Installing 2x NVMe SSD Cache + Speed Test (they’re are FAST) on Synology DS1621+ (10GbE Test)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 มี.ค. 2021
- This video goes over setting up dual NVMe SSD Cache on a Synology DS1621+ with a installed 10GbE card! This is using two of Synology's 400Gb NVMe Drives to create a read SSD Cache.
#NVMeCache #Synology #SpeedTest
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Simple and direct to the point. Thank you for stellar information
Glad it was helpful!
You are the best man. I love you and your willignness to share so much! We are due for an upgrade from DS920+ to DS1821+, and I have so many questions about the whole thing. Your videos are a bit long, but as long as I go through them, I pick up information here and there. I am so tired of learning for today... but damn its good. Unfortunately we are a small SME, the director (me) have to do this myself. Luckily I am technically inclined, but it still takes time nonetheless
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Thank you. As always, a job well done. Clear, concise, quick and easy!
This is a really concise and useful demo!
Though one huge implication that bears highlighting is that people with anything less than a 10 gigabit connection between their computer and the NAS are not going to see the sequential read speedup demonstrated here, because already the three HDDs would saturate their connection. A demonstration of how the NVMe cache helps random I/O or onboard NAS application loads would seem to be in order...
Great video. Another extremely informative video. Thanks!
Thanks for the video! It is a shame you don't get more views and subscribers as you are a godsend for beginners.
These things are not the easiest to set up and you explain things simply and clearly. Thanks!
Do you think it would help with the responsiveness of say Moments (or Synology photos) on a DS918+ as a read cache for a single user, or just a waste of money? The price of nvme drives is coming down, so I think many people are looking at them and thinking if it is worth it or not.
For that more ram will do wonders compared to NVMe
That really helps!!
You saved my but with the SATA vs. NVMe. Many thanks!
Hello!
Many thanks for Synology explanation for us.
I use Samsung 970 PRO [MZ-V7P512BW] (512Gb) instead original M2 SSD on DS1821+ and reach speed for read to 1113 MBps. Exellent!
Yeah its insane how fast these NVMe drives are!
great and super helpful video thank you
Thanks for posting this
Hey glad you liked it!
Nice explained video
I will stick with my 920+ since I got a great Black Friday deal. The 10Gbe speeds are great but I feel for my needs, TM, Plex and project archival, it's enough to go a much more expensive route on the DS1621+. I need occasionally space to edit videos/3d/after effects but I rather get an external TB enclosure with fast nvme drives. Can't beat that speed. Hopefully, we will in 2022 see 10Gbe across most of Synology products keeping the same price structure.
thank you. great vid. wondering if it's mandatory to install two NvMe or can I install only one and which size is preferred. great video. keep going
You've been so helpful setting up my 1621xs+! So it's possible to edit FCPX library files right off the NAS with these?
Yes you can! It’s a great setup. I edit 100% of my videos off of a NAS
@@SpaceRexWill So you'll move the library and project media over to the SSD for editing and move it back afterwards?
@@thefilmpoets, he keeps these files on the NAS the whole time. That's how I understood the comment.
- Eero
Thank you for this video. I just installed some cache and have a question. The screen you're showing at 17:50 is not in my DSM 7. Did Synology take that away from us also. If so, I wish they'd put it back!!!! TIA
you always have a fire shirt on. i love it and the synology content you provide. thanks
haha thanks!
Thanks!
Wow thank you so much!
Your videos make NAS configuration approachable for people with moderate tech skills!
Great video. As a pro photographer, I have around 12TB of photos on my DS923+. Would I see a performance increase with nvme cache while using Lightroom? Would you go read only on read/write? Also, would I be fine with a pair of 970 EVO Plus, or should I go with pro grade nvme only?
Thanks!
Wayan
Wait I have a question...First test with ssd cache was slower...then a "full copy" was made to the ssd cache and then you got the very fast copy speed...but that's totally logic but my question is if you copy for the first time it'll always be slower right ? The cache is only fast if you did the first copy and then use the cache for like video editing so it read it fast ?
Amazing video! Well done. When is a write cache worth it? If i have multiple people accessing files, it seems like read only makes the most sense.
