Mr. Carroll, I’ve got a story for you. In the late 90’s I was living in Southern Maryland working for Pepsi out of LaPlata. Being 13 in 1986 Top Gun was obviously the movie that changed all of our lives as young men! Anyway, my entire route was Pax River. The Air Ops Tower, the new Naval Headquarters Building and even the underground catapult. But most importantly, the hangar with the DFCS Tomcat sitting directly next to my Pepsi Machine. I mean like 20 feet away. On Presidents’ Day 1997, the hangar was completely and totally deserted. The DFCS Tomcat had the canopy open and the ladder down. I may or may not have taken a seat and fulfilled a childhood dream. I most certainly would have been fired if not worse. It was worth the risk. I became a Green Beret years later, and yearned to see the Tomcat in action. But it was retired just months before I got my chance. Maybe we will meet one day and I’ll tell you the entire story!
@@dougerrohmerthe seats were probably safed and the pins were probably in. And if not, he was probably more careful getting in and out than the average guy who jumps in and out daily. And he lived to tell about it, didn’t get caught or fired, and joined the army! Thank you for your service and for keeping that Pepsi machine serviced (I️ know that machine in Hgr 201)
Seeing the F-14 recover from the flat spin after the ejections reminds me of the "Cornfield Bomber", an F-106 that recovered from a flat spin after the pilot ejected and subsequently executed a landing in a cornfield that met the definition of a "great" landing. i.e. one where you get to use the plane again. After the pilotless belly landing it was repaired and put back in service. When all the 106s were retired that one was put in the USAF museum.
I was electrician. I spent many hours working on the flight control system, and the wind sweep system, and on that Turtle back with all the panels open watching the flight control rods and watching the mixer assembly, which was very fascinating. It was really a solid system, but it taught me How to troubleshoot which I still use to this day.
I agree, and I spent many hours replacing hydraulic components because electricians said they were bad, until they finally found that they had a bad component 😬
Mooch, thanks for another great episode! I also had the pleasure of interviewing PC as part of the mishap investigation for the VF-32 stuck spoiler mishap down in the PROA - Puerto Rican Op Area - circa 1998. Fortunately both guys got out, but the jet went down in a pretty deep area, was unrecoverable, and we had little to work with to try to postulate and substantiate the catalyst for the popped spoiler. PC was a terrific source for understanding the system and formulating some theories. And still learning about the Tomcat 30 years later! Great seeing a couple of ole CVW-7 buds too!
Absolutely fascinating episode, Mooch! Thank you for bringing it to us. The topic of roll control using spoilers rather than ailerons caused me to recall that the A-6, another Grumman product, which preceded the F-14 by several years, used a very similar design feature. My short but vivid stint as a pilot in VMA (AW) 224 during workups for our WESPAC deployment with CVW-15 aboard Coral Sea in 1971, I found that spoiler roll control made lineup challenging in the groove, because rapid lateral corrections, especially during in-close penetration of the "burble" from the island, not only induced Dutch roll wobble, but also due to elevated spoiler drag caused an increased sink rate which required an immediate power correction to prevent going low at the critical point approaching the rounddown! That phenomenon surely contrbuted to my infamous night, near ramp-strike which put a new dent in Coral Sea's roundown, and got me a ticket back to Cherry Point with my tail between my legs. Years later, I redeemed myself with an outstanding CQ period in the A-4 with six OK, no comment three-wire traps on the Lady Lex. But I can tell you from experience that the Skyawk was much easier to bring aboard the ship than the wallowing Intruder! Bravo Zulu, Mooch! Bear Owen, LtCol (Ret)
Wow! This is one of the most enjoyable episodes I have seen. In particular, I appreciated how PC could take a very complex system and make it mostly understandable by a layperson. Kudos and thank you, Mooch, Scott and PC!
I'm so happy the conversation finally turned to the maintainers. I got to thinking how badass it would be to have served in the VX-23 PP shop, then in the Fighter community after the engine swap to the GE. I served in the Prowler community up at Whidbey and made 3 Med floats from 79-82 dealing with the really unresponsive J52. Per our pilots, the EA-6B was quite a handful to get back aboard the ship as well. Many great memories and still friends to this day are some of our squadron mates from that time frame. Great video again CDR Mooch and thank you for another fantastic and informative episode. Keep them coming.
You may be interested to know that we eventually replaced the Air Nav Computer in the Prowler with the same digital flight control computer that went in the Tomcat - different software, of course. EA-6Bs had DFCS for the last few years of their life - we added the improved control laws for landing configuration as well!
At 34:20 you're describing exactly what the F-15 was built with. An analog mixing unit (CSBPC) coupled with a three axis digital series input (CAS) to the actuators. Good stuff guys. Thank you!
@ very good. It is a Martin Baker seat. Also used in the F-18 and F 35 at least in the Navy version of it. James Holgerson, who also was one of the engineers that worked on the seat worked and designed HR scope so that when the seat came out, it would make sure it would write itself up before deploying a shoot.
@@FBCTrona Yeh, I know it is, I was just a little confused. Not wishing to appear picky but the phrase that you "have the man that designed the F14 seat." is a bit strong..... Unless he was working on the original F14 Mk7 seat in the UK? I'm not wishing to diminish whatever he did, and he may well have worked for MB USA, but that didn't start until the mid/late 80's to my knowledge after the award of the NACES contract.. By that time, the principles were already well established and the Mk14 was well under development. Personally, I've only flown the Mk4 and Mk10 seat, but I have to say that I'm not familiar with the phrase "HR Scope"?. As it happens, I lived next door to RAF Chalgrove, the ancestral home of MB, whilst I was serving.
Mooch used the quintessential old man phrase - Back in our Day. It's funny, I still see a group of old guys on the porch, in thier rocking chairs, talking about the old days. The difference is the level of understanding about these issues, is way beyond the rest of us. Totally keeping me engaged the whole way.
Thank you again Mr. Carroll for the quality content, guests, and consummate attention to detail. Always a treat and wish you and your family a happy holidays!
In the late 60's, I was a helper making motor mounts for the F-14 Tomcat. 12 hr. shifts, 6 days a week. I'll never forget the screaming boring sounds of those cutters on the castings. Hope I helped you fellas stay alive.
DFCS was pretty sweet, particularly behind the boat. The gouge used to be to roll out on the left edge-line and the jet would sort of "slime" it's way over to centerline. Fist time with DFCS, rolled out on the left edge line and -pow- you were lined up on the left edge line. For BFM it was mostly better but there were a few times where you could attempt a maneuver (pirouette or "corkscrew") and trip anti-spin logic. The maneuver was high AOA and slow, stuff the stick to get air over the tails, full rudder + about 1/2 opposite stick. Once the yaw starts, full aft stick. If done correctly the jet would swap ends in about 2-3 seconds. With AFCS you might trip a momentary spin arrow, but with DFCS the jet would just counter the yaw and stop. Overall the jet was far better with it (wing rock suppression was pretty sweet also).
I remember these days... I was stationed at Deep Submergence Unit in San Diego when Lt. Hultgreen's tomcat went down off the coast. We were tasked with recovering the F-14 and also ended up locating and recovering the Lt's remains. I'm glad that we could give the family some closure and the Navy the opportunity to look over the fighter. The plane sat at NAS North Island's DRMO back lot for a long time after we recovered it and the investigation was complete.
Not sure how Carroll get this people to be on his TH-cam videos, but his doing a hell of a job … best interviews and news on TH-cam if you’re interested in the world events.
