@@coffeeblogua Even he is a coffee Q grader, the experiment should be done in blind condition. Better he tasted the coffee by not knowing the grinder. It would be more trustful
Well, the tasting was only one part of the video and since we didn't want to conclude what grinder is better (that's quite obvious from our selection) we didn't find blind tasting too important. Perhaps, we can structure the video differently next time. Thanks for your opinion.
@@EuropeanCoffeeTrip I second the idea of having bind-tasting in place of this biased-tasting. You only know that the difference is obvious when other factors are taken out of the equation.
@@iastyle7 Sigh, make that a third. I love their AeroPress videos--which admittedly don't need as much rigor--but you really want to be as objective as possible where it's needed.
I own all three grinders (well i have hario mini plus not the g) and there is a huge difference between hario and the other two. For me the taste of both timemore and comandante is hardly distinguishable. But if I try to grind for espresso, (under 12 clicks on timemore) the burrs start touching each other and makes this weird friction sound on timemore. If I want to carry a grinder while traveling that would be timemore. if i need an all around, best quality grinder that would be comandante. if I am short on money, I'd go hario, definitely better than pre-ground coffee .
@@EuropeanCoffeeTrip You can also test timemore models with titanium burrs like Slim S or Nano S so that your espresso comparison would be fairer :)) (( from someone who just bought his first comandante after a long search :)) )
There's been a study suggesting that slightly bigger grinds for espresso are actually better. Look it up on Google. It was mathematically estimated IIRC.
With the Timemore, the fixed burr part is prob missaligned... it can be improved with some tweeking, mine is touching when i go to 7-6 clicks after i tweeked it.
I got a C2 for $30+ bucks new, commandante easily costs $350 in my country after tax. Well, it's the C2 all the way, I'll be sipping my coffee knowing there is no hole in my wallet.
I bought that timemore almost a year ago and i absolutely happy with that. Its fine for me and the price is not so high. If you drink filter coffee and do not make espresso at home it will be nice
@@FathirUroe98 went from a cheap off brand $10 grinder (skerton copy) to C2, since i've seen multiple reviews of Hario grinders having stripping problems. the difference in quality was very noticeable, only drawback was static but thats easily solvable with a drop or two of water.
Did you go with the C2 or the slim/nano? I am at a crossroads because I know the slim/nano have all metal construction (even the adjustment screw) and the C2 has plastic, but I am wondering if I am overthinking it and if I should just go with the c2
I liked the video, but the taste test at the end is invalid because it is not blind. Your conclusions that the more expensive grinders may be more durable, grind faster, grind small enough for expresso, and produce a more consistent grind seem valid. However, you provide no evidence that this results in a different final result (the taste) without a blind test. When making a decision on what grinder to buy, an important part of that decision is whether the resulting coffee actually tastes different.
God, human beings refuse to feel satisfied until they have wasted money on the supposed benefits of the "premium" version of whatever matter fancies their self-indulgent habit. Is the step up (no pun intended) in output-quality worth it from a thirty-dollar hand-grinder to a four-hundred-dollar alternative? No. No, it fucking is not. Even if you can pick apart the product in a blinded taste-test, fucking it is not. But, if you already have bought into the conclusion, you're unlikely to be dissuaded therefrom by Internet Person #1138.
I think you will eventually upgrade to the Comandante. If you can afford it never mind the cheaper end of the grinders. Ceramic burrs are not successfull with coffee beans.
I have had the comandante for 4 days. It has changed my life completely. It outperformes my wilfa swart in every way. It is so satisfying to use with so little resistance. For v60 it takes about 20 sek for 15 grams and about 45 sek for 40 grams. And the consistency is like that of an ek. Not to speak about the great build quality. If you can afford it, it is a great deal. If I had to sell my tv to buy a comandante, it would do it. No question. In fact I sold my espressomachine to buy a comandante grinder. What I would like you to consider, is what color you would like your grinder in. I went with Sonja red, and I am in love 🤩
Couple of problems I had with this video 1. no blind test 2. tester should not have made coffee. Like problem 1 his expierence will affect his disicion. 3. Should have meassured with kruve sifter and its gram. Comandante c40 and timemore would not have that much difference in tasting drip coffee. Since tester has seen and made coffee he knows the answer before tasting coffee. This is quite unfair and should not think it as correct.
There's good reason for which many tests are conducted -- as much as they pragmatically can be -- with blinding. Such motivation seems not to be a concern of the people who've produced this segment.
Hario smart G works best with the motor and both grinder and motor can be replaced at a relatively cheap price. Don't recommend using the manual crank. The grinded coffee with the motor is consistent and smooth and it is good and convenient for me without spending a bomb on good manual grinders
Not useful....Should of been a blind test....Grind the coffee from all three units, Make the coffee from the 3 grinds and then tell us what the best tasting coffee was.....This is not a fair video.....
As someone who had upgraded from Hario mini mill to Timemore C2, I can attest to the benefits of having a good grinder. My previous brews, prior using C2 to grind, were never consistent, especially on V60. That's why I preferred Aeropress as my go to brewing apparatus. After C2, I can enjoy consistent brews whether it's on V60 or Aeropress. Comandante C40 is my "grail" grinder, but I will probably be content with C2 for the next 1-2 years. Spending $$$ for another grinder requires significant financial commitment on my part 😁
@@bedahal-bedah243 what we think is the big difference (when having these grinders in hand and using them) is that Comandante is built to last for life (or generations) and I don't think that many of us will be using c2 in 5 or 10 years. Also, we used a higher version of Timemore grinder. Slim has different material and burrs!
Hey there guys! Thanks for your support and this informative video! We hope that everyone finds a way to enjoy their coffee and coffee making - that's the main thing :). All the best from Munich!
Hi there @@MichaelMcDougle and thanks for your interest in our grinders! We have been blessed with extreme global demand this year (partly pandemic related of course too), which has meant that stock availability is often very limited, since it sells out so fast. We are sorry about that and are working really really hard to sustainably increase our capacity and get more out there! Our number one priority always remains product quality, so this growth is gradual. I would recommend checking out European dealers who ship internationally - you can find a list on our Website for example : comandantegrinder.com/index.html#dealer I hope that helps, and that you find one soon :). Thanks again! Best, Joe
I"d like to try your grinder but the price is costly and can't even afford one. I'm using timemore C2 for my mobile coffee business for the time being.
