If Man City get away with this and walk away with anything less than RELEGATION and I mean ALL THE WAY TO THE BOTTOM OF THE FOOTBALL PYRAMID, then it’s a complete miscarriage of justice. The Premier League need to make an example of them, similar to what we saw with Juventus in Italy, and with Rangers in Scotland, even though they were punished and relegated for completely different reasons. If Man City actually get away with something minimal such as a fine, it will be the end of fair competition in football, because a fine is not going to be enough of a deterrent for anyone as wealthy as Man City‘s owners, neither will a single season point deduction either. If Man City are allowed to get away with those 115 charges, it will then send a message to the other clubs with ridiculous wealth, such as Newcastle, that you can just do whatever you want and get away with it, and if you do end up getting caught, you’ll just have to pay a fine, which isn’t really a punishment, especially when you have the money that clubs like Newcastle and Man City have, which are basically countries not football clubs. I also think they should be RIGHTFULLY stripped of their trophies, and we should see the following teams walk away with trophies they deserve: Premier League: 2011-2012 = Man United. 2012-2013 = n/a 2013-2014 = Liverpool 2014-2015 = n/a 2015-2016 = n/a 2016-2017 = n/a 2017-2018 = Man United 2018-2019 = Liverpool 2019-2020 = n/a 2020-2021 = Man United 2021-2022 = Liverpool 2022-2023 = Arsenal Man United x3 Liverpool x3 Arsenal x1 FA Cup: 2011-2012 = n/a 2012-2013 = n/a 2013-2014 = n/a 2014-2015 = n/a 2015-2016 = n/a 2016-2017 = n/a 2017-2018 = n/a 2018-2019 = Watford 2019-2020 = n/a 2020-2021 = n/a 2021-2022 = n/a 2022-2023 = Man United Man United x1 Watford x1 League Cup: 2011-2012 = n/a 2012-2013 = n/a 2013-2014 = Sunderland 2014-2015 = n/a 2015-2016 = Liverpool 2016-2017 = n/a 2017-2018 = Arsenal 2018-2019 = Chelsea 2019-2020 = Aston Villa 2020-2021 = Tottenham 2021-2022 = n/a 2022-2023 = n/a Sunderland x1 Liverpool x1 Arsenal x1 Chelsea x1 Aston Villa x1 Tottenham x1
If Man City get away with this and walk away with anything less than RELEGATION and I mean ALL THE WAY TO THE BOTTOM OF THE FOOTBALL PYRAMID, then it’s a complete miscarriage of justice. The Premier League need to make an example of them, similar to what we saw with Juventus in Italy, and with Rangers in Scotland, even though they were punished and relegated for completely different reasons. If Man City actually get away with something minimal such as a fine, it will be the end of fair competition in football, because a fine is not going to be enough of a deterrent for anyone as wealthy as Man City‘s owners, neither will a single season point deduction either. If Man City are allowed to get away with those 115 charges, it will then send a message to the other clubs with ridiculous wealth, such as Newcastle, that you can just do whatever you want and get away with it, and if you do end up getting caught, you’ll just have to pay a fine, which isn’t really a punishment, especially when you have the money that clubs like Newcastle and Man City have, which are basically countries not football clubs. I also think they should be RIGHTFULLY stripped of their trophies, and we should see the following teams walk away with trophies they deserve: Premier League: 2011-2012 = Man United. 2012-2013 = n/a 2013-2014 = Liverpool 2014-2015 = n/a 2015-2016 = n/a 2016-2017 = n/a 2017-2018 = Man United 2018-2019 = Liverpool 2019-2020 = n/a 2020-2021 = Man United 2021-2022 = Liverpool 2022-2023 = Arsenal Man United x3 Liverpool x3 Arsenal x1 FA Cup: 2011-2012 = n/a 2012-2013 = n/a 2013-2014 = n/a 2014-2015 = n/a 2015-2016 = n/a 2016-2017 = n/a 2017-2018 = n/a 2018-2019 = Watford 2019-2020 = n/a 2020-2021 = n/a 2021-2022 = n/a 2022-2023 = Man United Man United x1 Watford x1 League Cup: 2011-2012 = n/a 2012-2013 = n/a 2013-2014 = Sunderland 2014-2015 = n/a 2015-2016 = Liverpool 2016-2017 = n/a 2017-2018 = Arsenal 2018-2019 = Chelsea 2019-2020 = Aston Villa 2020-2021 = Tottenham 2021-2022 = n/a 2022-2023 = n/a Sunderland x1 Liverpool x1 Arsenal x1 Chelsea x1 Aston Villa x1 Tottenham x1
City have known one day they’ll get caught and are willing to chance it in court, but if they walk free it will be a very sad day for football with irreparable damage
If that happens , then the real trouble for the FA starts , there will be multiple lawsuits from clubs who were penalised for infringements far less severe than City's
@@manupasta it was damaged a long time before city arrived to throw a spanner in their big scam what puzzles me is how they've conned 15 up and coming teams to give up their rights to challenge for footballing honour by restricting theirselves from spending their own money to challenge and probably usurp the red cartel they must be laughing at them
@@RajuAhmed-sy7ysrescinding trophies would open up a whole can of worms. But when found guilty, they need to be relegated. Ste put it there that once found guilty, all their achievements will be tainted and won't be acknowledged.
Spot on Wayne , it will give Newcastle the green light to pump billions into the club and City fans don’t even realise that their owners are wealthier than City’s . And then you will have have other states looking to buy PL teams and the league will as you say all credibility and people will stop watching when you know it’s a league of financial doping .
The suggested punishments are wrong the only way to hit city is not points deductions or transfer bans & fines they should make the owners sell up and ban them from ever owning a football club again
"What can the PL do?" I've said it before, but whatever happens to the titles and points deductions etc is far less important than removing the current ownership. They, seemingly, have systematically broken the rules and delayed and obfuscated to ridiculous levels. They cannot be allowed to continue owning a PL club.
I’m a Leicester fan. We swerved a points deduction by finding a loophole that a 16 year old could find. The Premier League was criticised by the tribunal for having such poor processes. I’d be more confident Man City being held to account if it wasn’t for the inept Premier League prosecuting them.
This is absolutely what will happen, the rules were rushed into place and there will be loopholes everywhere in them - imagine what you could get away with if you have a huge legal team, unlimited funding, and all the time you need to find them. Oh, wait...
Difference is the premier league have been building the city case for years whereas they fast tracked the Leicester case as they did with Everton and Forrest
@@robertryan630 the premier league was never building a case , they had in fact buried it in collusion with the sheikhs, it was only because the Portugese journalist published some material and der Spiegel took it up that the premier league was forced to begin investigations , otherwise how can you explain that City have neither been published or absolved of infringements for 2009 , 15 years ago , incredible the faith you have in these corrupt administrators even after seeing what platini did in the eufa
Stripped of every trophy and relegation into the championship a 60pt deduction and five year transfer ban .and stop all 😮 duel club ownership. Funny city and barca are under investigation hmmm pep and his team
-Relegate them 2 tiers. -100 total points deduction, which carries over each season. -Vacate all their titles in the past 10 years. -Economic compensation for every team they ever played against. -Sanctions for players involved in illegal payments.
