Correct me if i am wrong, but dont Scott and Ed both do this show remotely? As in not in the same room at the same time? As in getting to work from home? There is literally a bed behind Ed.
Hes saying he realized recently that people should go back. He didnt say he loved working from his room or a hotel. Hes saying he thinks its a good idea to go back which he didnt exempt himself from. Lets get more constructive comments
I just have to say that it’s return to OFFICE, not return to work. No one has stopped working. In fact, we now work more efficiently being away from the confines of being in daily detention, not having to use the bathroom in tandem with our colleagues (super helpful team building initiative), and not having to make bullshit small talk / be regularly interrupted from doing our jobs. Hence, work done faster, less errors, more free time to learn new technologies, read the news, learn about the world, become a better human. This mandate of Amazon’s will backfire one way or another, in time.
I think a flex schedule would be a good in-between. Meeting my coworkers in person for the first time at my new-ish job changed the dynamic so much, for the better. But it is nice not spending 45min+ commuting everyday, dealing with train delays, stress, and the added money of doing so.
Not only that, but modern offices (open spaces, no privacy) are setup to induce stress and performance anxiety. They are not healthy places to work at all, that being said I don't think going to the office is the end of the world, touching base with everyone twice a week in person is fine.
I would note that a lot of people I know who have returned to office say they go to the office and sit alone taking Zoom meetings. Living here in Seattle I hear about Amazon a bit and heard of one woman who goes into the office, sits alone in the cafeteria drinking coffee - because she has not a single team member in Seattle - then goes home to work. It's an enormous waste of people's time and people resent it. A lot. I've heard rumor that this five day a week push is in part because they can't even get people to do the original three days.
"I know people that work in bed and never change out of their pajamas and that's why people are lonely. It's good that Amazon is forcing everyone to the office," says the entitled podcaster with an unmade bed in the background.
A cynical, but entirely within the realm of possibility, view is that RTO is being used to lower quality of work-life and result in people quitting (read: firing without severance).
Bring everyone back to office 5 days a week, 9-5. Say the people working from their own home spaces, Including from abroad. ‘Do as I say, Not as I do’ vibes
Forcing people with families, kids and spouses into the office to solve loneliness. Great take. How about lonely people go into the office, and the ones with a full-filled life, that ask for balance, work from where they please?
You don't have to take an all-or-nothing approach to remote/office work. Hybrid models work really well. You get some time in the office to hang with others, while cutting down on stress and commute time on other days. It's a great balance. Getting ready for work, commuting, and freezing in the office contribute to stress. I started timing my 15-minute workouts on my breaks when working from home, as this can't be done in my office. I also get a lot of food prep done on my remote work days because I have so much more time in the mornings. I also sleep better on my remote work days. There are trade-offs to both models, which is why the hybrid model, in my opinion, is the best of both worlds.
Hybrid is the worst for the employer. Limits the hiring pool (unlike remote), but also don't get the benefit of on site work (always empty office). It's a bad deal for the employer.
Agreed completely, I’ve worked 3 years full time remote and man the hybrid/blended schedule was awesome because I could get my socialization on some days and then work from home and have quiet time on the others. Working hybrid I was excited to go into work everyday I had to commute
@@patienceisalpha You can't have an "always empty office" with hybrid. That makes no sense. I've been working hybrid for years now and it works really well. And there is never an empty office.
did this guy just say getting up waking up commuting to a corporate office is “hardwired into us” bro what in the absolute hell are you talking about????? that should be embarrassing
Mandatory RTO led me to deep depression. Full time remote work brought me back to mental health. The RTO collusion of big business against the clear wishes of the workforce is a crime against public health.
Love the pod, but poor takes all around IMO: Scott - why should we have to create this new class of worker, the Care Worker, instead of just moving forward with the 2-3 days WFH? Assume Care Worker becomes a thing, are those who don’t have kids etc., expected to do more work because they choose not to have kids? Ed - This will get some people hanging out with their colleagues more, going for drinks in the evening, etc., but it doesn’t solve the loneliness problem. We need more 3rd spaces and places for people to engage in other hobbies, not more time in the office accompanied by terrible commuting and then lack of energy to do anything.
You guys usually are on point, but there could be so many more cool ways to build community than forcing people to sit in cubicles near each other. Similarly, as much as I love bars and alcohol, it isn't the missing component. You need people to recognize a thing we all grew up with playing on the kids on our block bc smartphones and streaming didn't exist, and TV got boring - people are fascinating and experiences with people are irreplaceable. Those experiences don't need to be office trauma bonds - they can also be adventures/hobbies/community-driven-orgs. But for people to have time/money to afford adventures and other community building activities is to fix the insane cost of living to income ratios for anyone under 60.
Exactly. Hobbies would be great, but they cost money that - Gen Z doesn't have, - low-income males don't have (the AR-15 group by the way) Those are key demo groups with the loneliness epidemic. So, even from a public policy perspective, there may be a more on-point alternative than a RTO mandate.
I usually agree with you guys but all this bs about being at the office being good for developing social connections is, well, a complete bs. If you want to be surrounded by interesting people get an interesting life. Get good in and passionate about something beyond what you do for a living (although being good in what you do for a living also helps) and you will be surrounded by other people with interesting lives. Being a New Yorker, I can tell you with 100% confidence level, daily commute doesn't enhance your life's quality...
yeah, Ed, the fact that I have to spend 9 hours in the office is EXACTLY why I don't want to spend the extra 2 hours to commute. I like my job and my colleagues, but we don't need to spend 40 hours in the office to combat loneliness, if the problem even exists. It doesn't look like you guys meet in an office to do this podcast, right?
Considering how much life experience Ed has of being born into a wealthy family that paid for his education and gave him a job, it is obvious that Ed is all knowing and wise.
Oh, Ed, young people won’t be able solve loneliness problems being in the office. It’s quite an opposite. Now they spend extra 1-2 hrs a day to commute, spend whole day being stuck in the meetings. And literally don’t have time/energy to even go out anywhere after.
