Tamarian (enraged): Zinda, his face black, his eyes red. (You will be destroyed!) Picard: Temarc. The river Temarc! In winter! (Be quiet/Stop attacking.) Tamarian: Darmok... Picard (with understanding): ...and Jalad at Tanagra. Darmok and Jalad on the ocean. (We were sent to face adversity together. We gained a new sense of cooperation.) Tamarian: Sokath, his eyes open! (He understands now!) Picard: The beast of Tanagra. Uzani, his army. Shaka, when the walls fell. (We faced a challenge (a creature). We tried to use a luring tactic. It failed and your captain died.) Tamarian: Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel. (A new phrase in their language in their honor, presumably meaning cooperation between two different cultures) Tamarian: Mirab, with sails unfurled. (Prepare to leave.) Picard (holds up Tamarian captain's knife): Temba, his arms open. (Please take this.) Tamarian: Temba, at rest. (You may keep it.)
Thats a good take. The only thing I would change is ‘Darmok and Jalad on the ocean’ - it more likely means something along the lines of ‘we were alone/we were isolated’ They only started cooperating at the end.
@@omegastar19 I think you may be right, but if I remember the episode correctly, when the Tamarian captain told the story of Darmok and Jalad to Picard, They were first on the island, Tanagra, initially strangers. However, they had to fight the beast of Tanagra by cooperating and understanding each other, and when they both left on the ocean, They had a new sense of mutual understanding. That is why I think "Darmok and Jalad on the ocean" means what I said. Also note that Picard said this sentence after "Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra", implying a cause and effect situation. Their journey at Tanagra led to a better sense of cooperation, similar to the experience of Picard and the Tamarian captain. Again, you may be right, but this is just my reasoning behind what I think it means.
@@user-bo5gz9vd8h "on the ocean" I always took to mean as "we are friends now" (remember the summary Picard gives of the story earlier in the episode: "they arrived separately, faced and defeated a common for and left together"
The most powerful moment was when the Tamarian said 'Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel' - maybe that would be entered into their vocabulary immortalizing both captains.
@@Channel9001 I like to think of it specifically as first contact with the federation, and that the federation is a group they can work with and have peace
that scene of all the tng episodes has to be one of the juiciest parts Stewart has ever swaggered on the bridge and casually performed in that very professional British actor style. The boy is just plain good. Almost as good as Paul Winfield ( RIP) the Captain who sacrificed himself in the name of peace.
I loved TNG. I loved its sophistication. I love its respect for the viewers intelligence. I love its optimism. I love that it inspires hope in the viewer. I love the way its structured. I love scenes like near the end when the conflict is resolved and we have a reflective debriefing with the characters involved. Absolutely superb.
Compare that to the shit we have now. It's all either super sarcastic or overly dramatic. Typical CBS trash. Sucks we don't have TNG style storytelling anymore.
@Wolffe brother, you nailed it with this comment. "respect for the viewer's intelligence" moved me to tears. That simply does not exist any longer...And we are poorer for it, and what's even worse is that no one knows it nor do they care. RIP Gene Rodenberry.
Despite being in my 40's, I'm just now watching this series through on Netflix. I have to say, this has been one of the best episodes so far, and I'm quite impressed with it.
You should do a run through of DS9 one day. Despite a few terrible episodes like "Move Along Home" or ANYTHING Ferangi-centered (but, then again, every Star Trek has terrible filler episodes), the vast majority of the show is not only well written but many of the episodes showcase some of the best acting and most emotionally poignant themes in all of Trek. Such as "Duet", "Far Beyond the Stars" and "In the Pale Moonlight".
@@samueltheprideofafrikarobi9319 It's the presence of a main character Ferengi that has kept me away from it. I find them impossible to take seriously and cringe anytime they are in an episode of TNG(which I have now finished.)
@@bwrpwr 🤣 I completely understand. The TNG version of them was TERRIBLE. But the differences between the TNG characters and the DS9 characters are as different as the original series Klingons and the TNG Klingons. (That is to say, night and day.) They were actually given personality and a culture. In fact, the main character in question, Quark, is actually a VERY well written character. All of the DS9 cast were superbly written. And his nephew Nog, while he starts out as an illiterate thug, grows to be one of the series' most well liked and important characters. It's only when they have entire episodes dedicated entirely to their people that it becomes cartoon-like. Likely because the writers wanted to have some lighthearted episodes in what's otherwise a very heavy show that deals with everything from slavery and genocide to religious dogma and war. I would urge you to ignore the understandably bad taste that TNG has put in your mouth concerning the Ferangi and give DS9 a spin. Unlike most Treks, it hits the ground running and overall is rewarding from beginning to end...just don't judge the show by "Move Along Home". It crops up in the first 5 episodes of season 1................and it's ROUGH.
@@samueltheprideofafrikarobi9319 Taking the time to type all that makes me feel obligated to give it a shot. I just started watching The Office (I am bad at catching shows when they are new!) and then I will give DS9 it's fair shot.
@@bwrpwr Did you ever see Babylon 5? B5 and DS9 were kind of duelling shows, and it made them both better. DS9 forced B5 to do more with its limited budget, and B5 forced DS9 to tell deeper and more engaging stories. I maintain they're the high point of sci-fi storytelling.
Just imagine another Tamarian vessel meeting the Enterprise, only having heard of the story of Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel recently, and then seeing the actual Picard from the story...
1:29 You can see the crew members in the back performing some kind of mourning ritual. At the very end of the episode Picard mimics their movements while holding the knife he was given. It's a nice touch that shows Picard's respect for other cultures.
The best part of this is that after watching the episode, everything they say here makes perfect sense. Even things they didn't directly say earlier, you can infer meaning.
I just imagine Riker finally getting up the courage to deliver that damage report a few weeks after the incident, when Picard finally stopped carrying the knife around everywhere he went.
I really like that you also have that bit at the end. Picard recognizing another explorer from a different culture. Willing to sacrifice everything for the faint hope of communication.
It was Dathon, not Picard, who was the hero of that story, without Dathon's gambit, his XO would have destroyed Enterprise and ended the last best hope of mutual understanding.
I wondered how a society like that could function in terms of scientific progress. (How can you have an engineering discussion in metaphors?) But that paper log of the captain's might be the answer. The log (pictured at 1:44) wasn't just different characters, but a multibranched, schematic-looking thing. Maybe they interact on a verbal level with metaphors, but they interact more directly and with greater complexity with written words. And maybe that kind of interaction is reserved for between themselves. Or maybe such logbooks are more special than that. They could be carried to important events, so that the story of anything unique or significant that happens can be shared and learned. This episode is an amazing display of subtext. "Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel" when it was spoken for the first time so clearly meant to me that "This phrase will become part of our culture, the story of it known to all." That burst of meaning is so satisfying.
I'm not even sure that the "Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel" even necissarily means all that, it was probably intended but with what we know about how they speak, it's just as likely that he was simply relating his relationship with Picard with Picard's with Dathon, after all while they might speak with strangers in more general mythic legends, why wouldn't they use personal or more local stories with those who would also know them, like a form of accent or local dialect
I think that there are a lot of people working towards being in the intel community or a job at Palantir answering interview questions googling and TH-cam .
For a spoken language to have evolved around historical context there had to have been a way to communicate that history and mythology to a broad enough audience. My guess is that they language evolved in that way because written language came long before spoken communication. In this way anything requiring specific technical communication could still be done in writing, where verbal communication is only used to convey context. Interestingly one could consider the prevalence of memes in digital communication a form of tamarian - how many times has someone responded to one idea with only a meme to convey their message?
i am not sure but you should look into old sanskrit and Japanese literature most of the writing there is done by constantly using concepts rather than being precise in explanation like we do today, this episode made me want to learn sanskrit because of the way they keep talking in terms of event and metaphors but I never did manage to pursue sanskrit in the end.
among other things, every member of their race would have to be a greatly studied historian, and a philosopher to boot. Without the knowledge of history and philosophy, the figures of myth and legend they point to to emphasize wouldn't be understandable. They'd also have to be an incredibly observant race, everything from tone of voice to body language would be just as crucial to understanding not just the meaning of a phrase, but the intent behind it. They'd also be a very "animated" race lots of movement exaggerated and subtle alike. And above all else, they would have to be an immensely spiritual emotional and intuitive race of people
Never been a huge Trek fan, but this episode is one of my favorites. It feels like it could be an Outer Limits or Twilight Zone. It has it’s contrivances but the story has such immense heart. I wonder if the Tamarians felt isolated for the hundred years of being unable to connect with the Federation. Granted as far as Trek goes, it does it’s job demonstrating that only someone like Picard could have accomplished what he did. If they beamed Worf down there, the moment the dagger was offered he would have shanked Dathon like a ham on Christmas. And then the Tamarians would have opened fire.
