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The 'Protection' score has to take contemporary weapons into account. Helmets should inevitably improve over time, but are they improving in line with the actual weapons they'd have come up against?
My Favourite would be the Sallet - Nameley the English Coventry Sallet. Really nice fit, not too Heavy and you can add a good Face Protection only slight behind the "Pigface" Basinet. Neck and all is Protected as well and it has a very good Melee Protection as well as beeing also viable against Ranges Attacks as well with a proper Visor. Overall, I would go for a Brigandie or simple light Plate on Top of a Chainmail Set.
haha indeed we are... but unfortunately we didn't get the extremely pedantic version this time since all he did was to point out the MASSIVE errors this professor had due to lack of experience... he didn't get to correct any subtle minor details in it, since the errors were pretty bad from the start lol...
I love the fact that you said some accuse you of racism for saying a lot of Indian arms are cheap, go to any sea side resort and there are dozens of tourist shops selling cheap swords to hang on the wall made in India. Bought my first when on holiday in Bournemouth aged about 10 , loved it.
Reinvented? Naw they have been in continuous use since they were invented and still used today though not in a modernized military. S tier all the way.
@@JETWTF: After british Parlament Wars/ german Thirty Years War helmet use ended rather quick. With exeption of may be heavy cavallry and some mostly leather ones.
Nice vid! There is a small finnish youtube-channel called "Satunnaista sotilashistoriaa" (random military history). He has nice little video titled "Kypäriä kautta aikojen" (Helmets through the ages). Would love Metarons take on that.
Any form of technology can get "worse" over time, depending on your metric. Modern files for instance are case-hardened and crap compared to what I could get even twenty years ago. Helmets, to use this example, don't necessarily improve with the passage time, but they are adapted in response to the nature of warfare. Indeed, we've got a two century period where they fell out of use with European armies all together
I think he is ranking them by their context? So comparing them to other helmets used on their own time frames, nevertheless it’s just a fun silly video with bite sized tidbits of history and their use.
I feel like Matt embodies the problem with pure academics. He bases his opinion almost completely on his feelings and with no experience outside of a picture. Never worn, never tested, no context. Just empty opinion in a vacuum. I give Matt a D.
While I really wish Matt had somewhere said "Now, I've never worn or studied armor to any large degree", I'm glad he at least kept saying tjings like "I guess", "I'd imagine", and the like. Also I still count in his favor his defense of peasents last video. Personally, a Closed Helm is the type I think of when thinking knights; it's what was depicted in comics, Saturday morning cartoons, toys, coloring books, you name it when I was a kid. To the point of, other than a kettle helm, nearly nothing else seemed to be shown (least not associated with anyone called a "knight"). And always with a full body of armor.
I had a replica card sutton hoo helm in cut out and construct form from the british museum in the '70s, it was a little large for my head when finished, but it really didn't obstruct at all if worn with a woolly hat to get the holes to line up with my eyes. I made a lot of helms after that, mostly in papier mâché. great fun to make.
Comfort does start to matter when it's something you're going to be wearing all day every day while marching. Discomfort can turn into pain, and pain can lead to people not wearing it at all. A slightly off-topic example: in WW2, rear echelon American troops, specifically truck drivers for this example, were issued the M1 Carbine, rather than the M1 Garand. Not because the carbine was a better gun, or because either was more expensive, but because the Garand was a heavy gun. And truck drivers, no matter how much you yell at them not to, will set the heavy rifle down in the cab and leave it there when they step out. Then shit hits the fan, and they find themselves in a gunfight without a gun to hand. The carbine, however, was light enough to be convenient, and soldiers were much more likely to have it on their person at all times.
@@brandonwestfall3241 There's that but the bigger reason was that rear troops weren't expected to get a combat task where their performance will matter, they just needed something better than a pistol in case someone slips behind. However, with frontline troops comfort matters only up to the point where it won't reduce their effectiveness significantly, because at that point you're just choosing if they'll underperform because they aren't comfortable or because of inadequate gear.
@@brandonwestfall3241 It was so light and compact, it has been called the "in between" a rifle and pistol...And said to have at least 44 Magnum power at close ranges....Great compromise.
An easy way to visualize the visibility you get from a helmet is to use glasses - if you have them. The further away from your face you hold them, the less you can see through the lenses. If they're close to your face, you can see quite well, even through smaller lenses. If you're not used to wearing them, the frame around your eyes is quite noticeable, but as you grow accustomed to them you forget it's even there.
Helms- theeeeey're GREAT. This was very interesting to see. I just goes to show how much experiential data matters. And how much presumptions and assumptions can adjust ones positions
My compliments, Raffaello! You stayed relatively calm in the face of this humbug. For my part I just wanted to crumple up that carnival helmet of his in my hand. 😂😂😂
Nice video, brother. Even before I started researching (and occasionally buying cheap replicas of) Medieval and ancient armor - and general history - mainly for film projects, I was a stickler for accuracy. You’re actually the reason I switched over from butted to (the somewhat more expensive )riveted mail (which has a slightly different look to it- although for background characters I’ll probably just have to go with the more affordable option of spray-painted knitted fabric and foam replicas). So be as pedantic as you like!. Even though I know there’s always more that can be said about the topic, these little response videos are excellent educational springboards. One thing I was surprised neither of you brought up, however, was the battlefield practicality (or lack thereof) of wearing a helmet you can’t turn your head in, like the frog helm, which you mention wasn’t just for jousting in. Is this much of an issue in your experience, or did they have versions that are customized to that end?
I never wore one of these helmets, but I played American Football for 15 years. And therefore I have to contradict that nasal protection does not restrict the view. It is true that our brain hides the information and complete the field of vision again, but what is lost, is a not inconsiderable part of the three-dimensional vision. This is not necessarily apparent at first glance when you put on such a helmet and look around. However, if you try to catch a ball, for example, the restriction quickly becomes clear. For this reason, a helmet for the position of a receiver or running back, for example, will never have a nose guard ... but that of a lineman can.