They are absolutely gonna get away with it. All they will get is a slap on the wrist. Because all the media are so madly in love with Pep, his team and they way the play football. They gush over City like their a young 14 yr old school boy gushing over a supermodel who is in her mid to late 20s. Its sickening how they do! 🤮
I agree with banning state ownership but that's not going to help us now with who's already there as they can't kick out the City owners no matter how guilty they are and they can't kick out the Newcastle owners either. I wish they did have that power as what the Glazer's did to buy us is now illegal and I'd just love the FA to retroactivly kick them out for it.
Bang on! But I would also like to see a 3-5 year ban from football and to return in league 1 so they must EARN their place back in the premiership after cheating.
@@theletsplayer4921 Keep telling yourself that. These state owned clubs create companys as a front to lessen the political imapact. We know the true owners and so should you.
2.5 minimum, maybe a 100 point deduction as well. Oh and why not, forced to keep their books open to the PL and if they dont like it they can sell the club. They can keep the titles imo becasue everyone will know in the history books that they cheated, so wont be counted as a real victory.
@@feralpleasures4767 with respect what's a transfer ban and 100 point deduction gonna do? With the players they already have they will win the Championship and be back at the top within 2 seasons. Whatever the sanctions are it has to punish them in a way that will seriously affect them, for example relegation with no promotion for a set number of years.
@@onose10000 it doesn't immediately effect them. They'll still have an elite squad of players who will keep them going for at least the next 4-5 years. Demotion without opportunity for promotion for 10 years will hurt them more. Anything where they remain in the premier league will mean the current squad stays together. 10 years in the championship will see all the current players want to leave and impact them immediately.
What annoys me is the media and the Neville’s alike say despite the alleged misdemeanours this is a great city team and deserve there trophies, but totally miss the point as in without breaking the rules if proven guilty then this wouldn’t have been the city team if they hadn’t and who knows what trophies if any they would of won. The rule breaking allowed them to build to the team we see now simple as. That first rule break would have been the catalyst no matter how small to where they are today. For me if they found guilty to any wrongdoing then the years 2008 to now are all tainted no matter what and the media should go all out on them.
İf they get away with breaking the rules then the effect is simple, EVERYONE WİLL BREAK THE RULES, Even if they are deducted 25 points and fined half a billion it will still be worth it given what they gained
Only way we ensure it never happens again 1). 30 points deducted from each season since 2008 2). Stripped of all trophies won since 2008 3). £300m fine and invested in grassroots and the football league 4). 3 year transfer ban 5). 35 points deduction for the next 3 years 6). Relegated to The Championship
The Premier League is a separate body to the FA. They can apply a large enough points deduction to ensure City are relegated, but they would need the FA's agreement to enforce an ongoing points deduction. And even if they expel City from the PL, it may require a change in the relationship between the PL and the FA to keep City out of the Prem for a few seasons.
Your only dreaming if you think a 30 point deduction for 15 seasons is gonna happen haha 450 points no chance and the case isn't going back as far as 2008
Jack Walker wasn't the only fella spending big on Blackburn, Sir Jim Hall was funding Newcastle Utd, to the tone of Millions and a brand new Stadium, built with British Steel from his huge British Steel Company? Walker funding Blackburn, and it was never that way with Man Utd or Liverpool, who spent their own earnings, and a huge % of those earnings too
Always better to know the facts first, before proving you do not know anything about something... A little like Howson... he has obviously read little to nothing about it from good sources! He obviously has not read the publicly available CAS documents... a start point for anyone wanting to talk on the charges... or in his case waffle about it! With regards Savinho... just to help you! He was signed by Troyes and loaned to Girona... So it was never Savinho from Girona as you say... Always best to fact check, a little like Howson needs to do... before opening his mouth!
Rangers dropped at least 4 leagues below. Citeh should be kicked out of the league down to the Conference, at the very least. Paying Mancini extra off the books is surely liable for tax evasion.
What makes me laugh as a man United fan is that FFP/PSR rules were abolished, we’d benefit. We make a lot of money, the last few windows our spending has been restricted by these rules. It makes me laugh when clubs like Everton think they’d be better off if clubs like Manchester United can do what they want
The fa have no choice in booting them out the league to the Conference League as it will end up in court with all the teams relegated who have lost millions
now the question is how many in the FA were also involved or turned a blind eye willingly, lets not forget the evidence came from a 3rd party, FA were pretty fine carrying on
1) Deduct points from each season to (enough to take them to second) 2) Fine them and give the money to teams that were relegated in those seasons 3) Transfer Ban for 2 seasons. All of the above will tarnish the legacy they built, repay other clubs who may have lost out and punish them for the doping that put them so far ahead.
Imagine you're the City owners, the shiekhs. They run their country... They make the rules, they break the rules, they can do literally whatever they want. These are people who are not used to being told no, being forced to comply with the bureaucracy of a British institution. Imagine how much they must be losing their melon over an organisation that's trying to hold them accountable and give them concequences for their actions, for what is probably the first time in their life, and there's nothing much they can do to snake their way out of it. Oh to be a fly on the wall in their meetings....
dont think they are losing their melons, they are also applying pressure on the UK govt and hire the most expensive lawyers around. people who would twist and turn to find loopholes in an iron wall. this case could be dragged for a decade more with no clear resolution
If City win the whole football landscape will change. If you want an NFL style European or World League with only a few teams owned by billionaires and run for billionaires pray for a City victory. 200 points and a fine. They get relegated, come back and get relegated again.
As someone who lived in America for a long time I saw what uneven finances did to baseball, where 20 teams were out of it from day one because of the financial power of the remaining clubs. Granted no fair play rules, but markets made champions. Meanwhile the NFL had revenue sharing and it made for the most parity of any of the sports I watched there. We will never see revenue sharing in the EPL or a salary cap (hey, that's impossible in a global sport), but the rules that allow for such inequality ruin your sport. And when even the meager rules you have a team just ignores...there aren't sanctions enough, but stripped titles, relegation one level and heavy fines to payback relegated clubs is at least a start.
Nothing will happen. City will throw 30 of their best lawyers vs 5 of the FA at the court of arbitration. In the end it will get dragged on, there will be a settlement and a slap fine.
@theletsplayer4921 it's not my system, it's the one they signed up for. And I'd you cheat and then get caught and punished, I don't think that's beating anything.
Guilty or not - as a footballer myself I say that the City players won trophies for the club through blood , sweat , tears & passion . Because they love the game they play & how it's played . Not because of those pieces of paper you call money . I'm a United fan but it's been a pleasure watching them achieve what they have . What goes on with finances in football shouldn't bother any of the fans . But I also won't mind if they fall because that's one less club to compete against for us 😂
In my opinion, going by the lack of bottle the PL has, they will find a way of referring this and postponing their decisions and verdict..THEY WILL KICK IT DOWN THE ROAD and hope someone else will sort it out..maybe the courts
there was talk of around 100 point deduction on the Paddock, and the sanctions could only be on the premier league, i say expulsion from the premier league for 4 seasons, let them rot in the championship with no progression to the premier league, this in turn will deny them access to european football. its time to make an example of teams who break the rules
Saw the other day when you was on paddock someone said just lance Armstrong it. That does seem right but in cycling they were all at it. Here the runners up havent done anything wrong
Ste, you’re looking really well, nice work! I am 103lbs down as of this morning and being able to go hiking without tremendous pain is pretty great. Keep up the good work!