There's always been a contingent at Paramount that want Star Trek to be their answer to Star Wars - an IP with big space battles and spectacle so they can make buckets of money. So they bring in someone like JJ Abrams who doesn't understand it at all and he makes a couple forgettable space battle movies. This episode is the best encapsulation of what Trek is about, and what makes it so great. It's about exploration and discovery, and the idea that an episode about two people trying to bridge what seems like an impossible cultural and linguistic divide can be just as thrilling as one in which a bunch of ships get blown up. I love the scene later where Picard reflects on the Tamarian captain. Someone willing to die for just the chance of making a connection between his culture and another. He both recognizes and is in awe of that sacrifice. It's just remarkable storytelling. And it makes me sad that no one is trying to make a show that even aspires to that level right now.
Something similar happened in The Defector. Jarok risked his life, gave up his chance of ever seeing his home again, and accepted that his family would think of him as a traitor, just for the chance of preventing war and millions of dead.
The thing is, Star Trek has HAD big space battles and spectacle without JJ Abrams lens flare. Best of Both Worlds has one of the largest space battles in sci-fi history - and up to that point, possibly the largest - and was a lot of spectacle and space battle while also not skimping on the drama. Trek has BECOME lazy writing that tries to paper over that with spectacle and just falls flat. To be fair, so has modern Star Wars. Episodes 4-6 or even 1-3 were more nuanced and thought provoking than Discovery and much of Picard.
Wrath of Khan probably had a huge influence in this. It was considered the movie that "saved" the franchise, but it steered Star Trek into a more action oriented direction where exploration and discovery took a backseat.
My favorite episode of TNG. And I love the ending. Picard finally gets his "Kirk" moment, where he waltzes on the bridge during a crisis and resolves it. Normally, he defers to everyone else for suggestions. Not this time.
In other situations there were people who might have experience and knowledge useful to the situation. In this case, Picard is literally the only one on that ship who knows how to communicate with the Tamarians. Seeing how the situation was bad, he knows the proper time to tell people to give him the wheel.
Picard blowing the minds of every crew members on both ships instantaneously. This, and Picard sharing the story of Gilgamesh with Dathon are pure excellence. I keep coming back to these.
This was a fascinating take on communication. Many words and terms in the English language are metaphorical, but over the years while we have forgotten the metaphor that led to the word, the use of the word continues. Example: In a mystery, the detective looks for a "Clue" to solving the mystery, but why is this evidence referred to as a "Clue"? The spelling of the word changed in the 1940's. Originally it was spelled "CLEW", and THAT is OUR clue as to the metaphor that became the word. I take you to the story of Theseus, and the Minotaur, where-in, our Hero had to enter a maze that nobody had ever gotten out of. He was able to find his way out again by playing out string from a ball to mark his path. By following the string, he could find his way through the maze to the exit. Theseus was a SAILOR, and here is the key; The nautical term for a ball of string IS..... "A CLEW" The Clew was the key to solving the maze. Metaphor becomes word, and disconnect from the metaphor happens when the spelling of the word changes. The Idea of an ENTIRE language structured on sighting religious and mythological metaphor is a VERY possible and plausible cultural development, and the STNG writers here illustrated it beautifully, AND captured the true complexities of inter-species communication. It is not enough to understand the words, You have to understand the meaning behind them.
@@archangelstormrider3695 I ran across an example not too long ago, when editing an English subtitle for an Italian comedy. Two guys searching a creepy mansion, they come to a fork in the corridor, the straight man says he's going to the right, and he sends the funny man to the left, the funny man responds, "yes, it does look suspicious". The comment made no sense unless you listened to the Italian. Latin for "Right" is "Dexter", Latin for "Left" is "Sinister", and in Latin as with English, "Sinister is also a euphemism for suspicious, or just plain wrong. Straight man said "Take the sinister way" Funny man agreed the dark hallway LOOKED sinister to him as well. Play on words in Latin, but in English, as we use "left" instead of "Sinister" the joke was very literally "Lost in the translation". English is not my first language, and I developed a love for it's nuances when learning it.
@@vaniellys It was a 60's Comedy; the sequel to the Movie Dr. Goldfoot and the Bikini Machine. The film was called "Dr. Godfoot and the Girl Bombs" 1966, Starring Vincent Price, and Italian Comedy Duo Franco Franchi and Ciccio Ingrassia. The first film was by A.I.P., and the sequel was a joint A.I.P. / Italian International production. The joke was cut out of the American release, you need to get the Italian edit with subtitles to see the joke and how it Doesn't translate to English.
I love the look on Worf's face when Picard strides onto the bridge and orders him to contact the Tamarian ship, it's "thank Kahless,the grown-up is back". Also love the slightly snarky "at least they're not new enemies"
Its encouraging to think that in the future, when a Federation ship hails a Tamarian's, a simple greeting of "Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel" will open so much between the two.
What makes this episode great for me is that it blends elements of TOS (strange cultures, rubber suit monsters) with a well thought out mystery that the audience can solve alongside Picard! This is cinched when, at the end, most of the audience will understand EXACTLY what Picard and the other ship is saying!
I absolutely hated this episode as a younger kid. As I got older I realized just how masterful of an episode this was and it’s one of my favorites now.
I still think it's interesting that a random Alpha quadrant species ship absolutely spanked the Federation flagship. Could have used them in the dominion war.
Such intelligent story-telling, with well developed characters and brilliant acting. As well as the double episodes and iconic Borg episodes, this episode as well as The Inner Light and Who Watches the Watchers are absolute quality. They have not aged at all. Tough to find anything comparable today.
Exactly!! Such work of excellence and very sensible works that is evocative and profound. TNG is just incredibe. Then we got Picard series... a great regression!!
This is my favourite Star Trek episode, and I mean of all series. The fantastic thing is that, having watched Picard going through his adventure with Dathon, the viewers understand the Tamarians, too, by the end of the episode.
This episode actually inspired me to read Gilgamesh. I’m just now starting to work my way through it, and I doubt I’ll ever be able to fully appreciate it (the relationships, and the way women are viewed are very different from modern times) but one should never say no to knowledge, and stories themselves lead to greater empathy and understanding. It’s all very fascinating, and I’m glad I’m reading it.
I watched this episode this weekend, for the first time - twice, in fact, couldn't resist. A smart story, Picard at his best, solving the situation in the last minute. It is kind of touching, as if it was mirroring that episode from the original series with the Gorn captain battling Kirk, but with a more optimistic view.
Man, how cool would it be if they showed that the Federation had developed relations with the Tamarians. Picture this! The Borg are expanding into the Klingon Empire. So the Klingons and Starfleet are fighting together against impossible odds. And when things look blackest... Worf: Sir, Tamarian fleet approaching! We are being hailed. Picard: On screen. Tamarian Captain: Jalad on the ocean. Uzani? Picard: Margon at the gates. Yargeth, as the night fell. Tamarian Captain: Zinda? Picard: (beat) His eyes BLACK. Tamarian Captain: (to crew) ZINDA! UZANI, HIS ARMIES WITH FISTS OPEN! Tamarians turn the whole battle around, coordinating fire with the other ships!
@@Genji_Glove I'm gonna take it to mean the following: Zinda! Uzani, his armies with fist open(Oh, snap! Let's fall in with these people!), whereas "Zinda! Uzani, his armies with fists clenched."(Mother-effer! Square up!)