I've got a similar conical helmet, you can see the nasal when you look either side, but it doesn't restrict your view much more than your nose does and when you've got it on for a while you barely notice it's there at all. When a helmet is properly made to period proportions and fits the user you don't really have a problem. Alot of people, including academics, often think the originals are much bigger than they actually are, as are many of the mass produced reproductions
Horned helmets might've had a similar use as bagpipes. That is most of the times not used in battle, but SOMETIMES as a moral boosting/intimidating act they might've been used?
I feel like it's worth discussing ventilation, since that's a topic I know a bit about, and it sounds like you don't know much more than the historian about it. The issue with ventilation of enclosed helmets is related to the square-cube law, which says that as an object gets larger, the volume increases faster than the surface area. This can be changed up by using more complex shapes, but in comparing the great helm to a pigface helm, it's applicable in a fairly direct sense. A large portion of the helmet is filled with a person's head, and the only part you really need to worry about is how much air is contained inside it while it's being worn. The volume of air in a pigface helm is several times larger than the amount of air in the great helm, but the surface area available for ventilation is barely any larger. This means that with the visor closed, a pigface helm will retain more heat, more moisture, and more stale air than a great helm. With a great helm, this is enough to be a little annoying, but not too bad, while the pigface helm will get stuffy and uncomfortable *FAST* - especially if you're doing anything strenuous like fighting with the visor down. The ventilation issues are worse in the pigface helm, not better as the historian suggested. Part of the reason the armet/closed helm is a better bascinet is that the shape of the visor section is more complex, which allows it to reduce the air volume compared with the older pigface design, while drastically increasing the surface area, and thus the available space for ventilation, and it achieves all that without compromising on the protective attributes of the design. I'd put a great helm at a 9, maybe an 8, for protection, with the pigface and closed helms at 10, but the comfort score on the closed helm should be higher than the other two. I'd put it at an 8, with the great helm being a 7, and I'd toss up on a 6 or 7 for the pigface. Even though it has the visor, in situations where you can't safely lift the visor, I'd much prefer the great helm over it. The frogmouth has an additional problem with ventilation, which is efficiency. It only has one hole, and it's not placed near the mouth, which is where you want it to be for efficient airflow. The placement, along with only having one hole to allow air to move, makes for a very inefficient setup, which is why it's really uncomfortable to wear for any length of time in a combat situation.
What I find weird in his ratings is "visibility". I would say it would be better to catch it under ergonomics. It's not just how a helmet limits your vision (with any visor down) but also if it covers your ears, muffles sound, makes orders hard to hear and even makes breathing hard. Wonder if this will come back later in the video...
Yes Metatron is absolutely correct. A helmet with a nose or full face guard doesn’t affect your vision or seeing around you. A good example is when i wear my executioner mask during historical reenactment. I have a historical accurate executioners mask that is made like the one in the Tower of London and i can comfortably wear it for a whole day or long periods of time if i had to or wanted to and i can see just fine when wearing it. I have absolutely no trouble seeing through the eye holes on the executioners mask i have because it is made in a historical accurate way and is made to be used as its intended purpose. I had all my executioners masks custom made to fit my head and face properly. I have several different types and all of them are made custom in a historical accurate way and are replicated from a real executioners mask that was used. So Metatron is right.
@@damiensurnameless4586 This idea is another reason to read the comments only after you're done watching. If I saw this beforehand, I'd see two Metatrons and that would be too much hair for one screen.
I wonder if the armoror who made that helm was the same guy that runs a channel I watch -That Works- . He did a really cool Mandalorian/medieval fusion style set of armor a couple years ago. It has a lot of Ukrainian symbols hidden in some of the decorative patterns and stuff. I like his work and sense of humor.
That Kettle hat reminds me of the German helmet in WWII. Maybe they took inspiration directly from it. As someone who is fascinated by history, and especially the history of warfare I must say it's a very interesting episode. I wouldn't rank any of these because I don't understand enough about it, but I still respect your opinion Metatron and his as well. I also like this guy he's great.
@@PeregrinTintenfish Interesting. So I was right in my line of thinking, just wrong about the inspiration behind it. No matter, I still thank you for the lesson. I am no helmets expert and it's always fun to learn something.
@@PeregrinTintenfish: There are good videos about german M16 helmet. Was created by an engineer working for the company, which produced spiked helmets of steel or tombac for german heavy cavallry and palace units, and a chirurgical doctor.
I think the mask would or would not impair peripheral vision depending on the distance to the wearer's face, if the mask is hanging on a helmet there might be gap big enough to impair vision, different to a mask that is a separate piece that you wear directly on your face, like the difference between ski mask/ balaclava to a fullface motorcycle helmet with all the padding motorcycle helmet has more gap thus impair more peripheral vision.
Great video Metatron, I always love how well composed and civil you are. How you appreciate what is said and give credit it's due while also being critical. I think watching you has helped me with my temperament when dealing with people. I grew up in an environment where if I tried to be critical it led to people being uncivil no matter how fair I would be, so causing me to reflexively getting more irritated even when I don't want to be in disagreements. I think your videos are some kind of therapy, I've noticed me improving in my life, thanks.
"These become very common and popular throughout the medieval period" Great! Soldiers wanted them, bought them, blacksmiths made them, knights demanded them! They were super common and popular. "Meh, B tier. Those stupid knuckle dragging medieval knights. What did they know?"
right, the spangen helmet ("Spangenhelm" in German) came from the sarmatians to Europe and was used by germanic tribes and the romans at the migration age and later.
There was another video that mentioned Henry VIII's horned helm was just as a comedy gag gift. That it's supposed to resemble the Kaiser, who gifted it to him, as a comedic gift. 'When you're the Kaiser/King, you can afford to make fun of yourself.'
There were some very late examples of visored barbutes (or at least helmets that could be roughly classified as such) that added that versatility and protection while also keeping the sleek aesthetic. And there are modern interpretations of the barbute that have visors (admittedly they're not truly historically accurate, but they look amazing).
Something I like is discussing equipment that allows choices on the battlefield in the middle ages. One of the things growing up was the perception of these battles was basically... a frenzy. A wild slashing milling mass of carnage. When the reality is... if you actually look closely at the equipment designed it was far more like our perceptions of modern combat. Things could go fast suddenly but there was so much slow, deliberate effort and changes in equipment. Raising your visor or switching weapons. Even thinking about how knights worked, they often had to withdraw to get more lances, almost like fighter wings attacking with bombs and then withdrawing to re-arm.
