Would have been funnier throw in the schalke doctor instead of the randoms after the Mr Bean doctor you know I originally thought that The Fugitive doctor would be a regenerated doctor from screaming the shotgun we were going to get Doctor Who the Multiverse but no it's more a check Gallifrey bull crap I like 13 I kind of like The Fugitive doctor the stories that made them make me grown
My theory is that all Doctor Who media is, was or will be canon at some point. Due to the Doctor and other time travelers constantly interfering with time, some things are bound to change. I like to think that the Shalka Doctor is the 9th Doctor that would have been if the Time War never happened. It's the best way to explain continuity errors.
I think Shada is a good representation of that. I think every version is canon, most times it happened with the Fourth Doctor, one time it happened with Eight. I think that's a good rule of thumb to explain any inconsistencies
I just say “Fuck it” and go with whatever at this point. The Comic Relief special is definitely non-canon but I’m kind of curious what different adventures a comedic Rowan Atkinson Doctor would go on.
No no no Mr Bean is the doctor if the time will never happened the shower doctor is the doctor after Doctor Who in the time War cuz Russell T Davis never specified which doctor ate regenerated to at the end of that book and the shower doctor is also the last of the time Lords as his backstory Just him in the master in the Box and one of them is a robot
Such a wholesome thing of him to say! I didn't watch anything with Doctor Who until I was already an adult, but I was aware of it existing since I was a child. I just didn't know anyone who actually watched it then. Better late than never I guess?
It's one thing to not like a season, it's another to just try and erase an actor and their series because "It tarnished my favorite show." This is something I see from alot of boomer-4th fans. There's a video of a special feature from Time of the Rani, and it's the same shit just for 5, 6, and 7.
@@plantain.1739 *It's one thing to not like a season, it's another to just try and erase an actor and their series because "It tarnished my favorite show."* ^You make this sound like the time in Dallas when actor; Patrick Duffy returned to the show after being killed off as 'Bobby Ewing' a previous season before the last one (season 6?), now stepping out of the shower saying "hi" to his lover; Pam! Bobby's returned screwed up the show's continuity and storylines from the last season where subplots now had to be forgotten. Whereas The Colby's Dallas spin off ignored the changes and kept Bobby dead. Not liking a season for stupid changes imposed upon it by the show's writers and developers, is a very big thing, trust me some of us know this from experience!
Tip: Just remember to never take something too seriously to the point that you begin to hate it. Step away from it for a while and pour your passion and interest into something else. Watch a different show, pick up a hobby or just relax for a bit. I find writing helps a lot as a creative outlet
UnboundAbdi that one ended so damn depressingly too. Also shoutout to Derek Jackobi for playing not only two versions of the Master, but also the Doctor kinda, because of how Martin believed himself to be the Doctor at some points. Not many actors can claim to have that as a notch in their belt.
I love how the peter Cushing dr who movies are cannon in doctor who as movies. That ian and Barbara wrote books about there travels with the doctor and these movies were the adaptation of those stories
@WhovianStories and Bernard Cribbins who played wilfred was in the daleks invasion of earth movie as ian replacement character so fan theory wilf acted in the doctor who movie
7 killing 6 is one of many stupid and overly edgy events that the VNA'S have done. I despise the context of that moment, especially given at that point, 6 was regarded as an unpopular Doctor, and only felt like kicking a dead old man.
My headcanon has always been that 6 had an extremely deadly allergy to carrots but didn't know it and was killed by Mel and that's why he fell off the exercise bike
Doctor Who canon is really something isn't it? This was a canon where Sherlock Holmes was a real person until he wasn't after the events from a Faction Paradox book banished him and his Doyle canon cast to the world of fiction though one future account does say several years in the future there would be a detective agency founded by alternate Sherlocks. And don't get me started on the Infinity Doctors novel, one possible future where DNA from the Doctor's corpse is used to power a weapon during the War between the Timelords and the Faction Paradox.
My head hurts trying to rationalize the War in Heaven and the Time War, imagining the prospect of two universe bending wars taking place one after the other
There is an old story in philosophy where a man dreams of a butterfly. He forgets himself, and the butterfly is unaware of him. When he wakes up he forgets the butterfly. It was impossible to tell if he dreamt of the butterfly, or if the butterfly was dreaming of him. That's my answer cannon
*There's nothing wrong with the parallel world explanation for contradictory canon.* But if an episode (or, God forbid, a finale) were to spend well over an hour lecturing me on why it's the one and only explanation for the show's confused canon...well, that would just be bad writing. Only the *worst* kind of Doctor Who fan would be that possessive over such a silly aspect of the show.
I wouldn't be surprised if someone hasn't already come up with a head canon wherein Grant's 9th Doctor and The Great Intelligence are the same being. Also, having already bought both Prisoner of the Daleks and Ten Little Aliens, is that _another_ book recommendation to add to the list? Ok then.
I swear I’ve heard the alt ninth doctor and great intelligence theory before. I just can’t remember where i found it. Course what would have happened to that ninth to make him bad
I always thought that comic relief one could crop up in a tiny skit on the show. Imagine going back to the 90s and the doctor and master see that on the telly.
Honestly I absolutely love the TARDIS set for The Curse of Fatal Death. Like, I know that it's small and low budget and I can't pinpoint exactly what I like about it but I've always thought it was gorgeous.
If everything is canon now, that means that I can headcanon that a future incarnation of the Doctor is just 8 all over again and he gets to have adventures that don't involve emotional scarring from the Time War and y'all can't stop me.
