Paul, you are absolutely the best at "unpacking" complicated questions and making them easy to understand. You are a man who truly knows his stuff, and that is what makes a great teacher. Thank you.
I have a Schitt audio MODI external DAC hooked up to a DVD player and yes the difference is noticeable from the first few notes. Next experiment for me is to run the output from the DAC to a tube buffered phono pre-amp with an AUX input just for Schitts and giggles, lol.
@@lynnpoole7830 I have a Little Bear tube buffered preamp on my turntable and I must say it sounds amazing!! they are pretty cheap like 79$ it's worth a listen!!
I kind of already knew this because of course the data being read off the CD is digital but thanks for spelling it out so clearly Paul. I hope you had a chance to come to New Zealand! Maybe bloody Covid put the kybosh on those plans if you didn't make it. Thanks mate, all the best.
I still can't get my head around why the quality of a CD transport would make any difference to the sound (beyond extremely bad ones). I've seen videos saying people can hear the difference but because the signal coming out the thing to the DAC (possibly along an optical line) is still digital whether one transport is better or worse than another is totally quantifiable. It either is the same bit stream or not and this could be tested. But I don't see people reporting on this. Maybe I'm not paying attention. Even a cruddy old CD player in a 1990s computer had to read all the bits in order and 100% correct or your software wouldn't run. There are check bits in the stream to ensure it.
Too much jitter for the DAC? Maybe the DAC has poor or no jitter/reclocker functions and so a better transport, with less jitter, then results in better sound.
I bought my first transport (Cambridge) a month ago and love it, its not just an internal dac , its the buffering, etc,thats the problem ,a decent DAC hooked to a decent drive makes a difference
I got Jay’s audio cdt3 mk 2 transport and DAC 2 signature. Sound is amazing, especially using proper damping and isolation and great MF amps. CD is similar to vinyl, lots to squeeze out if you have the time/money/passion.
My player is Shanling SCDT200C. It has been upgraded by adding 2 active clocks for its cd & SACD. Result: the high notes of piano (I like listening to solo piano) less sharp. I also upgraded its 4 of its I/V (current to voltage) ICs which is its DAC by using discrete curcuits (individual transistors instead of IC). Result: sound becomes more open. And I replaced its input caps with Multicaps (inside thr r 10 small caps parareled/ bypassed to lower its impedance) & to bypass its main elco caps with 1/1000 of it on SS & valve outputs. Result: better midrange & high. I l listened it wth a good headphone. Definitely thr r improvements. I connect its Coax digital output to an external/ dedicated DAC which has better performance. Result : sound is thicker. Definitely better sound.
I've been trying to get this answer all week, finally found you. Thank you for the clear a concise answer as to whether or not to add an external DAC to a CD player
The $150 Sony CD players from the '90s had excellent hifi output, so obviously they came with good internal DACs. Problem is this: If you rip CD digital data to your PC/Mac HD, how to get equivalent analog hifi output through an external DAC. So far, I've tried a few < $200 DACs and they come no where near the original $150 Sony CD players in hifi quality. So what gives? Do I need to spend $2000 for a DAC that essentially came for free in the old CD players? The cost/quality ratio does not make sense, especially since the price of digital technology has been coming down for the last 30 years.
Thanks for sharing that observation. Also, when I tried optical or coaxial audio out it sounded appreciably worse to me than the standard RCA outputs. This is on a Sony SACD player, circa the early 2000s.
Maybe you just like a certain sound from the older DAC, but it may not be as transparent as modern equipment? Maybe find out how to modify the CD player to use just the DAC part with a PC :)
@@RennieAsh Difference in quality is massive. I've researched whether I can just use the CD Player DAC and can't find a thing. Thank you for your thoughts.
PC out HDMI to a TV monitor. TV coax or Toslink Optical out to DAC. The point is that the entire pipeline needs to be digital until it hits the DAC. Then analog (RCA or XLR) to your amp/speakers. The DAC inside the CD player costs $3.00 and has the same sound quality as a cell phone or tablet with 3.5mm out. Both are analog as they hit the input of your amp/speaker system. The external DAC has chip processors and op amps to elevate the CONVERSION to analog for better sound.
Outside/ dedicated DAC has better performance (it also has cleaner PSU which lower digital noise resulting background sound is darker) than a cd player's inside DAC. Is it because it can process more digital signal (data) per-second ? That's why the sound is thicker, better dynamic & better soundstage (sound is more 3D). This is my understanding. Is true ?
I am an unrepentant physical media kind of guy and have a venerable Arcam DV135 not-quite-universal player (no blu-ray and stereo only output although it still plays multi-channel SACDs and DVD-As just fine) with a Wolfson WM8740 DAC chip. I even bought it for about 54% of MSRP from a brick-and-mortar dealer (support your locals) at a factory close out sale. A couple years ago the transport mechanism failed (Sanyo, I believe, although it had lasted several years so I can't complain too much). The repair cost was still only about half of what a minimally suitable replacement deck would cost. During the interim, I made do with a laptop feeding into a Dragonfly Black. When it was ready, I wanted to make sure that the transport would still read disks from my stable of unicorns (as 'The Audio Company That Must Not Be Named' likes to refer to them). They had no problem with that and plugged it into a Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum (KT88s) driving sonus faber floor standers in one of their listening rooms. Even cold, HDCD, DVD-A, and SACD all sounded great. The dealer guys were also suitably impressed and they are used to listening to dCS gear these days (sorry Paul, no PS Audio, "No one is perfect, Saavik"). In the immortal words of Professor Tolkien , "The old that is strong does not wither." Well, maybe not sonically, complex electro-mechanical devices are another matter. Doubtless, PS Audio's Direct Stream gear would sound even better, but as a retiree on Social Security they are above my (non-)pay grade. I'm not quite that old (although =//=OldDudesStillRock), so I don't know how long my nest egg will need to last, What I have is quite good enough.
generalizing is not good and less to confuse and sell your own product. There are many CD players, close to a thousand dollars, that were awarded at international fairs and have very decent dacs, with a very nice analog conversion and do not need to be used for transport. Apart from that, the truth that many deny is that CDs sound better than streaming online.
Thanks for this, I'm getting a DAC to improve the sound of my budget Blu Ray player but will be interested to see how it improves the sound of my Marantz cd player too.
Paul is right most cd player dacs suck ! But a player like Yamaha CDS 2100/3000 no you wouldn't need a dac on the average , basically if you have a cheap dvd player or blueray player that you use for music playback yes a dac will better the sound hands down ! Even the Schiit modi 3 at $99.00 US makes an incredable difference ! But P.S. Audio direct stream dac may be the best dac i ever spent time with ! A friend of mines dad just got the PS audio dac and he runs his Sony ES-5400 SACD player to the dac and Wow Paul ! The Sony is great on its own about 2k new but once he added the Direct stream ohh my God , I have never heard a dac make that much difference in sound quality !! Dam its really kickass ! It sounds Analog !
I have a mid 90s Marantz CD player that only has analog outputs. As I've gotten back into audio and have seen the explosion of DACs I was horribly confused about the whole pairing of DACs and players. I found this answer on another channel about 3 months ago. I'm a little bummed I bothered to have the tray drive fixed on the Marantz now as I don't have an opportunity to mess with an external DAC.
Trying to see if I can hear the difference between my Onkyo DX-C390's DAC and my Marantz NR1602's DAC (via coax in my case, but trying optical for any differences). This then goes to my pre-amp/mixer then my Luxman M-113 powering some Hafler M5s and Advant AS2. The onkyo is surprisingly good, on par or better than the Marantz (which I admit is not great)
Anyone with a CD player probably has an internal DAC that was designed 20 - 30 years ago. DACs have improved enormously since then. Even in the last 5 years the advancements have been huge. A new external DAC should improve any old CD player. There are plenty of quality models in the sub $200 bracket.
Good Answer, hope you made it to NZ before the lockdown. Insider advice - if you go, head straight to West Coast of the Sth Island. The most beautiful scenery in the world!
Yes, but with carefully designed CD players maybe there's merit into creating an internal DAC with 44.1 / 16 in mind only. Maybe easier to get right (or : cheaper to build for a given quality level) as opposed to a DAC that has to support a gzillion connections, and a gazillion sample rates Yes, I'm quite eying the Hegel Mohican but can you blame me ?
