I was searching for a wedding photographer. There was my old friend, a respected photographer in my country. We talked about it, we almost booked him for the date, and the last step: he sent me his contract. I was not comfortable with some of his terms, and I asked him to change some, if he is comfortable with my preferences. He said no, but in a polite way. We, of course, stayed good friends, and he did understand my concerns, and offered some good photographers, who were more fit to our conditions. It's like you and your customer/photographer are adults, and it's a business, it should benefit for both of you. If it does not, you should not do it!
beware of anyone in life who has issues with contracts. The only reason people would get upset about having a contract is that they worry about being held accountable to their side of the deal.
The goal of any business is to get more A clients and get rid of D clients. A clients love you even when u screw up and still want me to work w you... D clients such the life out of you every minute of every deal...
It's how I personally feel as a photographer videographer however my cousin who makes music recommended I don't introduce contracts until my business starts popping off more of course there is the risk like I told him that people could screw me over and his response to that was well you simply don't work with them again
YEP. It's not worth it if they don't want a reasonable contract. Also, I've found that "cheap" clients tend to be the absolute worst. Not worth the trouble, not worth the money.
I try to figure it out ... and I just tell people it makes no sense, but is true far too often. All I can think of is that because people might have less money to spend (or in this case, want to spend less money) they want more control over what it can do. People who spend more fitting amounts of money potentially have more trust in the work. Still doesn't explain everything, but I think that's the beginning of it.
This literally happened to me as a graphic designer, the client made me feel so horrible when I asked for payment 5 weeks after I had completed the job, I even gave him an extra 30 days days to pay me and he still had the audacity to call me "disrespectful of his time" This photographer definitely dodged a bullet
Because of clients with shitty attitudes like that I totally changed the way I do business. I’m videographer and animator but the same rules apply. I don’t doing anything without a contract and a deposit first.
This literally happened to me on my first gig. I told the client to let me know everything they wanted so i could add it to the contract, which they eventually did but it was vague (not my problem at this point), and i spent the next week over the phone with them telling me i didnt do enough (which i did way more than i should have). They even started threatening me that they have other photographers lined up for future opportunities. So many businesses do this its so frustrating... KNOW YOUR WORTH + PROTECT YOURSELF.
@@err7273 well then it’s not firing?? The client is not being fired from a job with monetary gain, the only loser in this situation is the photographer since there are so many photographers out there willing to do almost anything for nothing. Just sayin
@@Tugela60 You don't work for them either. You're not employed by them, You're contracted. You can end an agreement with a client if its within your contract.
Listen, I watch wayyyy too many court shows to know that you never accept money for work without a contract. Judge Milan on The Peoples Court always says, even if you had something written down on a napkin with a signature on it, I can fight for your side but because you have nothing, Ive got nothing to work with.
People tend to undermine our work field. for example: My friend the veterinary: could you come by my clinic? I need some art for my walls and would also like my picture taken. Me: sure, I'll even give you a friend discount. MFtV: WHAT? you're charging me? Me: would you take care of my pets for free then? MFtV: of course not! I need to pay my bills this is how I make my liv.... OH! Me: 😎 (actual story) It's better to be seen as difficult than to be seen as a pushover, in this field some people will treat you like a carpet if you let them; also, having a contract does NOT make you difficult, It makes you a smart Professional.
It has happened to me a lot of times, not just by friends of friends but also possible clients. It gets "too difficult" when it comes to signing a contract or, "oh, you are charging me?" or like "well, its just a picture, I can tag you on my social media, that's fair right?" I ask them, well depends, how much traffic do you have on your social media etc. I sometimes say it with a smile, not trying to be rude but like, "would you clean my bathroom? I'll tag you on my social media"
When my "friends" do this to me I charge full price. But if my friend doesn't question and is more than willing to pay full price then I give them the "no qualms homie" discount
I once had a coworker come up to me while I was doodling at the register and he's like: "I see you're good at art, I might ask you for a favor sometime." "You mean like a commission?" "No... like a favor." He wanted me to design a tattoo for him, I tried to explain to him that's the tattoo artists job. In any case I wasn't doing him any 'favors'.
Someone who scoffs at the idea of signing a contract is someone who will screw you over without it. A contract makes it a hell of a lot more difficult to do that without consequences. I have a contract with a friend who works with me as a model so there is no guess work, no questions, it's all right there rather than us relying on a verbal agreement. When we arrange a shoot, she knows what she's getting and I know what I'm getting.
I'm from Indonesia and I'm a wedding photographer. IMHO, a potential client like that will get you in trouble if you take the job. They will look for your mistakes and little things can go big. I've ever found some clients just like that. In the end, they'll refuse to pay you or asking a big discount to compensate for your mistakes and they'll do everything to get you down from posting in online wedding forums to social media or even in newspapers. It's just their strategies to have a good photographer for cheap. Better to refuse the project from this kind of people.
No contract No pictures! People don't have to sign a contract and the photographer doesn't have to take the pictures, that simple. I'm friendly but not your friend, business is business and I protect my business.
I once had a “client” say he was interested in my work and then go on to say over the phone that he has never paid a photographer for their work and if he does then he expects it to be top notch and is super picky. He is a musician, wtf? Needless to say, we did not work together and I don’t plan on it unless he has money upfront.
this happened to me with my moms friend! she started tripping when i brought up a contract... my friend gave me the idea of using the word agreement... she flipped out and got so offended that i asked her to sign something lol
Sending this to all my “friend” clients who feel like they deserve work before a contract or payment. 😂 I feel like recently have lost friendships because I’ve had to stand my ground.
They’re not friends if they use you. As an artist myself, all my real friends pay for my work unless I intentionally draw for them as a gift. Real friends don’t use you
I have received some of the most incredible comments from customers over the years (ie: since 1975) ( including threatening my life over their wedding pictures) . Generally I don't want to work with clients like this. But the bottom line is that the customer is generally trying to kill the contract themselves. After 45 years in the business sometimes you just have to move on. If you have reacted or conducted yourself professionally you are not really losing anything.
It's never worth working with someone that you feel a bit dodgy. After some bad experiences, I now politely run away when I bump into that kind of person. You're right, no opportunity to loose and a big stress relief!