@Koowluh The problem was that universal translators translate words, not allegories. They WERE using a universal translator, and it still sounded like nonsense because the words are all just references to history and myth. Like saying something is someone's "Achilles Heel", or a "Trojan Horse". In order to understand the meaning and not just the words, you have to know the myth of The Illiad. Describing two people as "Romeo and Juliet" won't tell you, with words alone, who they are to each other, you need to know Shakespeare. Describing someone as "a modern DaVinci" doesn't tell you anything about them unless you know who the hell DaVinci was. Yeah, we humans can usually get an idea of what they're saying even if we've never read the stories, because the names have crossed language barriers for some time, but that's the point. We don't know the Tamarian myths so we have no idea the message they are trying to convey with their allegories.
This is my favorite moment in all of TNG. It's such a masterful stroke of cinema writing, presenting a seemingly innocuous problem that challenges the viewers intellect, then have it nearly destroy both parties, only to have the hero come in with a few brief lines of dialogue that makes it all worth it. I'd like to think the names "Enkidu" and "Gilgamesh" means something to the Tamarians in the Trekverse.
Tamarian 1st officer: Zinda his face black his eyes red. (fairly straightforward. Basically he's angry/unwilling to listen) Picard: Temarc. The river temarc. In winter(So the wiki insists that means be quiet/stop talking(aka shut the fuck up) but in this conext I think its more along the lines of hold your fire is more likely since telling someone who's angry to shut up would just further enrage them) Tamarian: Darmok... Picard: ...and Jalad at tanagra.(co-operation. In this instance I think it's something along the lines of we had to or had no choice to work together) Picard: Darmok and Jalad on the ocean. (loniliness/isolation according to the wiki. Not entirely sure something along the lines of we didn't get along at first or I(Picard) thought we were enemies) Tamarian: Sokath. His eyes open.(I understand/am listening) Picard: The beast of tanagra(a problem to be overcome ie a mighty foe that needs defeating) Picard: Uzani his army.(So there's two variants of this phrase that end in with fist closed or with fist open which both describe certain battle tactics. Mainly luring an enemy into a type of ambush or surprise attack ) Picard: Shaka when the walls fell.(failure. Basically saying the attack failed and the Tamarian captain lost his life) Tamarian: Picard and Dathon at El-adrel(The tamarians way of saying we're friends now. Could also be a new phrase or varation meaning a willing to give ones life for another or a worthy cause or possibly an inability to save someone from mortal injury or death) Tamarian: Mirab with sails unfurled(fairly easy basically take us home/prepare to depart) Picard: Temba his arms open.(basically offering a gift to return something aka You wanna take his knife?) Tamarian: Temba at rest.(politely declining a gift offering. Nah. it's cool you keep it) Picard: Thank you.
Good job. I thought more that "Sokath. His eyes open", with the way he smiled, turned head to crew and shouted to be "he finally understands!" as in Picard understands.
@@nicsievers4387 I think it could be a bit of both I was fairly sure he was saying something along the lines of I'm listening but the way he briefly looks back at his crew does have this awe of holy shit he actually understands us.
A few points: Uzani, his army may just be a way of saying "we attacked" "Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel" is amazingly important. They're such close allies that they've incorporated his into their language. Otherwise, spot on
@@Lord-Professor I always thought "Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel" is something like "The first time someone understood what we're, saying. We'll remember that"
This is what Star Trek (TNG in particular) was so good at - understanding humanity, finding ways of working together through hardship, expanding the limits of knowledge, but never resorting to just noisy special effects. It helped that they had a great cast and of course the great Patrick Stewart, but the level of writing was also much higher.
The line where Riker asks, "New friends Captain?" and Picard responds with "Not sure Number One, but at least they're not new enemies," encapsulates to me the entire essence of Starfleet and Trek in general this was a situation that could have easily gone very poorly and led to conflict...but the will of diplomacy and a desire to create new relations ended up victorious in the end. That to me is what Star Trek is all about
Whatever happened to the Tamarians? They obviously had a tech base at least equal to the Federation, so there would be no Prime Directive barrier to a cultural exchange, or at least a diplomatic outreach.
True, but as this episode pointed, there was a huge problem in regard to the communication with Tamarians since they don't used so to speak "standard communication language" but hard to understand during the first contact proverbs. So it's very possible that they chose the way of the isolationists reinforced by the fact that they possess equal (to even slightly advantageous to Federation (and other major galactic powers at that time) technology helped them to "keep unwelcomed guest off their lawn" if I could say so. ^_-
@@asheer9114 Sure, but my issue is with the episodic introduction and later ignoring of the entire species. This is similar to the Gorn and the Tholians being introduced and then ignored in TOS. If there was some later attempt to contact this species, then some canon reference would have been nice.
@@steveoliver5251 It was a TNG episode. The one with Riker's father. Apparently, the father was a Fleet strategist in a war with the Tholians. I don't think the outcome was mentioned
Fantastic ending to one of the best episodes in the series/franchise! I miss when Trek was intelligent sci-fi and where the action served the plot rather than tried to replace it (and badly at that)
As a boy I was watching reruns of Original Series 10years after its canceleation. I was always floored by the amazing writing on the show and the lessons and virtues that continue to echo from those episode shaped me and still speak to me today. The Next Generation also developed into a worthy successor because of its phenomenal writers. There were many great moments that stood out on this show, but the efforts on an alien and stranger to risk ev everything and die trying to open the doors of communication between to different and suspicious peoples that had no common cause or tongue to find cause. It speaks volumes to us as to the challenges we face today with so many that cannot find common cause or try to reach out with hope for understanding and a desire to share and learn from one another. That is what this franchise has given to me, and what it .means to me as my tutor or my humanities. Engage.
Exactly. I don't know if you care,but star trek for me is accepting and understanding everything different. And I think every human should watch star trek to learn that. Then I believe, homophobia,racism,sexual abuse,war wouldn't exist. If they truly understood what star trek represents. You might not understand that what is different From you but that doesn't mean you should attack it or curse at it
I actually rate this episode above City on the Edge of Forever. Don't get me wrong, 'Edge is brilliantly done and asks the serious question of whether doing something horrible is the "right" action when the result would be something horrific. But Darmok explores a far deeper question, that of two people clearly both trying to work together, but unable to communicate.
While tos is the classic tng very much got better at episode plots and the stories are just deeper. I watched tos almost exclusively for the characters and their chemistry (in particular Spock bones and Kirk) and only some episodes had a plot that I liked. In tng i watch both for the characters and the plot.
You can argue this is the best episode in all of Trek. Extremely powerful message, fantastic productions values (for the most part), great acting and script, good premise and a believable climax. Well, except you DON"T FIRE PHASERS FROM THE PHOTON LAUNCHER! XD
This episode displayed the true beauty of star trek and the way that they thought outside the box and wrote such an amazing story just goes to show that no matter how much you may like discovery or anything that's out now, NOTHING will compare to the Era of tng and ds9. They both had some AMAZING stores. As every ds9 fan knows, the equivalent to this as in the way story is just so outside the box is in the pale moonlight. Such amazing series. Even though I love what discovery did with the guardian of forever I don't think any episode of trek will ever top this episode of tng.
When PIcard says, "Shaka, when the walls fell," you can tell he was a little choked up at the death of Dathon. Patrick Stewart did a wonderful job expressing sorrow with this weird line!
Today at work a young Sudanese coworker was explaining to me that Arabic is hard to learn because it often uses metaphors. I flashed on this episode and told him about it. Always, always, it gives me chills. Maybe I'll learn a bit more.. Thanks for posting.
Everyone's commented on how powerful this scene was, how it opened our minds to new possibilities, and that's all true; but I can't stop seeing Riker standing behind Picard, trying to look strong and serious and backing up his captain, then Picard starts talking utter gibberish and Riker's like "WTF?" then snaps his eyes back to the screen to pretend he has the faintest clue what's going on.
Episodes like this are why this show was one of the best. There were plenty of bad episodes but when they get it right, they fucking get it RIGHT. Episodes that force you to think a lil. So cool
this episode was quite amazing, at first i was like the crew - confident that they will be able to understand the aliens, then when they actually met them i was as confused as the crew and by the end i actually understood the alien language like picard did. just amazing episode.
From this moment forward Picard was respected universally. That may have had something to do with the fact that he carried a shiny Tamarian shank everywhere he went.
Give it time. Compared the first and second season of TNG with the first season of Picard and the first two seasons of Discovery. They are all talking time to find their footing.