You should have arranged blinded tasting, because otherwise his personal bias is involved. He clearly is biased toward the more expensive grinder, so it should've been blinded tasting. This looks like an ad for Commandante.
When I first got my Timemore C2 I absolutely hated unscrewing it, but luckily that noise goes away after a few times of use. It's absolutely the best grinder for the money, especially since I paid $52 for it on Primeday.
@@alyoshakaramazov1537 Nope, unfortunately the Timemore in this video was the "Slim" version not the "Slim Plus" and the only different between the Slim and the C2 aside from the shape is the build on the upper body, other than that they share the same burr sets and the same adjustment settings. The Slim Plus would have the E&B burr or the 6 point titanium coated burr.
Me after hearing the sounds of each grinder: ~walks into cafe' -*listens menacingly* So you have chosen the Commandante. Is this the power of an enemy stand?
Well, Comandante is our sponsor so we know their grinders the best. That’s why we can use them and compare them. Other grinders in the category are great too, we just don’t know them well enough.
I went from a Hario Mini Mill to the C40. I was expecting it to be an improvement, but really the difference is night and day. Would recommend just skipping the first step and buying a decent grinder to begin with.
Interesting.. at the end of the day it’s about consistent grind size which really makes sense. The optimal length of time extracting for one size will be different for another so it’ll be hard to get perfect
But I think its good to start at the bottom and just enjoy your coffee journey slowly, this way you appreciate how good the upgrades and you kinda enjoy your coffee more cause you've experienced the cheap ones. IMO if you're a beginner in specialty coffee its good to start at the cheap grinders and just upgrade even if you can afford the most expensive grinder already that's what happened to me and I love the experience.
@@travisbrangalvan2613 I just had bought the hario Mini Slim Plus and I feel like it's a waste of money knowing there are better options, but I don't regret, I get decente cups of coffee. Even thought, it's hard and epensive to Buy a commandante from where I am (Uruguay) it cost about $650 because of the taxes and burocracy papers.
Actually, we started at 20 but went down to 18 clicks for Timemore Slim. As you know, it really depends on coffee, pouring technique (and many more things 😅) to pick the right grind size.
I used to have the Hario Slim Pro, which lasted only a month. The day it died I freaked out and ordered the Comandante - expensive as hell but I've never regret it :)
I think the Timemore C2 would be a great options to those who want a good manual grinder with the similar price point with the Hario ($45 - $55) but the C2 have a better consistency that close to the Timemore Slim, so it's a good value for money hand grinder and you can spent more money for a good coffee beans.
I am eyeing the Timemore C2 on Aliexpress now. 50-55 euros with the discounts applied, shipped. Still unsure if I should get it or save up for the Comandante and keep using my cheapo Delonghi electric grinder in the meantime. My Aeropress is forgiving, after all..
As Ivan mentioned, C2 is a different model (also burr material is slightly different as far as I know). It should be a good budget hand grinder though so it can be a more portable alternative if your budget is limited.
I was exclusively using Hario Slim Mill then Smart G before my Smart G broke down for awhile. I went to buy a Comandante as my current Hario produces rather inconsistent grind which affected my extraction. The difference in taste was very significant at least for me when I first tried Comandante - taste way smoother and the taste notes came out more distinctively vs Hario. Also, the grind experience was so much better on the Comandante as it was smooth and quick, Smart G requires more effort and my arms get rather sore (so yeah I also got the Smart G Mobile Mill Stick to make my life easier) and the grind is so much consistent in Comandante. so yeah from then on I never looked back... Comandante for me. But I like smart G for its portability tbh
Very nice comparison. 4 months ago I bought Indonesian local grinder called Latina Sumbawa (maybe it's in one class for the hario one / entry level). For those kind of price and that's the first time I learnt coffee, the taste was quite ok. Then for about 2 months ago I bought the timemore chestnut like in your video. Using timemore, I started to taste much better coffee, because I think the timemore extracted coffee better than the previous one. Then watching your video today, I think it is the time for me to invest on comandante grinder. Such a helpful comparison. I hope I can save my money for it. Nice video! 😁
OMG! That's exactly what I've been looking for! I've just recently gravitated towards investing into commandante and waiting it to arrive in Ukraine by official local dealer. I was slightly concerned about that much money to spend on it, but I'm already drinking a specialty coffee and I don't like how it's been ruined by my current grinder (hario skerton pro). It's decent grinder but it doesn't produce high quality grind. Now I'm totally sure that I've made a right choice! Because I felt like I was just wasting good coffee. It was extremely hard for me to dial in my grinder for a good taste. I'm getting like 3 to 5 max good cups out of the 350g bag of coffee beans. Thanks for your content guys! Cheers
Same for me, planning to buy a Comandante in Ukraine after 3 months of using Hario Mini Slim Pro. The Hario one is unfortunately awful: it opens up accidentally and the burr is extremely unstable, so I get something from a very fine dust to some coarse French Press style bites. What about your Comandante? Did you already get it?
Much awaited video describing about difference between the economical and expensive hand coffee grinder is about to be released in next 21 minutes.... Thnakyou for bringing it up!
Thanks for the comparison... I'm absolutely IN LOVE with coffee, but I have a HUGE issue with these kind of videos, and is the sound of people swallowing. Is so freaking disgusting. Is it just me?
Nice video! I have been using the Timemore for about a year and happy with it. I’m keen to try the C40 though and see how much it will improve my daily coffee experience (V60 and Aeropress). Btw, I believe you mean seconds not minutes for grind time?
I would have added a super cheap 10 euros amazon grinder to the bunch ...just for fun ...obviously the conclusion would have been the same. Agree on everything. Nice one!
Considering that the pre-ground filter coffee I use doesn't leave any mud in the paper, and the Hario does, is it even an upgrade to go from pre-ground to Hario? It seems like a 40€ downgrade with mud and big boulders left over. Genuine question.
Loved the video but I really thing the sweet spot for hand grinders is in the price range between the timemore and the comandante. I would love to see a good review from the 1zpresso line of grinders maybe you guys may consider that
Our friend at The Coffee Chronicler did one review: th-cam.com/video/KWs80A67joc/w-d-xo.html. We haven't played with the grinder yet but it looks solid!