Commuting to go stare at a screen in a cubicle is NOT a solution to "being social". I am a comms worker. A phone and PC and Internet are my tools. I don't need a water cooler conversation w a Baby Boomer who won't learn to rotate a PDF. F The Commute. NO! NO!
Yes! Exactly what I was thinking when I heard him say this - aside from the time suck of a commute, co-workers are often not your friends or a substitute for a social life..
@@nonope4390 Right? People talk about burn out and I guarantee you, our miserable commutes is the number 1 reason for burn out. Ever since I started remote work, my productivity has been thru the roof and I actually LOVE to work. It was the commute.
I work hybrid. On days I go in to the office, I lose over two hours traveling and don't do anything but work. On days I'm at home, I have both time and energy to go out afterwards. Plus, as a bonus, on home days I go for a couple of short walks during the day to boost energy or do walking meetings on the treadmill.
Ed, I respectfully disagree with you about office romance and relationships. I like most of the people I work with and I only go in one day a week, but come 5 p.m. I don't want to see anyone from work. I don't want to attend their weekend parties or weddings. In truth, I send very expensive and nice wedding gifts to avoid wasting my weekend attending their wedding. I like having a work life, a home life, and a friend life without any of them interacting. Most humans are terrible people who either want something from you, gossip, or are looking for ways to knock you down so they can climb the corporate ladder. I hope your g/f doesn't work with you. Just imagine you having an argument on a weekend and by Tuesday some of your coworkers are mad at you.
What if loneliess could be solved by putting your time into your community that you live in? You guys are preferencing offices as the penultimate community. I think you need to reframe.
People at work are not our friends; they are colleagues. The issue of friendship in the US has more to do with how we, as men, treat each other than anything else. Just look at all the school shootings-they aren't happening because people are kind to one another, but because of how we treat each other. The solution to social isolation isn't forcing people back into the office, which is a step backward. Instead, it lies in dismantling the "cool" culture and stopping the practice of valuing people based on what they own or how successful they are.
Disagree. When I worked in a tech office in my 20s almost all my friends were my coworkers. When I changed jobs and eventually worked from home (pre pandemic) it was so unmotivating and boring. I missed my colleagues, I slacked on my work in favor of house chores. My floors had never been so clean
@@cbar842 Two things: 1. Those who are good at making friends can make friends outside of work (in the hours saved on the commute!). I'm an introvert. Put me in the office 5 days a week; I guarantee I'll make zero friends, and my productivity drops at least 30%. 2. Things are different for older people. You will see that making friends becomes more difficult as you age (that's for men). So, what's the problem with letting people choose where they want to work from? Someone like you can go to the office for 5 days. Someone with 3 children might choose to go 2 days. Loneliness has absolutely nothing to do with WFH for 95% of people.
It’s a bit of a contradiction for Scott to go on about how young people are more attractive hires for companies in IT because they don’t have children and then go on to highlight the need for Amazon to create a protected class of employee who care for children. I think if he wasn’t concerned with pandering to everyone his analysis might have a bit more value.
Ed thinks Office Christmas parties get people together. 1. They do not. 2. Christmas is for my family, no employer will even call it that. It's "Holiday". Scott wants the youth to move to St Louis and drink alcohol together. Yikes! 😬
I think working remotely is ABSOLUTLY a possibility. I think Scott and Ed may be referring to these opportunities to bond and practice discipline by returning to the office is for people who don't participate in outside hobbies with other people. For some, THOSE spaces are where social interactions are most beneficial. Working in an office is mainly a hinderance for this. The office saps so much energy away from people that pursuing outside hobbies is difficult.
Lol has Ed worked a normal job in his life. wtf does he know about RTO combating loneliness, when amzn employees work 80 hours a week working in addition to the 4 hours of commute everyday. shocking disconnect between the actual realities
I swear dunking on unions is 1 of the lamest and most offensive things Ed and Scott do on a regular. If you don't plan to do any research skip the story. The WGA strikes were not solely about AI, it was about improving compensation and restructuring in the streaming age. They won: minimum staffing requirements, viewership transparency, streaming bonuses, and increased compensation. It was a successful strike. All demands were not achieved but this is true of most strikes. The immediate concern was that rich asshole execs would use AI to completely write a middling script and then underpay 1 writer to fix it. This was averted. Do. Your. Research.
All due respect Ed you are wrong. Your generation aren't the only ones affected here. I spent 10 year getting to the level where i can be trusted and rewarded to work from home. I get to have dinner with my family and although it might sound trivial but it make a word of differences to me. There is no silver bullet here, and i predict amazon will lose in the long run.
I'm sure this will be deleted but here goes nothing: For someone who rails against extremism (litterally within this video), please stop with the extreme view that we all need to return to the office. The better stance (at most) is a hybrid setup. The material benefit of not needing to be on the office 5 days a week is incalculable. Aside from the obvious, many of us are ambitious but would like to have a life outside the office and this is a zero cost way to support that. Furthermore, You litterally mention wanting to make workplaces more optimal for working moms. How about not forcing them in the office for asinine meetings that could be conducted remotely. Think of the burden reduction for a working mom not needing to be miles away from baby 8+ hours a day, not spending hours commuting both ways, and spending time/energy getting ready in the AM. Oh and if she does need to go in, now your stance is that her significant other need to go in? Please stop. Advocate for hybrid approach and stop with this myopic POV.
Do they want to work from bed? Their problem; why to impose what they can/cannot do. 2 guys dialling remotely, recording a show thousands of miles apart, telling others should go to the office. Give me a break!
Absolutely insane that someone with 3 years of work experience, most of it hosting a podcast from their bedroom is giving a lecture on 9-5 life being hardwired into our brains. Honestly sounded like talking points to make his boss happy rather than opinions based on lived experience.
Totally. Scott’s a smart guy (could do without the skeevy old man stuff) but the other kid is utterly useless (seems like a family friend/nepo thing). Nothing like being told to go back to the office by these types. A majority of companies barely break even, they’re moreso a luxury/brag to their friends situation for “rich” people (usually their wife and is a tax write off) and they love to go to “their” office, show off to their friends, and be waited on hand and foot by their “executive assistants”
I have 2 years of work experience, am absolutely not a rich person, and I also believe that returning to an office is good. Idk about 5 days a week but a hybrid schedule is perfect.