If you're having multiple users accessing files over and over it is useful.
If you're hosting a media platform and people mostly interact with random media files it will be slower than not having a cache.
For it to be a net gain in speed people would need to interact with the files very frequently, otherwise the loss in speed adds up (2s longer load time with a SSD means you have to have at least 1:30 cached interactions to come out even in general use).
This is also why having a large cache is important. The larger your cache the more likely it is someone will interact with that data before it gets removed. This is really only useful IMO when you're dealing with large files. Small files (if you're using your NAS for business purposes (database management, interaction with company files etc.) it is not necessary because the files already transfer plenty fast. The larger the media the more AND the more users you have accessing that media, the more important an SSD cache is.
This was a good video explaining the benefits but I don't think he really explained why you would/wouldn't want to use the hardware if you're not running an ideal environment for it.
Thanks for a gr8 video. Question: Will Kingston A2000 1tb(NVMe m.2 2280 SSD) work with Synology DS1618+ ?
The other thing to consider in a high access environment is that by using an NVME cache for reading, even with a 16 disk array, is that the heads on the drives are not being used therefore less wear and tear on the hard drive read heads, thereby reducing chances of failure.
you will also just burn out the NVMEs
@@DroneChannelUSA use pro drives. a 2TB pro samsung has 1500 tbw and a 5 year warranty.
@@RayValdezPhotography Oh wow cool didn't know that is awesome!
I have the DS1618+ and I set it up with RAID 5 and have data already on the drives/NAS. I just want to understand. If I install the NVME (for cache) like you did in this video, it won't delete or remove any of my my current/existing data right? You said it would "nuke" everything and made me a little paranoid. I would just go to the SSD Cache and then Create like you did and then it would only format the NVME drive? Thanks for the video's and all the work you put into it. Very informative and I have learned a lot!
Thanks for the video, as usual, you've done an excellent job. I just acquired a Synology DS1621+. I plan on putting two NVMe SSD's and the 10GB port in. Is there any benefit to putting in two drives that have more than 400GB capacity? Additionally, do I have to stick with the Synology branded NVMe SSD's, or can I go after market? Thanks.
with NVMe drivers honestly they are just so much faster than anything else having a higher quaility drive will not do much.
When you are looking for size look at your ‘hot’ data. Most likely 400 gigs is easily enough
@@SpaceRexWill Thanks for the reply!
Great video - I'm new into this space - I edit large 5K files and I am looking into purchasing my first NAS, the DiskStation DS1621xs+ & eventually upgrading my switch to 10gb to future proof my system - would you recommend the upgraded NVMe & additional RAM for someone wanting to edit 5K videos off their NAS???? I would be the only person using the NAS/cache.
For video editors my upgrade list is:
1) 10GbE
2) NVMe
3) RAM
With all of them being a significant performance increase
@@SpaceRexWill Thanks for the reply and opinion! I really appreciate it!
Great vid. When installing the cache @9:48 you said "because this is DSM 6 ... this will nuke everything out". I'm interested in what you meant and what the difference is between DSM 6 and 7. Also, as with another commenter, I'm interested in whether the NVMe cache improves VM performance.
I cover it more here: th-cam.com/video/IFEOrR0OjdQ/w-d-xo.html but in DSM 6 if you add or remove a ssd cache it must offline the volume first meaning all VM's must be shut down, all shares disconnected, etc for about 3-5 min. in DSM 7 this is no longer the case.
As for VM's most workflows will see really huge performance improvement with SSDs
@@SpaceRexWill Got it - thanks. Just got a DS 1621+ this week and have been impressed. Enjoying your channel and please keep the vids coming on this NAS.
@SpaceRex In the end, what do you recommend? 2 NVMe SSD or RAM expansion? I have a Synilogy DS923+ and I only have 4Gb RAM. Does memory expansion help me more than a read-only NVMe SSD? Thank you
Some time ago he said that 4 gb is more than enough for DSM.
Thanks for this video, very helpful. Is there any benefit to having SSD cache for a system thats predominantly Time Machine backup and restore?
Thanks for the video,In a backup system with NVME cache, do I have speed gains?
are NVME heat sinks needed? thinking of buying WD SN700 NAS NVME. do you have any recommendation for heat sink, since WD doesn't provide them. thank you
What NVMe capacity would you recommend?