@@Blue84Stang It’s not just that; the tone of Picard is nihilistic at times, unnecessary violence and constant swearing, the visual aesthetic is completely absent - the ship designs are bland and unimaginative - the plot itself is derivative of better stories; Mass Effect springs to mind. For a fledgling show to have such severe structural issues simply makes me feel like it shouldn’t have existed in the first place. Did we need a direct successor to TNG where an older Picard gets a robot body that ages at the same rate as his human one? What does this add to the world of Star Trek? For me, it’s an enormous wasted potential to do something original.
@@Blue84Stang The first two seasons of TNG being awful is an internet meme. If you watch those seasons with a neutral eye you'll quickly figure out they're fine.
@@doncoyote68 Absolutely! I fully agree. Were there some questionable episodes, of course. But the seasons were still very good overall. I REALLY enjoyed season two of Picard, because while it is still substantially more dystopian than utopian, it still has a similar, though older and more experienced, feel, for lack of a better word.
I realize that writing dialogue for the Tamarians had to be difficult and time-consuming, but I really wish they'd join the Federation. They are super interesting, especially for a minor species, and I'd love to learn more about their culture, history and mythology.
Lt. Kayshon, a Tamarian, joined the USS Cerritos crew on season two of Lower Decks. They're canonically members of the federation now, and though the tone of the show doesn't really let it go into that kind of depth, it's nice that we have the answer to the "what ever happened to" question.
The funny thing is, their language literally tells you about their culture, history, and mythology. A casual lunch becomes a cultural deep dive simply by virtue of how they speak
@@TheKyrix82 We use our language as a tool to communicate our ideas. We use language to tell our story. To the Children of Tama, their language IS their story.
@@edgarbm6407 but in a way, we aren't ENTIRELY different. We speak in metaphor all the time. If we're talking about a new project and I say "That'll sink like the Titanic", you know exactly what that means, even if we aren't talking about a ship at all, or a thing that can even sink. If someone mentions Hiroshima or Nagasaki, you know they mean a large scale disaster and death. Same if someone mentions a major volcano like Krakatoa (sp?) We mention things like the US Civil War as a moral cause for which people fight and struggle to overcome. We still speak a the Trojan Horse as a thing coming in disguise. It's even the name of a type of computer virus. We talk about when the river Thames froze, the battle of Waterloo, Verdun, Dunkirk, Valley Forge, crossing the Delaware, Crossing the Rubicon, Fort Sumter, etc. We even add new ones from time to time in response to major events, like the Branch Davidians or 9-11 being added to the cultural mythos. And it can be fiction as well as history, such as "Beam me up, Scotty" (a line that, curiously, is never said in ANY Star Trek episode) or "Luke, I am your father!" or reference to "Vader is Luke's father" to mean "a surprise twist". Our metaphors are generally more...well, general (e.g. "cool off" as opposed to "The river Thames, in record cold winter"), but if I said "Sink like the Titanic" or "As the British at Dunkirk", you recognize those to mean "some colossal failure of a thing touted as invincible/a sure bet" and "Valiant and courageous withdraw before a determined enemy and impossible odds". Or, at least, something KIND of like that. ...granted, this is probably a lot more true if you have friends that are history buffs. :) But I feel we Humans are not so unlike the Tamarians in that respect. They just take it to 11.
The genius of this episode is that in the beginning, we, the audience, have no idea what the Tamarians are saying. But after journeying with Picard and their captain through the episode, by the time this scene arrives, we, the audience can understand them as well as Picard can. We learn about this species and their language right along with Picard, and at the end of the episode, realize we have learned as well.
This is what I love from Star Trek, is not a series about star battles, is how could be living in the stars. There are battles, but there are dialogue as well.
TNG should have won more awards. Spectacular writing and episodes are timeless. We all hoped for a better tomorrow and a future like this for human kind.. Thanks Gene R. for what you gave the world, and a special thanks to the legendary Lucille Ball an unsung hero for taking a chance those many years ago on a an idea/show back in the 60s. Wow !
Its so well done. The aliens seem so, well alien. But in reality they are not so different. They are worried about their captain and suspicious of the strangers. if i remember rightly this is one of the few episodes where Starfleet fires first. The look of concern, followed by resigned greif on the face of the alien second in command is very well done too.
I feel like this is the best depiction we could have of communicating with a truly alien language, possibly even better than the movie Arrival. It kind of makes sense, like social structures and empathy would be beneficial traits for any race to develop, but communication could develop very differently. It makes sense that people with non-human brains really would use language completely differently.
Tamarian (enraged): Zinda, his face black, his eyes red. (You will be destroyed!)
Picard: Temarc. The river Temarc! In winter! (Be quiet/Stop attacking.)
Tamarian: Darmok...
Picard (with understanding): ...and Jalad at Tanagra. Darmok and Jalad on the ocean. (We were sent to face adversity together. We gained a new sense of cooperation.)
Tamarian: Sokath, his eyes open! (He understands now!)
Picard: The beast of Tanagra. Uzani, his army. Shaka, when the walls fell. (We faced a challenge (a creature). We tried to use a luring tactic. It failed and your captain died.)
Tamarian: Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel. (A new phrase in their language in their honor, presumably meaning cooperation between two different cultures)
Tamarian: Mirab, with sails unfurled. (Prepare to leave.)
Picard (holds up Tamarian captain's knife): Temba, his arms open. (Please take this.)
Tamarian: Temba, at rest. (You may keep it.)
Thats a good take. The only thing I would change is ‘Darmok and Jalad on the ocean’ - it more likely means something along the lines of ‘we were alone/we were isolated’
They only started cooperating at the end.
@@omegastar19 I think you may be right, but if I remember the episode correctly, when the Tamarian captain told the story of Darmok and Jalad to Picard, They were first on the island, Tanagra, initially strangers. However, they had to fight the beast of Tanagra by cooperating and understanding each other, and when they both left on the ocean, They had a new sense of mutual understanding. That is why I think "Darmok and Jalad on the ocean" means what I said. Also note that Picard said this sentence after "Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra", implying a cause and effect situation. Their journey at Tanagra led to a better sense of cooperation, similar to the experience of Picard and the Tamarian captain. Again, you may be right, but this is just my reasoning behind what I think it means.
@@user-bo5gz9vd8h "on the ocean" I always took to mean as "we are friends now" (remember the summary Picard gives of the story earlier in the episode: "they arrived separately, faced and defeated a common for and left together"
Sokath, his eyes open!
OUT FRACKING STANDING👍
The most powerful moment was when the Tamarian said 'Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel' - maybe that would be entered into their vocabulary immortalizing both captains.
I think that's exactly what happens. I think that's the whole point of the Tama Lieutenant saying it.
It likely became their phrase for first contact.
That probably meant something like “ A new story shall be told of this day it’s called Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel”
@@Channel9001 I like to think of it specifically as first contact with the federation, and that the federation is a group they can work with and have peace
"an encounter between strangers of different worlds, mutual understanding and cooperation"
This episode. Is so good.
DiCaprio, his glass raised.
I literally lol'ed at this! Good one!
Fucking win
Winslet, her clothes abandoned!😂
This whole idea of a phrase based language is soooo stupid.... How would they manage in battle 🤣
Barclay, his holodeck deepfakes
I love that Cpt. Picard struts onto the bridge with that look in his eyes like, "STEP ASIDE I'M SAVING US ALL!"
And his first words to the Tamarians is basically "SHUT UP"
The only time he's ever been more bad-ass than this was during this episode: th-cam.com/video/HZodrviYF28/w-d-xo.html
He did that a lot lol
that scene of all the tng episodes has to be one of the juiciest parts Stewart has ever swaggered on the bridge and casually performed in that very professional British actor style. The boy is just plain good. Almost as good as Paul Winfield ( RIP) the Captain who sacrificed himself in the name of peace.
"I'm going to Picard us out of this mess."
I loved TNG. I loved its sophistication. I love its respect for the viewers intelligence. I love its optimism. I love that it inspires hope in the viewer. I love the way its structured. I love scenes like near the end when the conflict is resolved and we have a reflective debriefing with the characters involved. Absolutely superb.
Compare that to the shit we have now. It's all either super sarcastic or overly dramatic. Typical CBS trash. Sucks we don't have TNG style storytelling anymore.