@@martinflores8708 do you think it’s better for your “mental health” or the bottom line of your employer? Or both? Sitting in traffic for hours is really bad for my mental health
@@ciojoe I think it's better for both. Most people don't sit an hour in traffic both ways. I live in LA and even here most people don't do that. I think ultimately the employer will benefit but what is important to me is the socializing that young workers will have access to. Making friends as an adult is not easy and most of us outgrow our childhood friends. Work is a great place to meet new people.
I wouldnt mind going into the office 40 hours a week if I could instantly get ready and teleport there. Getting ready and commuting (round trip) takes about 2 hours out of my day and time is precious.
I am convinced this back to work push is pressure coming from the very top of government, related to corporate real estate. Pension funds own these assets - commercial valuations are critical
Obviously a lot of criticism in these comments about the take on RTO, but one takeaway - don't work in your bed. Besides the work/life separation, discipline and the effect it will have on your sleep, working in a bed is the worst place to work ergonomically. Maybe with chair cushions, laptop holders etc. you can sit all day, but you'll wind up with all kinds of body issues much faster than working in a chair. To say nothing about your self-esteem.
Hypocrisy in Leadership: Many people see the return-to-office mandates as hypocritical, especially when company leaders themselves do not follow the same rules. Executives frequently travel, attend conferences, or work remotely-yet they mandate that rank-and-file employees be in the office five days a week. This reinforces the perception that these policies are more about control, ego, and financial concerns (e.g., justifying office real estate costs) than genuine concern for employee well-being. This double standard often erodes trust between employees and leadership. Remote and hybrid work models offer employees greater control over their personal lives, fostering well-being through balance rather than forcing them back into rigid office routines. Forward-thinking companies are realizing this and adapting to hybrid models that respect both the company's needs and employees' desire for a more flexible, balanced life.
As a Swede, I was deeply offended after Prof G's comments. While we regularly ride reindeer, fondue is from Switzerland! The ultimate insult! You don't even know who we are. You can make our nation whole by investing in my startup
Working is just not that great, really. I’m not lazy; I just can’t see a happy ending for me. There are many things wrong with corporate America. In short, we are being asked to do too much, and why aren’t people talking about the thousands of tech layoffs while companies are profitable and stock prices are at all-time highs? Am I the only one that feels like this, or are there others who share the same perceptions?
I think the disadvantages to workers who work from home are that they are subject to far more competition which will push down wages. If you can do your job from home, someone from Thailand, or India, or Nigeria can do it from home. Those individuals from other countries are just as smart, ambitious, and hard working. They just lack opportunity in their home country like we have in the US. Working in the office is an advantage for people to be build relationships, lead teams, and fast track themselves. It is very difficult to differentiate yourself at home. And if you can differentiate from home, someone in another country can probably do so as well, but for a lot cheaper.
If you're going to advocate for commuting as a way of life, you should also support changing zoning laws that restrict development to detached single-family homes. Multi-story, multi-family housing in areas like Glendale, Burbank, or Studio City, CA, makes far more sense than commuting by car from places like Santa Clarita.
Starlink has been an absolute game-changer for me. We live rurally in New Zealand and couldn't live without it now. We pay equivalent of USD$100 per month. If it ever lists I will be buying shares!
Ed is so wrong on this one, never had i more time for other activities than from work from home , because once you dont have to commute 1hour to and 1hour back home , suddenly you have time and energy for extra activities, not to mention im more productive than ever because of the extra energy not being lost to commute
I would just like to share that I was far happier working from home than going into an office. I am in my mid 20s. I worked fully remote for a year, ive worked half remote for 2 years, and ive worked fully onsite in an office for 3 years. Ive been fully in the office for 2 years straight now. While i agree there are benefits of being in person, i think those benefits stop after about 1-2 days per week in person. After that the cons start to outweigh the benefits such as all the commuting, the feeling that you are wasting your time being inefficient (i am far more efficient at home). Fully remote is wrong. Fully in office is wrong. Depending on the job it should be 25-50% in office for maximum benefits.
The amount of people trashing returning to office is ridiculous in these comments. No one lives in a black box or the same box as you and Ed actually makes valid points. I'm 29 years old and have been working remotely since 2019. I'm married and I have kids, both things i'm incredibly blessed to have. HOWEVER, having a full-time job, caring about my fitness, and having a family has isolated me from most the people I had relationships with from school (no one wants to hang out with the guy who has kids or doesn't party). Going into office an OPPORTUNITY to conversate with people working on similar problems as you, the chance to find mentors, and an ability to change up the work environment which is important for some people. Working from home is not the answer and I get forcing people back 5 days a week isnt either, but there are many pro's to going into office that not many people are willing to say out loud.
One thought on accommodating mothers or care workers: Have to be careful of people taking advantage of it. Typically when help is offered in the US it gets vastly exploited by people who don’t need any help or refuse to work because they get help. Other than that completely agree a mother should have different accommodations.
I think the reason Hollywood is in decline is that the recent content is not that good eg when was the last time we had a must see tv show or movie like 1917 or Narcos!
I get where they are coming from in terms of RTO helping to improve connections and mental health (given a healthy workplace) but what Scott & Ed failed to address is that Amazon went from 3 days to 5 days RTO. I doubt if there is any statistical evidence that going from 3 to 5 improved mental health by x%, coz 3 days should already have brought about the benefits that they claimed (if any). 5 days simply removes any flexibility from the equation and does seem intended to get people to leave inexpensively for Amazon.
Hey Ed…just some friendly trolling here, from a former British subject: With your straight, bright white teeth now, you’re going to lose your bona fides as a Brit! You’re looking great, young man! Congrats on growing your brand with speaking engagements! I’m happy for you!