Not pissing them off isn't always possible. But be reasonable and professional. If you are that, the only people that will get pissed off are people you wouldn't want to work with
Omg this happened to me two weeks ago. It caused me so much anxiety because it's a person I see every week in a meeting for referral partners. This person is a working professional, owner of a company, and he told me he didn't sign contracts and that he's never had a photographer ask him to sign contracts. I even tried changing some of the terms and they said they weren't going to sign, period. I politely told him that I was going to pass son the shoot.
Ironically, my first foray into commercial photography, the CLIENT asked me for a contract. Being a portrait photographer throughout college, I never had one made since it was small payments. Now one year later, I'm glad I have something to back me up in case something goes wrong.
Wow I’m actually dealing with a contract situation. When I mentioned about sending a contract they seemed surprised we needed one. Sent it and clearly said if there’s something you have questions about let me know. They never replied 🙃 like you contacted me so do you want design services or not?
Update: Finally messaged back saying they went with someone else. I think they didn’t like my pricing but I priced it low compared to what I should actually be charging. Didn’t even ask if we could work on the price...oh well 🙃🙃🙃
Haru Their loss. Good on you on standing your ground. Never cheapen your rates just to satisfy a potential client. Your time and work is valuable. Cheap customers in all shapes and forms from retail to service industry are the worst kind of clients to work for anyway. They’ll give you more grief than they are worth. I get that we all wanna save some money but we can’t expect the best and not pay the appropriate price.
@@Haru_Light Be careful out there. But there are good people too. Charging for a service doesn't make you a Pro and doing it for free doesn't make you immune to exploitation. If you want to get really screwed, do it unprotected... but nice relationships deserve mutual protection - good clients want you to prosper as much as you do. I remember my first time: I got a champagne celebration, a standing ovation, a very generous gratuity, prompt and substantial payment and repeat business... When I was employed, I got nothing more than "That's what we pay you for... with some hope that "we" can do even better next time". Rejection sucks. But an exceeded target achieved before deadlines and to estimate. Now that's showbiz ! Better than ... er...
You’re helping the art industry by not lowering your rates, the more we do this as a community the more our work will be valued. So even if they went to someone else who clearly hasn’t got the message yet, don’t worry we’ll get there. You doing that honestly helps us all out.
the contract should describe the work to be done and/or things to be delivered, including dates and amounts I hired a professional home-improvement store to replace out kitchen counter top. They wanted all the money up front -- and did not put a competion date on the contract. I refused to sign it until they put a completion date on it. Think about this: with no completion date specified on the contract how can I go to court and say they didn't perform? You don't have to call it a "contract": "Sales Order", or "Work Order" .... "Photographic Event Agreement" .... whatever-- as long as it covers what is to be done, or delivered, by who, and when, and for what amounts. In payments the TERMS specify how payment is to be made: check, card, cash ...... by when.
I know she started her contract off, and I did this with mine as well, by listing off her needs for how she runs her business, her needs may be different than yours. After words she wrote it out herself and had a lawyer look over it! But would love to know how, if at all has her contract evolved since she last did a video dedicated to her contract specifically.
Thank you for this, when we have had few potential clients that expect not to sign contracts or image release form and they become disrespectful when saying we have a booking fee and rates for our time also. So many people told this to and seen as over exaggerating
I think the best thing you can do when someone gets iffy about your contract is to meet up with them in person, then go through your contract and explain to them clearly and calmly why you want to use the contract. In my experience they fully understand and cooperate when you take the time to listen to their worries
Stay away from clients like that . More importantly , you have to recognize the flags . Don’t feel you have to take on every client that comes your way .
Absolutely sound advice. I’m guessing potential clients pull the “we don’t need a contract” more often with women photographers as well. What you can offer is to explain any contract clauses that might be causing concern for the client. Depending on circumstances you can make adjustments, to verbiage, specific terms and conditions etc. but only if you and the client continue to be protected by the contract. I think some legalize can throw people off and raise unfounded concerns even when the terms in question are actually protecting both parties. If the client can’t or won’t understand this then as you say it’s time to walk. Thanks for reminding us what is true in life as well as professional photography Jessica!
It sounds to me more like the client might have been planning on doing something dishonest or fishy and didn't want to be caught up in something to protect the other party on purpose. The overreacting sounds like just a bullying move to try to get what they want anyways because they think the photographer will buckle to not have an argument or missed chance. The client sounds like they're kind of big on themself and had fishy ideas from the start
For me, your apparent distress made it hard to understand what on Earth was going on here ! It is a good rule-of-thumb that Professionals write things down. As a client, I was often asked to sign stuff that essentially sold not only my image, but my soul to the person performing the service of capturing the image. Be clear who owns what, who accepts responsibility and who is giving what to whom when. Or see your out-takes ridiculed by folk making money off your naivety.
This is so true! This is what I've been saying to everyone I know! Please change the system for the better. Contracts, model releases and deposits. We have to work TOGETHER guys. We are not opponents chasing clients. We're a team.
I’m a real estate agent and I have to make a contract with my client so that I can help them either find a house or sell a house and I cannot even begin to tell you how many times people are surprised that they actually have to pay us to help them through the process. ALWAYS make sure you have a contract, it protects both parties.
Great videos Jessica, your work is outstanding! Getting ready for my first paid fashion shoot, contracts are necesarry to protect yourself and ensure payment!
You don't want those clients. Would you rent an apartment without a contract? Absolutely not. What makes clients think they can hire you for your services without a contract? That is a MAJOR red flag and a total "not a good fit" scenario. Thank you for sharing this Jessica! I always love and appreciate your take on client management and everything you do.
I once had a guy not bring the cash on the day even after asking to make sure he did, then the next day he had the balls to tell me to go to his house to get the cash. I said NO I asked you to bring it on the day to avoid this exact problem, then he even tells me it’s only $2 on the metro, again i said no if it’s only $2 you come to me. He got sooo pissed off but I don’t care I gave him the chance on the day, he thought he could mess me around. Some clients just don’t take things serious and wanna be weasels, get that contract signed and avoid headache
I had to do this with a food client of mine and we had been "working out" a change of contract and week after week something came up and payment couldn't be made but was always on its way and HONESTLY after this clients 6th tattoo but could pay for the food, I had to let them go from my services and from that I was able to get 4 new clients....sometimes cleaning house or saying goodbye is very necessary...there is also a fine line of business/friendship and because you as Photographers and me as a Chef we are very close to our clients and it becomes a type of relationship...but I agree professionalism from the start! Again Thank you for all your vids!!!
