Experimenting is cool. Sinds long i want to do the same but with a small motor that i still have to find. The shaft of my angle grinnder has too much play in it.
I can't make any claim to the predictable accuracy (or not). It may be poor. But one day it may just be enough to trim a small amount of a hardened surface or sleeve. Cheers
@Rustinox, maybe you are telling me in a gentle way that angle grinders are not accurate enough for this. As other comments have come in they have pointed me in that direction, so I learn from the experiment :-)
Very useful and weighed buying a shaper over a surface grinder for a couple of year. Shaper won out, and a Klopp 450 now sets in the shop ready to be full restored & put to good use. I too before buying it, had future thoughts about attaching my TheMac tool post grinder to a radial arm saw or shaper. Great video, and you sir have made my day,,,Really like your concept,,,Thx for sharing,,Bear in TX. Lower 48. Will eight months flew by and our shaper is not finished, but you lastest Aug 2022 video made me revisit this one. Time for Emma's # - roughcut2022 drawing close, and this graind / shaper has give me an ides form my project to show,,, Thx once again for mentioning Sammie in that last video, she is missed for sure. Bear
Hi Bear, I had a quick look at your Klopp arriving. Nice. I am always on the lookout for shaper add-ons. I have some ideas yet ...... hopefully in future videos when I get the right bits together. Cheers
Innovative idea, I've seen a grinding attachment on a rather large Planer many years ago, but surface finish looked great, the CBN wheels are difficult to dress. Thanks for sharing.
Good idea there, I have the shaper and the grinder so will pop it on the list of projects. Am deep into a drill press at the moment one of the problems being a bent and twisted quill. Thanks for sharing. Steve
I think it may have had a large electric drill chucked direct on the quill as there were no pulleys or motor with it. I tried to straighten the quill but without success so will have to make a new one. It takes a morse no 2 taper.
Nice solution to a mutual problem. Have you thought of the same approach to attached a hack saw? Benefits of collecting the dust produced by the diamond wheel is in Mechinery’s Handbook 1951 edition. There is suggests suspending the dust in water and separate out the diamond dust to use for a finer finish. A hacksaw in the shaper could make the lapping plates to use the diamond dust on.
Hi Robert, I must be getting slow these days because I had not thought of using a shaper as a machine hacksaw but I'm sure if I did not have the trusty Rapidor I would have to try it. :-)
@@HaxbyShedThere is always a place for the "chip off the block" old donkey in the stable. Maybe a shaper can expand the cutting options such as performed by that of a metal bandsaw? If an Abrafile was used instead of a hacksaw blade it could act as a coping saw as well? All that said, I must confess to finding the gentle sound of a Rapidor somehow relaxing.
Very interesting setup! I'm attempting to do something similar with an old T&C grinder. One suggestion: may want to add some rubber sheeting/guards to keep dust away from the precision slides of the Elliott.
Hi Daniel, I was overcome that it worked at all so did not think about abrasive dust but I saw it on the video afterwards. Yes I would have to cover up next time.
7:30 - Where did you find a surface grinder for 500-600 pounds? Last time I checked, to get a quality surface grinder, it costs $20-$50K. What you just built is comparable to the pro grade surface grinder. Thanks for the explanation, would be nice to show the surface finish accuracy using a dial gauge.
Hi SP, I was probably thinking of some clapped out bit of kit from a home workshop for £600. My solution is rough and ready but often I find that 'near enough' is good enough when you just want to trim a bit off something hard but be more accurate than hand grinding. In another video I trim a hardened parting tool holder to fit my toolpost where the absolute dimension was not important. In that case I used a carborundum wheel and of course there was a bit of taper as the wheel wore but it was manageable over a short distance (maybe 4 inches) for that application. This was the video th-cam.com/video/pKItOC9HWKA/w-d-xo.html Cheers
@@HaxbyShed I did some research, since I only work in precision applications, surface grinder needs to be carefully chosen to get micron to sub-micron flatness accuracy on parts. I read many people were buying quality old used surface grinders for $500 and rebuild it, however it is a great risk since surface grinders are the machines which requires strict observations if the ways, chuck, spindle and etc are working precisely and are accurate. In 99% of the time the used surface grinders are out of tolerance and people end up buying mint or new surface grinders to get expected results on finishes. It seems you just need a surface grinder for no precision applications. Thanks for the reply.
