well, considering she actually does kill someone in the original play, and only once. It makes sense that it appears once. Sweeney and Mrs. Lovett are constantly surrounded by death. All the people dying to bake pies.
These viewpoints are very interesting to hear! That’s one thing I love about music, that my interpretation is as worthy of consideration (i.e. upvotes) as any number of others, even though I don’t even know the story of Sweeney Todd! Music just... speaks.
Yeah I think he's slightly overanalysing it. I've played the musical myself(cello in the 9-piece version) so it's kinda weird to me how he mentions places where the reference (if it even is one) is very unnoticable (come on, upside down in Worst Pies?) but when they're blatantly obvious (the complete first two bars being played by brass in Epiphany) he doesn't mention them. Also the bass line in epiphany isn't dies irae as far as I'm concerned. Derived maybe, but not more than that.
i could hear it a handful of times (usually when someone was singing, whenever he was talking about the actual instrumental i couldn't hear shit) but even then, thats only like.. 2 or 3 times out of the 99 times he brings it up lmao
@@TovaHolmberger wellll im sure he only noticed it a lil through watching then went over the scores, did his research n connected the dots to present, much like a thesis/essay/dissertation. So dw
@@nahbirdie4773 I've played the bass line in epiphany according to the original 9-part score, I think that makes me entitled to have an opinion on the matter And I said it could technically be derived from if if you stretch the rules. And as I also mentioned, if he went over the score he would've noticed the full inclusion of the dies irae in epiphany almost unchanged except for a the length of a single note, which he didn't
I had a chuckle thinking about this Dies Irae motif because in the musical Beetlejuice they explicitly break the 4th wall by singing that "this is a show about death", and while Beetlejuice sings this he is accompanied by a choir of people singing, you guessed it, Dies Irae. It's a funny little treat for Sondheim fans and overall music nerds. Anyway, loved your analysis. Perfect for spooky season.
this is made especially fun by the fact that when the chorus is singing 'Dies Irae!' behind him, Betelguese is singing his own rendition of it himself in the lines "I have mastered the art | of tearing convention apart". there are some added notes, but it fits the tune perfectly
@@kennymosier9357 yup. at the end of the song: [BETELGEUSE, (ENSEMBLE)] I have mastered the art (Dies Irae) Of tearing convention apart (Dies Irae) So, how about we all make a start (Dies Irae) On the whole "being dead" thing! [ALL] God, I hope you're ready for a show about death!
"You see this part of the Macarena is just the Dies irae with the 3rd note duplicated and put 5th, the 1st and 4th notes inverted and shifted up, the 2nd note put 15th, and then the 3rd note which is now the 5th note put as the first note shifted up 2 octaves and repeated 12 times"
Hey Sideways! Thank you for the shoutout! My series has been my baby and a work in progress! I’ve not released new videos for awhile because of being extremely busy with other projects and interests, and losing steam. And I had over a dozen more videos in the works (including one that finishes the Sweeney Todd series)! I think your video has given me renewed energy to revisit making more content for my channel, so thank you!!
Why not watch the movie and take a shot every time you hear it play in each song 🤣... I’m sure you’ll die from alcohol poisoning almost fitting to the Dies ireae
Macaroni and Cliches Foreshadowing is a dramatic device in which an important plot point is mentioned earlier in the story to return later in a significant way.
The tune under “And my Lucy lies in ashes” is also a direct reference to the tune of the most famous line in Pagliacci, in the closing aria of Act I, Vesti la giubba (“put on the costume”): “Ridi, Pagliaccio, sul tuo amore infranto! Ridi del duol, che t'avvelena il cor!” In English: “Laugh, clown, at your broken love! Laugh at the grief that poisons your heart!” Pagliacci is also the story of a man driven to madness by lies, infidelity, and broken love. The opera ends with the lead, Canio, the one who sings Vesti la giubba, killing his wife and the man who stole her from him in a fit of unbridled rage. So when Sweeney sings of his wife, Lucy, to the tune of Pagliacci, we see another embedded musical clue to the plot: that Sweeney’s madness will not only take the life of Judge Turpin, but the life of Lucy as well. And Sweeney, like Canio, here resolves to “put on the costume”: to put on the façade of a charming, friendly neighborhood barber, when behind that false smile he’s filled with nothing but sadness, despair, and insane murderous fury.
My favorite Sondheim leitmotif is in Into The Woods - "No It's Your Fault" has exactly the same underscore as "Ever After." Their happily ever after is falling apart and Sondheim is making fun of them for their foolhardiness. Brilliant.
Another interesting leitmotif (?)-- I admit, idk if you'd call it that, between two of my favorite Sondheim musicals is when the assassins in Assassins sing, "What about my prize? I want my prize!" near the beginning of Another National Anthem, sounds similar to The Wolf singing "There's no possible way, to describe what you feel. When you're talking to your meal!" near the end of Hello Little Girl from Into The Woods.
right when i heard the Dies Irae I thought "yeah the song at the beginning of The Shining", i had no idea how culturally significant that song was. im not well versed in music like that. learn something new every day!
This is his earlier video where he explains the Dies Irae- th-cam.com/video/SGVqPP-52No/w-d-xo.html - and yeah, the first film he brings up is The Shining
yay! i’ve been dying for you to talk more about musicals- the reason i grasped the idea of leitmotifs so easily in your earlier videos was bc i’m a theater nerd and loved when a show would repeat parts that represented a theme, and i was so happy you gave it a word.