@Metatron i think the confusion in this video is that while he opens with what he would take into battle, somewhere along the way he just started ranking based on what he liked vs battle ability, dont know if the editor cut it out, the presenter just forgot, or it was never about battles but about personal taste from the beginning.
Surely the 'Protection' score HAS to take contemporary weapons into account. It seems obvious that helmets will continually improve, but are they improving in line with opposing weaponry?
Metatron! Enlarge your screen if you’re going to go on a tangent during pauses of the video! Hard to watch when you’re a little man in top right corner of my large tv! Lol
Metraton since you know a lot about medieval times, i would want to ask if you knew anything about how mental health worked in those times. if you could reccomend a book on the topic i would be glad. I study depression specifically and i'm trying to make a sumary of how it was portrayed across cultures and times.
I don't know much, if anything about armor, but seeing that several helmets have the slits for the eyes, I'm wondering if they didn't serve an additional purpose that I don't think I've heard before in commentary. Think about football players using paint under their eyes to reduce glare, or Inuit people who use snow goggles to avoid snow blindness. The "reduced" field of vision is helping the wearer to see better instead of having to squint.
You know what would be an interesting watch? That'd be if metatron invites the good professor on this video to come out and try some actual authentic armors and see if that helps reevaluates some misperceptions 😂
Best hour I’ve spent . Kept me company on the long train ride . By the way metatron I’m living in Japan now, and I’m curious if there are any particular museums or historical places you’ve enjoyed visiting . Thinking of doing a history-vacation this coming winter holidays
As a former modern grunt, in MY humble opinion, headbone protection must be a balance between protection and perception. Sight and hearing are key in a firefight, and that alone can lead to a loss of protection depending on how high speed you want the helmet to be. In general against weapon damage you're pretty limited unless you want a massive, heavy and restrictive piece of headgear. Modern helmets CAN deflect rifle rounds, but against heavy munitions you're pretty much cooked. It protects decently against pistol calibers and shrapnel, which really is what helmets were initially designed for at least in "modern" times. Myself as a Scout Sniper, I usually wore a boonie hat covered by my ghillie suit, since it was just me and my spotter, a helmet wasn't gonna save us one bit, lol. One thing I've learned over the decades is the more something protects you, the more uncomfortable it always seems to be. Soft body armor was the most comfortable I've ever worn, plate carriers with LBE were a pain, especially in desert conditions. I can only imagine how annoying medieval plate was in adverse conditions. Jason from Modern History TV had several videos about wearing plate, and it really gives a great portrayal of what it took to be armored up back then.
It seems like this gentleman from History Hit suffers from an idea that a lot of modern people have, and seems to think that if he can see a problem with something then people of the past would have been too stupid to recognize it and come up with a solution to it.
Not a big deal but I keep wondering where the "l" comes from in "spangenhelm" aside from the "helm" part. How close the faceplate is to the face makes a huge difference as well.
@@NicholasNappi be that as it may, the video shows the spelling of the helmet, and Matt never refers to Spanglehelm as an alternative name for Spangenhelm. So it appears as if Matt is unknowingly mispronouncing the name of the helmet rather than just referring to it by another name.
History hit really should invest in getting well made replicas to go along with these videos. The great helm pic he used had wider eye slits then the cheap replica, but he based all his views on the cheap one.
An additional point of criticism I'd have been interested in is mobility - specifically looking at the closed helm and frog mouth on the list, its shaped over the shoulders, meaning you'd have a hard time looking side to side. Most helmets don't have that issue, my understanding is that this was mostly the case for tournament helmets? Could be wrong, please someone correct me.
honestly the kettle helm be underrated asf you can see its not cumbersome it protects most of the important stuff except the face honestly if i was poor and walking around in an enemy kingdom that would be my pick even has a nifty visor functional and light is the way to go i seem to remember stories about heavily armored soldiers sometimes running into difficulties
What's also important to realise is the closer a hole or slit is close to your eyes, the more you can see through it. I've worned masks that had needle size holes for the eyes, still I could see decently well because these holes were very close to my eyes. Not to mention what it's like when the holes or slits are wider than needle size.
Whenever I watch stuff like this it reminds me of Agincourt. The French Knights tilted into the battlefield in heavy plate armor. Some of the finest of the time. As they were crossing the field into battle, to their ire, it was mostly soft mud. Many of them fell and got stuck, unable to move or fight. Archers arrows couldn't pierce these tanks, but as they sit there sinking in mud and unable to fight, the archers and light infantrymen simply walked up to the knights, and inserted their daggers into the visor slits. Dispatching their most feared opponents with ease. Just crazy to think about, or how bad it would suck thinking you were about to wreck your opponent, and then getting ended without being able to do a thing about it. All that training and expensive armor rendered useless because of field conditions.
It was an expensive bit of vengeance. Those nobles could have been ransomed for enough to fund the whole campaign. The story is quite good, and a lesson for the ages.
“When I wear the kettle hat I can breathe, and I love it.” “Well if you join a medieval full charge without this [crusader helm], it is a lot more likely you won’t breathe ever again.” Golden
I would guess when he said the kettle helm doesn't protect the neck/face(directly after saying it did) he meant to say something more along the lines of, "It doesn't offer direct covering/protection from a blow aimed towards the neck or face"
Why don't you Email this guy? He seems reasonable, you should do a Collab. Also You two could cover the guy reviewing Space Marine 2 armour as a medieval armour expert on GameSpot.
@michaelshelton5488 No, it's the same in the UK. I think he suffers from being intelligent and widely read, and learning many words from reading rather than hearing 😁.
@@ianboreham454 Yeah that makes sense. If you've only ever encountered a word in text and never heard it spoken, it wouldn't be obvious as to how to pronounce it. I was just guessing as to why he pronounces it that way.