Thank you for that video, Jessica! I'm a graphic designer and I am quitting my full-time job in a month. I just had a conversation about remote work with an US company but they said they wouldn't fill in a contract with me. I was quite devastated because the payment was good and I knew soon I will be jobless but still I am happy that I didn't go any further. The same happened with an offer to make a photoshop course: no contract, no company name or anyone behind my back, just me in front of 20 people I shall teach. I refused of course but they were very surprised and told me that they were looking for "someone with confidence". It's not about confidence, it's about clear communication and boundaries. To everyone else who is young and scared that they could miss the opportunity of their life - don't you ever think you are stupid and unprofessional because you wanted a contract and more information about the payment, deadlines, etc.
I'll try to keep this brief, but I love the pain, the passion and the pertinence of your advice. Your deposit reserves my time and my talent and I am insured against unavoidable things that may prevent me delivering - like Acts of God (or, more likely, the Devil). Your Fee is payable in advance and buys your presence on the day and specified minima (min. hours covered, min. proof photos) and the fee on completion is when th happy couple take possession of the most precious and irreplaceable memento. Each booking is a piece of your heart and your soul. If not, use guest snaps on disposable cameras. A former boss said "the only thing you can rely on people to do is let you down". I wish that wasn't true, but I'll show you the scars that appropriate documentation could have saved you from. Stay strong & be safe. Love to the Colonies !
A part of my photography studies was all about doing the paperwork and contracts. It’s so important to cover yourself and have it all in writing in case an issue arises
So this is one of the reasons why I'm subscribed. You tell the truth, repeat the important stuff, build a healthy community and give confidence and knowledge to your people. That potential client is a type of person you would want to avoid in any situation. Stay safe.
I know there is a decent amount of photographers “starting out” and I just want to say if you’re not a registered business and also not reporting income (somewhat legitimately) for tax purposes, contracts won’t protect you but may expose you if you decide to litigate. So basically there is no point in contracts if you’re not 100% legally operating as a business when it comes to litigation. Also as long as your properly registering and copywriting all your images with the U.S. Copyright Office with all of your metadata, you can legally go after anyone that you see misuse your image; contract or no contract. Basically, don’t get so hung up on contracts unless you’re working with a high-risk client, large agency, or huge commercial project.
Yes! I just got my contracts revised for the new year. I need that piece of mind so that if something happens, my business is protected. I've only had 1 in the last few years balk at the contract. I suggested they find someone else, they took a few days signed and never mentioned it again.
I have had this but with other types of business. If they get upset about your T and C, deposit or refuse to agree to terms, then they intend to scam you. Massive red flag!!
Hi Jessica. I'm not a professional photographer, but just take photos as a hobby. However I am a professional pet sitter and have a very large and thriving business. One of the very 1st lessons that I learned was: "My business. My rules". If the prospective client doesn't want to follow your rules then they are not your client. This rule has saved my sanity more times than I can count! At 1st I thought I would miss out on business and get a bad reputation. Quite the opposite occurred people. Clients come to me because I am the professional and I set the standards in my community.
Love this. Why do people think because you are creative and have an alt job to a desk job that they can get away with this rubbish? I've told people I'm no longer interested in an "opportunity" once they act like this. I tell them it's a scam. They are trying to scam me out of my precious time and creative resources. You should do speeches at art colleges, there is not enough advice like this :)
I’m a photography student currently unpaid for my work but I want to become a freelance photographer in the future. Would you be able to make a video or something about how to draft an effective contract for prospective clients? I think it would be really beneficial to have that advice from someone with your experience :)
I’ve had this multiple times and honestly I get scared to even mention the contract now. I’ve been sat at my computer in tears once because from their aggression and picking apart the contract I just felt like the couple thought I was trying to catch them out or screw them over or trick them with the contract which, as I’m such a friendly bubbly person, I couldn’t understand why they would think that.
@@strawberry.sunshine Hi Holly I've worked with clients for long time and as soon as money is in the picture people change, plus it not worth given them that opportunity to bully you " that my contract " period.
OOF...The whole reason why I made a contract was because of a past video you made where you strongly advised making one! And I'm so glad I did because it weeded out clients who turned out to not be fully interested and open it up for others. I haven't had the need to refer back to the contract if a problem arose, but it's nice having that reassurance I covered my butt!
Is there a video on basic contract format for photography? Not once did I ever consider that in starting my career, so I'm glad this came across my homepage.
I shot about 30 customers within a day - the organizer of that event constantly took smartphone pictures of me from behind while shooting. (Usually I don't mind, but that was extreme.) When asked, she said it was private - that was a lie, she sent the pics to a WhatsApp group with hundreds of her clients). When I kindly and calmly asked her twice not to do that, she snapped and told me that she never wanted to see me again and that my (!) behaviour regarding this matter was highly unprofessional. I shrugged it off and finished the day. She just couldn't have her authority questioned. 🤷🏼♀️ *facepalm*
Contracts are always an assurance for both parties involved, the only ppl who don't want contracts are people who want to take advantage of your service.
Hey Jess, big fan! I'm someone whose started out this venture only recently and would love for opinions on something regarding the business aspects of freelance photography. is it suitable (for lack of a better word) to have an uploaded copy of your contract visible to people visiting your contact pages when wishing to inquire for services? is it a professional business move? I've been kind of crossed about this and your video only pushes me to think it is.
The timing of this video is unreal. I needed to hear this so bad. I cannot begin to express the stress I’ve endured because “friends” won’t cooperate with me when it comes to contracts. “I’vE nEvEr HaD tO gIvE a PhOtOgRaPhEr A dEpOsIt BeFoRe.” Okay. Then work with those ones again. It is unbelievable what people put creators through.
Thanks for that video. That particular issue is common on every artistic/craft/creative field of work, especially if you're working as a freelancer. In my main field pf work, architecture, I have experienced similar cases, and first of all: if the client is upset with the idea of signing a contract, the obviously it is the red light. Happens often when you're related to the client. There's some kind of middle ground for begginers, that you can agree to some terms, just like you've mentioned in the video, on email. But really, it has to be written somewhere that those are the terms and both sides agreed to them. This kind of agreement is actually legally bounding, at least in Poland. Contract issues are common in creative bussiness, because clients tend to not trust people who are hiring, and sometimes don't value their work as they should, considering that propably they know from the beginning what estimate they gonna spend.