Don't waste your money the better off with audiolab 6000cdt transport and the audiolab m-dac award-winning beat a £3,000 CD player with DAC any day. Transport is £379 the DAC is £469 people putting this combination this transport in £100000 system
Exactly my 1984 Denon DCD MK II golden era CD player is the most neutral and non fatiguing I’ve ever heard but the DAC is antiquated and mediocre. Solution: Add a high quality modern external DAC and you get Audiophile bliss.
I also have a vintage DENON cd player with only analog (RCA) output. Does it make sense to connect it to an external DAC anyway? From the video I would say the answer is NO.
I have dacs in all kinds of audio equipment plus external dacs like Gustard r26 and Doge 7 tube dac with 8 nos Telefunken tubes. It funny but in my Vintage all separates Marantz system with JBL l100 classic speakers I still use a Playstation 1 as a cd player and think it sounds great so after going pretty deep down into the Dac rabbit hole I don't think they make nearly as much difference as say an amp or preamp so I'm a little surprised at the huge popularity. Dacs are just slightly more important than cables for me. The best sources like reel to reel tape make more difference than any DAC. For example, good prerecorded reels have an open top end that gives amazing presence compared to many compressed cds or digital files.Dacs affect soundstage but so can source and preamp
We intuitively think of the transport or optical pickup as analogous to the cartridge/stylus of a turntable but Paul is right. The DAC is where the transformation takes place.
I was against using a DAC until I got a couple to play with. Now, I highly recommend them. You'd be surprised how much a good DAC can do to bring out detail and really add life to the recording. I have Schiit products personally, because they fit my budget. The Modi is great, but if you're into headphones and want fewer pieces of hardware, you can't go wrong with Jotunheim as a great DAC/amp combo. On the PS Audio side of things, I would imagine the Sprout 100 is also a good option, though I haven't tried it.
@@johnsweda2999 cheaper and better sounding than the Sprout 100 with all the same features? Really? Can you name some of them?? Don't get me wrong, i'm not challenging you, I'm curious.
@@net_news iotavx integrated amplifier SA3 £399 with poweramp pa3 £299 the same price, was going to be a nakamichi but released it himself. Or audiolab 6000a delivers 9 amps into difficult loads. £599 the bigger better brother the 8300a £899. The Cyrus one class D amplifier about £700. on the American side outlaw 5000 6000 models and the schiit audio range I think is good bet but the iota is great for its price and is pre out and bridging and has a fantastic phono stage only M M I think USB £25 for the Bluetooth aptX dongle
Good explanation and vid.So in essence the internal DAC is bypassed to the external one? How about a digi output to an external DAC with Digi input, or using old style cabling to a DAC with Digi output.? Im also upgrading from an old but good Technics SL-PS 7700 TO A 3 yr Arcam FMJ 27S CD.My CD Player does have a digi output but none on my old Arcam Delta 90.
Great video I have a Mcintosh MCD1100 SACD player in my main system, i use the analog outputs. Still havent found a external dac that i love more. Although i use a external streaming dac for my headphone rig in a separate room.
DAC vs Transport: I agree wholeheartedly. When I listen to quality headphones, I use a Mr. N..P.ass analog MOSFET amplifier driven by the DAC. Power Supplies are very important but relatively easy to construct.
Exactly my 1984 Denon DCD MK II is one of the most amazing and neutral CD players I’ve ever heard but it has an antiquated DAC. Add a high quality external modern DAC and you have audio bliss.
I was surprised that the DAC in my 20-yr old Yamaha receiver is better than the one in my new Onkyo CD player. The Onkyo spec for THD is 1/10th that of the Yamaha and the SNR is 107 dB vs 96 dB for the Yahama. What gives? Are these not good measures of DAC quality?
Cambridge 651with Twin Wolfson WM8742 DACs. These are said to be very good DACs. Will I get much noticable sound improvement with an external DAC or would that be a waste of money?
Can i invest in a good dac with an average dvd player or i go for a good audio cd player with that external dac. Is it necessary to buy a good audio cd player with a good dac or it overkils.please reply.i want to listen wav format.can i go for mediaplayer insteaad of audio cd player?i am confused and seeking ur expert opinion.
Help, I'm not knowledgeable enough to figure out the best low-cost scenario for CD playback on my home stereo using my current components. I have a Sony CDP-CE500 for my CD playback and since I can't find the specs of its internal DAC anywhere online I'm using the optical output into my Onkyo TX-8270 to let it do the audio conversion. The Onkyo TX-8270 receiver has an AK4438 DAC that supports up to 24-bit/192kHz. It also has something called Vector Linear Shaping Circuitry (VLSC), which claims to filter the audio output to “remove pulse noise generated in D/A conversion” and “reassemble the audio signal to its original form following processing.” My question is would be adding a $100 -$300 DAC be worthwhile or should I stick with my Onkyo receiver doing the audio converting?
I love the simplicity at the bench vibe here but why not give that concise explanation sales pitch 30 seconds of this video and devote the other 4 minutes to listening to the differences between DAC's or transports?
In hifi you get what you pay for. Unfortunately. I tested mid priced CD transport (Cambridge Audio CXC) with a good external DAC (Chord Qutest), was not impressed. The transport was really lacking somehow. Used a good CD player (Cary Audio CD500), no external DAC, sounded better. The Chord Qutest and Mytek Brooklyn Bridge are really nice products. So is the discontinued Oppo Sonica. This hobby costs money if you want to chase the sound. Oh well ... need to just work harder. 😂🤣
itz möre expänsiff zen aströFöttöh x´D and gaming büy any stretch cömbined. öh and a few wätchess... ml amps ml ´böxes´ dcs cd. . ? öh accuphase eq ^?^
Paul, I bought a Cambridge Dac and the coaxial output from my cd is not working, tha cable looks of good quality, but I’m not shure iit is a 75 ohm cable, could be that the problem?. I tried the same connection with a Fiio Dac, and it works properly. Thank you in advance, best wishes from Argentina!
If it sounds good to you don't worry about it , This hobby is about fun and listening, try other things if you want, most companies have a trial period , if you hear no difference send it back, It's way more important to enjoy the music.
Natty Fatty Powerlifting Just so I understand you correctly. Are you saying that all external dac’s sound the same? Because that is absolutely not my experience.
Natty Fatty Powerlifting, Hahahaha! You either have not tried a superior DAC in your system or have poor listening skills, your statement that all DACs sound the same is simply not true! Sorry.
My old Pioneer CD player only has an analog (RCA) output. So there is no chance for me to benefit from an external DAC. Is there a way, a hack perhaps?
The fact that you cannot hear a difference only suggests that either you've never tried it, or if you have, you haven't tried the right products together. Making a blanket statement like this is not helpful.
Recording analogue audio: Paul, basically, all I want to do is transfer vinyl LP audio from my turntable to a DVD for audio-only playback on my CD player. Is this possible? If so, what would be the best disc for this and is there a way to list the tracks so I can go to a specific audio track on the disc? Thanks.
What about CD players with only traditional RCA outputs? are there external DACs that can take the already analogue converted signal that is going out of the CD player and clean it up before going back out to my preamp? I have only seen external DACs with coaxial / optical line in and RCA line outs-not duel RCAs. The DAC in my CD player is MASH 1-bit. I've compared the sound quality to a $20 bluetooth dongle with just a 1/8th inch to RCA out, and it unquestionably sounds better than my CD player. But there's no way in hell I plan on sitting around and ripping 800 CDs to a computer any time soon
My biggest problem with the sound of my CD player is the output is really, really LOUD and lacking in dynamic range. It makes everything sound compressed and flat. Low end is sucked right out of the mix. I'd imagine this player sounds great for listening to classical music, but sounds harsh for everything else
I owned an old sony es cd player had some crazy high res sound i think the oversampling was like a dac tthat re poroduces sound as it thinks should sound made for some impressive sound the pitch and clarity was spot on
I have an Onkyo 6 cd changer in my patio audio system. Hooked straight to a preamp it sounds TERRIBLE !! Not wanting to spend a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$ I bought a Cambridge DAC magic plus. Now it sounds a hell of a lot better. I mean really,really good.
That made me laugh about the 6 CD changer I thought you were going to say it's fantastic, get the audiolab 6000cdt transport you won't look back £379 people putting that transports in £100000 system
@@johnsweda2999 John: I have a very good Marantz SACD player in my main audio system and I'm not about to make any changes to anything. The Patio system I listen to when I barbecue. Thanks for the info. about the audiolab Never heard of them.