But....but....but no one forces you to work remotely. You can work from home and also go to the office a few days a week to chat to people. What is the issue here or am I missing something?
Ed, the art of software engineering is a very lonely discipline. A lot of software engineers spend an entire day at the office without talking to a single person (dont ask how i know). On the mating subject, it doesnt work too well for software guys either - the offices are over 90% male and open offices kill any conversations.
Can you bring in an expert on American white collar workers being outsourced? What barriers are preventing firms from shipping six figures jobs to India?
As an Interior Designer who has lived in San Francisco, Los Angeles & San Diego (but originally from rural virginia).... good luck being a successful interior designer in some random small town! The big opportunities & jobs that pay (not to mention where the arts and creativity are) are in the cities! Id live in NYC in a heartbeat if i could tolerate the climate (even if it meant a tiny studio just to be around those opportunities). But, totally agree we can think bigger, I'm still relatively mobile and well traveled and have considered Barcelona, Madrid, Mexico City etc. Opportunity and an amazing quality of life does exist elsewhere in the world (but id be miserable im BF middle of nowhere america with the strip malls and chain restaurants)... for some of us culture is very important too!
Question to the crowd here: Has anyone tried any coworking space? (like a WeWork before they went bankrupt) In your experience, did people socialize outside of their own little bubble or was it pretty much an "alone together" situation? Too bad if there's no bonding in such an environment.
People would be much happier if a single working adult could provide a comfortable living for the entire family-like it was in the past. I'm not suggesting we revert to old ways, but there is societal value in being a stay-at-home spouse, whether as a househusband or housewife.
Scott, love you brother, but you absolutely missed the mark on the actors strike. You called a total loss but actors got unprecedented control of their images. This new headline only seems to underscore how very wrong you were. This is not just a win for an actor. It’s a win for everyone who doesn’t want to see their own daughter in deep fake porn. I appreciate that you are trying to square the circle of being a humanitarian capitalist but It’s becoming clear that pro market is starting to mean anti-human. Your TEDTalk was beautiful, and then I hear you giving advice to entire industries about how you should be mobile and moved to a different country where it’s cheap? Bro, I don’t get the message here.
Prof G, please take the ego down 20 notches. SWEDES are not Fondue eaters. The SWISS are. And Savoyard French. Please stop being blatantly false in your take downs as it’s getting more and more alzheimers reminiscent. It’s also starting to show in the cracks in your understanding of markets and left, right, centrist policy understandings.
Yeah, this is disappointing-some nonsensical BS about RTO. We just had the hottest summer in history, and there are countless online collaboration tools that make people more connected and productive than ever. Yet suddenly, RTO is being pushed as beneficial? It feels like a romanticized view of office culture with no data to support its benefits. Also, making friends at work is overrated-build a life outside of the office, get some healthy hobbies and interests, and make friends who aren't your coworkers. Plus, workplace drinking culture is toxic; it creates cliques and fosters bullying.
Ed I’m sorry but it’s very hypocritical when I don’t think I’ve ever even seen you in an office
He went to boarding school, then princeton, then Scott hired him as a nepo hire.
Correct me if i am wrong, but dont Scott and Ed both do this show remotely? As in not in the same room at the same time? As in getting to work from home? There is literally a bed behind Ed.
complete bs on that segment
To be fair, I think he's in a hotel room. Otherwise I've completely lost respect for him for the choice of drapes.
Hes saying he realized recently that people should go back. He didnt say he loved working from his room or a hotel. Hes saying he thinks its a good idea to go back which he didnt exempt himself from. Lets get more constructive comments
A group of people on zoom telling us we need to be in an office. Give me a break.
Not very constructive
I just have to say that it’s return to OFFICE, not return to work. No one has stopped working. In fact, we now work more efficiently being away from the confines of being in daily detention, not having to use the bathroom in tandem with our colleagues (super helpful team building initiative), and not having to make bullshit small talk / be regularly interrupted from doing our jobs. Hence, work done faster, less errors, more free time to learn new technologies, read the news, learn about the world, become a better human. This mandate of Amazon’s will backfire one way or another, in time.
Remote, even hybrid work, has allowed me to be more present for my kids in a way my father wasn't.
Ed, going to the office and spending an hour commuting each way leaves almost no time for socializing afterwards. Why waste that time daily?
The hypothesis here is that the net amount of social interaction will be increased even with the increased commute. I don’t disagree
I think a flex schedule would be a good in-between. Meeting my coworkers in person for the first time at my new-ish job changed the dynamic so much, for the better.
But it is nice not spending 45min+ commuting everyday, dealing with train delays, stress, and the added money of doing so.
Not only that, but modern offices (open spaces, no privacy) are setup to induce stress and performance anxiety. They are not healthy places to work at all, that being said I don't think going to the office is the end of the world, touching base with everyone twice a week in person is fine.
I would note that a lot of people I know who have returned to office say they go to the office and sit alone taking Zoom meetings. Living here in Seattle I hear about Amazon a bit and heard of one woman who goes into the office, sits alone in the cafeteria drinking coffee - because she has not a single team member in Seattle - then goes home to work. It's an enormous waste of people's time and people resent it. A lot. I've heard rumor that this five day a week push is in part because they can't even get people to do the original three days.
"I know people that work in bed and never change out of their pajamas and that's why people are lonely. It's good that Amazon is forcing everyone to the office," says the entitled podcaster with an unmade bed in the background.
It’s a bit rich considering that there’s no way in hell he goes into an office 5 days/week.
A cynical, but entirely within the realm of possibility, view is that RTO is being used to lower quality of work-life and result in people quitting (read: firing without severance).
Bring everyone back to office 5 days a week, 9-5. Say the people working from their own home spaces, Including from abroad. ‘Do as I say, Not as I do’ vibes
Forcing people with families, kids and spouses into the office to solve loneliness. Great take.
How about lonely people go into the office, and the ones with a full-filled life, that ask for balance, work from where they please?