excellent thinking! ill relay what I know of the subject seen as I have a surface grinder(a low end one its an eagle) so taking more than 1 thou at a time would be unusual for me but can be done with flood coolant, the metal heats up and expands locally especially in stainless because it cant conduct away the heat,I've no experience with that wheel you have except to say its probably for very hard materials only, the grinding wheel having a more pour surface tends to remove more metal with less heat, honestly I seem to use a bout a 46 grit green wheel for most of my stuff that's hardened tool steel I dress my wheels after about 12 minutes of grinding, its probably one of my favorite tools and no its not very useful but what the hell ha ha! dont rule out a mill, they are great,so great I bought 3 harrison mills, keep up the work,all the evidence points to you being quite smart, that in itself is a bit like a surface grinder ha ha
Hi Anthony, I really appreciate the advice. I set out on this with just an explorer attitude and no experience. Three Harrison mills - that's greedy. If I got a mill it may be something small - desktop CNC or something. Cheers
Hi Jose, my 'shaper grinder' was just a rough rig because I do not have a toolpost grinder and the jaws are only for my welding positioner chuck (so do not have to be perfect). All grind stones will wear. Stone will wear most. I used diamond but experts tell me that CBN is better on steel. It's all a matter of cost and what the job is. Cheers
Cool project. I remember seeing this done on a shaper by another before. Definitely lots of potential in a setup like this. Is there a project coming up to use this on?
Craig on this one I'm using the 'build and they will come principle'. It will never be a serious surface grinder but it might just be enough to trim a hardened bush or something.
Hi Stephen, a couple of weeks ago I picked up an Eclipse 10in x 5in magnetic vice at the local Autojumble and I'm making a video about servicing that and making brackets to fit it to the shaper. So yes, it's coming soon. :-)
Hi HS I've just dropped on to you, great video on how to think outside the box, just up my street, i've sub'd you for future viewing. Regards Kev (Mr F's W)
Hi Kev, thanks for the comment. It's simple but effective for small jobs not requiring super high precision. Needs a bit of coolant squirted on when in use. Cheers.
I have a precision tool grinder made by wadkin, I was tempted to make it into a surface grinder but then realised the table moving would have to be done manually, shame really because the head motor has two spindles for coarse and fine wheels
Hi Wadkinrestorations, to say my setup is a "surface grinder" is a bit of a stretch but it's fine for some basic grinding. I've got a job to do on it soon and I will make a video. My shaper table advances at 4thou / 0.1mm per stroke minimum. I had a quick look at your channel and you have some smart machines. To be honest I had not heard of Wadkin but I've since done a bit of googling on them. Cheers
@@HaxbyShed wadkin were around from 1897 to the 90's. They mainly did woodworking machines but did do some high end milling machines and stuff for the aircraft industry. They also did a huge drilling machine for working on big plate steel. I'm finding myself drawn to metalwork. I recently got a lovely lorch screw cutting lathe and a nice little BGA jig borer.
I hope that you have checked the rated speed of the wheel against that of the grinder. Angle grinders usually rotate very quickly; much more than diamond wheels do.