With a series that has the main gimmick being time travel, asking for structure and rules like the canon denial people is pretty outlandish. Do I really need to play the Tenth clip explaining how time is again?
Chad Daddy Seasons 11 and 12 ARE canon for a lot of person with me and I didn’t disliked them. You can’t say they are not canon, but you can say they don’t fit in the canon you’ve create for Doctor Who.
My personal head canon as to why the time vortex and regenerations look different every time is simply because it’s such a powerful, borderline incomprehensible and abstract force of nature that most people interpret how it looks differently, and since the Doctor regenerating is basically then turning into a different person and the fact that companions change every couple of seasons, that’s why we see it differently; we’re seeing it from a different perspective
Canon denial is crazy. I am personally fine with like, one or two episodes being non canon (I sure wish Arachnids in the UK was) but an entire showrunner's tenure on Doctor Who? Non-canon? It's childish, really.
@Najawin - I agree with that. It wasn't even 12 episodes, man. And it wasn't like Missy was just a goofy one-off cameo. No. She had a series-spanning incredible arc. It is insulting. It is disrespectful. Series 11 and 12 *are* a part of my canon, but if it annoys Chris I can see why people say otherwise. He sure as Hell annoys me.
If Chris didn't want to deal with it why not have it confirmed that he is pre-Missy in dialogue? It would take 2 lines and it would make about as much sense to the viewers as whatever the Timeless Child was. Or just incorporate Missy's development in the new Master's characterization cause the Master coming back to life or so soon isn't the problem- we know they can do it but a character arc is different, doing away the growth is what doesn't work.
@Najawin The Master's death is more of a logistical thing. I don't want an answer of how the Master cheated death again, I want to know where the character's head is at. And to me the fact that Missy as her own character died is the gut-punch of that scene, no matter if she regenerated or stole a body that person, and everything that made her special is dead and gone. While I'm here I would also like to point out that outright retconning Chibnall's stuff would be committing the same sin he did. I know we don't like what he did but believe it or not there are fans who do and who are we to tell them they're wrong? And even besides that as we've seen with S12 if trying to"fix" the previous showrunner's stuff is the basis of your episodes then that does not lead to good storytelling. This dog chasing its tail approach kills franchises When someone new takes over I don't want the series to try and retcon this I just want them to not address it, just move on and tell new good stories.
@Najawin Comparing liking a series or an episode to "intolerance" is over the top. If S12 had still undone all the things it had undone and still been a good story in its own context would you still have a problem with it? If so then the quality of the changes does not matter, its the going out of the way to undo it . Also, how does the show being more conservative have anything to do with the Master and Gallifrey and the Timeless Child? My point is if the new showrunner doesn't like this then they don't have to "painstakingly work to creep around it" just ignore it as the show has done with so many things fans may not have taken to, like the Doctor being half-human, or the 6th Doctor strangling his companion, like Clara being shoved into almost every moment in the Doctor's life (don't offer me an essay on why that is actually good, it's fine if you disagree the point is lots of fans hated it). Any attempts to address this canon change and spend episodes explaining it away will take the show down a path that will actually destroy it.
Same here. I don't mind theories and all, but don't go pushing your opinion. Unless its claims that Jo Martin came before Hartnell. That's not true and there is on screen proof.
I love this series so much. It reminds me a lot of when i was hyperfocusing big time on DW back in 2012-2014 and would spend evenings just looking at all the wild eu stuff on the wiki.
I'd go one step further to say that it's meaningless and arbitrary in general. A series of misunderstandings over the misusage of a literary term applied to fiction as a passing joke.
DAVIS omg yes yes yes yes I love these videos and there bloodu fantastic your fantastic. I love you dry humour and the way you explain obscure who lore and ideas. Your freaking awsome x
@@alicec1533 Revisit Tomorrow's Times: Second Doctor (forget which DVD it's on, Moonbase or Ice Warriors probably) and you'll find that it did play out like that in some quarters.
I know! The doctor going back in time to actually save gallifrey created a bunch of new dimensions! The Eccleston 9th Doctor is the scenario in which the doctor actually destroyed gallifrey, and had to spend a while mourning. The Atkinson one is the one where Gallifrey was saved. It explains why he wanted to settle down there. He’s been through a lot. The Grant doctor represents the scenario in which the time war never happened, which is why it isn’t mentioned at all. The 10th and 11th doctors only saved gallifrey in one timeline. Or maybe Grant is the one in which gallifrey is destroyed. Maybe it’s because he looks like that, and as suggested in the show, the Eccleston 9th doctor is the one that had gallifrey saved. But that would produce similar outcomes.
@@BoraCM I was using it back in 2008, happy days! 🤪 I don't remember if I had my account that far back but certainly was here in 2008, with the rise of the TH-camr and what that all looked like back then. Very different to what it is now. I remember when videos were limited to 10 mins of content. And copywrite wasn't abused by greedy companies.
A minor correction, The Joanna Lumley Doctor was only going to be the star of one novel, not multiple: it would’ve been called The War. She would’ve been in a prison for people from other timelines during the EDA Novels’s time-war and staged a prison break alongside old British sitcom characters from the 60s & 70s
That sounds like precisely the type of Paul Magrs-esque trippy Mighty Bousch style tripe that the 8DAs did regularly. I'm sure it has it's fans but it's not remotely my cup of tea. Sometimes surrealist comedy in Who can work really well but the 8DAs were far too surrealist and too complex for their own good. The BBC PDAs were better except the ones that went dark, disgusting and violent with characters that it didn't suit (The Indestructible Man, Combat Rock and Rags all spring to mind).