@@PhilipWeberAB It actually breaks my heart a little bit, I don’t understand why Alex Kurtzman is in charge now
@Wolffe brother, you nailed it with this comment. "respect for the viewer's intelligence" moved me to tears. That simply does not exist any longer...And we are poorer for it, and what's even worse is that no one knows it nor do they care. RIP Gene Rodenberry.
@@PhilipWeberAB DS9 trash.
And I hate how we'll never be seeing any of that again.
Despite being in my 40's, I'm just now watching this series through on Netflix. I have to say, this has been one of the best episodes so far, and I'm quite impressed with it.
You should do a run through of DS9 one day. Despite a few terrible episodes like "Move Along Home" or ANYTHING Ferangi-centered (but, then again, every Star Trek has terrible filler episodes), the vast majority of the show is not only well written but many of the episodes showcase some of the best acting and most emotionally poignant themes in all of Trek. Such as "Duet", "Far Beyond the Stars" and "In the Pale Moonlight".
@@samueltheprideofafrikarobi9319 It's the presence of a main character Ferengi that has kept me away from it. I find them impossible to take seriously and cringe anytime they are in an episode of TNG(which I have now finished.)
@@bwrpwr 🤣 I completely understand. The TNG version of them was TERRIBLE. But the differences between the TNG characters and the DS9 characters are as different as the original series Klingons and the TNG Klingons. (That is to say, night and day.) They were actually given personality and a culture. In fact, the main character in question, Quark, is actually a VERY well written character. All of the DS9 cast were superbly written. And his nephew Nog, while he starts out as an illiterate thug, grows to be one of the series' most well liked and important characters. It's only when they have entire episodes dedicated entirely to their people that it becomes cartoon-like. Likely because the writers wanted to have some lighthearted episodes in what's otherwise a very heavy show that deals with everything from slavery and genocide to religious dogma and war. I would urge you to ignore the understandably bad taste that TNG has put in your mouth concerning the Ferangi and give DS9 a spin. Unlike most Treks, it hits the ground running and overall is rewarding from beginning to end...just don't judge the show by "Move Along Home". It crops up in the first 5 episodes of season 1................and it's ROUGH.
@@samueltheprideofafrikarobi9319 Taking the time to type all that makes me feel obligated to give it a shot. I just started watching The Office (I am bad at catching shows when they are new!) and then I will give DS9 it's fair shot.
@@bwrpwr Did you ever see Babylon 5? B5 and DS9 were kind of duelling shows, and it made them both better. DS9 forced B5 to do more with its limited budget, and B5 forced DS9 to tell deeper and more engaging stories. I maintain they're the high point of sci-fi storytelling.
I always liked the way Data looked back at Picard when he first walked into the bridge like "Boi he bout to do it."
Just imagine another Tamarian vessel meeting the Enterprise, only having heard of the story of Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel recently, and then seeing the actual Picard from the story...
1:29 You can see the crew members in the back performing some kind of mourning ritual. At the very end of the episode Picard mimics their movements while holding the knife he was given. It's a nice touch that shows Picard's respect for other cultures.
The best part of this is that after watching the episode, everything they say here makes perfect sense. Even things they didn't directly say earlier, you can infer meaning.
I just imagine Riker finally getting up the courage to deliver that damage report a few weeks after the incident, when Picard finally stopped carrying the knife around everywhere he went.
The knife likely sits next to his flute
One of the best Star Trek episodes. All iterations of the series.
Absolutely! It's the essence of seeking out new life and new civilizations.
Tng was the best series
I agree
This and the inner light hit you hard
The most Star Trekiest episode of Star Trek.
I really like that you also have that bit at the end. Picard recognizing another explorer from a different culture. Willing to sacrifice everything for the faint hope of communication.
It was Dathon, not Picard, who was the hero of that story, without Dathon's gambit, his XO would have destroyed Enterprise and ended the last best hope of mutual understanding.
The Tamarian captain was the real hero of this story
I wondered how a society like that could function in terms of scientific progress. (How can you have an engineering discussion in metaphors?) But that paper log of the captain's might be the answer. The log (pictured at 1:44) wasn't just different characters, but a multibranched, schematic-looking thing. Maybe they interact on a verbal level with metaphors, but they interact more directly and with greater complexity with written words. And maybe that kind of interaction is reserved for between themselves.
Or maybe such logbooks are more special than that. They could be carried to important events, so that the story of anything unique or significant that happens can be shared and learned.
This episode is an amazing display of subtext. "Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel" when it was spoken for the first time so clearly meant to me that "This phrase will become part of our culture, the story of it known to all." That burst of meaning is so satisfying.
I'm not even sure that the "Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel" even necissarily means all that, it was probably intended but with what we know about how they speak, it's just as likely that he was simply relating his relationship with Picard with Picard's with Dathon, after all while they might speak with strangers in more general mythic legends, why wouldn't they use personal or more local stories with those who would also know them, like a form of accent or local dialect
I think that there are a lot of people working towards being in the intel community or a job at Palantir answering interview questions googling and TH-cam .
For a spoken language to have evolved around historical context there had to have been a way to communicate that history and mythology to a broad enough audience. My guess is that they language evolved in that way because written language came long before spoken communication. In this way anything requiring specific technical communication could still be done in writing, where verbal communication is only used to convey context. Interestingly one could consider the prevalence of memes in digital communication a form of tamarian - how many times has someone responded to one idea with only a meme to convey their message?
i am not sure but you should look into old sanskrit and Japanese literature most of the writing there is done by constantly using concepts rather than being precise in explanation like we do today, this episode made me want to learn sanskrit because of the way they keep talking in terms of event and metaphors but I never did manage to pursue sanskrit in the end.
among other things, every member of their race would have to be a greatly studied historian, and a philosopher to boot. Without the knowledge of history and philosophy, the figures of myth and legend they point to to emphasize wouldn't be understandable. They'd also have to be an incredibly observant race, everything from tone of voice to body language would be just as crucial to understanding not just the meaning of a phrase, but the intent behind it. They'd also be a very "animated" race lots of movement exaggerated and subtle alike.
And above all else, they would have to be an immensely spiritual emotional and intuitive race of people
Next to "The Inner Light," this is my favorite TNG episode of all time. It's so beautifully done.
I can honestly agree with that ranking. I think I'm going to go watch both of them again now.
@@dylanhuculak8458 Those are the two episodes I rewatch at least once a year. They're just both so incredible
I agree 100%
I would add Who watches the watchers to that list and I do agree with you 1000 %
Never been a huge Trek fan, but this episode is one of my favorites. It feels like it could be an Outer Limits or Twilight Zone. It has it’s contrivances but the story has such immense heart. I wonder if the Tamarians felt isolated for the hundred years of being unable to connect with the Federation.
Granted as far as Trek goes, it does it’s job demonstrating that only someone like Picard could have accomplished what he did. If they beamed Worf down there, the moment the dagger was offered he would have shanked Dathon like a ham on Christmas. And then the Tamarians would have opened fire.
There's always been a contingent at Paramount that want Star Trek to be their answer to Star Wars - an IP with big space battles and spectacle so they can make buckets of money. So they bring in someone like JJ Abrams who doesn't understand it at all and he makes a couple forgettable space battle movies.
This episode is the best encapsulation of what Trek is about, and what makes it so great. It's about exploration and discovery, and the idea that an episode about two people trying to bridge what seems like an impossible cultural and linguistic divide can be just as thrilling as one in which a bunch of ships get blown up.
I love the scene later where Picard reflects on the Tamarian captain. Someone willing to die for just the chance of making a connection between his culture and another. He both recognizes and is in awe of that sacrifice. It's just remarkable storytelling. And it makes me sad that no one is trying to make a show that even aspires to that level right now.
It's weird that The Orville was doing better Trek when it was on than Trek was.
Something similar happened in The Defector. Jarok risked his life, gave up his chance of ever seeing his home again, and accepted that his family would think of him as a traitor, just for the chance of preventing war and millions of dead.
The thing is, Star Trek has HAD big space battles and spectacle without JJ Abrams lens flare. Best of Both Worlds has one of the largest space battles in sci-fi history - and up to that point, possibly the largest - and was a lot of spectacle and space battle while also not skimping on the drama.