Ward, the video you showed of the F-14 in a flat spin was a test flight at Pax by CDR D. D. Smith, Chief Test Pilot at NATC, in the late 1970s. He describes the event in his book "Above Average, Naval Aviation the Hard Way." He was our speaker at the A-4 Skyhawk Association luncheon at Hook 23. Pleasure to meet him.
In the late 60's and early 70's I was an Air Force AFCS Specialist on Fighters. My first assignment after Tech School was to Eglin AFB in System Command where I got to work on every fighter that the AF flew at that time. I also worked with the Manufacturer Tech Rep Engineers there and gained a lot of additional knowledge about flight controls gaining my 4th stripe (E-5). This video brought back a lot of memories to refresh my memory on AFCS systems. Great video, thank you.
Great show Mooch, Interesting march to the future we take for granted. What a great Jet the F14 was. We all would have loved to see the F14 with the glass cockpit of today. Thanks for the History lesson. God bless you all.
I was an AMH (Aviation Structure Mechanic-Hydraulics) in SATS (Strike Aircraft Test Squadron) in PAX River Maryland working on the DFCS systems and AC 230 and AC 231 were the 2 DFCS aircraft, I believe in 1994 to 1997. We worked with the Civilian Engineers. One thing in particular the Flight Control rigging had to be very close to perfect stick to stabs. Cavanaugh was the Grumman test pilot at that time and later before I left Lt. Claffy arrived to be a test pilort (a pilot I worked with in a prior command VF-32).
I really enjoy your in depth long form video's, the shorter concise one's are good too, they're straight to the point. Always good to see semi-regular of your show Astronaut Kelly back!
As a Tomcat Avionics Technician and now semi-pro airplane designer, this was fascinating. A microchip cleaning up the aircraft's leftover flaws is so smart and these guys did a very valuable job. Both guys had amazing stuff. Thanks for coming on and discussing it.
Back to your Tomcat roots! Hey Scott and Paul! It’s been a while since I had the “honor” fixing PC’s lower leg restraints after he was already strapped into my backseat- so we’re almost married in some states! 🤣
Hey Pinto - look at me! Man that was fun ..... if I remember correctly (and I do ...) - I was having trouble with one of the restraints and the PC hopped up and dove in to help get it attached, and on the way out he snagged my beaded handle, and half my LPU inflated in the cockpit. Walk of Shame back to the PR shop for another LPU ... along with a well-deserved "What the f- are you doing, sir?" from the PRs ... and off we went for a fine jaunt in Salty Dog 205. What a great memory!
@ didn’t we jump into a Spare F/A-18D together when our F-14A went down on the ramp when we were chasing Rooster on a second good deal…. Oh no! Or was it the time Tammy put a single seat spare on for the Tomcat Chase! The slick brand new Block 15 with the big motors!
Excellent episode, Mooch! It's great that you, Scott & Paul have documented this particular element of the Tomcat's history, as the DFCS addressed so many of the difficulties we had for so many years flying the jet. Even though I flew the A, B & D, I retired before DFCS went operational - I'd have loved to fly with it! Also, given my thesis in PG school was on a spin indicator system for the F-14, I found all of the history discussed by you guys to be really comprehensive - so much info on the Tomcat all in one discussion!!
I worked two tours at AIMD Oceana and many hours repairing those analog Pitch, Roll, and Yaw Computers. The worse part of repairing those things was when the power supply modules would go. They had three transformers (if I remember correctly) that would just melt, and the entire unit would be full of transformer goo. That stench of burn't transformer when we would open them up. Memories!!!!!
Ward, what a great interview. It's a testament to you and your guests that questions that naturally come to me as a viewer when certain topics are discussed are promptly brought up and answered. Technical enough to be extremely interesting but also you have a great understanding of what information we layman might need to be clarified or expanded on.
Commander, wow, and well done! What a great program! The F-14 was a tough bird to fly. It took a lot of skill and intense concentration. Your 15-year survival flying that plane was quite an achievement. The Kelly family is incredible for all their achievements.
Very fascinating. I really regret not having more conversations with my late father about the F14, he was a Grumman Tech Rep so our whole family grew up with that fighter. Ward, a model would really help people wrap their head around these flight control inputs, I think I understand it in principal though. We have so many fighters now that are much better, but what an achievement building that aircraft in the 70's. I still remember my father coming home from work with good and bad news on the Tomcat, our hearts sank if one crashed. I dearly miss the F14 and our whole family was sad to see it retired. Love your channel!
CAPT Kelly, thanks for recounting the story of sitting in the airplane during EMI testing; it brought up some pleasant memories for me. My first job as a newly minted EE was working as an EMC/EMI engineer for Lockheed. As EMI guys we typically get a lot of side-eye from Mechanical Engineers who often pretend not to understand what we do. When I got on the job my cubicle was right in the middle of a bunch of ME's. When I came in the door in the morning I faced some good natured teasing from them with remarks like, "Here comes the Wizard," and "Hey, John, where's your hat ... the one with the stars and moons on it?" I thought it was great fun. 😁
Wow, huge task. I was a Hydraulics Mech in VF-11 84-88. Spent some extra time with Grumman learning about the AFCS both from the mechanical and computer side. I don't think at that time there was a lot of interface with the Mech's and Grumman regarding the overall flight characteristics between the two systems. Great story assembling the task, and the outcome. The Tomcat was a very complex engineering marvel for her time.
Great video Mooch. I am an air force guy, but I have always admired the F14 and everyone who have flown it. I still think the Navy made a mistake when they divested themselves of the F14. Perhaps one of the worst mistakes our military has made of shutting down a weapons platform. Now the air force is in the process of making a similar mistake with the A10. Both aircraft have no comparison tto each other or in the skies. No other aircraft has had then or now. The F14 was so beautiful, and right as they get all the early kinks worked out, they just up and say bye-bye. But the F14 lives on. Its in the heart and soul of all of you flew it, maintained it, built it, and those of us who never had that experience. This video had me going back looking on my computer of all the pictures and video of planes. I was surprised to see that I have more pictures and video of the F14 than any other. Have a wonderful Christmas and a Happy New Year Mooch.
This post was so well done. Having Scott Kelley and Paul Conigliaro from Grumman covering this issue was amazing. I always assumed the F-14 with wings swept full forward lowering the approach speed and AOA made it more manageable than other fighters. From this not so. Also the thought of those large rudders not always in sync with the pedals. I was locked into this whole show. I have no Tacair experience. Protected the carrier a couple times with the P-3 when conditions didn’t allow flight ops. Did one practice approach to 300 ft or so. All the respect in the world for those that do carrier ops especially in recent turbulent times.
Once the full spin developed, the "eyes out" was worse for the pilot than the RIO based upon their difference in distance from the center of rotation. Can you imagine the ejection posture said pilot would have assumed in such a situation? That's gotta be rough on teh back. RIO goes, 0.4 seconds later the pilot goes. No face curtain on the Martin Baker Mk 14 Air Crew Ejection Seat(NACES) used on the Delta birds, the previous seat was the Mk-7 used in the A , A+/B variants used a face curtain. Both have saved many an Aviators lives including the Tomcat's 2nd Test flight. That was a spicy jump out, right into the fireball.
WOW - FANTASTIC episode ! I was on the program side of flight testing for the F-16 back then - thoroughly enjoyed the interplay I saw among the service professionals in this domain. I wonder (and hope) you have a history person - maybe going for a PhD - to take this and other episodes to form a no-kidding history from original sources - what we wish we could have for the dinosaurs, for example.
