The funny thing is that Mizuki S3 has an almost similar range to Thorns Alter S3. I wonder what happens to the crowd of thicc elites when he's placed in that Bermuda Triangle with other ambushers? XD
thanks for the detailed showcase, and im glad that Ascalon is one of the best op to pair with his S3, as she has 0 block and benefits from both -50%DEF/RES debuff
Mizuki is also good for the non Ascalon havers. I would assume a lot skipped her for Logos/Wisadel. Mizuki also really appreciates the mixed debuffs as his damage is highly mixed
Ambusher and fast redeploy are the best unit for his s3. Ambusher had 0 block and can benefit greatly from the debuff meanwhile fast redeploy can be instantly retreated and making s3 easy to control since the throwable stay after the unit retreated.
You haven't shown that the disk stays on the tile even if the operator he threw them to is retreated/dead! You can use this to "force" form an area when the anchor tiles are too deadly. You can also use this to "shift" the encirclement. E.g. if you deploy Saria and Ascalon in front of him and Horns on his left, he will form a square leaning to the left. If you deploy Gravel to his right, he will ignore Horns and form a square leaning to the right. After retreating Gravel, you have a perfect bombing zone for Horns with some spaces from her.
It's alright, not that amazing honestly. If you want defense shred, Shamare will do a better job for you with better uptime and much easier to use range. People like to naysay Ifrit but she has very similar res shred, 100% uptime and should be considered about equal to Thorns in range (Thorns demands multiple ops deployed in a potentially suboptimal manner and when used with just the straight lines or blocking with a single operator it is straight up equal). You can even just use the two of them together because Thorns also requires the use of two operators as a comparison. His S3 is not that crazy and his S2 is probably better all things considered.
@@yiraw well shamare is good but thorns have more advantages - he produces quite a lot of damage, especially because of the -res debuff - he has the biggest -res debuff of -50% when it reaches 15 seconds - You said Shamare has an advantage in uptime, but it doesn't shamare CD is 30 and the duration is 15 seconds while thorns have a CD of 34 in s3 with a duration of 26 seconds well thorns don't have semi-globals like shamare but he is superior because he is the dps itself with not much uptime and the biggest res debuff so far and needing some operators to make it better is not a weakness because you definitely use a debuffer to help the main dps you even saw in the showcase, ascalon can kill patriot H stage if you just replace thorns with shamare or pramanix she won't be able to kill patriots
@@yiraw well, its not surprising for him to lose against other operators in terms of applying specific debuff effects, what makes his S3 amazing is that he has all of them combined in one skill
@@nuginurohman7613 Shamare's skill is just like Thorns, it recharges the second it is used so it only has an effective 15 second downtime with a 15 second duration. Ifrit has higher res debuffs, it is a flat 40% (44% if pots) but she can also inflict burn (-20 res) and can also just apply an extra flat 20 res down on S3 with 20 second uptime with a 28 second downtime, Ifrit absolutely debuffs more res than Thorns when skill is up. You say he is the DPS itself but Ifrit does more damage and Shamare offers stronger defence focused debuffs (50% atk and def down and then can add on an extra 33% fragile when their HP goes low enough if they're in her range). His autos are bad and he does almost nothing during that 34 second downtime. Funnily enough using him with Ascalon also has issues, she will slow and stall enemies outside of his skill range wasting some of the actual skill DPS and shredding, even that base case partner has downsides. This sort of shred is overkill on most things that aren't bosses and most mixed damage type operators are not boss killers (you have like Qiubai S3 and that's it and only if they can be binded). Using a single type shred with the correct single type DPS will do you better the vast majority of the time.
@@nuginurohman7613shamare s2 recharges while the doll is deployed, so she does have better uptime (50%). furthermore, she can be helidropped by charging her skill and then retreating her for later. when she redeploys, her skill will be immediately available in high difficulty content (cc + is), you likely wont have the luxury of deploying ops to enable thorns s3 due to deploy limits, dp costs, tile limitations, and squad size shamare is generally considered to be better than pramanix because pram's range forces her to deploy close to dangerous enemies; thorns suffers the same problem, especially since his allies must also deploy into danger
Fast redeploy also work. You can deploy gravel > S3> retreat and it still work. But what if he select Ulpianus and you activate his S3 between gap of his summon travel? Does it just cancel or carry over with Ulpian new position?
thorns alchemy is regarded as a unit, whether the operator is retreated or redeploy on other tile, that unit will stay in the same position until his skill ends
My favorite type of operator. One that gets you thinking "How much can I fck around with this kit?" Would've been nice if Phantom's clone can get the tether (I assume it's not gonna attach to summons? I haven't seen a showcase of it if yes). The Bermuda Triangle tactics would've been fun w/ him as the FRD pairing.