For similar reasons I used to think ‘inventory’ was pronounced with the emphasis on the second syllable, like inVENtor (at least here in the US it’s the first one- not sure about British pronunciation, but I do notice occasional vowel or syllable differences ). I also watched enough British shows as a child to think Brits and Americans alike pronounced raspberries “rawzb’ries’”😂. I still prefer British pronunciation in that case tbh. Everyone was too polite to ‘correct’ me, possibly because they felt the same!
I can’t believe he rated the armet/close helm so low. That helmet is basically at the very height of protective helms in that period, only beaten out in terms of protection by the frog mouth.
This reminds me of when Skallgrim was asked to test a khopesh. The guy who made it said it probably was the best test ever done of a khopesh because the tester studied the use of swords instead of archeology.
This historian has pictures of all the helms he's talking about meanwhile Metatron over here pulling out the real deal every time lmfao It's so great to see who's got the actual practical knowledge here.
I would generally expect a rating like protection to be within its own time period. But in this case, it's probably taking several variables in to account, General cover of the head. How much metal there is. Face covering or not. But I'm not an expert, I'm just trying to maybe step in to the shoes of a ranker and maybe see some secondary details that might be considered in to a factor like "protection" as a ranked statistic.
I have a two part question about the frog mouth helmet, 1) was it (helmet) made during a time that they had ballistic weapons like arrows or crossbows? 2) if so ? how well did it defend against them? It seems like the eye slit would be a vulnerable place for plunging arrows.
1400’s for Froggy. The Persians and Egyptians were doing archery well. The Romans were doing it too. Henry V was struck in the face by an arrow at the Battle of Shrewsbury, but he had evidently lifted his visor.
It looks like the German Stahhelm, was at least in part inspired by the Kettle helm. I have both a WW1 Stahlhem and the type of Helmet worn by the Allies, and the Stahlhelm seemed to offer more protection.
I'm gonna say that pothole was actually probably pretty comfortable. I mean, as long as it's big enough to see it on your head example room inside for the line, or do be fit properly? And shouldn't be uncomfortable at all.I mean, it should very much fit like a modern sports helmet
Truly authentic of History Hit to bring on the visor-hating descendant of King Harold. "Oh I can't breathe in this thing" - Hic Haroldum catchum an Arrowum. - The Bayeux Tapestry
Metatron i love your channel and have been watching it for a long time there is one point of concern your editing quality has deteriorated signifyingly.
Personally my favorite medieal helmet, if we are talking strictly medieval, is the houndskull bascinet. But, if we are a bit more lax with the period, then the hussar lobster tail helmet.
When he got to the second helmet it seemed like he was leaving out all the bits that would have disintegrated by the time of discovery, like straps, linings and padding.
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Link to the video I'm reacting to
th-cam.com/video/1qUtihlkTrM/w-d-xo.html
You forgot the link to the Anglo-Saxon removal.
Sweet, helmets! Next, can you do the history of the humble hard hat, a la construction worker raiment style? 😆👌
The 'Protection' score has to take contemporary weapons into account.
Helmets should inevitably improve over time, but are they improving in line with the actual weapons they'd have come up against?
My Favourite would be the Sallet - Nameley the English Coventry Sallet.
Really nice fit, not too Heavy and you can add a good Face Protection only slight behind the "Pigface" Basinet.
Neck and all is Protected as well and it has a very good Melee Protection as well as beeing also viable against Ranges Attacks as well with a proper Visor.
Overall, I would go for a Brigandie or simple light Plate on Top of a Chainmail Set.
I would love to see you do a video about helmets that people actually wore, which we would think were fantasy
We are here for the extremely pedantic Metatron!
You got it!
Yay @@metatronyt
haha indeed we are... but unfortunately we didn't get the extremely pedantic version this time since all he did was to point out the MASSIVE errors this professor had due to lack of experience... he didn't get to correct any subtle minor details in it, since the errors were pretty bad from the start lol...
Seriously! If anybody's earned the right to be pedantic? it's this man (metatron) right here!
It's kind of odd how this historian thinks that perception hadn't been noticed or improved on. "My lord, I cannot see!" The people weren't dumb.
He just figures humans are like horses.
@@necromancer6405😂😂😂😂😂
What a strange and illogical ranking for helmets
I have absolutely no knowledge of helmets, but even I can see that this is ridiculous indeed!
I love the fact that you said some accuse you of racism for saying a lot of Indian arms are cheap,
go to any sea side resort and there are dozens of tourist shops selling cheap swords to hang on the wall made in India. Bought my first when on holiday in Bournemouth aged about 10 , loved it.
Sallet and Kettle hat both deserve S tier
They are so great at what they did they were re-invented for ww1
Reinvented? Naw they have been in continuous use since they were invented and still used today though not in a modernized military. S tier all the way.
@@JETWTF: After british Parlament Wars/ german Thirty Years War helmet use ended rather quick. With exeption of may be heavy cavallry and some mostly leather ones.
As soon as I saw the Sallet go to the D at the start of the video, I knew all I needed to about this guys opinion on armour. He is not Tobias Capwell.
He's too biased to cap well? Definitely shouldn't review helmets then!
(Sorry, I can never resist a bad pun...)
@@KenLieck lol
This was actually quite solidly necessary feedback and not mere Pedante's Inferno.
Please @metatronyt, make this a reality, Pedante's Inferno. Great name for a series of pedantic videos. Dowlphin, loved it mate
@@Pedro_Colicigno 😁
god yes, pedante's inferno, that should be the in all the titles for his pedantic video's
Bring on the T-shirts
Seconding this, we need these sort of reviews to be called Pedante's Inferno from now on.
I noticed he didn’t talk about the quality if steel or iron and how the materials might affect their protective value.
We love you being pedantic Metatron.
Metatron has spread his cheeks
@@johnhunterpPhD😮
Metatronius Pedanticus
His pencil holder was a better great helm than what he was given.
Nice vid!
There is a small finnish youtube-channel called "Satunnaista sotilashistoriaa" (random military history). He has nice little video titled "Kypäriä kautta aikojen" (Helmets through the ages). Would love Metarons take on that.
Up!!!
Pretending to be an expert is obvious when he clearly doesn’t understand the progression of helmet designs. How TF did helmets get worse over time?
As metatron said early on, he is an expert but not in helmets
Any form of technology can get "worse" over time, depending on your metric. Modern files for instance are case-hardened and crap compared to what I could get even twenty years ago.