Holy shit, you're absolutely right, that comedy bit laid out the whole foundation for the new Who. Damn, I've watched that show many times and didn't bother to notice what Moffat had done. Wow, it was a giant spoiler so early that most never even knew it was worth being paid attention. Crafty bastard. That should settle the issue of what is and isn't intentional and cannon. That is some seriously Meta shit. Perhaps Moffat is much more that he appears.
For what it's worth, The Last Days author Evan Pritchard is reportedly a pseudonym for New Adventures editor Rebecca Levene, but I couldn't find a source for that anywhere.
"Doctor Who has a canon and it is paramount that it is kept consistent to the absolute letter": 🥴 "Doctor Who doesn't have a canon": 🙂 "Doctor Who has "tiers" of canon dependent on the medium in which the story is told (tv or more canon than audio, which is more canon than book/comic, etc)": 🤔 "Since time within the Whoniverse is relative, capable of being rewritten and having a general "wibbly-wobbly" characteristic, it is not unreasonable to assume that the Doctor's own timeline exhibits the same behavior, warping and changing his own timeline due to enemies past and future, his own interference, or simply the natural ebbing and flowing of time. Therefore, all Doctor Who stories are canon, with some no longer being true, some becoming true in the future, and some existing as a parallel truth to another, either in a parallel universe, a parallel timeline, or even existing in the same universe/timeline, but not intersecting with each other. All Doctors, companions, and stories have/are/will happen, with the temporal physics of the Whoniverse itself defining if, when, and how they are canon to us, the fans, at a given moment. In short, the fluidity of time in Doctor Who justifies the inconsistency of its canon: 🧠 (And that was my attempt at an expanding brain meme.)
Do these people not remember that Doctor Who is a TV show and none of it actually happened and 33 less-than-great episodes isn't the destruction of society itself or...?
Yeah that sounds like something 7 would do I mean we find out he basically orchestrated his own death just to fix the split in the timeline he caused (twice I believe). So he’s not really that caring of his incarnations and will go as far as killing them to keep time in check
The eighth doctor sees the first doctor in surface feature because of if you’re a call from the 60th anniversary on the doctor at one point in service life search repeating regent regent meaning that he would’ve seen the first doctor once again, Steven Moffat seems to be able to solve any problem.
Funny, I was thinking recently that I'd hate to have to do a health and safety risk assessment on being a Dr Who companion. PS - love the Godzilla T-shirt!
Wait, how do you deal it’s impact on future stories though? Do you just like not count Time of the Doctor, Zygon Invasion and Hell Bent or do you just fill in the gaps that Day left yourself to keep those stories in your head canon?
@@crimsondynamo615 what about "save the Daleks"? Also in either a series 9 deleted scene or mini episode where the 12th Doctor said "Look after the universe for me. I've put a lot of work into it." which is what Hugh Grant's Doctor said.
Jedi Spartan 38 oh that too. I didn’t want to go too deep into referencing it, because there’s a review by mrtardisreviews that practically covers all the fatal death references in both magicians apprentice and witch’s familiar
All of Doctor Who isn't cannon - John Morbious Smith has been dreaming about the whole thing while being locked up in prison for murdering a number of people. These people are the same people he dreamed that he was as they've been haunting his dreams.
Here's a fun fact. The 10th doctor from curse of fatal death is obviously played by the same actor as The Ninth doctor from scream of the shalka Boats are played by richard grant Now here's the thing the time war did happen in screen of the shalka See the reason the master is a Robot is because galafrey was destroyed and he and the doctor are the only survivors Now what if the reason that he's called the ninth doctor in this universe and the 10th doctor and the other one is Due to this alternate time war Introducing rowen atkinson as the doctor of war Mister bean ended the time war
@@EditedAF987 Just looked it up. It stars Pertwee, Davison, Baker, and McCoy!?! I'm surprised I've never heard of this before given the plethora of DW alum. Rather strange seeing them as a married couple and making out, Lol
Their is also one account that’s says the sixth doctor die because he fell off an exercise bike so in short the sixth doctor die cause Colin Baker was unfit
I feel like people should accept whatever they want as canon, I mean almost everything in the show can be argued as proven uncannon from other stories. Considering everything on Galifrey that has ever happened can be argued as not cannon and cannon at the same time (looms, anything involving Rassilon, the other, The Doctor as a child, The doctor as another species, the doctor has 1/2 human) etc
Generally I'm ok with "just let Doctors be Doctors and stories be stories" and the fun nonsense not-canon of the franchise, but all things considered, what the TV show does IS generally considered "more important" and reflects on the other media and its readings, and I find the timeless child retcon legitimately damages the premise of the character and show in itself and inherently. So I won't be sad if they DO clumsily find a way to remove that concept from canon officially (the master was lying whatever). Not Jodie herself though, her run's being shit but I look forwards to Big Finishing salvaging her character in 10 years.
@@SamyulDavis More so in this case it's "invalidate stories for fearing licensees will feel forced to include what the licensor product is doing in their own products, which in this case will include a really bad story premise that breaks the main character and show premise". Canon not being canon might be fun, but it's also no longer the 60s and Big Finish or Titan or whatever doesn't get to fully contradict the main show as hard as they used to be able to, that's basic licensing.
That's on them though...and surely seems like another reason to dismiss such flawed approaches to storytelling that prioritise franchising and brand uniformity over storytelling.