Just, please, I am missing testing grinding for espresso - that is the finest and a high quality demanding job..... Did you try that level in some other video?
If I would start making espresso at home, using a Cafelat Robot or maybe even a Flair 58, would the Comandante grind good enough espresso? I've heard they need a good theoretically espresso-focused grinder. Does the Comandante produce espresso grounds as precise and consistent, for example, as the Niche, or which grinders would you suggest? Also, is grinding much slower on the Comandante, especially for espresso? Meanwhile I'm still using a Hario Slim Mini Plus.
well.. grinder is pain in the ass.. now i just go buy coffee bean at starbuck and told them to grind my coffee bean. tell them what you desire, for example "espresso" grind. then you will get it without no charge. now my coffee just taste like the starbuck coffee itself. lol.
@@erizheizlan My local roaster has a spectacular grinder, produces ground coffee that tastes way better than my cheap hand grinder. The day I bring it home. Already the second or third day I'd rather have fresh ground from my cheap grinder. Fresh ground is worth the effort unless I'm in a real hurry.
There's no any sense in not blind tasting. You can use standard double blind method. The tester not only does not have to know what he is drinking, he does not have to be in direct contact with the person who makes the coffee and know what is what.
I don't think the average person would notice the difference in taste. However, the average person would notice the difference in quality of the grinder.
Good point, it's much easier to see the difference in the material and manufacturing. I would argue that a taste difference between "cheap" vs "expensive" grinder category is noticeable also for a regular person. We should try though, perhaps it's a good idea for the next video.
i like the way this video was done even though it wasn't a blind test . people could still have doubts if the blind test was honest . so i think the video helped people decide . i have a timemore c2 and am quite pleased with it for under $75.00 . but knowing the way i roll , i will probably wind up with the Comandante C40 if i can hide it from my wife .
@@squaremile because I found a good deal on c40, so I sold my 1zpresso and went with c40. 1zpresso was a good manual grinder , good built quality, reasonably priced too
@@2000mipo I've read pretty consistently that midrange hand grinders like Timemore C2 and 1Zpresso Q2 are better than the encore in terms of grind quality. They're less expensive than the encore because you aren't paying for electronics/motors, and of course you have to manually hand-grind the coffee which some dislike. Considering the Timemore lineup is supposed to outclass the encore, I'd expect the Commandante to easily outclass it as well. ^the other commenter is right, Virtuoso plus is a better comparison to the Commandante but I haven't done any research on that.
I considered buying c40, but it was too much in terms of price for home brewing, so I ended up buying timemore c2 and brewista kettle. No regrets whatsoever but i did get separate grinder for espresso, handgriding this fine is too much pain in the back.
I own a Comandante and love using it but sometimes I think about buying a Baratza Forte BG just to improve the taste. But the fact that a Q-Grader and Champion only has good things about the Comandante to say and the fact that the Comandante is often used at Championships makes me question that idea. Would I even be able to taste a difference? Would it be better or just different? Would I pay three times the price of the Comandante for a 5-10% increase in taste? Maybe I should just forget that silly idea and be happy with my Comandante.
I don’t have hard data but I wouldn’t expect better results from Forte BG. If you want to step up from Comandante with an electric grinder, you would need to pick higher-end grinders IMO. If you love using the Comandante (and hand grinding is not an issue, there are also motors like Hario Solo to solve it now) - I would save money for more tasty coffees instead of looking for another grinder.
@@EuropeanCoffeeTrip Thanks for the clear words, having read that I can now forget about the Forte BG idea. Or the higher-end grinders you speak of which are even more expensive. Do you have an opinion on the OE Apex by any chance?
I used to bring porlex to work, but since i could afford comandante n taste the difference, i left my porlex and bring comandante + aeropress go every single day to office.. 😂
I had a Hario Slim (a model much older than Smart G) as my first hand grinder. Since I also brew coffee for my 3 roommates, I had to grind 36g coffee beans everytime (each person had a measly 140ml cup of pourover coffee). It took so much time and elbow grease that after a few months I simply said "screw it, I'm never going to touch any hand grinder" and bought an electric coffee grinder instead. Unfortunately that means I missed out the Comandante and spent more money on a electric grinder with lower grind quality. Honestly, I think anyone who wants to make specialty coffee their hobby should skip Hario grinders (every model of them and anything cheaper) entirely and spend a bit more on a better grinder, especially when they live outside Japan where the Japanese coffee tools are more expensive (for instance, Smart G is sold for 45€ in Europe but 20€ in Japan). OTOH, for anyone who just wants coffee better than supermarket coffee, Hario grinders are still better than blade grinders and pre-ground coffee.
I used to grind with LATINA SUMBAWA, than doing some experiments and now i have Comandante c40 which i love a lot for my daily grinder. So start with low budget, then you'll realise how proper grinder could affect your cup of coffee. Just enjoy this black journey!
Another good option in the midprice category is the Turkish brand Molent Tools, with their Molent G50 grinder. I got one recently and I'm more than impressed with the results.
I used both ends in this video. Hario smart g is not pleasant in general. Plastic body broke once and shattered once but I can't blame them since I put hard paper between outer burr and body and toilet paper between axle and inner burr. Yes, there is that much space between them. Grind consistency is not achieveable whether grinding for Turkish coffee, cold brew or in between. If these matters does not bother you then go for it. So I bought Comandante after my Hario smart g. I am yet to see any real problems with it. Cleaning and gripping is definitely harder since it is bigger but the grind consistency is way more better. I think it is going to last forever but time will tell. I have not heard anyone that has a fatal problem with Comandante. This is the one to buy.
Thanks for this video. This is exactly what I wanted to see. I especially liked being able to see the differences in the grinds in the bed after brewing. That gave me a good understanding of what the differences in the grinds were.
Can you grind counter-clockwise with these grinders? I am left handed I grab with my right hand and naturally turn counterclockwise? I won't buy it if I have to grind clockwise.
From my experience with the Timemore, unfortunately you can't grind counter-clockwise, and I think the other would doo the same since the burr shape and pattern designed to grind clockwise.