Helmets, to use this example, don't necessarily improve with the passage time, but they are adapted in response to the nature of warfare. Indeed, we've got a two century period where they fell out of use with European armies all together
@@sigurdholbarki8268idk about you but I'd take a modern corradi file over an antique
I think he is ranking them by their context? So comparing them to other helmets used on their own time frames, nevertheless it’s just a fun silly video with bite sized tidbits of history and their use.
Most technology has gotten worse over time due too mass production and doing it as cheap as possible
Guy tries on ONE helmet. Makes the rest up
I feel like Matt embodies the problem with pure academics. He bases his opinion almost completely on his feelings and with no experience outside of a picture. Never worn, never tested, no context. Just empty opinion in a vacuum. I give Matt a D.
Even so some basic research like knowing about liners is lacking.
While I really wish Matt had somewhere said "Now, I've never worn or studied armor to any large degree", I'm glad he at least kept saying tjings like "I guess", "I'd imagine", and the like. Also I still count in his favor his defense of peasents last video. Personally, a Closed Helm is the type I think of when thinking knights; it's what was depicted in comics, Saturday morning cartoons, toys, coloring books, you name it when I was a kid. To the point of, other than a kettle helm, nearly nothing else seemed to be shown (least not associated with anyone called a "knight"). And always with a full body of armor.
I had a replica card sutton hoo helm in cut out and construct form from the british museum in the '70s, it was a little large for my head when finished, but it really didn't obstruct at all if worn with a woolly hat to get the holes to line up with my eyes.
I made a lot of helms after that, mostly in papier mâché.
great fun to make.
Dude has never been punched in the face. Everything is about comfort with him. Totaly undervalues protection from pain, injury and death.
Comfort does start to matter when it's something you're going to be wearing all day every day while marching. Discomfort can turn into pain, and pain can lead to people not wearing it at all. A slightly off-topic example: in WW2, rear echelon American troops, specifically truck drivers for this example, were issued the M1 Carbine, rather than the M1 Garand. Not because the carbine was a better gun, or because either was more expensive, but because the Garand was a heavy gun. And truck drivers, no matter how much you yell at them not to, will set the heavy rifle down in the cab and leave it there when they step out. Then shit hits the fan, and they find themselves in a gunfight without a gun to hand. The carbine, however, was light enough to be convenient, and soldiers were much more likely to have it on their person at all times.
@@brandonwestfall3241 There's that but the bigger reason was that rear troops weren't expected to get a combat task where their performance will matter, they just needed something better than a pistol in case someone slips behind. However, with frontline troops comfort matters only up to the point where it won't reduce their effectiveness significantly, because at that point you're just choosing if they'll underperform because they aren't comfortable or because of inadequate gear.
@@brandonwestfall3241
It was so light and compact, it has been called the "in between" a rifle and pistol...And said to have at least 44 Magnum power at close ranges....Great compromise.
He is not surviving the next siege as a heavy infantry
You could’ve just said, “He focuses too much on comfort, not enough on protection,” but you really thought you could psychoanalyze why, lol.
An easy way to visualize the visibility you get from a helmet is to use glasses - if you have them.
The further away from your face you hold them, the less you can see through the lenses. If they're close to your face, you can see quite well, even through smaller lenses. If you're not used to wearing them, the frame around your eyes is quite noticeable, but as you grow accustomed to them you forget it's even there.
Helms- theeeeey're GREAT.
This was very interesting to see. I just goes to show how much experiential data matters.
And how much presumptions and assumptions can adjust ones positions
Love you, brother haha Thanks for another fun and informative video.
That helmet looked like it was hammered together using tins of baked beans
My compliments, Raffaello! You stayed relatively calm in the face of this humbug. For my part I just wanted to crumple up that carnival helmet of his in my hand. 😂😂😂
Nice video, brother. Even before I started researching (and occasionally buying cheap replicas of) Medieval and ancient armor - and general history - mainly for film projects, I was a stickler for accuracy. You’re actually the reason I switched over from butted to (the somewhat more expensive )riveted mail (which has a slightly different look to it- although for background characters I’ll probably just have to go with the more affordable option of spray-painted knitted fabric and foam replicas).
So be as pedantic as you like!. Even though I know there’s always more that can be said about the topic, these little response videos are excellent educational springboards.
One thing I was surprised neither of you brought up, however, was the battlefield practicality (or lack thereof) of wearing a helmet you can’t turn your head in, like the frog helm, which you mention wasn’t just for jousting in. Is this much of an issue in your experience, or did they have versions that are customized to that end?
I never wore one of these helmets, but I played American Football for 15 years. And therefore I have to contradict that nasal protection does not restrict the view. It is true that our brain hides the information and complete the field of vision again, but what is lost, is a not inconsiderable part of the three-dimensional vision. This is not necessarily apparent at first glance when you put on such a helmet and look around. However, if you try to catch a ball, for example, the restriction quickly becomes clear. For this reason, a helmet for the position of a receiver or running back, for example, will never have a nose guard ... but that of a lineman can.
That's a helmet for American Handegg, not a medieval helmet
I've got a similar conical helmet, you can see the nasal when you look either side, but it doesn't restrict your view much more than your nose does and when you've got it on for a while you barely notice it's there at all.
When a helmet is properly made to period proportions and fits the user you don't really have a problem. Alot of people, including academics, often think the originals are much bigger than they actually are, as are many of the mass produced reproductions
Horned helmets might've had a similar use as bagpipes. That is most of the times not used in battle, but SOMETIMES as a moral boosting/intimidating act they might've been used?
He rates the helmets like they're balanced rpg armor
I’d love to see you rate helmets, armor and such. You always give so much information and detailed description.
You should make a video like this ranking helmets, arms and armor in general in a tier list
That would be really fun to watch
Nonchalantly producing amazing helmets form under the desk while the ' expert' historian shuffles pictures😂😂
He's not an expert TBH. At best an enthusiast
I feel like it's worth discussing ventilation, since that's a topic I know a bit about, and it sounds like you don't know much more than the historian about it.