I have bought 2 NVMe's, both are 2GB Samsung 980 Pro's. I was going to throw them into a Read/Write. I do video editing and content creation and work with usually about 5 to 25 4GB GoPro files at a time... did I buy too much cache? You said 100 to 300 GB was plenty, I feel like 4GB of cache is overkill but I just don't know. I put in 32GB of memory, I have a 10SFP+ network card with Cat 6a and all 10SFP Ubiquity hardware and I have a 1621+ with 6 18TB drives in a RAID 10. I am the only user.
Nice vidéo... Can you test Synology with Nv me cache with VMware ?
If I set up my NAS, and decide I want to add an NVME in the future, do I have to format all the drives?
Do you recommend a Read only Cache or Read/Write Cache? I've got a 1tb cache. I mainly will use it for photos/videos. Your videos have been helpful!
Read only RAID0
@@SpaceRexWill why?
Great video! Would a 1821+ perform the same way?
Did the "skip sequential I/O" option get removed from DSM 7.2? I can't find it anywhere.
I"m looking to purchase this NAS, do you recomend it? If not what alternative?
1) Is the read-only nvme cache transparent as an end user? In other words, does it simply appear that you are accessing the files on the main NAS/RAID volume? 2) Do you need RAID 0 to saturate a 10gbe link, or would RAID 1 also be able to serve up data fast enough (if it is even an option, though as you point out in another response, a failure in a read-only cache would not cause loss of data) 3) Do you have a sense of wether accessing video files on the NAS/RAID through an editing application like Resolve or Premiere Pro would cause the Synology device to load those files into the nvme cache, thus serving them up at the higher cache speed, or is it only tuned for activities like OS managed file copying?
1) The only way the end user could tell if the file was in cache or not would be access speed. otherwise its all managed behind the scenes
2) if you are read only then RAID1 and 0 will have the same read speeds (theoretically at least). Though since you are read only there is not reason to have any RAID protection as read only means the data is first stored on your main hard drive array, then ALSO copied to the NVMe drives. The 'truth' data is always the hard drive volume being accelerated. Meaning if a NVMe drive crashes you still have 100% of your data and your volume just keeps plugging along (just without the SSD cache)
3) its block level so that means whatever the synology needs to access from the disks gets put in the cache. What that means for you is it doesnt matter how you access the files, if you are accessing them it will be much faster. Having edited off a NAS before and after SSD cache adding the SSD cache made a MASSIVE improvement. I would highly recommend it
@@SpaceRexWill Thanks very, very much! One more question came to mind regarding nvme cache: the big performance difference between the WD Red Plus vs Pro appears to be the size of the RAM on the drives. Would a nvme cache largely eliminate that performance difference when reading? (Thus the money spent on nvme drives could offset the Plus vs Pro price difference?)
In dsm7, the skip seq io option seems gone. Is it still possible to get fast seq speed boost with nvme ssd as read-only cache? Thanks
Where are your links to the NVME you are recommending to install!?
Would an NVMe SSD Cache be worthwhile for a full SATA SSD NAS?
I assume rarely, as in RAID, it would be easier to reach those NVMe SSD Cache speeds, but curious to hear if it is worth it?
hi, do you know if Western digital WD red SN700 are compatible in a DS1821+ synology? and what maximum capacity we can install?
I don't have any SSD cache currently installed, should I get the WD_Black SN750 (I see they have SN850's now) with or without the Heatsink? I have the same Synology DS1621+, I have only 2 people using the NAS in our home.
I wonder how smart the cache is.. like is plex starts transcoding a 50gb video file, will it pull the whole file to the cache or will ot continuously access the file on the HDD to grab the next section to transcode?
No, it will only keep files in cache that have already been read
I'm using 7.2, so my software doesn't correspond exactly to this. After creating the cache did you have to enable sequential reads? I didn't understand your comment. Is there anything that needs to be done after creating a read only cache on the software side?
Guys pls check compatibility for M2 caches on your device before buying as there’s little help from Synology or your supplier. I found unfortunately to be the case. Result was the M2 caches I got were too tall for the slot and to go onto returning and reordering. Was a mess.