Hello guys! I have two questions. Have you ever tried or plan on reviewing 1zpresso hand grinders? Specifically K line, JE line or jx pro? Also, the Timemore Slim and nano both can be bought with a better burr they are called Slim S, for example. Could you swap that burr for the better one and try it on espresso? Or compare jx pro vs good burr Slim? Since they are the same price and are petty much competing as the best lower price espresso hand grinders. Thanks, I really like your channel.
You can read the article on bitterness we did with a food scientist: europeancoffeetrip.com/what-makes-coffee-taste-bitter As usual, many things in coffee are too complex. As I said in the video, our goal in the video wasn’t to show what grinder is better but what’s the difference between price categories - the grind consistency is only one factor to consider.
I think some of these grinders might be more suited towards espresso grind, so might not give a complete picture unless you're just wanting a grinder for pour over type coffees. I think the Comandante is good for both espresso and drip it seems though. I'm surprised the cheaper Hario one sounded like it made a pretty decent cup based on his initial description of it (before trying the others) after seeing how the grinds had boulders in it, I have a similar grinder (Kyrocera brand) and I think it would probably give similar results at the coarse end, but it works well at espresso grind level.
Hi Ales, love your work and this is another great video. It would've been great if we could see photos of the grind comparisons between the three grinders!
I was thinking of buying a new hand grinder and I'm between timemore c2 and the xeoleo(or haanzhall, both are the same), because it's the only ones that I can buy through AliExpress (Amazon here in Spain doesn't have medium-high quality hand grinders), so which one should I choose????
@@frederickateng3779 but the aliexpress products are the same (or at least very similar) to the official one? the difference between the official with shipment and the aliexpress is 60 €(60 € aliex-120€ offic), should i take the risk with a provider with 300 sales on aliexpress?
I would expect some specialty coffee roasters selling Timemore grinders (and other brands) through their sites in Spain. No idea about Xeoleo (and similar). C2 has already a good "budget grinder" reputation in the community.
Its better to have a blind tasting. Knowing the grinder price will surely influence the judgement.
For Q grader? I’m sure it’s kinda obvious for him)
@@coffeeblogua there are grades in coffee tasting?
@@sahirdiesh6386 Q grader is a professional coffee “taster”. And there is not much of them on Earth)
@@coffeeblogua wow cool
@@coffeeblogua Even he is a coffee Q grader, the experiment should be done in blind condition. Better he tasted the coffee by not knowing the grinder. It would be more trustful
I would be more trustful in the opinion if it was a blind taste test
Well, the tasting was only one part of the video and since we didn't want to conclude what grinder is better (that's quite obvious from our selection) we didn't find blind tasting too important. Perhaps, we can structure the video differently next time. Thanks for your opinion.
@@vihanjain6975 no need to watch the videos if you find them useless.
@@EuropeanCoffeeTrip I second the idea of having bind-tasting in place of this biased-tasting. You only know that the difference is obvious when other factors are taken out of the equation.
@@iastyle7 Sigh, make that a third. I love their AeroPress videos--which admittedly don't need as much rigor--but you really want to be as objective as possible where it's needed.
A professional taste tester doesn't need to rely on a blind taste test.
I own all three grinders (well i have hario mini plus not the g) and there is a huge difference between hario and the other two. For me the taste of both timemore and comandante is hardly distinguishable. But if I try to grind for espresso, (under 12 clicks on timemore) the burrs start touching each other and makes this weird friction sound on timemore.
If I want to carry a grinder while traveling that would be timemore. if i need an all around, best quality grinder that would be comandante. if I am short on money, I'd go hario, definitely better than pre-ground coffee .
Thanks Kerem, agree with that! We didn’t test it properly for espresso but that would be our expectation too.
@@EuropeanCoffeeTrip You can also test timemore models with titanium burrs like Slim S or Nano S so that your espresso comparison would be fairer :))
(( from someone who just bought his first comandante after a long search :)) )
There's been a study suggesting that slightly bigger grinds for espresso are actually better. Look it up on Google. It was mathematically estimated IIRC.
With the Timemore, the fixed burr part is prob missaligned... it can be improved with some tweeking, mine is touching when i go to 7-6 clicks after i tweeked it.
I got a C2 for $30+ bucks new, commandante easily costs $350 in my country after tax. Well, it's the C2 all the way, I'll be sipping my coffee knowing there is no hole in my wallet.
I bought that timemore almost a year ago and i absolutely happy with that. Its fine for me and the price is not so high. If you drink filter coffee and do not make espresso at home it will be nice
how about comparing it to hario? do you have any hand grinders to be compared? I looking forward to buy chesnut c2
I love the Timemore. It's been a huge difference maker from the cheap one I originally bought.
@@FathirUroe98 went from a cheap off brand $10 grinder (skerton copy) to C2, since i've seen multiple reviews of Hario grinders having stripping problems.
the difference in quality was very noticeable, only drawback was static but thats easily solvable with a drop or two of water.
@@saccharin6525 thank you, i believe static is an okay for home brewer
Did you go with the C2 or the slim/nano? I am at a crossroads because I know the slim/nano have all metal construction (even the adjustment screw) and the C2 has plastic, but I am wondering if I am overthinking it and if I should just go with the c2
sponsor wins.....
I always wanted to see a Kinu vs Comandante comparison.
James Hoffman has done it. Check it out
blind test will be better- for tasting especially - anyway great channel
I liked the video, but the taste test at the end is invalid because it is not blind. Your conclusions that the more expensive grinders may be more durable, grind faster, grind small enough for expresso, and produce a more consistent grind seem valid. However, you provide no evidence that this results in a different final result (the taste) without a blind test. When making a decision on what grinder to buy, an important part of that decision is whether the resulting coffee actually tastes different.
God, human beings refuse to feel satisfied until they have wasted money on the supposed benefits of the "premium" version of whatever matter fancies their self-indulgent habit. Is the step up (no pun intended) in output-quality worth it from a thirty-dollar hand-grinder to a four-hundred-dollar alternative? No. No, it fucking is not. Even if you can pick apart the product in a blinded taste-test, fucking it is not. But, if you already have bought into the conclusion, you're unlikely to be dissuaded therefrom by Internet Person #1138.
Timely as I am currently deciding whether to buy the expensive Comandante or just opt for the cheaper brands.