One thing is clear to me from this video discussion about the F-14 Tomcat is that, as good as it was, there was definitely good reasons for its replacement.
Ward, thanks. One of the best episodes of any channel about NAVAIR. Your two guests were absolutely excellent. I hope there is talent like they have still in the Navy and industry keeping America safe
I did not know most of that info when I lost my right engine on a cat shot fully loaded. But what I did know was do not use lateral stick to correct a rolling yaw when yawing at low airspeed. I was flying an A model
This was a most interesting interview. Thank you gentlemen for all the work that was done on the F-14 to make it safer for those flying it and thank you, Ward, for the great questions of Paul and Scott to tease out the details that made the system work as planned.
In my view one of the most valuable videos in the TH-cam universe. Big thank to PC for the careful explanation and interesting insight into those specific control arithmetics.
Incredible video, I'm blown away by the detail and background stories! I wish my small country of Sweden could make such videos, we (SAAB primarily) have after all made a lot of good airplanes, like Draken, Viggen and now the Gripen. If any Swedish viewer know about such videos, please tell me. The story about intercepting the SR-71 in Viggen was great, as one example I found.
Mooch, really great episode! I got to the F-14 RAG in early 2000 and started out in the A but switched to the B halfway through the syllabus. I only ever flew the DFCS version and the conversions had just wrapped up. It was very interesting to hear about the beta dot feedback being so critical. That exact same input helped cure a very dangerous and somewhat unrecoverable departure mode the F-18 was plagued with called “falling leaf”. Once they modified the F-18 to our 10.7 flight control software incorporating beta dot feedback the jet was almost impossible to depart with symmetrical loading and we never had another falling leaf in the community. They actually removed it from NATOPS and allowed the spin recovery switch cover in the Rhino to be safety wired closed.
Actually I think the beta-dot function was in the Hornet first, we then used it for the F-14. I'm also pretty familiar with the 10.7 OFP upgrade - outstanding design predominantly by Mike Heller, the McD / Boeing engineer I mentioned who said "sideslip is the root of all evil"
Thanks Paul! I was one of the many Naval Aviators who benefited from the amazing work you and the other NAVAIR, Grumman and MD engineers put into these amazing platforms. Thanks for the episode and clarifying my misunderstanding of the timeline. I think I understood DFCS better after hearing your explanation in the video than when I did in my 1000+ hours flying B upgrades with the Pukin Dogs from 2000-2004.
I really consider this to be a gem concerning the Tomcat. I am excited to see more like this come out. Thank you for putting this together so well Sir!
Great segment Mooch, thanks to Scott and PC....sure wish I would have had the opportunity to fly the system....sounds like it was the much needed fix....cheers v/r Munch.....
WOW, awesome detailed analysis and history lesson on the development of this amazing aircraft. The engineering analysis was a great add to the conversation.
I enjoyed reading the comments - Hi Pinto! Yes, flying with you was memorable in many ways, sorry about the unnecessary excitement from the back seat that day. To answer a few of the questions - it was GEC Marconi in Rochester UK that built the DFCS. Hank Agnew from NAVAIR Flight Controls pushed hard for the system and the lead Navy FC engineer Buddy Denham (of F-18 “Magic Carpet” fame) did an absolutely fantastic job on the design side. Yes we reconnected the AOA signal from the nose probe to the DFCS as the primary AOA input. I’ve heard about the wing sweep “option” for recovering the airplane and aerodynamically it could have been beneficial - but would have required the pilot to add another difficult time consuming step in an already-complex emergency procedure while under physical duress (eyeball out g), not really practical in that kind of a situation.
Greetings Ward. Not many people have delved into the Aleutian Islands campaign in Alaska during ww2. There was some interesting ground combat and air support involved. Just throwing it out there to cover it one day? Love your stuff keep it up.
Thank you for this Ward. The mechanical controls from the sixties, modified by some digital control. The F14 had some bad habits apparently. Ward has covered this a couple of times, via some very qualified guests. Again thanks. God bless Kara Hultgreen.
AIMD Hyd shop, (VF-213) Miramar, '77. I became an really good at overhauling and testing the AICS and spoiler actuators--They were the most sophisticated hyd components we had ever seen, like the advancement skipped 3 generations just for the F-14! It took 2 days to run one thru the battery of tests.
Great episode. I saw a comment about why wasn't more done in the beginning of the F 14 program to prevent some of the issues it experienced. I recognize the usual culprits to weapon procurement (complexity, availability of ideal components, and funding) and can relate from my own experiences with new weapon systems. There is a push to incorporate advanced weapons sooner than later to maintain an edge and sometimes the 85% solution is good enough to get that advantage. I love the Tomcat and followed it since I was a kid in the early 70s. I think they correctly prioritized getting the big fighter to push out far from the carrier and deliver Phoenix missiles to stop a Russian/Soviet air attack. From day one, the F-14 could press home attacks with long, medium, and short range missiles, all the way down to guns to knock bombers and enemy missiles out.
@@WardCarroll. Hi Ward, I’m a big fan of your channel. I try to pitch in for these great programs that you produce. The reason I’m interested in your channel is because I started flying as a teenager, then continued in the Air Force when they had flying clubs. I was a load master on C1 41s at McGuire. Went to engineering college on the G.I. bill and finished my private license nearby at Teterboro. At the time, late 70s early 80s becoming a professional pilot was very difficult and the airlines seem to be way out of reach. Finished my career as a construction engineer and manager at 60 got my commercial and CFI, instructor for two days, PC 12 charter pilot for one year, then to the airlines at 61. Aging out, I started charter flying a citation 10 until Covid. Ever since flying citation 10s as a contractor. I really enjoy your presentation of the behind the scenes thinking and activity that was going on during those times. Mover is pretty good too, but I don’t like when his guests dump on the military that I love. Although I don’t see him doing that himself. Many of us out here really appreciate what you’re doing for us.
What a treat to get another conversation delving deep under the skin of the legendary F14 and its story. Fascinating to hear the straight dope, and hope we can have more like this and with these guests, just tremendous.
I'm a retired corporate jet pilot with a degree in aeronautical engineering, and after hearing P.C. describe the the control coupling modes with resulting adverse yaw and propensity to flat spin, my head was swimming. Adverse yaw is a well known phenomenon from the earliest days of aircraft design, but it sounds like the original control design on the F-14 was a hot mess. I wonder what the philosophy of having the elevons control roll in the first place instead of ailerons and wing spoilers. More roll authority when the wings were swept at high speed? Probably too much inertia for ailerons/spoilers to effect a decent roll rate. When the F-14 first came out, I thought the airplane was really cool; but in retrospect, my opinion of the airplane is that it was just too big (for shipboard ops), too heavy, too complex, and just too much of everything; but it was quite the star in Top Gun.
keep in mind the F-14 was primarily designed to haul 6 Phoenix missiles rapidly into position to protect the fleet against airborne threats. developments to improve it as a Fighter jet came later as its weaknesses were explored in the real world
Man that shot of the F14’s spine with all the access covers off was impressive!!! I know more can be accomplished with digital flight control systems but those older analog systems were a beautiful mechanical work of art! 👏 (Way cooler to look at than a bunch of black boxes wired to servos…)
I purchased the F14 in DCS to fly in VR. I made it about 30 seconds before I was in a flat spin. I laughed and said it had to be a joke from the developers.
Interesting. I have a lot of hours in the DCS F-14A (and less in the B) and I don't think I've put it in a spin even once. 🤔 (not boasting, I just don't think I've done it and I don't think I'm more than an average sim-pilot).