@Larry Niles they make very good equipment I have their 8000 series amplifier from the 90s never had an issue with it the m-dac is an award-winning dac. I think you're just a bit biased
Hi, good video. Can I plug a crappy wall mounted CD player with only a headphone jack (no toslink no RCA outs) into a DAC and then into a decent amp? Will it sound good?
The "high-end" home audio guys won't admit this, but a decent sub-$100, chip-based DAC can deliver 99+ percent of the audible performance of a fancy, discrete component "audiophile" DAC with a four-figure pricetag. By all means consider a DAC -- but keep in mind that the famous point of diminishing returns occurs very low on the price spectrum, and it pays to look beyond the "audiophile" brands, e.g. even supposedly value-oriented vendors like Schitt don't stack up especially well to non-"audiophile" competitors -- e.g.the playback section of an inexpensive "home recording interface" device from Behringer blows virtually any similarly priced "audiophile" DAC right out of the water.
Old Phillips CD Players have great DACs. Even new top models use these “old” DACs (Hand picked). Better buy a good old of these than invest in a maybe what ever DAC. What’s your mind?
It’s somewhat an outdated architecture to use a error prone CD player and move the data one-way to a DAC that needs to recover the clock through a PLL potentially yielding jitter. No, it’s much better when the DAC is the master and the source is a reliable data source such as an SD drive, USB drive, HD drive or even streaming media. Then you can be assured that every bit it correct and the clock is in the full precise control of the DAC eliminating any concern of jitter. CD as “transport” was great in the 90s.
Coax and toslink(optical) are the same exact digital stream inside the box! The optical out just takes the electronic digital stream and converts it to optical. Exact same data going out. The lower bandwidth of the optical out will make NO difference with CD audio which has a sample frequency of 44.1khz. One advantage of optical is that it provides electrical isolation between components.
OK. What about the DAC inside my Onkyo mid priced 7.1 surround receiver? When you use the HDMI output of a Blu-ray player, are you using the DAC in the receiver? Are DAC's in store shelf surround receivers just as crappy as a Walmart CD player's DAC? LOL
A $60 Sony CD player with a $110 SMSL Sanskrit 10th Mk 2 dac makes sound quality I have never heard before with my KRK KNS 8400 headphones. And so the upgrade journey begins.
Don't do it Carl You don't need a CD player, it's the same exact output you would get from an optical output from a computer. Or any other streaming device. The cd player is just adding distortion and if you're not using the inbuilt dac you can just cut all that out and use an old laptop via USB to your DaC for example. Or optical if you have an old PC Those moving parts are adding distortion which is why it sounds different.
I've ever read from an audiophile webs tht someone compared I2S output Vs USB output. He said definitely the I2S sounds better. He doesn't want to go back to USB again. From other audiophile webs I found the answer. With my limited digital knowledge, wht i read is the protocol audio signal between ICs whr digital audio is processed is I2S. Tht's why it stands for inter-IC Sound. So whn a player only has a USB (or Coax, etc) output the I2S signal/ data system is converted to USB protocol thn by using USB cable it's transferred out to a USB receiver from an external DAC then the digital signal has to be converted again to I2S protocol. So thr r some missing data. My dedicated DAC has I2S via HDMI input but unfortunately my player has no I2S output. CD player tht has I2S output usually only function as a CD transport only & expensive. I'm thinking to buy a more affordable one Avatar CD transport from Denafrips. It's around US$ 1700.
@@KaidFN I just looked into your Sony CDP-C325 and you're right, analog output ONLY. Does your CD player sound good? If so, you don't need an external DAC, the DAC in your player is working just fine. If you really want to improve the sound quality buy better speakers. I have a Rotel RCD 955-AX (1991) and it uses a Philips TDA1541A- SAA7220P/B DAC and a Philips CDM-4/19 CD mechanism. It's a High Performance Dual D/A Converter. Been using it for 31 years and it still sounds great! I could use a coax cable and use the DAC in my receiver but I highly doubt I would hear any diff. Google "Do I need an external DAC?" You will find that most articles/vids will tell you probably not. If you hear hiss during quiet passages of a CD or the music sounds off it could be the clock and an external DAC would be an option but other than that, forking out good money for an external DAC isn't gonna give you better sound quality.
I would say that in these days, most of DACs are pretty much standardised and there is no such a big difference as in the past. And also a lot of today players don't even have analog out anymore, which is annoying because even when all players have optical out now, amplifiers still mostly have one or max 2 optical inputs, there should be like 4+ of them and producers of CD/DVD/BD players should finally make a decision if they want digital cinch or optical out, it's completely random. BTW, DAC can make a pretty massive difference for your PC when you don't have aplifier with digital in, but analog out from computer is mostly not that great, you can hear mouse moving and stuff like that, use optical-analog DAC solves that problem. But ofcourse, your soundcard must have optical out. What I hate is that with external boxes, you have milion cables and power suplies everywhere, it should have standardised shape and mounting system to connect it with amplifier and modern amplifiers should all have several 5V outputs, not just one USB. I have TV and projector + TV tuner, smart box, PC, MC player and I want even BD player....you can't imagine that mess, sometimes I don't even remember how to set everything to play it. 😀 If I had just TV, it would be simple, I would just connect everything thru HDMI and then took optical out from TV to the reciever. I know this may sound heretic, but for some cases where I don't need the best quality of sound, maybe it would be better to connect it with bluetooth, but my problem with that is not that much about audio quality, it's good enough for TV or movies, but problem is input lag, which is a massive problem for watching movies.
I can’r remember what they’re called, but it’s the thing you connect a turntable to, then connect that to the amplifier. Anyway, I got one years ago but heard no difference whatsoever. Contacting the company, I was told it was my turntable’s fault or the cables, or the speakers, or the amplifier. Everything but the bland, expensive box that made no difference. They weren’t at all pleased that I dared to question the existence of any advantage, even though I put my point politely. No way am I going to fall for that again. What gave me much better sound in the end? New speakers. If the “magic box” did what they claimed it would, I would have heard the difference. The placebo effect doesn’t work with me. My CD player is a Yamaha CD N301, my Amp is a Yamaha A S701 and the speakers are Monitor Audio BX6. It may well be that a difference could be heard but the law of diminishing returns makes me very cautious.
Your system is wonderful don't look for more maybe an analogue interconnect like a QED Reference Audio40 and a very good speaker cables the Tellurium Q blackII for 3 meters for 150 pounds you're going to hear the full potential of your hi fi system this analogue cable and the speaker cables are for a system of 6000£ trust me you are going to blown away how your system is going to sound
Paris Stromatias Thank you. I do love how my system is sounding. It took a while before my speakers burned in but now the bass is terrific! If I ever upgrade to Audio Monitor Platinum, I’ll look for used ones first so they’re already burned in. When I got my Audio Monitor BX6, I also got an Audio Monitor subwoofer to give some bass. Now however, I sometimes think wow that bass is good. Then I go to check if I left the subwoofer switched on only to find it’s not even on. If this is the Bronze range, goodness knows how good their Platinum speakers sound. I’m going to be decorating the living room in a month or two and will be positioning the system better. The sound should improve but I also intend to get some new cables. I’ll take a note of the ones you told me about. Cheers.
@@jazzman1626 also I can tell you the silver 6 8 and 10 better price nof the new ones but the older ones in second hand ones better than platinums and something more if you put your shelf more than 3 meters + the bass increase you don't need a subwofer but if you find them buy it the silver series 6 8 or 10 but still the bx6 are still very good speakers iam talking about the older version not the new version look for second hand just put your self or speakers more than 3 meters the bass is more big and lower if you click on your tube and listen with headphones your going to fall in love with the sound monitor audio silver 6 8 and 10
Paris Stromatias I’ve seen a few older M.A. silvers on eBay so it’s something to consider for the future but I think I’ll see how things go when I move stuff around when we redecorate and I get the new cables.
@@jazzman1626 and absolutely your current speakers are wonderful you don't need a subwofer they have a lot of bass and detail you can position them near the back wall more bass and you can sit 3 meters + like 4 meters and little by little add furniture and sell the subwofer you don't need it you can watch TV in stereo still great bass from your speakers and a friend of mine did this and he thank me 100 times just add the cables and buy the silver ones some time in the future and for now you have a great system
Hello from North Cyprus. I've been watching your channel for a long time and I was wondering if you could advise some sub 100 dollars dacs for my PC with my Edifier R1280T. Or should I not waste money and get a decent dac which are usually around 200 + dollars? Thanks.