Also, will help small economies. Wall Street is probably still at 50% capacity...maybe less. Vendors, restaurants, small biz
You don't have to take an all-or-nothing approach to remote/office work. Hybrid models work really well. You get some time in the office to hang with others, while cutting down on stress and commute time on other days. It's a great balance. Getting ready for work, commuting, and freezing in the office contribute to stress. I started timing my 15-minute workouts on my breaks when working from home, as this can't be done in my office. I also get a lot of food prep done on my remote work days because I have so much more time in the mornings. I also sleep better on my remote work days. There are trade-offs to both models, which is why the hybrid model, in my opinion, is the best of both worlds.
Hybrid is the worst for the employer. Limits the hiring pool (unlike remote), but also don't get the benefit of on site work (always empty office). It's a bad deal for the employer.
@@patienceisalpha Requiring 5 days a week in office is limiting your hiring pool more than hybrid. Many just won't go for that these days.
Agreed completely, I’ve worked 3 years full time remote and man the hybrid/blended schedule was awesome because I could get my socialization on some days and then work from home and have quiet time on the others. Working hybrid I was excited to go into work everyday I had to commute
@@patienceisalpha You can't have an "always empty office" with hybrid. That makes no sense. I've been working hybrid for years now and it works really well. And there is never an empty office.
did this guy just say getting up waking up commuting to a corporate office is “hardwired into us” bro what in the absolute hell are you talking about????? that should be embarrassing
Ed come on- sitting in traffic on our commute is “hard wired into us” 😂
Mandatory RTO led me to deep depression. Full time remote work brought me back to mental health. The RTO collusion of big business against the clear wishes of the workforce is a crime against public health.
Someday I’ll join you, but for now I suffer in an office 3x/week. Could be worse, I guess.
@@golfinguru11 I took a pay cut, but I'm more motivated than ever to help this business succeed.
@@golfinguru11 I took a pay cut, but I'm much more motivated to help this business succeed.
Love the pod, but poor takes all around IMO:
Scott - why should we have to create this new class of worker, the Care Worker, instead of just moving forward with the 2-3 days WFH? Assume Care Worker becomes a thing, are those who don’t have kids etc., expected to do more work because they choose not to have kids?
Ed - This will get some people hanging out with their colleagues more, going for drinks in the evening, etc., but it doesn’t solve the loneliness problem. We need more 3rd spaces and places for people to engage in other hobbies, not more time in the office accompanied by terrible commuting and then lack of energy to do anything.
Yeah, you nailed it with hobbies.
You guys usually are on point, but there could be so many more cool ways to build community than forcing people to sit in cubicles near each other. Similarly, as much as I love bars and alcohol, it isn't the missing component. You need people to recognize a thing we all grew up with playing on the kids on our block bc smartphones and streaming didn't exist, and TV got boring - people are fascinating and experiences with people are irreplaceable. Those experiences don't need to be office trauma bonds - they can also be adventures/hobbies/community-driven-orgs. But for people to have time/money to afford adventures and other community building activities is to fix the insane cost of living to income ratios for anyone under 60.
Exactly.
Hobbies would be great, but they cost money that
- Gen Z doesn't have,
- low-income males don't have (the AR-15 group by the way)
Those are key demo groups with the loneliness epidemic.
So, even from a public policy perspective, there may be a more on-point alternative than a RTO mandate.
I usually agree with you guys but all this bs about being at the office being good for developing social connections is, well, a complete bs. If you want to be surrounded by interesting people get an interesting life. Get good in and passionate about something beyond what you do for a living (although being good in what you do for a living also helps) and you will be surrounded by other people with interesting lives. Being a New Yorker, I can tell you with 100% confidence level, daily commute doesn't enhance your life's quality...
yeah, Ed, the fact that I have to spend 9 hours in the office is EXACTLY why I don't want to spend the extra 2 hours to commute. I like my job and my colleagues, but we don't need to spend 40 hours in the office to combat loneliness, if the problem even exists. It doesn't look like you guys meet in an office to do this podcast, right?
Needless to say it doesn’t do much for loneliness if you’re on meetings all day or programming
Honestly at this point on site jobs need to be dispersed to the entry level demographic
Considering how much life experience Ed has of being born into a wealthy family that paid for his education and gave him a job, it is obvious that Ed is all knowing and wise.
Return to Office for thee, recording the pod in a hotel room for meeeee
@@magalengo completely, never worked a day in an office in his life.
Oh, Ed, young people won’t be able solve loneliness problems being in the office. It’s quite an opposite. Now they spend extra 1-2 hrs a day to commute, spend whole day being stuck in the meetings. And literally don’t have time/energy to even go out anywhere after.
Gen Z had gen AI they don't need anything else.
Commuting to go stare at a screen in a cubicle is NOT a solution to "being social".
I am a comms worker. A phone and PC and Internet are my tools. I don't need a water cooler conversation w a Baby Boomer who won't learn to rotate a PDF.
F The Commute. NO!
NO!
@@nathangill8404 Can’t masturbate to porn while between projects at the office? Life is SO unfair to you…!
Yes! Exactly what I was thinking when I heard him say this - aside from the time suck of a commute, co-workers are often not your friends or a substitute for a social life..
Majority of people do not have 1-2 hr commutes. As a younger millennial, coming into the office and seeing other people is a huge deal for me.
Sorry, don't force the rest of us back to the office. It should be a CHOICE!
It is a *choice*! Get a paycheck…or not!
If I can do my work at home better than in the office with faster timelines, I can stay at home :)
@@rikachiu As Kipling said, "If".
Giving up 15 hours in commuting or an additional 25% of my income to live closer to the office is a no-go.
@@nonope4390 Right? People talk about burn out and I guarantee you, our miserable commutes is the number 1 reason for burn out. Ever since I started remote work, my productivity has been thru the roof and I actually LOVE to work. It was the commute.
I would take a huge pay cut to remain fully remote. It allows me to visit my friends and travel the world, couldn’t imagine going back.
I work hybrid. On days I go in to the office, I lose over two hours traveling and don't do anything but work. On days I'm at home, I have both time and energy to go out afterwards. Plus, as a bonus, on home days I go for a couple of short walks during the day to boost energy or do walking meetings on the treadmill.