@@Akm72then you haven't pushed her far enough 😉 once you get close to the limit at higher altitudes you'll get into situations where you feel her starting to depart.
I love flying the f14 now. Its so raw, and challenging. But yes ive been in a few spins, maybe recovered 1 or 2. I could only imagine how impossible it would be with those G's @Akm72
My 1st flat spin in the DCS F-14 was during a dog fight against a MiG-21, I went vertical, lost too much speed while just past vertical and rolling to keep my lift vector just behind the MiG's tail. Then the wing dropped and the nose went sideways and splat
We have been in the presence of some Brilliant People on your show today. This was really interesting, I am an Electronic/IT Tech that Loves aircraft . They were able to explain what they did and with my career knowledge and experience, I mostly understood the process they followed and " sort of" how they were doing it. These men's work saved lives of our precious Military hardware and people. They also continued on to the people that Kept the Tomcats in the air, so the pilots could protect us and our homeland. thanks Mr. Ward
Did you, Ward, notice these changes in flight envelopes from the backseat (i.e. your head was steadier when making inputs in your weapons systems while the pilot was yanking and banking)? Loved the brain picking session; it brings understanding to why things happened/didn’t happen. Thanks! And Merry Christmas/ Happy Holidays!
Awesome story, Gentlemen!! Always cool to hear background info related to the early years of my career. Was in VF-14 with Slapshot and Slammer when the Tophatters incorporated DFCS in our A's. Was onboard TR for work-ups when a large wire bundle behind the stbd side FCCs, roll and yaw if I remember correctly, rubbed through and caught fire due to the slight difference is overall size of them computers. Close friend and I spent 3 days repairing that.
First let me say that I really enjoy your videos and streams. They are informative and fact based, a giant relief from the vitriol so many others seem to have. But I do wish that I could speak and understand "aviator". I pause a lot to check Google for the explanations. Although, this one was very nicely done. Thank you all. Good job.😊
@@JSFGuy What was never explained - in Topgun Maverick - as Mav and Charlie were madly in love/lust with each other, what happened to her. There wasn't even a mention of her in TG Mav.
Mooch, I recently watched a documentary on the F14. I was surprised to learn that the F14 was capable of firing six phoenix missiles on six targets simultaneously. Did you ever experience that as the RIO. Would love to see a video on the full weapons capability of the F14. I am not a pilot, just an enthusiast. Respectfully Always Faithful, Always Forward Aaron Beaulieu
I was on the Stennis for the last west coast cruise for the F-14. As an I-level AT, I was glad to see them go. It was pain just to get the gear to my shop.
Hello to Paul Conigliaro, and for the great association we had in Grumman on multiple most-interesting flight test projects through our connection with Paul as Flight Test engineer and myself as Instrumentation engineer in Grumman's Flight Test Department.
@@PaulConigliaro-z5c Yes, this is Jim Ryan. I am still doing quite well, all things considered, as I approach my 85th birthday! I shared this great interview of you with John Zubko and others. All the best to you.
Great analysis and cool guests on the channel! Thank you! 👍 In DCS, I successfully managed with a flat spin on an F-14A & B using my own method by separate thrust control (since I did not yet have dual throttle handles, I simply had turned off the corresponding engine, that had an even greater effect for stopping rotation than moving it to the idle position). The main thing was not to confuse the engine, but this was also a solvable problem! Altitude loss was about 15-20,000 feet. 😎
@@WardCarroll Philly is hosting the 250th Anniversary of the US Navy and Marine Corps. There are supposed to be ships in Philly and Navy, Marine and Coast Guard Aircraft. They word is they are trying to get the Blues onboard as well.
I really enjoy watching the content here. It was sad losing Kara Hultgreen. I respect her and all Naval Aviators. It takes Great Talent and Courage to land an aircraft on a pitching rolling flight deck during day or night! Rotary or Fixed Wing, Naval Aviators ARE The Best!👍👍🇺🇸
I am not at all surprised that Scott has no trouble remembering the trim working in reverse the day before the first flight. Right stuff indeed, I would still be running.
Ward, your vids keep getting better and better. Your interviewing skills have improved by leaps and bounds. One small example is acting as translator and stopping your guests to help the audience catch up . Great job integrating visuals in places too. It's an extra step that goes a long way. Congrats to you and your team for a great year. Looking forward to 25. 🫡Carry on.
Point Mugu wasn't just OT, it was DT, specifically all weapons and software integration. All new aircraft Operational Flight Program (OFP) software was developed and tested at Mugu. Pax river did FQ&P, stores-sep etc (basic aircraft stuff). Pax river shut down F-14 stuff around 2001-2002, Point Mugu kept going until 2004ish.
I can concur with the Pax shut down of Tomcat ops ~ 2000. 1998 Dex Poindexter had come to VF-32 with terrific stories of flying the DFCS jets, and before he detached for NASA, he did me a great favor by flying us into Pax in a Gypsy jet to 'rush' TPS after I had again applied a second or third time. Sadly, as a June 2001 graduate (TPS Class 119), both jets had already been transferred over to VX-9. Sadly, I got no DFCS time, nor any further F-14 time in my logbook.
Mr. Carroll, I’ve got a story for you. In the late 90’s I was living in Southern Maryland working for Pepsi out of LaPlata. Being 13 in 1986 Top Gun was obviously the movie that changed all of our lives as young men! Anyway, my entire route was Pax River. The Air Ops Tower, the new Naval Headquarters Building and even the underground catapult. But most importantly, the hangar with the DFCS Tomcat sitting directly next to my Pepsi Machine. I mean like 20 feet away. On Presidents’ Day 1997, the hangar was completely and totally deserted. The DFCS Tomcat had the canopy open and the ladder down. I may or may not have taken a seat and fulfilled a childhood dream. I most certainly would have been fired if not worse. It was worth the risk. I became a Green Beret years later, and yearned to see the Tomcat in action. But it was retired just months before I got my chance. Maybe we will meet one day and I’ll tell you the entire story!
Tom cat tease
Ejection seat safety qualifications??? Who needs those as a civilian...
@@michaelchristensen5421 Pfffft! The safety pins were in. They WERE in, weren't they? 🤣
@@dougerrohmerthe seats were probably safed and the pins were probably in. And if not, he was probably more careful getting in and out than the average guy who jumps in and out daily. And he lived to tell about it, didn’t get caught or fired, and joined the army! Thank you for your service and for keeping that Pepsi machine serviced (I️ know that machine in Hgr 201)
I saw you get in my airplane, but I didn't say anything.
As a former F-14 AE I still have my pocket copy of the DFCS fault code book. Was an awesome tool identifying failures and where to start looking.
Aviation Everything, I was an AE as well.
Seeing the F-14 recover from the flat spin after the ejections reminds me of the "Cornfield Bomber", an F-106 that recovered from a flat spin after the pilot ejected and subsequently executed a landing in a cornfield that met the definition of a "great" landing. i.e. one where you get to use the plane again.
After the pilotless belly landing it was repaired and put back in service. When all the 106s were retired that one was put in the USAF museum.
Classmate of mine at UPT was a Montana Guard pilot who later flew that F-106.
I was electrician. I spent many hours working on the flight control system, and the wind sweep system, and on that Turtle back with all the panels open watching the flight control rods and watching the mixer assembly, which was very fascinating. It was really a solid system, but it taught me How to troubleshoot which I still use to this day.