Trek has BECOME lazy writing that tries to paper over that with spectacle and just falls flat. To be fair, so has modern Star Wars. Episodes 4-6 or even 1-3 were more nuanced and thought provoking than Discovery and much of Picard.
Wrath of Khan probably had a huge influence in this. It was considered the movie that "saved" the franchise, but it steered Star Trek into a more action oriented direction where exploration and discovery took a backseat.
Real recognizes real
My favorite episode of TNG. And I love the ending. Picard finally gets his "Kirk" moment, where he waltzes on the bridge during a crisis and resolves it. Normally, he defers to everyone else for suggestions. Not this time.
In other situations there were people who might have experience and knowledge useful to the situation. In this case, Picard is literally the only one on that ship who knows how to communicate with the Tamarians.
Seeing how the situation was bad, he knows the proper time to tell people to give him the wheel.
@@av799 agreed. This was just one of those few times.
My god....over a decade after my first viewing of this episode and it still makes me tear up. That's some excellent writing right there!
Picard blowing the minds of every crew members on both ships instantaneously.
This, and Picard sharing the story of Gilgamesh with Dathon are pure excellence. I keep coming back to these.
They got use.
Temba his arms open wide! Friends glad to see each other
This was a fascinating take on communication.
Many words and terms in the English language are metaphorical, but over the years while we have forgotten the metaphor that led to the word, the use of the word continues.
Example:
In a mystery, the detective looks for a "Clue" to solving the mystery, but why is this evidence referred to as a "Clue"?
The spelling of the word changed in the 1940's.
Originally it was spelled "CLEW", and THAT is OUR clue as to the metaphor that became the word.
I take you to the story of Theseus, and the Minotaur, where-in, our Hero had to enter a maze that nobody had ever gotten out of.
He was able to find his way out again by playing out string from a ball to mark his path.
By following the string, he could find his way through the maze to the exit.
Theseus was a SAILOR, and here is the key;
The nautical term for a ball of string IS.....
"A CLEW"
The Clew was the key to solving the maze.
Metaphor becomes word, and disconnect from the metaphor happens when the spelling of the word changes.
The Idea of an ENTIRE language structured on sighting religious and mythological metaphor is a VERY possible and plausible cultural development, and the STNG writers here illustrated it beautifully, AND captured the true complexities of inter-species communication.
It is not enough to understand the words, You have to understand the meaning behind them.
Thank you. That's awesome.
@@archangelstormrider3695 I ran across an example not too long ago, when editing an English subtitle for an Italian comedy.
Two guys searching a creepy mansion, they come to a fork in the corridor, the straight man says he's going to the right, and he sends the funny man to the left, the funny man responds, "yes, it does look suspicious". The comment made no sense unless you listened to the Italian.
Latin for "Right" is "Dexter", Latin for "Left" is "Sinister", and in Latin as with English, "Sinister is also a euphemism for suspicious, or just plain wrong.
Straight man said "Take the sinister way" Funny man agreed the dark hallway LOOKED sinister to him as well. Play on words in Latin, but in English, as we use "left" instead of "Sinister" the joke was very literally "Lost in the translation".
English is not my first language, and I developed a love for it's nuances when learning it.
@@Voodoomaria awesome.
@@VoodoomariaI love this kind of jokes ! What was the comedy titled ? ?
@@vaniellys It was a 60's Comedy; the sequel to the Movie Dr. Goldfoot and the Bikini Machine.
The film was called "Dr. Godfoot and the Girl Bombs" 1966, Starring Vincent Price, and Italian Comedy Duo Franco Franchi and
Ciccio Ingrassia.
The first film was by A.I.P., and the sequel was a joint A.I.P. / Italian International production.
The joke was cut out of the American release, you need to get the Italian edit with subtitles to see the joke and how it Doesn't translate to English.
This scene makes me cry every single time
Yeah it gets me too
The Doctor, stands in the rain.
Kiazi’s children, their faces wet
Same
Damn. When script writing was beyond epic.
I love the look on Worf's face when Picard strides onto the bridge and orders him to contact the Tamarian ship, it's "thank Kahless,the grown-up is back".
Also love the slightly snarky "at least they're not new enemies"
Rich Evans on the couch drinking
Mike Stoklasa at the table, he stares
Mike Stoklasa, a monster on his head.
Mr Plinkett's disappointing son referenced, no, not that one, his other one.
Mike Stoklasa, the monster of Illadrel, on the floor
Rich Evans, his laugh high
Probably one of the best episodes of any speculative science fiction series we have.
So many concepts to address.
Gotta love the fact that Picard can read Greek.
@Philo Jones Λίγο. :-)
@@guerrillascholar Lego..?
He's a Frenchman who has a perfect English accent. He can do anything lol
Its encouraging to think that in the future, when a Federation ship hails a Tamarian's, a simple greeting of "Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel" will open so much between the two.
What makes this episode great for me is that it blends elements of TOS (strange cultures, rubber suit monsters) with a well thought out mystery that the audience can solve alongside Picard! This is cinched when, at the end, most of the audience will understand EXACTLY what Picard and the other ship is saying!
I was legitimately excited when Picard successfully communicated with them.
I absolutely hated this episode as a younger kid. As I got older I realized just how masterful of an episode this was and it’s one of my favorites now.
As an original 1960's fan, this is one of my favorite
So these guys communicate in memes... imagine.. the woman screaming, tears in her eyes, the cat indifferent.
The man, at the dancefloor, realization- his eyes distant
A man, pointing at butterfly, a question in the air.
Picard, on the bridge, his face palmed
Pickard, mouth open, hand extended.
They basically spoke in meme
Temba, at rest.
This episode got me genuinely emotional. Weeping at 'shaka, when the walls fell'.
Darmok, Inner Light, and Yesterday’s Enterprise are to me the greatest episodes on TNG.
Those are pretty good pretty deep episodes.
I still think it's interesting that a random Alpha quadrant species ship absolutely spanked the Federation flagship. Could have used them in the dominion war.
I definitely think the Tamarians could have helped but how do you explain war to them?
Or you'd explain it and they'd tell you something like "Tethron, watching from afar"
@@archangelstormrider3695 The facechangers, faces red and eyes black against Carbons. Unfurl sails and join Darmok at Tenagra.
Such intelligent story-telling, with well developed characters and brilliant acting. As well as the double episodes and iconic Borg episodes, this episode as well as The Inner Light and Who Watches the Watchers are absolute quality. They have not aged at all. Tough to find anything comparable today.
Exactly!! Such work of excellence and very sensible works that is evocative and profound. TNG is just incredibe. Then we got Picard series... a great regression!!
One of the best episodes of Star Trek ever.
This is my favourite Star Trek episode, and I mean of all series. The fantastic thing is that, having watched Picard going through his adventure with Dathon, the viewers understand the Tamarians, too, by the end of the episode.
Vince McMahon, when the glass shatters!
The hower power, when revealed, its me Austin, aw son of a b***h.
God I love this episode.
One of the best episodes of the series. Brilliantly conceived, brilliantly written, and as always brilliantly acted
This episode actually inspired me to read Gilgamesh. I’m just now starting to work my way through it, and I doubt I’ll ever be able to fully appreciate it (the relationships, and the way women are viewed are very different from modern times) but one should never say no to knowledge, and stories themselves lead to greater empathy and understanding. It’s all very fascinating, and I’m glad I’m reading it.
I didn’t like this episode as a kid but it had lasting memories. I never forgot “Darmak and Jillad at Tenagra”
None who saw it will forget it. This is truly a classic episode.
Me watching as a kid: Drake, dancing with disapproval
Me watching as an adult: Drake, dancing with delight
I watched this episode this weekend, for the first time - twice, in fact, couldn't resist. A smart story, Picard at his best, solving the situation in the last minute. It is kind of touching, as if it was mirroring that episode from the original series with the Gorn captain battling Kirk, but with a more optimistic view.
Man, how cool would it be if they showed that the Federation had developed relations with the Tamarians.
Picture this! The Borg are expanding into the Klingon Empire. So the Klingons and Starfleet are fighting together against impossible odds. And when things look blackest...
Worf: Sir, Tamarian fleet approaching! We are being hailed.