Has anyone here ever actually seen Ed in an office?
He's totally kissing Scott's ass with that nonsense he's spouting
Exactly my thought! There is a freakin bed BEHIND him lmao
And this guy doesn’t have kids
He’s been handed everything and hasn’t worked a day in his life it’s easy for him to imagine what work is like
Ed is a smart likeable dude. Doesn't negate the possibility that he comes from privilege
Ed, I respectfully disagree with you about office romance and relationships. I like most of the people I work with and I only go in one day a week, but come 5 p.m. I don't want to see anyone from work. I don't want to attend their weekend parties or weddings. In truth, I send very expensive and nice wedding gifts to avoid wasting my weekend attending their wedding. I like having a work life, a home life, and a friend life without any of them interacting. Most humans are terrible people who either want something from you, gossip, or are looking for ways to knock you down so they can climb the corporate ladder.
I hope your g/f doesn't work with you. Just imagine you having an argument on a weekend and by Tuesday some of your coworkers are mad at you.
What if loneliess could be solved by putting your time into your community that you live in? You guys are preferencing offices as the penultimate community. I think you need to reframe.
People at work are not our friends; they are colleagues. The issue of friendship in the US has more to do with how we, as men, treat each other than anything else. Just look at all the school shootings-they aren't happening because people are kind to one another, but because of how we treat each other. The solution to social isolation isn't forcing people back into the office, which is a step backward. Instead, it lies in dismantling the "cool" culture and stopping the practice of valuing people based on what they own or how successful they are.
Disagree. When I worked in a tech office in my 20s almost all my friends were my coworkers. When I changed jobs and eventually worked from home (pre pandemic) it was so unmotivating and boring. I missed my colleagues, I slacked on my work in favor of house chores. My floors had never been so clean
@@cbar842 Two things: 1. Those who are good at making friends can make friends outside of work (in the hours saved on the commute!). I'm an introvert. Put me in the office 5 days a week; I guarantee I'll make zero friends, and my productivity drops at least 30%.
2. Things are different for older people. You will see that making friends becomes more difficult as you age (that's for men). So, what's the problem with letting people choose where they want to work from? Someone like you can go to the office for 5 days. Someone with 3 children might choose to go 2 days. Loneliness has absolutely nothing to do with WFH for 95% of people.
So fking hilarious when Ed puts as example Scott who enjoys StarLink internet on private planes and yachts😂
This ☝
It’s a bit of a contradiction for Scott to go on about how young people are more attractive hires for companies in IT because they don’t have children and then go on to highlight the need for Amazon to create a protected class of employee who care for children. I think if he wasn’t concerned with pandering to everyone his analysis might have a bit more value.
Lonely people shouldn't count on their employer to give them friends. They need to figure that out for themselves.
Loneliness was going up before remote work became a thing.
Ed thinks Office Christmas parties get people together.
1. They do not.
2. Christmas is for my family, no employer will even call it that. It's "Holiday".
Scott wants the youth to move to St Louis and drink alcohol together.
Yikes! 😬
I have never been to a good office Christmas party where i didnt want to leave after 20 minutes.... and i am 41.
I think working remotely is ABSOLUTLY a possibility. I think Scott and Ed may be referring to these opportunities to bond and practice discipline by returning to the office is for people who don't participate in outside hobbies with other people. For some, THOSE spaces are where social interactions are most beneficial. Working in an office is mainly a hinderance for this. The office saps so much energy away from people that pursuing outside hobbies is difficult.
Lol has Ed worked a normal job in his life. wtf does he know about RTO combating loneliness, when amzn employees work 80 hours a week working in addition to the 4 hours of commute everyday. shocking disconnect between the actual realities
I swear dunking on unions is 1 of the lamest and most offensive things Ed and Scott do on a regular. If you don't plan to do any research skip the story.
The WGA strikes were not solely about AI, it was about improving compensation and restructuring in the streaming age. They won: minimum staffing requirements, viewership transparency, streaming bonuses, and increased compensation. It was a successful strike. All demands were not achieved but this is true of most strikes. The immediate concern was that rich asshole execs would use AI to completely write a middling script and then underpay 1 writer to fix it. This was averted. Do. Your. Research.
All due respect Ed you are wrong. Your generation aren't the only ones affected here. I spent 10 year getting to the level where i can be trusted and rewarded to work from home. I get to have dinner with my family and although it might sound trivial but it make a word of differences to me. There is no silver bullet here, and i predict amazon will lose in the long run.
Fondue is not Swedish, it's Swiss... Try Gravlax or meatballs :D
I'll take the latter 2 any day.
I'm sure this will be deleted but here goes nothing: For someone who rails against extremism (litterally within this video), please stop with the extreme view that we all need to return to the office. The better stance (at most) is a hybrid setup. The material benefit of not needing to be on the office 5 days a week is incalculable. Aside from the obvious, many of us are ambitious but would like to have a life outside the office and this is a zero cost way to support that.
Furthermore, You litterally mention wanting to make workplaces more optimal for working moms. How about not forcing them in the office for asinine meetings that could be conducted remotely. Think of the burden reduction for a working mom not needing to be miles away from baby 8+ hours a day, not spending hours commuting both ways, and spending time/energy getting ready in the AM. Oh and if she does need to go in, now your stance is that her significant other need to go in? Please stop. Advocate for hybrid approach and stop with this myopic POV.
Do they want to work from bed? Their problem; why to impose what they can/cannot do. 2 guys dialling remotely, recording a show thousands of miles apart, telling others should go to the office. Give me a break!
Absolutely insane that someone with 3 years of work experience, most of it hosting a podcast from their bedroom is giving a lecture on 9-5 life being hardwired into our brains. Honestly sounded like talking points to make his boss happy rather than opinions based on lived experience.