No real soccer fan respects the titles Man City has won. Everyone knows it's all driven by foul money. There is no Respect for the Team and what they acived, none. With such a strong financial advantage, it’s easy to speculate that the club might be pushing the boundaries of what money can achieve, in a negative way, just watch the CL macht yday vs Inter, it´s like dead, no athmosphere it´s just a plastic club with no emotions. OFC any ManCity Fan(antic) who is only there for winning , and this is his live and he identifeis with winning, you cant reason with him, he wont lose like he does in his live each day ^.^
Great opinion piece to be honest , I think they’ll hit them with a 30-40 point deduction which would relegate most teams but not city , then they can sit on the fence and watch both sides claim a victory, I believe they should be relegated,I also think they’re still at it ,
Wow that’s a heck of a summary Ste. There’s a lot to think about after what you have said. I’d like to add some comments but in reality I will think about this for a while. Thanks mate but it is scary stuff regarding our game
are you talking about when Qpr fans were cheering City scoring against there own team . And QPR just stood around to let them score ... Yea not corrupt at all
@@deltadaz makes me laugh the fact that you can't except that city are a great side always trying to devalue their achievements because your team is an inadequet shallow pile of crap
@@paulbrickland9625 I don't get your point. Arabs invested huge to build team at mc. Their emails show that they made payments from third-parties to decrease expenses. If they didn't do that, would they be able to buy those players?
Juve got relegated because they influenced refree decisions, and that is directly related to on-field performances and results. I don't think City will be relegated. The punishment they get (I hope so), will not directly affect their on-field status. It will be a fine, transfer ban or some financial limitations. Stripping off titles is also not the solution, because they have already lived those moments uk. If the teams which have finished 2nd, like us, Pool, Arsenal, our fans feel that if their title is stripped off, then we would be declared champions, but how fair that would be for teams finishing 5th, who missed out on UCL!? So, logically that isn't possible. A monetary fine for them or any big club is like neglecting a week's revenue. Even if they impose a transfer ban, they already have assembled a squad which needs no improvement (see their activity this season). Their multi-club ownership model needs to be investigated. It seems like a money laundering technique, with the less powerful clubs in the model acting as those shell companies. Chelsea are doing this, after exploiting the amortization by giving 7-8 yr contracts.
If City win, footballs dead. It hasn’t been a real sport for a long time anyway but if a country can buy a club and cheat then it’s over as a competition.
for the PL to gain any credibility here it would have to be 1} massive fine to the tune to cover all the repercussions of any lawsuits from relegated teams and loss of income, 2} the current owners would be barred from owning the club like chelsea and 3} another state cannot buy the club. 4} relegation to the national league. 5} transfer embargo for the same amount of years as the financial doping was done. titles won would have to be stripped like you say the tour de france was though.
I agree with everything you said. The future of football is at stake regardless of the outcome. For the reasons you give, if found not guilty. It'll be a massive moment in European football. But if they ARE found guilty, regardless of the punishment, there is the potential for further cases from clubs who have lost income due to City's "cheating". Teams could even sue EPL for not sanctioning city sooner and allowing it to happen over a decade (which has enabled the city brand to grow...maybe...we think lol). It's billionaires investing their money into these clubs now, they won't accept the verdict if they don't get reparations so to speak 😂 That's the concern I've had all along, that this isn't just about Manchester City, it's about English football. What has happened to Italy in the last 20 years acts as the perfect example.
It’s a tough call on punishment, but there has to be some equivalency of points scaled to other clubs that have breached rules, Then you have to punish the obstruction on a scale to prevent the thought of it from occurring again. Then you have to address the overspend and the deception. You nailed it Ste, it’s a monumental decision, and the gravity to which other clubs were affected by the actions are also quite serious, how do they sort that.
Might be worth remembering that the gulf region is the UK’s 4th largest trading partner at £61 billion a year, with Gulf investments in the UK in recent years estimated at £140 billion. London is often referred to as the ‘eighth emirate’. Are we sure football will be allowed to wreck that sort of relationship? (the English Premier League turnover is a tiddling £6.1 billion in comparison)
I've heard people talking about 'team rosters' this season. Extra time is being dragged out to 15 minutes & VAR regularly takes 1 minute to make an obvious decision. We get crap stats for everything. Maybe I smoke too much but with the world cup coming in USA, I'm convinced the prem is being manipulated to make it more appealing to the main sports TV networks over there. Yanks love a 30 second advert. VAR gives them that. All yank sport goes off in the last 2 minutes of each half/period & how many games have we now seen decided in the 9th minute of extra time. Yank terms like roster rather than squad or line up & stats for welt like how many players have one massive toe ffs.
Steve, outstanding video!!! Yes, the future of not just English but European football is before us. Because we know that City isn't just a Premier club, but a global one with teams all over and they will exploit this even more in the future if this is allowed. As to penalties. First, you strip them of any titles (and I'd expect all UK tourneys to do the same...CL...who knows what they'll do. But do not give title to 2nd place. Let it just sit vacated as a reminder of the blight on English football this type of cheating has created. 2) yes fines, which I hadn't thought of before as useful, but the fines should be paid to the 18th place squad that was relegated each year, as an admission that at least someone else got really hurt by their cheating. 3) Relegation for 25-26 season, but just to Championship. It would be fair to lower leagues since their financial power will remain. English Football by mid 2000s had become a league without parity at the top, and in order to make it meaningful, you need to correct finances so more Leicesters win, not just one of 3 clubs each year. I find the Bundislegue so uninteresting for that reason. Those are my thoughts.
Punishment: short term, lose titles. Long term, look at how much spend they lied about and for how long. If they hid half their spend for a decade, halve their PSR spend for the next decade. They can’t be allowed to just carry on with the advantage they built up.
Painful or not there must be a heavy handed penalty. There should be a 50 point a year penalty for same length of time they are found to have cheated. If they cheated for 8 years they should be penalized for the next 8.
Relegation to the 4th tier, with a 10 point deduction for every season they are charged for (so each season they play they start with -10 points) and a fine which doubles the amount they overspent, which is to be given it to all the teams which were relegated during this time
The 115 is very serious its tainted the prem as without city cooking the books they would never of rose up as quick as they did an prem titles would of been won by other clubs. Look at newcastle all the money in the world but they have to follow the rules so their hands are tied when spending money.
As you said point deductions of previous seasons leave the PL to blowback from relegated teams. It needs to be a punishment moving forward. Multi year transfer ban, point deductions. I feel it has to be a combination of those two. Anything historical causes problems from other teams, fines won’t work. Dropping them down a league or two could be something. Especially if they have to be dropped whilst they challenge it. If they can stay in the PL whilst that happens it’s not worth it as it will just drag out for years.
The better model is simply to allow owners to fund the losses. That protects against the non sustainability of occurring losses whilst also allowing new owners to come in and fun proof of a smaller club
Massive fine £200m, 300 point deduction staggered over 5 PL seasons, 100, 80, 60, 40 and 20. Which will keep them out of the title race for at least 6 years. But the most appropriate punishment would be forcing a change of ownership.