I like to think that, if there's a particular story that makes you mad and doesn't jive with you, you can just kinda write it off as not true. At the same time, "not true" doesn't mean "non-canon". The Doctor is a well known being in the universe, and people can tell stories and legends about him. There are so many instances (see the Big Finish audio Omega or A Good Man Goes to War) with people telling stories and getting details wrong that I feel like you don't neccesarily have to take every story you experience as true, but they can always exist as at the very least STORIES in the universe. Think a big ol' talkin penguin is a bit too silly? Just some tale made up on some distant world about a mysterious man, past down for generations.
Given that in curse of fatal death, richard grant is referred to as the tenth doctor And in scream of the shalka cut he's the 9th And that an alternate version of the time war seems to have happened in the shalka universe I'm pretty Sure an alternate version of the rowen atkinson incarnation was the shalka universes war doctor
I think everyone should just stop arguing about doctor who. Some people like the timeless child. Some people think curse of the fatal death is cannon. But I think we can all agree we like doctor who. And we shouldn't tear each other apart because we have diffrent favorite and disliked moments.
Jesus, I know people don't like 13 or the Chibnall seasons (disclaimer: I don't really get why people dislike the seasons), but holy shit. Why do you care *so much?* Why are you *so angry?*
Considering Big Finish was able to give Six and Seven and Eight proper stories and the chance they needed with stories that actually worked for them, I feel Thirteen could have a second chance like they did under the right hands.
Peter Cushing is the only cannon doctor and everything else is a dream of time lord Sidney Newman
Yes
Anything after city of death isn’t cannon
Honestly, this is the only way to make sense of everything at this point.
@@obiwankenobi5845 Book or episode?
Imagine if instead of the Morbius Doctors showing up in the Timeless Children, it was the Curse of Fatal Death Doctors and Cushing
That would’ve made the episode infinitely better
And time Turner from my little pony
That would’ve been weirder
@@gemgem396 Greenpeace doctor from the stage play
Would have been funnier throw in the schalke doctor instead of the randoms after the Mr Bean doctor you know I originally thought that The Fugitive doctor would be a regenerated doctor from screaming the shotgun we were going to get Doctor Who the Multiverse but no it's more a check Gallifrey bull crap I like 13 I kind of like The Fugitive doctor the stories that made them make me grown
My theory is that all Doctor Who media is, was or will be canon at some point. Due to the Doctor and other time travelers constantly interfering with time, some things are bound to change. I like to think that the Shalka Doctor is the 9th Doctor that would have been if the Time War never happened. It's the best way to explain continuity errors.
Past changes with every journey in time.
I think Shada is a good representation of that. I think every version is canon, most times it happened with the Fourth Doctor, one time it happened with Eight.
I think that's a good rule of thumb to explain any inconsistencies
I like your theory
I just say “Fuck it” and go with whatever at this point. The Comic Relief special is definitely non-canon but I’m kind of curious what different adventures a comedic Rowan Atkinson Doctor would go on.
No no no Mr Bean is the doctor if the time will never happened the shower doctor is the doctor after Doctor Who in the time War cuz Russell T Davis never specified which doctor ate regenerated to at the end of that book and the shower doctor is also the last of the time Lords as his backstory Just him in the master in the Box and one of them is a robot
Canon is the friends we make along the way.
*The War Mr Bean! Series 1 of 47.*
Big Finish: We Love Stories.
I am SO down for that.
Tom Baker once said that all Doctor Who stories are canon, even the adventures we had on the playground.
And if there were some hierarchy, those ones would be the most important
Such a wholesome thing of him to say! I didn't watch anything with Doctor Who until I was already an adult, but I was aware of it existing since I was a child. I just didn't know anyone who actually watched it then. Better late than never I guess?
While I’m not the biggest fan of 13’s run (so far) I feel like saying it’s “Not Canon.” Is kinda funny when you consider how Doctor Who “Canon” Is.
It's one thing to not like a season, it's another to just try and erase an actor and their series because "It tarnished my favorite show." This is something I see from alot of boomer-4th fans. There's a video of a special feature from Time of the Rani, and it's the same shit just for 5, 6, and 7.
@@plantain.1739 I am very interested in this bonus feature, please elaborate (bc i'm not going to purchase time and the rani haha)
@@plantain.1739 Ohhh i've seen this. It's also on the Trial of a Timelord disc, I believe.
@@SamyulDavis Makes sense. Half of it is about late 6th
@@plantain.1739 *It's one thing to not like a season, it's another to just try and erase an actor and their series because "It tarnished my favorite show."*
^You make this sound like the time in Dallas when actor; Patrick Duffy returned to the show after being killed off as 'Bobby Ewing' a previous season before the last one (season 6?), now stepping out of the shower saying "hi" to his lover; Pam! Bobby's returned screwed up the show's continuity and storylines from the last season where subplots now had to be forgotten. Whereas The Colby's Dallas spin off ignored the changes and kept Bobby dead. Not liking a season for stupid changes imposed upon it by the show's writers and developers, is a very big thing, trust me some of us know this from experience!
Tip: Just remember to never take something too seriously to the point that you begin to hate it. Step away from it for a while and pour your passion and interest into something else. Watch a different show, pick up a hobby or just relax for a bit. I find writing helps a lot as a creative outlet
doctor who was never canon. it was all in martin bannister’s head.
Wow an Unbound reference. That’s a rare thing for some fans to acknowledge.
Crimson Dynamo I bloody love those audios
UnboundAbdi that one ended so damn depressingly too. Also shoutout to Derek Jackobi for playing not only two versions of the Master, but also the Doctor kinda, because of how Martin believed himself to be the Doctor at some points. Not many actors can claim to have that as a notch in their belt.
Crimson Dynamo apparently it’s shearman’s favourite story he wrote because he got to work with derek jacobi.