Totally. Scott’s a smart guy (could do without the skeevy old man stuff) but the other kid is utterly useless (seems like a family friend/nepo thing). Nothing like being told to go back to the office by these types. A majority of companies barely break even, they’re moreso a luxury/brag to their friends situation for “rich” people (usually their wife and is a tax write off) and they love to go to “their” office, show off to their friends, and be waited on hand and foot by their “executive assistants”
he is smart. kiss the boss and he will get awarded.
I have 2 years of work experience, am absolutely not a rich person, and I also believe that returning to an office is good. Idk about 5 days a week but a hybrid schedule is perfect.
@@martinflores8708 do you think it’s better for your “mental health” or the bottom line of your employer? Or both? Sitting in traffic for hours is really bad for my mental health
@@ciojoe I think it's better for both. Most people don't sit an hour in traffic both ways. I live in LA and even here most people don't do that. I think ultimately the employer will benefit but what is important to me is the socializing that young workers will have access to. Making friends as an adult is not easy and most of us outgrow our childhood friends. Work is a great place to meet new people.
I'm not so sure AI will be the end of Hollywood. Making AI junk will be easy, but I feel that will make "human-made" movies more in demand.
I wouldnt mind going into the office 40 hours a week if I could instantly get ready and teleport there. Getting ready and commuting (round trip) takes about 2 hours out of my day and time is precious.
Ed - you can't force people to be sociable. You offer more opportunities or a better experience at work or wherever, than staying at home.
I am convinced this back to work push is pressure coming from the very top of government, related to corporate real estate.
Pension funds own these assets - commercial valuations are critical
My old math teacher allowed me to use a calculator he said “ you’ll just get the wrong answer faster “ 😂 needless to say I wasn’t great at math😂
Irony of Ed saying this about working from home with his bed in the background !
Ed is now doing the heavy lifting for the content
Will you both be returning to the office 5 days a week?
Obviously a lot of criticism in these comments about the take on RTO, but one takeaway - don't work in your bed. Besides the work/life separation, discipline and the effect it will have on your sleep, working in a bed is the worst place to work ergonomically. Maybe with chair cushions, laptop holders etc. you can sit all day, but you'll wind up with all kinds of body issues much faster than working in a chair. To say nothing about your self-esteem.
Hypocrisy in Leadership: Many people see the return-to-office mandates as hypocritical, especially when company leaders themselves do not follow the same rules. Executives frequently travel, attend conferences, or work remotely-yet they mandate that rank-and-file employees be in the office five days a week. This reinforces the perception that these policies are more about control, ego, and financial concerns (e.g., justifying office real estate costs) than genuine concern for employee well-being. This double standard often erodes trust between employees and leadership. Remote and hybrid work models offer employees greater control over their personal lives, fostering well-being through balance rather than forcing them back into rigid office routines. Forward-thinking companies are realizing this and adapting to hybrid models that respect both the company's needs and employees' desire for a more flexible, balanced life.
As a Swede, I was deeply offended after Prof G's comments. While we regularly ride reindeer, fondue is from Switzerland! The ultimate insult! You don't even know who we are. You can make our nation whole by investing in my startup
I love the start of show off-pod chats. The Broadwalk Empire of Market Insights podcasts
Working is just not that great, really. I’m not lazy; I just can’t see a happy ending for me. There are many things wrong with corporate America. In short, we are being asked to do too much, and why aren’t people talking about the thousands of tech layoffs while companies are profitable and stock prices are at all-time highs? Am I the only one that feels like this, or are there others who share the same perceptions?
Amazing, Galloway managed to combine Swiss and Swede stereotypes whether knowingly or unknowingly
Going back to the office will not solve loneliness. Give me a break. Weak argument and weak analysis.
Good grief Ed, even Jamie Dimon wouldn't come up with such a bad take on RTO 🤣🤣🤣
I think the disadvantages to workers who work from home are that they are subject to far more competition which will push down wages.
If you can do your job from home, someone from Thailand, or India, or Nigeria can do it from home.
Those individuals from other countries are just as smart, ambitious, and hard working. They just lack opportunity in their home country like we have in the US.
Working in the office is an advantage for people to be build relationships, lead teams, and fast track themselves.
It is very difficult to differentiate yourself at home. And if you can differentiate from home, someone in another country can probably do so as well, but for a lot cheaper.
If you're going to advocate for commuting as a way of life, you should also support changing zoning laws that restrict development to detached single-family homes. Multi-story, multi-family housing in areas like Glendale, Burbank, or Studio City, CA, makes far more sense than commuting by car from places like Santa Clarita.
"La palabra buena" is going to be my new band name
Starlink has been an absolute game-changer for me. We live rurally in New Zealand and couldn't live without it now. We pay equivalent of USD$100 per month. If it ever lists I will be buying shares!
Ed is so wrong on this one, never had i more time for other activities than from work from home , because once you dont have to commute 1hour to and 1hour back home , suddenly you have time and energy for extra activities, not to mention im more productive than ever because of the extra energy not being lost to commute
I would just like to share that I was far happier working from home than going into an office.
I am in my mid 20s. I worked fully remote for a year, ive worked half remote for 2 years, and ive worked fully onsite in an office for 3 years. Ive been fully in the office for 2 years straight now.
While i agree there are benefits of being in person, i think those benefits stop after about 1-2 days per week in person. After that the cons start to outweigh the benefits such as all the commuting, the feeling that you are wasting your time being inefficient (i am far more efficient at home).
Fully remote is wrong. Fully in office is wrong. Depending on the job it should be 25-50% in office for maximum benefits.
The amount of people trashing returning to office is ridiculous in these comments. No one lives in a black box or the same box as you and Ed actually makes valid points. I'm 29 years old and have been working remotely since 2019. I'm married and I have kids, both things i'm incredibly blessed to have. HOWEVER, having a full-time job, caring about my fitness, and having a family has isolated me from most the people I had relationships with from school (no one wants to hang out with the guy who has kids or doesn't party). Going into office an OPPORTUNITY to conversate with people working on similar problems as you, the chance to find mentors, and an ability to change up the work environment which is important for some people.
Working from home is not the answer and I get forcing people back 5 days a week isnt either, but there are many pro's to going into office that not many people are willing to say out loud.