I really want Sideways to do a video essay on “The Bean Theme” Into the Woods. Or- better yet a video series called uses “Main Theme: How music makes the story”
HollowedJes I sent that to my choir teacher to help her convince the theatre department, that we should do ITW. But- we ended up doing a pop music adaptation of Dracula 🧛🏽♂️
To be fair, Johnny Depp had never sung before.... like NEVER. They called him up and they were like, "by the way, can you even sing?" Johnny Depp was like "I don't know. I can try." This is not an easy musical score to do, and he didn't really have the ability to learn it through hearing it. He had to take the musical notes to a professional and learn what to do and how to do it in very little time. He was bound to mess up, and it's not because he couldn't do it.... it's because he didn't have enough time to get it all right. Or at least that's what they said in the bonus features to Sweeney Todd.
Wait, what do you mean he's never sung before...like in a film? Yes he has. It seems you're trying to be an apologist for his singing in this movie but there's no one to blame here except Burton. He's the one who chose Depp to be the lead and sing Sondheim, he's the one who directed it musically. He also really should have given Depp time to train for it musically. I don't blame Depp one bit for not being prepared for such a musical beast that is Sondheim. I think he looked and acted brilliantly in this movie but that was the trade-off made when they cast him.
JenJo I know that. I don't blame him either. The director could have chosen to give him more time. I only say that, because some people do regard him as less good than he should have been. You don't need to be antagonistic. And to the other people: I got this information from the bonus features in Sweeney Todd. I think at the time when he was doing Sweeney Todd, there wasn't much out there of him singing. If you wish to challenge that info, then do your own research, because you're not fighting me on it, you're fighting the people who made Sweeney Todd.
I’m almost certain that when Sondheim refers to Sweeney’s madness as the Stravinsky motif, he’s referring to a short phrase that pops up in the Rite of Spring. You can hear it in the build up to and throughout the Augurs of Spring section
I am still deeply salty that we never got an Alan Rickman version of Judge Turpin's variation on "Johanna" (also known as the "Mea Culpa", drawing upon a different bit of liturgical music), which is *terrifying.* Seriously, why do so many productions cut it?
There's a performance of it somewhere on TH-cam. I often forget it's there! I saw a high school production of Sweeney Todd once that excluded it (but kept everything else), so I thought it was something they only cut in the school versions. I didn't know it was commonly cut out!
I used to sing it to my children at bedtime. My daughter, when grown, called me up after the Depp movie came out and said "OUR LULLABY WAS FROM SWEENEY TODD???!!!" We still laugh about it. :)
@@Ddrhl Ha, that reminds me of a friend of mine, he sang as a little kid and the voice teacher gave him Life is a Cabaret to sing. He told me that and my first thought was... "but that's about a dead prostitute from a show set in nazi Germany!" lol I told him what the song was from and showed him Cabaret, he was so confused lol. Turns out, he only sang the first half of the song, which is the pg and less depressing part.
Video breakdowns like this give me life. Both because I love learning this sort of thing, and because I appreciate anyone who's fighting against this anti-spoiler culture in any way. We've gotten so obsessed with twist endings and diverting expectations that I think people have forgotten how satisfying it is when a narrative plays out exactly like you expect it to. If people are able to interpret the flow of a film or play by paying attention, that's not bad writing. It's excellent writing, in fact, because it means what you're doing has an internal logic that they are able to pick up on. This is a pretty good analysis of Sondheim basically hitting you over the head with that internal narrative logic, and it paying off at the end is what makes the musical so good.
The only difference between those two things is the level of subtlety, but I would tend to agree with you because I don't think most of the people watching the movie picked up on it. Obviously spoiler is a better youtube algorithm word though, so I can't blame him for using it.
@@TheCinderfang im not sure if Merleau-Ponty used brain scans, but yeah it is about how objects can function as an extension of our body if we have gotten used to them as such.
Well now all I can imagine is sideways looking in all those specific environments and then once it reaches the toilet, Sweeney appears with his razor, angered
I love that you included all your sources for this one, I am absolutely going to go through those! Always happy to see you upload dude, and seeing a video where you talk about Sondheim makes me even happier.
The mash-up of the Lucy/Joanna bit at 20:00 also reminds me of the climactic "Ridi, Pagliaccio!" from Vesti La Giubba, Pagliacci, also a show of complete loss and internal torment losing all love and breaking
Please talk about Jekyll and Hyde!!! There were sooo many original songs cut from it that reeeally shouldn't have been! The Girls of the Night, I Need to Know, The World Has Gone Insane, etc... Such an underrated musical!!!!!!!!
Nothing to do with the music, but the "Johnny Depp plays himself" bit: I think that's pretty fair to say for Sweeney Todd, as his daughter fell very ill while he was filming this and he probably couldn't "create a whole different character" at work. I don't find it detrimental for the movie though, the raw depression works in a weird way. Like Sweeney and Depp melted together.
Agreed, especially with his opening line, hearing it bluntly seems more in line with a broken man who lost everything he cherished, and being unable to act on it, simply built his rage such that it grows to simply subsume everything about him.
Some of those mentioned other Depp roles he mentioned aren't exactly unknown for seeing or speaking lyrically about death anyway. Willy Wonka treats it very offhandedly as well for example. The idea of him singing about it isn't much of a stretch.