Hi, noticed you didn't get an answer. Here is my two cents worth. I am just a hobbyist, not and expert like Paul. Disclaimer, I don't know how resolving your Edifiers are, but I think they can sound very nice. You will find a price point on the DACs, when you will be squinting to hear any difference at all. That is when to stop and look no further. Buy a cheap DAC (€15 on Amazon) and use it as a starting point. Also consider your source, TH-cam, Spotify, CD, Blu-ray... what are you listening to? Firstly, do not overlook buying a used DAC, or borrowing from friends to try out and see what you like. Secondly, do not make the mistake to just look at the chipset specs. The analog stage after the conversion is very important and will make a difference in the end result. How the exact components in your system work together will give you different results... the same DAC will sound different in different systems. Thirdly, I have not come across a laptop with a good DAC in it. Putting a USB audio interface (used for recording music for example) in the chain will bypass the internal DAC and give you some amazing results, with a good headphone amplifier as a bonus. These can be purchased quite reasonably. Scarlett Solo 3rd gen as an example or if you are not into recording the Schiit Modi 3, Pro-ject BoxE, Dragonfly for portability etc. are very nice, but you might prefer one over the other with your speakers. If your PC is not a laptop, then there are some very nice internal sound cards that will absolutely do a great job. Creative Sound Blasters etc. which will allow you to get more for your money. Enjoy your music!
Wait now. Not all CD players have a digital output. I happily use my PS3 as a CD transport as it has a digital output, albeit optic and not coax. Yes, yes, I'm living in the past.
how does the CD PLAYER knows there is a DAC downstream? I mean its output in RCA analog cable. so the crap goes into a GREAT dac BUT... crap in crap out.
Stephen Mead, I felt much the same way as you until a recently acquired Cambridge CXC CD transport was substituted for the Oppo blue ray player I had been using as a CD transport into an outboard DAC. The significant improvement in CD playback SQ has to be heard to be fully appreciated. Beside the Project Box Pre S2 DAC, the stand alone CD transport is by far the best investment I have made for superb CD playback.
Excellent question and answer. I thought "CD Transport" was just a 'fancy, High End name for a CD Player. Often the questions, not to mention the answers, are over my head but here I actually learned something. Thanks.
I admit I know nothing about 'puter stuff ' - I use DVD players, not specialized CD... way too much 'junk around already' > a Cheap Sony highDef 3700. only digital outputs > would a separate " DAC' do anything? would a separate CD say a $ 350. yam. be noticeably better with my step above basic system, now KEF Q350/ Cambridge 100 w/ch basic stereo receiver....Yes, $$$ is an issue, as is shelf space. and then of course the standard CD / DVD v. SACD issue ( I prefer watching bands, not just audio > like N.Jones at R.Scotts, D.Krall Paris, Dead ' movie' - the 2 nd no interview disc etc ) kinda happy with it is I guess the final answer.
The reality: no one can ABX a budget CD player and a high cost DAC. Whatever you advertise your product, you will fail to prove it better than a budget CD (even portable player) by ABX listening.
Don't bother buying a CD player buy a transport, the best on the market the audiolab 6000cdt £379. that's with a £200 DAC is better than a £2,000 CD player, and doesn't seem to have a ceiling cut-off point, the better DAC you put with it the better it becomes, that's not the case with a CD player even with a great DAC it will hit a limitation and not improve consider the autolab m-dac dac £469 32-bit sampling or if you got the cash get a benchmark DAC around £2,000.
So I'm stupid for paying $450 for a Cambridge transport? I would be just as well off buying a Walmart $50 CD player and one of Paul's DAC's?? Yeah Right.......
I love Cambridge Audio products. I have a CD player 650C, integrated amp 350A and a phono head amp (moving magnet). Great quality sound at a very reasonable price. When l upgrade l know where I'm going to look first.
No, I don't think you're stupid. The Cambridge transport likely has some features or sonic benefits that make it worth its price. The point I was trying to make is to help explain why one would even need a DAC. You can use a $50 WalMart CD player's digital output into a good quality DAC and have much better sound than through a CD player. That was the point of the riff.
@Thom Moore Correct. However, they typically have a lot of jitter and they use variable clock speeds to compensate for data flow rates. A well designed transport uses a low jitter fixed clock - but, as is surely obvious to you - doing that requires quite large intelligent buffers to make sure there's enough throughput and no buffer overrun. No commercial ones I am aware of use fixed low jitter output clocks. Ours, and a few other high end ones do. But, again, it's rare.
Go for DAC .! Btw Who plays a song on CD player with limited music collection in the age internet.? (Not me) I can understand someone's audiophile collection or favorite number on cds.!! Cd is old school, Just like cassette and its cassette player.
@Julia Set, is that the one where you can listen to what you just recorded as its recording? Or was that a 3 head? Been a long time ago. I wasn't paying attention...
No not rude, "bold". Nope I don't disagree. I don't know a lot about electronics. He did say something that shocked me a little. Thought provoking for sure. My old 5 disc Magnavox from 1995 still working great but no digital output. If I gave a crap about electronics class in high school there at Rio Mesa in Oxnard California 1980, maybe i could tap into the digital signal inside and rig for an external. You are an EE aren't you?
@Thom Moore, you're gonna spoil it. Did you ever put it together that these guy (Paul), is switching out the peanuts that is in the box with the Cables? People might surely be getting their money's worth with a different "product" in there. Did you Watch the Cheech and Chong Movie "up in smoke" or no?
Paul, you are absolutely the best at "unpacking" complicated questions and making them easy to understand. You are a man who truly knows his stuff, and that is what makes a great teacher. Thank you.
That was as simple a question as can be!
@@kencur9690 Specially for a DAC seller!
I have a Schitt audio MODI external DAC hooked up to a DVD player and yes the difference is noticeable from the first few notes. Next experiment for me is to run the output from the DAC to a tube buffered phono pre-amp with an AUX input just for Schitts and giggles, lol.
I've got the MODI 3 and love it. I'm on the fence about a MANI or a tube phono preamp.
Oh Schitt really
@@NeilDSouza7 Yep, no Schitt!!
@@lynnpoole7830 I have a Little Bear tube buffered preamp on my turntable and I must say it sounds amazing!! they are pretty cheap like 79$ it's worth a listen!!
Hello jack . A dac go to your CD player then from there how does the dac go to the recivier .
I kind of already knew this because of course the data being read off the CD is digital but thanks for spelling it out so clearly Paul. I hope you had a chance to come to New Zealand! Maybe bloody Covid put the kybosh on those plans if you didn't make it. Thanks mate, all the best.
I still can't get my head around why the quality of a CD transport would make any difference to the sound (beyond extremely bad ones). I've seen videos saying people can hear the difference but because the signal coming out the thing to the DAC (possibly along an optical line) is still digital whether one transport is better or worse than another is totally quantifiable. It either is the same bit stream or not and this could be tested. But I don't see people reporting on this. Maybe I'm not paying attention. Even a cruddy old CD player in a 1990s computer had to read all the bits in order and 100% correct or your software wouldn't run. There are check bits in the stream to ensure it.
I totally agree!
Too much jitter for the DAC? Maybe the DAC has poor or no jitter/reclocker functions and so a better transport, with less jitter, then results in better sound.
I bought my first transport (Cambridge) a month ago and love it, its not just an internal dac , its the buffering, etc,thats the problem ,a decent DAC hooked to a decent drive makes a difference
I got Jay’s audio cdt3 mk 2 transport and DAC 2 signature. Sound is amazing, especially using proper damping and isolation and great MF amps. CD is similar to vinyl, lots to squeeze out if you have the time/money/passion.
My player is Shanling SCDT200C. It has been upgraded by adding 2 active clocks for its cd & SACD. Result: the high notes of piano (I like listening to solo piano) less sharp. I also upgraded its 4 of its I/V (current to voltage) ICs which is its DAC by using discrete curcuits (individual transistors instead of IC). Result: sound becomes more open. And I replaced its input caps with Multicaps (inside thr r 10 small caps parareled/ bypassed to lower its impedance) & to bypass its main elco caps with 1/1000 of it on SS & valve outputs. Result: better midrange & high. I l listened it wth a good headphone. Definitely thr r improvements.
I connect its Coax digital output to an external/ dedicated DAC which has better performance. Result : sound is thicker. Definitely better sound.