Hollywood creatives need to form production companies.
I have to suffer because kids are lonely? No thanks.
One thought on accommodating mothers or care workers: Have to be careful of people taking advantage of it. Typically when help is offered in the US it gets vastly exploited by people who don’t need any help or refuse to work because they get help.
Other than that completely agree a mother should have different accommodations.
If healthy children create a healthy society, then why would we prioritize work over care of our children?
Yeah Actors and directors Love Albuquerque and spending Months in Ireland to make a show.
I think the reason Hollywood is in decline is that the recent content is not that good eg when was the last time we had a must see tv show or movie like 1917 or Narcos!
Three days a week should be enough for you to solve whatever loneliness problems you have
Would like to get Scott's opinion on AST SpaceMobile and its possibility to disrupt Starlink
United NEEDS that Starlink partnership...their customer service these last 5-years 👎🏾
I get where they are coming from in terms of RTO helping to improve connections and mental health (given a healthy workplace) but what Scott & Ed failed to address is that Amazon went from 3 days to 5 days RTO. I doubt if there is any statistical evidence that going from 3 to 5 improved mental health by x%, coz 3 days should already have brought about the benefits that they claimed (if any). 5 days simply removes any flexibility from the equation and does seem intended to get people to leave inexpensively for Amazon.
Offering my advice, "You can make that contract, but it would not preclude federal law ".They asked me to leave the meeting.
Hey Ed…just some friendly trolling here, from a former British subject: With your straight, bright white teeth now, you’re going to lose your bona fides as a Brit! You’re looking great, young man! Congrats on growing your brand with speaking engagements! I’m happy for you!
Loneliness exists in the office too…
But....but....but no one forces you to work remotely. You can work from home and also go to the office a few days a week to chat to people. What is the issue here or am I missing something?
Ed, the art of software engineering is a very lonely discipline. A lot of software engineers spend an entire day at the office without talking to a single person (dont ask how i know).
On the mating subject, it doesnt work too well for software guys either - the offices are over 90% male and open offices kill any conversations.
Have you ever looked at ASTS? AST Space Mobile? What do you think of that company?
your co host is a dingus, what a horrendous reason to justify forcing people back into the office.
I listen to ads because of the background music
@theprofgshow Did you see the problem w the writers strike as it happened or see the "writing on the wall" after the negotiations?
I love the NPR style advertising, very cool, I actually listened to it.
Trump: “They’re eating the cats, they’re eating the dogs”
Rfk: “Hold my bear”
What's his deal with a "bear"? One of his many hallucinations?
@wholeNwon He found a dead bear cub in the woods that he left in central park (allegedly)
@@Masterdebater-q5c Thanks, I remember now. What a nut job.
"Hold my Sister" - priceless
Foundue is typical for Switzerland, not Sweden. Not the same Countries.
Can you bring in an expert on American white collar workers being outsourced? What barriers are preventing firms from shipping six figures jobs to India?
Is there a speaking gig you won't turn down Prof G?
What Energy ETF represents this growth?... asking for a friend.
I think one should be really desperate if they have to commute to the office just because it's the only place where they have "friends".
As an Interior Designer who has lived in San Francisco, Los Angeles & San Diego (but originally from rural virginia).... good luck being a successful interior designer in some random small town! The big opportunities & jobs that pay (not to mention where the arts and creativity are) are in the cities! Id live in NYC in a heartbeat if i could tolerate the climate (even if it meant a tiny studio just to be around those opportunities). But, totally agree we can think bigger, I'm still relatively mobile and well traveled and have considered Barcelona, Madrid, Mexico City etc. Opportunity and an amazing quality of life does exist elsewhere in the world (but id be miserable im BF middle of nowhere america with the strip malls and chain restaurants)... for some of us culture is very important too!
You don't get to pick your coworkers or managers. Solve your loneliness with church or hobbies. Work from an office is optional and inefficient.
Question to the crowd here: Has anyone tried any coworking space? (like a WeWork before they went bankrupt) In your experience, did people socialize outside of their own little bubble or was it pretty much an "alone together" situation? Too bad if there's no bonding in such an environment.
People would be much happier if a single working adult could provide a comfortable living for the entire family-like it was in the past. I'm not suggesting we revert to old ways, but there is societal value in being a stay-at-home spouse, whether as a househusband or housewife.
Didn't the likes GE also tried to become an asset management company?
Also, if everything becomes AI, how do people make money to consume anything?
You've actually made me feel sorry for Hollywood. Crikey! It's not happy news. You need that eco-system of creatives.
Nobody likes a sore winner. "Victory lap."
Scott, love you brother, but you absolutely missed the mark on the actors strike. You called a total loss but actors got unprecedented control of their images. This new headline only seems to underscore how very wrong you were. This is not just a win for an actor. It’s a win for everyone who doesn’t want to see their own daughter in deep fake porn.
I appreciate that you are trying to square the circle of being a humanitarian capitalist but It’s becoming clear that pro market is starting to mean anti-human. Your TEDTalk was beautiful, and then I hear you giving advice to entire industries about how you should be mobile and moved to a different country where it’s cheap? Bro, I don’t get the message here.
There is too much support in the middle. Please spread out the ads.
Please bring on Gary Stevenson (Garys Economics)! Thanks!
Prof G, please take the ego down 20 notches.
SWEDES are not Fondue eaters. The SWISS are. And Savoyard French.
Please stop being blatantly false in your take downs as it’s getting more and more alzheimers reminiscent.
It’s also starting to show in the cracks in your understanding of markets and left, right, centrist policy understandings.
Yeah, this is disappointing-some nonsensical BS about RTO. We just had the hottest summer in history, and there are countless online collaboration tools that make people more connected and productive than ever. Yet suddenly, RTO is being pushed as beneficial? It feels like a romanticized view of office culture with no data to support its benefits. Also, making friends at work is overrated-build a life outside of the office, get some healthy hobbies and interests, and make friends who aren't your coworkers. Plus, workplace drinking culture is toxic; it creates cliques and fosters bullying.