Johnny Depp did alright in this film, especially considering he straight up just said to Tim Burton that he didn't know if he could sing Lol. I mean they could've picked a better actor probably, but Depp's madness fit the character. Anyway this was freaking awesome! I love the movie even more now
One thing I could never tell was whether or not Sweeny *genuinely* returned Mrs. Lovett's feelings for him or if he just saw her as a "Willing accomplice" that he could have replaced at any given time
Had an ad at the end of the video for the new ‘Doctor Sleep’ movie trailer and it literally had Dies Arae as the music! It’s like it knew what video I’d just watched! Great vid as always :)
God I love this video. I discovered your channel literally 2 days ago and have watched this video multiple times since, and several of your other videos. Never watched the movie, or knew much about it, but I find this video mesmerising!
2:26 - Thanos??? Also I remember going to see a production of Sweeny a couple years back and up until that point I had only ever watched the movie, and then When they started singing the Opening Number (i had never heard it before) I was actually terrified and started to question what exactly was i getting myself into (I was fine with the film, but once you hear the Choir live and crawling out of the fake sewer grates on the set you finally understand THE FEAR). But that plus the Finale and the one where the Asylum people are running loose were actually really REALLY good, on a technical side as well as the choreography and energy of the performance A+ would recommend seeing live if you get the chance. Great vid!!
Thank you for this! Sweeney Todd is my favorite musical, but i have never heard it analysed like this (and i am a musical performer, not a proper musician, so i could not hear these things myself), and it really added an extra layer to my love for this musical, which i really appreciate!
You forgot "The Shining"! ;) That's one of the most iconic and easily recognizable examples of the Dies Irae theme in cinema. Other than that, great video! Now I know why Sweeney Todd is one of my fav musicals. :)
As usual, I guffawed 30 seconds in. This video, though, was an interesting one for me - it's the first musical I know that you've talked about, and my mind was blown right from the start. Great piece, Sideways.
Depp is amazing in this movie one of my favourite movies ever I prefer this type of singing realistic it keeps you intrigued and add an element of possibility to the story
So I caught a glimpse of the Dies Ire and I’m like “Wait a minute...” so I looked up the lyrics... THE HUNCHBACK OF NOTRE DAME USES IT!!! I sang that part of The Bells of Notre Dame and had a total nerd moment aaaaahhhhhh!!!!!!! Go listen to it now! The Disney version!
I'm so happy I found this in my recommended! I've been in music all my life and took music theory when I was in school (though I wasn't particularly good at it) This is exactly the kind of stuff I find myself thinking about and paying attention to when watching movies and theatre. Love the video and definitely gonna subscribe!
I think the gorgeously written spooky music is part of what makes this so amazing. It evokes the feelings I think they were going for. Also, it planted some doubt that Lucy was dead, but I didn't guess it (had never seen/heard of Sweeny Todd before this version). I absolutely love this version, and believe I'd enjoy the story no matter who was telling it.
I thoroughly enjoyed watching this. Makes me want to watch the movie again. Fabulous detail, bringing a lot of things to my attention that I didn’t have before. Things that I know now, that I kind of felt before, but didn’t actually realise WHY. Thank you! ❤️
WHAT A GOOD ANALYSIS! It was so interesting to hear you break everything down, I really enjoyed it. You also reminded me how much I love this movie and the score and now I really need to watch it.
Never really knew or payed any attention to repeating patterns in music. At most I’ve just listened to the soundtracks and like them. So this is really cool to me. Also, Over the Garden Wall and Coraline both have really unique and beautiful soundtracks and now I’m curious about your thoughts on them.
So, this was an amazingly timely post. I just closed on a performance of sweeney Todd on Monday Oct 28th. In all my music theory studies I've come across the Dies Irae A LOT. Now having actually performed in this musical I've obviously sung these motifs somewhere. But I never knew where I heard it from before being in the show until you posted this! Expect a new patron from patreon in the coming weeks.
So Sondheim is by FAR my favourite musical composer. His music is ingeniously put together, and unlike a lot of musicals, it rarely repeats itself. And when it does, it's poignant. I also adore the 2007 adaptation. While it's a little weird to make Pirelli a cockney instead of Irish (an unnecessary switch which probably had more to do with Sacha Baron-Cohen than anything), and while it's a shame that some of the songs had to be cut for timing (shame it wasn't made now when films and stage shows have the same running time again!), I thought it was incredibly faithful. And everything about it was exactly the kind of style you'd imagine the film version to be. Including the obviously fake blood, because the gore was never the point. I rewatch it frequently and I always enjoy it when I do.
*SPOILERS* Listen carefully at the instrumental of the finale sequence of the soundtrack: th-cam.com/video/WcNBhpPdXl8/w-d-xo.html I lastly commented on it. at 3:09, it’s the same melody Sweeney sang in “Epiphany” : “and my Lucy lies in aches.” DEEP. THE MUSIC IS SCREAMING at Sweeney the woman’s identity. Right at the moment he unknowingly killed his wife. It’s brutal and makes it incredibly more tragic. Also at 6:08 - 6:12 notice the continuing melody mix between : “For a miserable woman” (Lucy’s theme) and (though more subtle here than in the movie version) 6:13 - 6:25 “and my Lucy lies in aches” (Sweeney’s melody). IT’S SO IMPRESSIVE. Sondheim is a genius. I haven’t noticed it until now.
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
Dies Irae: The Musical
lmao
AND ITS GREAT!