UnboundAbdi if i had to work with him I’d feel the same way, he’s great
So that’s why 6 was afraid of 7.
because 7 8 9
I love how the peter Cushing dr who movies are cannon in doctor who as movies. That ian and Barbara wrote books about there travels with the doctor and these movies were the adaptation of those stories
@WhovianStories and Bernard Cribbins who played wilfred was in the daleks invasion of earth movie as ian replacement character so fan theory wilf acted in the doctor who movie
7 killing 6 is one of many stupid and overly edgy events that the VNA'S have done. I despise the context of that moment, especially given at that point, 6 was regarded as an unpopular Doctor, and only felt like kicking a dead old man.
It's not edgy, 7th had a good reason for it... He was jealous of 6th' doctor's dope coat.
I prefer the Big Finish version, where future 6 kills past 6 to abort a timeline where the Valeyard is 6.
@@rassilontdavros3004 that sounds amazing. Which story is that?
@@Arandomfigure The Last Adventure.
My headcanon has always been that 6 had an extremely deadly allergy to carrots but didn't know it and was killed by Mel and that's why he fell off the exercise bike
rip :'(
you should read audiobooks, such a grasp of character voice
Doctor Who canon is really something isn't it? This was a canon where Sherlock Holmes was a real person until he wasn't after the events from a Faction Paradox book banished him and his Doyle canon cast to the world of fiction though one future account does say several years in the future there would be a detective agency founded by alternate Sherlocks.
And don't get me started on the Infinity Doctors novel, one possible future where DNA from the Doctor's corpse is used to power a weapon during the War between the Timelords and the Faction Paradox.
My head hurts trying to rationalize the War in Heaven and the Time War, imagining the prospect of two universe bending wars taking place one after the other
We already have a perfect explanation for the inconistancy in the Doctor Who cannon "wibbly wobbly timey wimey"
I have no idea where he gets that from
There is an old story in philosophy where a man dreams of a butterfly. He forgets himself, and the butterfly is unaware of him. When he wakes up he forgets the butterfly. It was impossible to tell if he dreamt of the butterfly, or if the butterfly was dreaming of him.
That's my answer cannon
*There's nothing wrong with the parallel world explanation for contradictory canon.*
But if an episode (or, God forbid, a finale) were to spend well over an hour lecturing me on why it's the one and only explanation for the show's confused canon...well, that would just be bad writing. Only the *worst* kind of Doctor Who fan would be that possessive over such a silly aspect of the show.
@Najawin - nahhh
I can't wait until My D&D group gets to Time and the Rani and the Doctor is mortally wounded by the exercise bike. That will be priceless.
*CARROT JUICE!*
@@RezaChity-G shows how unimaginative 6 was. He's not human, could've easily claimed carrots were toxic and he got everything he needed from pastries.
We all know the real reason why 7th doctor killed the 6th doctor.... he was very, very jealous of how fabulous 6th looked in his coat.
I wouldn't be surprised if someone hasn't already come up with a head canon wherein Grant's 9th Doctor and The Great Intelligence are the same being.
Also, having already bought both Prisoner of the Daleks and Ten Little Aliens, is that _another_ book recommendation to add to the list? Ok then.
I swear I’ve heard the alt ninth doctor and great intelligence theory before. I just can’t remember where i found it. Course what would have happened to that ninth to make him bad
That’s been my headcanon for years.
How about the weirder Big Finish stories eg: how I've heard Stubagful describe Zagreus as when "Gary Russell was trying to chew his own feet off."
Canons whatever u want it to be, so long as we all enjoy something that’s how it’s meant to be
I always thought that comic relief one could crop up in a tiny skit on the show. Imagine going back to the 90s and the doctor and master see that on the telly.
Honestly I absolutely love the TARDIS set for The Curse of Fatal Death. Like, I know that it's small and low budget and I can't pinpoint exactly what I like about it but I've always thought it was gorgeous.
Some times simplicity working with a smaller budget can bring about something wonderful.
Cannons aren’t canon.
That’s correct. The big shooty guns don’t real
Is Canon canon?
Does my printer really exist or was it all a dream?
If everything is canon now, that means that I can headcanon that a future incarnation of the Doctor is just 8 all over again and he gets to have adventures that don't involve emotional scarring from the Time War and y'all can't stop me.
With a series that has the main gimmick being time travel, asking for structure and rules like the canon denial people is pretty outlandish. Do I really need to play the Tenth clip explaining how time is again?
It's the only long lasting series I know of where you can ( conceivably ) pick up anywhere. Which is the best part.
I accept everything as Canon (the show, big finish, comics and books) except for Scream of the Shalka and Death Comes to Time
Chad Daddy Seasons 11 and 12 ARE canon for a lot of person with me and I didn’t disliked them. You can’t say they are not canon, but you can say they don’t fit in the canon you’ve create for Doctor Who.
My personal head canon as to why the time vortex and regenerations look different every time is simply because it’s such a powerful, borderline incomprehensible and abstract force of nature that most people interpret how it looks differently, and since the Doctor regenerating is basically then turning into a different person and the fact that companions change every couple of seasons, that’s why we see it differently; we’re seeing it from a different perspective
Canon denial is crazy. I am personally fine with like, one or two episodes being non canon (I sure wish Arachnids in the UK was) but an entire showrunner's tenure on Doctor Who? Non-canon? It's childish, really.
@Najawin - I agree with that. It wasn't even 12 episodes, man. And it wasn't like Missy was just a goofy one-off cameo. No. She had a series-spanning incredible arc. It is insulting. It is disrespectful. Series 11 and 12 *are* a part of my canon, but if it annoys Chris I can see why people say otherwise. He sure as Hell annoys me.
