy means by degenerate?
I don’t think that’s true, and I don’t think Feral’s point was correct. The new baron harkonnen is designed for spectacle and memorability, and the nazi aesthetic is simply overused