FFP is to safeguard against what happened to clubs like Portsmouth, who had new owner after new owner plough money in as bonds, and when those owners jumped ship the club was left with debts that they couldn't service. If City's owners walked away, unlikely I know but Matthew Harding and Leicesters owners had unfortunate helicopter accidents. If the replacement owner didn't like football and refused to bankroll City, they would be in massive financial trouble because all their big sponsorship deals are over inflated state sponsorship deals that don't represent actual market value
We don't know what the outcome will be but if found guilty there has to be some kind of independent regulator so transparency is seen so all clubs can be spot checked at any given time so there is compliance from all. Punishment? Hard to say but I would spread the punishment over 5 years, points deduction every year for 5 seasons and 5 year ban from all European competitions but it's dependent on what charges they make stick
Ste, Melbourne storm in the Australian nrl got found guilty of something similar. Years of hiding player payments. They got their titles stripped and a record fine but never really slipped out of winning contention ever since then. If found guilty city really need their license or something removed so the owners are forced to sell.
as a utd fan, trophies stay to keep the record books straight. BUT for every rule they are proven to have broken they should get 3 point deduction. At the end of the season ALL leagues are laid out and they drop however many points the total charges end up at. EXAMPLE: If they get 100 guilty charges, that's 300 points owed. If they win the league on 90 point, that means they drop to championship - still owing 210 point, which was won by a team with 96 points - meaning they drop to league 1, still owing 114 points (210 - 96 point accrued by the championship winner), and so on until they owe no more points and that is where they finish the 24/25 season - if that is league 2, fine; if that is Cheshire north prem, so be it.
They should receive a ban from participating in football for a few years. It's the only way you can prevent them from thinking they got away with it. Strip them from titles and fine them for en estimate of what they made of their success. Anything like a demotion would just be a temporary setback for them.
Not something I want, but Something I believe will happen. They will not be stripped off titles, let alone titles given to other teams. It starts the chain reaction of lawsuits. They will be relegated on negative points and maybe have either a transfer ban for 3 years or a consecutive 3 year points deduction that will slow down their coming back. And a meaningful fine to make them sell players. Something around a £100m They will still probably go straight back up, but will be deprived of Europe for a number of years
Can't take the trophies off them, but they can issue a 30 point deduction for the next 10 seasons (or however long they have cheated for) to stop them from having a chance to win
They should be banned from all football competition for 5 years and stripped of all the trophies they won. Alternatively they should get relegated to division 2 and have to sell the club and have a lifetime ban from owning any English ever again
3 points for each breach would be fair with the points deductions to be over the span of the breaches 25-30 points for the next decade would a far bigger punishment than City being relegated and them coming straight back up in a season and be able to be back to business as usual in 12 months.
If City get off I'd back a superleague. Let everyone financially dope up to the eye balls and give us the best possible product. But I hope to god they don't and common sense prevails.
I hate the argument that the financial rules were brought in to protect the traditional big clubs as it totally ignores history. It was happening before Abramovich but after him we saw an influx of rich owners across the globe who splashed the cash but mainly on players who either didnt realise how much turning the clubs into superclubs cost or because they lacked any emotional connection got bored so just pissed off leaving clubs without the financial ability to cover this financial burder which put these clubs on the edge. This is what its there to protect which is why many areas of investment have no limits as this is investment in long term areas that show a long term commitment and even if the piss off leave the club with assets that help then financially rather than something like an inflated wage bill that weighs them down
They’re going to get off with a slap on the wrist. We all know how weak the English FA are. And we all know how rich and powerful City’s owners are. They’re going to lawyer the shit out of this case. This will drag on and on until they’re let off with a measly fine and points deduction. They will keep all their trophies and they will stay up in the league.
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If Man City get away with this and walk away with anything less than RELEGATION and I mean ALL THE WAY TO THE BOTTOM OF THE FOOTBALL PYRAMID, then it’s a complete miscarriage of justice.
The Premier League need to make an example of them, similar to what we saw with Juventus in Italy, and with Rangers in Scotland, even though they were punished and relegated for completely different reasons.
If Man City actually get away with something minimal such as a fine, it will be the end of fair competition in football, because a fine is not going to be enough of a deterrent for anyone as wealthy as Man City‘s owners, neither will a single season point deduction either.
If Man City are allowed to get away with those 115 charges, it will then send a message to the other clubs with ridiculous wealth, such as Newcastle, that you can just do whatever you want and get away with it, and if you do end up getting caught, you’ll just have to pay a fine, which isn’t really a punishment, especially when you have the money that clubs like Newcastle and Man City have, which are basically countries not football clubs.
I also think they should be RIGHTFULLY stripped of their trophies, and we should see the following teams walk away with trophies they deserve:
Premier League:
2011-2012 = Man United.
2012-2013 = n/a
2013-2014 = Liverpool
2014-2015 = n/a
2015-2016 = n/a
2016-2017 = n/a
2017-2018 = Man United
2018-2019 = Liverpool
2019-2020 = n/a
2020-2021 = Man United
2021-2022 = Liverpool
2022-2023 = Arsenal
Man United x3
Liverpool x3
Arsenal x1
FA Cup:
2011-2012 = n/a
2012-2013 = n/a
2013-2014 = n/a
2014-2015 = n/a
2015-2016 = n/a
2016-2017 = n/a
2017-2018 = n/a
2018-2019 = Watford
2019-2020 = n/a
2020-2021 = n/a
2021-2022 = n/a
2022-2023 = Man United
Man United x1
Watford x1
League Cup:
2011-2012 = n/a
2012-2013 = n/a
2013-2014 = Sunderland
2014-2015 = n/a
2015-2016 = Liverpool
2016-2017 = n/a
2017-2018 = Arsenal
2018-2019 = Chelsea
2019-2020 = Aston Villa
2020-2021 = Tottenham
2021-2022 = n/a
2022-2023 = n/a
Sunderland x1
Liverpool x1
Arsenal x1
Chelsea x1
Aston Villa x1
Tottenham x1
If Man City get away with this and walk away with anything less than RELEGATION and I mean ALL THE WAY TO THE BOTTOM OF THE FOOTBALL PYRAMID, then it’s a complete miscarriage of justice.
The Premier League need to make an example of them, similar to what we saw with Juventus in Italy, and with Rangers in Scotland, even though they were punished and relegated for completely different reasons.
If Man City actually get away with something minimal such as a fine, it will be the end of fair competition in football, because a fine is not going to be enough of a deterrent for anyone as wealthy as Man City‘s owners, neither will a single season point deduction either.
If Man City are allowed to get away with those 115 charges, it will then send a message to the other clubs with ridiculous wealth, such as Newcastle, that you can just do whatever you want and get away with it, and if you do end up getting caught, you’ll just have to pay a fine, which isn’t really a punishment, especially when you have the money that clubs like Newcastle and Man City have, which are basically countries not football clubs.
I also think they should be RIGHTFULLY stripped of their trophies, and we should see the following teams walk away with trophies they deserve:
Premier League:
2011-2012 = Man United.