I've been trying to get this answer all week, finally found you. Thank you for the clear a concise answer as to whether or not to add an external DAC to a CD player
The $150 Sony CD players from the '90s had excellent hifi output, so obviously they came with good internal DACs. Problem is this: If you rip CD digital data to your PC/Mac HD, how to get equivalent analog hifi output through an external DAC. So far, I've tried a few < $200 DACs and they come no where near the original $150 Sony CD players in hifi quality. So what gives? Do I need to spend $2000 for a DAC that essentially came for free in the old CD players? The cost/quality ratio does not make sense, especially since the price of digital technology has been coming down for the last 30 years.
Thanks for sharing that observation. Also, when I tried optical or coaxial audio out it sounded appreciably worse to me than the standard RCA outputs. This is on a Sony SACD player, circa the early 2000s.
Maybe you just like a certain sound from the older DAC, but it may not be as transparent as modern equipment? Maybe find out how to modify the CD player to use just the DAC part with a PC :)
@@RennieAsh Difference in quality is massive. I've researched whether I can just use the CD Player DAC and can't find a thing. Thank you for your thoughts.
PC out HDMI to a TV monitor. TV coax or Toslink Optical out to DAC. The point is that the entire pipeline needs to be digital until it hits the DAC. Then analog (RCA or XLR) to your amp/speakers. The DAC inside the CD player costs $3.00 and has the same sound quality as a cell phone or tablet with 3.5mm out. Both are analog as they hit the input of your amp/speaker system. The external DAC has chip processors and op amps to elevate the CONVERSION to analog for better sound.
Outside/ dedicated DAC has better performance (it also has cleaner PSU which lower digital noise resulting background sound is darker) than a cd player's inside DAC. Is it because it can process more digital signal (data) per-second ? That's why the sound is thicker, better dynamic & better soundstage (sound is more 3D). This is my understanding. Is true ?
I am an unrepentant physical media kind of guy and have a venerable Arcam DV135 not-quite-universal player (no blu-ray and stereo only output although it still plays multi-channel SACDs and DVD-As just fine) with a Wolfson WM8740 DAC chip. I even bought it for about 54% of MSRP from a brick-and-mortar dealer (support your locals) at a factory close out sale. A couple years ago the transport mechanism failed (Sanyo, I believe, although it had lasted several years so I can't complain too much). The repair cost was still only about half of what a minimally suitable replacement deck would cost. During the interim, I made do with a laptop feeding into a Dragonfly Black. When it was ready, I wanted to make sure that the transport would still read disks from my stable of unicorns (as 'The Audio Company That Must Not Be Named' likes to refer to them). They had no problem with that and plugged it into a Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum (KT88s) driving sonus faber floor standers in one of their listening rooms. Even cold, HDCD, DVD-A, and SACD all sounded great. The dealer guys were also suitably impressed and they are used to listening to dCS gear these days (sorry Paul, no PS Audio, "No one is perfect, Saavik"). In the immortal words of Professor Tolkien , "The old that is strong does not wither." Well, maybe not sonically, complex electro-mechanical devices are another matter. Doubtless, PS Audio's Direct Stream gear would sound even better, but as a retiree on Social Security they are above my (non-)pay grade. I'm not quite that old (although =//=OldDudesStillRock), so I don't know how long my nest egg will need to last, What I have is quite good enough.
I just started reading your book (99 percent true) and I must say it's very entertaining!! Thanks!
generalizing is not good and less to confuse and sell your own product. There are many CD players, close to a thousand dollars, that were awarded at international fairs and have very decent dacs, with a very nice analog conversion and do not need to be used for transport. Apart from that, the truth that many deny is that CDs sound better than streaming online.
Thanks for this, I'm getting a DAC to improve the sound of my budget Blu Ray player but will be interested to see how it improves the sound of my Marantz cd player too.
Paul is right most cd player dacs suck ! But a player like Yamaha CDS 2100/3000 no you wouldn't need a dac on the average , basically if you have a cheap dvd player or blueray player that you use for music playback yes a dac will better the sound hands down ! Even the Schiit modi 3 at $99.00 US makes an incredable difference ! But P.S. Audio direct stream dac may be the best dac i ever spent time with ! A friend of mines dad just got the PS audio dac and he runs his Sony ES-5400 SACD player to the dac and Wow Paul ! The Sony is great on its own about 2k new but once he added the Direct stream ohh my God , I have never heard a dac make that much difference in sound quality !! Dam its really kickass ! It sounds Analog !
I have a mid 90s Marantz CD player that only has analog outputs. As I've gotten back into audio and have seen the explosion of DACs I was horribly confused about the whole pairing of DACs and players. I found this answer on another channel about 3 months ago. I'm a little bummed I bothered to have the tray drive fixed on the Marantz now as I don't have an opportunity to mess with an external DAC.
Trying to see if I can hear the difference between my Onkyo DX-C390's DAC and my Marantz NR1602's DAC (via coax in my case, but trying optical for any differences). This then goes to my pre-amp/mixer then my Luxman M-113 powering some Hafler M5s and Advant AS2. The onkyo is surprisingly good, on par or better than the Marantz (which I admit is not great)
Anyone with a CD player probably has an internal DAC that was designed 20 - 30 years ago. DACs have improved enormously since then. Even in the last 5 years the advancements have been huge. A new external DAC should improve any old CD player. There are plenty of quality models in the sub $200 bracket.
my new mainbored still cänt repeat midi mans or m-audios sound v v
how are new ones better than older (if built from quality parts) ?
@@GuitarSpotTV Old DACs leave too much data behind.
Good Answer, hope you made it to NZ before the lockdown. Insider advice - if you go, head straight to West Coast of the Sth Island. The most beautiful scenery in the world!
P, I can always apply your message to my Mid-Fi headphone rig. Thank you, D. From Stl.
Yes, but with carefully designed CD players maybe there's merit into creating an internal DAC with 44.1 / 16 in mind only. Maybe easier to get right (or : cheaper to build for a given quality level) as opposed to a DAC that has to support a gzillion connections, and a gazillion sample rates
Yes, I'm quite eying the Hegel Mohican but can you blame me ?
Don't waste your money the better off with audiolab 6000cdt transport and the audiolab m-dac award-winning beat a £3,000 CD player with DAC any day.
Transport is £379 the DAC is £469 people putting this combination this transport in £100000 system
@@johnsweda2999 Nonsense. I've had the M-DAC and it's shit. Too bright and fatiguing. Horrible POS.
Exactly my 1984 Denon DCD MK II golden era CD player is the most neutral and non fatiguing I’ve ever heard but the DAC is antiquated and mediocre. Solution: Add a high quality modern external DAC and you get Audiophile bliss.
I also have a vintage DENON cd player with only analog (RCA) output. Does it make sense to connect it to an external DAC anyway? From the video I would say the answer is NO.
I have dacs in all kinds of audio equipment plus external dacs like Gustard r26 and Doge 7 tube dac with 8 nos Telefunken tubes. It funny but in my Vintage all separates Marantz system with JBL l100 classic speakers I still use a Playstation 1 as a cd player and think it sounds great so after going pretty deep down into the Dac rabbit hole I don't think they make nearly as much difference as say an amp or preamp so I'm a little surprised at the huge popularity. Dacs are just slightly more important than cables for me. The best sources like reel to reel tape make more difference than any DAC. For example, good prerecorded reels have an open top end that gives amazing presence compared to many compressed cds or digital files.Dacs affect soundstage but so can source and preamp
We intuitively think of the transport or optical pickup as analogous to the cartridge/stylus of a turntable but Paul is right. The DAC is where the transformation takes place.
Yes but a transport has better circuitry filtration jitter control where CD player won't and it's cheaper than a good quality CD player
I was against using a DAC until I got a couple to play with. Now, I highly recommend them. You'd be surprised how much a good DAC can do to bring out detail and really add life to the recording.
I have Schiit products personally, because they fit my budget. The Modi is great, but if you're into headphones and want fewer pieces of hardware, you can't go wrong with Jotunheim as a great DAC/amp combo.
On the PS Audio side of things, I would imagine the Sprout 100 is also a good option, though I haven't tried it.
Sprout it's not that good not natural if you don't mind not having that's all that's fine there's better out there cheaper
@@johnsweda2999 cheaper and better sounding than the Sprout 100 with all the same features? Really? Can you name some of them?? Don't get me wrong, i'm not challenging you, I'm curious.