I had one Client complain about the use of a Project, they signed a Contract and didn't have a leg to stand on. They didn't realise that! Contracts are always done for a reason. To protect myself but also the Client and the terms and conditions discussed. If some people don't like it, then go to someone else.
I will NEVER consider doing work without a contract, period, I took on a pro bono job for a marine last Thanksgiving and even had my standard contract, value of the work and a line items noting all fees were waived.... a good contract is not just for one party, it protects all involved and to not have one is just unprofessional. Additionally. one of the standard questions on applications for commercial liability policies ask if contracts are used - and if you answered yes, and you don’t use them, you add a risk of another headache should things go south if your carrier calls into question any liability coverage if you are sued. More to the practical elements of it, and as in the case of the specific email Jessica is noting, there is more glaring other glaring issues beside the contract. If a client is that difficult or unprofessional up front it is likely a blessing as you don’t want to deal with such people - and it is better to find this before you get intertwined with them. NEVER be afraid to move on and as Jessica said politely, and non accusatorially just advise this is not the right project for you. Never chase a client, know YOUR value. The above noted, I will amend my contracts and terms should the customer have valid (for them) concerns. As Jessica stated amend to your threshold of comfort, and this comes down to educating the client as to the ‘whys “ of your contract verbiage - and often that may eliminate or alleviate their concerns immediately. I suspect many photographers use template contracts and it is the photographers responsibility to understand what the terms are - why they are there - and what they mean. This is needed both to have clear communication with the client, and because legally it is OUR contract ! I would recommend caution in altering a template contract unless you are comfortable with a level of understanding of contract verbiage and how changes may impact other elements and protections of the contract. I suspect as a general rule many attorneys would advise against self altering contracts - but as with everything your mileage may vary. I really appreciate the direct and definitive content of this video - it’s such a crucial topic. Being flexible and accommodating is one thing - not using a contract is beyond just foolish, honestly it’s just unprofessional.
LISTEN TO JESSICA!! Contracts are legal safeguards that have been worked out over the years by photographers for photographers, you can’t reason with a crazy person and any client that freaks out over a contract is a nightmare waiting to happen... PASS!!!
This happens all the time. I’m an Interior architect. People think we are decorators and so they’re like I need your decorating skills, and somehow this equals free labor. So insulting when you had to go to technical school for this, and even just a decorator should be respected. Than they go on about doing a whole renovation. When I gave them a quote and how much it would cost for me to go in, draft all the different plans for the new layout, like floor plan, reflected ceiling plan, furniture plan etc.. sections, call outs , renderings for the contractor. Go in and measure and make sure everything was to code. Then of course decoration to complete the final project and to make sure it had the desired aesthetics. When I mentioned how much it would cost them. They’re like your going to charge me?!! And I’m like you think I do this for free? This is a lot of work and time it goes into this. I don’t do this for free. They thought they would get a free or cheap price. It was several thousand dollars for what they were asking for. And let’s not talk about them signing it even reading the contract. Now they don’t talk to me 😂 Edited minor grammatical errors
Great video,Jessica. No contract, no service. It's that simple. If you start bending on your T&C you will be walked all over. Don't do it. Stick to the print.
Hey Kobeissi, I open up shop on March 1st. Wanted you to know your my second fav teacher/instructor at youtube university. Without your help it would not have been possible... Thank You.... #1 is Annie Liebowitz, got a thing for Jewish ladies :)
I was searching for a wedding photographer. There was my old friend, a respected photographer in my country. We talked about it, we almost booked him for the date, and the last step: he sent me his contract. I was not comfortable with some of his terms, and I asked him to change some, if he is comfortable with my preferences. He said no, but in a polite way. We, of course, stayed good friends, and he did understand my concerns, and offered some good photographers, who were more fit to our conditions. It's like you and your customer/photographer are adults, and it's a business, it should benefit for both of you. If it does not, you should not do it!
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beware of anyone in life who has issues with contracts. The only reason people would get upset about having a contract is that they worry about being held accountable to their side of the deal.
All the time , Some of my favourites are , We changed are mind can we refund or deposit ? , That not the price we agreed on , I could go on....
Exactly. These are people who either aren't used to doing "real" business, or some other issue. Either way, walk away
Preach Brother!!! hehe
Just don’t do business with them....easy solution
Amen
One of the most important lessons is knowing when to walk away from a client. Someone who is difficult at this stage will only be worse down the line.
The goal of any business is to get more A clients and get rid of D clients.
A clients love you even when u screw up and still want me to work w you...
D clients such the life out of you every minute of every deal...
Yeah she dodged a bullet, that's not the kind of client you want anyway
As a client, I feel much better when I am presented with a contract.
It's how I personally feel as a photographer videographer however my cousin who makes music recommended I don't introduce contracts until my business starts popping off more of course there is the risk like I told him that people could screw me over and his response to that was well you simply don't work with them again
YEP. It's not worth it if they don't want a reasonable contract. Also, I've found that "cheap" clients tend to be the absolute worst. Not worth the trouble, not worth the money.
The absolute worst
This is true in any business... II don't know why
Could someone explain to me why is this the case? I've noticed this as well but I'm not sure why it is that way. Really scratching my head 😅
I try to figure it out ... and I just tell people it makes no sense, but is true far too often. All I can think of is that because people might have less money to spend (or in this case, want to spend less money) they want more control over what it can do. People who spend more fitting amounts of money potentially have more trust in the work. Still doesn't explain everything, but I think that's the beginning of it.
@@SPECTRA890 Because they have a small budgets but large expectations , they want to spend $20.00 but still get $50 of value
This literally happened to me as a graphic designer, the client made me feel so horrible when I asked for payment 5 weeks after I had completed the job, I even gave him an extra 30 days days to pay me and he still had the audacity to call me "disrespectful of his time" This photographer definitely dodged a bullet
I have a clause in my contract , " client don't have copy right privileges until the contact is paid in full ", Very motivating
Because of clients with shitty attitudes like that I totally changed the way I do business. I’m videographer and animator but the same rules apply. I don’t doing anything without a contract and a deposit first.