2012-2013 = n/a
2013-2014 = Liverpool
2014-2015 = n/a
2015-2016 = n/a
2016-2017 = n/a
2017-2018 = Man United
2018-2019 = Liverpool
2019-2020 = n/a
2020-2021 = Man United
2021-2022 = Liverpool
2022-2023 = Arsenal
Man United x3
Liverpool x3
Arsenal x1
FA Cup:
2011-2012 = n/a
2012-2013 = n/a
2013-2014 = n/a
2014-2015 = n/a
2015-2016 = n/a
2016-2017 = n/a
2017-2018 = n/a
2018-2019 = Watford
2019-2020 = n/a
2020-2021 = n/a
2021-2022 = n/a
2022-2023 = Man United
Man United x1
Watford x1
League Cup:
2011-2012 = n/a
2012-2013 = n/a
2013-2014 = Sunderland
2014-2015 = n/a
2015-2016 = Liverpool
2016-2017 = n/a
2017-2018 = Arsenal
2018-2019 = Chelsea
2019-2020 = Aston Villa
2020-2021 = Tottenham
2021-2022 = n/a
2022-2023 = n/a
Sunderland x1
Liverpool x1
Arsenal x1
Chelsea x1
Aston Villa x1
Tottenham x1
Very true
You Complete Lump
We'll get a verdict in 2029 with Everton being deducted 25 points as punishment
115 likes, let's keep it this way 😂😂😂
Manchester is red City sre blue, without Sheikh Mansoor you would be in league TWO. Most factual poem ever written.
That needs to be a song at OT.
Just a little tweak to- “Manchester is red, city is blue.”
😂💯👏
Without Sheike Mansoor we'd say, who are you?
That's hilaroius, we need that song sang at the matchs!!!
City have known one day they’ll get caught and are willing to chance it in court, but if they walk free it will be a very sad day for football with irreparable damage
they also know they have the political backing to put pressure on the UK govt since the state owns the club. makes it more difficult
If that happens , then the real trouble for the FA starts , there will be multiple lawsuits from clubs who were penalised for infringements far less severe than City's
@@manupasta it was damaged a long time before city arrived to throw a spanner in their big scam what puzzles me is how they've conned 15 up and coming teams to give up their rights to challenge for footballing honour by restricting theirselves from spending their own money to challenge and probably usurp the red cartel they must be laughing at them
They need to be relegated and banned from the premier league for a set number of years. One relegation would see them back up within a season.
And have them rescinded of the domestic trophies they won fraudulently.
@@RajuAhmed-sy7ysrescinding trophies would open up a whole can of worms. But when found guilty, they need to be relegated. Ste put it there that once found guilty, all their achievements will be tainted and won't be acknowledged.
No proof yet muppets I can't wait for city win then city will have party then see you all at this party
If city win, the premier League is finished.
@@scottfarrell1906 good then we will get a level playing field
If they win the gloves are off Newcastle will say fuck it straight away the premier league loses all credibility
Spot on Wayne , it will give Newcastle the green light to pump billions into the club and City fans don’t even realise that their owners are wealthier than City’s . And then you will have have other states looking to buy PL teams and the league will as you say all credibility and people will stop watching when you know it’s a league of financial doping .
The suggested punishments are wrong the only way to hit city is not points deductions or transfer bans & fines they should make the owners sell up and ban them from ever owning a football club again
Unfit
@@stuatherton1459 the pl as an inkling of the shit storm that's coming when city are cleared that's why their arseholes are pukkered up
"What can the PL do?" I've said it before, but whatever happens to the titles and points deductions etc is far less important than removing the current ownership. They, seemingly, have systematically broken the rules and delayed and obfuscated to ridiculous levels. They cannot be allowed to continue owning a PL club.
Good point mate, a decade of cheating and corruption HAS to see you failing the owners test
Agreed, they must be forced to sell. Just like Roman Abramovic was
@@beatzguy Yeah it's clearly possible if the will is there from the PL.
I’m a Leicester fan. We swerved a points deduction by finding a loophole that a 16 year old could find. The Premier League was criticised by the tribunal for having such poor processes. I’d be more confident Man City being held to account if it wasn’t for the inept Premier League prosecuting them.
This is absolutely what will happen, the rules were rushed into place and there will be loopholes everywhere in them - imagine what you could get away with if you have a huge legal team, unlimited funding, and all the time you need to find them. Oh, wait...
The premier league are prosecuting, but it's an independent body conducting the prosecution.
May be Leicester being let off is ground being prepared for letting city off , but 150 charges are too much for even the corrupt sheikhs to buy off
Difference is the premier league have been building the city case for years whereas they fast tracked the Leicester case as they did with Everton and Forrest
@@robertryan630 the premier league was never building a case , they had in fact buried it in collusion with the sheikhs, it was only because the Portugese journalist published some material and der Spiegel took it up that the premier league was forced to begin investigations , otherwise how can you explain that City have neither been published or absolved of infringements for 2009 , 15 years ago , incredible the faith you have in these corrupt administrators even after seeing what platini did in the eufa
Why don’t the premier league just kick them out for not following the rules Man City and everyone else signed upto in the first place
apparently they have very good lawyers and accountants
Qatar money sacks and shilling
Because the breaches have to be proven
It's not like City are open about what they're books ACTUALLY look like
Stripped of every trophy and relegation into the championship a 60pt deduction and five year transfer ban .and stop all 😮 duel club ownership. Funny city and barca are under investigation hmmm pep and his team
P diddy and Manchester city are brothers 😂
M-Ciddy 😂
Getting their freakouts!
-Relegate them 2 tiers.
-100 total points deduction, which carries over each season.
-Vacate all their titles in the past 10 years.
-Economic compensation for every team they ever played against.
-Sanctions for players involved in illegal payments.
@@ifrm16or just force their owners to sell and send them to the championship
They are nothing without their owners
😅😅😅😂😂 good one
Classic white collar crime. Million pound fraud and 10k fine. And they still have the lamborghini parked outside their council house in Clayton
They are absolutely gonna get away with it. All they will get is a slap on the wrist. Because all the media are so madly in love with Pep, his team and they way the play football. They gush over City like their a young 14 yr old school boy gushing over a supermodel who is in her mid to late 20s. Its sickening how they do! 🤮
The media are afraid being sued by even mentioning the 115 charges or the slavery and human rights issues.
1. Punish them now, relegation and 2. Ban nation state ownership in the English FA. To avoid future fraud. And also open them up to lawsuits.
I agree with banning state ownership but that's not going to help us now with who's already there as they can't kick out the City owners no matter how guilty they are and they can't kick out the Newcastle owners either.
I wish they did have that power as what the Glazer's did to buy us is now illegal and I'd just love the FA to retroactivly kick them out for it.
Bang on! But I would also like to see a 3-5 year ban from football and to return in league 1 so they must EARN their place back in the premiership after cheating.
@@bazman05The FA could do this but they would have to give clubs about 3 years to make the changes.
City is owned by the cfg a company
@@theletsplayer4921 Keep telling yourself that. These state owned clubs create companys as a front to lessen the political imapact. We know the true owners and so should you.