@@net_news iotavx integrated amplifier SA3 £399 with poweramp pa3 £299 the same price, was going to be a nakamichi but released it himself. Or audiolab 6000a delivers 9 amps into difficult loads. £599 the bigger better brother the 8300a £899. The Cyrus one class D amplifier about £700. on the American side outlaw 5000 6000 models and the schiit audio range I think is good bet but the iota is great for its price and is pre out and bridging and has a fantastic phono stage only M M I think USB £25 for the Bluetooth aptX dongle
@@johnsweda2999 wow great answer!! gonna take a look man, much appreciated.
Good explanation and vid.So in essence the internal DAC is bypassed to the external one?
How about a digi output to an external DAC with Digi input, or using old style cabling to a DAC with Digi output.? Im also upgrading from an old but good Technics SL-PS 7700 TO A 3 yr Arcam FMJ 27S CD.My CD Player does have a digi output but none on my old Arcam Delta 90.
I have a much older jazz LP, once processed with a DAC, can the newly made digital recording be saved and then burned to another CD/DVD?
Great video
I have a Mcintosh MCD1100 SACD player in my main system, i use the analog outputs. Still havent found a external dac that i love more. Although i use a external streaming dac for my headphone rig in a separate room.
DAC vs Transport: I agree wholeheartedly. When I listen to quality headphones, I use a Mr. N..P.ass analog MOSFET amplifier driven by the DAC. Power Supplies
are very important but relatively easy to construct.
I have a Denon 3930ci player and the dac is great but I use a schiit bifrost dac most of the time .I just use the Denon dac for sacd
any cd player already has a dac or you wouldnt hear anything . simple answer
the dac quality it has, that's another story
Exactly my 1984 Denon DCD MK II is one of the most amazing and neutral CD players I’ve ever heard but it has an antiquated DAC. Add a high quality external modern DAC and you have audio bliss.
My cd player (portable sony) only has a headphone output. Can I use a dac with it?
I was surprised that the DAC in my 20-yr old Yamaha receiver is better than the one in my new Onkyo CD player. The Onkyo spec for THD is 1/10th that of the Yamaha and the SNR is 107 dB vs 96 dB for the Yahama. What gives? Are these not good measures of DAC quality?
i have conected coaxial output from NAD to my Topping DX3PRO+...I cant hear big difference in sound quality vs the the analog output
Cambridge 651with Twin Wolfson WM8742 DACs. These are said to be very good DACs. Will I get much noticable sound improvement with an external DAC or would that be a waste of money?
Buying an external DAC would be a waste of MONEY!
Can i invest in a good dac with an average dvd player or i go for a good audio cd player with that external dac. Is it necessary to buy a good audio cd player with a good dac or it overkils.please reply.i want to listen wav format.can i go for mediaplayer insteaad of audio cd player?i am confused and seeking ur expert opinion.
What will sound better, PCM cord or Toslink into DAC? Is either one compressed at all?
Help, I'm not knowledgeable enough to figure out the best low-cost scenario for CD playback on my home stereo using my current components.
I have a Sony CDP-CE500 for my CD playback and since I can't find the specs of its internal DAC anywhere online I'm using the optical output into my Onkyo TX-8270 to let it do the audio conversion. The Onkyo TX-8270 receiver has an AK4438 DAC that supports up to 24-bit/192kHz. It also has something called Vector Linear Shaping Circuitry (VLSC), which claims to filter the audio output to “remove pulse noise generated in D/A conversion” and “reassemble the audio signal to its original form following processing.”
My question is would be adding a $100 -$300 DAC be worthwhile or should I stick with my Onkyo receiver doing the audio converting?
I love the simplicity at the bench vibe here but why not give that concise explanation sales pitch 30 seconds of this video and devote the other 4 minutes to listening to the differences between DAC's or transports?
In hifi you get what you pay for. Unfortunately. I tested mid priced CD transport (Cambridge Audio CXC) with a good external DAC (Chord Qutest), was not impressed. The transport was really lacking somehow.
Used a good CD player (Cary Audio CD500), no external DAC, sounded better.
The Chord Qutest and Mytek Brooklyn Bridge are really nice products. So is the discontinued Oppo Sonica.
This hobby costs money if you want to chase the sound. Oh well ... need to just work harder. 😂🤣
itz möre expänsiff zen aströFöttöh x´D
and gaming büy any stretch cömbined. öh and a few wätchess...
ml amps ml ´böxes´ dcs cd. . ? öh accuphase eq ^?^
Paul, I bought a Cambridge Dac and the coaxial output from my cd is not working, tha cable looks of good quality, but I’m not shure iit is a 75 ohm cable, could be that the problem?. I tried the same connection with a Fiio Dac, and it works properly. Thank you in advance, best wishes from Argentina!
It's really doubtful. My guess is there's something wrong with the digital output. Cables matter but rarely to the point of not working.
Thank you Paul !
How to determine how good is а DAC? I have a DIY DAC, but don't have friends with same audio pashion as me to make comparison.
If it sounds good to you don't worry about it , This hobby is about fun and listening, try other things if you want, most companies have a trial period , if you hear no difference send it back, It's way more important to enjoy the music.
Natty Fatty Powerlifting Just so I understand you correctly. Are you saying that all external dac’s sound the same? Because that is absolutely not my experience.
Natty Fatty Powerlifting, Hahahaha! You either have not tried a superior DAC in your system or have poor listening skills, your statement that all DACs sound the same is simply not true! Sorry.
Andy chance you will hold any hifi event at local retailers in NZ perhaps? Thank you.
My old Pioneer CD player only has an analog (RCA) output. So there is no chance for me to benefit from an external DAC. Is there a way, a hack perhaps?
Thank you for this explanation. I answered my quandaries perfectly.
Expensive DAC vs Cheap internal DAC of any CD/DVD player - CAN YOU HEAR THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEM???!!!! The short answer is - NO !!!
The fact that you cannot hear a difference only suggests that either you've never tried it, or if you have, you haven't tried the right products together. Making a blanket statement like this is not helpful.
Recording analogue audio: Paul, basically, all I want to do is transfer vinyl LP audio from my turntable to a DVD for audio-only playback on my CD player. Is this possible? If so, what would be the best disc for this and is there a way to list the tracks so I can go to a specific audio track on the disc? Thanks.
You will not be able to play a DVD in a CD player. Do you mean create an audio-only DVD to play in a DVD player?
So I have a nube question. I have a decent quality Marantz AVR. Can I connect a CD transport directly to it utilizing its DAC?
Yes you can, use coax or optical cable.
What about CD players with only traditional RCA outputs? are there external DACs that can take the already analogue converted signal that is going out of the CD player and clean it up before going back out to my preamp? I have only seen external DACs with coaxial / optical line in and RCA line outs-not duel RCAs. The DAC in my CD player is MASH 1-bit. I've compared the sound quality to a $20 bluetooth dongle with just a 1/8th inch to RCA out, and it unquestionably sounds better than my CD player. But there's no way in hell I plan on sitting around and ripping 800 CDs to a computer any time soon
My biggest problem with the sound of my CD player is the output is really, really LOUD and lacking in dynamic range. It makes everything sound compressed and flat. Low end is sucked right out of the mix. I'd imagine this player sounds great for listening to classical music, but sounds harsh for everything else
Thanks for your explanation.
K Mac indeed timely video
I owned an old sony es cd player had some crazy high res sound i think the oversampling was like a dac tthat re poroduces sound as it thinks should sound made for some impressive sound the pitch and clarity was spot on
I have an Onkyo 6 cd changer in my patio audio system. Hooked straight to a preamp it sounds TERRIBLE !!
Not wanting to spend a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$ I bought a Cambridge DAC magic plus. Now it sounds a hell of a lot better.
I mean really,really good.
That made me laugh about the 6 CD changer I thought you were going to say it's fantastic, get the audiolab 6000cdt transport you won't look back £379 people putting that transports in £100000 system
@@johnsweda2999
John:
I have a very good Marantz SACD player in my main audio system and I'm not about to
make any changes to anything. The Patio system I listen to when I barbecue.
Thanks for the info. about the audiolab Never heard of them.
@Larry Niles they make very good equipment I have their 8000 series amplifier from the 90s never had an issue with it the m-dac is an award-winning dac. I think you're just a bit biased
I have a CD player now around a 500 dollar one to reprove my sound a dac would be the answer. ?
Or you can go hdmi or optical or coax from your cd player to your receiver and use its dac.
Hi, good video. Can I plug a crappy wall mounted CD player with only a headphone jack (no toslink no RCA outs) into a DAC and then into a decent amp? Will it sound good?