I agree, and I spent many hours replacing hydraulic components because electricians said they were bad, until they finally found that they had a bad component 😬
@@tomcatbuzzas someone that does hydraulics I never trust the electrician, also as someone who does electrical I never trust the hydraulics guy😂
Mooch, thanks for another great episode! I also had the pleasure of interviewing PC as part of the mishap investigation for the VF-32 stuck spoiler mishap down in the PROA - Puerto Rican Op Area - circa 1998. Fortunately both guys got out, but the jet went down in a pretty deep area, was unrecoverable, and we had little to work with to try to postulate and substantiate the catalyst for the popped spoiler. PC was a terrific source for understanding the system and formulating some theories. And still learning about the Tomcat 30 years later! Great seeing a couple of ole CVW-7 buds too!
So you're saying there's a Tomcat sitting on the ocean floor off PR to this day?
As far as I know it was never recovered.
Absolutely fascinating episode, Mooch! Thank you for bringing it to us.
The topic of roll control using spoilers rather than ailerons caused me to recall that the A-6, another Grumman product, which preceded the F-14 by several years, used a very similar design feature. My short but vivid stint as a pilot in VMA (AW) 224 during workups for our WESPAC deployment with CVW-15 aboard Coral Sea in 1971, I found that spoiler roll control made lineup challenging in the groove, because rapid lateral corrections, especially during in-close penetration of the "burble" from the island, not only induced Dutch roll wobble, but also due to elevated spoiler drag caused an increased sink rate which required an immediate power correction to prevent going low at the critical point approaching the rounddown! That phenomenon surely contrbuted to my infamous night, near ramp-strike which put a new dent in Coral Sea's roundown, and got me a ticket back to Cherry Point with my tail between my legs. Years later, I redeemed myself with an outstanding CQ period in the A-4 with six OK, no comment three-wire traps on the Lady Lex. But I can tell you from experience that the Skyawk was much easier to bring aboard the ship than the wallowing Intruder!
Bravo Zulu, Mooch!
Bear Owen, LtCol (Ret)
Wow! This is one of the most enjoyable episodes I have seen. In particular, I appreciated how PC could take a very complex system and make it mostly understandable by a layperson. Kudos and thank you, Mooch, Scott and PC!
I'm so happy the conversation finally turned to the maintainers. I got to thinking how badass it would be to have served in the VX-23 PP shop, then in the Fighter community after the engine swap to the GE. I served in the Prowler community up at Whidbey and made 3 Med floats from 79-82 dealing with the really unresponsive J52. Per our pilots, the EA-6B was quite a handful to get back aboard the ship as well. Many great memories and still friends to this day are some of our squadron mates from that time frame. Great video again CDR Mooch and thank you for another fantastic and informative episode. Keep them coming.
You may be interested to know that we eventually replaced the Air Nav Computer in the Prowler with the same digital flight control computer that went in the Tomcat - different software, of course. EA-6Bs had DFCS for the last few years of their life - we added the improved control laws for landing configuration as well!
At 34:20 you're describing exactly what the F-15 was built with. An analog mixing unit (CSBPC) coupled with a three axis digital series input (CAS) to the actuators.
Good stuff guys. Thank you!
We have the Man that designed the ejection seat for the F-14 in our church, and it is interesting to hear him talk about this aircraft
Isn’t it a Martin Baker seat?
@ very good. It is a Martin Baker seat. Also used in the F-18 and F 35 at least in the Navy version of it. James Holgerson, who also was one of the engineers that worked on the seat worked and designed HR scope so that when the seat came out, it would make sure it would write itself up before deploying a shoot.
@@paulinturkey F-14 A/B used the same seat, the F-14D got the updated NACES seat, both were MB designs.
@@FBCTrona Yeh, I know it is, I was just a little confused. Not wishing to appear picky but the phrase that you "have the man that designed the F14 seat." is a bit strong..... Unless he was working on the original F14 Mk7 seat in the UK? I'm not wishing to diminish whatever he did, and he may well have worked for MB USA, but that didn't start until the mid/late 80's to my knowledge after the award of the NACES contract.. By that time, the principles were already well established and the Mk14 was well under development. Personally, I've only flown the Mk4 and Mk10 seat, but I have to say that I'm not familiar with the phrase "HR Scope"?. As it happens, I lived next door to RAF Chalgrove, the ancestral home of MB, whilst I was serving.
@@FBCTronaHilarious!!
Mooch used the quintessential old man phrase - Back in our Day. It's funny, I still see a group of old guys on the porch, in thier rocking chairs, talking about the old days.
The difference is the level of understanding about these issues, is way beyond the rest of us.
Totally keeping me engaged the whole way.
Thank you again Mr. Carroll for the quality content, guests, and consummate attention to detail.
Always a treat and wish you and your family a happy holidays!
"getting deep into the control laws" is great, for me! Thanks to you guys for a really "meaty" video!
In the late 60's, I was a helper making motor mounts for the F-14 Tomcat. 12 hr. shifts, 6 days a week. I'll never forget the screaming boring sounds of those cutters on the castings. Hope I helped you fellas stay alive.
I now know more about the Tomcat FCS than I do about my own car's steering.
DFCS was pretty sweet, particularly behind the boat. The gouge used to be to roll out on the left edge-line and the jet would sort of "slime" it's way over to centerline. Fist time with DFCS, rolled out on the left edge line and -pow- you were lined up on the left edge line. For BFM it was mostly better but there were a few times where you could attempt a maneuver (pirouette or "corkscrew") and trip anti-spin logic. The maneuver was high AOA and slow, stuff the stick to get air over the tails, full rudder + about 1/2 opposite stick. Once the yaw starts, full aft stick. If done correctly the jet would swap ends in about 2-3 seconds. With AFCS you might trip a momentary spin arrow, but with DFCS the jet would just counter the yaw and stop. Overall the jet was far better with it (wing rock suppression was pretty sweet also).
I remember these days... I was stationed at Deep Submergence Unit in San Diego when Lt. Hultgreen's tomcat went down off the coast. We were tasked with recovering the F-14 and also ended up locating and recovering the Lt's remains. I'm glad that we could give the family some closure and the Navy the opportunity to look over the fighter. The plane sat at NAS North Island's DRMO back lot for a long time after we recovered it and the investigation was complete.
Do you remember the new bridle system that was used to lift the airframe from the ocean? An original attempt failed and new equipement was required?
Not sure how Carroll get this people to be on his TH-cam videos, but his doing a hell of a job … best interviews and news on TH-cam if you’re interested in the world events.
Never a dull video on Mooch's channel!!
Ward, the video you showed of the F-14 in a flat spin was a test flight at Pax by CDR D. D. Smith, Chief Test Pilot at NATC, in the late 1970s. He describes the event in his book "Above Average, Naval Aviation the Hard Way." He was our speaker at the A-4 Skyhawk Association luncheon at Hook 23. Pleasure to meet him.
In the late 60's and early 70's I was an Air Force AFCS Specialist on Fighters. My first assignment after Tech School was to Eglin AFB in System Command where I got to work on every fighter that the AF flew at that time. I also worked with the Manufacturer Tech Rep Engineers there and gained a lot of additional knowledge about flight controls gaining my 4th stripe (E-5). This video brought back a lot of memories to refresh my memory on AFCS systems. Great video, thank you.
Ex Flight systems tech; terms like ARI, control laws, coupling, etc this episode was right up my street. Superb.
Great show Mooch, Interesting march to the future we take for granted.
What a great Jet the F14 was. We all would have loved to see the F14 with the glass cockpit of today.
Thanks for the History lesson. God bless you all.