This literally happened to me on my first gig. I told the client to let me know everything they wanted so i could add it to the contract, which they eventually did but it was vague (not my problem at this point), and i spent the next week over the phone with them telling me i didnt do enough (which i did way more than i should have). They even started threatening me that they have other photographers lined up for future opportunities. So many businesses do this its so frustrating... KNOW YOUR WORTH + PROTECT YOURSELF.
imagine throwing a fit over signing a contract in order to clarify both parties expectations and regulations. you hate to see it
I almost fired a client the other day... yes, you can fire clients. :)
They don't work for you, so no, you can't.
I’ve fired plenty :)
@@Tugela60 not regarding in those terms🤦🏽♂️
@@err7273 well then it’s not firing?? The client is not being fired from a job with monetary gain, the only loser in this situation is the photographer since there are so many photographers out there willing to do almost anything for nothing. Just sayin
@@Tugela60 You don't work for them either. You're not employed by them, You're contracted. You can end an agreement with a client if its within your contract.
Listen, I watch wayyyy too many court shows to know that you never accept money for work without a contract. Judge Milan on The Peoples Court always says, even if you had something written down on a napkin with a signature on it, I can fight for your side but because you have nothing, Ive got nothing to work with.
Darryl Henry I love Judge Milian! 🤣
This is gospel. Court tv is FILLED with hand shake deals that go wrong, and if things go wrong there's no proof of ANYTHING.
No contract
No service
Plain and simple.
I think Jessica should talk about contracts again
People tend to undermine our work field.
for example:
My friend the veterinary: could you come by my clinic? I need some art for my walls and would also like my picture taken.
Me: sure, I'll even give you a friend discount.
MFtV: WHAT? you're charging me?
Me: would you take care of my pets for free then?
MFtV: of course not! I need to pay my bills this is how I make my liv.... OH!
Me: 😎
(actual story)
It's better to be seen as difficult than to be seen as a pushover, in this field some people will treat you like a carpet if you let them; also, having a contract does NOT make you difficult, It makes you a smart Professional.
It has happened to me a lot of times, not just by friends of friends but also possible clients. It gets "too difficult" when it comes to signing a contract or, "oh, you are charging me?" or like "well, its just a picture, I can tag you on my social media, that's fair right?" I ask them, well depends, how much traffic do you have on your social media etc. I sometimes say it with a smile, not trying to be rude but like, "would you clean my bathroom? I'll tag you on my social media"
Been there. Its annoying
When my "friends" do this to me I charge full price. But if my friend doesn't question and is more than willing to pay full price then I give them the "no qualms homie" discount
I once had a coworker come up to me while I was doodling at the register and he's like:
"I see you're good at art, I might ask you for a favor sometime."
"You mean like a commission?"
"No... like a favor."
He wanted me to design a tattoo for him, I tried to explain to him that's the tattoo artists job. In any case I wasn't doing him any 'favors'.
Someone who scoffs at the idea of signing a contract is someone who will screw you over without it. A contract makes it a hell of a lot more difficult to do that without consequences. I have a contract with a friend who works with me as a model so there is no guess work, no questions, it's all right there rather than us relying on a verbal agreement. When we arrange a shoot, she knows what she's getting and I know what I'm getting.
I'm from Indonesia and I'm a wedding photographer. IMHO, a potential client like that will get you in trouble if you take the job. They will look for your mistakes and little things can go big. I've ever found some clients just like that. In the end, they'll refuse to pay you or asking a big discount to compensate for your mistakes and they'll do everything to get you down from posting in online wedding forums to social media or even in newspapers. It's just their strategies to have a good photographer for cheap. Better to refuse the project from this kind of people.
I think you're absolutely correct: this wasn't an opportunity that slipped away, it was a mountain of pain and lost money avoided.
No contract No pictures! People don't have to sign a contract and the photographer doesn't have to take the pictures, that simple. I'm friendly but not your friend, business is business and I protect my business.
I once had a “client” say he was interested in my work and then go on to say over the phone that he has never paid a photographer for their work and if he does then he expects it to be top notch and is super picky. He is a musician, wtf? Needless to say, we did not work together and I don’t plan on it unless he has money upfront.
This literally just happened to me. A girl literally said she was going to come fight me. It’s absolutely crazy!!!!! How dare they you know???
this happened to me with my moms friend! she started tripping when i brought up a contract... my friend gave me the idea of using the word agreement... she flipped out and got so offended that i asked her to sign something lol
Sending this to all my “friend” clients who feel like they deserve work before a contract or payment. 😂 I feel like recently have lost friendships because I’ve had to stand my ground.
You do you boo. Relationships are worth losing if they get dodgy just because you choose to stand your ground. ❤
They’re not friends if they use you. As an artist myself, all my real friends pay for my work unless I intentionally draw for them as a gift. Real friends don’t use you
The 3 dislikes are the client and his alts lol
Kayla McLaughlin yessss lol
And the 88 alts
расскажите раз так
People are crazy...trying to lie and screw you over. I have a photographer friend who went through a couple interesting situations.
Storytime? Would love to hear some stories!
@@rabbidguarddog dang guess not lol
I have received some of the most incredible comments from customers over the years (ie: since 1975) ( including threatening my life over their wedding pictures)
. Generally I don't want to work with clients like this. But the bottom line is that the customer is generally trying to kill the contract themselves. After 45 years in the business sometimes you just have to move on. If you have reacted or conducted yourself professionally you are not really losing anything.
It's never worth working with someone that you feel a bit dodgy. After some bad experiences, I now politely run away when I bump into that kind of person. You're right, no opportunity to loose and a big stress relief!
Can I make a video request on how to write up a contract to protect yourself and your clients without pissing them off
She has a video like that about her contract it's an older video but she details sections she has in her contract
The ASMP and A Photo Editor have excellent sample contracts
Not pissing them off isn't always possible. But be reasonable and professional. If you are that, the only people that will get pissed off are people you wouldn't want to work with
If they don't sign, they aren't a client. NO is an excellent word; use it often. If they are upset that's on them.
Your going to piss people off " move on "
Omg this happened to me two weeks ago. It caused me so much anxiety because it's a person I see every week in a meeting for referral partners. This person is a working professional, owner of a company, and he told me he didn't sign contracts and that he's never had a photographer ask him to sign contracts. I even tried changing some of the terms and they said they weren't going to sign, period. I politely told him that I was going to pass son the shoot.
A Photography Client ACTUALLY Got Angry Over THIS....