@Najawin Best Master story of all time being The Doctor Falls? Cause I second this. It's also my favourite story.
If Chris didn't want to deal with it why not have it confirmed that he is pre-Missy in dialogue? It would take 2 lines and it would make about as much sense to the viewers as whatever the Timeless Child was. Or just incorporate Missy's development in the new Master's characterization cause the Master coming back to life or so soon isn't the problem- we know they can do it but a character arc is different, doing away the growth is what doesn't work.
@Najawin The Master's death is more of a logistical thing. I don't want an answer of how the Master cheated death again, I want to know where the character's head is at. And to me the fact that Missy as her own character died is the gut-punch of that scene, no matter if she regenerated or stole a body that person, and everything that made her special is dead and gone.
While I'm here I would also like to point out that outright retconning Chibnall's stuff would be committing the same sin he did. I know we don't like what he did but believe it or not there are fans who do and who are we to tell them they're wrong? And even besides that as we've seen with S12 if trying to"fix" the previous showrunner's stuff is the basis of your episodes then that does not lead to good storytelling. This dog chasing its tail approach kills franchises When someone new takes over I don't want the series to try and retcon this I just want them to not address it, just move on and tell new good stories.
@Najawin Comparing liking a series or an episode to "intolerance" is over the top.
If S12 had still undone all the things it had undone and still been a good story in its own context would you still have a problem with it? If so then the quality of the changes does not matter, its the going out of the way to undo it .
Also, how does the show being more conservative have anything to do with the Master and Gallifrey and the Timeless Child?
My point is if the new showrunner doesn't like this then they don't have to "painstakingly work to creep around it" just ignore it as the show has done with so many things fans may not have taken to, like the Doctor being half-human, or the 6th Doctor strangling his companion, like Clara being shoved into almost every moment in the Doctor's life (don't offer me an essay on why that is actually good, it's fine if you disagree the point is lots of fans hated it). Any attempts to address this canon change and spend episodes explaining it away will take the show down a path that will actually destroy it.
i have my own head canon but i would never argue with someone elses
Same here. I don't mind theories and all, but don't go pushing your opinion. Unless its claims that Jo Martin came before Hartnell. That's not true and there is on screen proof.
I don't think I've ever laughed harder at your channel then "the War Comic-Relief Doctor!"
I love this series so much. It reminds me a lot of when i was hyperfocusing big time on DW back in 2012-2014 and would spend evenings just looking at all the wild eu stuff on the wiki.
When you have a franchise about a time traveler where the past is being constantly altered, canon is meaningless
I'd go one step further to say that it's meaningless and arbitrary in general. A series of misunderstandings over the misusage of a literary term applied to fiction as a passing joke.
DAVIS omg yes yes yes yes I love these videos and there bloodu fantastic your fantastic. I love you dry humour and the way you explain obscure who lore and ideas.
Your freaking awsome x
The only canon doctor is the first one
@@alicec1533 Revisit Tomorrow's Times: Second Doctor (forget which DVD it's on, Moonbase or Ice Warriors probably) and you'll find that it did play out like that in some quarters.
@Jacob Wood Then again, Rememberance of the Daleks establishes that IN the show, so it's a TV show in a TV show?
@Jacob Wood That's not what canon is
I know! The doctor going back in time to actually save gallifrey created a bunch of new dimensions! The Eccleston 9th Doctor is the scenario in which the doctor actually destroyed gallifrey, and had to spend a while mourning. The Atkinson one is the one where Gallifrey was saved. It explains why he wanted to settle down there. He’s been through a lot. The Grant doctor represents the scenario in which the time war never happened, which is why it isn’t mentioned at all. The 10th and 11th doctors only saved gallifrey in one timeline. Or maybe Grant is the one in which gallifrey is destroyed. Maybe it’s because he looks like that, and as suggested in the show, the Eccleston 9th doctor is the one that had gallifrey saved. But that would produce similar outcomes.
I like this idea, a lot.
@@JeremiahEcks777 It’s weird seeing a reply to a comment, from 2 years ago, that I don’t even remember making.
Aside from that, thanks.
@@BoraCM Oh my favourite was getting a reply to an eight year old comment once. 😆
@@JeremiahEcks777 I haven’t even been on TH-cam that long.
@@BoraCM I was using it back in 2008, happy days! 🤪
I don't remember if I had my account that far back but certainly was here in 2008, with the rise of the TH-camr and what that all looked like back then. Very different to what it is now.
I remember when videos were limited to 10 mins of content.
And copywrite wasn't abused by greedy companies.
I totally believe that the 7th incarnation killed his 6th just so he could be around, that sounds like the kinda thing he'd do
A minor correction, The Joanna Lumley Doctor was only going to be the star of one novel, not multiple: it would’ve been called The War. She would’ve been in a prison for people from other timelines during the EDA Novels’s time-war and staged a prison break alongside old British sitcom characters from the 60s & 70s
That sounds like precisely the type of Paul Magrs-esque trippy Mighty Bousch style tripe that the 8DAs did regularly.
I'm sure it has it's fans but it's not remotely my cup of tea. Sometimes surrealist comedy in Who can work really well but the 8DAs were far too surrealist and too complex for their own good. The BBC PDAs were better except the ones that went dark, disgusting and violent with characters that it didn't suit (The Indestructible Man, Combat Rock and Rags all spring to mind).
Most importantly: "Why is canon?"
Oof, you've got some salty viewers XD
Oh, how easy it would be to disregard Chibanll's era as non canon. But we're not that lucky. Also, I'd take Lumley over Whittaker any day.