I was an AMH (Aviation Structure Mechanic-Hydraulics) in SATS (Strike Aircraft Test Squadron) in PAX River Maryland working on the DFCS systems and AC 230 and AC 231 were the 2 DFCS aircraft, I believe in 1994 to 1997. We worked with the Civilian Engineers. One thing in particular the Flight Control rigging had to be very close to perfect stick to stabs. Cavanaugh was the Grumman test pilot at that time and later before I left Lt. Claffy arrived to be a test pilort (a pilot I worked with in a prior command VF-32).
I really enjoy your in depth long form video's, the shorter concise one's are good too, they're straight to the point. Always good to see semi-regular of your show Astronaut Kelly back!
As a Tomcat Avionics Technician and now semi-pro airplane designer, this was fascinating. A microchip cleaning up the aircraft's leftover flaws is so smart and these guys did a very valuable job. Both guys had amazing stuff. Thanks for coming on and discussing it.
Ward. Always bringing the top guys to chat. Thanks again for the best interviews. Take care, fly right.
Back to your Tomcat roots!
Hey Scott and Paul!
It’s been a while since I had the “honor” fixing PC’s lower leg restraints after he was already strapped into my backseat- so we’re almost married in some states! 🤣
Hey Pinto - look at me! Man that was fun ..... if I remember correctly (and I do ...) - I was having trouble with one of the restraints and the PC hopped up and dove in to help get it attached, and on the way out he snagged my beaded handle, and half my LPU inflated in the cockpit. Walk of Shame back to the PR shop for another LPU ... along with a well-deserved "What the f- are you doing, sir?" from the PRs ... and off we went for a fine jaunt in Salty Dog 205. What a great memory!
@ didn’t we jump into a Spare F/A-18D together when our F-14A went down on the ramp when we were chasing Rooster on a second good deal…. Oh no! Or was it the time Tammy put a single seat spare on for the Tomcat Chase! The slick brand new Block 15 with the big motors!
@ yes, I️ do remember you doing the crooked walk back to the PR shop! Great job on the episode with Mooch! Fantastic summary of the program!
Yes I think we did!
Excellent episode, Mooch! It's great that you, Scott & Paul have documented this particular element of the Tomcat's history, as the DFCS addressed so many of the difficulties we had for so many years flying the jet. Even though I flew the A, B & D, I retired before DFCS went operational - I'd have loved to fly with it! Also, given my thesis in PG school was on a spin indicator system for the F-14, I found all of the history discussed by you guys to be really comprehensive - so much info on the Tomcat all in one discussion!!
Thanks, Jim.
This was awesome. It's mind blowing to learn in so much detail, just how much work they went through to get this improvement done.
I worked two tours at AIMD Oceana and many hours repairing those analog Pitch, Roll, and Yaw Computers. The worse part of repairing those things was when the power supply modules would go. They had three transformers (if I remember correctly) that would just melt, and the entire unit would be full of transformer goo. That stench of burn't transformer when we would open them up. Memories!!!!!
Ward, what a great interview. It's a testament to you and your guests that questions that naturally come to me as a viewer when certain topics are discussed are promptly brought up and answered. Technical enough to be extremely interesting but also you have a great understanding of what information we layman might need to be clarified or expanded on.
Commander, wow, and well done! What a great program! The F-14 was a tough bird to fly. It took a lot of skill and intense concentration. Your 15-year survival flying that plane was quite an achievement. The Kelly family is incredible for all their achievements.
Very fascinating. I really regret not having more conversations with my late father about the F14, he was a Grumman Tech Rep so our whole family grew up with that fighter. Ward, a model would really help people wrap their head around these flight control inputs, I think I understand it in principal though. We have so many fighters now that are much better, but what an achievement building that aircraft in the 70's. I still remember my father coming home from work with good and bad news on the Tomcat, our hearts sank if one crashed. I dearly miss the F14 and our whole family was sad to see it retired. Love your channel!
These are incredible machines that require superhuman abilities. Thank you!
CAPT Kelly, thanks for recounting the story of sitting in the airplane during EMI testing; it brought up some pleasant memories for me. My first job as a newly minted EE was working as an EMC/EMI engineer for Lockheed. As EMI guys we typically get a lot of side-eye from Mechanical Engineers who often pretend not to understand what we do. When I got on the job my cubicle was right in the middle of a bunch of ME's. When I came in the door in the morning I faced some good natured teasing from them with remarks like, "Here comes the Wizard," and "Hey, John, where's your hat ... the one with the stars and moons on it?" I thought it was great fun. 😁
having both Paul and Scott share their thoughts is amazing, love this episode.
This was outstanding. Thank you Ward. Very,very interesting
Thanks!
Thanks for the generous support, David!
Wow, huge task. I was a Hydraulics Mech in VF-11 84-88. Spent some extra time with Grumman learning about the AFCS both from the mechanical and computer side. I don't think at that time there was a lot of interface with the Mech's and Grumman regarding the overall flight characteristics between the two systems. Great story assembling the task, and the outcome. The Tomcat was a very complex engineering marvel for her time.
Great video Mooch. I am an air force guy, but I have always admired the F14 and everyone who have flown it. I still think the Navy made a mistake when they divested themselves of the F14. Perhaps one of the worst mistakes our military has made of shutting down a weapons platform. Now the air force is in the process of making a similar mistake with the A10. Both aircraft have no comparison tto each other or in the skies. No other aircraft has had then or now. The F14 was so beautiful, and right as they get all the early kinks worked out, they just up and say bye-bye. But the F14 lives on. Its in the heart and soul of all of you flew it, maintained it, built it, and those of us who never had that experience. This video had me going back looking on my computer of all the pictures and video of planes. I was surprised to see that I have more pictures and video of the F14 than any other. Have a wonderful Christmas and a Happy New Year Mooch.
F-18EX and F-35C are pretty good too.. Fly Navy!
This post was so well done. Having Scott Kelley and Paul Conigliaro from Grumman covering this issue was amazing. I always assumed the F-14 with wings swept full forward lowering the approach speed and AOA made it more manageable than other fighters. From this not so. Also the thought of those large rudders not always in sync with the pedals. I was locked into this whole show. I have no Tacair experience. Protected the carrier a couple times with the P-3 when conditions didn’t allow flight ops. Did one practice approach to 300 ft or so. All the respect in the world for those that do carrier ops especially in recent turbulent times.
Once the full spin developed, the "eyes out" was worse for the pilot than the RIO based upon their difference in distance from the center of rotation. Can you imagine the ejection posture said pilot would have assumed in such a situation? That's gotta be rough on teh back. RIO goes, 0.4 seconds later the pilot goes. No face curtain on the Martin Baker Mk 14 Air Crew Ejection Seat(NACES) used on the Delta birds, the previous seat was the Mk-7 used in the A , A+/B variants used a face curtain. Both have saved many an Aviators lives including the Tomcat's 2nd Test flight. That was a spicy jump out, right into the fireball.
WOW - FANTASTIC episode ! I was on the program side of flight testing for the F-16 back then - thoroughly enjoyed the interplay I saw among the service professionals in this domain. I wonder (and hope) you have a history person - maybe going for a PhD - to take this and other episodes to form a no-kidding history from original sources - what we wish we could have for the dinosaurs, for example.
One thing is clear to me from this video discussion about the F-14 Tomcat is that, as good as it was, there was definitely good reasons for its replacement.
Ward, thanks. One of the best episodes of any channel about NAVAIR. Your two guests were absolutely excellent. I hope there is talent like they have still in the Navy and industry keeping America safe
I did not know most of that info when I lost my right engine on a cat shot fully loaded. But what I did know was do not use lateral stick to correct a rolling yaw when yawing at low airspeed. I was flying an A model
You are alive, so Master Jettison worked and you are a 'good stick'.