Picard: On screen.
Tamarian Captain: Jalad on the ocean. Uzani?
Picard: Margon at the gates. Yargeth, as the night fell.
Tamarian Captain: Zinda?
Picard: (beat) His eyes BLACK.
Tamarian Captain: (to crew) ZINDA! UZANI, HIS ARMIES WITH FISTS OPEN!
Tamarians turn the whole battle around, coordinating fire with the other ships!
Your Tamarian is horrible.
Also, the Tamarians would take one look at the borg vessel and be like "Mirab, with sails unfurled!"
How does one have open fists?
This is the true ending of wolf 359
@@Genji_Glove I'm gonna take it to mean the following: Zinda! Uzani, his armies with fist open(Oh, snap! Let's fall in with these people!), whereas "Zinda! Uzani, his armies with fists clenched."(Mother-effer! Square up!)
@Koowluh The problem was that universal translators translate words, not allegories. They WERE using a universal translator, and it still sounded like nonsense because the words are all just references to history and myth. Like saying something is someone's "Achilles Heel", or a "Trojan Horse". In order to understand the meaning and not just the words, you have to know the myth of The Illiad. Describing two people as "Romeo and Juliet" won't tell you, with words alone, who they are to each other, you need to know Shakespeare. Describing someone as "a modern DaVinci" doesn't tell you anything about them unless you know who the hell DaVinci was.
Yeah, we humans can usually get an idea of what they're saying even if we've never read the stories, because the names have crossed language barriers for some time, but that's the point. We don't know the Tamarian myths so we have no idea the message they are trying to convey with their allegories.
The idea that a civilization could develop space travel with such a limited language …. Is FUCKING HILARIOUS! Darmok HIS ENGINES SMOKING!!!!
This is my favorite moment in all of TNG. It's such a masterful stroke of cinema writing, presenting a seemingly innocuous problem that challenges the viewers intellect, then have it nearly destroy both parties, only to have the hero come in with a few brief lines of dialogue that makes it all worth it. I'd like to think the names "Enkidu" and "Gilgamesh" means something to the Tamarians in the Trekverse.
Gilgamesh and Enkidu, at Uruk. Picard and Dathon at El Adrel.
This is one of my favorite next gen episodes.
Tamarian 1st officer: Zinda his face black his eyes red. (fairly straightforward. Basically he's angry/unwilling to listen)
Picard: Temarc. The river temarc. In winter(So the wiki insists that means be quiet/stop talking(aka shut the fuck up) but in this conext I think its more along the lines of hold your fire is more likely since telling someone who's angry to shut up would just further enrage them)
Tamarian: Darmok... Picard: ...and Jalad at tanagra.(co-operation. In this instance I think it's something along the lines of we had to or had no choice to work together)
Picard: Darmok and Jalad on the ocean. (loniliness/isolation according to the wiki. Not entirely sure something along the lines of we didn't get along at first or I(Picard) thought we were enemies)
Tamarian: Sokath. His eyes open.(I understand/am listening)
Picard: The beast of tanagra(a problem to be overcome ie a mighty foe that needs defeating)
Picard: Uzani his army.(So there's two variants of this phrase that end in with fist closed or with fist open which both describe certain battle tactics. Mainly luring an enemy into a type of ambush or surprise attack )
Picard: Shaka when the walls fell.(failure. Basically saying the attack failed and the Tamarian captain lost his life)
Tamarian: Picard and Dathon at El-adrel(The tamarians way of saying we're friends now. Could also be a new phrase or varation meaning a willing to give ones life for another or a worthy cause or possibly an inability to save someone from mortal injury or death)
Tamarian: Mirab with sails unfurled(fairly easy basically take us home/prepare to depart)
Picard: Temba his arms open.(basically offering a gift to return something aka You wanna take his knife?)
Tamarian: Temba at rest.(politely declining a gift offering. Nah. it's cool you keep it)
Picard: Thank you.
..... bruh you speak meme!
Good job. I thought more that "Sokath. His eyes open", with the way he smiled, turned head to crew and shouted to be "he finally understands!" as in Picard understands.
@@nicsievers4387 I think it could be a bit of both I was fairly sure he was saying something along the lines of I'm listening but the way he briefly looks back at his crew does have this awe of holy shit he actually understands us.
A few points:
Uzani, his army may just be a way of saying "we attacked"
"Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel" is amazingly important. They're such close allies that they've incorporated his into their language.
Otherwise, spot on
@@Lord-Professor I always thought "Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel" is something like "The first time someone understood what we're, saying. We'll remember that"
This is what Star Trek (TNG in particular) was so good at - understanding humanity, finding ways of working together through hardship, expanding the limits of knowledge, but never resorting to just noisy special effects.
It helped that they had a great cast and of course the great Patrick Stewart, but the level of writing was also much higher.
"that commitment meant more to him than his own life." Love how Picard always strives to see the bigger picture.
I wonder if the space battle between the two ships, described by the tamarians would be "MoistCritical and XQC at pogchamps."
This is my favorite episode. Sure there may not be explosions or tense battles but this episode captures the original spirit of Star Trek perfectly.
The line where Riker asks, "New friends Captain?" and Picard responds with "Not sure Number One, but at least they're not new enemies," encapsulates to me the entire essence of Starfleet and Trek in general
this was a situation that could have easily gone very poorly and led to conflict...but the will of diplomacy and a desire to create new relations ended up victorious in the end. That to me is what Star Trek is all about
I just watched this episode again last night. So powerful. My favorite episode 🥹
Mr Worf, I want phasers full phasers. And by full I mean the fullest. Route them through the photon torpedo bay if you have to.
This episode. What a masterpiece.
My favorite episode in the whole series. Trek at its best.
I like Data's reaction when Picard enters the Bridge.
One of my favorite episodes, if not my favorite.
Whatever happened to the Tamarians? They obviously had a tech base at least equal to the Federation, so there would be no Prime Directive barrier to a cultural exchange, or at least a diplomatic outreach.
True, but as this episode pointed, there was a huge problem in regard to the communication with Tamarians since they don't used so to speak "standard communication language" but hard to understand during the first contact proverbs.
So it's very possible that they chose the way of the isolationists reinforced by the fact that they possess equal (to even slightly advantageous to Federation (and other major galactic powers at that time) technology helped them to "keep unwelcomed guest off their lawn" if I could say so. ^_-
@@asheer9114 Sure, but my issue is with the episodic introduction and later ignoring of the entire species. This is similar to the Gorn and the Tholians being introduced and then ignored in TOS. If there was some later attempt to contact this species, then some canon reference would have been nice.
@@Amberscion I recall the Tholians being referenced at some later date that I can't specify. Possibly a Borg episode?
@@Amberscion memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Tholian
@@steveoliver5251 It was a TNG episode. The one with Riker's father. Apparently, the father was a Fleet strategist in a war with the Tholians. I don't think the outcome was mentioned
One of the very best episodes of Star Trek: The Next Generation.
They speak in memes ...
*Picard, his face in his palms*
This is the most Star Trekiest episode of Star Trek ever.
I miss the 80's and 90's really bad.
Yeah me too.
The best episode of the best Star Trek series.
Fantastic ending to one of the best episodes in the series/franchise!
I miss when Trek was intelligent sci-fi and where the action served the plot rather than tried to replace it (and badly at that)
Agreed
As a boy I was watching reruns of Original Series 10years after its canceleation. I was always floored by the amazing writing on the show and the lessons and virtues that continue to echo from those episode shaped me and still speak to me today. The Next Generation also developed into a worthy successor because of its phenomenal writers. There were many great moments that stood out on this show, but the efforts on an alien and stranger to risk ev everything and die trying to open the doors of communication between to different and suspicious peoples that had no common cause or tongue to find cause. It speaks volumes to us as to the challenges we face today with so many that cannot find common cause or try to reach out with hope for understanding and a desire to share and learn from one another.
That is what this franchise has given to me, and what it .means to me as my tutor or my humanities. Engage.
Exactly. I don't know if you care,but star trek for me is accepting and understanding everything different. And I think every human should watch star trek to learn that. Then I believe, homophobia,racism,sexual abuse,war wouldn't exist. If they truly understood what star trek represents. You might not understand that what is different From you but that doesn't mean you should attack it or curse at it
This was one of my favorite episodes
This Episode was One of the Best my friends. Thanks.