I interpret Johanna’s black bird line as dodging the dies irae by one note to represent her avoiding death
(edit: spelling)
Mister Mystery And she only just avoids it, really. Sweeney nearly killed her but didn’t.
well, considering she actually does kill someone in the original play, and only once. It makes sense that it appears once.
Sweeney and Mrs. Lovett are constantly surrounded by death. All the people dying to bake pies.
That’s deep
These viewpoints are very interesting to hear! That’s one thing I love about music, that my interpretation is as worthy of consideration (i.e. upvotes) as any number of others, even though I don’t even know the story of Sweeney Todd! Music just... speaks.
That’s amazing
"Once upon a time, there was this guy called Jesus."
Man, when you go back, you go way back.
Been seeing a lot about the Dies Irae recently. Started not being able to miss it in film. It's like the Wilhelm scream.
I didn't even realise it till now but it's in the orcs of Mordor motif from lord of the rings :) makes a lot of sense now
Even Vox did a video about it a month ago: th-cam.com/video/-3-bVRYRnSM/w-d-xo.html
We’re playing a song in concert band about Vesuvius, the volcano that destroyed Pompeii, and the whole middle section is based around Dias Irae!
TheSpacecraftX The beginning of The Shining uses it I believe.
@@AudioGardenSlave123 I noticed it near the start of Joker most recently.
Sweeny Todd is a movie about Johnny Depp killing the cast of Harry Potter.
STARPHASE Or the cast of Les Mis
I can't believe J.K. Rowling has been planning that all along! She really thinks of everything.
EXACTLY like literally everyone in this movie was in harry potter at one point, I was legit waiting for David Tennant to walk on-screen
And I oop-
Now I cant help but imagine Sacha Baren Cohen as some sleazy Hogwarts teacher hushing whores out of the castle
"listen to that flute line" UM SIR I BELIEVE THAT IS TOO HIGH TO BE PROPERLY PLAYED BY A FLUTE THAT THERE IS A PICCOLO SIGNED UR LOCAL FLUTE PLAYER
I will never not love musicians' outrage
You know how you can tell it's a piccolo player?
It's piping hot.
@@UrbanScalawag then blow on it first! Pfft-
So Lucy’s line is flute and joanna’s is piccolo
Yeah, a piccolo, which is short for piccolo flute
“Listen _closely_”
me: Ah, yes, the Dies Irae. I cannot hear it AT ALL but I know it’s there, I guess
Don't worry I'm a music student and I can't listen to all of them without the score, I don't think anyone can listen it without studying it a lot :)
Yeah I think he's slightly overanalysing it. I've played the musical myself(cello in the 9-piece version) so it's kinda weird to me how he mentions places where the reference (if it even is one) is very unnoticable (come on, upside down in Worst Pies?) but when they're blatantly obvious (the complete first two bars being played by brass in Epiphany) he doesn't mention them.
Also the bass line in epiphany isn't dies irae as far as I'm concerned. Derived maybe, but not more than that.
i could hear it a handful of times (usually when someone was singing, whenever he was talking about the actual instrumental i couldn't hear shit) but even then, thats only like.. 2 or 3 times out of the 99 times he brings it up lmao
@@TovaHolmberger wellll im sure he only noticed it a lil through watching then went over the scores, did his research n connected the dots to present, much like a thesis/essay/dissertation. So dw
@@nahbirdie4773 I've played the bass line in epiphany according to the original 9-part score, I think that makes me entitled to have an opinion on the matter
And I said it could technically be derived from if if you stretch the rules. And as I also mentioned, if he went over the score he would've noticed the full inclusion of the dies irae in epiphany almost unchanged except for a the length of a single note, which he didn't
I had a chuckle thinking about this Dies Irae motif because in the musical Beetlejuice they explicitly break the 4th wall by singing that "this is a show about death", and while Beetlejuice sings this he is accompanied by a choir of people singing, you guessed it, Dies Irae. It's a funny little treat for Sondheim fans and overall music nerds.
Anyway, loved your analysis. Perfect for spooky season.
this is made especially fun by the fact that when the chorus is singing 'Dies Irae!' behind him, Betelguese is singing his own rendition of it himself in the lines "I have mastered the art | of tearing convention apart". there are some added notes, but it fits the tune perfectly
that. is. awesome.
Dont they actually like,,, SAY dies Irae as they sing it bc that fuckin hilarious
@@kennymosier9357 yes, i belive so
@@kennymosier9357 yup. at the end of the song:
[BETELGEUSE, (ENSEMBLE)]
I have mastered the art (Dies Irae)
Of tearing convention apart (Dies Irae)
So, how about we all make a start (Dies Irae)
On the whole "being dead" thing!
[ALL]
God, I hope you're ready for a show about death!
"You see this part of the Macarena is just the Dies irae with the 3rd note duplicated and put 5th, the 1st and 4th notes inverted and shifted up, the 2nd note put 15th, and then the 3rd note which is now the 5th note put as the first note shifted up 2 octaves and repeated 12 times"
Do you have a diagram
Because Macarena has antibiotic resistant syphilis so all her beaus descend into madness and die.
Best comment ever hahaa
esotericVideos LMAO!! 😂😂😂😂
Hey Sideways! Thank you for the shoutout! My series has been my baby and a work in progress! I’ve not released new videos for awhile because of being extremely busy with other projects and interests, and losing steam. And I had over a dozen more videos in the works (including one that finishes the Sweeney Todd series)! I think your video has given me renewed energy to revisit making more content for my channel, so thank you!!