I think you will eventually upgrade to the Comandante. If you can afford it never mind the cheaper end of the grinders. Ceramic burrs are not successfull with coffee beans.
Check out the 1zpresso Jx-Pro
Apollo or kinu eventually. C40 is over rated.
@@officialJjVLim JX-Pro is better at half the price imo, Commandante is overpriced.
I have had the comandante for 4 days. It has changed my life completely. It outperformes my wilfa swart in every way. It is so satisfying to use with so little resistance. For v60 it takes about 20 sek for 15 grams and about 45 sek for 40 grams. And the consistency is like that of an ek. Not to speak about the great build quality. If you can afford it, it is a great deal. If I had to sell my tv to buy a comandante, it would do it. No question. In fact I sold my espressomachine to buy a comandante grinder. What I would like you to consider, is what color you would like your grinder in. I went with Sonja red, and I am in love 🤩
Couple of problems I had with this video
1. no blind test
2. tester should not have made coffee. Like problem 1 his expierence will affect his disicion.
3. Should have meassured with kruve sifter and its gram.
Comandante c40 and timemore would not have that much difference in tasting drip coffee. Since tester has seen and made coffee he knows the answer before tasting coffee. This is quite unfair and should not think it as correct.
There's good reason for which many tests are conducted -- as much as they pragmatically can be -- with blinding. Such motivation seems not to be a concern of the people who've produced this segment.
Hario smart G works best with the motor and both grinder and motor can be replaced at a relatively cheap price. Don't recommend using the manual crank. The grinded coffee with the motor is consistent and smooth and it is good and convenient for me without spending a bomb on good manual grinders
Not useful....Should of been a blind test....Grind the coffee from all three units, Make the coffee from the 3 grinds and then tell us what the best tasting coffee was.....This is not a fair video.....
As someone who had upgraded from Hario mini mill to Timemore C2, I can attest to the benefits of having a good grinder. My previous brews, prior using C2 to grind, were never consistent, especially on V60. That's why I preferred Aeropress as my go to brewing apparatus. After C2, I can enjoy consistent brews whether it's on V60 or Aeropress. Comandante C40 is my "grail" grinder, but I will probably be content with C2 for the next 1-2 years. Spending $$$ for another grinder requires significant financial commitment on my part 😁
I had the same experience as yours ... Also in my opinion the difference between c40 and the c2 will not be that much !!
@@bedahal-bedah243 what we think is the big difference (when having these grinders in hand and using them) is that Comandante is built to last for life (or generations) and I don't think that many of us will be using c2 in 5 or 10 years. Also, we used a higher version of Timemore grinder. Slim has different material and burrs!
1zpresso Q2 (heptagonal) is the best price for performance grinder for $99
for the next content like this you should try it with blind test to avoid the bias, imo
Thanks for a comment, we will consider that in the future.
Hey there guys! Thanks for your support and this informative video! We hope that everyone finds a way to enjoy their coffee and coffee making - that's the main thing :).
All the best from Munich!
I’m in Lithuania and am trying to find a Comandante, but everywhere seems to be sold out. Any suggestions?
Hi there @@MichaelMcDougle and thanks for your interest in our grinders! We have been blessed with extreme global demand this year (partly pandemic related of course too), which has meant that stock availability is often very limited, since it sells out so fast. We are sorry about that and are working really really hard to sustainably increase our capacity and get more out there! Our number one priority always remains product quality, so this growth is gradual.
I would recommend checking out European dealers who ship internationally - you can find a list on our Website for example : comandantegrinder.com/index.html#dealer
I hope that helps, and that you find one soon :).
Thanks again!
Best,
Joe
Thanks. I actually just found one and purchased it. Looking forward to getting it in the mail.
@@MichaelMcDougle Fantastic news! Thanks so much and I hope you love your grinder :)!
I"d like to try your grinder but the price is costly and can't even afford one. I'm using timemore C2 for my mobile coffee business for the time being.
You should have arranged blinded tasting, because otherwise his personal bias is involved. He clearly is biased toward the more expensive grinder, so it should've been blinded tasting. This looks like an ad for Commandante.
When I first got my Timemore C2 I absolutely hated unscrewing it, but luckily that noise goes away after a few times of use. It's absolutely the best grinder for the money, especially since I paid $52 for it on Primeday.
Just fyi the model reviewed here is the Timemore slim plus and not the C2, drastically different products with different burrs.
Lucky you
That one will be my next grinder
@@alyoshakaramazov1537
Nope, unfortunately the Timemore in this video was the "Slim" version not the "Slim Plus" and the only different between the Slim and the C2 aside from the shape is the build on the upper body, other than that they share the same burr sets and the same adjustment settings.
The Slim Plus would have the E&B burr or the 6 point titanium coated burr.
I was very suprised how much better the C2 is compared to my Porlex Mini 2, for the quite small price difference.
Me after hearing the sounds of each grinder:
~walks into cafe'
-*listens menacingly* So you have chosen the Commandante. Is this the power of an enemy stand?
6:14 Swap of products between Timemore and Hario Smart G.
Great catch. Sorry for a mistake.
why comandante? kinu or orphan apex?
european coffee trip = comandante. u know that..
Well, Comandante is our sponsor so we know their grinders the best. That’s why we can use them and compare them. Other grinders in the category are great too, we just don’t know them well enough.
@@EuropeanCoffeeTrip bias..
commandante suck up video haha at least mention its sponsered
I went from a Hario Mini Mill to the C40. I was expecting it to be an improvement, but really the difference is night and day. Would recommend just skipping the first step and buying a decent grinder to begin with.
Interesting.. at the end of the day it’s about consistent grind size which really makes sense. The optimal length of time extracting for one size will be different for another so it’ll be hard to get perfect
What coffee do you make ?
Even chestnut c2 already have day & night taste compared to those cheaper hario
Of course comandante will much better
But I think its good to start at the bottom and just enjoy your coffee journey slowly, this way you appreciate how good the upgrades and you kinda enjoy your coffee more cause you've experienced the cheap ones. IMO if you're a beginner in specialty coffee its good to start at the cheap grinders and just upgrade even if you can afford the most expensive grinder already that's what happened to me and I love the experience.