I think the input for the DAC MUST be digital
No.
What would be the threshold $$ for a good DAC?
The "high-end" home audio guys won't admit this, but a decent sub-$100, chip-based DAC can deliver 99+ percent of the audible performance of a fancy, discrete component "audiophile" DAC with a four-figure pricetag. By all means consider a DAC -- but keep in mind that the famous point of diminishing returns occurs very low on the price spectrum, and it pays to look beyond the "audiophile" brands, e.g. even supposedly value-oriented vendors like Schitt don't stack up especially well to non-"audiophile" competitors -- e.g.the playback section of an inexpensive "home recording interface" device from Behringer blows virtually any similarly priced "audiophile" DAC right out of the water.
Old Phillips CD Players have great DACs. Even new top models use these “old” DACs (Hand picked). Better buy a good old of these than invest in a maybe what ever DAC.
What’s your mind?
It’s somewhat an outdated architecture to use a error prone CD player and move the data one-way to a DAC that needs to recover the clock through a PLL potentially yielding jitter. No, it’s much better when the DAC is the master and the source is a reliable data source such as an SD drive, USB drive, HD drive or even streaming media. Then you can be assured that every bit it correct and the clock is in the full precise control of the DAC eliminating any concern of jitter. CD as “transport” was great in the 90s.
is ak4495 good? ( i own tda1541 & ad1955 dac now) thx
So paul my question is why dont cd players sound good anymore??
Which is better to use? The coax digital output or the other digital one?
The optical (toslink) is limited to 96kz, or at least it used to be. Go coax.
Coax and toslink(optical) are the same exact digital stream inside the box! The optical out just takes the electronic digital stream and converts it to optical. Exact same data going out. The lower bandwidth of the optical out will make NO difference with CD audio which has a sample frequency of 44.1khz. One advantage of optical is that it provides electrical isolation between components.
OK. What about the DAC inside my Onkyo mid priced 7.1 surround receiver? When you use the HDMI output of a Blu-ray player, are you using the DAC in the receiver? Are DAC's in store shelf surround receivers just as crappy as a Walmart CD player's DAC? LOL
good ? computer tech stuff a mystery
A $60 Sony CD player with a $110 SMSL Sanskrit 10th Mk 2 dac makes sound quality I have never heard before with my KRK KNS 8400 headphones. And so the upgrade journey begins.
Don't do it Carl
You don't need a CD player, it's the same exact output you would get from an optical output from a computer. Or any other streaming device.
The cd player is just adding distortion and if you're not using the inbuilt dac you can just cut all that out and use an old laptop via USB to your DaC for example. Or optical if you have an old PC
Those moving parts are adding distortion which is why it sounds different.
@@ericmiller254 So basically an output via optical cable from a PC to an amplifier is better than a CD?
Yeha great to see a NZ question for a change.
I've ever read from an audiophile webs tht someone compared I2S output Vs USB output. He said definitely the I2S sounds better. He doesn't want to go back to USB again. From other audiophile webs I found the answer. With my limited digital knowledge, wht i read is the protocol audio signal between ICs whr digital audio is processed is I2S. Tht's why it stands for inter-IC Sound. So whn a player only has a USB (or Coax, etc) output the I2S signal/ data system is converted to USB protocol thn by using USB cable it's transferred out to a USB receiver from an external DAC then the digital signal has to be converted again to I2S protocol. So thr r some missing data. My dedicated DAC has I2S via HDMI input but unfortunately my player has no I2S output. CD player tht has I2S output usually only function as a CD transport only & expensive. I'm thinking to buy a more affordable one Avatar CD transport from Denafrips. It's around US$ 1700.
How about cd player without digital output. Just analog output. How can you connect a DAC for that?
You can't. However, I've never seen a CD player with only an audio output.
@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio yes, its a Sony CDP C325 its a 5 disc cd player back in the 80s or 90s. It only has analog output RCA Red and white.
@@KaidFN I just looked into your Sony CDP-C325 and you're right, analog output ONLY. Does your CD player sound good? If so, you don't need an external DAC, the DAC in your player is working just fine. If you really want to improve the sound quality buy better speakers. I have a Rotel RCD 955-AX (1991) and it uses a Philips TDA1541A- SAA7220P/B DAC and a Philips CDM-4/19 CD mechanism. It's a High Performance Dual D/A Converter. Been using it for 31 years and it still sounds great! I could use a coax cable and use the DAC in my receiver but I highly doubt I would hear any diff. Google "Do I need an external DAC?" You will find that most articles/vids will tell you probably not. If you hear hiss during quiet passages of a CD or the music sounds off it could be the clock and an external DAC would be an option but other than that, forking out good money for an external DAC isn't gonna give you better sound quality.
@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio 1980’s Phillips e.g., with superb DACs, indeed.
Is it easy to hook up a dac to your CD player. Love your channel.
normally the cd player should have a digital output (either optical out or coaxial out) - you need to connect one of these to the DAC
I would say that in these days, most of DACs are pretty much standardised and there is no such a big difference as in the past. And also a lot of today players don't even have analog out anymore, which is annoying because even when all players have optical out now, amplifiers still mostly have one or max 2 optical inputs, there should be like 4+ of them and producers of CD/DVD/BD players should finally make a decision if they want digital cinch or optical out, it's completely random.
BTW, DAC can make a pretty massive difference for your PC when you don't have aplifier with digital in, but analog out from computer is mostly not that great, you can hear mouse moving and stuff like that, use optical-analog DAC solves that problem. But ofcourse, your soundcard must have optical out.
What I hate is that with external boxes, you have milion cables and power suplies everywhere, it should have standardised shape and mounting system to connect it with amplifier and modern amplifiers should all have several 5V outputs, not just one USB.
I have TV and projector + TV tuner, smart box, PC, MC player and I want even BD player....you can't imagine that mess, sometimes I don't even remember how to set everything to play it. 😀 If I had just TV, it would be simple, I would just connect everything thru HDMI and then took optical out from TV to the reciever.
I know this may sound heretic, but for some cases where I don't need the best quality of sound, maybe it would be better to connect it with bluetooth, but my problem with that is not that much about audio quality, it's good enough for TV or movies, but problem is input lag, which is a massive problem for watching movies.
Great info. Thank you
I can’r remember what they’re called, but it’s the thing you connect a turntable to, then connect that to the amplifier. Anyway, I got one years ago but heard no difference whatsoever. Contacting the company, I was told it was my turntable’s fault or the cables, or the speakers, or the amplifier. Everything but the bland, expensive box that made no difference. They weren’t at all pleased that I dared to question the existence of any advantage, even though I put my point politely. No way am I going to fall for that again. What gave me much better sound in the end? New speakers. If the “magic box” did what they claimed it would, I would have heard the difference. The placebo effect doesn’t work with me.
My CD player is a Yamaha CD N301, my Amp is a Yamaha A S701 and the speakers are Monitor Audio BX6. It may well be that a difference could be heard but the law of diminishing returns makes me very cautious.
Your system is wonderful don't look for more maybe an analogue interconnect like a QED Reference Audio40 and a very good speaker cables the Tellurium Q blackII for 3 meters for 150 pounds you're going to hear the full potential of your hi fi system this analogue cable and the speaker cables are for a system of 6000£ trust me you are going to blown away how your system is going to sound
Paris Stromatias
Thank you. I do love how my system is sounding. It took a while before my speakers burned in but now the bass is terrific! If I ever upgrade to Audio Monitor Platinum, I’ll look for used ones first so they’re already burned in. When I got my Audio Monitor BX6, I also got an Audio Monitor subwoofer to give some bass. Now however, I sometimes think wow that bass is good. Then I go to check if I left the subwoofer switched on only to find it’s not even on. If this is the Bronze range, goodness knows how good their Platinum speakers sound.
I’m going to be decorating the living room in a month or two and will be positioning the system better. The sound should improve but I also intend to get some new cables. I’ll take a note of the ones you told me about. Cheers.
@@jazzman1626 also I can tell you the silver 6 8 and 10 better price nof the new ones but the older ones in second hand ones better than platinums and something more if you put your shelf more than 3 meters + the bass increase you don't need a subwofer but if you find them buy it the silver series 6 8 or 10 but still the bx6 are still very good speakers iam talking about the older version not the new version look for second hand just put your self or speakers more than 3 meters the bass is more big and lower if you click on your tube and listen with headphones your going to fall in love with the sound monitor audio silver 6 8 and 10
Paris Stromatias
I’ve seen a few older M.A. silvers on eBay so it’s something to consider for the future but I think I’ll see how things go when I move stuff around when we redecorate and I get the new cables.