The issue with ventilation of enclosed helmets is related to the square-cube law, which says that as an object gets larger, the volume increases faster than the surface area. This can be changed up by using more complex shapes, but in comparing the great helm to a pigface helm, it's applicable in a fairly direct sense. A large portion of the helmet is filled with a person's head, and the only part you really need to worry about is how much air is contained inside it while it's being worn. The volume of air in a pigface helm is several times larger than the amount of air in the great helm, but the surface area available for ventilation is barely any larger.
This means that with the visor closed, a pigface helm will retain more heat, more moisture, and more stale air than a great helm. With a great helm, this is enough to be a little annoying, but not too bad, while the pigface helm will get stuffy and uncomfortable *FAST* - especially if you're doing anything strenuous like fighting with the visor down. The ventilation issues are worse in the pigface helm, not better as the historian suggested.
Part of the reason the armet/closed helm is a better bascinet is that the shape of the visor section is more complex, which allows it to reduce the air volume compared with the older pigface design, while drastically increasing the surface area, and thus the available space for ventilation, and it achieves all that without compromising on the protective attributes of the design. I'd put a great helm at a 9, maybe an 8, for protection, with the pigface and closed helms at 10, but the comfort score on the closed helm should be higher than the other two. I'd put it at an 8, with the great helm being a 7, and I'd toss up on a 6 or 7 for the pigface. Even though it has the visor, in situations where you can't safely lift the visor, I'd much prefer the great helm over it.
The frogmouth has an additional problem with ventilation, which is efficiency. It only has one hole, and it's not placed near the mouth, which is where you want it to be for efficient airflow. The placement, along with only having one hole to allow air to move, makes for a very inefficient setup, which is why it's really uncomfortable to wear for any length of time in a combat situation.
I really enjoyed this episode, and love all your armor!
What I find weird in his ratings is "visibility". I would say it would be better to catch it under ergonomics. It's not just how a helmet limits your vision (with any visor down) but also if it covers your ears, muffles sound, makes orders hard to hear and even makes breathing hard. Wonder if this will come back later in the video...
Yes Metatron is absolutely correct. A helmet with a nose or full face guard doesn’t affect your vision or seeing around you. A good example is when i wear my executioner mask during historical reenactment. I have a historical accurate executioners mask that is made like the one in the Tower of London and i can comfortably wear it for a whole day or long periods of time if i had to or wanted to and i can see just fine when wearing it. I have absolutely no trouble seeing through the eye holes on the executioners mask i have because it is made in a historical accurate way and is made to be used as its intended purpose. I had all my executioners masks custom made to fit my head and face properly. I have several different types and all of them are made custom in a historical accurate way and are replicated from a real executioners mask that was used. So Metatron is right.
Drinking game! Take a shot each time this guy says "executioner mask".
@@damiensurnameless4586 This idea is another reason to read the comments only after you're done watching. If I saw this beforehand, I'd see two Metatrons and that would be too much hair for one screen.
This is why the "Halos" in F1 Work fine
Can ya execute me
No helmet will protect you from an attack from the rear.
I wonder if the armoror who made that helm was the same guy that runs a channel I watch -That Works- .
He did a really cool Mandalorian/medieval fusion style set of armor a couple years ago. It has a lot of Ukrainian symbols hidden in some of the decorative patterns and stuff.
I like his work and sense of humor.
That Kettle hat reminds me of the German helmet in WWII. Maybe they took inspiration directly from it. As someone who is fascinated by history, and especially the history of warfare I must say it's a very interesting episode. I wouldn't rank any of these because I don't understand enough about it, but I still respect your opinion Metatron and his as well. I also like this guy he's great.
One version of the Kettle hat looks very similar to the WWI/WWII British helmet-or vice versa, I guess.
@@andrewp8284 Yes. I wouldn't be surprised if few nations did take inspiration from that helmet it's cool.
When they decided to bring back helmets, they studied medieval helmets. I think the Germans made a version of a sallet as a prototype.
@@PeregrinTintenfish Interesting. So I was right in my line of thinking, just wrong about the inspiration behind it. No matter, I still thank you for the lesson. I am no helmets expert and it's always fun to learn something.
@@PeregrinTintenfish: There are good videos about german M16 helmet. Was created by an engineer working for the company, which produced spiked helmets of steel or tombac for german heavy cavallry and palace units, and a chirurgical doctor.
IT IS OKAY TO BE ANGLO SAXON
Anglo Saxon doesn't exist. Never did
Not for long😈
No it's not.
Original commenter doesn't understand history. And apparently likes blowing dog whistles
It's really not. Because it doesn't exist
12:42 the thing is that you assume that the face plate is flush against the face. The further it is from the face the more it will obstruct vision.
You assume the people who created and wore them didn't notice that
I think the mask would or would not impair peripheral vision depending on the distance to the wearer's face, if the mask is hanging on a helmet there might be gap big enough to impair vision, different to a mask that is a separate piece that you wear directly on your face, like the difference between ski mask/ balaclava to a fullface motorcycle helmet with all the padding motorcycle helmet has more gap thus impair more peripheral vision.
I like his pen holder.
As a member of the Sallet Defender Order, I'm outraged
I love how proud you are to show your helmets, and you should, they are gorgeous replicas.
Now we need a Metatron tier list!
Just finished the whole video, Really enjoyed your insight. And 100% HISTORY HIT PLEASE feature Metatron
Great video Metatron, I always love how well composed and civil you are. How you appreciate what is said and give credit it's due while also being critical. I think watching you has helped me with my temperament when dealing with people. I grew up in an environment where if I tried to be critical it led to people being uncivil no matter how fair I would be, so causing me to reflexively getting more irritated even when I don't want to be in disagreements. I think your videos are some kind of therapy, I've noticed me improving in my life, thanks.
"These become very common and popular throughout the medieval period"
Great! Soldiers wanted them, bought them, blacksmiths made them, knights demanded them! They were super common and popular.
"Meh, B tier. Those stupid knuckle dragging medieval knights. What did they know?"
This proves there is a vast difference between seeing something on paper vs seeing the real thing.
Did you need proof of that?