@@travisbrangalvan2613 I just had bought the hario Mini Slim Plus and I feel like it's a waste of money knowing there are better options, but I don't regret, I get decente cups of coffee. Even thought, it's hard and epensive to Buy a commandante from where I am (Uruguay) it cost about $650 because of the taxes and burocracy papers.
Thanks a lot, guys. I'll take the Timemore Slim :D :D
I'm curious as to how many clicks you use on the timemore as I have one and brew v60 with the exact same same ratio
I'm usually 20-22 clicks on Timemore; except when using Tetsu Kasuya method (24 clicks). What about you?
20-21 for Hoffman, 19-18 for 4:6 on C2 (non-slim)
Actually, we started at 20 but went down to 18 clicks for Timemore Slim. As you know, it really depends on coffee, pouring technique (and many more things 😅) to pick the right grind size.
I personally would go finer, 15 clicks for light roast beans and use water just off the boil
@@EGchristian yeah same I usually go for a light roast do I'm around 11 to 15
Too bad it wasn't a blind taste test. Confirmation bias, even in professional tasters, is a real problem.
I used to have the Hario Slim Pro, which lasted only a month. The day it died I freaked out and ordered the Comandante - expensive as hell but I've never regret it :)
Shameless bias and advertising.
Awesome Video Comparison!
Been a massive follower and fan of your work!
Lots of love from Melbourne Australia
Cheers!!
I'd love to see a kinu vs comandante vs 1zpresso kplus
James Hoffmann did a comparison.
@@hotshots149 1z wasn't in the picture back then
@@joshdesposito7228 Okay.
Thanks, guys! Some great ideas for the Christmas lists!
A much needed video👍. Thanks for the upload
I think the Timemore C2 would be a great options to those who want a good manual grinder with the similar price point with the Hario ($45 - $55) but the C2 have a better consistency that close to the Timemore Slim, so it's a good value for money hand grinder and you can spent more money for a good coffee beans.
Nice video as usual. Perhaps a blind test could have been more instructive ;)
I am eyeing the Timemore C2 on Aliexpress now. 50-55 euros with the discounts applied, shipped.
Still unsure if I should get it or save up for the Comandante and keep using my cheapo Delonghi electric grinder in the meantime. My Aeropress is forgiving, after all..
C2 is not the same as Slim. It has mode plastic and is their more budget option
As Ivan mentioned, C2 is a different model (also burr material is slightly different as far as I know). It should be a good budget hand grinder though so it can be a more portable alternative if your budget is limited.
you could always upgrade C2 burrs if im not wrong, its really the best for its price imo.
@@whoami724y how???(where can you buy better burrs?)
@@peteryopne6129 i have no idea, but i've heard the burrs on the slim fits on the c2 i think
Should have tasted the coffees blind. Would have made for a more objective taste test.
I was exclusively using Hario Slim Mill then Smart G before my Smart G broke down for awhile. I went to buy a Comandante as my current Hario produces rather inconsistent grind which affected my extraction. The difference in taste was very significant at least for me when I first tried Comandante - taste way smoother and the taste notes came out more distinctively vs Hario. Also, the grind experience was so much better on the Comandante as it was smooth and quick, Smart G requires more effort and my arms get rather sore (so yeah I also got the Smart G Mobile Mill Stick to make my life easier) and the grind is so much consistent in Comandante. so yeah from then on I never looked back... Comandante for me. But I like smart G for its portability tbh
those were the ads
Very nice comparison. 4 months ago I bought Indonesian local grinder called Latina Sumbawa (maybe it's in one class for the hario one / entry level). For those kind of price and that's the first time I learnt coffee, the taste was quite ok.
Then for about 2 months ago I bought the timemore chestnut like in your video. Using timemore, I started to taste much better coffee, because I think the timemore extracted coffee better than the previous one.
Then watching your video today, I think it is the time for me to invest on comandante grinder. Such a helpful comparison. I hope I can save my money for it. Nice video! 😁
OMG! That's exactly what I've been looking for! I've just recently gravitated towards investing into commandante and waiting it to arrive in Ukraine by official local dealer. I was slightly concerned about that much money to spend on it, but I'm already drinking a specialty coffee and I don't like how it's been ruined by my current grinder (hario skerton pro). It's decent grinder but it doesn't produce high quality grind. Now I'm totally sure that I've made a right choice! Because I felt like I was just wasting good coffee. It was extremely hard for me to dial in my grinder for a good taste. I'm getting like 3 to 5 max good cups out of the 350g bag of coffee beans.
Thanks for your content guys! Cheers
Thank you! We are glad it was a useful video.
Same for me, planning to buy a Comandante in Ukraine after 3 months of using Hario Mini Slim Pro. The Hario one is unfortunately awful: it opens up accidentally and the burr is extremely unstable, so I get something from a very fine dust to some coarse French Press style bites.
What about your Comandante? Did you already get it?
Much awaited video describing about difference between the economical and expensive hand coffee grinder is about to be released in next 21 minutes.... Thnakyou for bringing it up!
Comandante grinder and Timemore grinder are amazing grinder. What I have 1zpresso K-PLUS grinder from Aliexpress it is also amazing grinder 👍
Agreed, I am also using that grinder, best investment.
Thanks for the comparison...
I'm absolutely IN LOVE with coffee, but I have a HUGE issue with these kind of videos, and is the sound of people swallowing. Is so freaking disgusting. Is it just me?
Nice video! I have been using the Timemore for about a year and happy with it. I’m keen to try the C40 though and see how much it will improve my daily coffee experience (V60 and Aeropress). Btw, I believe you mean seconds not minutes for grind time?
I would have added a super cheap 10 euros amazon grinder to the bunch ...just for fun ...obviously the conclusion would have been the same. Agree on everything. Nice one!
You are right, that could be a good option for the test. We need to get some of the super cheap grinders, just out of curiosity!
Considering that the pre-ground filter coffee I use doesn't leave any mud in the paper, and the Hario does, is it even an upgrade to go from pre-ground to Hario? It seems like a 40€ downgrade with mud and big boulders left over. Genuine question.
Loved the video but I really thing the sweet spot for hand grinders is in the price range between the timemore and the comandante. I would love to see a good review from the 1zpresso line of grinders maybe you guys may consider that
Our friend at The Coffee Chronicler did one review: th-cam.com/video/KWs80A67joc/w-d-xo.html. We haven't played with the grinder yet but it looks solid!