Really loving the potential his S3 have as long as you keep in mind what needs to be done to create the best shape possible for the situation. Btw, with that bloated extra range on him from his S3 passive, does it also carry over to Muelsyse clone and give you a ranged summon that can shoot half the screen?
Well it seems that all of Thorns alter skills are pretty good but nothing amazing. In short, if you pull him because you like him you'll get some good use out of him, but there's no real reason to pull him metawise, since he doesn't really do anything that special.
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Thorns Alter S1/S2 video next
So basically, he's the best Ambusher supporter. Perfect. Both my Mizuki and Ascalon will greatly appreciate him.
Not just Ambusher, Liberators are great teammates to him too, and that's very spicy combo
Just grab the fast-redeploy
@@nothingtoseehere9279 I use Ambushers a lot, so no thanks.
The funny thing is that Mizuki S3 has an almost similar range to Thorns Alter S3. I wonder what happens to the crowd of thicc elites when he's placed in that Bermuda Triangle with other ambushers? XD
thanks for the detailed showcase, and im glad that Ascalon is one of the best op to pair with his S3, as she has 0 block and benefits from both -50%DEF/RES debuff
Mizuki is also good for the non Ascalon havers. I would assume a lot skipped her for Logos/Wisadel. Mizuki also really appreciates the mixed debuffs as his damage is highly mixed
Any ambusher or operator that can reduce their block to 0 is good. Mizuki gets a ton of mileage with him due to mixed dmg especially s1.
one thing you did not mention is her slow, she keeps the enemies within range of the alchemity unit to deal more
true
Dayum 3 vids in a row from Night? Its not even Christmas yet. Didn't know it also works on block
Ambusher and fast redeploy are the best unit for his s3. Ambusher had 0 block and can benefit greatly from the debuff meanwhile fast redeploy can be instantly retreated and making s3 easy to control since the throwable stay after the unit retreated.
You haven't shown that the disk stays on the tile even if the operator he threw them to is retreated/dead! You can use this to "force" form an area when the anchor tiles are too deadly.
You can also use this to "shift" the encirclement. E.g. if you deploy Saria and Ascalon in front of him and Horns on his left, he will form a square leaning to the left. If you deploy Gravel to his right, he will ignore Horns and form a square leaning to the right. After retreating Gravel, you have a perfect bombing zone for Horns with some spaces from her.
That's cool and all, but who's Horns? I didn't know Thorns and Horn were like that...😆
@victoryerz2030 sorry I forgot we only have one Horn 😔
@@straypaperTime to wait for Horn alter with a full mecha suit.
Mr. Strimmer is back in his content bag
Thanks for the s3 showcase this is definitely the best by far
Glad to see another skill like Shamare S2 and Silence S2 where they charge while the skill is doing the thing.
his S3 is amazing, good uptime, over 50k AOE arts dmg, buffs the dmg of other ops to the another level and makes them super tanky
It's alright, not that amazing honestly. If you want defense shred, Shamare will do a better job for you with better uptime and much easier to use range. People like to naysay Ifrit but she has very similar res shred, 100% uptime and should be considered about equal to Thorns in range (Thorns demands multiple ops deployed in a potentially suboptimal manner and when used with just the straight lines or blocking with a single operator it is straight up equal). You can even just use the two of them together because Thorns also requires the use of two operators as a comparison. His S3 is not that crazy and his S2 is probably better all things considered.