So would this help, If I had 8 people family and Friends on plex, accessing photos and Family Videos at the same time? If so, do I only set up ssd for read only or write only or both? I keep hearing so many different ways to set it up.
Thanks for sharing this.
If you had 8 people then something like this would really help.
If so read only caches are also so much better for 99% of users.
That's good to hear. Thanks for the lightning response 👊
Question: how much memory do I need to run a pair of 400gb SSDs?
Do you have a recommendation for NVMe drives for a DS1821+. The Drives you recommend below are SATA SSD
I have them here: th-cam.com/video/CSwtLGWP47E/w-d-xo.html
Some person on newegg is saying in his review that the M.2 are proprietary? but in the video you only mention that it's 2280 so I can use for example a standard samsung 970 evo?
For the desktop units with m.2 slots you are not required to use the proprietary ones
Is there not other benefits from using the nvme ssd cache other than file transfer (network)? I am wondering if the system uses the cache itself for software running on the NAS. Like if you have some web service running and the system utilizes particular files wouldnt those frequently accessed files be loaded into the nvme ssd cache, or does the system only use the processor cache for such purposes and this nvme sdd cache is only for cache network traffic like file transfers? I ask because I am considering using this system to set up VMs and Web Hosting and other software features of Synology DSM, so obviously having more memory and such would help there, and having more cache too, but not necessarily network only cache. So is this nvme only for cache of network traffic, or does it cache all disk activity including that of the System (DSM) and supported software? If the nvme also improves system performance and not just network performance, then there might be additional benchmarks over just measuring file transfer that might be important for someone who might want to purchase nvme. Just trying to figure that out at the moment as I do not think I will get much advantage, as you demonstrate, using nvme for network traffic (because of how I am using the NAS), but might I still get a great performance boost towards running system software? That might still make it worth to me as I will be running different NAS system services and software. Let me know what you think. Thanks.
Ah yes, web hosting (esp with databases) will have a huge performance increase with ssd caching.
I focus on transfers because that's what 90% of users will notice. But VMs and other software you talked about will greatly benefit from the IOPS that a NVMe drive brings to the table
@@SpaceRexWill Thank you, that is most helpful.
Happy to help!
Quick question. Can you use an NVMe cache. For an 2.5 SSD storage medium? Is there an speed limit? Or speed boost?
You would not get an NVMe drive, it would be a SATA drive (at least on synology, new custom servers you can)
Do you have any new results on NVMe in DSM 7? I read your Reddit comments on your preliminary testing. I am wondering if I should return my 2x500GB WD NVMe cards? I use my DS1921+ running DSM 7 with 10GBE card for FCPX video editing.
If you check out this video you can see that the NVMe cache is insanely fast th-cam.com/video/r_8NNvkj79k/w-d-xo.html
@@SpaceRexWill Your test in that 2x 10GBE video was with DSM 6, right? Now with DSM 7, with the option gone to choose sequential IO caching, is NVMe still a good choice?
With my new testing I actually think a read write cache is a lot better with the New DSM 7 update (came out recently) it works a ton better as far as I can tell and have started switching to it
@@SpaceRexWill I saw in a previous comment about 6 months ago you said that you mostly only recommend read only cache. That has changed with dsm 7?
Tempted to watch this again to count how many times you say "fast" haha
How do you get your performance specs? I have 4 in a raid 5 (DS1819+) but cannot get anywhere near your 600MB. Synology is also scaring me on locking you into drives and memory. This can make it cost twice as much.
Check out the “15 reasons why your synology is slow” video as you may need jumbo frames / to disable smb signing
I am fairly confident that the limitations will only be on 8+ bay desktop units and xs units. It totally sucks, but if it stays there I am staying with Synology just because they are so good
@@SpaceRexWill Only on 8 bays? Should I stick with a 6 bay? Would it have more performance?
Thank you for this video! In DS7 I don't find the option to uncheck the skip sequential I/O, is there one?
It got removed a few months ago by DSM7
@@SpaceRexWill Thanks!
If I don't have 10GBe card on my Ds1522+ ....Nvme will have any improve in speed? Here we have only 5 people using.