Ironically, my first foray into commercial photography, the CLIENT asked me for a contract. Being a portrait photographer throughout college, I never had one made since it was small payments. Now one year later, I'm glad I have something to back me up in case something goes wrong.
Wow I’m actually dealing with a contract situation. When I mentioned about sending a contract they seemed surprised we needed one. Sent it and clearly said if there’s something you have questions about let me know. They never replied 🙃 like you contacted me so do you want design services or not?
Update: Finally messaged back saying they went with someone else. I think they didn’t like my pricing but I priced it low compared to what I should actually be charging. Didn’t even ask if we could work on the price...oh well 🙃🙃🙃
Haru Their loss. Good on you on standing your ground. Never cheapen your rates just to satisfy a potential client. Your time and work is valuable. Cheap customers in all shapes and forms from retail to service industry are the worst kind of clients to work for anyway. They’ll give you more grief than they are worth. I get that we all wanna save some money but we can’t expect the best and not pay the appropriate price.
Dani C yeah it’s just rough because I’m new to this and rejection sucks. Oh well I’m sure I’ll get another opportunity
@@Haru_Light Be careful out there. But there are good people too. Charging for a service doesn't make you a Pro and doing it for free doesn't make you immune to exploitation. If you want to get really screwed, do it unprotected... but nice relationships deserve mutual protection - good clients want you to prosper as much as you do. I remember my first time: I got a champagne celebration, a standing ovation, a very generous gratuity, prompt and substantial payment and repeat business... When I was employed, I got nothing more than "That's what we pay you for... with some hope that "we" can do even better next time". Rejection sucks. But an exceeded target achieved before deadlines and to estimate. Now that's showbiz ! Better than ... er...
You’re helping the art industry by not lowering your rates, the more we do this as a community the more our work will be valued. So even if they went to someone else who clearly hasn’t got the message yet, don’t worry we’ll get there. You doing that honestly helps us all out.
Love how mature you are!
"I know you don't sign any contracts." Well that is the end right there, end of relationship. Move on. Let them find another sucker.
the contract should describe the work to be done and/or things to be delivered, including dates and amounts
I hired a professional home-improvement store to replace out kitchen counter top. They wanted all the money up front -- and did not put a competion date on the contract. I refused to sign it until they put a completion date on it. Think about this: with no completion date specified on the contract how can I go to court and say they didn't perform?
You don't have to call it a "contract": "Sales Order", or "Work Order" .... "Photographic Event Agreement" .... whatever-- as long as it covers what is to be done, or delivered, by who, and when, and for what amounts. In payments the TERMS specify how payment is to be made: check, card, cash ...... by when.
Thanks for this video Jessica, can u make an update video about "how" to make contracts and the entire process? This would be really helpful!
I know she started her contract off, and I did this with mine as well, by listing off her needs for how she runs her business, her needs may be different than yours. After words she wrote it out herself and had a lawyer look over it! But would love to know how, if at all has her contract evolved since she last did a video dedicated to her contract specifically.
I think she has an older video about this, and she links to her contract template that you can download.
Thank you for this, when we have had few potential clients that expect not to sign contracts or image release form and they become disrespectful when saying we have a booking fee and rates for our time also. So many people told this to and seen as over exaggerating
You know Jessica is annoyed when she doesn’t mention Pokémon or Mario Kart in a video.
I think the best thing you can do when someone gets iffy about your contract is to meet up with them in person, then go through your contract and explain to them clearly and calmly why you want to use the contract. In my experience they fully understand and cooperate when you take the time to listen to their worries
No need to hand hold them, they should understand that buying a service should be covered by clear T's & C's
Stay away from clients like that . More importantly , you have to recognize the flags . Don’t feel you have to take on every client that comes your way .
God bless Jess for watching out for all of us.
Absolutely sound advice. I’m guessing potential clients pull the “we don’t need a contract” more often with women photographers as well. What you can offer is to explain any contract clauses that might be causing concern for the client. Depending on circumstances you can make adjustments, to verbiage, specific terms and conditions etc. but only if you and the client continue to be protected by the contract. I think some legalize can throw people off and raise unfounded concerns even when the terms in question are actually protecting both parties. If the client can’t or won’t understand this then as you say it’s time to walk. Thanks for reminding us what is true in life as well as professional photography Jessica!
It sounds to me more like the client might have been planning on doing something dishonest or fishy and didn't want to be caught up in something to protect the other party on purpose. The overreacting sounds like just a bullying move to try to get what they want anyways because they think the photographer will buckle to not have an argument or missed chance. The client sounds like they're kind of big on themself and had fishy ideas from the start
Thank you Jessica! You are a true professional and we need more professionals leading and teaching new photographers/videographers in the industry.
For me, your apparent distress made it hard to understand what on Earth was going on here ! It is a good rule-of-thumb that Professionals write things down. As a client, I was often asked to sign stuff that essentially sold not only my image, but my soul to the person performing the service of capturing the image. Be clear who owns what, who accepts responsibility and who is giving what to whom when. Or see your out-takes ridiculed by folk making money off your naivety.
Contracts are so important! Anything can happen and you need to protect yourself!
This is so true! This is what I've been saying to everyone I know! Please change the system for the better. Contracts, model releases and deposits. We have to work TOGETHER guys. We are not opponents chasing clients. We're a team.
Tell em straight up Jessica!!!! Good for you, you don't need this aggravation.
Contracts & release forms are a must, every time you step on set.
'Be strong enough to say "no".'
Excellent piece of advice. Great video, as usual.
I’m a real estate agent and I have to make a contract with my client so that I can help them either find a house or sell a house and I cannot even begin to tell you how many times people are surprised that they actually have to pay us to help them through the process. ALWAYS make sure you have a contract, it protects both parties.
Great videos Jessica, your work is outstanding! Getting ready for my first paid fashion shoot, contracts are necesarry to protect yourself and ensure payment!
I deal with clients who back up when they see “retainer fee” instead of “deposit”.
Some people just never done or don’t know how to do business.
You don't want those clients. Would you rent an apartment without a contract? Absolutely not. What makes clients think they can hire you for your services without a contract? That is a MAJOR red flag and a total "not a good fit" scenario. Thank you for sharing this Jessica! I always love and appreciate your take on client management and everything you do.
Be thankful for the HUGE red flag! That particular person sounds like someone to steer clear of for ANY type of relationship.
You’re awesome. Stay away from clients like this.