You forgot one thing Ste. UAE government getting involved directly over here. If that's allowed to happen, let's just kiss this whole league goodbye
Starmer supports Arsenal. 😉
@@rosssloman1309 let's hope he's more effective than arsenal football club
League is already a farmers league.
Relegate them, if possible to at least league two, plus a hefty fine say 500 million which can only be used for grass roots football in the UK.
Disgraceful club and set of owners
10 years of cooking the books = 10 years of transfer ban
they need to be stripped of the titles
2.5 minimum, maybe a 100 point deduction as well. Oh and why not, forced to keep their books open to the PL and if they dont like it they can sell the club. They can keep the titles imo becasue everyone will know in the history books that they cheated, so wont be counted as a real victory.
@@feralpleasures4767 with respect what's a transfer ban and 100 point deduction gonna do? With the players they already have they will win the Championship and be back at the top within 2 seasons.
Whatever the sanctions are it has to punish them in a way that will seriously affect them, for example relegation with no promotion for a set number of years.
@@MKYCmusic you underestimate what a 10 YEAR ban would do to a team. That's a whole generation.
@@onose10000 it doesn't immediately effect them. They'll still have an elite squad of players who will keep them going for at least the next 4-5 years. Demotion without opportunity for promotion for 10 years will hurt them more.
Anything where they remain in the premier league will mean the current squad stays together. 10 years in the championship will see all the current players want to leave and impact them immediately.
Ste, nothing less than a five year exclusion from the PL. As Joe said, the punishment has to outweigh the crime in order to deter.
What annoys me is the media and the Neville’s alike say despite the alleged misdemeanours this is a great city team and deserve there trophies, but totally miss the point as in without breaking the rules if proven guilty then this wouldn’t have been the city team if they hadn’t and who knows what trophies if any they would of won. The rule breaking allowed them to build to the team we see now simple as. That first rule break would have been the catalyst no matter how small to where they are today. For me if they found guilty to any wrongdoing then the years 2008 to now are all tainted no matter what and the media should go all out on them.
İf they get away with breaking the rules then the effect is simple,
EVERYONE WİLL BREAK THE RULES,
Even if they are deducted 25 points and fined half a billion it will still be worth it given what they gained
Only way we ensure it never happens again
1). 30 points deducted from each season since 2008
2). Stripped of all trophies won since 2008
3). £300m fine and invested in grassroots and the football league
4). 3 year transfer ban
5). 35 points deduction for the next 3 years
6). Relegated to The Championship
I would think that they need to be relegated lower than the Championship, but I’m onboard with everything else.
The Premier League is a separate body to the FA. They can apply a large enough points deduction to ensure City are relegated, but they would need the FA's agreement to enforce an ongoing points deduction. And even if they expel City from the PL, it may require a change in the relationship between the PL and the FA to keep City out of the Prem for a few seasons.
Your only dreaming if you think a 30 point deduction for 15 seasons is gonna happen haha 450 points no chance and the case isn't going back as far as 2008
@@bluebirdtechnologygrouplim3304 you forget they've already been cleared of the charges from 2009 to 2013 by cas a truly Independant body
Jack Walker wasn't the only fella spending big on Blackburn, Sir Jim Hall was funding Newcastle Utd, to the tone of Millions
and a brand new Stadium, built with British Steel from his huge British Steel Company? Walker funding Blackburn, and it was never that way
with Man Utd or Liverpool, who spent their own earnings, and a huge % of those earnings too
savinho from Girona to City gets 0 flak... but if United bought Todibo from Nice… it would have been called fraud... double standards
Always better to know the facts first, before proving you do not know anything about something... A little like Howson... he has obviously read little to nothing about it from good sources! He obviously has not read the publicly available CAS documents... a start point for anyone wanting to talk on the charges... or in his case waffle about it!
With regards Savinho... just to help you! He was signed by Troyes and loaned to Girona... So it was never Savinho from Girona as you say... Always best to fact check, a little like Howson needs to do... before opening his mouth!
Saviniho was from french
United! United! United!
No point fining them - relegate them at least 2 divisions like Rangers & transfer embargo
Rangers dropped at least 4 leagues below. Citeh should be kicked out of the league down to the Conference, at the very least. Paying Mancini extra off the books is surely liable for tax evasion.
What makes me laugh as a man United fan is that FFP/PSR rules were abolished, we’d benefit.
We make a lot of money, the last few windows our spending has been restricted by these rules.
It makes me laugh when clubs like Everton think they’d be better off if clubs like Manchester United can do what they want
We only benefit if we were constantly splashing the cash tho ...which maybe in recent times may feel that way but not always the case.
They should lose every single accolade since 2008 when it started an be demoted 3-4 leagues. Thats the only acceptable punishment.
That wont happen, PL is separate from the domestic cup tourneys.
The cheek of city to moan about how long this has taken because they have obstructed all along the way
Surely out of 115 they must be at least iffy on at least 10 charges.
So that warrants a 10 point penalty to Everton
The fa have no choice in booting them out the league to the Conference League as it will end up in court with all the teams relegated who have lost millions
now the question is how many in the FA were also involved or turned a blind eye willingly, lets not forget the evidence came from a 3rd party, FA were pretty fine carrying on
Money Talks .. Follow the Money and find the Corruption ...
1) Deduct points from each season to (enough to take them to second)
2) Fine them and give the money to teams that were relegated in those seasons
3) Transfer Ban for 2 seasons.
All of the above will tarnish the legacy they built, repay other clubs who may have lost out and punish them for the doping that put them so far ahead.
Imagine you're the City owners, the shiekhs. They run their country... They make the rules, they break the rules, they can do literally whatever they want. These are people who are not used to being told no, being forced to comply with the bureaucracy of a British institution. Imagine how much they must be losing their melon over an organisation that's trying to hold them accountable and give them concequences for their actions, for what is probably the first time in their life, and there's nothing much they can do to snake their way out of it. Oh to be a fly on the wall in their meetings....
dont think they are losing their melons, they are also applying pressure on the UK govt and hire the most expensive lawyers around. people who would twist and turn to find loopholes in an iron wall. this case could be dragged for a decade more with no clear resolution
well, the "institution" created the monster in the first place...
I pay TH-cam premium so I don't get adds, it's a piss take that creators are just sticking more in.
My love for football will probably take a big hit if nowt happens to them.
If City win the whole football landscape will change. If you want an NFL style European or World League with only a few teams owned by billionaires and run for billionaires pray for a City victory. 200 points and a fine. They get relegated, come back and get relegated again.
Nothing like a bit of corruption to bring 19 teams together lol 😂😂
As someone who lived in America for a long time I saw what uneven finances did to baseball, where 20 teams were out of it from day one because of the financial power of the remaining clubs. Granted no fair play rules, but markets made champions. Meanwhile the NFL had revenue sharing and it made for the most parity of any of the sports I watched there. We will never see revenue sharing in the EPL or a salary cap (hey, that's impossible in a global sport), but the rules that allow for such inequality ruin your sport. And when even the meager rules you have a team just ignores...there aren't sanctions enough, but stripped titles, relegation one level and heavy fines to payback relegated clubs is at least a start.
the proper owner test surely precludes the City owners from continueing to be involved in city fc
this was great. couldn't agree more with EVERY point.