05:55
Isn't the spangle helmet also from late antiquity? Didn't the Romans of the 4th, 5th century already use it?
right, the spangen helmet ("Spangenhelm" in German) came from the sarmatians to Europe and was used by germanic tribes and the romans at the migration age and later.
There was another video that mentioned Henry VIII's horned helm was just as a comedy gag gift. That it's supposed to resemble the Kaiser, who gifted it to him, as a comedic gift. 'When you're the Kaiser/King, you can afford to make fun of yourself.'
History Hit and Miss
Not with this guy. Try again little buddy
Which one? Metatron or this "Expert" @@soulknife20
@@soulknife20 you don’t know what “hit and miss” means do you?
There were some very late examples of visored barbutes (or at least helmets that could be roughly classified as such) that added that versatility and protection while also keeping the sleek aesthetic. And there are modern interpretations of the barbute that have visors (admittedly they're not truly historically accurate, but they look amazing).
Something I like is discussing equipment that allows choices on the battlefield in the middle ages. One of the things growing up was the perception of these battles was basically... a frenzy. A wild slashing milling mass of carnage. When the reality is... if you actually look closely at the equipment designed it was far more like our perceptions of modern combat. Things could go fast suddenly but there was so much slow, deliberate effort and changes in equipment. Raising your visor or switching weapons. Even thinking about how knights worked, they often had to withdraw to get more lances, almost like fighter wings attacking with bombs and then withdrawing to re-arm.
@Metatron i think the confusion in this video is that while he opens with what he would take into battle, somewhere along the way he just started ranking based on what he liked vs battle ability, dont know if the editor cut it out, the presenter just forgot, or it was never about battles but about personal taste from the beginning.
Where does the Almighty beanie rank on this list?
20/10 for functionality, it hides baldness.
Great padding
Protection: 5/10
Visibility: 10/10
Comfort: 10/10
Definitively S-Tier
Surely the 'Protection' score HAS to take contemporary weapons into account.
It seems obvious that helmets will continually improve, but are they improving in line with opposing weaponry?
Didnt watch the original, but this video is fun and very informative!
Good ole "wait have no one thought to try it on? All this research and study just put it on ull see how it worked"
Metatron! Enlarge your screen if you’re going to go on a tangent during pauses of the video! Hard to watch when you’re a little man in top right corner of my large tv! Lol
Metraton since you know a lot about medieval times, i would want to ask if you knew anything about how mental health worked in those times. if you could reccomend a book on the topic i would be glad.
I study depression specifically and i'm trying to make a sumary of how it was portrayed across cultures and times.
My favorite has always been the Sallet, especially full visor and neck guard. It’s just so cool!
I don't know much, if anything about armor, but seeing that several helmets have the slits for the eyes, I'm wondering if they didn't serve an additional purpose that I don't think I've heard before in commentary. Think about football players using paint under their eyes to reduce glare, or Inuit people who use snow goggles to avoid snow blindness. The "reduced" field of vision is helping the wearer to see better instead of having to squint.
I’d love to see that collaboration!
what was the medieval massproduce armor, for example for city watch in universal size?
You know what would be an interesting watch? That'd be if metatron invites the good professor on this video to come out and try some actual authentic armors and see if that helps reevaluates some misperceptions 😂
Best hour I’ve spent . Kept me company on the long train ride .
By the way metatron I’m living in Japan now, and I’m curious if there are any particular museums or historical places you’ve enjoyed visiting . Thinking of doing a history-vacation this coming winter holidays
As a former modern grunt, in MY humble opinion, headbone protection must be a balance between protection and perception. Sight and hearing are key in a firefight, and that alone can lead to a loss of protection depending on how high speed you want the helmet to be. In general against weapon damage you're pretty limited unless you want a massive, heavy and restrictive piece of headgear. Modern helmets CAN deflect rifle rounds, but against heavy munitions you're pretty much cooked. It protects decently against pistol calibers and shrapnel, which really is what helmets were initially designed for at least in "modern" times. Myself as a Scout Sniper, I usually wore a boonie hat covered by my ghillie suit, since it was just me and my spotter, a helmet wasn't gonna save us one bit, lol.
One thing I've learned over the decades is the more something protects you, the more uncomfortable it always seems to be. Soft body armor was the most comfortable I've ever worn, plate carriers with LBE were a pain, especially in desert conditions. I can only imagine how annoying medieval plate was in adverse conditions. Jason from Modern History TV had several videos about wearing plate, and it really gives a great portrayal of what it took to be armored up back then.
It seems like this gentleman from History Hit suffers from an idea that a lot of modern people have, and seems to think that if he can see a problem with something then people of the past would have been too stupid to recognize it and come up with a solution to it.
For battle a sallet every time. Its a no brainer!
Same here I love the sallet helm. Definitely one of my favorite helms of all time.
Isn't the idea to preserve your brains? 😂
@@sweetiespoon5150 Well I’m pleased one person saw my cheeky entendre. I actually own a sallet and it’s a very solid helmet and definitely S tier!
@@andrewthorpe2539 I love me a great double entendre. My sallet's off to you!
Not a big deal but I keep wondering where the "l" comes from in "spangenhelm" aside from the "helm" part. How close the faceplate is to the face makes a huge difference as well.
Spanglehelm?!?! He can't even get the bloody name right!
Then what is the proper name
I agree i do reenactment and I am having quite a few face palm moments watching. I agree with Metatron
But spangle helm is a name for it. There is other helms that look similar but are different and have different names.
@@NicholasNappi be that as it may, the video shows the spelling of the helmet, and Matt never refers to Spanglehelm as an alternative name for Spangenhelm. So it appears as if Matt is unknowingly mispronouncing the name of the helmet rather than just referring to it by another name.
@@soulknife20What is written there, Muppet
History hit really should invest in getting well made replicas to go along with these videos. The great helm pic he used had wider eye slits then the cheap replica, but he based all his views on the cheap one.