PLEASE PLEASE DO YOUR CHANNEL GAVE ME LIFE
I LOVE that series. Watched it twice already. I would be very pleased to see it finished
Awesome because that is something I am going to check out
Once I have rewatched Sweeney Todd yet another time haha
You have a great channel. I used to watch it all the time. Any chance of a new upload?
We want MOAR!
Me: has heard Dies Irae a bajillion times from studying music history
Sideways: there! did you hear it?
Me: huh
Jasmine the Noob I also get confused with Dies Irae because there are so many versions with the same words but different tunes and rhythms.
Take a shot every time he says dies irae
I did. I died.
i asimov was the dies irae playing
Why not watch the movie and take a shot every time you hear it play in each song 🤣... I’m sure you’ll die from alcohol poisoning almost fitting to the Dies ireae
@@iasimov5960 play dies irae for our fallen comrade
Pronounced incorrectly as well
"Now listen closely. What do you hear?"
Me knowing jackshit about music theory: THE DIES IRAE!
Back in my day we called it “foreshadowing” 😂
Can anybody tell me what FORESHADOWING is?
Yes, Miss Granger???
Macaroni and Cliches Foreshadowing is a dramatic device in which an important plot point is mentioned earlier in the story to return later in a significant way.
@@meluuunia6949 Excellent! Ten points to Gryffindor
Ahhhhhh my dickrat people! ( if u don’t get this you will probably be *_very_* confused, I’m sorry 😂)
Mystic Flower77 Jack Bauer Dikrats
The tune under “And my Lucy lies in ashes” is also a direct reference to the tune of the most famous line in Pagliacci, in the closing aria of Act I, Vesti la giubba (“put on the costume”): “Ridi, Pagliaccio, sul tuo amore infranto! Ridi del duol, che t'avvelena il cor!” In English: “Laugh, clown, at your broken love! Laugh at the grief that poisons your heart!” Pagliacci is also the story of a man driven to madness by lies, infidelity, and broken love. The opera ends with the lead, Canio, the one who sings Vesti la giubba, killing his wife and the man who stole her from him in a fit of unbridled rage. So when Sweeney sings of his wife, Lucy, to the tune of Pagliacci, we see another embedded musical clue to the plot: that Sweeney’s madness will not only take the life of Judge Turpin, but the life of Lucy as well. And Sweeney, like Canio, here resolves to “put on the costume”: to put on the façade of a charming, friendly neighborhood barber, when behind that false smile he’s filled with nothing but sadness, despair, and insane murderous fury.
Sondheim is a genius.
Oh shit!
Dang, I thought that sounded familiar!
😮😮😮👍🏼
aka the music when Harold from Hey Arnold gets dramatic lol
My favorite Sondheim leitmotif is in Into The Woods - "No It's Your Fault" has exactly the same underscore as "Ever After." Their happily ever after is falling apart and Sondheim is making fun of them for their foolhardiness. Brilliant.
"no it's your fault" is one of my favorite pieces of musical theater
Another interesting leitmotif (?)-- I admit, idk if you'd call it that, between two of my favorite Sondheim musicals is when the assassins in Assassins sing, "What about my prize? I want my prize!" near the beginning of Another National Anthem, sounds similar to The Wolf singing "There's no possible way, to describe what you feel. When you're talking to your meal!" near the end of Hello Little Girl from Into The Woods.
right when i heard the Dies Irae I thought "yeah the song at the beginning of The Shining", i had no idea how culturally significant that song was. im not well versed in music like that. learn something new every day!
NOW IM JUST ANNOYED THAT I NEVER NOTICED ALL THE DIES IRAE.
AND I WILL NEVER UNHEAR IT EITHER
Isn't that Dies Irae also the Overlook theme from The Shining? That's so cool!
Laurnelle Beukes I was so confused why he didn’t put a clip of that in? The second I heard the Dies Irae, I thought of the Shining
@@gabriellaberman maybe it was a copyright thing?
gabriella berman well he said he just took the examples from an old video so maybe he just couldn’t be assed to edit it in lol
That’s the first thing I heard when he played it for the first time
This is his earlier video where he explains the Dies Irae- th-cam.com/video/SGVqPP-52No/w-d-xo.html - and yeah, the first film he brings up is The Shining
Calling the Rapture the world's greatest slumber party wins all the internet points
My born Catholic ass died laughing at that part!
"We kinda see her leitmotif branded with this ancient chant that has come to represent death" is absolutely the most metal thing I have ever heard.
yay! i’ve been dying for you to talk more about musicals- the reason i grasped the idea of leitmotifs so easily in your earlier videos was bc i’m a theater nerd and loved when a show would repeat parts that represented a theme, and i was so happy you gave it a word.
Finally, it’s spoopy song analysis time
spoopy?
Spoopy.
I really want Sideways to do a video essay on “The Bean Theme” Into the Woods. Or- better yet a video series called uses “Main Theme: How music makes the story”
YES!!! I was really surprised when Sondheim didn't mention in that ITTW educational video that Stay With Me is The Bean Theme.
Here, you want a bean?
Step down, step up, m3 up, step down
(I )think
HollowedJes I sent that to my choir teacher to help her convince the theatre department, that we should do ITW. But- we ended up doing a pop music adaptation of Dracula 🧛🏽♂️
T G my school is doing into the woods this year!