You’d get even faster speeds editing videos locally, and syncing your changes to the NAS in the background. I wouldn’t want to be constrained by my network speed for video editing.
I had a spare 970 EVO so I threw it in my DS1621+ cuz why not? I have 6x 8TB IronWolf -- didn't bother running the ssd cache advisor prior to. Wonder if it's worth it for my fileserver.
With NVMe it’s honestly almost always worth it if you just have it lying around
Do you have to install the cache in pairs, is a single 16GB stick any different from 2 x 8GB sticks?
So this is NVMe which is SSD not ram. But other than that if you are doing a read only cache there is no applicable difference between 2x 800 gig and 1x 1.6 TB due to how fast they are. One limitation would be if you have 2 different sizes. The bigger one would act like the size of the smaller one
@@SpaceRexWill Fantastic response, thank you for getting back to me.
My bad for getting values wrong, I knew it wasn’t RAM. Will probably go down the 1TB route rather than 2 x 500GB
Having that NVMe SSD Cache, can you feel the difference if you have HDD VS SDD disks to store the files? Thanks!
If data is already on SSD then its no hlep
How much space should each nvme drive be for heavy 4k video editing, mainly solo user?
Look at the size of one of your projects and that’s about what you should ball park in most cases. The first 100 gigs will do the most
I actually have a DS1618+. I wasn't able to find reliable information if I can use M.2 in this unit.
Any thoughts/information on that?
You would have to get a PCIe card to do so
@@SpaceRexWill Thanks. Is that a m2d18 card I did read something about somewhere?
I know going thru ethernet is more of a real world test but it would have been good to see internal speed, copy/paste within the DSM
I have a video going over testing 2x 10GbE
th-cam.com/video/r_8NNvkj79k/w-d-xo.html
Hi, I can't find the "skip sequential IO" where did it go? I'm running 7.2
It has been removed
You make a point of disabling the "skip sequential i/o" setting. I cannot find this setting in DSM 7. Did Synology remove it?
Yes Synology removed that option
@@SpaceRexWill Does that then affect the value proposition of NVMe cache for video editors working off of a NAS?
Now that is something that I have not yet been able to test. If you are already using the NAS to edit it will surly help but I do not know if its going to be a huge performance impact compared to a local SSD
@@SpaceRexWill Yeah, would be nice to know a bit more about this. Know of an existing resource? (So I don't have to ask around on forums?) ha
...Or maybe you've covered some of these changes to DSM 7? Heh, its all good!
Will, why read only and not read and write? a
Will it work with one nvme, or are two required?
One is fine as long as you are doing read only. you will get 90% the benefit
720+ using RAID 1 as a Plex server, installed 1 250GB NVME for caching: I’m assuming I should do read only?
Yes
Not having much luck with Synology and LACP (LAG). It doesn't seem to act much different than load balancing. Definitely does not double the bandwidth on either 1Gbe or 10 to a single system. You may need to use two machines to saturate it on 10Gb even with it set for LACP. Kind of a red herring.
Yes that's how LACP works. You only get more performance with multiple users. on my test I have a laptop and desktop
Is it possible to set up the SSD cache in a way where only the SSD cache gets the data from my PC directly, and from there the data is written out tothe HDD disks.
My setup:
NAS: DS1621+
HDD in NAS: 4 x Seagate 10TB IronWolf Pro in SHR raid.
Connection between the devices: 2,5Gbe PC -> TP-Link TL-SG108 1Gbe switch -> 1Gbe DS1621+
So 99% of the time what I do I use the NAS only for backup. And I have tons of data which I copy from my PC (tons of small files sadly).
I try to figure out a way how can I utilize to make this faster. Sometimes the backup takes 5 hours because of that many small files.
This is actually called a read write cache and in DSM 7 actually makes a ton more sense. It does just that
@@SpaceRexWill yeah but in a previous video you told you hear horror stories about the read write cache. :D Is it safe by now?
They actually released an awesome new algorithm that fixed pretty much all of those problems.
I still recommend read only for general users as most people are not doing random writes, but if you are doing random writes then read write works great. Planning on getting it up on my primary system soon
Hey could you tell the max speed of wifi transfer from lap/phone to NAS while using SSD?