OI are you batman
Holy shit, you're absolutely right, that comedy bit laid out the whole foundation for the new Who. Damn, I've watched that show many times and didn't bother to notice what Moffat had done. Wow, it was a giant spoiler so early that most never even knew it was worth being paid attention. Crafty bastard. That should settle the issue of what is and isn't intentional and cannon. That is some seriously Meta shit. Perhaps Moffat is much more that he appears.
5:09 can't shake how much he looks like kai from lexx
For what it's worth, The Last Days author Evan Pritchard is reportedly a pseudonym for New Adventures editor Rebecca Levene, but I couldn't find a source for that anywhere.
The only real canon is Dogtor Who where the 8th doctor regenerated into a dachshund and had a sonic squeaky bone toy.
Oo, got a source on that one?
@@SamyulDavis a story which I haven't written yet, which makes it even more canonical.
"huh. Wonder who that was"
My guess! it was DAVIS sleep typing
Just because the canon sucks absolute ass doesn't mean it isn't canon
Big Finish is the only canon, don't at me.
"Doctor Who has a canon and it is paramount that it is kept consistent to the absolute letter": 🥴
"Doctor Who doesn't have a canon": 🙂
"Doctor Who has "tiers" of canon dependent on the medium in which the story is told (tv or more canon than audio, which is more canon than book/comic, etc)": 🤔
"Since time within the Whoniverse is relative, capable of being rewritten and having a general "wibbly-wobbly" characteristic, it is not unreasonable to assume that the Doctor's own timeline exhibits the same behavior, warping and changing his own timeline due to enemies past and future, his own interference, or simply the natural ebbing and flowing of time. Therefore, all Doctor Who stories are canon, with some no longer being true, some becoming true in the future, and some existing as a parallel truth to another, either in a parallel universe, a parallel timeline, or even existing in the same universe/timeline, but not intersecting with each other. All Doctors, companions, and stories have/are/will happen, with the temporal physics of the Whoniverse itself defining if, when, and how they are canon to us, the fans, at a given moment. In short, the fluidity of time in Doctor Who justifies the inconsistency of its canon: 🧠
(And that was my attempt at an expanding brain meme.)
The right answer beautifully, is pea brain who says 'THEY ARE STORIES'
7:31 Is it bad that I can imagine that happening in a Whittaker story?
I doubt the writers would actually make her do something like that, doesn’t mean I can’t imagine her doctor doing something like that though.
it's time travel with the possibility for multiple universes. Everything is canon, who cares
People who like consistency lmao
No one chooses to be born. Unless you have a questionable umbrella by your side.
For me Doctor who is like warhammer 40k all of it is cannon but not all of it is true.
5.22 The Curator did say the Doctor would revisit some ‘old favourites’
Do these people not remember that Doctor Who is a TV show and none of it actually happened and 33 less-than-great episodes isn't the destruction of society itself or...?
Taseric 33? she’s been extended for s14 and 15 too so
Yeah that sounds like something 7 would do I mean we find out he basically orchestrated his own death just to fix the split in the timeline he caused (twice I believe). So he’s not really that caring of his incarnations and will go as far as killing them to keep time in check
Watches the Ian section. Jesus
The eighth doctor sees the first doctor in surface feature because of if you’re a call from the 60th anniversary on the doctor at one point in service life search repeating regent regent meaning that he would’ve seen the first doctor once again, Steven Moffat seems to be able to solve any problem.
Funny, I was thinking recently that I'd hate to have to do a health and safety risk assessment on being a Dr Who companion.
PS - love the Godzilla T-shirt!
the shalkra doctor is also reference when 13 frees Daughter of Mine in that sequel story released under lockdown
6:16 _"Stop the presses, who is that?"_ 😍
@@themirrorsofmymind my friend, Kurt
lol in the vein of canon denial, I've never accepted the 50th anniversary movie as canon, although it's a fun story
Wait, how do you deal it’s impact on future stories though? Do you just like not count Time of the Doctor, Zygon Invasion and Hell Bent or do you just fill in the gaps that Day left yourself to keep those stories in your head canon?
@@EditedAF987 Yeah I just pick which parts of canon I like. Kinda like the video says there's so much Doctor Who media it's easy to fill in the gaps
Also I'm pretty sure Moffat referenced Curse of Fatal Death elements in his standard works.
The only other chair on skaro bit from witch’s familiar definitely feels like a call back to the chair joke from that special
He also referenced comics by showing some characters from it. Guess where?
@Najawin
Correct! :)
@@crimsondynamo615 what about "save the Daleks"? Also in either a series 9 deleted scene or mini episode where the 12th Doctor said "Look after the universe for me. I've put a lot of work into it." which is what Hugh Grant's Doctor said.
Jedi Spartan 38 oh that too. I didn’t want to go too deep into referencing it, because there’s a review by mrtardisreviews that practically covers all the fatal death references in both magicians apprentice and witch’s familiar
Cybermen having heavy laser cannons is canon
Why is that Solomon dude at the end? 😂😂
he's gonna get ya
DAVIS oh no...
All of Doctor Who isn't cannon - John Morbious Smith has been dreaming about the whole thing while being locked up in prison for murdering a number of people. These people are the same people he dreamed that he was as they've been haunting his dreams.