Hi Michael, Thanks for the question. My angle grinder spins at 10,000 rpm. I checked the wheel and no max rpm is stated, so I checked my ebay purchase history and likewise no max rpm stated. So I Googled for max rpm on similar 4in (100mm) 75% resin bonded diamond edge wheels from some reputable companies and nothing jumped out on rpm limits - the rpm references are generally about calculating the right rpm to get a particular surface feet per minute (m/min). But after a lot of hunting I found just one max rpm stated for a similar but larger 5in/125mm wheel on Amazon as 8000 rpm. I guess for a 4in wheel the max rpm would be higher, and then some safety margin. Maybe I won't stand in front of it..... Cheers
You are missing the purpuse of the surface grinder. The biggest problem is the angle grinder bearing, it is not high precision even on the lose side to tolerate the high rpm and temp diviation. Diamond wheel are not ment to cut mild steel it loads up quickly. On my surface grinder the max I cut at once is 0.1mm and when finishing only getting 0.01 mm cuts the lowest graduation is 0.001 mm. if you want to get flat surfaces the play has to be less then the smallest cut. Cheers
Hi Logan880121, thanks for explaining. I have not used a surface grinder myself so it was just "let's try it and see what it can do". I take the point about mild steel and so I will avoid that in future. But still for £30 I have a very basic capability now to maybe trim a hardened bush or a sleeve, albeit with limited or unpredictable accuracy. Cheers.
@@HaxbyShed If you make a 30 mm shaft with plain bearings and 300mm apart. Balance a grinding wheel for steel you will get much better flatness. Almost your toolpost drill but bigger. Cheers
Hi John, I do not claim that it was a unique idea but truthfully I had not seen it before. I will be using it soon for a job and I will be making a video about that. I think it will be useful for some people. Regards
Necessity is the mother of invention, if I had a shaper in my home workshop I would certainly copy your great idea.
Harold, thank you.
Kill two birds with one shot.
Experimenting is cool. Sinds long i want to do the same but with a small motor that i still have to find. The shaft of my angle grinnder has too much play in it.
I can't make any claim to the predictable accuracy (or not). It may be poor. But one day it may just be enough to trim a small amount of a hardened surface or sleeve. Cheers
@Rustinox, maybe you are telling me in a gentle way that angle grinders are not accurate enough for this. As other comments have come in they have pointed me in that direction, so I learn from the experiment :-)
Just a thought,,,used but not wore out treadmill motors?? I have 6 and all the shafts run true..mite be to bulky, but a thought! Bear
Very useful and weighed buying a shaper over a surface grinder for a couple of year. Shaper won out, and a Klopp 450 now sets in the shop ready to be full restored & put to good use. I too before buying it, had future thoughts about attaching my TheMac tool post grinder to a radial arm saw or shaper. Great video, and you sir have made my day,,,Really like your concept,,,Thx for sharing,,Bear in TX. Lower 48.
Will eight months flew by and our shaper is not finished, but you lastest Aug 2022 video made me revisit this one. Time for Emma's # - roughcut2022 drawing close, and this graind / shaper has give me an ides form my project to show,,, Thx once again for mentioning Sammie in that last video, she is missed for sure. Bear
Hi Bear, I had a quick look at your Klopp arriving. Nice. I am always on the lookout for shaper add-ons. I have some ideas yet ...... hopefully in future videos when I get the right bits together. Cheers
Innovative idea, I've seen a grinding attachment on a rather large Planer many years ago, but surface finish looked great, the CBN wheels are difficult to dress.
Thanks for sharing.
Thank you.
An interesting approach... as Daniel said below something to protect the shaper from the grinding dust I would suggest is a must...
Thank you. Amateur approach but I have learnt a lot from it. Cheers
Good idea there, I have the shaper and the grinder so will pop it on the list of projects. Am deep into a drill press at the moment one of the problems being a bent and twisted quill. Thanks for sharing. Steve
Steve, that sounds like a difficult problem to solve. And how does one bend and twist a drill quill in the first place?
I think it may have had a large electric drill chucked direct on the quill as there were no pulleys or motor with it. I tried to straighten the quill but without success so will have to make a new one. It takes a morse no 2 taper.
Nice solution to a mutual problem. Have you thought of the same approach to attached a hack saw? Benefits of collecting the dust produced by the diamond wheel is in Mechinery’s Handbook 1951 edition. There is suggests suspending the dust in water and separate out the diamond dust to use for a finer finish. A hacksaw in the shaper could make the lapping plates to use the diamond dust on.