You will not notice an SSD cache when using WiFi. Max speed I have gotten over WiFi is 70MB/s
@@SpaceRexWill Once i got the same too but some how now for several days only getting 10-11 MB/s (using ds220+ synology with Ssd - WD Red SA 500) any tips?
Hi, thank you for the video, great job! I hope you can help me. Recently, I was able to go to DSM Control and see ip and Mac addresses of the devices on my network having access to my NAS Shared Folder, but now I cannot to find this option... I used this option to limit which devices (PC's, media players, etc.) where granted permissions to see my files (instead of encrypting the folders). Please, help. Also, can I use SKhynix Gold P31 PCIe NVMe Gen3 M.2 2280 Internal SSD to create SSD Cache for read and write on Synology 1821+?
Thank you.
What are you using on your laptop/ desktop for a 10gb connection?
I have a thunderbolt converter for my laptop and 10 gig built in on my desktop
hi I m using 920 Synology NAS with 4hdd and 2 nvme x500gb. plz suggest me should I go nvme catch riad0 or Raid1?
Ready only RAID0
@@SpaceRexWill thanx, 4XHDD= RAID6 and nvme x 2= RAID0 ?
If you have 4HDD raid5
@@SpaceRexWill what if we are using SHR on 4 bay model! Still raid 0 for nvme?
wd blue sn570 are f.e. nvme drives and work well for me
I recently got a DS920+ that can take two NVME SSDs, but it’s only got 1G Ethernet. As a home user (not using any VMs) I don’t think any performance gains I’d see would be worth the cost of adding an SSD cache. Anybody think I’m wrong on that?
With a 1GbE connection there are a couple of workflows that can take advantage of it, but for most home users you would see no advantage
@@SpaceRexWill sounds like editing and reviewing home video on the 920+ might be a case helped by the NVME drives
PSA: Do not use consumer grade NVMe drives as cache! They are not rated to be used like that and will fail prematurely, especially if you allocate their full size. A failing cache assigned to a storage pool can lead to loss of data and volume degradation.
I would actually take it a step further and just not use a read / write cache. Read only caches cannot take out your pool and in my experience give a overall better NAS experience
Ok, I had to say that, copying the same file right again which depends on cache (as the cache is not flushed) is not really convincing. In a working environment your cache have to be big . I can tell that nvme cache with two VM - linux light distro - machines on a 1612+ are performing sometimes worst than without cache...
I am watching this video to see how are you getting 700 MB/s transfer speed over 10G connection?
I have DS1821+ on DSM 7.1 with 10G network, and I am only getting 230MB/s max transfer rate on big movie files going from my Mac to NAS.
NAS is configured for JBOD with read write SSD cache with two 2GB Samsung 990 Pro SSDs (new SSD from Samsung)...
I am trying to get at least 500MB/s transfer rate
Connecting to Macbook over SMB
The JBOD is your issue. With JBOD you only write to one disk at a time which has a max speed of ~200-250 MB/s
@@SpaceRexWill thanks you are correct. I put a RAID 0 in with 2 HDDs and now getting about 450MB/s.
However, my understanding is that since I have a 2TB SSD cache, the data will be written to SSD cache at a faster rate, then simultaneously transfer that data to HDDs at a slower rate.
Meaning the data will be written to SSD cache first before being written to HDDs so that the user will get a write speed much faster than HDD write speed.
The files are big movie files larger than 400GB a file.
Seems like read-write SSD cache is worthless for writing data.
2:00 M.2 does not mean NVMe
math wrong - needs to be *1024
*1000 is MiB
*1024 is MB
#SpaceRexer
Pcie 3 I think.
Please don't say you're going to give links for SSD recommendations and then not follow thru. Most people don't get expensive upgrade sent to their house from Synology.
WD Blue has m.2 SATA and M.2 NVMe versions. Do your research.
That’s why I called it as the SATA m.2
w t f😃
not to be that guy, but: they are fast/they're fast
That is a very good point. Fixed! Thanks
ABE OYE YA TO VIDEO BNA KE DIYA LE YA BAK BAK KR LE
What is the part number of NVMe SSD Cache that you used?