Damn, now I wanna rewatch TNG for the 3rd time.
This is what its like talking to my family
@Adam Johnson Likewise except I always walk away feeling like I've made new enemies
The river Temarc in Winter!
In other words, CHILL!
I actually rate this episode above City on the Edge of Forever. Don't get me wrong, 'Edge is brilliantly done and asks the serious question of whether doing something horrible is the "right" action when the result would be something horrific. But Darmok explores a far deeper question, that of two people clearly both trying to work together, but unable to communicate.
While tos is the classic tng very much got better at episode plots and the stories are just deeper. I watched tos almost exclusively for the characters and their chemistry (in particular Spock bones and Kirk) and only some episodes had a plot that I liked. In tng i watch both for the characters and the plot.
You can argue this is the best episode in all of Trek. Extremely powerful message, fantastic productions values (for the most part), great acting and script, good premise and a believable climax.
Well, except you DON"T FIRE PHASERS FROM THE PHOTON LAUNCHER! XD
Inner light still stands out for me as some of the best of tv, not just TNG
This episode displayed the true beauty of star trek and the way that they thought outside the box and wrote such an amazing story just goes to show that no matter how much you may like discovery or anything that's out now, NOTHING will compare to the Era of tng and ds9. They both had some AMAZING stores. As every ds9 fan knows, the equivalent to this as in the way story is just so outside the box is in the pale moonlight.
Such amazing series. Even though I love what discovery did with the guardian of forever I don't think any episode of trek will ever top this episode of tng.
When PIcard says, "Shaka, when the walls fell," you can tell he was a little choked up at the death of Dathon. Patrick Stewart did a wonderful job expressing sorrow with this weird line!
One of the best things ever made on TV.
Today at work a young Sudanese coworker was explaining to me that Arabic is hard to learn because it often uses metaphors. I flashed on this episode and told him about it. Always, always, it gives me chills. Maybe I'll learn a bit more.. Thanks for posting.
It is one the more epic episodes
Everyone's commented on how powerful this scene was, how it opened our minds to new possibilities, and that's all true; but I can't stop seeing Riker standing behind Picard, trying to look strong and serious and backing up his captain, then Picard starts talking utter gibberish and Riker's like "WTF?" then snaps his eyes back to the screen to pretend he has the faintest clue what's going on.
Episodes like this are why this show was one of the best. There were plenty of bad episodes but when they get it right, they fucking get it RIGHT. Episodes that force you to think a lil. So cool
this episode was quite amazing, at first i was like the crew - confident that they will be able to understand the aliens, then when they actually met them i was as confused as the crew and by the end i actually understood the alien language like picard did. just amazing episode.
From this moment forward Picard was respected universally. That may have had something to do with the fact that he carried a shiny Tamarian shank everywhere he went.
Lmao.
Compared to that show and those dialogues, Enterprise, Discovery, Picard are just... well, Shaka, when the walls fell.
Enterprise had it’s moments
Give it time. Compared the first and second season of TNG with the first season of Picard and the first two seasons of Discovery. They are all talking time to find their footing.
@@Blue84Stang It’s not just that; the tone of Picard is nihilistic at times, unnecessary violence and constant swearing, the visual aesthetic is completely absent - the ship designs are bland and unimaginative - the plot itself is derivative of better stories; Mass Effect springs to mind. For a fledgling show to have such severe structural issues simply makes me feel like it shouldn’t have existed in the first place. Did we need a direct successor to TNG where an older Picard gets a robot body that ages at the same rate as his human one? What does this add to the world of Star Trek? For me, it’s an enormous wasted potential to do something original.
@@Blue84Stang The first two seasons of TNG being awful is an internet meme. If you watch those seasons with a neutral eye you'll quickly figure out they're fine.
@@doncoyote68 Absolutely! I fully agree. Were there some questionable episodes, of course. But the seasons were still very good overall. I REALLY enjoyed season two of Picard, because while it is still substantially more dystopian than utopian, it still has a similar, though older and more experienced, feel, for lack of a better word.
One of the best episodes in the early seasons.
I realize that writing dialogue for the Tamarians had to be difficult and time-consuming, but I really wish they'd join the Federation. They are super interesting, especially for a minor species, and I'd love to learn more about their culture, history and mythology.
Lt. Kayshon, a Tamarian, joined the USS Cerritos crew on season two of Lower Decks. They're canonically members of the federation now, and though the tone of the show doesn't really let it go into that kind of depth, it's nice that we have the answer to the "what ever happened to" question.
The funny thing is, their language literally tells you about their culture, history, and mythology. A casual lunch becomes a cultural deep dive simply by virtue of how they speak
@@TheKyrix82 We use our language as a tool to communicate our ideas. We use language to tell our story. To the Children of Tama, their language IS their story.
@@edgarbm6407 but in a way, we aren't ENTIRELY different. We speak in metaphor all the time.
If we're talking about a new project and I say "That'll sink like the Titanic", you know exactly what that means, even if we aren't talking about a ship at all, or a thing that can even sink. If someone mentions Hiroshima or Nagasaki, you know they mean a large scale disaster and death. Same if someone mentions a major volcano like Krakatoa (sp?)
We mention things like the US Civil War as a moral cause for which people fight and struggle to overcome. We still speak a the Trojan Horse as a thing coming in disguise. It's even the name of a type of computer virus.
We talk about when the river Thames froze, the battle of Waterloo, Verdun, Dunkirk, Valley Forge, crossing the Delaware, Crossing the Rubicon, Fort Sumter, etc. We even add new ones from time to time in response to major events, like the Branch Davidians or 9-11 being added to the cultural mythos. And it can be fiction as well as history, such as "Beam me up, Scotty" (a line that, curiously, is never said in ANY Star Trek episode) or "Luke, I am your father!" or reference to "Vader is Luke's father" to mean "a surprise twist".
Our metaphors are generally more...well, general (e.g. "cool off" as opposed to "The river Thames, in record cold winter"), but if I said "Sink like the Titanic" or "As the British at Dunkirk", you recognize those to mean "some colossal failure of a thing touted as invincible/a sure bet" and "Valiant and courageous withdraw before a determined enemy and impossible odds". Or, at least, something KIND of like that.
...granted, this is probably a lot more true if you have friends that are history buffs. :)
But I feel we Humans are not so unlike the Tamarians in that respect. They just take it to 11.
@@SubduedRadical that's a brilliant take
JJ Abrams when the walls fell PLEASE!!!
Star Trek Discovery wishes it had a scene half as cool as this one
The genius of this episode is that in the beginning, we, the audience, have no idea what the Tamarians are saying. But after journeying with Picard and their captain through the episode, by the time this scene arrives, we, the audience can understand them as well as Picard can. We learn about this species and their language right along with Picard, and at the end of the episode, realize we have learned as well.
Always curious what the control labels say. For self-destruct is there a button labeled “Guliani, when the election was lost”?
Nixon, when the documents leaked
This is what I love from Star Trek, is not a series about star battles, is how could be living in the stars.
There are battles, but there are dialogue as well.
Ackbar when the shields fell
TNG should have won more awards. Spectacular writing and episodes are timeless. We all hoped for a better tomorrow and a future like this for human kind.. Thanks Gene R. for what you gave the world, and a special thanks to the legendary Lucille Ball an unsung hero for taking a chance those many years ago on a an idea/show back in the 60s. Wow !
This is my favorite episode
And the one with "there are four lights".
Its so well done. The aliens seem so, well alien. But in reality they are not so different. They are worried about their captain and suspicious of the strangers. if i remember rightly this is one of the few episodes where Starfleet fires first. The look of concern, followed by resigned greif on the face of the alien second in command is very well done too.
I feel like this is the best depiction we could have of communicating with a truly alien language, possibly even better than the movie Arrival. It kind of makes sense, like social structures and empathy would be beneficial traits for any race to develop, but communication could develop very differently. It makes sense that people with non-human brains really would use language completely differently.
This great, imaginative episode stands alongside the best few Original Series episodes.
Worf has that "Cap's gonna save us all again" look on his face.
One of if not my favorite episode.
Best episode ever