Hi Robert, I must be getting slow these days because I had not thought of using a shaper as a machine hacksaw but I'm sure if I did not have the trusty Rapidor I would have to try it. :-)
@@HaxbyShedThere is always a place for the "chip off the block" old donkey in the stable. Maybe a shaper can expand the cutting options such as performed by that of a metal bandsaw? If an Abrafile was used instead of a hacksaw blade it could act as a coping saw as well? All that said, I must confess to finding the gentle sound of a Rapidor somehow relaxing.
For every unique problem, there is a unique solution!
I have the unique solution, I just need to find the unique problem to use it on now :-)
Very interesting setup! I'm attempting to do something similar with an old T&C grinder. One suggestion: may want to add some rubber sheeting/guards to keep dust away from the precision slides of the Elliott.
Hi Daniel, I was overcome that it worked at all so did not think about abrasive dust but I saw it on the video afterwards. Yes I would have to cover up next time.
7:30 - Where did you find a surface grinder for 500-600 pounds? Last time I checked, to get a quality surface grinder, it costs $20-$50K. What you just built is comparable to the pro grade surface grinder. Thanks for the explanation, would be nice to show the surface finish accuracy using a dial gauge.
Hi SP, I was probably thinking of some clapped out bit of kit from a home workshop for £600. My solution is rough and ready but often I find that 'near enough' is good enough when you just want to trim a bit off something hard but be more accurate than hand grinding. In another video I trim a hardened parting tool holder to fit my toolpost where the absolute dimension was not important. In that case I used a carborundum wheel and of course there was a bit of taper as the wheel wore but it was manageable over a short distance (maybe 4 inches) for that application. This was the video th-cam.com/video/pKItOC9HWKA/w-d-xo.html Cheers
@@HaxbyShed I did some research, since I only work in precision applications, surface grinder needs to be carefully chosen to get micron to sub-micron flatness accuracy on parts. I read many people were buying quality old used surface grinders for $500 and rebuild it, however it is a great risk since surface grinders are the machines which requires strict observations if the ways, chuck, spindle and etc are working precisely and are accurate. In 99% of the time the used surface grinders are out of tolerance and people end up buying mint or new surface grinders to get expected results on finishes. It seems you just need a surface grinder for no precision applications. Thanks for the reply.
excellent thinking! ill relay what I know of the subject seen as I have a surface grinder(a low end one its an eagle) so taking more than 1 thou at a time would be unusual for me but can be done with flood coolant, the metal heats up and expands locally especially in stainless because it cant conduct away the heat,I've no experience with that wheel you have except to say its probably for very hard materials only, the grinding wheel having a more pour surface tends to remove more metal with less heat, honestly I seem to use a bout a 46 grit green wheel for most of my stuff that's hardened tool steel I dress my wheels after about 12 minutes of grinding, its probably one of my favorite tools and no its not very useful but what the hell ha ha! dont rule out a mill, they are great,so great I bought 3 harrison mills, keep up the work,all the evidence points to you being quite smart, that in itself is a bit like a surface grinder ha ha
Hi Anthony, I really appreciate the advice. I set out on this with just an explorer attitude and no experience. Three Harrison mills - that's greedy. If I got a mill it may be something small - desktop CNC or something. Cheers
@@HaxbyShed I had less knowledge than yourself after a year of owning the grinder ha ha
great idea will be copy.... a question , a usual disc grinder dont work well???( rectificated with a industrial diamond???
Hi Jose, my 'shaper grinder' was just a rough rig because I do not have a toolpost grinder and the jaws are only for my welding positioner chuck (so do not have to be perfect). All grind stones will wear. Stone will wear most. I used diamond but experts tell me that CBN is better on steel. It's all a matter of cost and what the job is. Cheers
Cool project. I remember seeing this done on a shaper by another before. Definitely lots of potential in a setup like this. Is there a project coming up to use this on?
Craig on this one I'm using the 'build and they will come principle'. It will never be a serious surface grinder but it might just be enough to trim a hardened bush or something.
I wonder there will be a magnetic vise build in the future for grinding purposes?