My personal headcanon: the Curse of Fatal Death Doctors are the Doctors from Pete's World
No I will not explain myself
Here's a fun fact. The 10th doctor from curse of fatal death is obviously played by the same actor as The Ninth doctor from scream of the shalka
Boats are played by richard grant
Now here's the thing the time war did happen in screen of the shalka
See the reason the master is a Robot is because galafrey was destroyed and he and the doctor are the only survivors
Now what if the reason that he's called the ninth doctor in this universe and the 10th doctor and the other one is Due to this alternate time war
Introducing rowen atkinson as the doctor of war
Mister bean ended the time war
@@plantainsame2049 That final sentence is a work of art.
I love that Sixth Doctor: The Last Adventure box set. It was such a fantastic end to the Sixth Doctor.
Where is 8:54 from?😂
Nicholas Briggs making some classy 'films'
A movie called the air zone solution. Colin and Nicola were playing a married couple
@@EditedAF987 they fucked doggy in it
@@EditedAF987 Just looked it up. It stars Pertwee, Davison, Baker, and McCoy!?! I'm surprised I've never heard of this before given the plethora of DW alum. Rather strange seeing them as a married couple and making out, Lol
Their is also one account that’s says the sixth doctor die because he fell off an exercise bike so in short the sixth doctor die cause Colin Baker was unfit
I feel like people should accept whatever they want as canon, I mean almost everything in the show can be argued as proven uncannon from other stories. Considering everything on Galifrey that has ever happened can be argued as not cannon and cannon at the same time (looms, anything involving Rassilon, the other, The Doctor as a child, The doctor as another species, the doctor has 1/2 human) etc
Gonna need me some Joanna Lumley stories.
Chris Chibnall is an alien confirmed cannon.
Can you tier list tardis interiors
Generally I'm ok with "just let Doctors be Doctors and stories be stories" and the fun nonsense not-canon of the franchise, but all things considered, what the TV show does IS generally considered "more important" and reflects on the other media and its readings, and I find the timeless child retcon legitimately damages the premise of the character and show in itself and inherently. So I won't be sad if they DO clumsily find a way to remove that concept from canon officially (the master was lying whatever). Not Jodie herself though, her run's being shit but I look forwards to Big Finishing salvaging her character in 10 years.
Invalidate stories for the sake of a fake hierarchy of fiction if you like, but it bores me
@@SamyulDavis More so in this case it's "invalidate stories for fearing licensees will feel forced to include what the licensor product is doing in their own products, which in this case will include a really bad story premise that breaks the main character and show premise". Canon not being canon might be fun, but it's also no longer the 60s and Big Finish or Titan or whatever doesn't get to fully contradict the main show as hard as they used to be able to, that's basic licensing.
That's on them though...and surely seems like another reason to dismiss such flawed approaches to storytelling that prioritise franchising and brand uniformity over storytelling.
7th Doctor kills the 6th Doctor, sounds like my hunger games simulator playthough
i have thrown out my weed for this series of videos
I like to think that, if there's a particular story that makes you mad and doesn't jive with you, you can just kinda write it off as not true. At the same time, "not true" doesn't mean "non-canon". The Doctor is a well known being in the universe, and people can tell stories and legends about him. There are so many instances (see the Big Finish audio Omega or A Good Man Goes to War) with people telling stories and getting details wrong that I feel like you don't neccesarily have to take every story you experience as true, but they can always exist as at the very least STORIES in the universe. Think a big ol' talkin penguin is a bit too silly? Just some tale made up on some distant world about a mysterious man, past down for generations.
I swear I posted a comment about the Sixth Doctor’s death in your last video, maybe, it was a while ago
LOL were people really trying to write off Jodie as not canon?
The idea of 6 being killed by 7 makes about as much sense as the plot for Human Nature, also written by Paul Cornell.
Dalek bumps
4:54 anyone gonna acknowledge this?
I think we all know that the only canon, is everything along with nothing.
Serious question: is it actually possible to run out of material for this series?
Depends, what year is the Earth going to explode?
So The Doctor is The Joker now?
Chris chibnall is not canon he is really a time ghost who when back in time to 1986 to go on television to kill the sixth doctor .
It's all canon for me. In different time lines
Oh, finally a nice channel that is about classic and wilderness who, better than poparena
Aaaa poparenas great.
@@SamyulDavis but havent posted who in a loooooooooooooong time
Yeah, that's true.
That be wicked the doctor seeing his future incarnation he could have
SJA, TW, RND specails and 13 are all canon, deal with it
Hang on: Is Rowan Atkinson one of the Timeless Children perhaps?
(I know I'm going against some of my own established rules here, but it's a fun idea)
Why is canon?
Rowan Atkinson canonically being the doctor is exactly what I needed
Given that in curse of fatal death, richard grant is referred to as the tenth doctor
And in scream of the shalka cut he's the 9th
And that an alternate version of the time war seems to have happened in the shalka universe
I'm pretty Sure an alternate version of the rowen atkinson incarnation was the shalka universes war doctor
I think everyone should just stop arguing about doctor who. Some people like the timeless child. Some people think curse of the fatal death is cannon. But I think we can all agree we like doctor who. And we shouldn't tear each other apart because we have diffrent favorite and disliked moments.
I don't think anyone likes the Timeless Child, but other than that you're on the mark.
Jesus, I know people don't like 13 or the Chibnall seasons (disclaimer: I don't really get why people dislike the seasons), but holy shit. Why do you care *so much?* Why are you *so angry?*
Is Ace Creeper the Shill canon?
I like Jodie, I just wish she'd have some better stories. Like Fugitive of the Judoon, that was such a surprisingly good episode.
Considering Big Finish was able to give Six and Seven and Eight proper stories and the chance they needed with stories that actually worked for them, I feel Thirteen could have a second chance like they did under the right hands.