This was a most interesting interview. Thank you gentlemen for all the work that was done on the F-14 to make it safer for those flying it and thank you, Ward, for the great questions of Paul and Scott to tease out the details that made the system work as planned.
In my view one of the most valuable videos in the TH-cam universe. Big thank to PC for the careful explanation and interesting insight into those specific control arithmetics.
Thanks!
Thanks for the support, Gerry!
Great episode!
Absolutely awesome interview. I found the explanation of the "power" and "series" actuators to be really interesting! 👍
Incredible video, I'm blown away by the detail and background stories! I wish my small country of Sweden could make such videos, we (SAAB primarily) have after all made a lot of good airplanes, like Draken, Viggen and now the Gripen. If any Swedish viewer know about such videos, please tell me. The story about intercepting the SR-71 in Viggen was great, as one example I found.
Mooch, really great episode! I got to the F-14 RAG in early 2000 and started out in the A but switched to the B halfway through the syllabus. I only ever flew the DFCS version and the conversions had just wrapped up. It was very interesting to hear about the beta dot feedback being so critical. That exact same input helped cure a very dangerous and somewhat unrecoverable departure mode the F-18 was plagued with called “falling leaf”. Once they modified the F-18 to our 10.7 flight control software incorporating beta dot feedback the jet was almost impossible to depart with symmetrical loading and we never had another falling leaf in the community. They actually removed it from NATOPS and allowed the spin recovery switch cover in the Rhino to be safety wired closed.
Actually I think the beta-dot function was in the Hornet first, we then used it for the F-14. I'm also pretty familiar with the 10.7 OFP upgrade - outstanding design predominantly by Mike Heller, the McD / Boeing engineer I mentioned who said "sideslip is the root of all evil"
Thanks Paul! I was one of the many Naval Aviators who benefited from the amazing work you and the other NAVAIR, Grumman and MD engineers put into these amazing platforms. Thanks for the episode and clarifying my misunderstanding of the timeline. I think I understood DFCS better after hearing your explanation in the video than when I did in my 1000+ hours flying B upgrades with the Pukin Dogs from 2000-2004.
I really consider this to be a gem concerning the Tomcat. I am excited to see more like this come out. Thank you for putting this together so well Sir!
Great segment Mooch, thanks to Scott and PC....sure wish I would have had the opportunity to fly the system....sounds like it was the much needed fix....cheers v/r Munch.....
Thanks, Munch!
Wow if only it could have been installed from the beginning. What a difference. Thanks Mooch great info as always. 👍🇺🇸
Great stuff Ward thanks.
Seasons greetings and bleatings to you all who avidly watch your great channel 🤘😎🎄🕊🇫🇴
Really enjoyed this interview! It was cool to get to hear them talk about the program together!
WOW, awesome detailed analysis and history lesson on the development of this amazing aircraft. The engineering analysis was a great add to the conversation.
And I think I read a comment from Jim Ryan - hi and I’m fondly remembering our great old days with F-14 1X!
Greetings fellow F-14 Flight Test Engineer. (Ordnance Systems at Strike Aircraft Directorate)!!!
I enjoyed reading the comments - Hi Pinto! Yes, flying with you was memorable in many ways, sorry about the unnecessary excitement from the back seat that day. To answer a few of the questions - it was GEC Marconi in Rochester UK that built the DFCS. Hank Agnew from NAVAIR Flight Controls pushed hard for the system and the lead Navy FC engineer Buddy Denham (of F-18 “Magic Carpet” fame) did an absolutely fantastic job on the design side. Yes we reconnected the AOA signal from the nose probe to the DFCS as the primary AOA input. I’ve heard about the wing sweep “option” for recovering the airplane and aerodynamically it could have been beneficial - but would have required the pilot to add another difficult time consuming step in an already-complex emergency procedure while under physical duress (eyeball out g), not really practical in that kind of a situation.
I believe that GEC Marconi went into BAE Systems who remain contributors to Air Power of the free world.
Greetings Ward. Not many people have delved into the Aleutian Islands campaign in Alaska during ww2. There was some interesting ground combat and air support involved. Just throwing it out there to cover it one day? Love your stuff keep it up.
This was fascinating! Great interview. What a tremendous improvement to safety.
Thank you for this Ward. The mechanical controls from the sixties, modified by some digital control. The F14 had some bad habits apparently. Ward has covered this a couple of times, via some very qualified guests. Again thanks. God bless Kara Hultgreen.
AIMD Hyd shop, (VF-213) Miramar, '77. I became an really good at overhauling and testing the AICS and spoiler actuators--They were the most sophisticated hyd components we had ever seen, like the advancement skipped 3 generations just for the F-14! It took 2 days to run one thru the battery of tests.
Great episode. I saw a comment about why wasn't more done in the beginning of the F 14 program to prevent some of the issues it experienced. I recognize the usual culprits to weapon procurement (complexity, availability of ideal components, and funding) and can relate from my own experiences with new weapon systems. There is a push to incorporate advanced weapons sooner than later to maintain an edge and sometimes the 85% solution is good enough to get that advantage. I love the Tomcat and followed it since I was a kid in the early 70s. I think they correctly prioritized getting the big fighter to push out far from the carrier and deliver Phoenix missiles to stop a Russian/Soviet air attack. From day one, the F-14 could press home attacks with long, medium, and short range missiles, all the way down to guns to knock bombers and enemy missiles out.
I still remember dealing with DFCS supply issues while assigned to the COMNAVAIRPAC staff in the late 90’s as part of Force Supply (N41).
These are the best videos on youtube imo
Thanks!
Thanks for the support, Fred!
@@WardCarroll. Hi Ward, I’m a big fan of your channel. I try to pitch in for these great programs that you produce. The reason I’m interested in your channel is because I started flying as a teenager, then continued in the Air Force when they had flying clubs. I was a load master on C1 41s at McGuire. Went to engineering college on the G.I. bill and finished my private license nearby at Teterboro. At the time, late 70s early 80s becoming a professional pilot was very difficult and the airlines seem to be way out of reach. Finished my career as a construction engineer and manager at 60 got my commercial and CFI, instructor for two days, PC 12 charter pilot for one year, then to the airlines at 61. Aging out, I started charter flying a citation 10 until Covid. Ever since flying citation 10s as a contractor. I really enjoy your presentation of the behind the scenes thinking and activity that was going on during those times. Mover is pretty good too, but I don’t like when his guests dump on the military that I love. Although I don’t see him doing that himself. Many of us out here really appreciate what you’re doing for us.
Fascinating discussion. I am always amazed at the careers of the people you interview. Such exceptional careers!
Mooch, you have ACTUAL bonafide astronauts as buddies! That's pretty awesome 😎
A "wonky" but very informative video about an aspect of military aviation that most folks know nothing about - how to "fly safe!"
What a treat to get another conversation delving deep under the skin of the legendary F14 and its story. Fascinating to hear the straight dope, and hope we can have more like this and with these guests, just tremendous.
