11. Recursion Theorem and Logic

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ต.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 17

  • @Konstantin_.
    @Konstantin_. 3 ปีที่แล้ว +38

    was watching some gaming vids, fell asleep with autoplay on and woke up to this

    • @Zero_Contradictions
      @Zero_Contradictions ปีที่แล้ว +4

      This must've been an awesome video to wake up too.

  • @ParthKohli
    @ParthKohli 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Incredibly fascinating! Probably the best course I have seen on this channel.

  • @eugut
    @eugut 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    as reference to self reproduction part see Douglas Hofstadter's Godel Escher Bach( self-reference, self-reproduction)

  • @egomezpele
    @egomezpele 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    20:56 From a "practical programing point of view" all this comes from the diference between "read the string" and "execute/print the string" (B "figures out" A by execution of the string B which is on the tape). But what confuses me about this "simple" example, is that you need someone to give you the function out of the system (or ) .. It's like you are running the program in an execution environment whit some built in functions that you can use. The turing machine only reads/writes but it doesn't have built in the execute/print instruction ..

    • @egomezpele
      @egomezpele 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Ok, the lemma seems to be the built in Print function availabe..

  • @dtung2008
    @dtung2008 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    This is a lecture with many confusing proofs.
    To prove SELF, we can use a standard programming language to open its own source code and print it. So using the lemma, Pw = "Print w on the tape and halt". I claim P_ is a SELF program. This is almost the same as later recursive proofs that defines TM R = "Get own description then print ".
    I was confused that why the size of MIN_{TM} is infinite necessary means there is an arbitrary length TM. But I think the reason is the number of any finite length TM is finite, so infinite number of MIN_{TM) must include any length TM. But then the gap will be why MIN_{TM} is infinite? It probably is easy to create a minimum TM of any length such as print a sequence of random numbers, but any better argument?
    Overall with R = "Get own description , ... " recursive proof become easier to construct. So to facilitate easier construction of proofs one probably is worthwhile to study what are allowed (macro) actions inside a Turing machine, such as "get own description", "run", "enumerate", "print"?

    • @Vikingofriz
      @Vikingofriz 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      You can’t just read a program’s source, that’s basically cheating as now you ask the OS to give you that code. The whole point of all this is that a program can self replicate without relying on any other external mechanisms, just by itself, only having the ability to write something. You can read a wiki article about quines which explores this topic.

  • @yeni_nick
    @yeni_nick 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    1:14:50 i have been thinking about this question for days which is related to pset2 #4 [projection of decidable iff T-recognizable].How can we be sure that proofs itself doesn't cause looping.In the sense of projection problem How can i be sure that recognizable T is trying new inputs and not wasting its time with a pointless circles in specific pair of (x,y)

  • @Zero_Contradictions
    @Zero_Contradictions ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Are there true statements that cannot be proven, but we can reason that they are true anyway, without using the Recursion Theorem?

    • @kannix386
      @kannix386 ปีที่แล้ว

      i think all of those unprovable, but true statements are non-constructive, meaning they will never be of any relevance for what we humans use maths for.

    • @ahbarahad3203
      @ahbarahad3203 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Isn't that like the Godels Incompleteness Theorem

  • @bkling123
    @bkling123 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm confused by the proof of the fixed-point theorem.
    What happens if f is the identity transformation? Then, R will go into an infinite loop.
    Or, what if f adds the line "print 'hello'" or adds 1 to whatever R computes? The proof doesn't seem to cover that possibility either.

    • @dtung2008
      @dtung2008 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      If f is an identity transformation, that only means every points are fixed points.
      You can pick any f, but you can not specify R. R has to be specific as shown in the proof. Simulate and simulate (S, w) in the proof did give the same result.
      But I agree, if you want to implement the same thing on a standard computer, it will be very confusing. So it probably is fair to ask what does such theorem really mean?

  • @ahbarahad3203
    @ahbarahad3203 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Binging this shit like its Netflix
    Aint got enough braincells to nail it
    Gotta keep going to stay off the streets

  • @muhammadhelmy5575
    @muhammadhelmy5575 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    31:25

  • @esepecesito
    @esepecesito 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Companion of this lecture, could be this video: th-cam.com/video/6avJHaC3C2U/w-d-xo.html