An additional point of criticism I'd have been interested in is mobility - specifically looking at the closed helm and frog mouth on the list, its shaped over the shoulders, meaning you'd have a hard time looking side to side. Most helmets don't have that issue, my understanding is that this was mostly the case for tournament helmets? Could be wrong, please someone correct me.
honestly the kettle helm be underrated asf you can see its not cumbersome it protects most of the important stuff except the face honestly if i was poor and walking around in an enemy kingdom that would be my pick even has a nifty visor functional and light is the way to go i seem to remember stories about heavily armored soldiers sometimes running into difficulties
What's also important to realise is the closer a hole or slit is close to your eyes, the more you can see through it. I've worned masks that had needle size holes for the eyes, still I could see decently well because these holes were very close to my eyes. Not to mention what it's like when the holes or slits are wider than needle size.
Whenever I watch stuff like this it reminds me of Agincourt. The French Knights tilted into the battlefield in heavy plate armor. Some of the finest of the time. As they were crossing the field into battle, to their ire, it was mostly soft mud. Many of them fell and got stuck, unable to move or fight. Archers arrows couldn't pierce these tanks, but as they sit there sinking in mud and unable to fight, the archers and light infantrymen simply walked up to the knights, and inserted their daggers into the visor slits. Dispatching their most feared opponents with ease. Just crazy to think about, or how bad it would suck thinking you were about to wreck your opponent, and then getting ended without being able to do a thing about it. All that training and expensive armor rendered useless because of field conditions.
It was an expensive bit of vengeance. Those nobles could have been ransomed for enough to fund the whole campaign. The story is quite good, and a lesson for the ages.
Very good commentary. I enjoy your work sir.
“When I wear the kettle hat I can breathe, and I love it.”
“Well if you join a medieval full charge without this [crusader helm], it is a lot more likely you won’t breathe ever again.”
Golden
I would guess when he said the kettle helm doesn't protect the neck/face(directly after saying it did) he meant to say something more along the lines of, "It doesn't offer direct covering/protection from a blow aimed towards the neck or face"
Every time i see that frog mouth helmet i expect there to be a little foot peddle on the chest, for a hands free disposal of waste 😅
Should it be possible that you give the references of illustrations used to explain your points? Thanks a lot for your explanations
Why don't you Email this guy?
He seems reasonable, you should do a Collab.
Also You two could cover the guy reviewing Space Marine 2 armour as a medieval armour expert on GameSpot.
I also only ever heard the frog-mouthed helmet was meant for tournaments only. The wikipedia article also says as much.
Pronunciation pedantry:
"Tapestry" is pronounced TAP-es-try, not TAPE-es-try.
Metatron learned English in the UK so that may account for his pronunciation of tapestry.
@michaelshelton5488 No, it's the same in the UK. I think he suffers from being intelligent and widely read, and learning many words from reading rather than hearing 😁.
@@ianboreham454 Yeah that makes sense. If you've only ever encountered a word in text and never heard it spoken, it wouldn't be obvious as to how to pronounce it. I was just guessing as to why he pronounces it that way.
For similar reasons I used to think ‘inventory’ was pronounced with the emphasis on the second syllable, like inVENtor (at least here in the US it’s the first one- not sure about British pronunciation, but I do notice occasional vowel or syllable differences ). I also watched enough British shows as a child to think Brits and Americans alike pronounced raspberries “rawzb’ries’”😂. I still prefer British pronunciation in that case tbh. Everyone was too polite to ‘correct’ me, possibly because they felt the same!
I can’t believe he rated the armet/close helm so low. That helmet is basically at the very height of protective helms in that period, only beaten out in terms of protection by the frog mouth.
This reminds me of when Skallgrim was asked to test a khopesh. The guy who made it said it probably was the best test ever done of a khopesh because the tester studied the use of swords instead of archeology.
This historian has pictures of all the helms he's talking about meanwhile Metatron over here pulling out the real deal every time lmfao It's so great to see who's got the actual practical knowledge here.
I love the frogmouths even in Souls games. soo good looking and intimidating!
I would generally expect a rating like protection to be within its own time period. But in this case, it's probably taking several variables in to account,
General cover of the head.
How much metal there is.
Face covering or not.
But I'm not an expert, I'm just trying to maybe step in to the shoes of a ranker and maybe see some secondary details that might be considered in to a factor like "protection" as a ranked statistic.
How terrifying is it that these huge metal helmets were even needed.
I have a two part question about the frog mouth helmet, 1) was it (helmet) made during a time that they had ballistic weapons like arrows or crossbows? 2) if so ? how well did it defend against them? It seems like the eye slit would be a vulnerable place for plunging arrows.
1400’s for Froggy. The Persians and Egyptians were doing archery well. The Romans were doing it too. Henry V was struck in the face by an arrow at the Battle of Shrewsbury, but he had evidently lifted his visor.
If a small metal strip in the middle of the vision slits was a problem, sunglasses would be designed with a single long lense!!!!!! 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Okley blades..
It looks like the German Stahhelm, was at least in part inspired by the Kettle helm. I have both a WW1 Stahlhem and the type of Helmet worn by the Allies, and the Stahlhelm seemed to offer more protection.
I'm gonna say that pothole was actually probably pretty comfortable. I mean, as long as it's big enough to see it on your head example room inside for the line, or do be fit properly? And shouldn't be uncomfortable at all.I mean, it should very much fit like a modern sports helmet
Would love to see Matt (in the reviewed video) on the channel and trying the helms. Maybe even give Jason Kingsley a call too.
Truly authentic of History Hit to bring on the visor-hating descendant of King Harold.
"Oh I can't breathe in this thing" - Hic Haroldum catchum an Arrowum. - The Bayeux Tapestry
He seems to be ranking them according to how much he likes them not by which are actually better.
Metatron i love your channel and have been watching it for a long time there is one point of concern your editing quality has deteriorated signifyingly.
Why does Matt keep saying spangle helm?
It's Spangenhelm.
Being german, noted this in an own comment.
Personally my favorite medieal helmet, if we are talking strictly medieval, is the houndskull bascinet. But, if we are a bit more lax with the period, then the hussar lobster tail helmet.
Compare this helmets neckprotection to neck protection of Imperial Germany heavy cavallry helmet.
You need to check ALL of Max Miller's cheesecake videos. He's made the real Roman cheesecakes from the records.
When he got to the second helmet it seemed like he was leaving out all the bits that would have disintegrated by the time of discovery, like straps, linings and padding.