To be fair, Johnny Depp had never sung before.... like NEVER. They called him up and they were like, "by the way, can you even sing?" Johnny Depp was like "I don't know. I can try." This is not an easy musical score to do, and he didn't really have the ability to learn it through hearing it. He had to take the musical notes to a professional and learn what to do and how to do it in very little time. He was bound to mess up, and it's not because he couldn't do it.... it's because he didn't have enough time to get it all right.
Or at least that's what they said in the bonus features to Sweeney Todd.
Well he was in a band but I doubt he sang he sings now though! With the Hollywood Vampires search up "whos laughing now"
Feige Katarina he was in the musical Crybaby where is sang a lot
Wait, what do you mean he's never sung before...like in a film? Yes he has. It seems you're trying to be an apologist for his singing in this movie but there's no one to blame here except Burton. He's the one who chose Depp to be the lead and sing Sondheim, he's the one who directed it musically. He also really should have given Depp time to train for it musically. I don't blame Depp one bit for not being prepared for such a musical beast that is Sondheim. I think he looked and acted brilliantly in this movie but that was the trade-off made when they cast him.
JenJo I know that. I don't blame him either. The director could have chosen to give him more time. I only say that, because some people do regard him as less good than he should have been. You don't need to be antagonistic. And to the other people: I got this information from the bonus features in Sweeney Todd. I think at the time when he was doing Sweeney Todd, there wasn't much out there of him singing. If you wish to challenge that info, then do your own research, because you're not fighting me on it, you're fighting the people who made Sweeney Todd.
@@shawproductions4048 Depp didn't sing in crybaby. It was someone else's voice, James Intveld. He lip synced.
I’m almost certain that when Sondheim refers to Sweeney’s madness as the Stravinsky motif, he’s referring to a short phrase that pops up in the Rite of Spring. You can hear it in the build up to and throughout the Augurs of Spring section
I am still deeply salty that we never got an Alan Rickman version of Judge Turpin's variation on "Johanna" (also known as the "Mea Culpa", drawing upon a different bit of liturgical music), which is *terrifying.* Seriously, why do so many productions cut it?
Certification, is probably the answer for the film. It would have bumped them up at least one rating.
@@kitwhitfield7169 True- that scene is creepy as hell! But so good at the same time
LarsPeterA same for stage. Even the production they filmed years ago with George Herne and Angela Lansbury cut that bit.
Gosh, I've only ever seen one production who did it. Very creepy, very good.
There's a performance of it somewhere on TH-cam. I often forget it's there! I saw a high school production of Sweeney Todd once that excluded it (but kept everything else), so I thought it was something they only cut in the school versions. I didn't know it was commonly cut out!
You didn't touch Toby's song "Nothin's Gonna Harm You". I sing that to my cat sometimes.
I used to sing it to my children at bedtime. My daughter, when grown, called me up after the Depp movie came out and said "OUR LULLABY WAS FROM SWEENEY TODD???!!!" We still laugh about it. :)
I sing this all the time
Why did this make me laugh for so long
@@Ddrhl I will now do this to my pets. Thank you
@@Ddrhl Ha, that reminds me of a friend of mine, he sang as a little kid and the voice teacher gave him Life is a Cabaret to sing. He told me that and my first thought was... "but that's about a dead prostitute from a show set in nazi Germany!" lol I told him what the song was from and showed him Cabaret, he was so confused lol. Turns out, he only sang the first half of the song, which is the pg and less depressing part.
Video breakdowns like this give me life. Both because I love learning this sort of thing, and because I appreciate anyone who's fighting against this anti-spoiler culture in any way. We've gotten so obsessed with twist endings and diverting expectations that I think people have forgotten how satisfying it is when a narrative plays out exactly like you expect it to. If people are able to interpret the flow of a film or play by paying attention, that's not bad writing. It's excellent writing, in fact, because it means what you're doing has an internal logic that they are able to pick up on. This is a pretty good analysis of Sondheim basically hitting you over the head with that internal narrative logic, and it paying off at the end is what makes the musical so good.
Be cool to see a vid on Over the Garden Wall's music♡
Yes
Yes!
Yes, my god, yes!
I think this is more of a foreshadowing rather than a spoiler, don’t you think?
The only difference between those two things is the level of subtlety, but I would tend to agree with you because I don't think most of the people watching the movie picked up on it. Obviously spoiler is a better youtube algorithm word though, so I can't blame him for using it.
@@tristanwilliford9099 semantics. lol
"My arm is complete again", is really remeniscent of Merleau-Ponty's theory of the body schema... yeah i have been studying for too long
Is that the one with how it's been shown with brain scans that show we see tools as part of our body?
@@TheCinderfang im not sure if Merleau-Ponty used brain scans, but yeah it is about how objects can function as an extension of our body if we have gotten used to them as such.
*casually watches video*
*17:33** happens*
“Oh look. It me”
Thanks for the shout out, you have fantastic content!
"its in the walls, its in the street, its in the toilet"
my mind: *imagines cjugames looking into the toilet, searching for the dies irae*
Well now all I can imagine is sideways looking in all those specific environments and then once it reaches the toilet, Sweeney appears with his razor, angered
Somehow the exposure of smaller channels makes me admire you even more, man.
I love that you included all your sources for this one, I am absolutely going to go through those!
Always happy to see you upload dude, and seeing a video where you talk about Sondheim makes me even happier.