@@jazzman1626 and absolutely your current speakers are wonderful you don't need a subwofer they have a lot of bass and detail you can position them near the back wall more bass and you can sit 3 meters + like 4 meters and little by little add furniture and sell the subwofer you don't need it you can watch TV in stereo still great bass from your speakers and a friend of mine did this and he thank me 100 times just add the cables and buy the silver ones some time in the future and for now you have a great system
What makes a transport good?
First, and foremost, you need a laser pickup better than a potato.
@@jamesplotkin4674 duly noted
See you in NZ, if you come to Auckland drop a comment :) we can meet you there :)
Hello from North Cyprus. I've been watching your channel for a long time and I was wondering if you could advise some sub 100 dollars dacs for my PC with my Edifier R1280T. Or should I not waste money and get a decent dac which are usually around 200 + dollars? Thanks.
Hi, noticed you didn't get an answer. Here is my two cents worth. I am just a hobbyist, not and expert like Paul. Disclaimer, I don't know how resolving your Edifiers are, but I think they can sound very nice. You will find a price point on the DACs, when you will be squinting to hear any difference at all. That is when to stop and look no further. Buy a cheap DAC (€15 on Amazon) and use it as a starting point. Also consider your source, TH-cam, Spotify, CD, Blu-ray... what are you listening to? Firstly, do not overlook buying a used DAC, or borrowing from friends to try out and see what you like. Secondly, do not make the mistake to just look at the chipset specs. The analog stage after the conversion is very important and will make a difference in the end result. How the exact components in your system work together will give you different results... the same DAC will sound different in different systems. Thirdly, I have not come across a laptop with a good DAC in it. Putting a USB audio interface (used for recording music for example) in the chain will bypass the internal DAC and give you some amazing results, with a good headphone amplifier as a bonus. These can be purchased quite reasonably. Scarlett Solo 3rd gen as an example or if you are not into recording the Schiit Modi 3, Pro-ject BoxE, Dragonfly for portability etc. are very nice, but you might prefer one over the other with your speakers. If your PC is not a laptop, then there are some very nice internal sound cards that will absolutely do a great job. Creative Sound Blasters etc. which will allow you to get more for your money. Enjoy your music!
So helpful, thank-you!
Wait now. Not all CD players have a digital output.
I happily use my PS3 as a CD transport as it has a digital output, albeit optic and not coax.
Yes, yes, I'm living in the past.
how does the CD PLAYER knows there is a DAC downstream?
I mean its output in RCA analog cable.
so the crap goes into a GREAT dac
BUT...
crap in crap out.
"DAC's the way to do it."
No! transport and dac is the way to do it read my comment
"Uh huh, uh huh, I like it."
I have a DAC but do not use it with my transport
unless youve got a reeeeeally high end cd player, why not?
What do you feed your transport into?
What a great guy!
I’m confused how a so called high end cd transport can sound better than a cheap CD player when interfaces through the same DAC.
Stephen Mead, I felt much the same way as you until a recently acquired Cambridge CXC CD transport was substituted for the Oppo blue ray player I had been using as a CD transport into an outboard DAC. The significant improvement in CD playback SQ has to be heard to be fully appreciated. Beside the Project Box Pre S2 DAC, the stand alone CD transport is by far the best investment I have made for superb CD playback.
Excellent question and answer. I thought "CD Transport" was just a 'fancy, High End name for a CD Player. Often the questions, not to mention the answers, are over my head but here I actually learned something. Thanks.
Great question.
45% true.
Great answer, but that "bye" in the end was way too intimate.
I mean, did you need to whisper it as well? Let's keep this channel family friendly.
Thanks that was helpful
Ironically, you cannot buy one at DAK industries. That's probably for the best. :)
Drew would sell you one
None in stock, unless you count the "tapes to CD" contraption.
I admit I know nothing about 'puter stuff ' - I use DVD players, not specialized CD... way too much 'junk around already' > a Cheap Sony highDef 3700. only digital outputs > would a separate " DAC' do anything? would a separate CD say a $ 350. yam. be noticeably better with my step above basic system, now KEF Q350/ Cambridge 100 w/ch basic stereo receiver....Yes, $$$ is an issue, as is shelf space.
and then of course the standard CD / DVD v. SACD issue ( I prefer watching bands, not just audio > like N.Jones at R.Scotts, D.Krall Paris, Dead ' movie' - the 2 nd no interview disc etc )
kinda happy with it is I guess the final answer.
The reality: no one can ABX a budget CD player and a high cost DAC. Whatever you advertise your product, you will fail to prove it better than a budget CD (even portable player) by ABX listening.
Get a cd player with optic or coaxial output....the dac in consumer grade cd or dvd players is cheap and mediocre.
Don't bother buying a CD player buy a transport, the best on the market the audiolab 6000cdt £379. that's with a £200 DAC is better than a £2,000 CD player, and doesn't seem to have a ceiling cut-off point, the better DAC you put with it the better it becomes, that's not the case with a CD player even with a great DAC it will hit a limitation and not improve consider the autolab m-dac dac £469 32-bit sampling or if you got the cash get a benchmark DAC around £2,000.
i agree, great post!
Thanks.
What is a CD?
Someone that wears the clothing of the opposite sex. ;-) You're welcome.
@@holeephuc007 ROTFLMAO!
So I'm stupid for paying $450 for a Cambridge transport? I would be just as well off buying a Walmart $50 CD player and one of Paul's DAC's?? Yeah Right.......
In terms of sound, yes. In terms of usability and reliability not stupid at all.
I love Cambridge Audio products. I have a CD player 650C, integrated amp 350A and a phono head amp (moving magnet). Great quality sound at a very reasonable price. When l upgrade l know where I'm going to look first.
No, I don't think you're stupid. The Cambridge transport likely has some features or sonic benefits that make it worth its price. The point I was trying to make is to help explain why one would even need a DAC. You can use a $50 WalMart CD player's digital output into a good quality DAC and have much better sound than through a CD player. That was the point of the riff.
@@billfielding3063 Yep good stuff.
@Thom Moore Correct. However, they typically have a lot of jitter and they use variable clock speeds to compensate for data flow rates. A well designed transport uses a low jitter fixed clock - but, as is surely obvious to you - doing that requires quite large intelligent buffers to make sure there's enough throughput and no buffer overrun. No commercial ones I am aware of use fixed low jitter output clocks. Ours, and a few other high end ones do. But, again, it's rare.
Why do you speak dac instead of D A C ?
Dac overwrites internal dac to make dac sound better than the other dac..? :)
No. Use the digital output on the player bypassing it's DAC
I think you meant overrides...
That was an easy one.
pure digital music would be inaudible
Go for DAC .!
Btw Who plays a song on CD player with limited music collection in the age internet.? (Not me)
I can understand someone's audiophile collection or favorite number on cds.!!
Cd is old school, Just like cassette and its cassette player.
Old is gold.
Plus with recording to cassettes you can add sound clips from movies just before certain songs or whatever
I have a two head cassette player that makes MP3’s sound like crap.
@Julia Set, is that the one where you can listen to what you just recorded as its recording? Or was that a 3 head? Been a long time ago. I wasn't paying attention...
@@juliaset751 This should be good. Do explain.
@@SJMessinwithBoats Yes, it would be three head, record, playback, erase. You can monitor what has been recorded instead of monitoring source.
Its all about money$$$
DAC Yak, Paul the "Smooth Criminal"
No not rude, "bold". Nope I don't disagree. I don't know a lot about electronics. He did say something that shocked me a little. Thought provoking for sure. My old 5 disc Magnavox from 1995 still working great but no digital output. If I gave a crap about electronics class in high school there at Rio Mesa in Oxnard California 1980, maybe i could tap into the digital signal inside and rig for an external. You are an EE aren't you?
Thats "A Touch Too Much"
It was one of those nights when you turn out the lights and everything comes into view, she had the body of Venus....
Ac/Dc.
@Thom Moore, you're gonna spoil it. Did you ever put it together that these guy (Paul), is switching out the peanuts that is in the box with the Cables? People might surely be getting their money's worth with a different "product" in there.
Did you Watch the Cheech and Chong Movie "up in smoke"
or no?
One guy bought a 90k dollar cable. How many kilo's would the box weigh?
@Thom Moore Hush you're upsetting the fanboys. LOL