I'm a retired corporate jet pilot with a degree in aeronautical engineering, and after hearing P.C. describe the the control coupling modes with resulting adverse yaw and propensity to flat spin, my head was swimming. Adverse yaw is a well known phenomenon from the earliest days of aircraft design, but it sounds like the original control design on the F-14 was a hot mess. I wonder what the philosophy of having the elevons control roll in the first place instead of ailerons and wing spoilers. More roll authority when the wings were swept at high speed? Probably too much inertia for ailerons/spoilers to effect a decent roll rate. When the F-14 first came out, I thought the airplane was really cool; but in retrospect, my opinion of the airplane is that it was just too big (for shipboard ops), too heavy, too complex, and just too much of everything; but it was quite the star in Top Gun.
keep in mind the F-14 was primarily designed to haul 6 Phoenix missiles rapidly into position to protect the fleet against airborne threats. developments to improve it as a Fighter jet came later as its weaknesses were explored in the real world
Man that shot of the F14’s spine with all the access covers off was impressive!!! I know more can be accomplished with digital flight control systems but those older analog systems were a beautiful mechanical work of art! 👏 (Way cooler to look at than a bunch of black boxes wired to servos…)
I purchased the F14 in DCS to fly in VR. I made it about 30 seconds before I was in a flat spin. I laughed and said it had to be a joke from the developers.
Interesting. I have a lot of hours in the DCS F-14A (and less in the B) and I don't think I've put it in a spin even once. 🤔 (not boasting, I just don't think I've done it and I don't think I'm more than an average sim-pilot).
@@Akm72then you haven't pushed her far enough 😉 once you get close to the limit at higher altitudes you'll get into situations where you feel her starting to depart.
@@dannyd7714 Fair enough 😄
I love flying the f14 now. Its so raw, and challenging. But yes ive been in a few spins, maybe recovered 1 or 2. I could only imagine how impossible it would be with those G's @Akm72
My 1st flat spin in the DCS F-14 was during a dog fight against a MiG-21, I went vertical, lost too much speed while just past vertical and rolling to keep my lift vector just behind the MiG's tail. Then the wing dropped and the nose went sideways and splat
War machines are still machines; amazing feats of engineering. Always appreciate topics that dive into the development of these systems.
We have been in the presence of some Brilliant People on your show today. This was really interesting, I am an Electronic/IT Tech that Loves aircraft . They were able to explain what they did and with my career knowledge and experience, I mostly understood the process they followed and " sort of" how they were doing it. These men's work saved lives of our precious Military hardware and people. They also continued on to the people that Kept the Tomcats in the air, so the pilots could protect us and our homeland. thanks Mr. Ward
Did you, Ward, notice these changes in flight envelopes from the backseat (i.e. your head was steadier when making inputs in your weapons systems while the pilot was yanking and banking)?
Loved the brain picking session; it brings understanding to why things happened/didn’t happen. Thanks! And Merry Christmas/ Happy Holidays!
Never flew with DFCS.
Awesome story, Gentlemen!! Always cool to hear background info related to the early years of my career. Was in VF-14 with Slapshot and Slammer when the Tophatters incorporated DFCS in our A's. Was onboard TR for work-ups when a large wire bundle behind the stbd side FCCs, roll and yaw if I remember correctly, rubbed through and caught fire due to the slight difference is overall size of them computers. Close friend and I spent 3 days repairing that.
First let me say that I really enjoy your videos and streams. They are informative and fact based, a giant relief from the vitriol so many others seem to have. But I do wish that I could speak and understand "aviator". I pause a lot to check Google for the explanations. Although, this one was very nicely done. Thank you all. Good job.😊
It's a shame that 'Maverick' and 'Goose' didn't have the mod! 🙂
@@hamshackleton would have changed the plot haha That was a crappy A model with the TF30 garbage motors in it.
@@JSFGuy What was never explained - in Topgun Maverick - as Mav and Charlie were madly in love/lust with each other, what happened to her. There wasn't even a mention of her in TG Mav.
@@hamshackleton Right, that was just another temporary affair in the market.
@@hamshackletonTom Cruise did not like Kelly McGillis at all! You have clearance, you can read about it
Mooch, I recently watched a documentary on the F14. I was surprised to learn that the F14 was capable of firing six phoenix missiles on six targets simultaneously. Did you ever experience that as the RIO. Would love to see a video on the full weapons capability of the F14. I am not a pilot, just an enthusiast. Respectfully Always Faithful, Always Forward
Aaron Beaulieu
Never carried six at once. Fired three in exercises. Always a rush.
Hey Ward, thank you! Been a subscriber for a long time. Would love a vid or two on the Fighter Fling classics with your background and intel
content like this is why Ward is the MAN!
I was on the Stennis for the last west coast cruise for the F-14. As an I-level AT, I was glad to see them go. It was pain just to get the gear to my shop.
Hello to Paul Conigliaro, and for the great association we had in Grumman on multiple most-interesting flight test projects through our connection with Paul as Flight Test engineer and myself as Instrumentation engineer in Grumman's Flight Test Department.
I assume this is is Jim Ryan - hi! Long time since the F-14 1X days .... hope you are doing well!
@@PaulConigliaro-z5c Yes, this is Jim Ryan. I am still doing quite well, all things considered, as I approach my 85th birthday! I shared this great interview of you with John Zubko and others. All the best to you.
fantastic video for my Tomcat and Blackbird research 👍🏻
Great analysis and cool guests on the channel! Thank you! 👍
In DCS, I successfully managed with a flat spin on an F-14A & B using my own method by separate thrust control (since I did not yet have dual throttle handles, I simply had turned off the corresponding engine, that had an even greater effect for stopping rotation than moving it to the idle position). The main thing was not to confuse the engine, but this was also a solvable problem! Altitude loss was about 15-20,000 feet. 😎
Superior content sir! You guys are all at such a high level.
Hope to see you in Philly next year Mooch!! ⚓
Army-Navy game in Baltimore next year. I'll be there.
@@WardCarroll it's sacrilegious. The game should be in Philly.
@@WardCarroll Philly is hosting the 250th Anniversary of the US Navy and Marine Corps. There are supposed to be ships in Philly and Navy, Marine and Coast Guard Aircraft. They word is they are trying to get the Blues onboard as well.
I really enjoy watching the content here. It was sad losing Kara Hultgreen. I respect her and all Naval Aviators. It takes Great Talent and Courage to land an aircraft on a pitching rolling flight deck during day or night! Rotary or Fixed Wing, Naval Aviators ARE The Best!👍👍🇺🇸
And now she's an internet meme
I am not at all surprised that Scott has no trouble remembering the trim working in reverse the day before the first flight. Right stuff indeed, I would still be running.
Three of the best from the Navy, which is already the best of the best
Ward, your vids keep getting better and better. Your interviewing skills have improved by leaps and bounds. One small example is acting as translator and stopping your guests to help the audience catch up . Great job integrating visuals in places too. It's an extra step that goes a long way. Congrats to you and your team for a great year. Looking forward to 25. 🫡Carry on.
Point Mugu wasn't just OT, it was DT, specifically all weapons and software integration. All new aircraft Operational Flight Program (OFP) software was developed and tested at Mugu. Pax river did FQ&P, stores-sep etc (basic aircraft stuff). Pax river shut down F-14 stuff around 2001-2002, Point Mugu kept going until 2004ish.
I can concur with the Pax shut down of Tomcat ops ~ 2000. 1998 Dex Poindexter had come to VF-32 with terrific stories of flying the DFCS jets, and before he detached for NASA, he did me a great favor by flying us into Pax in a Gypsy jet to 'rush' TPS after I had again applied a second or third time. Sadly, as a June 2001 graduate (TPS Class 119), both jets had already been transferred over to VX-9. Sadly, I got no DFCS time, nor any further F-14 time in my logbook.
This was a really interesting discussion of the flight control system.
FaFabtastic, greatly appreciate you recording this for all to see.