I once had a guy not bring the cash on the day even after asking to make sure he did, then the next day he had the balls to tell me to go to his house to get the cash. I said NO I asked you to bring it on the day to avoid this exact problem, then he even tells me it’s only $2 on the metro, again i said no if it’s only $2 you come to me. He got sooo pissed off but I don’t care I gave him the chance on the day, he thought he could mess me around. Some clients just don’t take things serious and wanna be weasels, get that contract signed and avoid headache
This was a very important message to people just beginning. This is much appreciated.
Solution is simple. They make a big deal about a contract. Okay bye felecia!
She said: *throws phone on desk from frustration of the problem*
Me: “that’s on a whole mood, PERIODT!!”
I actually got called unprofessional for bringing a contract one time lol. Can you imagine?
I had to do this with a food client of mine and we had been "working out" a change of contract and week after week something came up and payment couldn't be made but was always on its way and HONESTLY after this clients 6th tattoo but could pay for the food, I had to let them go from my services and from that I was able to get 4 new clients....sometimes cleaning house or saying goodbye is very necessary...there is also a fine line of business/friendship and because you as Photographers and me as a Chef we are very close to our clients and it becomes a type of relationship...but I agree professionalism from the start! Again Thank you for all your vids!!!
Thank you for that video, Jessica! I'm a graphic designer and I am quitting my full-time job in a month. I just had a conversation about remote work with an US company but they said they wouldn't fill in a contract with me. I was quite devastated because the payment was good and I knew soon I will be jobless but still I am happy that I didn't go any further. The same happened with an offer to make a photoshop course: no contract, no company name or anyone behind my back, just me in front of 20 people I shall teach. I refused of course but they were very surprised and told me that they were looking for "someone with confidence". It's not about confidence, it's about clear communication and boundaries. To everyone else who is young and scared that they could miss the opportunity of their life - don't you ever think you are stupid and unprofessional because you wanted a contract and more information about the payment, deadlines, etc.
I wonder if contracts with clients in another state are even enforceable?
Thank u for getting out of your comfort zone and educating people about their legal rights and responsibilities! Yes yes yes
I'll try to keep this brief, but I love the pain, the passion and the pertinence of your advice. Your deposit reserves my time and my talent and I am insured against unavoidable things that may prevent me delivering - like Acts of God (or, more likely, the Devil). Your Fee is payable in advance and buys your presence on the day and specified minima (min. hours covered, min. proof photos) and the fee on completion is when th happy couple take possession of the most precious and irreplaceable memento. Each booking is a piece of your heart and your soul. If not, use guest snaps on disposable cameras. A former boss said "the only thing you can rely on people to do is let you down". I wish that wasn't true, but I'll show you the scars that appropriate documentation could have saved you from. Stay strong & be safe. Love to the Colonies !
Thanks for caring enough to the the time to help and explain!
A part of my photography studies was all about doing the paperwork and contracts. It’s so important to cover yourself and have it all in writing in case an issue arises
So this is one of the reasons why I'm subscribed. You tell the truth, repeat the important stuff, build a healthy community and give confidence and knowledge to your people. That potential client is a type of person you would want to avoid in any situation. Stay safe.
I know there is a decent amount of photographers “starting out” and I just want to say if you’re not a registered business and also not reporting income (somewhat legitimately) for tax purposes, contracts won’t protect you but may expose you if you decide to litigate. So basically there is no point in contracts if you’re not 100% legally operating as a business when it comes to litigation.
Also as long as your properly registering and copywriting all your images with the U.S. Copyright Office with all of your metadata, you can legally go after anyone that you see misuse your image; contract or no contract.
Basically, don’t get so hung up on contracts unless you’re working with a high-risk client, large agency, or huge commercial project.
To over-simply, you cannot expect to operate/transact in a grey area and assume full protection legally.
100% CONTACT a lawyer!!!
Jessica you’re amazing. You talk about something that not many people are open to talk about on their channel.
4:08 YOU TELL EM! They can go to someone else! Business is business.
Yes! I just got my contracts revised for the new year. I need that piece of mind so that if something happens, my business is protected. I've only had 1 in the last few years balk at the contract. I suggested they find someone else, they took a few days signed and never mentioned it again.
Uh, time for some tea.
...
Wtf is wrong with that guy 😡
I have had this but with other types of business. If they get upset about your T and C, deposit or refuse to agree to terms, then they intend to scam you. Massive red flag!!
Hi Jessica. I'm not a professional photographer, but just take photos as a hobby. However I am a professional pet sitter and have a very large and thriving business. One of the very 1st lessons that I learned was: "My business. My rules". If the prospective client doesn't want to follow your rules then they are not your client. This rule has saved my sanity more times than I can count! At 1st I thought I would miss out on business and get a bad reputation. Quite the opposite occurred people. Clients come to me because I am the professional and I set the standards in my community.
Love this. Why do people think because you are creative and have an alt job to a desk job that they can get away with this rubbish? I've told people I'm no longer interested in an "opportunity" once they act like this. I tell them it's a scam. They are trying to scam me out of my precious time and creative resources. You should do speeches at art colleges, there is not enough advice like this :)
Great advice. Now I also know 💯 percent. Thanks Jess.
Oof the keep it moving at the end. Preach Jessica
I’m a photography student currently unpaid for my work but I want to become a freelance photographer in the future. Would you be able to make a video or something about how to draft an effective contract for prospective clients? I think it would be really beneficial to have that advice from someone with your experience :)
I’ve had this multiple times and honestly I get scared to even mention the contract now. I’ve been sat at my computer in tears once because from their aggression and picking apart the contract I just felt like the couple thought I was trying to catch them out or screw them over or trick them with the contract which, as I’m such a friendly bubbly person, I couldn’t understand why they would think that.
Because there clients not Friends , Yes there's a difference.
I know they’re not my friends but it doesn’t mean I understand why they’re expecting me to try and screw them over
@@strawberry.sunshine Hi Holly I've worked with clients for long time and as soon as money is in the picture people change, plus it not worth given them that opportunity to bully you " that my contract " period.
OOF...The whole reason why I made a contract was because of a past video you made where you strongly advised making one! And I'm so glad I did because it weeded out clients who turned out to not be fully interested and open it up for others. I haven't had the need to refer back to the contract if a problem arose, but it's nice having that reassurance I covered my butt!