The mash-up of the Lucy/Joanna bit at 20:00 also reminds me of the climactic "Ridi, Pagliaccio!" from Vesti La Giubba, Pagliacci, also a show of complete loss and internal torment losing all love and breaking
Please talk about Jekyll and Hyde!!! There were sooo many original songs cut from it that reeeally shouldn't have been! The Girls of the Night, I Need to Know, The World Has Gone Insane, etc... Such an underrated musical!!!!!!!!
Oh my gosh yes!!! It deserves much more attention than it gets!
Nothing to do with the music, but the "Johnny Depp plays himself" bit: I think that's pretty fair to say for Sweeney Todd, as his daughter fell very ill while he was filming this and he probably couldn't "create a whole different character" at work. I don't find it detrimental for the movie though, the raw depression works in a weird way. Like Sweeney and Depp melted together.
👏👏👏👏
Agreed, especially with his opening line, hearing it bluntly seems more in line with a broken man who lost everything he cherished, and being unable to act on it, simply built his rage such that it grows to simply subsume everything about him.
Some of those mentioned other Depp roles he mentioned aren't exactly unknown for seeing or speaking lyrically about death anyway. Willy Wonka treats it very offhandedly as well for example. The idea of him singing about it isn't much of a stretch.
OOh, Sideways posted a new video!!
*Sweeney Todd mentioned in the title*
HOOOOOO
This dude still has a pfp from spore whoa
Does the music spoil Sweeney Todd?
The only person ever to ask this: No.
Dies Irae the Musical
with Johnny Depp as himself
And the cast of the original harry potter as the cast of the original harry potter but in grayscale
Sidways, knows a whole lot about Dies Irae and musical themes, hasn't heard of the term foreshadowing before though.
Actually, Burton was originally going to have the opening musical number sung by Christopher Lee.
Kinda regret we never got to see that.
And now I’m sad.
Aw man that would have been epic
@ 14:15
It's in Hunchback of Notre Dame: when Frollo sings about Esmirelda, the tune is there.
Johnny Depp did alright in this film, especially considering he straight up just said to Tim Burton that he didn't know if he could sing Lol. I mean they could've picked a better actor probably, but Depp's madness fit the character.
Anyway this was freaking awesome! I love the movie even more now
One thing I could never tell was whether or not Sweeny *genuinely* returned Mrs. Lovett's feelings for him or if he just saw her as a "Willing accomplice" that he could have replaced at any given time
I think he would have done whatever was required to achieve his end goal.
Genuinely loving her would not have benefited Sweeney in any way.
3 years and back for a rewatch because this video is awesome. Party on Sideways!
Had an ad at the end of the video for the new ‘Doctor Sleep’ movie trailer and it literally had Dies Arae as the music! It’s like it knew what video I’d just watched! Great vid as always :)
This musical is so haunting- we watched it once in theater class and I never want to have anything to do with it again, and yet here I am.
*Video starts*
Me (chanting): Leitmotifs! Leitmotifs!
6:07: "This is her leitmotif."
Me: YAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSS
God I love this video. I discovered your channel literally 2 days ago and have watched this video multiple times since, and several of your other videos. Never watched the movie, or knew much about it, but I find this video mesmerising!
2:26 - Thanos???
Also I remember going to see a production of Sweeny a couple years back and up until that point I had only ever watched the movie, and then When they started singing the Opening Number (i had never heard it before) I was actually terrified and started to question what exactly was i getting myself into (I was fine with the film, but once you hear the Choir live and crawling out of the fake sewer grates on the set you finally understand THE FEAR). But that plus the Finale and the one where the Asylum people are running loose were actually really REALLY good, on a technical side as well as the choreography and energy of the performance A+ would recommend seeing live if you get the chance. Great vid!!
Thank you for this! Sweeney Todd is my favorite musical, but i have never heard it analysed like this (and i am a musical performer, not a proper musician, so i could not hear these things myself), and it really added an extra layer to my love for this musical, which i really appreciate!
You forgot "The Shining"! ;) That's one of the most iconic and easily recognizable examples of the Dies Irae theme in cinema. Other than that, great video! Now I know why Sweeney Todd is one of my fav musicals. :)
The telemovie or the movie?
"I figured, what better than Demon Barber of Fleet Street?" Well there *is* Assassins, but not many people know about that one sadly.
Oh i thought I was just behind the curve... By 12 years...
Unworthy of Your Love is one of Sondheim's best ballads, change my mind.
As usual, I guffawed 30 seconds in. This video, though, was an interesting one for me - it's the first musical I know that you've talked about, and my mind was blown right from the start. Great piece, Sideways.
"Bobby Burns"
I used to love his stuff, before he had his mental breakdown.
Depp is amazing in this movie one of my favourite movies ever I prefer this type of singing realistic it keeps you intrigued and add an element of possibility to the story
This was AMAZING, hope you do more of these musical analysis
"This alpha stoner by the name of Hector Berlioz" xD
wow, i had so many moments where my mind just exploded. great video, you've got a new subscriber.
I did a stage production of this in Liverpool in July, you smacked it right on the head!!
Oh good, you're not dead. Been a while, man. And you're covering one of my favorite spooky musicals? Nice.
*Sideways mentions Dies Irae*
Oh um so like am I gonna need to grab popcorn for this or something?
Your video essays are fantastic! I always get excited when I see a new vid of yours is out. Keep it up dude :)
Wow. The last time I was this early, Benjamin Barker still had a glimmer of a bright and happy future ahead of him.
Damn, I’m sad now.
I just watched Sweeny Todd on stage like a couple weeks ago and I'm so happy you posted this. Fantastic videos!