Hi Stephen, a couple of weeks ago I picked up an Eclipse 10in x 5in magnetic vice at the local Autojumble and I'm making a video about servicing that and making brackets to fit it to the shaper. So yes, it's coming soon. :-)
nice idea , add a coolant system for better result
Hi Skillful Man, it's good to have the feedback thanks, and I see now coolant is missing from my rig. Cheers
Hi HS
I've just dropped on to you, great video on how to think outside the box, just up my street, i've sub'd you for future viewing.
Regards
Kev (Mr F's W)
Hi Kev, thanks for the comment. It's simple but effective for small jobs not requiring super high precision. Needs a bit of coolant squirted on when in use. Cheers.
I have a precision tool grinder made by wadkin, I was tempted to make it into a surface grinder but then realised the table moving would have to be done manually, shame really because the head motor has two spindles for coarse and fine wheels
Hi Wadkinrestorations, to say my setup is a "surface grinder" is a bit of a stretch but it's fine for some basic grinding. I've got a job to do on it soon and I will make a video. My shaper table advances at 4thou / 0.1mm per stroke minimum. I had a quick look at your channel and you have some smart machines. To be honest I had not heard of Wadkin but I've since done a bit of googling on them. Cheers
@@HaxbyShed wadkin were around from 1897 to the 90's. They mainly did woodworking machines but did do some high end milling machines and stuff for the aircraft industry. They also did a huge drilling machine for working on big plate steel. I'm finding myself drawn to metalwork. I recently got a lovely lorch screw cutting lathe and a nice little BGA jig borer.
I hope that you have checked the rated speed of the wheel against that of the grinder. Angle grinders usually rotate very quickly; much more than diamond wheels do.
Hi Michael, Thanks for the question. My angle grinder spins at 10,000 rpm. I checked the wheel and no max rpm is stated, so I checked my ebay purchase history and likewise no max rpm stated. So I Googled for max rpm on similar 4in (100mm) 75% resin bonded diamond edge wheels from some reputable companies and nothing jumped out on rpm limits - the rpm references are generally about calculating the right rpm to get a particular surface feet per minute (m/min). But after a lot of hunting I found just one max rpm stated for a similar but larger 5in/125mm wheel on Amazon as 8000 rpm. I guess for a 4in wheel the max rpm would be higher, and then some safety margin. Maybe I won't stand in front of it..... Cheers
@@HaxbyShed Actually, using a diamond wheel on ferrous material is never a good idea anyway. The iron dissolves the diamond (carbon).
@@michaeltelemachus5112 yes I was just reading about that too 😁
You are missing the purpuse of the surface grinder. The biggest problem is the angle grinder bearing, it is not high precision even on the lose side to tolerate the high rpm and temp diviation. Diamond wheel are not ment to cut mild steel it loads up quickly. On my surface grinder the max I cut at once is 0.1mm and when finishing only getting 0.01 mm cuts the lowest graduation is 0.001 mm. if you want to get flat surfaces the play has to be less then the smallest cut. Cheers
Hi Logan880121, thanks for explaining. I have not used a surface grinder myself so it was just "let's try it and see what it can do". I take the point about mild steel and so I will avoid that in future. But still for £30 I have a very basic capability now to maybe trim a hardened bush or a sleeve, albeit with limited or unpredictable accuracy. Cheers.
@@HaxbyShed If you make a 30 mm shaft with plain bearings and 300mm apart. Balance a grinding wheel for steel you will get much better flatness. Almost your toolpost drill but bigger. Cheers
@@Logan880121 Thanks.
You just a hobby shop. Or do you do some customer work
Hi Galen, thanks for the comment. It's just me and my hobby shop so I am only responsible for myself. I don't grind anything for customers :-)
strange how people think of doing something after see it done about 2 years ago by a very cleaver guy, still showing on u tube,
Hi John, I do not claim that it was a unique idea but truthfully I had not seen it before. I will be using it soon for a job and I will be making a video about that. I think it will be useful for some people. Regards
@@HaxbyShed ok will be interested to see your video regards john