@@yiraw well shamare is good
but thorns have more advantages
- he produces quite a lot of damage, especially because of the -res debuff
- he has the biggest -res debuff of -50% when it reaches 15 seconds
- You said Shamare has an advantage in uptime, but it doesn't
shamare CD is 30 and the duration is 15 seconds
while thorns have a CD of 34 in s3 with a duration of 26 seconds
well thorns don't have semi-globals like shamare
but he is superior because he is the dps itself with not much uptime
and the biggest res debuff so far
and needing some operators to make it better is not a weakness because you definitely use a debuffer to help the main dps
you even saw in the showcase, ascalon can kill patriot H stage
if you just replace thorns with shamare or pramanix she won't be able to kill patriots
@@yiraw well, its not surprising for him to lose against other operators in terms of applying specific debuff effects, what makes his S3 amazing is that he has all of them combined in one skill
@@nuginurohman7613 Shamare's skill is just like Thorns, it recharges the second it is used so it only has an effective 15 second downtime with a 15 second duration. Ifrit has higher res debuffs, it is a flat 40% (44% if pots) but she can also inflict burn (-20 res) and can also just apply an extra flat 20 res down on S3 with 20 second uptime with a 28 second downtime, Ifrit absolutely debuffs more res than Thorns when skill is up. You say he is the DPS itself but Ifrit does more damage and Shamare offers stronger defence focused debuffs (50% atk and def down and then can add on an extra 33% fragile when their HP goes low enough if they're in her range). His autos are bad and he does almost nothing during that 34 second downtime. Funnily enough using him with Ascalon also has issues, she will slow and stall enemies outside of his skill range wasting some of the actual skill DPS and shredding, even that base case partner has downsides. This sort of shred is overkill on most things that aren't bosses and most mixed damage type operators are not boss killers (you have like Qiubai S3 and that's it and only if they can be binded). Using a single type shred with the correct single type DPS will do you better the vast majority of the time.
@@nuginurohman7613shamare s2 recharges while the doll is deployed, so she does have better uptime (50%). furthermore, she can be helidropped by charging her skill and then retreating her for later. when she redeploys, her skill will be immediately available
in high difficulty content (cc + is), you likely wont have the luxury of deploying ops to enable thorns s3 due to deploy limits, dp costs, tile limitations, and squad size
shamare is generally considered to be better than pramanix because pram's range forces her to deploy close to dangerous enemies; thorns suffers the same problem, especially since his allies must also deploy into danger
Fast redeploy also work. You can deploy gravel > S3> retreat and it still work.
But what if he select Ulpianus and you activate his S3 between gap of his summon travel? Does it just cancel or carry over with Ulpian new position?
It'll likely just stay on the original Ulpianus tile as he's considered to be retreated and then deployed again
thorns alchemy is regarded as a unit, whether the operator is retreated or redeploy on other tile, that unit will stay in the same position until his skill ends
Nice! S3 is now easy to understand. Thanks for showcase 👍
My favorite type of operator. One that gets you thinking "How much can I fck around with this kit?"
Would've been nice if Phantom's clone can get the tether (I assume it's not gonna attach to summons? I haven't seen a showcase of it if yes). The Bermuda Triangle tactics would've been fun w/ him as the FRD pairing.
Really loving the potential his S3 have as long as you keep in mind what needs to be done to create the best shape possible for the situation.
Btw, with that bloated extra range on him from his S3 passive, does it also carry over to Muelsyse clone and give you a ranged summon that can shoot half the screen?
Most probably no
Thats the exact same range as Deadeye snipers though, they do also have way better stats than him
Good showcase
It's actually not as complicated as it initially lets on. Easily applicable and not a lot of drawbacks.
thanks
Oh yea ambushers, I was actually picturing the skill with Mlynar/Tequila but I'm not sure how good the cycle time is with that combo.
Mr. Strimmer active again and it only took another Thorns showcase. I clapped
Thorns goat
Common Ascalon W
2:34 why is Spike and Ascalon such a good combo?
Because the -block priority ambusher or liberator are the best pair for him because they 0 block count
Try s3 with ulpianus
No way neu vijyo
woah kinda cool that he sinply throws the unit and then gains sp while the alchemy unit is still activated? makes uptime much less awkward
DoT dmg?
yes
And the greater point is this skill have instant recharge sp like eyja alter skill 2
nice ascalon showcase mr strimmer 👍
☝🤓
Damn Thorn alter SO GOOD that Night is making 2 more video about him.
Too bad OG Thorns is SO BAD
Well it seems that all of Thorns alter skills are pretty good but nothing amazing. In short, if you pull him because you like him you'll get some good use out of him, but there's no real reason to pull him metawise, since he doesn't really do anything that special.