So I caught a glimpse of the Dies Ire and I’m like “Wait a minute...” so I looked up the lyrics... THE HUNCHBACK OF NOTRE DAME USES IT!!! I sang that part of The Bells of Notre Dame and had a total nerd moment aaaaahhhhhh!!!!!!! Go listen to it now! The Disney version!
Abi Fitz I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT THIS OMG
I love that your talking about musicals!! Into the Woods would be an awesome show to do! That way you could talk about the movie as well!
"At last... my arm is complete again..."
That line always hits well. Even when 14 and saw this for the first time I loved it. :P
I'm so happy I found this in my recommended! I've been in music all my life and took music theory when I was in school (though I wasn't particularly good at it) This is exactly the kind of stuff I find myself thinking about and paying attention to when watching movies and theatre. Love the video and definitely gonna subscribe!
One of my favorite channels made a video on one of my favorite musicals
Never clicked a video so fast in my life, literally
literally? omg
. . . . . .God I love this.
THis is such an AWESOME Breakdown on this and history of Dies Irae and I am SO glad I found you ^.^
Thank you for providing for the content-starved Sweeney Todd fandom, you have revived me-
This video introduced me to my new favorite musical. Thank you sideways
i thought you meant "spoils" as in "ruins" but im glad that its not and you've also educated me in this video too
Let me tell you, all the jump-cuts you added right before Sweeney was about to kill someone gave me HIGH ANXIETY.
Swing your leitmotiiiiiif sideways, hold it to the skyyyyyyeeeeeees ♫♫
Your explanations are just brilliant!
I have never once referred to Berlioz as an "alpha stoner" but you can bet that it's the only thing I'm going to be doing from now on.
I think the gorgeously written spooky music is part of what makes this so amazing. It evokes the feelings I think they were going for. Also, it planted some doubt that Lucy was dead, but I didn't guess it (had never seen/heard of Sweeny Todd before this version). I absolutely love this version, and believe I'd enjoy the story no matter who was telling it.
XD I finished this movie yesterday, and all so suddenly you upload this video
I LOVE this video more than my own life, I watch at least once a week
Amazing job sideways ♥️
I liked the part when you talked about the Dies irae
😂
I thoroughly enjoyed watching this. Makes me want to watch the movie again.
Fabulous detail, bringing a lot of things to my attention that I didn’t have before. Things that I know now, that I kind of felt before, but didn’t actually realise WHY. Thank you! ❤️
WHAT A GOOD ANALYSIS! It was so interesting to hear you break everything down, I really enjoyed it. You also reminded me how much I love this movie and the score and now I really need to watch it.
Never really knew or payed any attention to repeating patterns in music. At most I’ve just listened to the soundtracks and like them. So this is really cool to me.
Also, Over the Garden Wall and Coraline both have really unique and beautiful soundtracks and now I’m curious about your thoughts on them.
literally three and a half minutes in and i’m enthralled and subscribed
Sondheim is like the Bob Ross of music in the way he speaks, carries himself, and make amazing masterpieces
Just found this channel in my recommended, and I think it's my new favorite. The blend of comedy and serious analysis has me HOOKED.
YES YES YES YES YES I LOVE ANALYZING SWEENEY TODD’S SCORE
So, this was an amazingly timely post. I just closed on a performance of sweeney Todd on Monday Oct 28th. In all my music theory studies I've come across the Dies Irae A LOT. Now having actually performed in this musical I've obviously sung these motifs somewhere. But I never knew where I heard it from before being in the show until you posted this! Expect a new patron from patreon in the coming weeks.
So Sondheim is by FAR my favourite musical composer. His music is ingeniously put together, and unlike a lot of musicals, it rarely repeats itself. And when it does, it's poignant.
I also adore the 2007 adaptation. While it's a little weird to make Pirelli a cockney instead of Irish (an unnecessary switch which probably had more to do with Sacha Baron-Cohen than anything), and while it's a shame that some of the songs had to be cut for timing (shame it wasn't made now when films and stage shows have the same running time again!), I thought it was incredibly faithful. And everything about it was exactly the kind of style you'd imagine the film version to be. Including the obviously fake blood, because the gore was never the point. I rewatch it frequently and I always enjoy it when I do.
*SPOILERS*
Listen carefully at the instrumental of the finale sequence of the soundtrack:
th-cam.com/video/WcNBhpPdXl8/w-d-xo.html
I lastly commented on it.
at 3:09, it’s the same melody Sweeney sang in “Epiphany” : “and my Lucy lies in aches.” DEEP.
THE MUSIC IS SCREAMING at Sweeney the woman’s identity. Right at the moment he unknowingly killed his wife.
It’s brutal and makes it incredibly more tragic.
Also at 6:08 - 6:12 notice the continuing melody mix between :
“For a miserable woman” (Lucy’s theme) and
(though more subtle here than in the movie version)
6:13 - 6:25 “and my Lucy lies in aches” (Sweeney’s melody).
IT’S SO IMPRESSIVE. Sondheim is a genius. I haven’t noticed it until now.
The fact that you didn't mention "The Shining's" main theme for the dies irae makes me sad
That was a fantastic breakdown, this has always been one of my favorite musicals and the music always gripped me... and now I know why
just wanna point out you're a real cool guy sending people over to those small channels
This is such an amazing breakdown, I love your work!
Take a shot every time he says “Dies Irae” it’ll be pretty poetic.