Put asterisk next to win, leagues, cups and relegation to the fifth tier. Ffp is good but must be more transparent.
Can't see them getting away with any of it
Football will never be the same again if they win
Ban them and their owners from participating in sport for.... I don't know......115 years
Nothing will happen. City will throw 30 of their best lawyers vs 5 of the FA at the court of arbitration.
In the end it will get dragged on, there will be a settlement and a slap fine.
It cant go to the court of arbitration of sport this time
Unfortunately I'm 80-90% sure they'll end up getting away with it
Brilliant show mate, absolutely love the content. Thanks
1) £250m fine, invested into grassroots football in poor areas.
2) Removed from the football league for one season.
3) 5 year transfer ban.
that too lenient
Because they beat your system?
@theletsplayer4921 it's not my system, it's the one they signed up for. And I'd you cheat and then get caught and punished, I don't think that's beating anything.
Guilty or not - as a footballer myself I say that the City players won trophies for the club through blood , sweat , tears & passion . Because they love the game they play & how it's played . Not because of those pieces of paper you call money .
I'm a United fan but it's been a pleasure watching them achieve what they have . What goes on with finances in football shouldn't bother any of the fans . But I also won't mind if they fall because that's one less club to compete against for us 😂
If Man City win the case, English football is officially dead to me. I'll probably watch less and less
I've already been watching serie a. Quite like it. I'm less aware of the agendas than I am with the pl.
In my opinion, going by the lack of bottle the PL has, they will find a way of referring this and postponing their decisions and verdict..THEY WILL KICK IT DOWN THE ROAD and hope someone else will sort it out..maybe the courts
there was talk of around 100 point deduction on the Paddock, and the sanctions could only be on the premier league, i say expulsion from the premier league for 4 seasons, let them rot in the championship with no progression to the premier league, this in turn will deny them access to european football. its time to make an example of teams who break the rules
Saw the other day when you was on paddock someone said just lance Armstrong it. That does seem right but in cycling they were all at it. Here the runners up havent done anything wrong
Ste, you’re looking really well, nice work! I am 103lbs down as of this morning and being able to go hiking without tremendous pain is pretty great. Keep up the good work!
Fuckin ell! Well played
Why is there not a peep on this case. But if it's united theyd know where the adjustictors have their coffee and what's for tea😅
No real soccer fan respects the titles Man City has won. Everyone knows it's all driven by foul money. There is no Respect for the Team and what they acived, none. With such a strong financial advantage, it’s easy to speculate that the club might be pushing the boundaries of what money can achieve, in a negative way, just watch the CL macht yday vs Inter, it´s like dead, no athmosphere it´s just a plastic club with no emotions. OFC any ManCity Fan(antic) who is only there for winning , and this is his live and he identifeis with winning, you cant reason with him, he wont lose like he does in his live each day ^.^
Great opinion piece to be honest , I think they’ll hit them with a 30-40 point deduction which would relegate most teams but not city , then they can sit on the fence and watch both sides claim a victory, I believe they should be relegated,I also think they’re still at it ,
It's Russian-level state-sponsored financial doping
Relegate them down a level for every year in question... Paddock might even end up playing them then Ste 😂
They should receive a similar punishment to Rangers. Ie. Relegation. Fines wouldn’t put a dent in them. So maybe strip some titles?
Wow that’s a heck of a summary Ste. There’s a lot to think about after what you have said. I’d like to add some comments but in reality I will think about this for a while. Thanks mate but it is scary stuff regarding our game
Aguero moment was, but if they didn't cooked books, that moment couldn't be happen.
are you talking about when Qpr fans were cheering City scoring against there own team . And QPR just stood around to let them score ... Yea not corrupt at all
@@aumarov have you always been this gullible
@@deltadaz makes me laugh the fact that you can't except that city are a great side always trying to devalue their achievements because your team is an inadequet shallow pile of crap
@@deltadaz before investments from arabs, what was mc achievements?
@@paulbrickland9625 I don't get your point. Arabs invested huge to build team at mc. Their emails show that they made payments from third-parties to decrease expenses. If they didn't do that, would they be able to buy those players?
Juve got relegated because they influenced refree decisions, and that is directly related to on-field performances and results. I don't think City will be relegated. The punishment they get (I hope so), will not directly affect their on-field status. It will be a fine, transfer ban or some financial limitations. Stripping off titles is also not the solution, because they have already lived those moments uk. If the teams which have finished 2nd, like us, Pool, Arsenal, our fans feel that if their title is stripped off, then we would be declared champions, but how fair that would be for teams finishing 5th, who missed out on UCL!? So, logically that isn't possible.
A monetary fine for them or any big club is like neglecting a week's revenue. Even if they impose a transfer ban, they already have assembled a squad which needs no improvement (see their activity this season).
Their multi-club ownership model needs to be investigated. It seems like a money laundering technique, with the less powerful clubs in the model acting as those shell companies. Chelsea are doing this, after exploiting the amortization by giving 7-8 yr contracts.
Agreed on the stripping of title, it does not feel right bcoz even if 2nd place got the winners medal, how then it would justify other teams.
All titles stripped, 3 year transfer ban and relegation to league 2.
If City win, footballs dead. It hasn’t been a real sport for a long time anyway but if a country can buy a club and cheat then it’s over as a competition.
for the PL to gain any credibility here it would have to be 1} massive fine to the tune to cover all the repercussions of any lawsuits from relegated teams and loss of income, 2} the current owners would be barred from owning the club like chelsea and 3} another state cannot buy the club. 4} relegation to the national league. 5} transfer embargo for the same amount of years as the financial doping was done.
titles won would have to be stripped like you say the tour de france was though.
I agree with everything you said.
The future of football is at stake regardless of the outcome.
For the reasons you give, if found not guilty. It'll be a massive moment in European football.
But if they ARE found guilty, regardless of the punishment, there is the potential for further cases from clubs who have lost income due to City's "cheating".
Teams could even sue EPL for not sanctioning city sooner and allowing it to happen over a decade (which has enabled the city brand to grow...maybe...we think lol). It's billionaires investing their money into these clubs now, they won't accept the verdict if they don't get reparations so to speak 😂
That's the concern I've had all along, that this isn't just about Manchester City, it's about English football. What has happened to Italy in the last 20 years acts as the perfect example.
It’s a tough call on punishment, but there has to be some equivalency of points scaled to other clubs that have breached rules, Then you have to punish the obstruction on a scale to prevent the thought of it from occurring again. Then you have to address the overspend and the deception. You nailed it Ste, it’s a monumental decision, and the gravity to which other clubs were affected by the actions are also quite serious, how do they sort that.
It feels like football’s equivalent of the Lance Armstrong saga in cycling
Might be worth remembering that the gulf region is the UK’s 4th largest trading partner at £61 billion a year, with Gulf investments in the UK in recent years estimated at £140 billion.
London is often referred to as the ‘eighth emirate’.