Just, please, I am missing testing grinding for espresso - that is the finest and a high quality demanding job..... Did you try that level in some other video?
If I would start making espresso at home, using a Cafelat Robot or maybe even a Flair 58, would the Comandante grind good enough espresso? I've heard they need a good theoretically espresso-focused grinder.
Does the Comandante produce espresso grounds as precise and consistent, for example, as the Niche, or which grinders would you suggest?
Also, is grinding much slower on the Comandante, especially for espresso? Meanwhile I'm still using a Hario Slim Mini Plus.
well.. grinder is pain in the ass.. now i just go buy coffee bean at starbuck and told them to grind my coffee bean. tell them what you desire, for example "espresso" grind. then you will get it without no charge. now my coffee just taste like the starbuck coffee itself. lol.
@@erizheizlan My local roaster has a spectacular grinder, produces ground coffee that tastes way better than my cheap hand grinder. The day I bring it home. Already the second or third day I'd rather have fresh ground from my cheap grinder.
Fresh ground is worth the effort unless I'm in a real hurry.
Conical burrs espresso is something different.
Even in compare with pretty simple/basic 64mm flat mills - there's so different experience.
@@dima1353 What's the cheapest flat burr I could buy?
The conclusion: Comandante is only for Q-Graders. For most others an average grinder would suffice.
There's no any sense in not blind tasting.
You can use standard double blind method. The tester not only does not have to know what he is drinking, he does not have to be in direct contact with the person who makes the coffee and know what is what.
I just bought a cheap Tescoma grinder for 25€. Do you think there will be a difference?
I wish you had done a blind test!
Yeah, we would do it blind if we ever repeat but the structure of the video would need to change too. Thanks for the comment!
it should have been blind test, pretty strange to do it while knowing the price
I don't think the average person would notice the difference in taste. However, the average person would notice the difference in quality of the grinder.
Good point, it's much easier to see the difference in the material and manufacturing. I would argue that a taste difference between "cheap" vs "expensive" grinder category is noticeable also for a regular person. We should try though, perhaps it's a good idea for the next video.
i like the way this video was done even though it wasn't a blind test . people could still have doubts if the blind test was honest . so i think the video helped people decide . i have a timemore c2 and am quite pleased with it for under $75.00 . but knowing the way i roll , i will probably wind up with the Comandante C40 if i can hide it from my wife .
Blind test: just get a cupboard and cover it up, then randomly drink it. Isn’t it so simple?
Crazy just thought about this today. Thank you so much! The only question is now wether to get a hand or electrical grinder 🤔
Or a hybrid of electrical and hand grinder, right?
@@EuropeanCoffeeTrip motordante is on it's way. I think that is an interesting product. Definitely would love to see a video of you guys reviewing it.
GET SMALL PERSONAL SIZE BLENDER PUT ABOUT HALF CUP OR CUP OF BEANS ENOUGH FOR POT COFFEE YOU CAN GRIND IT FINE AS YOU WANT TO GET IT
Enjoyed the detail about the austerity and high nitrogen stainless burrs. This is the info I've been mining for finally. Good job Sir, thank you.😅
my manual coffee grinder journey started with hario slim, porlex mini, 1zpresso e pro, then comandante c40.
Can you share why you went away from 1zpresso? I've been using an OE Lido 3 and have been thinking about the 1zoresso
@@squaremile because I found a good deal on c40, so I sold my 1zpresso and went with c40. 1zpresso was a good manual grinder , good built quality, reasonably priced too
Yeah, that's quite a similar journey for us (except the 1zpresso).
5:14 before having your first coffee, 5:17 after having coffee.
Hah, thats great
wow, i wonder how good my morning coffee could be.
i use the $5 burr-grinder.
I would love to see a vs between encoure and comandante.
Yes, this is an comparison that I have been looking for a year now 😭
Feel like a better matchup is virtuoso plus vs comandante
@@2000mipo I've read pretty consistently that midrange hand grinders like Timemore C2 and 1Zpresso Q2 are better than the encore in terms of grind quality. They're less expensive than the encore because you aren't paying for electronics/motors, and of course you have to manually hand-grind the coffee which some dislike.
Considering the Timemore lineup is supposed to outclass the encore, I'd expect the Commandante to easily outclass it as well.
^the other commenter is right, Virtuoso plus is a better comparison to the Commandante but I haven't done any research on that.
I considered buying c40, but it was too much in terms of price for home brewing, so I ended up buying timemore c2 and brewista kettle. No regrets whatsoever but i did get separate grinder for espresso, handgriding this fine is too much pain in the back.
Thanks for sharing your experience, Denis.
Both of you are a coffee lover and knew each product before. You should do the experiment in public that no one knows the products. Good job bro
Yeah, we can do it in the future. Thanks for the idea!
It would be greate if you could test out immersion drippers please (bonavita, wilfa svart, december dripper, etc..)
Thanks for an idea for the future video!
I think it will be better if he tries the coffee and the ground coffee without knowing the grinder
I own a Comandante and love using it but sometimes I think about buying a Baratza Forte BG just to improve the taste.
But the fact that a Q-Grader and Champion only has good things about the Comandante to say and the fact that the Comandante is often used at Championships makes me question that idea.
Would I even be able to taste a difference? Would it be better or just different?
Would I pay three times the price of the Comandante for a 5-10% increase in taste?
Maybe I should just forget that silly idea and be happy with my Comandante.
I don’t have hard data but I wouldn’t expect better results from Forte BG. If you want to step up from Comandante with an electric grinder, you would need to pick higher-end grinders IMO.
If you love using the Comandante (and hand grinding is not an issue, there are also motors like Hario Solo to solve it now) - I would save money for more tasty coffees instead of looking for another grinder.
@@EuropeanCoffeeTrip
Thanks for the clear words, having read that I can now forget about the Forte BG idea.
Or the higher-end grinders you speak of which are even more expensive.
Do you have an opinion on the OE Apex by any chance?
@@fluffyman15 sorry, no idea about OE Apex!
Omg the guy won't look at the camera he's creeping me out so bad!