Is there a video on basic contract format for photography? Not once did I ever consider that in starting my career, so I'm glad this came across my homepage.
pick and choose your client in the same manner they pick and choose a photographer. I would never have answered the text.
I shot about 30 customers within a day - the organizer of that event constantly took smartphone pictures of me from behind while shooting.
(Usually I don't mind, but that was extreme.) When asked, she said it was private - that was a lie, she sent the pics to a WhatsApp group with hundreds of her clients).
When I kindly and calmly asked her twice not to do that, she snapped and told me that she never wanted to see me again and that my (!) behaviour regarding this matter was highly unprofessional.
I shrugged it off and finished the day. She just couldn't have her authority questioned.
🤷🏼♀️ *facepalm*
Hahaha I love the end of this, “bye!” 👸🏻🙌🏻
Contracts are always an assurance for both parties involved, the only ppl who don't want contracts are people who want to take advantage of your service.
Hey Jess, big fan!
I'm someone whose started out this venture only recently and would love for opinions on something regarding the business aspects of freelance photography.
is it suitable (for lack of a better word) to have an uploaded copy of your contract visible to people visiting your contact pages when wishing to inquire for services? is it a professional business move? I've been kind of crossed about this and your video only pushes me to think it is.
Some people are just rotten at the core. I could never work with someone like that.
The timing of this video is unreal. I needed to hear this so bad. I cannot begin to express the stress I’ve endured because “friends” won’t cooperate with me when it comes to contracts. “I’vE nEvEr HaD tO gIvE a PhOtOgRaPhEr A dEpOsIt BeFoRe.” Okay. Then work with those ones again. It is unbelievable what people put creators through.
Thanks for that video.
That particular issue is common on every artistic/craft/creative field of work, especially if you're working as a freelancer. In my main field pf work, architecture, I have experienced similar cases, and first of all: if the client is upset with the idea of signing a contract, the obviously it is the red light. Happens often when you're related to the client. There's some kind of middle ground for begginers, that you can agree to some terms, just like you've mentioned in the video, on email. But really, it has to be written somewhere that those are the terms and both sides agreed to them. This kind of agreement is actually legally bounding, at least in Poland.
Contract issues are common in creative bussiness, because clients tend to not trust people who are hiring, and sometimes don't value their work as they should, considering that propably they know from the beginning what estimate they gonna spend.
Great advice. You are not losing an opportunity you are avoiding a problem!
Most clients I’ve dealt with are terrified of contracts...if I insist on them I’d never earn enough to pay the rent..
I had one Client complain about the use of a Project, they signed a Contract and didn't have a leg to stand on. They didn't realise that! Contracts are always done for a reason. To protect myself but also the Client and the terms and conditions discussed. If some people don't like it, then go to someone else.
I will NEVER consider doing work without a contract, period, I took on a pro bono job for a marine last Thanksgiving and even had my standard contract, value of the work and a line items noting all fees were waived.... a good contract is not just for one party, it protects all involved and to not have one is just unprofessional.
Additionally. one of the standard questions on applications for commercial liability policies ask if contracts are used - and if you answered yes, and you don’t use them, you add a risk of another headache should things go south if your carrier calls into question any liability coverage if you are sued.
More to the practical elements of it, and as in the case of the specific email Jessica is noting, there is more glaring other glaring issues beside the contract.
If a client is that difficult or unprofessional up front it is likely a blessing as you don’t want to deal with such people - and it is better to find this before you get intertwined with them.
NEVER be afraid to move on and as Jessica said politely, and non accusatorially just advise this is not the right project for you. Never chase a client, know YOUR value.
The above noted, I will amend my contracts and terms should the customer have valid (for them) concerns. As Jessica stated amend to your threshold of comfort, and this comes down to educating the client as to the ‘whys “ of your contract verbiage - and often that may eliminate or alleviate their concerns immediately.
I suspect many photographers use template contracts and it is the photographers responsibility to understand what the terms are - why they are there - and what they mean. This is needed both to have clear communication with the client, and because legally it is OUR contract !
I would recommend caution in altering a template contract unless you are comfortable with a level of understanding of contract verbiage and how changes may impact other elements and protections of the contract. I suspect as a general rule many attorneys would advise against self altering contracts - but as with everything your mileage may vary.
I really appreciate the direct and definitive content of this video - it’s such a crucial topic.
Being flexible and accommodating is one thing - not using a contract is beyond just foolish, honestly it’s just unprofessional.
There are more fish in the sea folks. I ‘m never afraid to walk away from a photo session. A contract is a must end of story.
LISTEN TO JESSICA!! Contracts are legal safeguards that have been worked out over the years by photographers for photographers, you can’t reason with a crazy person and any client that freaks out over a contract is a nightmare waiting to happen... PASS!!!
Clients are not your friend they are your client! Protect yourself and make a contract! Clients will respect you more! Jessica is right!
I had a comment said from my client one time once I mentioned my contract. “Ohhh my boi Came out strict”
Reasonable ppl are happy about contracts. They are aware it protects them too
This happens all the time. I’m an Interior architect. People think we are decorators and so they’re like I need your decorating skills, and somehow this equals free labor. So insulting when you had to go to technical school for this, and even just a decorator should be respected. Than they go on about doing a whole renovation.
When I gave them a quote and how much it would cost for me to go in, draft all the different plans for the new layout, like floor plan, reflected ceiling plan, furniture plan etc.. sections, call outs , renderings for the contractor. Go in and measure and make sure everything was to code. Then of course decoration to complete the final project and to make sure it had the desired aesthetics. When I mentioned how much it would cost them. They’re like your going to charge me?!! And I’m like you think I do this for free? This is a lot of work and time it goes into this. I don’t do this for free. They thought they would get a free or cheap price. It was several thousand dollars for what they were asking for. And let’s not talk about them signing it even reading the contract. Now they don’t talk to me 😂
Edited minor grammatical errors
SAY NO to this type of annoying client, in my 9 years of photographing I've had some crazy situations happens!
Great video,Jessica. No contract, no service. It's that simple. If you start bending on your T&C you will be walked all over. Don't do it. Stick to the print.
Hey Kobeissi, I open up shop on March 1st. Wanted you to know your my second fav teacher/instructor at youtube university. Without your help it would not have been possible... Thank You.... #1 is Annie Liebowitz, got a thing for Jewish ladies :)