Are we sure football will be allowed to wreck that sort of relationship? (the English Premier League turnover is a tiddling £6.1 billion in comparison)
I've heard people talking about 'team rosters' this season. Extra time is being dragged out to 15 minutes & VAR regularly takes 1 minute to make an obvious decision. We get crap stats for everything. Maybe I smoke too much but with the world cup coming in USA, I'm convinced the prem is being manipulated to make it more appealing to the main sports TV networks over there. Yanks love a 30 second advert. VAR gives them that. All yank sport goes off in the last 2 minutes of each half/period & how many games have we now seen decided in the 9th minute of extra time. Yank terms like roster rather than squad or line up & stats for welt like how many players have one massive toe ffs.
Steve, outstanding video!!! Yes, the future of not just English but European football is before us. Because we know that City isn't just a Premier club, but a global one with teams all over and they will exploit this even more in the future if this is allowed.
As to penalties. First, you strip them of any titles (and I'd expect all UK tourneys to do the same...CL...who knows what they'll do. But do not give title to 2nd place. Let it just sit vacated as a reminder of the blight on English football this type of cheating has created.
2) yes fines, which I hadn't thought of before as useful, but the fines should be paid to the 18th place squad that was relegated each year, as an admission that at least someone else got really hurt by their cheating.
3) Relegation for 25-26 season, but just to Championship. It would be fair to lower leagues since their financial power will remain.
English Football by mid 2000s had become a league without parity at the top, and in order to make it meaningful, you need to correct finances so more Leicesters win, not just one of 3 clubs each year. I find the Bundislegue so uninteresting for that reason.
Those are my thoughts.
Last last point. Great video one of the very best you have done with great points. And the bar is bigh mate
Punishment: short term, lose titles.
Long term, look at how much spend they lied about and for how long. If they hid half their spend for a decade, halve their PSR spend for the next decade. They can’t be allowed to just carry on with the advantage they built up.
Fold them
Painful or not there must be a heavy handed penalty. There should be a 50 point a year penalty for same length of time they are found to have cheated. If they cheated for 8 years they should be penalized for the next 8.
sorry to say it but the insane money that has been in football for a while has made it corrupt.. they'll get away with it.
Relegation to the 4th tier, with a 10 point deduction for every season they are charged for (so each season they play they start with -10 points) and a fine which doubles the amount they overspent, which is to be given it to all the teams which were relegated during this time
The 115 is very serious its tainted the prem as without city cooking the books they would never of rose up as quick as they did an prem titles would of been won by other clubs. Look at newcastle all the money in the world but they have to follow the rules so their hands are tied when spending money.
As you said point deductions of previous seasons leave the PL to blowback from relegated teams.
It needs to be a punishment moving forward. Multi year transfer ban, point deductions. I feel it has to be a combination of those two.
Anything historical causes problems from other teams, fines won’t work.
Dropping them down a league or two could be something. Especially if they have to be dropped whilst they challenge it. If they can stay in the PL whilst that happens it’s not worth it as it will just drag out for years.
The better model is simply to allow owners to fund the losses. That protects against the non sustainability of occurring losses whilst also allowing new owners to come in and fun proof of a smaller club
They will be found Guilty but It will be a shitty little fine they can pay with pocket change . Same as with UEFA
Ste it's simple. They are either banned permanently from competition or its curtains for the premier league.
Massive fine £200m, 300 point deduction staggered over 5 PL seasons, 100, 80, 60, 40 and 20. Which will keep them out of the title race for at least 6 years. But the most appropriate punishment would be forcing a change of ownership.
If Man City win the case we and other teams should cook the books
Can see this ending in a settlement for a massive points deduction and a fine.
FFP is to safeguard against what happened to clubs like Portsmouth, who had new owner after new owner plough money in as bonds, and when those owners jumped ship the club was left with debts that they couldn't service. If City's owners walked away, unlikely I know but Matthew Harding and Leicesters owners had unfortunate helicopter accidents. If the replacement owner didn't like football and refused to bankroll City, they would be in massive financial trouble because all their big sponsorship deals are over inflated state sponsorship deals that don't represent actual market value
We don't know what the outcome will be but if found guilty there has to be some kind of independent regulator so transparency is seen so all clubs can be spot checked at any given time so there is compliance from all. Punishment? Hard to say but I would spread the punishment over 5 years, points deduction every year for 5 seasons and 5 year ban from all European competitions but it's dependent on what charges they make stick
Ste, Melbourne storm in the Australian nrl got found guilty of something similar. Years of hiding player payments. They got their titles stripped and a record fine but never really slipped out of winning contention ever since then. If found guilty city really need their license or something removed so the owners are forced to sell.
as a utd fan, trophies stay to keep the record books straight. BUT for every rule they are proven to have broken they should get 3 point deduction. At the end of the season ALL leagues are laid out and they drop however many points the total charges end up at.
EXAMPLE: If they get 100 guilty charges, that's 300 points owed. If they win the league on 90 point, that means they drop to championship - still owing 210 point, which was won by a team with 96 points - meaning they drop to league 1, still owing 114 points (210 - 96 point accrued by the championship winner), and so on until they owe no more points and that is where they finish the 24/25 season - if that is league 2, fine; if that is Cheshire north prem, so be it.
Agreed to keep the trophies. Bcoz if not it will be real havoc. Also it all happened and exist, so it hard to ignore. Its not like a one season thing.
They should receive a ban from participating in football for a few years. It's the only way you can prevent them from thinking they got away with it. Strip them from titles and fine them for en estimate of what they made of their success. Anything like a demotion would just be a temporary setback for them.
Not something I want, but Something I believe will happen.
They will not be stripped off titles, let alone titles given to other teams. It starts the chain reaction of lawsuits.
They will be relegated on negative points and maybe have either a transfer ban for 3 years or a consecutive 3 year points deduction that will slow down their coming back.
And a meaningful fine to make them sell players. Something around a £100m
They will still probably go straight back up, but will be deprived of Europe for a number of years
Can't take the trophies off them, but they can issue a 30 point deduction for the next 10 seasons (or however long they have cheated for) to stop them from having a chance to win
They should be banned from all football competition for 5 years and stripped of all the trophies they won. Alternatively they should get relegated to division 2 and have to sell the club and have a lifetime ban from owning any English ever again
3 points for each breach would be fair with the points deductions to be over the span of the breaches 25-30 points for the next decade would a far bigger punishment than City being relegated and them coming straight back up in a season and be able to be back to business as usual in 12 months.
If City get off I'd back a superleague. Let everyone financially dope up to the eye balls and give us the best possible product. But I hope to god they don't and common sense prevails.
I hate the argument that the financial rules were brought in to protect the traditional big clubs as it totally ignores history. It was happening before Abramovich but after him we saw an influx of rich owners across the globe who splashed the cash but mainly on players who either didnt realise how much turning the clubs into superclubs cost or because they lacked any emotional connection got bored so just pissed off leaving clubs without the financial ability to cover this financial burder which put these clubs on the edge. This is what its there to protect which is why many areas of investment have no limits as this is investment in long term areas that show a long term commitment and even if the piss off leave the club with assets that help then financially rather than something like an inflated wage bill that weighs them down
They’re going to get off with a slap on the wrist. We all know how weak the English FA are. And we all know how rich and powerful City’s owners are. They’re going to lawyer the shit out of this case. This will drag on and on until they’re let off with a measly fine and points deduction. They will keep all their trophies and they will stay up in the league.