I used to bring porlex to work, but since i could afford comandante n taste the difference, i left my porlex and bring comandante + aeropress go every single day to office.. 😂
Adityan Candra ga pilih kinu ?
@@nugrahaprihutama8789 mending bawa batu gilingan sekalian 😭
Timemore c2 😍😍😍
Definitely love it. Especially for a price.
I had a Hario Slim (a model much older than Smart G) as my first hand grinder. Since I also brew coffee for my 3 roommates, I had to grind 36g coffee beans everytime (each person had a measly 140ml cup of pourover coffee). It took so much time and elbow grease that after a few months I simply said "screw it, I'm never going to touch any hand grinder" and bought an electric coffee grinder instead. Unfortunately that means I missed out the Comandante and spent more money on a electric grinder with lower grind quality.
Honestly, I think anyone who wants to make specialty coffee their hobby should skip Hario grinders (every model of them and anything cheaper) entirely and spend a bit more on a better grinder, especially when they live outside Japan where the Japanese coffee tools are more expensive (for instance, Smart G is sold for 45€ in Europe but 20€ in Japan). OTOH, for anyone who just wants coffee better than supermarket coffee, Hario grinders are still better than blade grinders and pre-ground coffee.
I used to grind with LATINA SUMBAWA, than doing some experiments and now i have Comandante c40 which i love a lot for my daily grinder. So start with low budget, then you'll realise how proper grinder could affect your cup of coffee. Just enjoy this black journey!
Another good option in the midprice category is the Turkish brand Molent Tools, with their Molent G50 grinder. I got one recently and I'm more than impressed with the results.
Thanks for sharing, never heard of them before!
@@EuropeanCoffeeTrip if you have a chance, take a look.
Very good content. Very helpful. Thanks and good luck.
Would've been better if he blindedly compared and tasted the coffee grounds and coffee from each grinder.. Just to eliminate any biases
Hah. And I'm still still doing my life with good old (and probably crappy) Lodos Temp :D
Well, it still better (perhaps) than to buy a pre-ground coffee. It's a legend, right?
At how many clicks from zero did you brew in the comandante?
I used both ends in this video. Hario smart g is not pleasant in general. Plastic body broke once and shattered once but I can't blame them since I put hard paper between outer burr and body and toilet paper between axle and inner burr. Yes, there is that much space between them. Grind consistency is not achieveable whether grinding for Turkish coffee, cold brew or in between. If these matters does not bother you then go for it.
So I bought Comandante after my Hario smart g. I am yet to see any real problems with it. Cleaning and gripping is definitely harder since it is bigger but the grind consistency is way more better. I think it is going to last forever but time will tell. I have not heard anyone that has a fatal problem with Comandante. This is the one to buy.
Thanks for this video. This is exactly what I wanted to see. I especially liked being able to see the differences in the grinds in the bed after brewing. That gave me a good understanding of what the differences in the grinds were.
Can you grind counter-clockwise with these grinders? I am left handed I grab with my right hand and naturally turn counterclockwise? I won't buy it if I have to grind clockwise.
From my experience with the Timemore, unfortunately you can't grind counter-clockwise, and I think the other would doo the same since the burr shape and pattern designed to grind clockwise.
Hello guys! I have two questions. Have you ever tried or plan on reviewing 1zpresso hand grinders? Specifically K line, JE line or jx pro?
Also, the Timemore Slim and nano both can be bought with a better burr they are called Slim S, for example. Could you swap that burr for the better one and try it on espresso? Or compare jx pro vs good burr Slim? Since they are the same price and are petty much competing as the best lower price espresso hand grinders.
Thanks, I really like your channel.
Also, bitterness depends on grind consistency? Is there any scientific evidence for this? I sense BS.
You can read the article on bitterness we did with a food scientist: europeancoffeetrip.com/what-makes-coffee-taste-bitter
As usual, many things in coffee are too complex. As I said in the video, our goal in the video wasn’t to show what grinder is better but what’s the difference between price categories - the grind consistency is only one factor to consider.
I think some of these grinders might be more suited towards espresso grind, so might not give a complete picture unless you're just wanting a grinder for pour over type coffees. I think the Comandante is good for both espresso and drip it seems though.
I'm surprised the cheaper Hario one sounded like it made a pretty decent cup based on his initial description of it (before trying the others) after seeing how the grinds had boulders in it, I have a similar grinder (Kyrocera brand) and I think it would probably give similar results at the coarse end, but it works well at espresso grind level.
Excellent Video, well presented, informative, and of course, great 🇵🇦 Coffee!
Saludos desde Boquete! 🇵🇦
What if compare C40 with electric grinders in the same price range?
Comandante is way better. We stopped using electric grinder in the thousand-dollar category. Of course, you need to grind manually 😅
I wish you guys had done a blind taste test instead
At 6:14 the $ cheaper option shows timemore and the $$ medium option the hario
Can you make a electric grinder video?
Really informative. Keep going on the video content like this. Just subscribed to this channel. Cheers.
What was your reference for dialing in? (TDS, time , extraction, grind size ...?)
Thanks for indonesian subtitle
How many clicks on timemore?
Hi Ales, love your work and this is another great video. It would've been great if we could see photos of the grind comparisons between the three grinders!
Got a Timemore C2 from Ali Express for ~$60, been enjoying it :D
which distributor?
I was thinking of buying a new hand grinder and I'm between timemore c2 and the xeoleo(or haanzhall, both are the same), because it's the only ones that I can buy through AliExpress (Amazon here in Spain doesn't have medium-high quality hand grinders), so which one should I choose????
Wait for James Hoffman to make a review on that xeoleo. He said that he's planning to do it in his most resent video
Im using timemore c2 (which use same burr as slim)
I have no complains yet, the grind is superfast and the coffee taste good
@@frederickateng3779 but the aliexpress products are the same (or at least very similar) to the official one? the difference between the official with shipment and the aliexpress is 60 €(60 € aliex-120€ offic), should i take the risk with a provider with 300 sales on aliexpress?
I would expect some specialty coffee roasters selling Timemore grinders (and other brands) through their sites in Spain. No idea about Xeoleo (and similar). C2 has already a good "budget grinder" reputation in the community.
Very well done video..
Next please try taste compare from KINU & CM 🙏